Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!

LucidSFX

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Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« on: March 07, 2017, 04:04:52 PM »
Roger, I hope you are still reading the forum. I can't for the life of me understand why the LFO sync drift issue wasn't included in the final release. Please try to convince DSI to fix this one major flaw then development can be put to rest.

It would have been best for Dave to have first explained to us so that we can have given him our number one priority of the to do list. I am trust everyone can agree that LFO drift is not a fun quirk of the machine which makes it unique etc...it's a train wreck. Surely you and DSI can see this for what it is. I have run my share of large scale business' (real estate industry and not as prolific as yours or DSI) and I am acutely aware of the strain this project has put on DSI. However, to have gone so far and miss the mark is terribly unfortunate.

I realise that there are many hear that flame on by criticizing DSI in less than polite words but it must be recognized that the user base has a cult-like fanaticism about the Tempest and that can only be good for DSI in the long run.

If I was in DSI shoes, I would fix this issue then push for a 2nd editorial on DSI in Sound on Sound (industry magazines etc.) showcasing the latest features of the Tempest and include comments reflecting on DSI support since the release. You both will stand out as purists focused on innovative tech (not so hard for you Roger). Couple that with a social media blitz showcasing music made solely with the Tempest (my track on sound cloud "Carnival Reboot" had over 1700 plays after DSI reposted it. Ok it didn't go platinum but with enough online marketing and content this will put orders back on track. Think about, most companies boast HYPE with little substance. The hype on the Tempest would be legitimate...something our industry hasn't seen in many years.

Right now the average user goes to the music shop and is told that there are issue with the Tempest. I was one of them. The demo videos are terrible and most of the reviews and forum groups (ex: gearslutz) gripe about old issues which were resolved. I bought it regardless of what I heard and read since I was able to return within 90 days without penalty...but this environment surely has a negative impact on sales and I am positive that I am not the only one out there that has experienced this. I even get back talk from those who bought inferior drum machines not knowing what this beast can actually do to the cited reasons above. Wouldn't it be better to invest a little more to fix and market this machine as V2 than try to deliver on a new concept?

Anyway, you have been a gentleman responding directly to our requests and I thank-you for all that you have done for us and the music industry. I only hope that you agree with us and that DSI will listen to reason. It will great to hear some good news!

Sincerely
GP


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RobH

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Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2017, 08:06:35 PM »
Does it only drift if you sync it up?

cbmd

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Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 08:27:17 PM »
It's also good to note that you must assign the sound to a voice if you wish to use the BEAT and PLAY LFO reset modes.  If the sound is not assigned to a voice, then the LFO will jump as the sound uses the voice allocation algorithm across multiple  voices.
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Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2017, 02:29:01 AM »
Ahh!There's that voice allocation thing again...Thanks for clearing this up Carson ;)
It's also good to note that you must assign the sound to a voice if you wish to use the BEAT and PLAY LFO reset modes.  If the sound is not assigned to a voice, then the LFO will jump as the sound uses the voice allocation algorithm across multiple  voices.

Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2017, 05:32:37 AM »
It's also good to note that you must assign the sound to a voice if you wish to use the BEAT and PLAY LFO reset modes.  If the sound is not assigned to a voice, then the LFO will jump as the sound uses the voice allocation algorithm across multiple  voices.

Yeah, but I don't think we're really talking about this.

Even if assigned to a voice the supposed sync of a 'free running' LFO drifts over time, eventually going way off and making it useless for anything where its not getting reset every few bars or so.

And it's not entirely in sync to start with either!

Free running, synced LFOs are in the original manual so it's not a 'feature request' but a very nasty bug.
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Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2017, 06:09:04 AM »
Even if assigned to a voice the supposed sync of a 'free running' LFO drifts over time, eventually going way off and making it useless for anything where its not getting reset every few bars or so.

I'm curious what the use case would be on a drum machine for a sound with a LFO that runs more than a few bars?

Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2017, 06:23:55 AM »
Even if assigned to a voice the supposed sync of a 'free running' LFO drifts over time, eventually going way off and making it useless for anything where its not getting reset every few bars or so.

I'm curious what the use case would be on a drum machine for a sound with a LFO that runs more than a few bars?

Aside from the fact that Tempest is far more than just a drum machine I frequently use synced LFOs to produce a pattern that runs for a bar or more (filter sweep, whatever) - and the problem is also apparent on much shorter loops.

The only restart options are 'beat', 'note' or 'play'. I'm pretty sure (from memory) that 'beat' doesn't actually restart when the beat restarts, rather when the beat is changed, so even if you have an LFO thats running a couple of quarter notes or something it'll get out of sync pretty quickly if your beat is looping. In fact the issue is probably *more* apparent on shorter LFO cycles.

If there was another restart option - 'loop' or something that reset when the beat loops it may be less of an issue but that's still a hack - as I've mentioned in the other thread the LFOs aren't actually 'dead on' sync even to start with.
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dslsynth

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Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2017, 07:27:32 AM »
Free running, synced LFOs are in the original manual so it's not a 'feature request' but a very nasty bug.

Well, it seems that not everyone agrees with what Dave said:
"While there are still some minor bugs remaining, we’ve addressed the bugs affecting the Tempest’s essential operation and feel that it is stable, reliable, ..."
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RobH

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Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2017, 10:54:55 AM »
Just let me get this straight there is no problem if i dont sync the lfo right?

Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2017, 05:09:10 AM »
Just let me get this straight there is no problem if i dont sync the lfo right?

Erm - no. If you don't set it to sync then drifting out of sync isn't an issue(!)
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Stoss

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Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 01:22:27 PM »
Tested and confirmed the LFO sync is way off. I'll just assume this is "expected behavior" and reflects the quality that should be expected from DSI... unless Carson wants to chime in here and disagree.

The weird thing is, just like the Glide FixRate A & Glide FixTime A, The LFO Sync used to work. Alas... one cannot expect everything in the manual to work as described. We as consumers must at some point be reasonable.

smak

Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2017, 02:42:05 AM »
+1 Really needs to be fixed!  This bug/feature makes it impossible to use LFOs for synced rythmic patterns related to the beats BPM.

Unbelivable, that you can not use synced LFO's  on this drum-maschine which costs over 2K.

blewis

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Re: Roger Linn - One Final Push for LFO Sync Drift Correction!!
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2017, 07:47:24 PM »
When did it break?

There was an OS like 1.3 a long time ago when the free running LFO was added and things went crazy, but after that it seemed to be working again.  I thought free running was added in Main OS 1.3.2.3.  Then it went a bit crazy and was fixed in Main OS 1.3.3.3?

Did it re-break sometime in 1.4.x?  I have some beats that depend on sync behavior and they were totally broken between 1.3.2.3 and 1.3.3.3.  Was there a regression in behavior?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 07:50:31 PM by blewis »