Poly sequencer question

[LoboLives]

I've asked this a few times but can't seem to find an answer yet. With the Poly Sequencer, can you transpose the sequence on the fly without having to hold down a button like you have to with the P6 or OB6? Can you simply play the sequencer, hit the hold button and transpose away?

[Robot Heart]

Sequencer transpose is identical to the P6/OB-6.

[LoboLives]

Sequencer transpose is identical to the P6/OB-6.

Darn. Welp, there goes that. Sadly, it's a deal breaker for me.

[Soundquest]

I don't get this seemingly step backwards in sequencer ability.      Frankly, the lack of transpose on the fly caught me off guard with the OB6.  I too will not "REV 2 it" until such ability becomes in place.   But being I haven't seen a hint offered by DSI to fix that same complaint in the OB6 section of this forum, our wait may take some time. 

[LoboLives]

I don't get this seemingly step backwards in sequencer ability.      Frankly, the lack of transpose on the fly caught me off guard with the OB6.  I too will not "REV 2 it" until such ability becomes in place.   But being I haven't seen a hint offered by DSI to fix that same complaint in the OB6 section of this forum, our wait may take some time.

I thought for sure this would have been a simple OS update. Simply engage the sequencer with PLAY and then press the HOLD button so that it latches. I mean how can the Poly Sequencers for the Prophet 5 and 10 be more powerful than the one for a Prophet made now? The mind boggles.

[Robot Heart]

In terms of software, it is a simple update. In terms of functionality, it's changing the behavior of an existing feature to accommodate a personal preference. Using Hold while the sequencer is in playback is a feature that's received positive feedback from players and knob-tweakers alike. In other words, people like that feature. This feature is something that's been around since the beginning of the Prophet-6 poly sequencer and has been useful across three instruments now (5 if you count the Desktop Modules), so it's not something we're likely to replace with another function.

I'm not saying what you're asking for is not useful to others, but in terms of UI design we'd never replace an existing useful feature with completely different function after we've started shipping, because people are already accustomed to that workflow. If your feature request were to be added it would have to be in a non-destructive way that does not alter a pre-existing function.

Pressing and holding the Hold button for one second to activate "sequencer transpose", where the Hold button then starts flashing to indicate the mode you're in, where pressing the Hold button again exits "sequencer transpose" comes to mind. There are probably many other ways to implement it, but you get the idea.

[LoboLives]

In terms of software, it is a simple update. In terms of functionality, it's changing the behavior of an existing feature to accommodate a personal preference. Using Hold while the sequencer is in playback is a feature that's received positive feedback from players and knob-tweakers alike. In other words, people like that feature. This feature is something that's been around since the beginning of the Prophet-6 poly sequencer and has been useful across three instruments now (5 if you count the Desktop Modules), so it's not something we're likely to replace with another function.

I'm not saying what you're asking for is not useful to others, but in terms of UI design we'd never replace an existing useful feature with completely different function after we've started shipping, because people are already accustomed to that workflow. If your feature request were to be added it would have to be in a non-destructive way that does not alter a pre-existing function.

Pressing and holding the Hold button for one second to activate "sequencer transpose", where the Hold button then starts flashing to indicate the mode you're in, where pressing the Hold button again exits "sequencer transpose" comes to mind. There are probably many other ways to implement it, but you get the idea.

I like this idea of the Hold Button flashing. It would be great if it was on the next update please

[Soundquest]

I could live with that.   

[goodweather]

Can one of you explain me this sequencer transpose issue on the OB6 and Rev2?
On the Pro2 it is a simple as pressing a key on the keyboard...
Even on a poly synth, recording notes and chords in C then pressing for example D should shift all notes in the sequence by the same amount, no?
Just curious...

[Morgenspaziergang]

Yes can you explain this more for a novice like me? Ive an ob6 and waiting for the REV2 also.

[Robot Heart]

It's not an issue as much as it's a personal preference. The way the poly sequencer is setup on the P6/OB-6/Rev2 is when the sequencer is in playback the keyboard keys trigger notes so you can play along with and on top of the sequence. To transpose while the sequencer is in playback, you press and hold the Record button and then the keyboard keys will transpose the sequence.

We've gotten a lot of feedback that people love being able to play notes to accompany the sequence, but these two would like to trade that functionality for the ability to transpose the sequence without having to hold a button to do so. We would never take a feature away, though. We have added the request to the list, but since we're focused on wrapping up all the odds and ends to start final production it will be a while before we evaluate additional feature requests.

[double-u]

We've gotten a lot of feedback that people love being able to play notes to accompany the sequence, but these two would like to trade that functionality for the ability to transpose the sequence without having to hold a button to do so. We would never take a feature away, though. We have added the request to the list, but since we're focused on wrapping up all the odds and ends to start final production it will be a while before we evaluate additional feature requests.

I'm all for expanded functionality, but being able to play over sequences is one of the reasons I ordered the rev2; glad you guys have that design philosophy.

[goodweather]

It's not an issue as much as it's a personal preference. The way the poly sequencer is setup on the P6/OB-6/Rev2 is when the sequencer is in playback the keyboard keys trigger notes so you can play along with and on top of the sequence. To transpose while the sequencer is in playback, you press and hold the Record button and then the keyboard keys will transpose the sequence.

Thx for the explanation Robot Heart!
I don't have a P6/OB-6 or Rev2. Was just curious and while waiting for your response I guessed it was for playing the keyboard at same time as playing the sequence.
As the Rev2 is bitimbral, I suppose one can play a sequence with one timbre and play on the full keyboard with the other. Right? Then of course, it is good to have the option to transpose the sequence by a button or wheel or...

[Robot Heart]

Correct, since it is bitimbral there is one sequencer per layer. You can get some really fun poly rhythms going by using the poly sequencer on one layer and playing the keys, or using the arpeggiator or gated sequencer on the other layer. Between that and either linking or keeping the two layers separate for live editing there are lots of possibilities!

[LoboLives]

Yeah it was more just the ability to transpose the sequence without having to annoyingly hold something. Frees up the other hand for a lead. I like that I can play over top of the sequence but I would like the option for transposing on the fly without needing to hold down a button (I can achieve this on a number of other synths but none of them are polyphonic)  I'll wait for that gladly.

[goodweather]

Correct, since it is bitimbral there is one sequencer per layer. You can get some really fun poly rhythms going by using the poly sequencer on one layer and playing the keys, or using the arpeggiator or gated sequencer on the other layer. Between that and either linking or keeping the two layers separate for live editing there are lots of possibilities!

Nice!
Can you be a bit more precise about what you mean with polysequencer and gated sequencer (in comparison with the Pro2 and its 16 tracks whereof one is for notes)? Just a question of wording I guess...
I suppose it is meant: 1 track for notes in polyphony + 4 tracks for modulation of params. Those 5 tracks being available in each layer. Correct?

[Paul Dither]

Correct, since it is bitimbral there is one sequencer per layer. You can get some really fun poly rhythms going by using the poly sequencer on one layer and playing the keys, or using the arpeggiator or gated sequencer on the other layer. Between that and either linking or keeping the two layers separate for live editing there are lots of possibilities!

Nice!
Can you be a bit more precise about what you mean with polysequencer and gated sequencer (in comparison with the Pro2 and its 16 tracks whereof one is for notes)? Just a question of wording I guess...
I suppose it is meant: 1 track for notes in polyphony + 4 tracks for modulation of params. Those 5 tracks being available in each layer. Correct?

The poly sequencer is only for recording notes, i.e. melodies or chord sequences. You can input the values directly via the keyboard by just playing what you wanna hear in the end and by adding ties and rests where necessary. So in that sense the whole poly sequencer is slightly comparable to the first sequencer track of the Pro 2.

The gated sequencer operates like a modulation source with four tracks. You can also assign the tracks to the oscillators' frequencies, but not by playing the according notes on the keyboard. You'd have to enter the relative values step by step in the according gated sequencer menu. This is the way to go if you want a sequence to be transposed immediately btw, as the gated sequencer deals with relative note or rather frequency values, not the absolute ones you pressed on the keyboard. So instead of playing back an octave jump between C3 and C4 by default for example, the gated sequencer will only playback the information root note and one octave higher.
Apart from that, you'll be able to modulate pretty much every parameter with the gated sequencer, i.e. filter cutoff, envelope times, LFO speed, etc. With sequencer tracks 2 and 4 you will also be able to modulate the amount of slew for tracks 1 and 3 respectively.

To avoid one misunderstanding though: There won't be 5 sequencer tracks available for each layer. You have to choose which sequencer mode you'd like to use. The gated sequencer can't be run at the same time as the poly sequencer does and vice versa. You can, however, program both per layer and switch between them which makes for twice as many variations of the same layer.

[goodweather]

To avoid one misunderstanding though: There won't be 5 sequencer tracks available for each layer. You have to choose which sequencer mode you'd like to use. The gated sequencer can't be run at the same time as the poly sequencer does and vice versa. You can, however, program both per layer and switch between them which makes for twice as many variations of the same layer.

Is this a limitation due to that the synth is analog?
On the Pro2, my Korg Radias, the Modal 002, the RT Accelerator and probably several others you can run those kind of "motion sequencers" at the same time as a main "pitch sequencer".
Actually, this is great as it allows adding a lot of motion in the sound going through the sequence and even more when you are making the tracks on the motion sequencer having different lengths than the note sequencer track.

[Paul Dither]

Is this a limitation due to that the synth is analog?
On the Pro2, my Korg Radias, the Modal 002, the RT Accelerator and probably several others you can run those kind of "motion sequencers" at the same time as a main "pitch sequencer".
Actually, this is great as it allows adding a lot of motion in the sound going through the sequence and even more when you are making the tracks on the motion sequencer having different lengths than the note sequencer track.

No, it's not because of the synth being analog, as both types of sequencers are controlled digitally. So it's rather a design choice to make you select either the poly sequencer to which you can play along or the gated sequencer that can act as a motion sequencer and/or a pitch sequencer like you described it. I assume, this is mostly related to guarantee backwards compatibility with the Prophet '08 which only had the gated sequencer. In the gated sequencer mode, though, you have up to four tracks that can be assigned to any mod destination and be of different step lengths.

I can't speak for comparisons with the Korg Radias or the RT Accelerator, as I have no experience with both instruments. But it helps to think of the REV2's gated sequencer as a small version of the Pro 2 sequencer, the latter of which only happens to have its first track 'hardwired' to note values by default, which in turn doesn't make it less of a modulation source (as opposed to a sheer MIDI sequencer for example). The main difference between the REV2's and the Pro 2's sequencer lies in the REV2's gated sequencer being more limited in terms of maximum step length, track numbers, and instant controlability. In the terminology of Modal Electronics, it can be used as both animator and (note) sequencer. There is no option, however, for using both sequencer modes (poly and gated) simultaneously like you can utilize the animator and the sequencer on the 002 or the 008 respectively.

[calebnei]

I want the same functionality. Usually my other hand is on another instrument. DEFINITELY NEED TO BE ABLE TO TRANSPOSE SEQUENCES WITHOUT PUSHING TWO BUTTONS. So basic. And so necessary. Has this been added yet? I think I updated my synth lately...hopefully someone can just tell me the combination of buttons to press and I'm there!