The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Pro 2 effects

MDMA

Pro 2 effects
« on: April 09, 2017, 12:57:12 AM »
Hi everyone

I'm the proud owner of a shiny new Pro 2 and after a few days of using it, I'm hooked! Obviously I'm no where near trying to get my head around the possibilities and was looking for some tips.

I've managed to create some great sounds which are really gritty. The thing that I have found is that if I run it through my daw and use a chorus it fattens the sound up beautifully. Are there any tricks you guys use to get the delays to act as a chorus or are you using external effects?

I just wondered if people used the Pro 2 purely in the box, the lack of on board reverb and the like must force some external processing, so what do you guys do?

I know everyone is different and want different sounds, but with my other synths that have a multitude of on board effects I never need look elsewhere.
DSI Rev2, Moog sub 37, Roland JDXA, DSI Pro 2, Novation Ultranova, Access Virus TI, Roland Juno 106, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Korg KingKorg

NLB

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2017, 03:29:47 AM »
Everyone seems to drown their synths in Strymon these days - and why not, it sounds great!
I stay ITB with the Valhalla reverbs - Vintage -n particular -  and I'm happy.

IMO the Pro-2 needs external reverb to smooth-out the 'ringy-ness' of the filters, and it responds well.

Though lately I've been using Pro-2 through headphones only, so I've been following the tips given in the manuals - Delays section Pages 38-39.
For reverb, delay times of between 30-90, slowly modulated with the triangle LFO, will get you in the ballpark.
 
You can get decent results after some careful tweakage, and there's a lot to explore in 4 delays!
I've barely started my journey, but have nice results from using delay 1 as a mono delay (dotted 8th, my fav.), with delays 2&3 acting as hard-panned 'reverbs', and a slight amount of delay 4 with short time. Nothing cavernous, but nice enough.

For pad sounds you can get a nice sense of space by using two hard-panned delays using different delay times.

Still have to explore the chorus/flanging possibilities as the results are bit meh so far. But I'm sure I'll get there.

I haven't seen any convincing Pro-2 demos of the delays, but this one of the Prophet 12 - which also has 4 delay lines - suggests that the possibilities are good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQgqZIA0Glk

Would gratefully receive any tips and inspiration from other users.

MDMA

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2017, 03:52:24 AM »
Wow, great response thank you!
DSI Rev2, Moog sub 37, Roland JDXA, DSI Pro 2, Novation Ultranova, Access Virus TI, Roland Juno 106, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Korg KingKorg

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2017, 04:16:42 PM »
There are also some good effects recipes towards the end of our interview with Peter Dyer, here: https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/peter-dyer/

The interview was about his use of Prophet 12, but the tips carry over to the Pro 2, of course. Copied from the interview:

DELAY TRICKS

Chorus pedal: Turn one of the delay lines into an analogy chorus pedal. Set a delay’s, amount to 100, its delay time to 34, and lower the utility low-pass filter on the delay to 85. Use zero feedback. Now assign a free LFO to delay time, with a triangle wave at a slow frequency like 6, and set the LFO’s amount to 1-6, very small. If you need less chorus “mix,” turn down the amount. Tweak to taste.

Flanger: Same concept as the chorus. Delay amount at 127, feedback at 96, delay time at 20, and the delay’s utility low-pass filter to 85. Then modulate the delay time with a free-running triangle LFO with the frequency at 44 and amount at 2. If you want to change the rate of your flanger, change the LFO’s rate. If it’s too resonant, turn down the delay’s feedback.

Spring verb: In simple terms, a reverb is a network of a bunch of different delays. For a start, set the 4 delays with 4 different times – 76, 86, 91, 96. Set all 4 delay amounts to 34, and all 4 delay feedback amounts to 80. Set all 4 delay’s lowpass filters to 45. Set each delay’s pan differently. For example: 80, 45, 88, 50. This is a good place to start for a boxy guitar amp spring. Mess with different mix, low-pass filters, and feedback amounts for each. Or set an LFO to modulate the panning of all 4 delays to their other sides respectively, using the mod matrix.

String Machine: Our favorite string machines are one-oscillator types with an ensemble circuit that is a few delay taps. Start a basic patch using only Osc 1 set to sawtooth with the filter open and LFO 1 set to Osc 1 Freq. Set LFO 1’s frequency to 152, amount 3, and slew rate 40. Set all 4 delays to zero feedback, amount 127, and each delay’s utility low-pass to 115. Set each delay’s time to 17, 19, 21, and 23 respectively. Set LFO 2’s destination to Delay Time 1, frequency 80, amount 2. Set LFO 3 to Delay Time 2, frequency 90, amount 2. In a mod matrix slot, set LFO 2 to also send to Delay Time 3 with amount -2, and LFO 3 to also send to Delay Time 4 with amount -2. This is just one oscillator!“
SEQUENTIAL

MDMA

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2017, 12:53:30 AM »
These are exactly what I was looking for, can't wait to get home in a few days and try them out.

Thank you.
DSI Rev2, Moog sub 37, Roland JDXA, DSI Pro 2, Novation Ultranova, Access Virus TI, Roland Juno 106, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Korg KingKorg

lt773

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 04:04:51 PM »
If you want some modern effect boxes that have more of a vintage sound I'd recommend OTO Bim delay and Bam reverb. They sound great with all my DSI gear.

MDMA

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 11:42:57 PM »
So I had a bit of time to experiment with the useful suggestions last night and am blown away with what can be achieved. DSI really do understate the possibilities of having four delays and their possibilities.
I love the chorus, totally tweakable and sounds nice and wide.
Cant wait to get back to it.
DSI Rev2, Moog sub 37, Roland JDXA, DSI Pro 2, Novation Ultranova, Access Virus TI, Roland Juno 106, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Korg KingKorg

NLB

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2017, 01:20:16 AM »
So I had a bit of time to experiment with the useful suggestions last night and am blown away with what can be achieved. DSI really do understate the possibilities of having four delays and their possibilities.
I love the chorus, totally tweakable and sounds nice and wide.
Cant wait to get back to it.

It can sound very nice, but are you noticing any pops or crackles when using the delays? I seem to be getting a lot, and not having success in tweaking them out so far.




MDMA

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2017, 03:58:16 AM »
I can't say I have, what settings are you using? I'll see if I can recreate it.
DSI Rev2, Moog sub 37, Roland JDXA, DSI Pro 2, Novation Ultranova, Access Virus TI, Roland Juno 106, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Korg KingKorg

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2017, 12:31:59 AM »
So I had a bit of time to experiment with the useful suggestions last night and am blown away with what can be achieved. DSI really do understate the possibilities of having four delays and their possibilities.
I love the chorus, totally tweakable and sounds nice and wide.
Cant wait to get back to it.

It can sound very nice, but are you noticing any pops or crackles when using the delays? I seem to be getting a lot, and not having success in tweaking them out so far.

I've had good results from them but have also experienced crackles. If you turn the encoder reasonably quickly to progress through the patches, a lot of weird noises, crackles and so on happen spontaneously. Not sure if that's something to be addressed or just 'how it is'.

NLB

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2017, 12:41:08 AM »
I've had good results from them but have also experienced crackles. If you turn the encoder reasonably quickly to progress through the patches, a lot of weird noises, crackles and so on happen spontaneously. Not sure if that's something to be addressed or just 'how it is'.

Thanks for confirming!  8)

I spent some time looking into this last night. It doesn't always happen, but when it does it's very noticeable.

Initially I thought it was exaggerated envelope clicks (which I can tweak out), but the problem goes away when I set delay amounts to zero. The crackles sometime happen when I am turning only the delay amount knob. I'm using synced delay times (mainly dotted 8ths), not changing patches or playing too quickly.

Maybe I'm imagining things but I didn't notice this problem before the 1.3 update. I'll look into it more over the weekend, make some recordings of the crackles.

Happy Easter.

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2017, 05:41:05 AM »
Yes, please post a clip of the crackles you're hearing. I've gotten that too when using the delays, and I suspect it's just overloading the A/D converter going into the effects section. The Pro 2 can produce some big volume spikes, especially with the resonance turned up on Filter 1.

I rarely use the on-board delays, and I even have my Pro 2 running mono into my mixer. I have lots of outboard effects though, racks and pedals, so it's just easier for me to keep things on the FX Sends of my mixer. I'll only use the on-board delays if I want to use them for sound design purposes, not really like a traditional echo or chorus.

NLB

Re: Pro 2 effects
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2017, 10:09:44 AM »
I think I found the cause in my case, and it does seem to be envelope clicks after all.

I generally like to set Amp envelope amount to zero and give full velocity control. The sudden changes in amp envelope level caused by playing at different velocities seems to be the cause, and turning on the delay accentuates it. When I set amp level to 127 and velocity to zero the artifacts mostly go away.

Considering the single-amp architecture, I suppose this is to be expected. The filters can also be velocity controlled and this provides a smoother response.

Cheers