Lobo's synth state rant.

[LoboLives]

I just noticed a new video on Sonic State where they were talking about Behringer doing a ton clone reissues of the ARP 2600, Oberheim OBXa, Moog Model D, and another company doing Deckard's Dream which is a rackmounted CS-80 Reissue. Is it just me or does anyone else feel like we are going backwards? I honestly hate all these re-issues. We should be moving forward and expanding on things in the past not reissuing them. Much like how the Prophet 6 is an throwback to the Prophet 5 but adds new features and better stability. Things like the Alesis Andromeda and multi-timbral synths is where analog should be going. Not monophonic instruments with no features. I will be the first one to say limitations help creativity but we should be inspired by things from the past and improving on them. Everyone drools over a CS-80 but a CS-70 had a four track sequencer and was lighter in weight so let's expand on that. Dave Smith expanded the Prophet 5 design, Tom Oberheim expanded the Two Voice. The Prophet REV2 is a step in the right direction but honestly the Alesis Andromeda had more capabilities and power than an Oberheim OBXa, Prophet 5, Minimoog, Odyssey, we should be advancing in that direction and following that path. Moog should have had at least a four voice polyphonic Sub synth by now, Dave Smith should have tried a multitimbral synth by now, Korg should have done an upgraded ARP Quadra with memory or a totally new full size analog synth now. Come on, in 2017 we are fiddling around with monophonic synths costing $4000 and a synthesizer which came out years ago (Andromeda) is more powerful than something coming out in 2017? Ridiculous.

[DavidDever]

I just noticed a new video on Sonic State where they were talking about Behringer doing a ton clone reissues of the ARP 2600, Oberheim OBXa, Moog Model D, and another company doing Deckard's Dream which is a rackmounted CS-80 Reissue. Is it just me or does anyone else feel like we are going backwards? I honestly hate all these re-issues. We should be moving forward and expanding on things in the past not reissuing them. Much like how the Prophet 6 is an throwback to the Prophet 5 but adds new features and better stability. Things like the Alesis Andromeda and multi-timbral synths is where analog should be going. Not monophonic instruments with no features. I will be the first one to say limitations help creativity but we should be inspired by things from the past and improving on them. Everyone drools over a CS-80 but a CS-70 had a four track sequencer and was lighter in weight so let's expand on that. Dave Smith expanded the Prophet 5 design, Tom Oberheim expanded the Two Voice. The Prophet REV2 is a step in the right direction but honestly the Alesis Andromeda had more capabilities and power than an Oberheim OBXa, Prophet 5, Minimoog, Odyssey, we should be advancing in that direction and following that path. Moog should have had at least a four voice polyphonic Sub synth by now, Dave Smith should have tried a multitimbral synth by now, Korg should have done an upgraded ARP Quadra with memory or a totally new full size analog synth now. Come on, in 2017 we are fiddling around with monophonic synths costing $4000 and a synthesizer which came out years ago (Andromeda) is more powerful than something coming out in 2017? Ridiculous.

While I largely agree (the Tetra was multi-timbral, though), I think it reflects a change in perspective away from all-in-one-box ROMpler workstations (e.g., Korg Kronos and Yamaha Montage) toward simple, more immediate designs whose functionality is significantly (and intentionally) more limited.

The MatrixBrute strikes me as an interesting juncture of old-school architecture with new-school accessibility; likewise, the Modal range of synths is certainly interesting from a cloud perspective, while preserving knobbiness.

I'd love to see an upgraded 8-/12-/16-bit sampler with analogue filters, to be honest.

Also - I have to admit that I'm really pretty jazzed about the old-dog-new-tricks units: the Gligli-ed Prophet-600 is open-source software (on GitHub), easily installed by the user, and ultimately a fundamentally sane approach to adding new functionality to an older design.

[dslsynth]

Not to worry, LoboLives! I could have written that rant in a similar fashion except that it would have been in multiple sections for better readability.

As for the progress of synthesizer technology there is always the question of how much creation muscle are available, what the artistic goals are and what makes commercial sense. Quite often things are not happening in the most sensible and/or attractive way for all sorts of reason.

[LoboLives]

I just noticed a new video on Sonic State where they were talking about Behringer doing a ton clone reissues of the ARP 2600, Oberheim OBXa, Moog Model D, and another company doing Deckard's Dream which is a rackmounted CS-80 Reissue. Is it just me or does anyone else feel like we are going backwards? I honestly hate all these re-issues. We should be moving forward and expanding on things in the past not reissuing them. Much like how the Prophet 6 is an throwback to the Prophet 5 but adds new features and better stability. Things like the Alesis Andromeda and multi-timbral synths is where analog should be going. Not monophonic instruments with no features. I will be the first one to say limitations help creativity but we should be inspired by things from the past and improving on them. Everyone drools over a CS-80 but a CS-70 had a four track sequencer and was lighter in weight so let's expand on that. Dave Smith expanded the Prophet 5 design, Tom Oberheim expanded the Two Voice. The Prophet REV2 is a step in the right direction but honestly the Alesis Andromeda had more capabilities and power than an Oberheim OBXa, Prophet 5, Minimoog, Odyssey, we should be advancing in that direction and following that path. Moog should have had at least a four voice polyphonic Sub synth by now, Dave Smith should have tried a multitimbral synth by now, Korg should have done an upgraded ARP Quadra with memory or a totally new full size analog synth now. Come on, in 2017 we are fiddling around with monophonic synths costing $4000 and a synthesizer which came out years ago (Andromeda) is more powerful than something coming out in 2017? Ridiculous.

While I largely agree (the Tetra was multi-timbral, though), I think it reflects a change in perspective away from all-in-one-box ROMpler workstations (e.g., Korg Kronos and Yamaha Montage) toward simple, more immediate designs whose functionality is significantly (and intentionally) more limited.

The MatrixBrute strikes me as an interesting juncture of old-school architecture with new-school accessibility; likewise, the Modal range of synths is certainly interesting from a cloud perspective, while preserving knobbiness.

I'd love to see an upgraded 8-/12-/16-bit sampler with analogue filters, to be honest.

Also - I have to admit that I'm really pretty jazzed about the old-dog-new-tricks units: the Gligli-ed Prophet-600 is open-source software (on GitHub), easily installed by the user, and ultimately a fundamentally sane approach to adding new functionality to an older design.

Like I said, I'll be the first to admit that limitations help drive creativity but (like you said) with the Matrixbrute it's quite inspiring to combine old school architecture but with modern features. More companies should do this. I know everyone was drooling over Moog reissuing the Model D but I almost guarantee that if they were to release a 4 voice polyphonic Phatty, or somehow combine 4 Slim Phatty's under one hood. People would rush out in droves to purchase it. Personally, I could justify paying the price of a Moog Model D for something like that than over the Model D itself.

Korg is sort of stuck with the cheap, entry level synths although I do wish they would put a bit more interest and development in their ARP department (I still want my updated Quadra!)

As far as DSI/Sequential goes. The Rev2 is a step in the right direction although I still feel that they shouldn't ignore the firmware requests of their older gear. Not saying they do but for example I've requested a ton of times that the Sequencer on the Prophet 6 be updated so we could transpose it on the fly without having to hold down the Record button. I figure this should be an easy fix but not only wasn't it fixed in firmware it wasn't even change on the OB6 which had a similar type engine. Moreover, on the OB6 it would have been nice to differentiate it a bit more from the Prophet 6 and do something as simple as add the OBXa levers instead of the traditional mod/pitch wheels. Just to offer something fresh on the market.

But I agree a new Sampler/Rompler would be awesome. I still think DSI should do a pure VS/FM based synth with only analog filters and perhaps it should also include some samples from the Prophet 2000 that can be run through the filters as well, just to add some extra timbre. Hopefully they do it under the Sequential name which I HOPE doesn't go to waste as a one off for the Prophet 6.

I know I sound like a broken record on these forums but it's just frustrating to see that instruments from the past having more features than things coming out now.

[Soundquest]

 Lobo Lives, that was my favorite rant I've read in a while.  But don't you think P12 sort of approached that market?   

[LoboLives]

 Lobo Lives, that was my favorite rant I've read in a while.  But don't you think P12 sort of approached that market?

It also came out in 2013. It's a great first try but personally speaking for an analog/digital hybrid I'd prefer the idea of a JDXa where you can have acoustic sounds layered with analog tones and an on board sequencer.

Like I said though that was 2013 and it only recently had FM capabilities and no sampling....so it's time for something new. Prophet X is a name I dig mostly because for me it refers to crossing paths and mixing timbres. Imagine an evolving FM pad layered with a choir sound with a low VS drone underneath...mmmmm.

[Sacred Synthesis]

Although I am in favor of occasional re-issues, I wouldn't want too many of them.  One Moog and one ARP are enough.  So, I'm in general agreement with LoboLives.  I prefer new instruments that are truly new, or at least, that are substantial improvements over old ones.  The Prophet Rev2 is a good example. 

[LoboLives]

Although I am in favor of an occasional re-issue, I wouldn't want too many of them.  So, I'm in general agreement with LoboLives.  I prefer new instruments that are truly new, or at least, that are substantial improvements over old ones.  The Prophet Rev2 is a good example.

I even have my reservations about the Rev2 only being bi-timbral and if it can't do transposing poly sequences on the fly then I have no interest.

[Sacred Synthesis]

What about those of us who are dependent upon a particular instrument?  As we know, a ten year run is a long lifetime for an instrument in today's synthesizer market.  So, after ten years, must every instrument disappear, leaving those who use it to worry about service and parts?  After all, many of us don't want to own vintage instruments. 

The other option is exactly the one followed by DSI, and I think it's both a prudent and a just one; namely, to re-issue a recently retired instrument with long-requested improvements, making it essentially the same instrument but with substantial improvements. 

[DavidDever]

Moreover, on the OB6 it would have been nice to differentiate it a bit more from the Prophet 6 and do something as simple as add the OBXa levers instead of the traditional mod/pitch wheels.

I'm strongly contemplating 3D-printing a batch; I'm kinda surprised that the Two-Voice Pro lacks these....

[LoboLives]

What about those of us who are dependent upon a particular instrument?  As we know, a ten year run is a long lifetime for an instrument in today's synthesizer market.  So, after ten years, must every instrument disappear, leaving those who use it to worry about service and parts?  After all, many of us don't want to own vintage instruments. 

The other option is exactly the one followed by DSI, and I think it's both a prudent and a just one; namely, to re-issue a recently retired instrument with long-requested improvements, making it essentially the same instrument but with substantial improvements.

I mean that's the price you pay for anything be it a TV, a car or a synth. Just got to take care of the old girls.

[LoboLives]

Moreover, on the OB6 it would have been nice to differentiate it a bit more from the Prophet 6 and do something as simple as add the OBXa levers instead of the traditional mod/pitch wheels.

I'm strongly contemplating 3D-printing a batch; I'm kinda surprised that the Two-Voice Pro lacks these....

Same. I figured that would have been a no brainer. I don't even think there's a synth on the market that has these at all. Wish there was a way you could set up the P6 or OB6 so that the pitch wheel only affects one oscillator. New firmware update?

[BobTheDog]

What about those of us who are dependent upon a particular instrument?  As we know, a ten year run is a long lifetime for an instrument in today's synthesizer market.  So, after ten years, must every instrument disappear, leaving those who use it to worry about service and parts?  After all, many of us don't want to own vintage instruments. 

The other option is exactly the one followed by DSI, and I think it's both a prudent and a just one; namely, to re-issue a recently retired instrument with long-requested improvements, making it essentially the same instrument but with substantial improvements.

This is a worry I have with synths, my first guitar still works fine after 39 years and is a youngster amongst stringed instruments. I guess the piano we used to play at school is probably still going as well.

When I look at my Voyager and my Kronos I know that the Voyager is probably going to last longer, but there are still ICs in there and once those ICs go if there is no one making them it is dead.

My car is just coming up to its 10 year service, it is from a manufacture that boasts that over 70% of the cars it ever made are still on the road but it is still loaded up with computer technology and I just know that is what will kill it in the end.

I'm not sure that I want replacements (although that is probably the best way) I just want to stop time.

[Sacred Synthesis]

May I suggest a harpsichord?   

Some instruments don't pass away like kitchen appliances.  It's one huge mark against synthesizers - they're just too susceptible to trends and fashions.  Perhaps I won't be playing them for too long.  My mind often wonders onto the subject of less sensational musical instruments with much greater longevity - organ, harpsichord, piano, etc.

[DavidDever]

May I suggest a harpsichord?   

Some instruments don't pass away like kitchen appliances.  It's one huge mark against synthesizers - they're just too susceptible to trends and fashions.  Perhaps I won't be playing them for too long.  My mind often wonders onto the subject of less sensational musical instruments with much greater longevity - organ, harpsichord, piano, etc.

Unless you fancy yourself a builder, your spend would be significantly more for a 10 cm-pressure pipe organ–notwithstanding space considerations. Trust me, I've tried!

[Sacred Synthesis]

Considering that I live in an 800-square ft. ranch house, an in-house pipe organ would not be my first choice of instruments!

Actually, one reason I've so liked the Prophet '08 is that it offers some fine pipe organ-like sounds.  In fact, I originally tried the P'08 due to a failure in finding a portable organ that was satisfactory.  I just don't go for the drawbar sound.  The P'08 offered something much richer, so I stuck with it and built it up.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I'm thankful that DSI has rescued the Prophet '08 from extinction and resuscitated it in the form of the Rev2.  It would have been a sad thing to see it relegated to the vintage heap.   Some of us are not interested in the constantly revolving merry-go-round that is the modern synthesizer market and the resultant GAS, but prefer instead to maintain a steady state in our instrument set up.  The Rev2 offers the rare opportunity for us to do just that, and yet, to make a substantial upgrade.  Thank you DSI for not forgetting us!

[LoboLives]

I'm thankful that DSI has rescued the Prophet '08 from extinction and resuscitated it in the form of the Rev2.  It would have been a sad thing to see it relegated to the vintage heap.   Some of us are not interested in the constantly revolving merry-go-round that is the modern synthesizer market and the resultant GAS, but prefer instead to maintain a steady state in our instrument set up.  The Rev2 offers the rare opportunity for us to do just that, and yet, to make a substantial upgrade.  Thank you DSI for not forgetting us!

Now I wonder if we'll see the same treatment for the Evolver, 12, Pro 2 or P6? Like I said the Rev2 is a step in the right direction in that it's inspired by an older synth but improves on it...so could this be a new thing for DSI? I'm actually curious what they bring out next.

[chysn]

I've sort of softened on re-issues. I don't see any evidence that they cause stagnation in the industry. For true stagnation, you can look to the period starting in the late 1980s, when the Korg M1 was a supermassive black hole of ideas for maybe fifteen years. During this time, synths with knobs were revered by players, but not provided by manufacturers. It was baffling disconnect between what musicians (said they) wanted and what the industry made.

So maybe reissues are an over-atonement, or maybe they're purely market-driven. Either way, they're fine by me.

Reissues are fairly common in eurorack modular, too. Usually, they're not made by the original manufacturers, but are responses to patent expiration. Popular targets are Buchla modules, old Polivoks circuits, Moog, of course. I think these are reliably exciting to see, because you can decide where you want to be traditional and where you want to be innovative.

And ultimately, these instruments wind up in a modern context. Despite reissues, music isn't reverting slowly to the 1980s, to my minor chagrin.

[LoboLives]

I've sort of softened on re-issues. I don't see any evidence that they cause stagnation in the industry. For true stagnation, you can look to the period starting in the late 1980s, when the Korg M1 was a supermassive black hole of ideas for maybe fifteen years. During this time, synths with knobs were revered by players, but not provided by manufacturers. It was baffling disconnect between what musicians (said they) wanted and what the industry made.

So maybe reissues are an over-atonement, or maybe they're purely market-driven. Either way, they're fine by me.

Reissues are fairly common in eurorack modular, too. Usually, they're not made by the original manufacturers, but are responses to patent expiration. Popular targets are Buchla modules, old Polivoks circuits, Moog, of course. I think these are reliably exciting to see, because you can decide where you want to be traditional and where you want to be innovative.

And ultimately, these instruments wind up in a modern context. Despite reissues, music isn't reverting slowly to the 1980s, to my minor chagrin.

It's just mind boggling to me that a lot of older synths had more features than their modern counter parts. Not all...but like just little things that make me go "Wait...what? How is it possible that something from the 80s has more capabilities than something made in the 2000s?"