The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Next New Sequential Instrument

LPF83

  • ***
  • 366
Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1580 on: January 12, 2021, 04:58:14 PM »
That said, it does not impact the fact that I'm jonesing for an OBX module.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQy6BvZbHc

Does splits/layers and has an output for each voice.

It sounds nice.. to me it does sound "based on" an OBX more than simply sounding like an OBX, in that particular demo at least.  In fact there is a certain sound I hear from my OB6 that I don't hear from this synth.  Love the filter on a cartridge approach.  I'm not paying $3400 for a four voice module though, at least I think that's what the online store implies?  4 voices at the base price which can be upgrade to 6 or 8?   I think from a relatively unknown vendor that price point is out of my comfort zone.  I don't have a problem plonking down the bucks for a P10 from Sequential.  I like the fact that 20 years from now, even if Sequential itself isn't around, there will be plenty of folks willing and able to service their synths due to sheer sales volume.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

LoboLives

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1581 on: January 12, 2021, 05:07:44 PM »
That said, it does not impact the fact that I'm jonesing for an OBX module.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQy6BvZbHc

Does splits/layers and has an output for each voice.

"It doesn't say "OBX" and it doesn't have the "Oberheim" name on it."

LPF83

  • ***
  • 366
Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1582 on: January 12, 2021, 07:15:50 PM »
"It doesn't say "OBX" and it doesn't have the "Oberheim" name on it."

If it were a video of an actual OBX and the same sound was coming out of it, I would still say the video is not a proper showcase of the character potential of an OBX.

Hope that makes sense.  I'm not saying that this synth and the OBX can't sound alike (I can take almost any two synths and make them sound alike if I cherry pick the sounds to make my point).   I'm saying that, if this synth is truly capable of fully capturing all facets of the OBX's character, it's not showcasing it very well in that video.

Its just like the videos that attempt to show how the P6 and P5/10 sound the same.   The two synths CAN sound pretty much the same, with certain sounds and when pressed to do so, it's just that by their nature, they generally don't sound the same.   They both sound great, just not the same.

If this synth is trying to replicate an OBX, then let them demo it side by side with the exact same patch settings loaded on this and a vintage OBX.   If Dave and crew come do release an OBX reissue, I'm sure they expect that same level of scrutiny that they know is inevitable. 

But, I don't think this product is saying it replicates the OBX...  they are only saying it's based on it.



« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 07:20:15 PM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

LoboLives

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1583 on: January 12, 2021, 08:12:55 PM »
It would be absolutely hilarious if the next two Sequential products this year are an OBX reissue and Pro One reissue. Dave may as well just sell the company to Uli at that point.

LPF83

  • ***
  • 366
Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1584 on: January 13, 2021, 04:34:57 AM »
It would be absolutely hilarious if the next two Sequential products this year are an OBX reissue and Pro One reissue. Dave may as well just sell the company to Uli at that point.

I understand that vintage reissues are not what you're looking forward to, but isn't your perspective a bit biased toward personal interests, while ignoring the bigger picture?  To me, comparing Dave Smith to Uli Behringer is something approaching blasphemy;  simultaneously, I do understand where your comments are coming from based on what you and I have discussed in these forums in other threads. 

But the reality is that to my knowledge, nobody else is doing proper reissues of vintage poly synths at the moment, thoroughly replicating the sound / feel/ vibe / magic of the original.  Meanwhile, we have LOTS of companies creating new, innovative products, inventing new approaches to synthesis, etc., not to mention all of rapid progress and very economical innovation that happens at the purely software (in the box) level.

So taking that fact into consideration, and considering this clearly defined imbalance in the vintage hardware space, wouldn't it be mostly self-serving to suggest that Sequential should stop being the only vendor on the planet doing it right, so that your needs can be addressed?

Let's say the situation is flipped, and Sequential starts trying to reinvent the wheel and spends a lot of R&D money to come up with something that has never existed, those of us who would like an OBX need to look to another company for authentic and well-executed vintage synth remakes.   What company do you suggest I turn to?  Don't say Uli, because he doesn't pass the authentic and well-executed criteria.  Fly-by-night companies that are run by 2 people with very limited industry experience that aren't going to be in business in 5 years don't count... the company must have a track record of standing behind their products and great warranty service.

I'm not knocking your opinion or perspective here.   Just suggesting that you consider more than that and look at it from all sides.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 04:42:23 AM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1585 on: January 13, 2021, 08:39:29 AM »
Yes, Dave's re-issues are the real thing, comparable to Korg's re-issues of ARPs, and a thousand miles above those of Behringer.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

jok3r

  • **
  • 240
Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1586 on: January 13, 2021, 10:00:51 AM »
There was a post from someone in the Arturia PolyBrute thread, saying since I have all my bases covered with my current synth setup and I should rather go for the sound I'm really after. I thought about that some weeks and came to the conclusion that this is really exactly the thing I want to do. So I came to the conclusion that I really don't need a PolyBrute, because it can do everything... I need Prophets and Oberheims to do just the things they were doing masterfully for decades, because that is the sound I'm loving the most.

At the moment I'm struggelng between the P6 and P10... and am very thankful to have this choice. My opinion about remakes changed a little bit.

From a customers view, I'm thankful that I can get the sound I'm after in an authentic reproduction of the original manufacturer and could never understand why they didn't start to build it years ago. There was request and a market for it as long as I'm into synth.
From a manufactures view, I would use this request and market to have my corporation on solid ground. Furthermore I could not stand the fact, that another manufacturer is building my ideas, and people will buy it there just because they don't get it from me (discussions about price points aside).

So the result for me is: I want to have a VCO poly from Sequential that give me the Prophet sound. For my taste and what I heared the P6 can deliver that too, while having some more feautes... the P10 on the other hand seems more like an "instrument" to me. Don't get me wrong (because we had this discussion in another thread), every synth is an instrument. But the P10 is more like the instrument I would put in my living room next to my piano... it's more about "feeling" in this case.

After coming to this point after years, I noticed that I want to have "the Oberheim" sound, too. And if Dave really comes with an OB X it would give me the same struggle with the OB 6. In this case I could even ignore the fact, that Dave is not the original manufacturer... but at least the manufacturer that I would love to see building Oberheim products, because Dave and Tom seem to be friends.

I don't want to say, that manufacturers should build their old stuff with high priority... I just think it would be smart to have them in their current portfolio... always. And since this is not the case it will take a time slot to reintegrate them in which there will be no "new" product.
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1587 on: January 13, 2021, 10:17:23 AM »
I need Prophets and Oberheims to do just the things they were doing masterfully for decades, because that is the sound I'm loving the most.

I have always been of this point of view and wanted nothing more than the standard Prophet character and limited features.  And the same for the Oberheim.  I would gladly sell all of my equipment for these new re-issues.  The problem is, of course, the cost, which is a real handicap in creating your ideal set up.  Sometimes I consider selling all of my DSI instruments to finance one magnificent synthesizer - say, a Prophet 10 keyboard/module pair.  It's so very tempting to downsize in such a grand way.  But it's also musically advantageous to have several instruments for live orchestrated arrangements.  In that case, the Rev2 is a perfect choice.  But here's the real problem: all of Sequential's instruments are fabulous.  And that's why we all swing back and forth between them.  But I know exactly how you feel, Jok3r.  After considering the re-issues, I find myself saying, "Did we really need any of these other new instruments?"  Answering only for myself, emphatically no!
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 10:19:29 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1588 on: January 13, 2021, 10:45:36 AM »
I think we should be clear that nothing is confirmed yet. Perhaps this is much ado about nothing! The real issue as I see it is when considering the consistent productivity and longevity of Dave (& co.), there's no other peer in the industry when it comes to releasing exciting and often uniquely innovative instruments. The reissue of the timeless P5 is a no-brainer, but anything beyond that is questionable. I'd hate to see Sequential turn into a greatest hits band. More importantly, I'm already starting to see the first signs of fatigue of the market being flooded with reissues set in with some consumers.

Yes, we need new instruments. I for one need a new hybrid synth. I've come to the conclusion that analog filters are still necessary for the character and bite that I'm personally looking for. Digital oscillators offer a wide swath of incredible sounds that the classic VCO/DCO synths can't possibly create. I still don't think there's a hybrid on the market that can match the P12. The only shortcoming of the P12 is there's better filters available these days and the lack of sequencer for using it to control parameters with the notes off. FPGA oscillators and expanded effects/wavetables/voices would also be a plus. 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 10:55:35 AM by A Thousand Eyes »

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1589 on: January 13, 2021, 10:48:14 AM »
Yes, we need new instruments because few of us can afford the re-issues.  I was stating only that I, personally, would be content with the old classics, and not that there shouldn't be new synthesizers.  Besides, who's concerned that there won't be a steady flow of innumerable new instruments?  By comparison, the re-issues will always be few in number.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

jok3r

  • **
  • 240
Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1590 on: January 13, 2021, 10:50:12 AM »
In that case, the Rev2 is a perfect choice.  But here's the real problem: all of Sequential's instruments are fabulous.  And that's why we all swing back and forth between them.

That's the only thing I'm pretty sure at the moment: the Rev2 is going nowhere. It is the reason why I see my grounds covered. It's an outstanding analog synth that can do pretty much every sound I need for my cover music rock band, etc. Sure, my Kronos could do this as well, but the Rev2 just sounds better than the VA engine of the Kronos. But the pair of them together really is everything I need for my every day business.

The only thing I could sell is my PEAK. And I would easily do that... even though I love it really much. But since I can't play any gigs at the moment, I needed to take money from my regular income to get the remaing ~3500€. And my wife, who I really love, would not be very happy about that, since I already bought this bass pedals some weeks ago. We're not broke, but there are other things to pay for in live as well (at least in her opinion ;-) ). So without any gigs it will take me until the end of the year until I could by a P10. It would be cool if there was an OBX anounced by then, so it would be realistic to get one two years from now.

At least this has the advantage of not buying a synth to early, as I did with the Rev2, which I returned due to voice errors and bought it a year later again, after they sorted out the errors.
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

LoboLives

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1591 on: January 13, 2021, 02:30:43 PM »
It would be absolutely hilarious if the next two Sequential products this year are an OBX reissue and Pro One reissue. Dave may as well just sell the company to Uli at that point.

I understand that vintage reissues are not what you're looking forward to, but isn't your perspective a bit biased toward personal interests, while ignoring the bigger picture?  To me, comparing Dave Smith to Uli Behringer is something approaching blasphemy;  simultaneously, I do understand where your comments are coming from based on what you and I have discussed in these forums in other threads. 

But the reality is that to my knowledge, nobody else is doing proper reissues of vintage poly synths at the moment, thoroughly replicating the sound / feel/ vibe / magic of the original.  Meanwhile, we have LOTS of companies creating new, innovative products, inventing new approaches to synthesis, etc., not to mention all of rapid progress and very economical innovation that happens at the purely software (in the box) level.

So taking that fact into consideration, and considering this clearly defined imbalance in the vintage hardware space, wouldn't it be mostly self-serving to suggest that Sequential should stop being the only vendor on the planet doing it right, so that your needs can be addressed?

Let's say the situation is flipped, and Sequential starts trying to reinvent the wheel and spends a lot of R&D money to come up with something that has never existed, those of us who would like an OBX need to look to another company for authentic and well-executed vintage synth remakes.   What company do you suggest I turn to?  Don't say Uli, because he doesn't pass the authentic and well-executed criteria.  Fly-by-night companies that are run by 2 people with very limited industry experience that aren't going to be in business in 5 years don't count... the company must have a track record of standing behind their products and great warranty service.

I'm not knocking your opinion or perspective here.   Just suggesting that you consider more than that and look at it from all sides.

If you want a vintage synth, buy a vintage synth. Maintenance issues? Well....that's why you don't buy vintage synths.

Like I said, It's helping my wallet so let Dave reissue everything. Prophet VS. Prophet 10 Double keyboard, Prophet T8, Prophet 2000, DrumTrax, Tom, A440, everything. Go for it. Then reissue all of Tom's stuff too. Four Voice, Two Voice, DMX, OB-8. OB-1, OBX, OBXa.

I just find it funny that at NAMM when discussing the Pro 3 "Well, we didn't put wavetables in here just because of things like the HydraSynth. We aren't really concerned with other companies or follow what trends are."

The lie detector determined that was a lie......

Look Dave can do whatever he wants and people can buy whatever they want. I think it's dumb and I'll certainly say so if people ask me but I'll stand by my statement that Uli is essentially dictating what Sequential does more than Dave.

I'm obviously in the minority here so maybe it's best I don't visit these forums until Sequential release something of interest to me. 

LPF83

  • ***
  • 366
Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1592 on: January 13, 2021, 03:49:09 PM »
If you want a vintage synth, buy a vintage synth. Maintenance issues? Well....that's why you don't buy vintage synths.

But I don't want a vintage synth.  I want a brand new one without someone else's wear and tear or questionable service history, with a new warranty, that preserves the sound and soul of the original but has more features, runs cooler and more reliably, for less than the cost of a vintage one.  That's why I bought the P10, at least.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

jok3r

  • **
  • 240
Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1593 on: January 13, 2021, 04:01:43 PM »
If you want a vintage synth, buy a vintage synth. Maintenance issues? Well....that's why you don't buy vintage synths.

But I don't want a vintage synth.  I want a brand new one without someone else's wear and tear or questionable service history, with a new warranty, that preserves the sound and soul of the original but has more features, runs cooler and more reliably, for less than the cost of a vintage one.  That's why I bought the P10, at least.

That's exactly the point. I want to have a brand new synth with contemporary connections like USB, etc., but soundwise based on the well known and proven techniques from decades ago.

I just realized that I can say the same about cars, too  :D
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

LPF83

  • ***
  • 366
Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1594 on: January 13, 2021, 04:41:14 PM »
If you want a vintage synth, buy a vintage synth. Maintenance issues? Well....that's why you don't buy vintage synths.

But I don't want a vintage synth.  I want a brand new one without someone else's wear and tear or questionable service history, with a new warranty, that preserves the sound and soul of the original but has more features, runs cooler and more reliably, for less than the cost of a vintage one.  That's why I bought the P10, at least.

That's exactly the point. I want to have a brand new synth with contemporary connections like USB, etc., but soundwise based on the well known and proven techniques from decades ago.

I just realized that I can say the same about cars, too  :D

Also, the ability to switch between Rev 1/2 and 3 filters is vastly underrated, both for the difference in sound for patches that are highly dependent on envelope curve, and just the additional dimension it adds to overall sound design and experimentation.  I believe there is a modification for vintage ones that accomplishes the same thing, but having this feature spanking new, in addition to velocity and aftertouch is really amazing.  And of course the vintage knob (which is great on the P6 and OB6 but is better on the Rev4).
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1595 on: January 13, 2021, 05:13:02 PM »
I just find it funny that at NAMM when discussing the Pro 3 "Well, we didn't put wavetables in here just because of things like the HydraSynth. We aren't really concerned with other companies or follow what trends are."

The lie detector determined that was a lie....

Have whatever "minority" views you want.  They're all welcome here.  But what is not welcome is the above sort of accusation.  Regardless of what your opinion may be, please watch the lack of charity.

Dave has said numerous times that the decisions at Sequential are made independently of what is happening in the synthesizer market.  They simply make the instruments they want to make and when they want to make them.  Those statements don't have to be absolute - nor, I think, does anyone presume they are.  They don't require that the company is utterly clueless as to what's going on around them, so that their decisions are made in a vacuum.  You've unnecessarily interpreted Dave's words in the worst way possible.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 06:22:28 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1596 on: January 13, 2021, 07:41:46 PM »
Last time I saw Lobo rage quit a forum was because he didn't get his TVP reissue. Now he's quitting because there might be an OB-X reissue ... Go figure.

May the lovable scamp make a triumphant return.

jok3r

  • **
  • 240
Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1597 on: January 14, 2021, 12:36:43 AM »
Now I'm a little bit shocked. I didn't think he would actually quit. Seems like the way this company is going is of really big concern for him...
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1598 on: January 14, 2021, 02:46:53 AM »
Well, it seems like being in a different time zone made me coming too late to the party. I still would like to respond to Lobo's last post in a general manner, i.e. without the intention of badmouthing someone who just left the building.

I start with an innocuous topic: The advantage of a reissued vintage synth is that it comes with today's technological advancements, has no immediate maintenance issues, and can be purchased at a lower price (at least when compared to what's being offered on the used market).

As for the accusation that Dave was lying at NAMM (not sure how that was related to the actually existing wavetables in the Pro 3): What Dave usually means by such statements is that Sequential is not a company driven by a market research team. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have to bury their heads in the sand.

And finally about Sequential's instruments and how interesting they are to various users: No company can design products for everyone. If they would try to do so or aim for including every possible feature anybody could ever request, they'd end up with Homer Simpson's infamous car design, plenty of featuritis (can't be vaccinated), and essentially a bad instrument.

Also: No one should take it too personal if Sequential doesn't always release exactly what one had in mind. Such attitudes say more about a user's consumer behavior as opposed to actual musical needs.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 03:10:23 AM by Paul Dither »

jg666

  • ***
  • 399
Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1599 on: January 14, 2021, 02:55:29 AM »
Well, it seems like being in a different time zone made me coming too late to the party. I still would like to respond to Lobo's last post in a general manner, i.e. without the intention of badmouthing someone who just left the building.

I start with an innocuous topic: The advantage of a reissued vintage synth is that it comes with today's technological advancements, has no immediate maintenance issues, and can be purchased at a lower price (at least when compared to what's being offered the used market).

As for the accusation that Dave was lying at NAMM (not sure how that was related to the actually existing wavetables in the Pro 3): What Dave usually means by such statements is that Sequential is not a company driven by a market research team. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have to bury their heads in the sand.

And finally about Sequential's instruments and how interesting they are to various users: No company can design products for everyone. If they would try to do so or aim for including every possible feature anybody could ever request, they'd end up with Homer Simpson's infamous car design, plenty of featuritis (can't be vaccinated), and essentially a bad instrument.

Also: No one should take it too personal if Sequential doesn't always release exactly what one had in mind. Such attitudes say more about a user's consumer behavior as opposed to actual musical needs.

I agree 100% with what you've said. I also know what Dave means because the company our company works for has the same beliefs about our software package. But, as you say, you can't ignore what the buying public seem to want so you are driven by both the latest trends and by your own desires to produce your own unique desires.

Apologies if my post doesn't seem to make much sense, I don't have the way with words that Paul has :)

@Lobo - it's a very common feeling at the moment to feel alienated and out on a limb, just try and smile through it all and enjoy the synths that you already own - that's my current moto :) I live alone and have not had anyone in my house since March last year and have not visited anyone else's house since then either. It's not easy coping with all these continual lockdowns but my keyboards keep me sane-ish !!

One other thing :) I think we’re very lucky to be living in an age where synths are plentiful and relatively affordable. I was born in 1961 and throughout my younger years from when I first noticed a synth sound in about 1969 I would lust after a synthesizer but with the knowledge that I could never afford to buy one as the prices were always so high. These days you can buy a whole lorry load of synths for the price that a single one might have cost back then !
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 03:33:53 AM by jg666 »
DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6