My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question

RobH

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My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« on: March 02, 2017, 11:49:39 AM »
I have a bass sound running on A16 and anoter synth sound on A9, both play together and everything is fine, until i roll something then for some reason my A16 bass line stops and i have no idea why, if i roll my sample only kick it stops, if i roll a hat it stops and i cant figure out why???? My synth sound on A9 doesnt mute though which confuses me, if i copy the sound+events from A16 to A15 it still mutes, if i mute A9 and roll (so its not voice stealing) the A16 bass mutes... Am i missing something here?? thanks

Also is it possible to copy a sound and its notes from one beat to another?? I can copy a sound ok but i cannot copy a sound and its note events from one beat to another is there any way to do this or a workaround solution???

Thanks
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 11:53:39 AM by RobH »

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2017, 03:56:07 PM »
I have a bass sound running on A16 and anoter synth sound on A9, both play together and everything is fine, until i roll something then for some reason my A16 bass line stops and i have no idea why, if i roll my sample only kick it stops, if i roll a hat it stops and i cant figure out why???? My synth sound on A9 doesnt mute though which confuses me, if i copy the sound+events from A16 to A15 it still mutes, if i mute A9 and roll (so its not voice stealing) the A16 bass mutes... Am i missing something here?? thanks

First thing would be to check your "choke" and voice assignment settings for each of the sounds that are giving you grief...

Cheers!

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 04:09:10 PM »
Not possible,no workaround...
Also is it possible to copy a sound and its notes from one beat to another?? I can copy a sound ok but i cannot copy a sound and its note events from one beat to another is there any way to do this or a workaround solution???

Thanks

RobH

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Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2017, 10:29:25 AM »
Edit - Ok so i've got a little further with what is going on, somehow the bassline (whichever pad i assign it to) is getting rolled instead of just playing through the bassline, every other drumsound that i am not rolling plays through its note events fine, its just this one sound on the bassline, this is why i think its dissapearing because when i roll (any other drum) in 16ths i cant hear it but when i tried rolling (any other drum) in 4th some of the bassline begins to play then it kind of skips and rolls a bit when im rolling any other drumsound, no chokes or voices are assigned anywhere, im at a complete loss please help me!!!

https://youtu.be/jMOCjRui0To here is a quick video



Also thanks for the answer about the copy, any chance it will ever be added? Seems a little bizzare you can't copy the note events from one beats pad to anothers?


« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 11:31:24 AM by RobH »

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2017, 03:24:53 PM »
Edit - Ok so i've got a little further with what is going on, somehow the bassline (whichever pad i assign it to) is getting rolled instead of just playing through the bassline, every other drumsound that i am not rolling plays through its note events fine, its just this one sound on the bassline, this is why i think its dissapearing because when i roll (any other drum) in 16ths i cant hear it but when i tried rolling (any other drum) in 4th some of the bassline begins to play then it kind of skips and rolls a bit when im rolling any other drumsound, no chokes or voices are assigned anywhere, im at a complete loss please help me!!!

https://youtu.be/jMOCjRui0To here is a quick video



Also thanks for the answer about the copy, any chance it will ever be added? Seems a little bizzare you can't copy the note events from one beats pad to anothers?

What operating system are you running, Rob?  I'd have to go back through my notes, but I feel as though Roger and I troubleshot a bug that had similar symptoms to this, though not exactly, some time ago.  And the voice allocation algorithm was improved in a recent beta to better protect sustained ADSR sounds from voice stealing.

Anyway, one more practical thing to check would be that the amp decay on your drum sounds, even if they're just samples, isn't set longer than it needs to be.  The reason I'm suggesting this is because your bass line seemed to work just fine when you were rolling quarter notes, but choked on the 16ths... This may indicate that your voices are getting used up by an unnecessarily long amp decay on the sounds you're rolling, even if the decay is just sustaining silence at the end of an otherwise short sample.

And of course I'm going to suggest that you run the voice and filter calibration for good measure.

Let me know how that goes for you...

Cheers!

*Edit: And just to be thorough, what mode do you have the roll/arp set to?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 03:28:48 PM by John the Savage »

RobH

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Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2017, 05:49:08 PM »
Thanks I'll go through all the things you suggested, the bassline is defo not playing back correctly when its on 4ths although it you can hear it its still missing parts of it weirdly, ok so lets go through this list one by one.

OS - My OS is 1.4
Panel - 1.3
Sam OS 1.1

Ok, my amp decays don't seem to be set really long, the longest i've got one at is like 80, i tried muting everything but the kick and the bass and then dialing the decay back to zero it made no difference to the bassline it still choked.

I also tried dialing back every amp decay to zero and the issue remains.

Ok im calibrating now

Right so i had it in Up mode so i changed it and if i put it in retrigger mode it works ok its just i cant do any arps on the drums just layering rolls in retrigger works the bassline plays through. I'm not sure why this is because i have another synth line playing and it doesn't effect how that plays when its not in retrigger mode, do you know why this might happen just to this bassline rofl????

Would it be wise for me to upgrade to this 1.5beta?


Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2017, 06:19:31 PM »
Edit - Ok so i've got a little further with what is going on,

Does the problem go away if you change the roll/arp mode to Retrig?

RobH

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Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2017, 06:31:49 PM »
Edit - Ok so i've got a little further with what is going on,

Does the problem go away if you change the roll/arp mode to Retrig?

Yes the problem goes away, i dont understand why but it does, the only thing i cant do then is have the bass playing and roll different drums but i guess its not a major its a minor, im just getting into the Tempest sound design again i forgot how good it actually is lmao sick little unit i love it!

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2017, 06:39:08 PM »
Yes the problem goes away, i dont understand why but it does

When it's in one of the arp modes, even in 16 sounds, it plays up and down the pads the same way it does in 16 tunings mode. Not sure if this has been changed in the later Betas or not. Retrig mode causes it just to repeat whatever pad you're holding.

EDIT: I don't think it's actually playing the adjacent pads, just stealing their voices or choking them in some weird way.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 06:54:09 PM by natrixgli »

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2017, 08:44:03 PM »
Thanks I'll go through all the things you suggested, the bassline is defo not playing back correctly when its on 4ths although it you can hear it its still missing parts of it weirdly, ok so lets go through this list one by one.

OS - My OS is 1.4
Panel - 1.3
Sam OS 1.1

Ok, my amp decays don't seem to be set really long, the longest i've got one at is like 80, i tried muting everything but the kick and the bass and then dialing the decay back to zero it made no difference to the bassline it still choked.

I also tried dialing back every amp decay to zero and the issue remains.

Ok im calibrating now

Right so i had it in Up mode so i changed it and if i put it in retrigger mode it works ok its just i cant do any arps on the drums just layering rolls in retrigger works the bassline plays through. I'm not sure why this is because i have another synth line playing and it doesn't effect how that plays when its not in retrigger mode, do you know why this might happen just to this bassline rofl????

Would it be wise for me to upgrade to this 1.5beta?

Okay, that settles it then.  I'm not even going to look through my notes now, because I'm confident that it is a bug with the arp that has since been fixed.  After documenting some 80 odd bugs in the last year, I'm a little hazy on the details off the top of my head, but I do recall troubleshooting these symptoms with Roger a while back.

Anyway, yes, I highly recommend updating to the latest beta.  I promise you it is much more stable than the official operating system you're currently running, and your roll issues will most certainly disappear.

Note that you must update both the Main OS and the Voice OS in order for the new system to work.  You're looking for Main 1.4.4bb and Voice 1.5, both of which can be found at the bottom of this thread:

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,587.0.html

You must be logged-in to see the links.  Good luck.  Follow the instructions carefully.  Let me know how it goes...

Cheers!

RobH

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Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2017, 07:41:02 AM »
Thankyou so much for your help!!!

Ok so I updated the OS and voice and wow am i crazy if it sounds even better than it did before???

Anyway the roll problem is 100% fixed now!!!

Thanks for your time and patience with me x

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2017, 04:30:34 PM »
Thankyou so much for your help!!!

Ok so I updated the OS and voice and wow am i crazy if it sounds even better than it did before???

Anyway the roll problem is 100% fixed now!!!

Thanks for your time and patience with me x

That's what I like to hear (wink).  Anyway, you're welcome, Rob.

Cheers!

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2017, 11:52:48 PM »
i think you should change the name of the thread...
"Tempest Operational Tips & Tricks AKA FAQ Thread (Attention!!Read this first!!)"
to
"ATTENTION!!!!!!! READ THIS FIRST!!!!!!! (Tempest Operational Tips & Tricks AKA FAQ Thread)"

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2017, 03:36:24 AM »
i think you should change the name of the thread...
"Tempest Operational Tips & Tricks AKA FAQ Thread (Attention!!Read this first!!)"
to
"ATTENTION!!!!!!! READ THIS FIRST!!!!!!! (Tempest Operational Tips & Tricks AKA FAQ Thread)"

When you consider that this particular issue turned out to be a legitimate and otherwise scarcely-documented bug one that reading the "Tips & Tricks" thread would not have helped with I gotta say, I'm not entirely clear what the sentiment of this comment is.

At any rate, in case you didn't notice, the issue has already been neatly resolved; in a personable manner I might add.

But hey, thanks for the unsolicited advice.  Perhaps read more carefully next time (wink).

Cheers! 

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2017, 05:10:19 AM »
i think you should change the name of the thread...
"Tempest Operational Tips & Tricks AKA FAQ Thread (Attention!!Read this first!!)"
to
"ATTENTION!!!!!!! READ THIS FIRST!!!!!!! (Tempest Operational Tips & Tricks AKA FAQ Thread)"

When you consider that this particular issue turned out to be a legitimate and otherwise scarcely-documented bug one that reading the "Tips & Tricks" thread would not have helped with I gotta say, I'm not entirely clear what the sentiment of this comment is.

At any rate, in case you didn't notice, the issue has already been neatly resolved; in a personable manner I might add.

But hey, thanks for the unsolicited advice.  Perhaps read more carefully next time (wink).

Cheers!
the sentiment is only "update to the latest OS first", then report bugs.
You may take my comment as a troll comment, but i can assure you it was not intended that way.
i don't think my post warranted any Professor Snape-esque facetiousness though.

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2017, 06:21:10 PM »
i think you should change the name of the thread...
"Tempest Operational Tips & Tricks AKA FAQ Thread (Attention!!Read this first!!)"
to
"ATTENTION!!!!!!! READ THIS FIRST!!!!!!! (Tempest Operational Tips & Tricks AKA FAQ Thread)"

When you consider that this particular issue turned out to be a legitimate and otherwise scarcely-documented bug one that reading the "Tips & Tricks" thread would not have helped with I gotta say, I'm not entirely clear what the sentiment of this comment is.

At any rate, in case you didn't notice, the issue has already been neatly resolved; in a personable manner I might add.

But hey, thanks for the unsolicited advice.  Perhaps read more carefully next time (wink).

Cheers!
the sentiment is only "update to the latest OS first", then report bugs.
You may take my comment as a troll comment, but i can assure you it was not intended that way.
i don't think my post warranted any Professor Snape-esque facetiousness though.

And where exactly in the "Tips & Tricks" thread is it suggested that people should update to the latest beta?

The fact is that most user will never load a beta OS, nor should they.  Beta testing is a volunteer position for those interested in keeping up with a very long, involved, and often convoluted conversation.

The OP was running the latest factory OS, which one would expect to trust, and experiencing an issue that is not otherwise well-documented, nor is it an easy one to identify as a bug.  In fact, when I first brought this very issue to DSI's chief programmer, it was his opinion at the time that it was a hardware malfunction specific to my Tempest.  It was myself and Roger Linn that tirelessly tested the issue until we determined that it was actually a bug buried deep in the arp functionality.

But never mind that I'm qualified to speak on the matter, I'm also the first person around here to encourage folks to do some reading of their own, and not waste the community's time with easily resolved issues related to user-error and laziness.  So it stands as a vindication of sorts that I chose to engage with this person and help them solve their problem.

At any rate, this issue had been neatly resolved - to no concern of yours, I might add - when you showed up late to suggest in a roundabout way that the OP should have taken different measures, when in fact he did exactly what he should have (including taking the time to make a helpful video with steps to reproduce the problem).

I'm not sure how you thought that would go over; but as far as I'm concerned, the tone of my response was appropriate.

Cheers!

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2017, 02:34:22 AM »
I feel your frustration John as i do with all the latest announcements and your tone was excellent but can you please post these kind of thoughts to the Complaint Box next time? (http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1157.0.html)
Thanks for your understanding..
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 02:54:19 AM by Yorgos Arabatzis »

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2017, 03:55:10 AM »
I feel your frustration John as i do with all the latest announcements and your tone was excellent but can you please post these kind of thoughts to the Complaint Box next time? (http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1157.0.html)
Thanks for your understanding..

I'm not sure what you mean, Yorgos.  It seems you've taken my comments out of context.  This thread was started by someone having a legitimate problem with their Tempest, which I helped them to resolve; and my last two posts were in direct response to someone who obtruded upon the conversation uninvited...

Nothing that I've said above has anything to do with the "latest announcements" or constitutes a "complaint" in any way; nor did I attack DSI or say anything contentious about the Tempest's shortcomings.

I'm well within the forum's rules-of-conduct here.  And I have to be honest, it's my opinion that we're being slightly over-policed lately.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 04:46:41 AM by John the Savage »

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2017, 05:20:50 AM »
I just asked you John to take your conversation with onesnzeros to the other thread that's all...

Re: My bass stops when i roll any other sound + Copy question
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2017, 01:58:38 PM »
I just asked you John to take your conversation with onesnzeros to the other thread that's all...

No, I think I'll conduct my conversations when and where they take place, as I see fit.  And unless I say something bigoted, or otherwise interject in a designated thread with an off-topic or unsolicited comment, I wouldn't expect it to be any of your concern.

Cheers!