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Next New Sequential Instrument

jok3r

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1600 on: January 14, 2021, 04:37:11 AM »
Also: No one should take it too personal if Sequential doesn't always release exactly what one had in mind. Such attitudes say more about a user's consumer behavior as opposed to actual musical needs.

I can't even begin to understand why someone should take a company's decision to build this or that personally. If a company is offering something I don't need, I just don't buy it. Simply as that.

Probably everyone has hopes for a specific kind of synth with specific features that would suit him well... and so do I. But I'm also hoping for peace in the whole world, being CO2 neutral and enough living room and food for all humans and animals. Should I take it personal and quit planet earth, because my dreams don't come true? It's just out of hand of a single customer to dictate what companys have to sell. It's in the hand of the many (the market) to make a company build the products that are wanted a lot. And currently there is a market for re-issues.

And I can fully understand that need for "old" synth. I'm in my early thirties now, born at the end of the 80s. The music that influenced me the most is therefore the 70s and 80s music my parents listened to, when I was a child. Until today I did not hear more pleasing and musical synth sounds than those produced by Prophets, Oberheims and Moogs. Unfortunately I'm too young to have had even a chance of buying the originals. And for the obvious and well known reasons I'm not interested in buying an unpredictable 40 years old instrument. I think a lot of younger synthesists have had similar influences and dream of having those synth themselfes.

But it is not only the sound itself, which one could also get with samples or "synth based on" older ones (more or less). It's the whole feeling and experience about playing such an instrument. As I said, I'm struggling between a P6, which does the job pretty well, and a P10. And at the moment I'm tending more towards the P10, because of those big knobs, the wood, the 5 octaves (especially this one, since I'm actually playing it by hand rather than sequencing from elsewhere). Only a new revision of basically the same instruments can give you that. Some modern improvements like aftertouch and velocity, USB and more memory, that don't change the sound engine itself are very welcome, too (I see aftertouch and velocity more as controllers than part of the sound engine).
Prophet Rev2, Novation Peak, Arturia DrumBrute Impact, Korg Kronos 2 88, Kurzweil PC 361, Yamaha S90ES

LPF83

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1601 on: January 14, 2021, 04:44:48 AM »
Well, it seems like being in a different time zone made me coming too late to the party. I still would like to respond to Lobo's last post in a general manner, i.e. without the intention of badmouthing someone who just left the building.

I start with an innocuous topic: The advantage of a reissued vintage synth is that it comes with today's technological advancements, has no immediate maintenance issues, and can be purchased at a lower price (at least when compared to what's being offered on the used market).

As for the accusation that Dave was lying at NAMM (not sure how that was related to the actually existing wavetables in the Pro 3): What Dave usually means by such statements is that Sequential is not a company driven by a market research team. That doesn't necessarily mean that they have to bury their heads in the sand.

And finally about Sequential's instruments and how interesting they are to various users: No company can design products for everyone. If they would try to do so or aim for including every possible feature anybody could ever request, they'd end up with Homer Simpson's infamous car design, plenty of featuritis (can't be vaccinated), and essentially a bad instrument.

Also: No one should take it too personal if Sequential doesn't always release exactly what one had in mind. Such attitudes say more about a user's consumer behavior as opposed to actual musical needs.

An additional thought I would add:

When Dave's company was young, and focused solely on invention and innovation, they did not survive financially due to trends (like influx of inexpensive foreign digital synths) that fluctuate faster than a small company respond to. 

Personally I believe Dave still would prefer to innovate rather than reissue, but the thing is he is a MUCH wiser businessman than he was in the 80s.  He knows that the demand for vintage synths has been trending upward for a long time now, and by the nature of what it is, the trajectory is unlike to change anytime soon -- its possible that its peaking now, but even if so its unlikely to trend downward any time soon. 

From a business perspective, this means that reissues of classics like the P5/10, OBX, or Pro One can provide a long-term revenue stream that is unlikely to get knocked aside by "the latest and greatest" from another vendor anytime soon.   Assuming the interest vintage synths continues, these can provide stable capital to pursue his real dream of innovation.

I'm not pretending to know if that's Dave's actual strategy, just pointing out that it would make crystal clear sense if it were, based on what he's said in the past about reissues not being his true passion.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 04:46:22 AM by LPF83 »
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

LPF83

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1602 on: January 14, 2021, 05:30:55 AM »
One other thing :) I think weíre very lucky to be living in an age where synths are plentiful and relatively affordable. I was born in 1961 and throughout my younger years from when I first noticed a synth sound in about 1969 I would lust after a synthesizer but with the knowledge that I could never afford to buy one as the prices were always so high. These days you can buy a whole lorry load of synths for the price that a single one might have cost back then !

This is part of the appeal of reissues to me.  A Prophet 5 was so far out of reach for me financially when it was a "new innovation" that I didn't spend time lusting after it, it just wasn't happening.  So, for someone like me, the reissue is a dream come true -- being able to afford such an instrument brand new is a different feeling that buying one that's already been played hard over many decades... not that there is anything wrong with the latter, but buying a 40 year old synth (as cool as it is), to me does not represent a complete "full circle" recreation of that original dream that was once out of reach.

So for some of us, there is something nostalgically important to a reissue such as the P5/P10.  I understand why some younger folks may not understand the nostalgic connection now -- but I can almost promise they will one day, even if it is in the context of a different instrument.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

jg666

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1603 on: January 14, 2021, 05:40:05 AM »
One other thing :) I think weíre very lucky to be living in an age where synths are plentiful and relatively affordable. I was born in 1961 and throughout my younger years from when I first noticed a synth sound in about 1969 I would lust after a synthesizer but with the knowledge that I could never afford to buy one as the prices were always so high. These days you can buy a whole lorry load of synths for the price that a single one might have cost back then !

This is part of the appeal of reissues to me.  A Prophet 5 was so far out of reach for me financially when it was a "new innovation" that I didn't spend time lusting after it, it just wasn't happening.  So, for someone like me, the reissue is a dream come true -- being able to afford such an instrument brand new is a different feeling that buying one that's already been played hard over many decades... not that there is anything wrong with the latter, but buying a 40 year old synth (as cool as it is), to me does not represent a complete "full circle" recreation of that original dream that was once out of reach.

So for some of us, there is something nostalgically important to a reissue such as the P5/P10.  I understand why some younger folks may not understand the nostalgic connection now -- but I can almost promise they will one day, even if it is in the context of a different instrument.

Yes agree with you completely there :)

Personally, I trust people like Dave Smith to do the right thing to make sure that their company survives as having all these 'smaller' synth producers is vital in my opinion. If that means that these companies produce things I'm not really interested in, then so be it.... they're not in business just to please me  ;D

DSI Prophet Rev2, DSI Pro 2, Moog Sub37, Korg Minilogue, Yamaha MOXF6, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Montage6

chysn

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1604 on: January 14, 2021, 05:43:58 AM »
Also: No one should take it too personal if Sequential doesn't always release exactly what one had in mind. Such attitudes say more about a user's consumer behavior as opposed to actual musical needs.

I can't even begin to understand why someone should take a company's decision to build this or that personally. If a company is offering something I don't need, I just don't buy it. Simply as that.

I waited five years for the Pro 3. I had to sit through the end of the Mopho SE, the introduction of the AS-1, and the entire product life cycle of the Pro 2. That's just the way it goes sometimes.

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From a business perspective, this means that reissues of classics like the P5/10, OBX, or Pro One can provide a long-term revenue stream that is unlikely to get knocked aside by "the latest and greatest" from another vendor anytime soon.

Does this forum think there's a realistic chance that Sequential will re-issue the Pro One? That would be pretty awesome, actually.
Pro 3

Previous: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01, DSM03
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2, Serum, Pianoteq
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

LPF83

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1605 on: January 14, 2021, 07:07:26 AM »
Does this forum think there's a realistic chance that Sequential will re-issue the Pro One? That would be pretty awesome, actually.

I'd love it if they did but I can think of at least one reason why they wouldn't -- they already collaborated with Pioneer with the Toraiz AS-1 and may have some sort of contractual obligation / limitation that relates to it.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

LoboLives

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1606 on: January 14, 2021, 10:17:43 AM »
Just wanted to clear a few things up.

My leaving actually has nothing to do with Sequential or Dave or the trajectory in which the company seems to be going nor even the differences of opinion.

The ďlie detectorĒ remark was a Maury reference and was written with humour and not malice.

The reason why I left is because over the past year my mental health has deteriorated significantly and Iíve been struggling badly with depression and bi polar (which my father had and sadly runs in my family) Iíve separated with my partner of ten years, my motherís health has gone down significantly since my father died. My city just went into another lockdown and possible curfew and as you can see from my past few posts, itís caused me to unfortunately lash out and I do apologize for that. I try to avoid social media and a lot of times I come to these forums just for human interaction that doesnít break down into foolish arguments and while I usually shrug things off Iíve found there are certain remarks made by some on here that seem like either an indirect or direct personal attack and unfortunately itís just made my mental health worse.

In short the reason Iím leaving is simply because itís not fair for me to lash out on you or for anyone on this forum to be subject to my mental health issues. I respect you all too much for that.  I have created an alternative account that will simply be used to obtain the latest OS downloads but I think maybe itís best that until lockdown is over or perhaps until Sequential do something of interest to me, I donít partake in these forums. This is simply goodbye for now, not goodbye forever.

P.S. The Two Voice Pro wasnít a Two Voice reissue, it was a successor.

A Thousand Eyes

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1607 on: January 14, 2021, 10:34:39 AM »
Honestly you jump to conclusions without solid enough evidence far too hastily, but other than that you add nicely to the conversation. This forum would be a much more dull place without ya. Although sometimes taking time off is a good thing and I do it constantly only to realize I need it for updates, which gets me sucked right back in. Other than the Tempest section, this is probably the most civil discussion board I've been on.

P.S. If the TVP is a "successor" by adding a few new things, then so is the rev 4. Personally I don't consider that a valid argument as that's the exact excuse these cloning companies (that don't even give due credit) make.

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1608 on: January 14, 2021, 11:38:16 AM »
Just wanted to clear a few things up.

My leaving actually has nothing to do with Sequential or Dave or the trajectory in which the company seems to be going nor even the differences of opinion.

The ďlie detectorĒ remark was a Maury reference and was written with humour and not malice.

The reason why I left is because over the past year my mental health has deteriorated significantly and Iíve been struggling badly with depression and bi polar (which my father had and sadly runs in my family) Iíve separated with my partner of ten years, my motherís health has gone down significantly since my father died. My city just went into another lockdown and possible curfew and as you can see from my past few posts, itís caused me to unfortunately lash out and I do apologize for that. I try to avoid social media and a lot of times I come to these forums just for human interaction that doesnít break down into foolish arguments and while I usually shrug things off Iíve found there are certain remarks made by some on here that seem like either an indirect or direct personal attack and unfortunately itís just made my mental health worse.

In short the reason Iím leaving is simply because itís not fair for me to lash out on you or for anyone on this forum to be subject to my mental health issues. I respect you all too much for that.  I have created an alternative account that will simply be used to obtain the latest OS downloads but I think maybe itís best that until lockdown is over or perhaps until Sequential do something of interest to me, I donít partake in these forums. This is simply goodbye for now, not goodbye forever.

P.S. The Two Voice Pro wasnít a Two Voice reissue, it was a successor.

Look after yourself there, I know from personal experience how things can get to people and effect the way they act. The thing to remember is things change again over time.


LPF83

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1609 on: January 14, 2021, 02:00:48 PM »
Just wanted to clear a few things up.

My leaving actually has nothing to do with Sequential or Dave or the trajectory in which the company seems to be going nor even the differences of opinion.

The ďlie detectorĒ remark was a Maury reference and was written with humour and not malice.

The reason why I left is because over the past year my mental health has deteriorated significantly and Iíve been struggling badly with depression and bi polar (which my father had and sadly runs in my family) Iíve separated with my partner of ten years, my motherís health has gone down significantly since my father died. My city just went into another lockdown and possible curfew and as you can see from my past few posts, itís caused me to unfortunately lash out and I do apologize for that. I try to avoid social media and a lot of times I come to these forums just for human interaction that doesnít break down into foolish arguments and while I usually shrug things off Iíve found there are certain remarks made by some on here that seem like either an indirect or direct personal attack and unfortunately itís just made my mental health worse.

In short the reason Iím leaving is simply because itís not fair for me to lash out on you or for anyone on this forum to be subject to my mental health issues. I respect you all too much for that.  I have created an alternative account that will simply be used to obtain the latest OS downloads but I think maybe itís best that until lockdown is over or perhaps until Sequential do something of interest to me, I donít partake in these forums. This is simply goodbye for now, not goodbye forever.

P.S. The Two Voice Pro wasnít a Two Voice reissue, it was a successor.

Everything in the world is kind of broken right now, and it only compounds life's normal stresses, which is sounds like you've had a run of recently.  My long-time girlfriend's having a hard time with her family member's health issues, and its taking a toll on both her and me.  My music room is where I find myself going for my self-directed therapy, and where I want to spend my free time right now.

I enjoy reading your opinions on things even if I don't always agree with them... and as all of this is being discussed, I do want to say I hope that I --or more specifically my initial post about the OBX --wasn't the catalyst of bad things.  I go out of my way to avoid forum wars (or even civil discussions that start to show signs of going nowhere).

So, I hope you'll return when feeling better.

 
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1610 on: January 14, 2021, 02:35:45 PM »
Lobolives, I understand your health issues and the added stress of the times.  It's more than enough to push us all over the edge.  But I was struck by your post late last night, and felt responsible to try to tone things down a bit.  Believe me, I responded to your remarks in the most restrained way I could, and edited my comments many times to remove all traces of heat. 

I hope you'll forget about this little incident, and continue with the forum at your normal level of involvement.  Peace. 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 03:08:24 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1611 on: January 15, 2021, 09:25:11 AM »
If that's the case then I think it's safe to say that Uli is dictating what Sequential do more so than Dave Smith.

I'm sure it's a factor.  But if an OBX announcement preemptively dilutes interest in the "UBXa", then good for Dave.  I'm no fan of the Uli.

Except the OBXA isn't the same as an OBX.

In fact most of the popular Oberheim sounds came from an OBXa which was Curtis based and Bi-Timbral....so doing a monotimbral SEM based poly synth....well.....saves me money.

If one can't do 1984 on an Oberheim Poly Synth then GTFO.

For me, buying a hardware synth only to replicate a specific sound on a specific record would be missing the point.  I'm interested in capturing the soul and vibe of a particular instrument, while creating new stuff.   Lots of synths can play "Jump" convincingly enough.  And as iconic as the 1984 album is, I don't really consider it as a pillar of the type of sound I want to create.

The OBX seems to be generally regarded as the "better sounding" (more character, more aggressive) of the two, and because the OBXa doesn't have poly mod, given a choice I think a lot of folks would prefer the OBX.

Besides, if we can have a filter switch in the Prophet 5/10 to toggle between the two revision types, it is fully reasonable to expect that Dave might put a switch in the new product to flip between OBX and OBXa filters.

Yep, I was thinking the exact same thing about the filter revision. If they do it, Iíd imagine theyíd put both in.

They are working on two new synths. Iím guessing OB and some kind of poly Pro 3/P12 thing.

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1612 on: January 16, 2021, 03:21:56 PM »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1613 on: January 28, 2021, 02:26:54 AM »


They are working on two new synths. Iím guessing OB and some kind of poly Pro 3/P12 thing.
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A poly pro3/prophet 12 thing is the only way I would sell my pro3 and hydra but honestly, Iíd sell them in a heartbeat for a sequential poly synth that had the pro3 filters, wavetables, effects and modulation.
I would even be willing to live without a complex sequencer Or VCOs (although Iíd like them) as long as it still had the three analog Filters and analog envelopes of the pro3.
OB6, REV2, PRO 3, AS-, MOOG MINITAUR, ELEKTRON ANALOG RYTM

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1614 on: January 28, 2021, 07:30:24 AM »
Yes, a polyphonic version of the Pro 3 would be an instant winner, especially if they could keep it under $3,000.  And it seems impossible that Sequential would not produce it, the instrument is so obvious.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 07:32:26 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

timborťale

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1615 on: January 28, 2021, 07:39:08 AM »
I would cry a little, having just bought a P12, but them's the breaks I guess.
Rev2-16, Prophet 12 Keyboard, Nords, etc...

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1616 on: January 28, 2021, 07:55:02 AM »
The digital oscilator on the pro 3 is so close to the analog ones i hope if we get a poly pro3 they go with a digital front end like the p12 but using the pro3 digital oscilators, similar to the summit from novation but with the sequential sound, Sort of a more hifi sounding p12,
 
Digital oscilators are so much more flexable with fm and wavetables and i think the one in the Pro 3 is a step up from the p12/pro2 ones

A Thousand Eyes

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1617 on: January 28, 2021, 08:50:32 AM »
Digital oscilators are so much more flexable with fm and wavetables and i think the one in the Pro 3 is a step up from the p12/pro2 ones

Agreed. From my experience with the PX, Sequential's newer digital oscillators are up there with Novation's Oxford FPGAs and much better than the digital oscillators in Roland's JX/Xm, Nord Lead, Access Virus, etc. I can only imagine how good they would sound if they were FPGAs in a P12 rev2. As you said, digital oscillators are much more flexible. Also, I don't need a bunch of filters as that would lower the voice count and higher the cost. Just give the best of the best, which is the SSI2140. I think a 12db switch (along with the 24db ofc) is possible if I remember correctly and also add the option for low end loss compensation for resonance like Sequential did with the 2144 on the PX.   

I don't want the jack of all trades, master of nothing. If one wants the best analog front-end, then go with a P5/10. If one wants the best digital front-end synth, let's hope for a P12 successor.

LPF83

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Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1618 on: January 28, 2021, 09:11:46 AM »
I don't want the jack of all trades, master of nothing. If one wants the best analog front-end, then go with a P5/10. If one wants the best digital front-end synth, let's hope for a P12 successor.

I'd like to see it personally, but because of the relatively low cost at which FM and wavetable synths can be produced, I wonder if the emerging products we see currently (more of which will no doubt follow) wont create a glut in the market that will cause Dave to want to focus on analog, an area he's clearly doing better than anyone else.
Prophet 10, Prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 12m, Prophet Rev2-16, Moog SlimPhatty, Korg Minilogue XDm, Roland SPD-30, Roland SPD-SX Special Edition, Roland KT-10, Maschine, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen + Octopre, Strymon Pedals, Cubase Pro 10.5.

A Thousand Eyes

Re: Next New Sequential Instrument
« Reply #1619 on: January 28, 2021, 09:27:53 AM »
There's just as much if not more a glut of cheap analog synths on the market, especially if these poly knock-offs actually start to see the light of day. Also, Sequential is an island onto itself. All they're going to do by sticking to purely analog synths is cannibalize their own market with such a single focused line-up.