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Next New DSI Instrument

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #380 on: January 23, 2017, 02:35:23 PM »
With the REV2 now announced to quite a bit of excitement, I'm expecting the used market to be flooded with Prophet '08's at low prices, but I haven't seen it yet.  Ebay and Reverb prices for the keyboard version are still at $1,300 and up, and even Poly Evolver Keyboards are still above $2,000.  But there are quite a few now available.  Perhaps when the REV2 is finally shipping, prices for the other two instruments will nose dive.  It will be a difficult time to sell.

Incidentally, the substantially expanded REV2 and the Poly Evolver Keyboard would make a fabulous combination.  I've always felt the PEK somewhat dwarfed the P'08, but the "updated" P'08 has somewhat caught up to it in both physical size and substance.  The REV2 control board is a bit deeper, front to back, than the old P'08.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 02:49:18 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #381 on: January 23, 2017, 03:03:54 PM »
With the REV2 now announced to quite a bit of excitement, I'm expecting the used market to be flooded with Prophet '08's at low prices, but I haven't seen it yet.  Ebay and Reverb prices for the keyboard version are still at $1,300 and up, and even Poly Evolver Keyboards are still above $2,000.  But there are quite a few now available.  Perhaps when the REV2 is finally shipping, prices for the other two instruments will nose dive.  It will be a difficult time to sell.

I'm not sure whether the used market will be flooded with Prophet '08s automatically. But I guess it's safe to assume that those who plan on selling their Prophet '08s might have to sell them at prices that are below the reduced prices for which they could be had by the end of last year. Based on that I'd say that the best time for selling Prophet '08s was probably before last year's price drop (which was the second I think, as it sold for $2,099.00 originally).
It's also not that the Prophet '08 has gone completely with the REV2, since the latter still is a Prophet '08 at its core. So as long as the REV2 is in production, the typical vintage synth logic won't really work, except for those people who prefer the appearance of the Prophet '08. That's the major difference with regard to the Evolver, which is a true vintage piece by now that was also sold in fewer quantities, which also makes it rarer and hence leads to higher prices on the used market.

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #382 on: May 01, 2017, 08:37:45 PM »
Hey, new here.  Yet another refugee from GS.   ;)  This isn't a bad way to start off.

With the P REV2 about to appear, what would the class here be looking forward to in 2018?  Some new flagship?  This is what I'm hoping for, as the REV2 dukes it out with the likes of the PEAK and that dreaded DM12 in the mid price bracket.  So assuming it's a flagship, what do you guys expect or want?

Personally, I'd rather not see another hybrid, as the Pro2 and P~12 handle that aspect more than capably.  Not a new take on the VS or PolyEvolver either.  I'd much rather see a super Prophet like a T-8 on steroids, with hopefully a polypressure keyboard.  Or a monster Obie like a Matrix-12 style synth.  Or dare I say it, helping Moog out the way Dave did with Tom and making a poly-Moog, with Moog branding.
Everyone should have a Prophet in the family

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #383 on: May 02, 2017, 11:50:11 AM »
Welcome to the DSI Forum, Synthguy.  Since you've come from GS, you may need to enlist in our series of intensive deprogramming sessions in which, after having several differences of opinions with other posters, you'll be physically restrained and made to respond to them without profanity, abuse, or face-in-palm emoticons.  If you survive, then you'll be declared clean and fit to post. 

Welcome, welcome.  ;D

Regarding your question, I'm always hoping for the same from DSI - first, a large VCO poly synth.  I realize the Prophet Rev2 may be as large as DSI goes, but I'd love to see a really big all-analog instrument - say, a cross between the Prophet 12 and the Prophet-6.  Second, I hope to see a VCO mono synth - in this case, a cross between the Pro 2 and the Prophet-6.  I'd even be happy with a 3 1/2- 4 octave keyboard version of the Toraiz AS-1 if it had the typical DSI control panel. 

As for actual expectations, I had thought DSI would produce an all-digital synthesizer, but that apparently isn't going to happen.  And with the PEAK in the air, I would expect a true successor to the Poly Evolver to be even less likely than before.  I'm all out of expectations.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 12:16:01 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #384 on: May 02, 2017, 12:18:47 PM »
Welcome to the DSI Forum, Synthguy.  Since you've come from GS, you may need to enlist in our series of intensive deprogramming sessions in which, after having several differences of opinions with other posters, you'll be physically restrained and made to respond to them without profanity, abuse, or face-in-palm emoticons.  If you survive, then you'll be declared clean and fit to post. 

Welcome, welcome.  ;D

lol
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Prophet 2000

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #385 on: May 02, 2017, 02:01:05 PM »
I'm at a complete loss as to what to expect next. I'm still pushing for one of the following

Prophet 20 with multitimbrality (although this could be tricky with finding a balance between menu diving and a direct hands on experience)

Prophet X (A complete digital synth with boy VS and FM capabilities as well as sampling).....but this could easily happen with an OS upgrade for the Prophet 12 that adds more VS waves and samples from the Prophet 2000 as oscillator shape options.

Much like how the Rev2 is essentially two Prophet 08s under one hood (with a better) layout could we see the same thing happen with the Prophet 6 as sort of a throwback to the Prophet 10? With the OPTION to hook a controller up to the synth and play each engine on separate keybeds as well as the ability to split and layer on a single keybed. With no menu in keeping true to the Prophet 6 tradition and layout.

Would we see an the idea Pioneer AS-1 as an actual successor of the Pro 2 with 4 independent VCO based AS-1 engines under one hood with a fatar keybed allowing 4 different patches and sequences to be played independently? The PRO-4?

More importantly to me....will we ever see the Sequential name on anything again?
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Shaw

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #386 on: May 02, 2017, 02:01:17 PM »
As for actual expectations, I had thought DSI would produce an all-digital synthesizer, but that apparently isn't going to happen.  And with the PEAK in the air, I would expect a true successor to the Poly Evolver to be even less likely than before.  I'm all out of expectations.
Not sure about that one... If DSI had a new digital synth in the works, R&D would have started long before DSI ever heard of the Peak.  I doubt news of a competitor synth would have them abandon the R&D that was already in progress.   Right?
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #387 on: May 02, 2017, 02:27:25 PM »
As for actual expectations, I had thought DSI would produce an all-digital synthesizer, but that apparently isn't going to happen.  And with the PEAK in the air, I would expect a true successor to the Poly Evolver to be even less likely than before.  I'm all out of expectations.
Not sure about that one... If DSI had a new digital synth in the works, R&D would have started long before DSI ever heard of the Peak.  I doubt news of a competitor synth would have them abandon the R&D that was already in progress.   Right?

I don't know.  DSI seems to operate at least somewhat independently of the market.  I'm just saying that, if they were considering a revived Evolver, the PEAK would make this an inopportune time to release it.  I'm sure many of their instrument ideas end up on the cutting room floor.  But more importantly, Robot Heart has plainly stated that it's fairly certain Dave will not make a Poly Evolver Keyboard Mk II, so that's the end of that hope.  Personally, I would have been thrilled if they did with the PEK what they've done with the Prophet '08 in the Rev2.  It would have been so gratifying to see the old flagship given a new coat of blue paint.
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #388 on: May 03, 2017, 05:01:11 AM »
As for actual expectations, I had thought DSI would produce an all-digital synthesizer, but that apparently isn't going to happen.  And with the PEAK in the air, I would expect a true successor to the Poly Evolver to be even less likely than before.  I'm all out of expectations.
Not sure about that one... If DSI had a new digital synth in the works, R&D would have started long before DSI ever heard of the Peak.  I doubt news of a competitor synth would have them abandon the R&D that was already in progress.   Right?

I don't know.  DSI seems to operate at least somewhat independently of the market.  I'm just saying that, if they were considering a revived Evolver, the PEAK would make this an inopportune time to release it.  I'm sure many of their instrument ideas end up on the cutting room floor.  But more importantly, Robot Heart has plainly stated that it's fairly certain Dave will not make a Poly Evolver Keyboard Mk II, so that's the end of that hope.  Personally, I would have been thrilled if they did with the PEK what they've done with the Prophet '08 in the Rev2.  It would have been so gratifying to see the old flagship given a new coat of blue paint.

Dave also once stated he would never make a new VCO based synth which he ended up doing.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #389 on: May 03, 2017, 07:26:02 AM »
That's right; he even laughed at the idea several times.  But that's a slim reason for hope, since a VCO synth is a general idea, whereas the Poly Evolver is a specific instrument.  I think DSI would respond: The Prophet 12 is the Evolver Mk II, so the PEK will not be revisited.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 07:59:15 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #390 on: May 03, 2017, 07:56:42 AM »
More importantly to me....will we ever see the Sequential name on anything again?

That is an intriguing question.  Could the name be reserved for one and only one instrument?  It seems absurd.  I suppose the Toraiz AS-1 could be partially regarded as a Sequential instrument.  But what about an all-new instrument?  And must Sequential remain a backward-looking line of synthesizers and DSI the forward-looking one? 

If we're ever to see a VCO mono synth from Dave Smith, I would say it will be through the Sequential concept.  Perhaps a Prophet 1?
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #391 on: May 03, 2017, 10:36:23 AM »
More importantly to me....will we ever see the Sequential name on anything again?

That is an intriguing question.  Could the name be reserved for one and only one instrument?  It seems absurd.  I suppose the Toraiz AS-1 could be partially regarded as a Sequential instrument.  But what about an all-new instrument?  And must Sequential remain a backward-looking line of synthesizers and DSI the forward-looking one?

I think ever since the Prophet-6 there was simply no reason to use the Sequential name. I guess it could have been used for the OB-6 for technical reasons, since the OB-6 was based on the topology of the Prophet-6. With regard to content, though, using the name DSI in conjunction with "Tom Oberheim" first emphasized the latest names of the designers' companies (after all, DSI is newer than Sequential) and second it also drew more attention to the two individuals Dave and Tom.

As the REV2 is an upgraded Prophet '08, the name DSI was mandatory. That pretty much only leaves the AS-1, for which the Sequential banner could have been rightly used due to it being related to the Prophet-6. But I assume, since DSI is still the main or general name of the company, they choose it for collaborations. It would also be confusing if one Toraiz product carried the name DSI and the other the name Sequential.

If we're ever to see a VCO mono synth from Dave Smith, I would say it will be through the Sequential concept.  Perhaps a Prophet 1?

Well, we just saw a new monosynth like that and it's called the AS-1. And the official answer to a reissued Pro-One was the Pro 2, which is much more powerful and runs circles around a Pro-One both in terms of features and sonic flexibility. So the two extremes of a monosynth - one based on the Prophet-6 voice, one forward looking powerhouse - have already been released.
It would make little to no sense to design a third monosynth whose novelty only lies in combining the engine of the AS-1 with a housing that's similar to that of the Pro 2 in terms of size, especially since the market is already pretty saturated with VCO-based monosynths. Plus: the Prophet-6 can also already be used as that kind of monosynth with a generous keyboard. Releasing just another monosynth version that wouldn't offer anything substantially new inside would also most likely cause the then not unjustified reaction, "they're running out of ideas."

As for next designs: This is getting harder to predict, especially since the whole market situation changed significantly over the past couple of years and even months. With an increasing number of low-, mid-, and high-price competitors around who also release or start to release analog or hybrid polysynths, innovative functionality and features become more and more important in order to come up with a product that's different and unique enough. That can happen on a rather subtle level like the inclusion of new technology (an example would be the use of FPGAs in the PEAK), or on a conceptual level that provides a different take on the topology of a synth voice. While I'm not saying that we need an Evolver REV2, an instrument in the spirit of the Evolver or something like a West-Coast-inspired polysynth that chysn once insinuated would certainly cater towards a different take on the conceptual side.

An eccentric or overly experimental design, however, is not always without any risks either, as especially the Prophet '08, the Prophet-6, and the OB-6 proved that people are definitely more into simpler engines. It was never really a question, for example, whether the Poly Evolver or the Prophet '08 was the bestseller.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 10:47:17 AM by Paul Dither »

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #392 on: May 03, 2017, 11:11:08 AM »
Yes, the Prophet-6 can be used as a mono synth, but not everyone can afford a mono synth of that price.  And the Toraiz-A1 is sort of a DSI product, and sort of not.  Hence, it isn't carried on the DSI web site.  But lacking a traditional keyboard, it just can't fulfill the complete mono synth role. 

While the Prophet '08 was in production (and the Prophet '08 can be used as a mono synth), DSI offered the Tetr4, the Mopho desktop, the Mopho Keyboard, the Mopho x4, and the Mopho SE - all at the same time (even while the Evolver Desktop was still around).  So, I do think there's a precedent for a Prophet-6 and a simultaneous one-voice keyboard version of the same, in spite of the Toraiz-A1 and Pro 2. 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 11:41:11 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #393 on: May 03, 2017, 11:47:16 AM »
So, I do think there's a precedent for a Prophet-6 and a simultaneous one-voice keyboard version of the same, in spite of the Toraiz-A1.

Ah, I've been going on about this for years now. I can't remember exactly why I gave up on there being a Prophet 1, but there was definitely some post that made me realize that it isn't happening. Maybe it was something that somebody said about the Pro 2 being the DSI keyboard monosynth. Honestly, I don't remember, but I was pretty convinced at the time.

But that's okay. There's a good chance I'm going to replace my Little Phatty with Soundmachines Arches when it finally comes out.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #394 on: May 03, 2017, 12:01:35 PM »
Ah, I've been going on about this for years now. I can't remember exactly why I gave up on there being a Prophet 1, but there was definitely some post that made me realize that it isn't happening. Maybe it was something that somebody said about the Pro 2 being the DSI keyboard monosynth. Honestly, I don't remember, but I was pretty convinced at the time.

I don't know because I don't have one, but can a Pro 2 really serve in the place of a Pro One type VCA synthesizer?  The former is an excellent instrument, but I don't see it as a front line analog substitute with a warm raw analog tone.  Folks, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't presently see the Pro 2 in this way.  Otherwise, I would have bought one by now. 
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #395 on: May 03, 2017, 12:13:32 PM »
Yes, the Prophet-6 can be used as a mono synth, but not everyone can afford a mono synth of that price.  And the Toraiz-A1 is sort of a DSI product, and sort of not.  Hence, it isn't carried on the DSI web site.  But lacking a traditional keyboard, it just can't fulfill the complete mono synth role.

The Prophet-6 might be an expensive choice for a monosynth, I just meant that it can technically used for this purpose in as much as a new Pro-One is already in there. And while the AS-1 is a collaborative effort, its synth voice is basically a monophonic Prophet-6.

While the Prophet '08 was in production (and the Prophet '08 can be used as a mono synth), DSI offered the Tetr4, the Mopho desktop, the Mopho Keyboard, the Mopho x4, and the Mopho SE - all at the same time (even while the Evolver monos were still around).  So, I do think there's a precedent for a Prophet-6 and a simultaneous one-voice keyboard version of the same, in spite of the Toraiz-A1.

Those were also different times though. The Mopho and Tetra were introduced before the Volcas, the MS-20 and Odyssey reissues, the MiniBrute and MicroBrute, the MatrixBrute, the Minilogue, the Dominion-1, the Sub Phatty, the Sub 37, the Mother-32, and so on. Most of these instruments, particularly the monosynths by Arturia and Korg can be produced and sold at much lower prices which is one of the reasons DSI left behind the lower price market.
The other thing is, as I've already mentioned, that there are so many monosynths on the market right now that the world isn't necessarily waiting for yet another iteration, except it's even more affordable or it offers a unique feature set and hardware implementation. Concerning the latter, you might regard the MatrixBrute as the all-analog sibling of the Pro 2. So that spot has been filled as well.

What also changed is that in 2017 DSI are no longer competing with themselves when it comes to new analog or hybrid polysynths. Behringer now offers the DM12 and DM6, there's Novation's Peak which gained high interest, Waldorf's Quantum, and Modal's 002 and 008 in the higher price range. I would even add something like the Abyss by Dreadbox which is already pretty popular before it has even been released and - for those who don't care about whether it's truly analog or not - Roland's System-8. Those are all different choices for different priorities that didn't exist when the Prophet '08 was introduced for example.

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #396 on: May 03, 2017, 12:28:17 PM »
Ah, I've been going on about this for years now. I can't remember exactly why I gave up on there being a Prophet 1, but there was definitely some post that made me realize that it isn't happening. Maybe it was something that somebody said about the Pro 2 being the DSI keyboard monosynth. Honestly, I don't remember, but I was pretty convinced at the time.

I don't know because I don't have one, but can a Pro 2 really serve in the place of a Pro One type VCA synthesizer?  The former is an excellent instrument, but I don't see it as a front line analog substitute with a warm raw analog tone.  Folks, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't presently see the Pro 2 in this way.  Otherwise, I would have bought one by now.

The Pro 2 can be many things. I personally never had the impression that the analog waveforms would scream "I'm a digital version of a VCO" at me. I find them pleasant sounding and particularly the sine wave has loads of bottom end. They are stable, but that's what the Slop parameter is for which can be used in a very subtle or wild manner just like the distortion can be used to spice up the sound to variying degrees, not to mention the trillion modulation options. All that and the sequencer as well as the paraphonic features make this a truly unique and utterly powerful monosynth that I regard as more of an Evolver successor than the Prophet 12.

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #397 on: May 03, 2017, 12:28:40 PM »
It's probably worth an excursion to civilization (though I realize that you're probably not that far away) to try one.

I'm really quite happy with mine, though I understand that keybed span might be an issue.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 12:31:30 PM by DavidDever »
Sequential / DSI stuff: Prophet-6 Keyboard, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Split-Eight, Prophet 2000

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #398 on: May 03, 2017, 12:29:11 PM »
There's a good chance I'm going to replace my Little Phatty with Soundmachines Arches when it finally comes out.

Interesting. I didn't pay attention to this one.

Shaw

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #399 on: May 03, 2017, 01:41:44 PM »
The Pro 2 can be many things. I personally never had the impression that the analog waveforms would scream "I'm a digital version of a VCO" at me. I find them pleasant sounding and particularly the sine wave has loads of bottom end. They are stable, but that's what the Slop parameter is for which can be used in a very subtle or wild manner just like the distortion can be used to spice up the sound to variying degrees, not to mention the trillion modulation options. All that and the sequencer as well as the paraphonic features make this a truly unique and utterly powerful monosynth that I regard as more of an Evolver successor than the Prophet 12.
One of my favorite Pro-2 tricks is to modulate the Slop amount with a slow, slewed random LFO... Dial it is as subtle or wild as you want. Gives life to the sound that screams analogue.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa