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Next New DSI Instrument

chysn

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #200 on: January 03, 2017, 10:33:20 AM »
Contrary to all business sense, I don't care for the regular replacing of old instruments with new instruments.  I would much prefer if DSI would perfect and maintain a small number and variety of instruments.

This isn't an unheard-of business plan. Shure has been making the SM58 microphone for 50 years, the Fender Stratocaster has been around since 1954. In the synth realm, Buchla has been making the 259 complex oscillator for at least 35 years. These things change form over time, implement new technologies and manufacturing trends, but remain functionally pretty much the same. It's probably really hard, because they have to adapt to slow supply chain changes over a long period of time, but I think there's a lot to admire about that.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #201 on: January 03, 2017, 10:43:36 AM »
Things like the Alesis Andromeda or Prophet 08...that's the direction DSI should go because one of these days someone else will come along and do it instead.

This is fine music to my ears, but only time will tell.  I think 2017 - and perhaps NAMM itself - will tell us more than merely what synthesizer DSI will offer us next.  I think we will learn the direction the company will be taking in general in the future - whether it be more of the same, or substantially different and innovative.  I may be completely wrong about this - and I hope I am - but the whole Prophet analog poly synth theme seems to be exhausted.  How many variations on a theme can be produced?  So, I would expect to see something quite new this year.

Contrary to all business sense, I don't care for the regular replacing of old instruments with new instruments.  I would much prefer if DSI would perfect and maintain a small number and variety of instruments.  This would include the MK II approach of producing developments of instruments that build on what has already been, improving and expanding on the original foundation.  Oh, for a Prophet '08 MK II with a better keyboard, a few onboard effects, longer envelope times, a high pass filter, and a few other features!  Of course, it's a fact that Dave Smith is not a MK II kind of guy.

But no, things must move on and change must be constant.  This may be good for business and for creating more synth demos, but not for good music.  Regardless, I think NAMM will be a telling event, and 2017 in general.

See I think the Prophet line CAN be expanded but the problem is it's not. Before Sequential took the Prophet and expanded it with a bunch of incarnations...the Prophet 10, Prophet VS, Prophet 2000 etc...so why not now? Like I posted above why not 2 synth engines on one synth? Why not 4? Why not an analog/sampler hybrid? Why not an FM or VS based Prophet? The OB6 to me was absolutely disappointing because it was laziness instead of innovation. I mean it didn't even increase the polyphony from their last synth that had just came out! Come on. It's has nothing to do with having more features..it has to do with having each instrument have it's own identity and I really hope it's not a sign of things to come. I don't need another Prophet 6 with a negligibly different sound. I want something different.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #202 on: January 03, 2017, 10:50:05 AM »
Contrary to all business sense, I don't care for the regular replacing of old instruments with new instruments.  I would much prefer if DSI would perfect and maintain a small number and variety of instruments.

This isn't an unheard-of business plan. Shure has been making the SM58 microphone for 50 years, the Fender Stratocaster has been around since 1954. In the synth realm, Buchla has been making the 259 complex oscillator for at least 35 years. These things change form over time, implement new technologies and manufacturing trends, but remain functionally pretty much the same. It's probably really hard, because they have to adapt to slow supply chain changes over a long period of time, but I think there's a lot to admire about that.

But even Fender Stratocasters have different configurations, different pickups, different necks, different hardware. 3 strats may still be strats but each has it's own purpose and features. Even a keyboard with a different pitch/mod wheel (similar to the OBXa where you could bend the pitch of individual oscillators as opposed to both) would be welcome cause it would be different.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Fender American Stratocaster, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii, Origin Effects Cali76 and SlideRig compressor, ASUS Zenbook Pro Computer, Soundcraft MTK 22 Mixer, Mark Of The Unicorn Digital Performer 10 Software.

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #203 on: January 03, 2017, 11:10:26 AM »
Of course, it's a fact that Dave Smith is not a MK II kind of guy.

Occasionally he is (see Prophet-6). It only takes about 37 years.  ;D

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #204 on: January 03, 2017, 11:30:00 AM »
Of course, it's a fact that Dave Smith is not a MK II kind of guy.

Occasionally he is (see Prophet-6). It only takes about 37 years.  ;D

I guess I never thought of a Prophet-6 as a Prophet 5 MK II.  I would prefer that MK II's be expansions of the original instrument, rather than shrinkings of it.  I suppose the P-6 has some additional features, but the keyboard size is a great disappointment.

I honestly think the Prophet '08 is the exceptional synthesizer in the whole DSI/Sequential line up.  ...What was that?  Oh, my Poly Evolver Keyboard just spat.  Attitude.  Anyways, I do think the Prophet '08 deserves to remain a standard instrument in the DSI catalog, one that is not tossed aside for the latest new synthesizer.  It should be followed by an instrument that is clearly its successor, truly a P'08 MK II.   
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Shaw

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #205 on: January 03, 2017, 11:34:11 AM »
Anyways, I do think the Prophet '08 deserves to remain a standard instrument in the DSI catalog, one that is not tossed aside for the latest new synthesizer. 
You've all but guaranteed a Prophet 16 that is essentially a Prophet 8 x 2 with extra bells and whistles.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #206 on: January 03, 2017, 11:37:43 AM »
Dave Smith said he'd never make a two-manual Prophet '08.  And he also said he'd never make a VCO synth.  :o

A Prophet 16?  I'll have four, please.
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #207 on: January 03, 2017, 11:51:17 AM »
Actually, Shaw, you have a point.  Life at DSI seems to be a numbers game, and a Prophet 16 would be the next natural step.
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #208 on: January 03, 2017, 11:52:09 AM »
See I think the Prophet line CAN be expanded but the problem is it's not. Before Sequential took the Prophet and expanded it with a bunch of incarnations...the Prophet 10, Prophet VS, Prophet 2000 etc...so why not now?

But DSI did release the Prophet '08, the Prophet 12, and the Prophet-6, which are all very different. So it's not really that we haven't seen any Prophet incarnations in the more recent past. Even the Poly Evolver and the MEK have once been advertised (around 2006) as continuing the story of the Prophet-5 and the Pro-One.

Like I posted above why not 2 synth engines on one synth? Why not 4? Why not an analog/sampler hybrid? Why not an FM or VS based Prophet?

While some of that would probably be possible, it has never been part of DSI's philosophy to design one synth that can do it all. Even the ARP Quadra you were referring to earlier wasn't that kind of synth. In fact, it wasn't even a true polyphonic synth like all the Prophets are, since it utilized divide down technology to achieve polyphony like organs, the many string machines, and the Polymoog. Its synth engine was also not immensely powerful. But even if you upgrade all that to today's standards and expectations, you'd probably end up with a quite expensive piece of gear. So from that perspective I do get it if DSI suggests (by their range of products) to simply get the Prophet 12, the Prophet-6, an Evolver, and a Prophet '08 if you want all these aspects combined for example. Of course that's still very different from having it all combined under one roof so to speak. But I assume that if you'd combine 3-4 different engines you might also have to pay at least 2-3 times the price you'd usually pay for one rather specialized synth, especially if analog is involved all along the signal path. And the other risk is that you can also overload a synth's engine, especially if you are forced to rely too much on menu diving in the end.

The OB6 to me was absolutely disappointing because it was laziness instead of innovation. I mean it didn't even increase the polyphony from their last synth that had just came out! Come on. It's has nothing to do with having more features..it has to do with having each instrument have it's own identity and I really hope it's not a sign of things to come. I don't need another Prophet 6 with a negligibly different sound. I want something different.

While the OB-6 was obviously not for you, it was never advertised as the most innovative synth. It was mostly based on a rather spontaneous idea by Dave and Tom. By following through with their idea, they've made the first analog polyphonic Oberheim synth available since the 1980s. And for many players that was already enough, as it introduced variety to the poly synth market and something people were lusting after for years. And that's okay too.

Plus: That each DSI instrument is supposed to have its own identity is no sign of things to come, it has always been that way, ever since the Evolver was introduced. Also: Isn't it in general one instrument's identity that attracts us to a specific synth, a guitar, or whatever instrument?

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #209 on: January 03, 2017, 11:56:04 AM »
One of my favorite advertisements:

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #210 on: January 03, 2017, 11:57:31 AM »
One of my favorite advertisements:

Exactly. That's the one I was referring to.

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #211 on: January 03, 2017, 12:16:17 PM »
My absolutely perfect synthesizer would be a Prophet '08, but with:

- four stereo DCOs
- sixteen voices
- onboard stereo delay and chorus
- high pass resonant filter
- longer attack, delay, and release times in all three envelopes
- higher quality keyboard
- modulation wheels to left of keyboard

This would be my dream synthesizer.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 12:48:03 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #212 on: January 03, 2017, 01:55:42 PM »
That synth sounds perfect to me too, except it would need two LPFs and HPFs per voice, right? Isn't the large part of the expense in the filters?

I'd add that the stereo delay can just be the Prophet 12 delay setup.

Also 16 modulation slots.

Yeah!

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #213 on: January 03, 2017, 02:07:17 PM »
That synth sounds perfect to me too, except it would need two LPFs and HPFs per voice, right? Isn't the large part of the expense in the filters?

It would need twice of everything in the analog signal path, yes. Add to that 64 DCOs.  :o

I'd add that the stereo delay can just be the Prophet 12 delay setup.

Not sure if that's something that can be implemented by just swapping it around, as the Prophet 12 is not based on a true stereo signal path, where everything's hard-wired to the left and the right. On the other hand the delays have been used on the Evolver already (albeit not exactly the same ones), so I guess it wouldn't be a huge problem. One thing to consider though: The delays of the Prophet 12 are not like the effects on the Prophet-6/OB-6, which I think was what Sacred Synthesis had in mind. Instead, they're fully embedded in the modulation matrix.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 02:08:49 PM by Paul Dither »

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #214 on: January 03, 2017, 02:24:48 PM »
By "stereo" I was referring only to the hardwiring of the oscillators to separate channels, as with the Evolver.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #215 on: January 04, 2017, 06:23:01 AM »
As an alternative to stereo oscillators, there is always the Output B option on the Prophet '08's back panel.  With sixteen voices, one could afford to leave the instrument in that configuration, producing an fully stereo eight voice instrument.
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The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #216 on: January 04, 2017, 09:04:39 AM »
As an alternative to stereo oscillators, there is always the Output B option on the Prophet '08's back panel.  With sixteen voices, one could afford to leave the instrument in that configuration, producing an fully stereo eight voice instrument.

If you say "stereo oscillators", does that mean that you originally wanted 4 DCOs on each side or 2x2 like on the Evolver? Only in the latter case, it would already need 64 DCOs and twice as many otherwise.

Compared to that, the Schmidt synthesizer "only" uses 32 DCOs (4x8), albeit they are a bit more complex just as this synth is of course a bit more complex as a whole. With its multitimbrality features (8 times), it certainly comes closest to what LoboLives was getting at - in the analog realm that is.

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #217 on: January 04, 2017, 09:36:07 AM »
As in the Evolver.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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Jason

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Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #218 on: January 04, 2017, 10:03:06 AM »
I've never played an Evolver. Can you make different program changes for each side? In other words, is it essentially a different patch Right side to Left side or the same patch? I'm wondering if there would still be some advantages of having a separate module/synthesizer on each side.

Re: Next New DSI Instrument
« Reply #219 on: January 04, 2017, 10:09:19 AM »
I've never played an Evolver. Can you make different program changes for each side? In other words, is it essentially a different patch Right side to Left side or the same patch? I'm wondering if there would still be some advantages of having a separate module/synthesizer on each side.

No it's not duotimbral along the stereo image. It's just that each kind of oscillator (one analog, one digital) is hard-wired to the left and the right channel and that it has two filters, one for each channel. That is not to be confused with different patches to the left and the right. Everything you adjust on the Evolver takes place within one patch. You can layer sounds on the Poly Evolver, but that has nothing to do with the true stereo signal path.