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Behringer BCR2000 & P12 Module

Behringer BCR2000 & P12 Module
« on: March 21, 2017, 06:47:42 PM »
Hi all, I have some info for people debating between the P12 Module and the keyboard version.  Over a year ago when I chose the P12 Module, I was concerned that I was giving up some knobs and buttons and would really miss them.  To make sure I had the real time knob-per-function thing covered, I started checking out stand alone midi controllers and chose the Behringer BCR2000.  For $150 this thing is incredible and has made my P12 Module really come alive for real time editing.

It took me about a month to really get the BCR2000 configured the way I want but it was well worth the effort.  I have it sending NRPN codes and have direct control over about 160 P12 parameters.  I should give the disclaimer that NRPN codes can be a real trip down the rabbit hole and require some deep research to really get a handle on it...but the results are amazing.  For example, the stock BCR2000 cannot be edited from the front panel to send 14 bit NRPN codes...however, there is a free software editor from Mountain Utilities (http://mountainutilities.eu/bc2000) with a forum all about controlling the BCR2000 that gets the job done.

So if you're looking for a way to greatly expand real time control of the P12 Module and don't mind getting your hands dirty with most and least significant bytes and 14 bit NRPN codes, this could be the ticket for you too  ;)

Here's a close up of my BCR2000...hopefully the labels are readable so you can get an idea of the parameters I'm using it to control...

« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 06:50:58 PM by WytchCrypt »
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Re: Behringer BCR2000 & P12 Module
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2017, 03:55:37 PM »
Forgot to mention...in case anyone goes this route with a BCR2000 I'd be happy to share my P12 configuration file so they can see how things work  ;)
Mutiny in Jonestown, Progressive Rock Since 1987:

Website: https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown
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Re: Behringer BCR2000 & P12 Module
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2017, 10:14:08 PM »
Great job!

I too have a BCR2000 (and a P12) but I should admit that it is collecting dust since I don't have enough time anymore to dig into such thing although I know the BC manager from Mountain utilities pretty well too.

Yes, I'm for sure interested about you BCR2000 configuration. (PM sent)

I have a question for you: Did you find a way for the BCR2000 to actually 'read' the values from the P12 or is it just sending one way to the P12???

I'm asking because if I remember correctly this is why I've stopped using the BCR2000, but this was with System exclusive message (for a Roland keyboard).

LA

Re: Behringer BCR2000 & P12 Module
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2017, 11:10:19 AM »
Great job!

I too have a BCR2000 (and a P12) but I should admit that it is collecting dust since I don't have enough time anymore to dig into such thing although I know the BC manager from Mountain utilities pretty well too.

Yes, I'm for sure interested about you BCR2000 configuration. (PM sent)

I have a question for you: Did you find a way for the BCR2000 to actually 'read' the values from the P12 or is it just sending one way to the P12???

I'm asking because if I remember correctly this is why I've stopped using the BCR2000, but this was with System exclusive message (for a Roland keyboard).

LA

Hey LA,

  thanks!  Got your PM and the config is on it's way.  As far as I can tell, the BCR2000 doesn't read the values from the P12 - for example switching a patch on the P12 doesn't change the LED positions on the BCR, but then again, I don't specifically remember trying to make that work.  What I've done is set default positions for all the BCR knobs and switches so I know where I'm at when I start - I think I set the defaults to the same parameter settings you get doing a Global Voice Init on the P12. 

If you figure out a way to make the BCR reset positions at each P12 patch change, maybe you could send me your configuration file!  That would be very cool  8)

Mutiny in Jonestown, Progressive Rock Since 1987:

Website: https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown
Bandcamp: https://mutinyinjonestown.bandcamp.com/

Re: Behringer BCR2000 & P12 Module
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 12:53:37 PM »
So I just posted to the Mountain Utilities BCR editor forum to see if Mark (The Creator :-) knows any way the BCR2000 can have it's knobs/buttons refreshed when the P12 changes patches.  Seems to me the first step would be getting the P12 to push sysex of the new patch on a change.  I'm not finding it in the manual but is there a way to automatically toggle on that behaviour?  Otherwise, I suppose a manual activation of the global "Dump Current Program" would be the first step.  Second step would be getting the BCR2000 to respond appropriately to that  ;) 
Mutiny in Jonestown, Progressive Rock Since 1987:

Website: https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown
Bandcamp: https://mutinyinjonestown.bandcamp.com/

Re: Behringer BCR2000 & P12 Module
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2017, 09:32:57 AM »
Following up on the possibility of a P12 patch change updating the parameter values on the BCR2000.  Heard back from Mark the author of the Mountain Utilities BCR2000 software and unfortunately, there is no way from SysEx to update the BCR2000 parameters, only NRPN.  Our P12 does have the global parameter "Dump Current Program" but it only dumps SysEx not NRPN so that's not an option.  The P12 does have the global "MIDI Param Send" option to transmit NRPN codes, but only when we move the physical knobs/controllers on our P12.  This in theory would update the BCR2000 value for the specific associated knob/controller, but defeats the purpose of even using the BCR2000's many knobs and buttons in the 1st place ;) 

Looks like the BCR2000/P12 link is effectively a one-way communication when it comes to updating complete patch parameters  :(
Mutiny in Jonestown, Progressive Rock Since 1987:

Website: https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown
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dslsynth

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Re: Behringer BCR2000 & P12 Module
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 10:25:30 AM »
Well it can be done. It just require a piece of software to obtain the current sound and send updates to the controller not to mention following program changes and parameter updates.

Have to say though that remembering where a large number of parameters are located on an unlabeled controller is a bit inconvenient. At least that was how it was when I tried it for myself on a slightly smaller voice. So I do get the new Q-link controllers with screens on the new MPC X.
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Re: Behringer BCR2000 & P12 Module
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 01:47:25 PM »
Well it can be done. It just require a piece of software to obtain the current sound and send updates to the controller not to mention following program changes and parameter updates.

Have to say though that remembering where a large number of parameters are located on an unlabeled controller is a bit inconvenient. At least that was how it was when I tried it for myself on a slightly smaller voice. So I do get the new Q-link controllers with screens on the new MPC X.

Makes total sense...though my code writing days are far behind me so it's not something I'd take on  ;)

As far as labeling a controller, deciding how to organize my BCR2000 was the really hard part, after that it was pretty easy to create the parameter labels as shown in my OP so I can keep everything straight  8)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 01:52:43 PM by WytchCrypt »
Mutiny in Jonestown, Progressive Rock Since 1987:

Website: https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown
Bandcamp: https://mutinyinjonestown.bandcamp.com/

dslsynth

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Re: Behringer BCR2000 & P12 Module
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 02:56:53 PM »
Makes total sense...though my code writing days are far behind me so it's not something I'd take on  ;)

Another challenge is that the Prophet 12 sysex format is not yet fully specified in the official documents. So it will take quite some work to obtain all of the information. And as said in my experience its not the best solution. While I am sure the knob experience rules my current impression is still that tablet apps got an edge here.
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