Roland System 8

[jg666]

I’ve only ever seen reviews on this and never heard it in ‘real life’. Because it has no aftertouch and because it looks like an explosion in a snot factory, there’s no way I would think of buying this. If they did a module version without the green then I might be interested.

You can turn the green lights off.

Aha! I wasn’t aware of that, thanks

[Jan Schultink]

Roland's software emulations are really good, I can't hear the difference running their 106 and 808 VSTs with the real thing (which I own). My computer is stuttering though under the load, in 2 years I think that advantage of the System 8 will be gone. I suspect Roland will give the System 8 some upgrade similar to what they did to the TR-8, taking it easier on the lights.

[proteus-ix]

Roland's software emulations are really good, I can't hear the difference running their 106 and 808 VSTs with the real thing (which I own). My computer is stuttering though under the load, in 2 years I think that advantage of the System 8 will be gone. I suspect Roland will give the System 8 some upgrade similar to what they did to the TR-8, taking it easier on the lights.

I was waiting for a rackmount version, because 49 keys is just dumb for these synths IMO, and I don't need another set of keys.

But in the meantime I've switched to Native Instruments as the center of my studio, so I have Komplete and all the Roland emulations in Reaktor, plus I got Arturia's V Collection for $200.  So now I feel like I have as much Roland sound as I really need.

That said, I found the Sys8 very inspiring - the synths are one big sweet spot, and the hands-on controls make it very fast to tweak a sound the way you want it.  If they do come out with a rack, I would still strongly consider it once prices dropped under 8 or 900.

[LoboLives]

Got to say...with the new FM update....I may not write the System 8 off after all....it's no DX7 but the sounds....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyMYz37neeg&t=295s

[synthwave4ever]

System 8 limited??? Nonsense! Did you not realize you have numerous wave shapes each of which has several variations, as well as a color knob which substantially alters the sound depending on the wave shape and variation chosen? You can get more timbres from the S8 from a single oscillator than you can from the entirity of some lesser synths. Then you get a second oscillator with all those same facilities and a third oscillator that can act as a sub, a multi mode filter which also has numerous variations, cross modulation, wave mod, the usual complement of LFO destinations, a very capable effects section, performance mode with layers/splits, step sequencer with live recording/overdub, motion recording, detailed step editing/automation, etc etc. I guess it's limited if you're comparing it to some menu-driven workstation or something, but as VAs with a traditional knobby interface go? Yeah not limited in the slightest.
Oh yeah, and that's just the core S8 engine itself. Now the synth ships with all 3 plug outs loaded -- Jup 8, Juno 106 and JX-3P, all of which sound lovely. As the owner of an actual 106 I can tell you the plug out version sounds nearly identical. I only say "nearly" to cover my butt, not because I actually hear any discernible difference. I don't. Heh.
Frankly the S8 sequencer makes the P6 sequencer seem like a joke. Ooh neat, I can manually key in a sequence and that's it. No play direction, no overdubbing, no editing, no motion recording -- nothing. Maybe I've just never fallen for my P6 the way some owners have, but I'm frankly getting more colorful and usable sounds from the S8. Sure, some of that could just be the infatuation of new gear, but I feel like I have to work really hard to get the sounds I like from the P6. It always has a slightly metallic phasy sound to it that I can never fully dial out. I've pondered selling it many times but always find some reason to hang onto it.

[proteus-ix]

System 8 limited??? Nonsense! Did you not realize you have numerous wave shapes each of which has several variations, as well as a color knob which substantially alters the sound depending on the wave shape and variation chosen? You can get more timbres from the S8 from a single oscillator than you can from the entirity of some lesser synths. Then you get a second oscillator with all those same facilities and a third oscillator that can act as a sub, a multi mode filter which also has numerous variations, cross modulation, wave mod, the usual complement of LFO destinations, a very capable effects section, performance mode with layers/splits, step sequencer with live recording/overdub, motion recording, detailed step editing/automation, etc etc. I guess it's limited if you're comparing it to some menu-driven workstation or something, but as VAs with a traditional knobby interface go? Yeah not limited in the slightest.
Oh yeah, and that's just the core S8 engine itself. Now the synth ships with all 3 plug outs loaded -- Jup 8, Juno 106 and JX-3P, all of which sound lovely. As the owner of an actual 106 I can tell you the plug out version sounds nearly identical. I only say "nearly" to cover my butt, not because I actually hear any discernible difference. I don't. Heh.
Frankly the S8 sequencer makes the P6 sequencer seem like a joke. Ooh neat, I can manually key in a sequence and that's it. No play direction, no overdubbing, no editing, no motion recording -- nothing. Maybe I've just never fallen for my P6 the way some owners have, but I'm frankly getting more colorful and usable sounds from the S8. Sure, some of that could just be the infatuation of new gear, but I feel like I have to work really hard to get the sounds I like from the P6. It always has a slightly metallic phasy sound to it that I can never fully dial out. I've pondered selling it many times but always find some reason to hang onto it.

Well while we're necroposting, I have an update to my comments on this thread.

I am selling my PEK, and keeping my System 8.  Is that because the Sys8 is a *better* synth than the PEK?  No, not at all.  In terms of raw sound and uniqueness, build quality and lots of other things, the PEK crushes the Sys8.  But I just don't really use the PEK for poly sounds, so a Desktop Evolver would be fine for me, so it seems like a waste to have it when someone else could be using it.

Meanwhile I can load in any 3 of a Jupiter 8, Juno 60, Juno 106, JX3P, SH101, Promars, and SH2 into my System 8 at one time, not to mention the actual System 8 synth itself, which is probably the most underrated synth of all time.  People forget there is even a System 8 synth at all!  And now that it does FM, it opens up a whole new range of timbres, although I really do prefer the 6op FM from my DX7iid.  It's also very light, which if touring is ever a thing again, would be much more viable than lugging out-of-production, heavier, near-vintage gear around just for the sake of looking cool on stage.

I do wish it had poly aftertouch, better physical design etc, but I got mine for $1000 shipped and it was very much never used by the original owner.  I can understand why other people may not like it, but I love it.

[LoboLives]

System 8 limited??? Nonsense! Did you not realize you have numerous wave shapes each of which has several variations, as well as a color knob which substantially alters the sound depending on the wave shape and variation chosen? You can get more timbres from the S8 from a single oscillator than you can from the entirity of some lesser synths. Then you get a second oscillator with all those same facilities and a third oscillator that can act as a sub, a multi mode filter which also has numerous variations, cross modulation, wave mod, the usual complement of LFO destinations, a very capable effects section, performance mode with layers/splits, step sequencer with live recording/overdub, motion recording, detailed step editing/automation, etc etc. I guess it's limited if you're comparing it to some menu-driven workstation or something, but as VAs with a traditional knobby interface go? Yeah not limited in the slightest.
Oh yeah, and that's just the core S8 engine itself. Now the synth ships with all 3 plug outs loaded -- Jup 8, Juno 106 and JX-3P, all of which sound lovely. As the owner of an actual 106 I can tell you the plug out version sounds nearly identical. I only say "nearly" to cover my butt, not because I actually hear any discernible difference. I don't. Heh.
Frankly the S8 sequencer makes the P6 sequencer seem like a joke. Ooh neat, I can manually key in a sequence and that's it. No play direction, no overdubbing, no editing, no motion recording -- nothing. Maybe I've just never fallen for my P6 the way some owners have, but I'm frankly getting more colorful and usable sounds from the S8. Sure, some of that could just be the infatuation of new gear, but I feel like I have to work really hard to get the sounds I like from the P6. It always has a slightly metallic phasy sound to it that I can never fully dial out. I've pondered selling it many times but always find some reason to hang onto it.

Well while we're necroposting, I have an update to my comments on this thread.

I am selling my PEK, and keeping my System 8.  Is that because the Sys8 is a *better* synth than the PEK?  No, not at all.  In terms of raw sound and uniqueness, build quality and lots of other things, the PEK crushes the Sys8.  But I just don't really use the PEK for poly sounds, so a Desktop Evolver would be fine for me, so it seems like a waste to have it when someone else could be using it.

Meanwhile I can load in any 3 of a Jupiter 8, Juno 60, Juno 106, JX3P, SH101, Promars, and SH2 into my System 8 at one time, not to mention the actual System 8 synth itself, which is probably the most underrated synth of all time.  People forget there is even a System 8 synth at all!  And now that it does FM, it opens up a whole new range of timbres, although I really do prefer the 6op FM from my DX7iid.  It's also very light, which if touring is ever a thing again, would be much more viable than lugging out-of-production, heavier, near-vintage gear around just for the sake of looking cool on stage.

I do wish it had poly aftertouch, better physical design etc, but I got mine for $1000 shipped and it was very much never used by the original owner.  I can understand why other people may not like it, but I love it.

I almost think that the System 8 engine itself would have been perfect on it's own. Wish it had more memory slots though.

[proteus-ix]

People forget there is even a System 8 synth at all!  And now that it does FM, it opens up a whole new range of timbres, although I really do prefer the 6op FM from my DX7iid.  It's also very light, which if touring is ever a thing again, would be much more viable than lugging out-of-production, heavier, near-vintage gear around just for the sake of looking cool on stage.

I do wish it had poly aftertouch, better physical design etc, but I got mine for $1000 shipped and it was very much never used by the original owner.  I can understand why other people may not like it, but I love it.

I almost think that the System 8 engine itself would have been perfect on it's own. Wish it had more memory slots though.

Can you imagine the gnashing of teeth on Reddit/GS/MF etc if Roland had put out a hardware VA with no software editor, with these keys, build and aesthetics, and only a retro-vintage engine in 2016 or whenever it came out?  The "ZOMG it's just a VST in a box!" hysteria would cause earthquakes.  It would have had to be like $300 for people not to eviscerate it, and even then people would try their best.

[Manbird]

I'm finding myself drawn to the System 8, a synth I've never seen in real life. I've had a free Roland Cloud trial this last month, and despite the known CPU/crackling issues, I've really had a blast with some of the synths available. The Jupiter 4 plug-out has pushed me further down one rabbit hole or other.

I own a Juno 6. Lovely synth - great sound, great physical presence. I'm not so bonded with it, though, that I don't consider letting it go. In recent years, mostly to do with my leaving Berlin, I've sold my PolySix, TR-707 and Micromoog, along with loads of guitars and other gear. These were all beloved instruments, but I found it wasn't so hard to let them go. (Funny to see Ty Unwin's name pop up in this thread, as I bought the Moog from him...)

It's curious for me to be considering letting the Juno go, replacing it with such an ugly plastic creature! But the Juno needs a bit of work. The chorus chip needs replacing and the pitch lever is glitchy in one direction. These aren't such a big deal, but unlike in Berlin, where it was €5 for a ten minute taxi ride to the repair shop, I'm now looking at 2 hours by car each direction x2 trips per repair. My wife's old P5 also needs repair - a j-wire broke a month after the previous servicing! We save up our repair jobs, then fill the car once we can sort out a date with our repair guy. It's an ordeal every time! I'm starting to really see my precious vintage gear through such practical eyes now... I love the sound, look and feel of these instruments, but as I told my wife last night, "Reliability is sexy!"

I rarely bring synths to gigs, and since Covid/leaving Berlin, I've gigged very rarely and not done any of touring. I supported China Crisis a couple weeks back, doing half of my set karaoke style with laptop. The System 8 does seem like something easy enough to carry along to the occasional regional gig. Not a back breaker, at very least.

I'm rambling here, but it's in hope of hearing from a few System 8 fans, whether people new to the instrument or those who've lived with one for a while.

 

[LPF83]

I'm finding myself drawn to the System 8, a synth I've never seen in real life. I've had a free Roland Cloud trial this last month, and despite the known CPU/crackling issues, I've really had a blast with some of the synths available. The Jupiter 4 plug-out has pushed me further down one rabbit hole or other.

I own a Juno 6. Lovely synth - great sound, great physical presence. I'm not so bonded with it, though, that I don't consider letting it go. In recent years, mostly to do with my leaving Berlin, I've sold my PolySix, TR-707 and Micromoog, along with loads of guitars and other gear. These were all beloved instruments, but I found it wasn't so hard to let them go. (Funny to see Ty Unwin's name pop up in this thread, as I bought the Moog from him...)

It's curious for me to be considering letting the Juno go, replacing it with such an ugly plastic creature! But the Juno needs a bit of work. The chorus chip needs replacing and the pitch lever is glitchy in one direction. These aren't such a big deal, but unlike in Berlin, where it was €5 for a ten minute taxi ride to the repair shop, I'm now looking at 2 hours by car each direction x2 trips per repair. My wife's old P5 also needs repair - a j-wire broke a month after the previous servicing! We save up our repair jobs, then fill the car once we can sort out a date with our repair guy. It's an ordeal every time! I'm starting to really see my precious vintage gear through such practical eyes now... I love the sound, look and feel of these instruments, but as I told my wife last night, "Reliability is sexy!"

I rarely bring synths to gigs, and since Covid/leaving Berlin, I've gigged very rarely and not done any of touring. I supported China Crisis a couple weeks back, doing half of my set karaoke style with laptop. The System 8 does seem like something easy enough to carry along to the occasional regional gig. Not a back breaker, at very least.

I'm rambling here, but it's in hope of hearing from a few System 8 fans, whether people new to the instrument or those who've lived with one for a while.

Not long ago I picked one of these up on Reverb in mint condition.  I didn't want to pay the full price for a new one, because I wasn't sure how much I would like it.  I also like that it already had the aluminum side panels which I don't think are available anymore due to supply chain issues / massive increases in cost of aluminum products.

What I had trouble finding info on, and the reason I didn't pull the trigger sooner, was whether it sounds the same as the cloud plugins or not.  I saw comments from some saying it sounds identical, and others saying it has a little special something running on dedicated hardware that you don't get inside the box.   

So, naturally the first thing I did were some tests to satisfy my curiosity.  I performed most of my tests on pad type sounds, mostly in the lower register where plugins tend to sound flat/mushy.  I ran the output into the preamps on my Octopre, which are high quality pres but very transparent, they don't have the coloring of the famous Neve "air" that the primary preamps on my Scarlett 3rd gen have (and yes those make a HUGE difference but they do color the sound which makes it an unfair fight for comparing apples and oranges like this).  The main thing is I wanted to hear it through converters because I noticed most Youtubers tend to use the USB audio feature, which I would expect to sound no better than plugins.  I avoided this because other synths (such as the Virus TI2) sound anemic over USB but really come to life when sent through the same signal path as traditional hardware synths.

So how did the plugins fare against the System 8?   Surprisingly good...   Levels were perfectly matched and the sounds were almost indistinguishable, except that on the plugins I did notice some very slight artifacts that sounded like phase cancellation, and depending on the sound even subtle clicking.  The same artifacts may have been present on the System 8 signal as well, but got blurred enough by the conversion process that they were less noticable?

Then I decided to add a Boss DC-2W in between the System 8 and the Scarlett inputs.   Stunning results!  The analog pedal in the chain really puts back any analog magic that was lost by digital emulation... even if the pedal is used on the most subtle setting (to the point it barely sounds like chorus), I felt it makes such a big difference in removing the preciseness or harshness of the sound that I always heard in the System 8 when compared to the vintage analog counterparts.

I'm not a gigging musician but it struck me right away what a useful instrument it would be in gigs so I believe you'd be very pleased with that aspect of it.  The build quality as you've probably read is not in the league of Dave's creations, but it's nothing that affects the playability and the light weight would be appreciated on the road.

I wouldn't sweat the green lights.  I was always turned off by them watching them in videos but in person they're kind of cool.  I've heard them described as "phosphor glow retro" which I think suits them.  You can turn them off but they serve a useful purpose in showing which controls are mapped to which synth plugin.

If you already like the cloud plugins you will like them even more on this synth, simply because of the tactile experience it brings, even compared to well-mapped MIDI controller.  Being able to load 4 different synth engines at a time, split or stack them, etc. is quite powerful. 

My DAW PC was a powerful box by standards of 7 years or so ago, but now there is better available.   A single cloud plugin (I guess I should get in the habit of calling them plugout) would immediately consume about 25% of my available CPU, leaving me at about 45% average remaining and showing some overloads.  I love being able to just dump the plugout to the synth and delete the instance in the DAW to recover the the CPU.   Although, there is a lot said to doing sound design with the plugout running simply because seeing the representation of the original instrument helps you to think in the sound design flow that the original synth had..  It's all quite impressive once you begin using it all to its fullest advantage.

The Jupiter 4 plugout showed that Roland has not abandoned the ACB platform, so rumors of the System8's demise are greatly exaggerated ... and as you already know if you've heard it, it sounds great (and for me even better on the System8).

All in all I'd recommend it.... not necessarily over my other analog synths in terms of raw sound but it's probably the best way I'm aware of to capture the sound of vintage Roland synths and still maximize reliability.

[Manbird]

Thanks much for such a thoughtful/thorough reply, LPF83. I went ahead and bought the one I'd been eyeing. $1100 seemed a reasonable price.

Here's a possibly silly question... my System 8 will come loaded with the 106, JX-3P and Jup8 plug-outs, I assume. To get the Jupiter 4 installed, do I have to purchase it, or would I have access for a month at a time if I pay monthly for the Roland Cloud? If the latter, and I only paid for a month, say, what happens to the plug out at that point if it's still used in the System 8?

[LPF83]

Thanks much for such a thoughtful/thorough reply, LPF83. I went ahead and bought the one I'd been eyeing. $1100 seemed a reasonable price.

Here's a possibly silly question... my System 8 will come loaded with the 106, JX-3P and Jup8 plug-outs, I assume. To get the Jupiter 4 installed, do I have to purchase it, or would I have access for a month at a time if I pay monthly for the Roland Cloud? If the latter, and I only paid for a month, say, what happens to the plug out at that point if it's still used in the System 8?

You can buy the Jupiter 4 plugout lifetime license for $200 (most of the other plugouts are cheaper), or join for $100/yr  or $10 month and have any two of the legendary plugouts loaded at any one time... or $200/year or $20 month have access to everything.

When buying a used one, hopefully the previous owner restored the plugout slots to factory, but possibly not, so there's no telling what might be loaded there... for that reason alone it might be a good idea to get the unlimited plan at least or a month or two until you settle on which plugouts you like best, and get a feel for the plugout workflow.  I'm using the plugouts as the editor/match management system and have not tried the alternate methods of patch loading.   Each plugout slot (4 total) can hold 64 patches.  The editors, and the ease of sending / retrieving patches to the synth are a nice feature that I don't want to give up at the moment.

Will look forward to hearing how you like it, and/or the results of any outboard gear/pedals etc you try in combination with it.

[bleepbloop]

I have unfortunately not had the chance to try the System-8 but do own a System-1M which can be a lot of fun. 

I would describe the System-1M as very digital in tone but with enough heft that it doesn't sound thin beside my other analogue gear.  The architecture on the '1M at least is wide but shallow - it can do a lot of things but lacks depth due to a limited mod-matrix and one LFO.  The envelopes are not very snappy and the lack of bandpass filter is limiting because the oscillators can be too mid heavy to get detail for some sounds.  But it can sound really nice and many of the limitations would be lessened by the extra features of the System-8 (more filters, better effects, more oscillator options, etc.)

I liked the System-1M enough that if I had found a System-8 locally before I did the Take 5, I would have bought that instead. The immediacy of that hands on interface can not be overstated and the extra filter types over the System-1M would really open it up I expect. 

In case anyone has not seen this yet, you can apparently change the LED colour if you dislike the alien green:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylJ4veTZWOA

[Manbird]

Thanks for the Easter Egg vid! Oddly, I've not been put off by the unattractive layout. Well, not just the layout. The whole synth looks like something I'd never want to be in a room with. And yet, mine is on the way. I'm trying to talk/trick myself into selling my Juno 6 now that I've paid for the System 8. The Juno 6 isn't a synth I go way back with or know so well, but it sure is a beautiful instrument.

I'll give a quick book report when the new synth arrives and I've had time to become confused by everything it does!

[LPF83]

In case anyone has not seen this yet, you can apparently change the LED colour if you dislike the alien green:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylJ4veTZWOA

Sadly, from the video comments: "YES. This was produced specifically for April Fool's day. No, you can't change your System-8 colors by doing this. Yes, very many people fell for this."

It would have been nice if this were really possible.

[Manbird]

In case anyone has not seen this yet, you can apparently change the LED colour if you dislike the alien green:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylJ4veTZWOA

Sadly, from the video comments: "YES. This was produced specifically for April Fool's day. No, you can't change your System-8 colors by doing this. Yes, very many people fell for this."

It would have been nice if this were really possible.

Ah, well. But I guess this is what spray paint is for!

[bleepbloop]

[Sadly, from the video comments: "YES. This was produced specifically for April Fool's day. No, you can't change your System-8 colors by doing this. Yes, very many people fell for this."

It would have been nice if this were really possible.

Ah man, that's embarrassing.  Sorry for getting anyone's hope's up.     

[LPF83]

[Sadly, from the video comments: "YES. This was produced specifically for April Fool's day. No, you can't change your System-8 colors by doing this. Yes, very many people fell for this."

It would have been nice if this were really possible.

Ah man, that's embarrassing.  Sorry for getting anyone's hope's up.   

At least it was a very convincing one.... to the point that I actually walked into my studio room, powered up the System 8 and tried it before I went back to check the video to be sure I was doing it right, and only THEN read the comments.  And I can't remember the last time I actually got punked into physical action like that by an april fools joke because I usually see them coming.. Not so much in June

[LPF83]

Earlier today I was playing around with the vocoder and input FX a bit.. pretty cool! 

While most controls are very immediate, some of the tweakability to get the vocoder and inputs sounding good is a bit menu-divey.  Does anyone know if there's a way to get to these settings from within a DAW?

[Manbird]

My System 8 arrived this weekend, and despite the condition of the box and the packing materials inside, it's in excellent shape.

Anyway, first impressions after a few days' fiddling... it's a pretty wonderful synth. The Sys8 synth engine is excellent in its own right, as many before me have said. The plug-outs - Juno 106, Jupiter 8 and JX-3P - are fab. I've been doing the best A/B I can between the plug-out 106 and my "actual, real" Juno 6 and I'm convinced, for my non-trainspotter purposes, that the System 8 does the job just fine.

As well as the synth sounding righteous, it's got a swinging set of groovy, musically-useful features. The sequencer is charming. I hooked the synth up to my TR-6S this morning and while my wife was brushing her teeth, I was shouting from across the house, "Look, ma... I'm a DJ!" (I'm so not a DJ!) Back to the System 8... the effects are great, too. A very musical part of the performance experience. While I love the Juno for its do-no-wrong sound and ease-of-tweak, I'm pretty convinced by the "Oneness" of the System 8. It does a good number of good things, but not in any way that I find fussy or overly-complicated.

And with that said... anyone wanna buy a Juno 6?