Next New Sequential Instrument

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1680 on: August 23, 2021, 01:01:58 PM »
There is a new Take 5 section, so let's move the discussion over there.

https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/board,45.0.html
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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1681 on: September 26, 2021, 10:34:18 AM »
I'm adjusting my prediction for the next Sequential product announcement.  Until recently, I was predicting it is an OB-X reissue (but that prediction was only due to the trademark registration by Sequential earlier this year).  I now have reason to believe it will be an OB-Xa.  I can't reveal exactly why the change in prediction without putting someone else on the spot, I will just say that if you follow enough people on Youtube, certain clues tend to reveal themselves like hidden gems.

It is also very possible that it is switchable between OBX/OBX-A modes, much like Rev 1/2 and 3 filters on the Rev4.

Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase

CCrow

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1682 on: September 26, 2021, 11:10:38 AM »
I'm adjusting my prediction for the next Sequential product announcement.  Until recently, I was predicting it is an OB-X reissue (but that prediction was only due to the trademark registration by Sequential earlier this year).  I now have reason to believe it will be an OB-Xa.  I can't reveal exactly why the change in prediction without putting someone else on the spot, I will just say that if you follow enough people on Youtube, certain clues tend to reveal themselves like hidden gems.

It is also very possible that it is switchable between OBX/OBX-A modes, much like Rev 1/2 and 3 filters on the Rev4.

I really hope either part of this is true. I personally prefer the Xa's filter from the demos I have heard, but both would really be a dream instrument. I am unsure if they would be willing to have 3 filter options though: X, Xa 12dB, and Xa 24dB

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1683 on: September 27, 2021, 05:02:11 AM »
So here are some questions for those who would designate themselves as potential buyers for an OB-x/xa.

1.  If offered in both original form factor keyboard and desktop, would you get the keyboard?   I think the original needed to be huge in order to cope with heat issues and there aren't enough knobs to justify the size these days.  The P10 is different in my mind, because the lovely walnut box adds to the experience.  I think I'd be more than content with a module for an OBX/a, particularly due to space requirements in my studio room.

2.  How many voices would you need?   I would want 8, with the ability to limit to lower polyphony count, and also the ability to split.   

3.  What would be your highest priority feature on such a product?   For me it would be dual filter types (SEM and Curtis) with 2/4 pole on the Curtis.  It also probably goes without saying that it needs to not be a maintenance nightmare like the original supposedly is, with regard to tuning.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase

CCrow

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1684 on: October 01, 2021, 09:21:57 PM »
So here are some questions for those who would designate themselves as potential buyers for an OB-x/xa.

1.  If offered in both original form factor keyboard and desktop, would you get the keyboard?   I think the original needed to be huge in order to cope with heat issues and there aren't enough knobs to justify the size these days.  The P10 is different in my mind, because the lovely walnut box adds to the experience.  I think I'd be more than content with a module for an OBX/a, particularly due to space requirements in my studio room.

2.  How many voices would you need?   I would want 8, with the ability to limit to lower polyphony count, and also the ability to split.   

3.  What would be your highest priority feature on such a product?   For me it would be dual filter types (SEM and Curtis) with 2/4 pole on the Curtis.  It also probably goes without saying that it needs to not be a maintenance nightmare like the original supposedly is, with regard to tuning.

1. I would get the desktop for both cost and size constraints

2. 8 Voices is what I would want as well

3. My highest priorities would be more filter flexibility like what you mentioned or something similar, as well as that sweet vintage knob. A nice thing to have would be easy stereo panning of the voices

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1685 on: April 16, 2022, 01:10:55 PM »
We all know something is on the way.  We're expecting Tom Oberheim will have some influence over one instrument.  But I'd really like to see one of Dave's classic modern hybrid instruments revitalized - either the Poly Evolver Keyboard or the Prophet 12.  It's time for a successor to one of these masterpieces, which are so different from Sequential's current instruments. 

The instrument could use the Pro 3 or Take 5 design as a starting point, or not.  Either way, there's a gap in Sequential's line-up that has persisted for years.  They need a sophisticated poly synth that screams DSI/Sequential and that isn't a collaboration with any other company.  I would prefer to see a PEK or P12 successor.   
« Last Edit: April 16, 2022, 01:32:44 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
"Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity!"

- Henry David Thoreau

The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1686 on: April 16, 2022, 02:35:44 PM »
We all know something is on the way.  We're expecting Tom Oberheim will have some influence over one instrument.  But I'd really like to see one of Dave's classic modern hybrid instruments revitalized - either the Poly Evolver Keyboard or the Prophet 12.  It's time for a successor to one of these masterpieces, which are so different from Sequential's current instruments. 

The instrument could use the Pro 3 or Take 5 design as a starting point, or not.  Either way, there's a gap in Sequential's line-up that has persisted for years.  They need a sophisticated poly synth that screams DSI/Sequential and that isn't a collaboration with any other company.  I would prefer to see a PEK or P12 successor.

What I want to see.

8-10 voices
2 VCO oscillators (with variable wave shaping like the Prophet 6/Take 5 as well as having a sine wave as an option...which is a staple for FM)
2 Wavetable Oscillators (User wavetable support, interpolation of wavetables which can be turned on and off, wavetable number as a modulation destination (Which would allow for some nice wave sequencing type sounds), dedicated aliasing parameter which would allow the user to dial in as much aliasing as they'd like on the digital sounds)
Either engine (VCO or Wavetable) can be turned on and off independently....this would allow users to have a pure VCO sounding synth or a pure Wavetable based sound or cross pollinate the two.
Vintage Knob.

Possibly 2 filters. I can live with one but...
Filter 1: Modeled after the Take 5 filter.
Filter 2: Modelled after Chris Hugget's WASP designed filter which is found on the Novation Summit (If Focusrite would allow this is another story)

Filters can be played in series or parallel
Filter Drive.

2 Aux Envelopes with Looping and velocity.
Arpeggiator
Poly sequencer
Bi Timbrality
2 touch strips
Dual Digital Effects (Chorus, Phaser, Flanger, Rotary Speaker, Spring Reverb, Hall Reverb and Super Plate Reverb, Digital Delay, BBD Delay, Ring Mod as well as some new more exotic effects: Formant Filter and Reverse Delay)
Dedicated analog distortion


Now some things that would make this synth incredibly unique (In some cases not only to Sequential's current lineup but on the market in general.)
Morphing capabilities (expanded from the Pro 3 upgrade, what an incredibly unique sound this would be. Almost the next evolution of the Prophet VS in many ways but instead of simply adjusting the blend of the oscillators you are actually changing them completely by use of a modulation source)
Dedicated FM and AM parameters which also allows for linear FM (as a nod to the Prophet 12)
Tuned feedback.

If somehow they can talk to Fatar into using their new poly aftertouch keybed (found in the Waldorf Iridium Keys) then a poly aftertouch keybed would be most welcome....especially with the morphing capability above...just think of individually morphing each note. A warm VCO pad which slowly becomes a Wavetable buzz via each finger.

I have no idea what they would call it but honestly this is a synth that Sequential NEEDS to do. I don't want to see them stay in the analog realm or be focusing on doing reissues. I want to see them move forward and have that same type of innovation that Dave had when he was doing the Poly Evolver and the Prophet 12 and Tempest. Just a forward thinking masterpiece which I think would blow away anything else on the market. The Morph functionality of the PolyBrute, the Wavetable sounds of the HydraSynth/Summit combined with the warm VCOs of the Prophet 5/6/10/Take 5, the poly aftertouch of the Iridium all under one hood plus more.

LPF83

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1687 on: May 04, 2022, 05:04:18 PM »
Looks like Sequential and Oberheim have floorspace side by side on the Superbooth 2022 floor plan (see attached image...  booths 0300 and 0301).  Looks like maybe May 10th may be the big announcement?
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1688 on: May 04, 2022, 08:34:21 PM »
Looks like Sequential and Oberheim have floorspace side by side on the Superbooth 2022 floor plan (see attached image...  booths 0300 and 0301).  Looks like maybe May 10th may be the big announcement?

Or could just be them both announcing the OBX together and having the rest of Sequential's catalog showcased. I highly doubt they are going to be showing an OBX reissue alongside a new Sequential synth. The fuss over an Oberheim branded polysynth reissue of an OBX is going to dwarf anything new Sequential has to show, it would be suicide for the product to do it.

LPF83

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1689 on: May 05, 2022, 04:38:04 AM »
Looks like Sequential and Oberheim have floorspace side by side on the Superbooth 2022 floor plan (see attached image...  booths 0300 and 0301).  Looks like maybe May 10th may be the big announcement?

Or could just be them both announcing the OBX together and having the rest of Sequential's catalog showcased. I highly doubt they are going to be showing an OBX reissue alongside a new Sequential synth. The fuss over an Oberheim branded polysynth reissue of an OBX is going to dwarf anything new Sequential has to show, it would be suicide for the product to do it.

I am expecting a single product announcement as well, this post was more about trying to speculate on "when" the new Obie synth is announced...  hopefully this means on or around May 10.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1690 on: May 11, 2022, 09:29:09 AM »
Anyone else have any guesses as to what direction Sequential might go in at this point? I'm genuinely curious if they are just going to stick with analog based gear only going forward and any wavetables/morphing/FM whatever is completely off the table now since the Focusrite takeover?

After the Prophet 5/10 and now OBX8....more reissues in the future instead of expanding on the Pro 3's hybrid concept?

LPF83

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1691 on: May 11, 2022, 11:51:50 AM »
Anyone else have any guesses as to what direction Sequential might go in at this point? I'm genuinely curious if they are just going to stick with analog based gear only going forward and any wavetables/morphing/FM whatever is completely off the table now since the Focusrite takeover?

After the Prophet 5/10 and now OBX8....more reissues in the future instead of expanding on the Pro 3's hybrid concept?

I wondered this same thing recently..  I personally would get excited about a proper Pro One reissue but I doubt we will see it because of the existence of the Toraiz AS-1 and the Pioneer deal.  I assume that Dave, Tony and Chris all made significant contributions to the OB-X8, and if their time and attention are focused on Oberheim products it makes one wonder if they will pretty much just operate as one team for the foreseeable future.

On the Sequential side of things, I think a Prophet VS reissue would be a successful product.  A successor to the Prophet 12 seems imminent or maybe some continuation of the Poly Evolver line.  Digital oscillators with analog filters, one of Dave's strengths.   On the Oberheim side of things, TVS and maybe an Xpander (or Matrix 12 in a module which is basically an Xpander).

Not that I think they should necessarily focus only on reissues (personally I think of the P5/10 and OBX8 as more than just a reissue)...  but, speaking sheerly from a business perspective, the value of the pedigree of these two brands and those specific vintage models is a very difficult proposition to ignore.  Focusrite's other synth company (Novation) has a shorter product history so they aren't in a position to create reissues of vintage synths that go for thousands on the used market in dubious condition, while Dave and Tom are.


Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1692 on: May 11, 2022, 12:16:22 PM »
Anyone else have any guesses as to what direction Sequential might go in at this point? I'm genuinely curious if they are just going to stick with analog based gear only going forward and any wavetables/morphing/FM whatever is completely off the table now since the Focusrite takeover?

After the Prophet 5/10 and now OBX8....more reissues in the future instead of expanding on the Pro 3's hybrid concept?

I wondered this same thing recently..  I personally would get excited about a proper Pro One reissue but I doubt we will see it because of the existence of the Toraiz AS-1 and the Pioneer deal.  I assume that Dave, Tony and Chris all made significant contributions to the OB-X8, and if their time and attention are focused on Oberheim products it makes one wonder if they will pretty much just operate as one team for the foreseeable future.

On the Sequential side of things, I think a Prophet VS reissue would be a successful product.  A successor to the Prophet 12 seems imminent or maybe some continuation of the Poly Evolver line.  Digital oscillators with analog filters, one of Dave's strengths.   On the Oberheim side of things, TVS and maybe an Xpander (or Matrix 12 in a module which is basically an Xpander).

Not that I think they should necessarily focus only on reissues (personally I think of the P5/10 and OBX8 as more than just a reissue)...  but, speaking sheerly from a business perspective, the value of the pedigree of these two brands and those specific vintage models is a very difficult proposition to ignore.  Focusrite's other synth company (Novation) has a shorter product history so they aren't in a position to create reissues of vintage synths that go for thousands on the used market in dubious condition, while Dave and Tom are.

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1693 on: May 11, 2022, 02:57:17 PM »
Anyone else have any guesses as to what direction Sequential might go in at this point?

My track record for Sequential guesses has always been terrible. But a poly with Pro 3-style architecture feels like a natural progression. A second wavetable oscillator would be welcome, because the wavetable oscillator is the Pro 3's killer app.
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LPF83

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1694 on: May 11, 2022, 03:03:27 PM »

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).


Behringer's is Pro-1 vs Sequential Pro One.  Sort of like McDonalds has the golden arches, and McDowells has the golden arcs :)

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.

I look at it like the Take 5 is an attempt at adding an affordable synth the product line, something like the Prophet 600 was.  I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the synth Dave wanted to make, but was more or less a business decision that overlaped with the Focusrite acquisition.  Dave might secretly want to make some magnum opus synth that puts all existing synths ever made to shame, but knows that it could not be released at a price point that could actually sell units; at that point becomes a business risk that he wouldn't have wanted to make as previous owner of Sequential, and almost surely Focusrite doesn't want to take a gamble on now.  So I'm sure he's always working under constraints with regard to what can or cannot be done.  Look at the Prophet X -- innovative and different, but for whatever reason didn't seem to take off..  the large price drop after the initial MSRP indicated to me there was some sort of realization that took place after release.

There are a lot of "weird" and innovative synths being released these days in the lower price brackets, aimed more at the experimental music makers.  I would think entering that space seems risky and not as attractive to someone with a track record like Dave or Tom.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1695 on: May 11, 2022, 04:12:25 PM »

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).


Behringer's is Pro-1 vs Sequential Pro One.  Sort of like McDonalds has the golden arches, and McDowells has the golden arcs :)

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.

I look at it like the Take 5 is an attempt at adding an affordable synth the product line, something like the Prophet 600 was.  I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the synth Dave wanted to make, but was more or less a business decision that overlaped with the Focusrite acquisition.  Dave might secretly want to make some magnum opus synth that puts all existing synths ever made to shame, but knows that it could not be released at a price point that could actually sell units; at that point becomes a business risk that he wouldn't have wanted to make as previous owner of Sequential, and almost surely Focusrite doesn't want to take a gamble on now.  So I'm sure he's always working under constraints with regard to what can or cannot be done.  Look at the Prophet X -- innovative and different, but for whatever reason didn't seem to take off..  the large price drop after the initial MSRP indicated to me there was some sort of realization that took place after release.

There are a lot of "weird" and innovative synths being released these days in the lower price brackets, aimed more at the experimental music makers.  I would think entering that space seems risky and not as attractive to someone with a track record like Dave or Tom.

The Prophet X didnít take off because 8Dio dropped the ball on their side and Gerry Basserman has terrible demos out of the gate. It likely would have flopped regardless if it was a pure analog synth or hybrid.

I agree though, I think thereís a lot of brands coming out now that are offering different forms of synthesis that Dave might just be emotionally and creatively exhausted when it comes to developing synths. I know people are going to take offence to this but I sort of look at the Prophet 5/10 reissues as Dave waiving the white flag as it were. Sort of coming full circle and finally giving the fans a reissue of what they kept complaining about. Not saying he didnít want to do it or isnít excited about it but I think after the disaster with the Prophet X and the mixed reaction towards the Pro 3, I sort of get the feeling Dave said ďFor fuck sake. Here! A Prophet 5 reissue. Happy?Ē and he is burnt out in regards to innovation or he might feel that innovation isnít really what people want and I would say, judging by most of this forum, heís right.

So yeah, once I get the Pro 3, that might be it for me in regards to Sequential. Unless they come out with something mind blowing to me, Iíll consider Sequential bankrupt in regards to innovation and creativity.  Time to move on.

Roger Linn had a great quote ďIf Henry Ford asked everyone what they wanted the most, everyone would have told him that they wanted a faster horse.Ē

So I guess Iíll just be watching everyone on their horses while I wait for my car and honestly...Iím fine with that.

LPF83

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1696 on: May 11, 2022, 06:06:24 PM »

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).


Behringer's is Pro-1 vs Sequential Pro One.  Sort of like McDonalds has the golden arches, and McDowells has the golden arcs :)

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.

I look at it like the Take 5 is an attempt at adding an affordable synth the product line, something like the Prophet 600 was.  I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the synth Dave wanted to make, but was more or less a business decision that overlaped with the Focusrite acquisition.  Dave might secretly want to make some magnum opus synth that puts all existing synths ever made to shame, but knows that it could not be released at a price point that could actually sell units; at that point becomes a business risk that he wouldn't have wanted to make as previous owner of Sequential, and almost surely Focusrite doesn't want to take a gamble on now.  So I'm sure he's always working under constraints with regard to what can or cannot be done.  Look at the Prophet X -- innovative and different, but for whatever reason didn't seem to take off..  the large price drop after the initial MSRP indicated to me there was some sort of realization that took place after release.

There are a lot of "weird" and innovative synths being released these days in the lower price brackets, aimed more at the experimental music makers.  I would think entering that space seems risky and not as attractive to someone with a track record like Dave or Tom.

The Prophet X didnít take off because 8Dio dropped the ball on their side and Gerry Basserman has terrible demos out of the gate. It likely would have flopped regardless if it was a pure analog synth or hybrid.

I agree though, I think thereís a lot of brands coming out now that are offering different forms of synthesis that Dave might just be emotionally and creatively exhausted when it comes to developing synths. I know people are going to take offence to this but I sort of look at the Prophet 5/10 reissues as Dave waiving the white flag as it were. Sort of coming full circle and finally giving the fans a reissue of what they kept complaining about. Not saying he didnít want to do it or isnít excited about it but I think after the disaster with the Prophet X and the mixed reaction towards the Pro 3, I sort of get the feeling Dave said ďFor fuck sake. Here! A Prophet 5 reissue. Happy?Ē and he is burnt out in regards to innovation or he might feel that innovation isnít really what people want and I would say, judging by most of this forum, heís right.

So yeah, once I get the Pro 3, that might be it for me in regards to Sequential. Unless they come out with something mind blowing to me, Iíll consider Sequential bankrupt in regards to innovation and creativity.  Time to move on.

Roger Linn had a great quote ďIf Henry Ford asked everyone what they wanted the most, everyone would have told him that they wanted a faster horse.Ē

So I guess Iíll just be watching everyone on their horses while I wait for my car and honestly...Iím fine with that.

I have a very different take on it all.  I am very much a technology oriented person and always have been.  I like being an early adopter of tech gadgets and what not (to a point).  And no doubt the reason I gravitated toward synthesizers as my instrument of choice had a lot to do with the merging of music with technology.

But, more and more, I view a synthesizer as a musical instrument, more similar to a piano, guitar, violin, saxophone, etc. except that technology enables this particular instrument to cover a wider range of musical roles.   But I still think that a synthesizer has a certain set of fundamental roles it should play in music.   And while it is cool to get all sorts of weird noises out of them or do experimental things at the end of the day, I believe one synth differs from another in the way it handles the basic categories of synth sounds -- and it is these sounds that create the fingerprint of that instrument.

I believe Dave's view of the synthesizer is more like mine -- a synth as an instrument which should be refined or tweaked in very modest ways so as not to bastardize the definition of what a synthesizer is considered to be.  I mean would a Stradivarius still be a Stradivarius if someone decided to be innovative and bolt a vocoder onto it, or some sort of modulation device that let the player modify the tone?   It ceases to even be a violin at that point.

Then of course there is the view of a synth as a technological gadget designed to make music.  I believe that view fuels the desire for new and interesting features, radically different approaches to making sounds, and so forth.   And, I think there is not a right or wrong view.

And maybe my generation (not boomer like Dave but GenX instead) will be the last of the mohicans that believe a synthesizer should be more music instrument than computer.  But that's how I feel.  And I could be wrong but I think Dave is of the same mindset. 

In other words, congnitively I do not map or equate synthesizers to other forms of tech advancements like automobiles for example.  Musical instruments are just different and there's a lot of value in their historical attributes.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 06:10:58 PM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Toraiz AS-1, Virus TI2, Moog SlimPhatty, Hydrasynth desktop, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland JP-8080, Roland System-8, Roland SPD-SX SE / Octapad, Maschine, Cubase

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1697 on: May 11, 2022, 06:22:36 PM »

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).


Behringer's is Pro-1 vs Sequential Pro One.  Sort of like McDonalds has the golden arches, and McDowells has the golden arcs :)

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.

I look at it like the Take 5 is an attempt at adding an affordable synth the product line, something like the Prophet 600 was.  I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the synth Dave wanted to make, but was more or less a business decision that overlaped with the Focusrite acquisition.  Dave might secretly want to make some magnum opus synth that puts all existing synths ever made to shame, but knows that it could not be released at a price point that could actually sell units; at that point becomes a business risk that he wouldn't have wanted to make as previous owner of Sequential, and almost surely Focusrite doesn't want to take a gamble on now.  So I'm sure he's always working under constraints with regard to what can or cannot be done.  Look at the Prophet X -- innovative and different, but for whatever reason didn't seem to take off..  the large price drop after the initial MSRP indicated to me there was some sort of realization that took place after release.

There are a lot of "weird" and innovative synths being released these days in the lower price brackets, aimed more at the experimental music makers.  I would think entering that space seems risky and not as attractive to someone with a track record like Dave or Tom.

The Prophet X didnít take off because 8Dio dropped the ball on their side and Gerry Basserman has terrible demos out of the gate. It likely would have flopped regardless if it was a pure analog synth or hybrid.

I agree though, I think thereís a lot of brands coming out now that are offering different forms of synthesis that Dave might just be emotionally and creatively exhausted when it comes to developing synths. I know people are going to take offence to this but I sort of look at the Prophet 5/10 reissues as Dave waiving the white flag as it were. Sort of coming full circle and finally giving the fans a reissue of what they kept complaining about. Not saying he didnít want to do it or isnít excited about it but I think after the disaster with the Prophet X and the mixed reaction towards the Pro 3, I sort of get the feeling Dave said ďFor fuck sake. Here! A Prophet 5 reissue. Happy?Ē and he is burnt out in regards to innovation or he might feel that innovation isnít really what people want and I would say, judging by most of this forum, heís right.

So yeah, once I get the Pro 3, that might be it for me in regards to Sequential. Unless they come out with something mind blowing to me, Iíll consider Sequential bankrupt in regards to innovation and creativity.  Time to move on.

Roger Linn had a great quote ďIf Henry Ford asked everyone what they wanted the most, everyone would have told him that they wanted a faster horse.Ē

So I guess Iíll just be watching everyone on their horses while I wait for my car and honestly...Iím fine with that.

I have a very different take on it all.  I am very much a technology oriented person and always have been.  I like being an early adopter of tech gadgets and what not (to a point).  And no doubt the reason I gravitated toward synthesizers as my instrument of choice had a lot to do with the merging of music with technology.

But, more and more, I view a synthesizer as a musical instrument, more similar to a piano, guitar, violin, saxophone, etc. except that technology enables this particular instrument to cover a wider range of musical roles.   But I still think that a synthesizer has a certain set of fundamental roles it should play in music.   And while it is cool to get all sorts of weird noises out of them or do experimental things at the end of the day, I believe one synth differs from another in the way it handles the basic categories of synth sounds -- and it is these sounds that create the fingerprint of that instrument.

I believe Dave's view of the synthesizer is more like mine -- a synth as an instrument which should be refined or tweaked in very modest ways so as not to bastardize the definition of what a synthesizer is considered to be.  I mean would a Stradivarius still be a Stradivarius if someone decided to be innovative and bolt a vocoder onto it, or some sort of modulation device that let the player modify the tone?   It ceases to even be a violin at that point.

Then of course there is the view of a synth as a technological gadget designed to make music.  I believe that view fuels the desire for new and interesting features, radically different approaches to making sounds, and so forth.   And, I think there is not a right or wrong view.

And maybe my generation (not boomer like Dave but GenX instead) will be the last of the mohicans that believe a synthesizer should be more music instrument than computer.  But that's how I feel.  And I could be wrong but I think Dave is of the same mindset. 

In other words, congnitively I do not map or equate synthesizers to other forms of tech advancements like automobiles for example.  Musical instruments are just different and there's a lot of value in their historical attributes.

I respect that view. Not one I subscribe to but I respect it. I either case, Iíve given up hope in terms of expecting innovation out of Sequential and thatís okay. Thereís plenty of other brands out there. I just see the writing on the wall and think energy is better spent elsewhere than crossing my fingers. :)

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1698 on: May 13, 2022, 01:58:33 PM »

I don't think we are going to see a Prophet 12 or Poly Evolver successor anymore...nor a VS reissue or Pro One reissue (Both names now are Behringer products so they likely couldn't do a reissue anyway).


Behringer's is Pro-1 vs Sequential Pro One.  Sort of like McDonalds has the golden arches, and McDowells has the golden arcs :)

That's why I think Focusrite might just delegate Novation to do wavetables, hybrids, samples, drum machines etc and Sequential and Oberheim will just be a "greatest hits" companies for now. Not a fan myself, but the market is there and Dave and Tom are probably both at an age where they don't want to deal with rolling the dice on an innovation or completely new product. I've come to accept that the Pro 3 is likely the last "forward thinking" synth Dave will have a hand in. (He barely had anything to do with the Take 5 promotion wise save for a 2 second cameo in the introduction video. A sign of things to come most likely.) So I likely won't get my VCO/Wavetable poly hybrid so I might just have to settle for the Summit.

I look at it like the Take 5 is an attempt at adding an affordable synth the product line, something like the Prophet 600 was.  I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the synth Dave wanted to make, but was more or less a business decision that overlaped with the Focusrite acquisition.  Dave might secretly want to make some magnum opus synth that puts all existing synths ever made to shame, but knows that it could not be released at a price point that could actually sell units; at that point becomes a business risk that he wouldn't have wanted to make as previous owner of Sequential, and almost surely Focusrite doesn't want to take a gamble on now.  So I'm sure he's always working under constraints with regard to what can or cannot be done.  Look at the Prophet X -- innovative and different, but for whatever reason didn't seem to take off..  the large price drop after the initial MSRP indicated to me there was some sort of realization that took place after release.

There are a lot of "weird" and innovative synths being released these days in the lower price brackets, aimed more at the experimental music makers.  I would think entering that space seems risky and not as attractive to someone with a track record like Dave or Tom.

The Prophet X didnít take off because 8Dio dropped the ball on their side and Gerry Basserman has terrible demos out of the gate. It likely would have flopped regardless if it was a pure analog synth or hybrid.

I agree though, I think thereís a lot of brands coming out now that are offering different forms of synthesis that Dave might just be emotionally and creatively exhausted when it comes to developing synths. I know people are going to take offence to this but I sort of look at the Prophet 5/10 reissues as Dave waiving the white flag as it were. Sort of coming full circle and finally giving the fans a reissue of what they kept complaining about. Not saying he didnít want to do it or isnít excited about it but I think after the disaster with the Prophet X and the mixed reaction towards the Pro 3, I sort of get the feeling Dave said ďFor fuck sake. Here! A Prophet 5 reissue. Happy?Ē and he is burnt out in regards to innovation or he might feel that innovation isnít really what people want and I would say, judging by most of this forum, heís right.

So yeah, once I get the Pro 3, that might be it for me in regards to Sequential. Unless they come out with something mind blowing to me, Iíll consider Sequential bankrupt in regards to innovation and creativity.  Time to move on.

Roger Linn had a great quote ďIf Henry Ford asked everyone what they wanted the most, everyone would have told him that they wanted a faster horse.Ē

So I guess Iíll just be watching everyone on their horses while I wait for my car and honestly...Iím fine with that.

But, more and more, I view a synthesizer as a musical instrument, more similar to a piano, guitar, violin, saxophone, etc. except that technology enables this particular instrument to cover a wider range of musical roles.   But I still think that a synthesizer has a certain set of fundamental roles it should play in music.   And while it is cool to get all sorts of weird noises out of them or do experimental things at the end of the day, I believe one synth differs from another in the way it handles the basic categories of synth sounds -- and it is these sounds that create the fingerprint of that instrument.

I believe Dave's view of the synthesizer is more like mine -- a synth as an instrument which should be refined or tweaked in very modest ways so as not to bastardize the definition of what a synthesizer is considered to be. I mean would a Stradivarius still be a Stradivarius if someone decided to be innovative and bolt a vocoder onto it, or some sort of modulation device that let the player modify the tone?   It ceases to even be a violin at that point.


Seems to be a rather limited mindset to be honest. By that logic an electric guitar isn't really a guitar compared to a classical nylon string or an electric violin isn't really a violin (ppffft tell that to Nash The Slash). It's a slippery slope.

But it's all a matter of taste. Some people hated when Miles Davis started going electric and incorporating new elements into his music. Some refuse to even call it Jazz.

Some people don't classify Eddie Van Halen or Hendrix as good guitarists because they hid behind a wall of distortion and effects.

But the market is there obviously. The Prophet 5/10 and OBX8 are basically stripped down traditional instruments...I can respect that. I'm nostalgic about a lot of stuff too....I own a 35mm motion picture camera and still want to shoot on black and white film....but I just hope that innovation and progress isn't thrown out the window or compromised because of a feel good response for 1-2 products.

I know some people would be absolutely thrilled if Dave reissued a Pro One, T8, VS and hell, why not a DrumTrax too....but at some point Dave isn't going to be around anymore and then the rest of the team is left to play "catch up" with other companies who have surpassed them. We are in an age of morphing analog synthesizers now, polyphonic aftertouch, and Behringer releasing $200 clones....pretty soon $3000-5000 stripped down synths with minimum features is going to be a more and more difficult sell.

But if that's what Dave and Tom wants to do....or even if that's what Focusrite wants them to do...then so be it. Can they do both reissues AND innovative synths....maybe....but like I said, I don't see any innovation coming from Sequential in the near future.


jok3r

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1699 on: May 13, 2022, 02:46:21 PM »
As much as I love the "reissues", because they are dream machines for me... but now with OB-X8 and P10R4 the two (IMHO) most important synth of this companies available again, they really should start to think forward again. I'm in Lobo's team in this case.

What about this Poly Pro3 everybody was hoping for a while ago? Add a second wavetable osc and make it at least 8 voices and I would sell my PEAK for it. It's not that I don't like the PEAK, it's a fantastic synth and I also like the updates Novation is giving to it now and then. But after using my Rev2 and PEAK side by side for some years now, I recognized that I like the Sequential way of doing things more.
Prophet Rev2, Moog Matriarch, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES