Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion

Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« on: March 16, 2017, 02:14:57 AM »
Seeing as though we can't reply to the new OS sticky at the top of the forum, I figured we could use this to discuss everyone's experiences.

Has anyone installed it yet? I'll try tonight.

Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2017, 10:10:12 AM »
I tried to sequence the Pro 2 with my Octatrack using the new Beta 1.2.2.8. The Pro 2 doesn't get hung notes in exactly the same way as the OS 1.2 release. It seems to miss the note off message from the Octatrack and never stops playing the note. For example, I can send a single short duration note via MIDI cable from the Octatrack (no MIDI clock or anything else) and the note never stops playing. I can play a lower priority note on the Pro 2 keyboard and you hear it but then it goes back to the original note that seems to have infinite length.

I reverted back to the OS 1.1 release and all is well between Octatrack & Pro 2. My Tempest doesn't seem to have problems with the Octatrack for single notes or chords where I have used the OS 1.4 and up.

Please note I used a single MIDI cable to run these tests removing my MIDI merge and thru devices.

cbmd

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Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 11:04:05 AM »
Hi Mtruman,

We have received reports from other Octatrack users regarding the hung notes issue and we have investigated hung notes using other MIDI devices to send MIDI note data to the Pro 2.

I've just checked a Pro 2 with the latest OS triggered from Ableton Live and other hardware sources.  I did encounter a hung note when triggering the Pro 2 from Ableton.  However, when I inspected the MIDI stream being sent to the Pro 2, I noticed that no note off message was sent for the hung note.

I was unable to get hung notes from other MIDI sources.  Given the observed behavior and the number of hung notes reports from Octatrack users, I would bet that the hung notes are related to something specific to the OT.

If you are able to easily replicate the issue, would you please use a MIDI monitoring application to check the MIDI stream sent to the Pro 2?  This will help us to potentially identify the reason that the Pro 2 is getting hung notes from the OT.
Sequential

dslsynth

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Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 02:26:01 PM »
Given the observed behavior and the number of hung notes reports from Octatrack users, I would bet that the hung notes are related to something specific to the OT.

Said in another way: "someone" gotta inspect the MIDI output from Octatrack to track down the hung note problem.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 02:37:16 PM »
Hi. Thanks for responding so quickly. I have run a further test for you that will hopefully narrow down what the issue is.

1. Pro 2 is loaded with your beta OS 1.2.2.8 set to receive on MIDI channel 12

2. Octatrack has latest release 1.25H connected to the Pro 2 with a single MIDI cable

3. I programmed a simple sequence into the Octatrack. Four 1/16 notes spaced 1/4 note apart. Sequence loops forever.

4. Pro 2 is initialized with the Basic Patch

5. When the Octatrack outputs only the notes over MIDI, the Pro 2 sounds as expected.

6. When I have the Octatrack output the MIDI clock with the notes the Pro 2 starts to get hung up. Sometimes it recovers for a short while and sometimes not.

7. As soon as I turn off the MIDI clock output in the Octatrack, the Pro 2 sounds normal.

8. I captured all of this by repeating the test going from Octatrack to MIDI cable to MOTU AVB to USB to MacBook.

The output of the following MIDI monitor was captured using the following command:

"receivemidi dev "UltraLite AVB MIDI In" ts voice note on off sr clock start stop continue rst tc > octatrackoutput.txt"

The text file is attached.

Please let me know if you need more information.

Regards,

Michael


cbmd

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Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 02:46:05 PM »
Hi Michael,

Thanks for the notes, I'll look into this a bit further.  I do have couple quick questions though...

In your initial post you stated that MIDI notes would hang with no clock sent to the Pro 2.  In this last post you stated that turning clock off caused the Pro 2 to not get hung notes.

Could you clarify these statements?
Sequential

Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 03:00:49 PM »
I would say that I am very sure of my last post in that the hung notes for the Beta OS only occur when there is MIDI clock in the channel. I let the sequence play and turn the MIDI clock on while it it playing. The hung notes start immediately after I turn on the MIDI clock. I was also watching the MIDI monitor at the same time. I reverted back to OS 1.1 and I can not recreate the issue using the same test.

OS 1.1 is can be sequenced externally with MIDI clock without any issues that I am aware of.

So, I would say that I am not 100% sure of my initial comment that no MIDI clock was in the stream since I did not have a MIDI monitor setup. I was probably incorrect in saying this.

cbmd

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Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 06:34:34 PM »
Thanks for confirming that.  We replicated and have fixed the issue.  We should have a new BETA available shortly.
Sequential

cbmd

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Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2017, 06:39:24 PM »
Sequential

Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 11:44:48 PM »
I guess it's a "feature" not a "bug" since my OB-6 does the same thing. But with Local Control turned off on the Pro-2, you cannot change patches from the front panel. Actually, the indicated patch number WILL change, but the actual patch will not. This is particularly problematic if you want to control the Pro-2 with another keyboard connected to your DAW, since there is no way to change patches on the Pro-2 short of sending MIDI program changes messages from your DAW. The fact this "bug" has existed for so many years, and has not been fixed here, makes me assume DSI considers this to be OK? I suppose, in a Draconian sort of way, it makes sense -- except that none of my other synths have behaved this way over the years.

Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2017, 03:00:11 AM »
From the changelog: "NOTE: Reset globals or enable the screen saver global after installing this OS unless you absolutely do not want it on to save your OLED lifespan"

I still have an issue that the screensaver does not work when receiving MIDI-clock. As soon as the clock start the display turns on and stays on even if nothing else is sent to it. As soon as clock stops the screensaver works as expected.
I understand that other MIDI messages should activate the screen but clock should not and since you advertise the feature of the screensaver as needed it should work. Hope this can be sorted.

Edit to add: This started somewhere around the early 1.2 betas. It worked on OS 1.1.

mosen

Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 03:05:35 AM »
Installed the new Beta without Problems

2 questions came up:

- how does the Paraphonic sequencer work?
- why does the sequencer does not start on 1, when slaved to a midi clock which transmits start/stop clock infos?

anyone?!

Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2017, 04:36:16 AM »
Hi. Thank you for posting an update so quickly. The 1.2.3.0 Beta works with the Octatrack.

Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2017, 05:39:29 AM »
I guess it's a "feature" not a "bug" since my OB-6 does the same thing. But with Local Control turned off on the Pro-2, you cannot change patches from the front panel. Actually, the indicated patch number WILL change, but the actual patch will not. This is particularly problematic if you want to control the Pro-2 with another keyboard connected to your DAW, since there is no way to change patches on the Pro-2 short of sending MIDI program changes messages from your DAW. The fact this "bug" has existed for so many years, and has not been fixed here, makes me assume DSI considers this to be OK? I suppose, in a Draconian sort of way, it makes sense -- except that none of my other synths have behaved this way over the years.

I'd be interested to know if this is expected behaviour too.
Created new thread for firmware 1.2.3.0 discussion to avoid any confusion here by the way:

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1235.new.html#new

Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 05:45:11 AM by binman_uk »

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Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2017, 08:51:38 AM »
I guess it's a "feature" not a "bug" since my OB-6 does the same thing. But with Local Control turned off on the Pro-2, you cannot change patches from the front panel. Actually, the indicated patch number WILL change, but the actual patch will not. This is particularly problematic if you want to control the Pro-2 with another keyboard connected to your DAW, since there is no way to change patches on the Pro-2 short of sending MIDI program changes messages from your DAW. The fact this "bug" has existed for so many years, and has not been fixed here, makes me assume DSI considers this to be OK? I suppose, in a Draconian sort of way, it makes sense -- except that none of my other synths have behaved this way over the years.

Hi Ultrasomething,

This is the expected behavior of a synth when Local Control is off.  As per the MIDI 1.0 specification "When Local Control is Off, all devices on a given channel will respond only to data received over MIDI. Played data, etc. will be ignored. Local Control On restores the functions of the normal controllers."

Given the case you described, you would pass the MIDI output data from the Pro 2 through the DAW and back to the Pro 2 while also passing MIDI data from your other key board controller to it.
Sequential

cbmd

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Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2017, 09:01:56 AM »
Installed the new Beta without Problems

2 questions came up:

- how does the Paraphonic sequencer work?
- why does the sequencer does not start on 1, when slaved to a midi clock which transmits start/stop clock infos?

anyone?!

You can use the paraphonic recording mode by setting the KEYMODE to PARAPHONIC and then setting the sequencer mode in the MISC SEQ screen to PARAPHONIC.

I'm not in front of a Pro 2 right now, but I would guess that when sequencer RESTART is on, the sequencer is not being reset to the first step when a MIDI STOP command is received. 
Sequential

cbmd

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Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2017, 09:04:28 AM »
Hi. Thank you for posting an update so quickly. The 1.2.3.0 Beta works with the Octatrack.

Glad to hear it!  :D
Sequential

Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2017, 09:10:41 AM »
Sorry to pee on the parade, and I didn't try the beta so far, but I am a bit disappointed by the very limited set of new features. Is it final at this oint or can we expect something else ?

Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2017, 09:31:30 AM »
Hi Ultrasomething,

This is the expected behavior of a synth when Local Control is off.

CBMD:

Thanks for clarifying the company interpretation. And yes, I’m using the word “interpretation” with tongue-in-cheek, given that Dave is the progenitor and all.  ;)

While this is obviously the intent of the feature (and Dave would certainly know), it’s always been a bit of a grey area for others — as I said, exactly how draconian does one need to be in their interpretation of what should and should not fall under local control’s control? Many products have assumed the need to change patches locally removes it from the local control jurisdiction.

DSI, itself, removes some parameters from this jurisdiction — Coarse Tuning for example.

Obviously, it’s the company’s prerogative to draw this line wherever they want, and I appreciate knowing that this performance is the company’s intent, though I do prefer using products that allow patch changes with Local Control turned off.

Might I suggest, because of your Local Control implementation that DSI products all provide a much easier means of turning Local Control on and off. Because of your implementation (and the needs of my studio), I turn LC on/off numerous times in a day, so having it buried in a menu is a bit tedious. If your products could offer a hidden button-combo that allowed power users to enable/disable Local Control that would be of huge benefit.

For example, holding PROGRAM and pressing one of the four “soft” buttons beneath the display could serve as a quick menu-less way to turn Local Control on/off… that way, DSI maintains spec purity, while the product gain usability. Win/Win.

Thanks.

Re: Pro 2 BETA OS 1.2.2.8 - Discussion
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2017, 10:47:40 AM »
Hi Ultrasomething,

This is the expected behavior of a synth when Local Control is off.

CBMD:

Thanks for clarifying the company interpretation. And yes, I’m using the word “interpretation” with tongue-in-cheek, given that Dave is the progenitor and all.  ;)

While this is obviously the intent of the feature (and Dave would certainly know), it’s always been a bit of a grey area for others — as I said, exactly how draconian does one need to be in their interpretation of what should and should not fall under local control’s control? Many products have assumed the need to change patches locally removes it from the local control jurisdiction.

DSI, itself, removes some parameters from this jurisdiction — Coarse Tuning for example.

Obviously, it’s the company’s prerogative to draw this line wherever they want, and I appreciate knowing that this performance is the company’s intent, though I do prefer using products that allow patch changes with Local Control turned off.

Might I suggest, because of your Local Control implementation that DSI products all provide a much easier means of turning Local Control on and off. Because of your implementation (and the needs of my studio), I turn LC on/off numerous times in a day, so having it buried in a menu is a bit tedious. If your products could offer a hidden button-combo that allowed power users to enable/disable Local Control that would be of huge benefit.

For example, holding PROGRAM and pressing one of the four “soft” buttons beneath the display could serve as a quick menu-less way to turn Local Control on/off… that way, DSI maintains spec purity, while the product gain usability. Win/Win.

Thanks.

I suggest using NRPN 1035 to turn Local Control on an off remotely.
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