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Next New DSI Instrument

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1160 on: January 17, 2020, 01:27:43 AM »
So does this mean 4-16 can not be note oriented or am I mistaken?

Correct. Tracks 1-3 cover all the note-related options you need on a per oscillator basis.

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1161 on: January 17, 2020, 05:04:22 AM »
So does this mean 4-16 can not be note oriented or am I mistaken?

Correct. Tracks 1-3 cover all the note-related options you need on a per oscillator basis.

What I meant to say was. Can 4-16 not be note oriented to sequence bass lines/melodies for external gear?
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1162 on: January 17, 2020, 09:00:55 AM »
Is filter envelope sustain a destination? It isnít in the Pro 2 and itís a shame as itís incredibly useful for patch morphing.

The sustain stage of all envelopes is not a modulation destination. Not sure what you mean by patch morphing. There is only one patch/program at a time.

Thatís a shame. By ďpatch morphingĒ I simply meant using the matrix via a slider or mod wheel, sequencer, etc to change between two distinct sounds within a single patch.

Pym

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1163 on: January 17, 2020, 09:27:33 AM »
This is extremely difficult to do, due to our modulation routings and such. What happens if you 'morph' to a preset that has different FX? Or different mod routings? Basically you have to run twice the DSP and kind of blend... but then the source material could be different but the filters are static but may be at different locations?

Non-trivial problem to overcome. Easier to do in the digital realm. There are some things we could do, like limit the amount of params that are included in the 'morph' but I think that isn't a great solution

You have 32 mod slots now, lots of room to create your own morph

Is filter envelope sustain a destination? It isnít in the Pro 2 and itís a shame as itís incredibly useful for patch morphing.

The sustain stage of all envelopes is not a modulation destination. Not sure what you mean by patch morphing. There is only one patch/program at a time.

Thatís a shame. By ďpatch morphingĒ I simply meant using the matrix via a slider or mod wheel, sequencer, etc to change between two distinct sounds within a single patch.
Dave Smith Instruments

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1164 on: January 17, 2020, 09:31:46 AM »
This is extremely difficult to do, due to our modulation routings and such. What happens if you 'morph' to a preset that has different FX? Or different mod routings? Basically you have to run twice the DSP and kind of blend... but then the source material could be different but the filters are static but may be at different locations?

Non-trivial problem to overcome. Easier to do in the digital realm. There are some things we could do, like limit the amount of params that are included in the 'morph' but I think that isn't a great solution

You have 32 mod slots now, lots of room to create your own morph

Is filter envelope sustain a destination? It isnít in the Pro 2 and itís a shame as itís incredibly useful for patch morphing.

The sustain stage of all envelopes is not a modulation destination. Not sure what you mean by patch morphing. There is only one patch/program at a time.

Thatís a shame. By ďpatch morphingĒ I simply meant using the matrix via a slider or mod wheel, sequencer, etc to change between two distinct sounds within a single patch.

As I said, perhaps my terminology was ambiguous; I wasnít advocating morphing between two presets, rather I was talking about morphing between two distinctly different sounds within a single preset by apply routings through the mod matrix or sequencer. I was just lamenting that filter envelope sustain isnít a modulatable parameter as itís nice to be able to alter the resting frequency of the filter without having to alter the cutoff.

Pym

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1165 on: January 17, 2020, 10:35:11 AM »
Yeah thatís a feature I have advocated for more than once. Maybe Iíll revisit it.

Our mod table already has a ton of routings though... itís getting unwieldy and I canít think of a better design

This is extremely difficult to do, due to our modulation routings and such. What happens if you 'morph' to a preset that has different FX? Or different mod routings? Basically you have to run twice the DSP and kind of blend... but then the source material could be different but the filters are static but may be at different locations?

Non-trivial problem to overcome. Easier to do in the digital realm. There are some things we could do, like limit the amount of params that are included in the 'morph' but I think that isn't a great solution

You have 32 mod slots now, lots of room to create your own morph

Is filter envelope sustain a destination? It isnít in the Pro 2 and itís a shame as itís incredibly useful for patch morphing.

The sustain stage of all envelopes is not a modulation destination. Not sure what you mean by patch morphing. There is only one patch/program at a time.

Thatís a shame. By ďpatch morphingĒ I simply meant using the matrix via a slider or mod wheel, sequencer, etc to change between two distinct sounds within a single patch.

As I said, perhaps my terminology was ambiguous; I wasnít advocating morphing between two presets, rather I was talking about morphing between two distinctly different sounds within a single preset by apply routings through the mod matrix or sequencer. I was just lamenting that filter envelope sustain isnít a modulatable parameter as itís nice to be able to alter the resting frequency of the filter without having to alter the cutoff.
Dave Smith Instruments

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1166 on: January 17, 2020, 01:09:28 PM »
So does this mean 4-16 can not be note oriented or am I mistaken?

Correct. Tracks 1-3 cover all the note-related options you need on a per oscillator basis.

What I meant to say was. Can 4-16 not be note oriented to sequence bass lines/melodies for external gear?

Yes, the sequencer has MIDI note and CC output destinations for both MIDI outputs.
Sequential

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1167 on: January 17, 2020, 01:32:52 PM »
Hi,

is there any way to output the dry signal (after the VCA) in addition to the dry+wet signal at the main L+R outputs (e.g. via CV outs)? In general, this is a feature that I'm sorely missing with DSI/Sequential products (e.g. also on my Prophet X where outputs B are begging to be used that way)!

Thanks and best regards

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1168 on: January 18, 2020, 12:12:56 AM »
Paul Dither:

Can you explain the wavetable functionality a bit more in depth? In the Smith video he state that each of the 32 wavetables has 16 wavetables in them, but what exactly is he meaning by that? Is that 16 waveforms that is simply morphed in between when the shape knob is tweaked, or are we talking about actual 16 wavetables?... I have a feeling that Smith meant 16 waveforms and not 16 wavetables?

If it is in fact 16 wavetables, how are they laid out?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 12:16:29 AM by Razmo »
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1169 on: January 18, 2020, 03:52:44 AM »
Paul Dither:

Can you explain the wavetable functionality a bit more in depth? In the Smith video he state that each of the 32 wavetables has 16 wavetables in them, but what exactly is he meaning by that? Is that 16 waveforms that is simply morphed in between when the shape knob is tweaked, or are we talking about actual 16 wavetables?... I have a feeling that Smith meant 16 waveforms and not 16 wavetables?

If it is in fact 16 wavetables, how are they laid out?

It's 16 single cycle waves per set, 1024 samples in length at a sample rate of 48K. And you can interpolate between them in 256 increments (0-255).
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 04:30:26 AM by Paul Dither »

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1170 on: January 18, 2020, 07:11:42 AM »
Paul Dither:

Can you explain the wavetable functionality a bit more in depth? In the Smith video he state that each of the 32 wavetables has 16 wavetables in them, but what exactly is he meaning by that? Is that 16 waveforms that is simply morphed in between when the shape knob is tweaked, or are we talking about actual 16 wavetables?... I have a feeling that Smith meant 16 waveforms and not 16 wavetables?

If it is in fact 16 wavetables, how are they laid out?

It's 16 single cycle waves per set, 1024 samples in length at a sample rate of 48K. And you can interpolate between them in 256 increments (0-255).

Thank you for the info :) ... what about bit depth?

This is important to me if user wavetables ever become reality because I'd certainly supply the community here with several wavetables derived from my QUANTUM, which can create them from actual samples... would be cool to be able to transfer from Quantum to PRO3 :)
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1171 on: January 18, 2020, 09:14:32 AM »
The Pro 3 sequencer I believe doesn't have song mode.

That all being said it could easily be the centerpiece of a setup. Have the Tempest as the master clock doing a beat hooked up to the Pro 3 and have the Pro 3's sequencer sequencing internal sounds and Moogs, ARPs, Roland System 500 or whatever.

Wow...I just realized something. A big feature request of the Tempest was to be able to sequence more than one mono synth but maybe the Pro 2 and now the Pro 3 was meant to be the piece of gear to do that all along.

As you pointed out, the Pros don't have a song mode. So exactly how are you going to have it sequence other gear beyond the 64 step limit? Unless there's someway around that, I don't see how it could be the true piŤce de rťsistance of your setup... Also, the synths you named are mostly (aside from the One/Memory) mono synths. Your Tempest can already sequence those if it sacrifices a track/voice of its own. The same is true for the Rytm as of the latest update. Do the Pro 2/3's tracks send more than one midi note? If not, then again, you have to awkwardly play one note into it at a time, except you now have the aforementioned step limit. Hopefully I'm simply misinformed and there's a way around the limit and the song mode from some external gear can somehow have the Pros send note information beyond the 64 steps...

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1172 on: January 18, 2020, 12:36:44 PM »
I either read somewhere or heard Dave Smith in one of the NAMM demo videos of the Pro 3 that FM of the oscillators is possible? 

If so I could be tempted to sell our MEK to fund the Pro 3.  Iím curious if any of you all owned a P.E. MEK would you sell it for a Pro 3? 

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1173 on: January 18, 2020, 02:03:28 PM »
I either read somewhere or heard Dave Smith in one of the NAMM demo videos of the Pro 3 that FM of the oscillators is possible? 

If so I could be tempted to sell our MEK to fund the Pro 3.  Iím curious if any of you all owned a P.E. MEK would you sell it for a Pro 3?

The mod matrix is audio rate, so it is just a matter of routing one osc output to anothers pitch... Ringmod is also possible, just route to vca (if the individual vcas is a destination that is)...
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1174 on: January 18, 2020, 02:15:04 PM »
Ok yes thatís what I recall!  Very nice.  The Pro 3 ticks all the boxes for me in what my perfect ideal synth is.  It was the Evolver, but if the Pro 3 is capable of producing the similar hollow, metallic FM type bass tones then Iím ready.  From watching Dave demo this machine at NAMM, Iím really excited about the sequencer.  It seems much more immediate, more user friendly, and many more options even compared to the sequencers on any other DSI/Sequential board. 
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1175 on: January 18, 2020, 02:39:43 PM »
Ok yes thatís what I recall!  Very nice.  The Pro 3 ticks all the boxes for me in what my perfect ideal synth is.  It was the Evolver, but if the Pro 3 is capable of producing the similar hollow, metallic FM type bass tones then Iím ready.  From watching Dave demo this machine at NAMM, Iím really excited about the sequencer.  It seems much more immediate, more user friendly, and many more options even compared to the sequencers on any other DSI/Sequential board.

Yes... Both specs and sound looks very promissing... It "talked" me out of saving for a MOOG ONE... Everything seems to be "just right" up until now... I hope it will not suffer from too many OS bugs upon release, but I guesd we will just have to wait and see about that... I will give it a few months and look at the initial responses on the pro 3 forum, then I will get one to complement my QUANTUM with its analog front end and filters.

The only thing I will probably never use though, is the modular CV ins and outs...

To me it will be perfect for layering with the quantum... Arps and sequences lsyered with polyphonic pads on the Quantum... I will probsbly route its audio outs to the Quantum external inputs, then I can use the PRO3 as extra analog oscillators in the Quantum on monophonic presets, and also use it live thru granular synthesis and the FX section... Almost as a monophonic add on to the Quantum.
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1176 on: January 18, 2020, 02:45:21 PM »
I think it must be meant to sequence other gear as well because 16 tracks is quite overkill for a 3 note paraphonic with a few mod tracks... Also, why else would pro3 have a dedicated midi output 2? I would believe this output is what you would use for connecting external gear, and the first output being dedicated for pro 3 alone using it for sysex communication etc. Maybe... Just a guess though.

Okay, these are the sequencer destinations:

1) All synth parameters (like osc 1-3, shape mod, filter frequency, etc.)
2) All 3 parameters of FX1 and FX2
3) Modulation slot amounts 1-32
4) CV Out 1-4
5) CV Trigger 1-4
6) MIDI note on/off messages for channels 1-16 (individually selectable for MIDI output 1 and 2)
7) CC1, 2, 4, 11, 13, 14, 15, 37, 57, 74, 102, 103, 104, 117, 118, 119 (individually selectable for MIDI output 1 and 2)

Tracks 1-3 are reserved for note-related functions (oscillators 1-3), tracks 4-16 can be freely assigned.

Hope that helps.

Regarding the oscillator destinations, does these include the individual vcas of the oscillators, so that you can do ringmod via the mod matrix? (or Audio Modulation/AM as it was called on the evolvers)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 02:47:53 PM by Razmo »
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1177 on: January 18, 2020, 02:49:50 PM »
Oooh... And I see that they included the Plate Reverb from the X... Very nice for ambient textures!  :)... And the RingMod FX has been included... Nice!

Seems like they have taken the best features and tech from their past, infused it with enhancements and new features that fit exsctly what I would have chosen, and crammed it into a perfect mono/paraphonic synth... Besides user wavetables anything I may wish for is mere luxury I could live without... Very nice job on this one I would say  :)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 02:53:38 PM by Razmo »
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1178 on: January 18, 2020, 03:12:21 PM »
That will be an ultimately amazing setup between the Quantum and Pro 3!  Now I guess I decide to sell the MEK.  If anyoneís interested itís like new condition with potentiometers! 
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #1179 on: January 18, 2020, 03:15:26 PM »
The only thing I will probably never use though, is the modular CV ins and outs...

Same, unless there's modular gear that features savable patches that I could do something interesting with in conjunction with the Pro 3. I'm open to suggestions.