Roland System 8

[558]

Got to say...with the new FM update....I may not write the System 8 off after all....it's no DX7 but the sounds....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyMYz37neeg&t=295s

Obviously not really in the same ballpark as the System 1m.  It may be though.  Same Reverb, same Delay I would guess, same Ring Mod.  Same everything.  Same Noise, same oscillators and LFO.  Just one voice.  It does sound great though in that video. 

So when they run a modular into a Polyphonic synth I guess they just have some sort of gate splitter or something?  I am not sure how that would work as the above mentioned 2 mono synths are the only ones in my modular setup.  Not something I'm really interested in pursuing.  But they are fun to play with as sort of solo sequences with the beatstep pro.  The System 1m has been featured on a ton of my live performances since I got it 5 years ago or so just before I got the Prophet in 2021. 

[LPF83]

I remember reading some comments from someone that had both.  He had a System-1, then later got a System 8 and liked them both but seemed disappointed that the S8 is not exactly the same as System-1 with higher voice count, the sounds were different... not better or worse, just a different synth.

It's sort of like the Prophet 5 vs Pro One dilemma.  Similar parts and controls on paper, just a lower voice count for Pro One...  but 5 Pro Ones would sound nothing like a Prophet 5, just as playing 1 voice on a Prophet 5 doesn't sound like a Pro One.  They sound related, but not same.  The difference in the Prophet 6 and AS-1 further solidifies this, they are supposed to be exactly the same signal design differing only in voice count, but the differences are there.

I suppose the difference comes down to gain staging or other architectural considerations I'm not qualified to even comment on.  But just like very small tweaks to a single sound can completely change how it sounds, small changes to component or circuitry can have a dramatic effect on how different two different synths are.  Even microscopic enough to be at the manufacturing tolerance level.  This is why some folks say the _______ (insert MiniMoog, Jupiter 8, etc whatever) is the most amazing synth they've ever heard and others say "meh, just another synth".  Add hardware level variance to the fact that not everyone's eardrum is physically the same and the only guarantee is that opinions will never align completely

[Manbird]

I'm starting to suspect that the world doesn't hinge on which synths I buy, keep or re-sell, but...
After only having a second System 8 for a few weeks, I've sold it. I really do dig that machine. We all agree that the System 8's own engine is worth its weight. When I was prepping to sell, I programmed a handful of patches to show off the range of the S8 engine. That alone almost stopped me from wanting to sell. I had a freako-mechanical thing next to an industrial unpleasantry followed by a gentle FM bell followed by a Juno pad... the System 8 is very versatile.

I think though, that the pull of the "almost unknowable" keeps hitting me. Not that I'd mastered the S8, but to be able to program a range as broad as I did in ten minutes certainly shows how comfortable I'd become with the synth. My downstairs studio isn't synth-heavy. I had the S8, the Trigon and the Taiga. The latter two were the ones that kept pulling at me. They have a mystery to them that I can't deny. But they also feel and sound more like "me, now" than the "Oh, I remember this!" vibe that the plug-outs were giving me on the Roland. Not that I don't adore the classic sounds, but as I've probably said before, those sounds are "ours," not "mine."

Long story short, I have an ARP 2600m on the way! I'm hoping it will pair weirdly with the Taiga. I've only used a 2600 once in the wild... at the end of a studio session, we plugged it in and came up with a suitably WTF fuck tone.

I have so many "straight" synths and I don't lack for classic strings, brass, pads, leads etc. Here's hoping the 2600 freaks me out like I suspect it might!

[LPF83]

I'm starting to suspect that the world doesn't hinge on which synths I buy, keep or re-sell, but...
After only having a second System 8 for a few weeks, I've sold it. I really do dig that machine. We all agree that the System 8's own engine is worth its weight. When I was prepping to sell, I programmed a handful of patches to show off the range of the S8 engine. That alone almost stopped me from wanting to sell. I had a freako-mechanical thing next to an industrial unpleasantry followed by a gentle FM bell followed by a Juno pad... the System 8 is very versatile.

I think though, that the pull of the "almost unknowable" keeps hitting me. Not that I'd mastered the S8, but to be able to program a range as broad as I did in ten minutes certainly shows how comfortable I'd become with the synth. My downstairs studio isn't synth-heavy. I had the S8, the Trigon and the Taiga. The latter two were the ones that kept pulling at me. They have a mystery to them that I can't deny. But they also feel and sound more like "me, now" than the "Oh, I remember this!" vibe that the plug-outs were giving me on the Roland. Not that I don't adore the classic sounds, but as I've probably said before, those sounds are "ours," not "mine."

Long story short, I have an ARP 2600m on the way! I'm hoping it will pair weirdly with the Taiga. I've only used a 2600 once in the wild... at the end of a studio session, we plugged it in and came up with a suitably WTF fuck tone.

I have so many "straight" synths and I don't lack for classic strings, brass, pads, leads etc. Here's hoping the 2600 freaks me out like I suspect it might!

That's one thing about the Roland classics polys in general, there is a certain character to them that is unmistakable.  They do what they do, which is great when you want what they do, but they typically don't specialize in taking you somewhere unexpected.

[Manbird]

I'm starting to suspect that the world doesn't hinge on which synths I buy, keep or re-sell, but...
After only having a second System 8 for a few weeks, I've sold it. I really do dig that machine. We all agree that the System 8's own engine is worth its weight. When I was prepping to sell, I programmed a handful of patches to show off the range of the S8 engine. That alone almost stopped me from wanting to sell. I had a freako-mechanical thing next to an industrial unpleasantry followed by a gentle FM bell followed by a Juno pad... the System 8 is very versatile.

I think though, that the pull of the "almost unknowable" keeps hitting me. Not that I'd mastered the S8, but to be able to program a range as broad as I did in ten minutes certainly shows how comfortable I'd become with the synth. My downstairs studio isn't synth-heavy. I had the S8, the Trigon and the Taiga. The latter two were the ones that kept pulling at me. They have a mystery to them that I can't deny. But they also feel and sound more like "me, now" than the "Oh, I remember this!" vibe that the plug-outs were giving me on the Roland. Not that I don't adore the classic sounds, but as I've probably said before, those sounds are "ours," not "mine."

Long story short, I have an ARP 2600m on the way! I'm hoping it will pair weirdly with the Taiga. I've only used a 2600 once in the wild... at the end of a studio session, we plugged it in and came up with a suitably WTF fuck tone.

I have so many "straight" synths and I don't lack for classic strings, brass, pads, leads etc. Here's hoping the 2600 freaks me out like I suspect it might!

That's one thing about the Roland classics polys in general, there is a certain character to them that is unmistakable.  They do what they do, which is great when you want what they do, but they typically don't specialize in taking you somewhere unexpected.

As my wife once said of my Juno 6, "So, it only makes pretty sounds?" Why, yes! And I LOVE that sound, but I feel I have to work in its direction.

I'm working on a new thing with the Trigon just now... it sounds like itself. (And it sounds very pretty, in this instance!)

[LPF83]

If the Jupiter 8 / overall Roland sound was your main interest in the System 8, there's a plug-in that I only became aware of in recent months that I think sounds fantastic.  But I will only recommend with caveats:  Thing by Acustica Audio.

First the good -- the synth plugins coming from these guys are the first soft synths to ever convince my ear that software can sound as good as hardware.  We hear people say nobody can tell hardware from software in a blind test but the thing is no two ears are exactly the same, so everyone who believes their opinion is fact still needs to learn that opinion varies between individuals, while facts remain constant.  But my opinion has always been that soft synths, even though they've gotten better (and can certainly replace hardware in many use cases), they still don't sound "just as good"...  But when I hear Acustica's synth plug-ins, they have found a way to trick my ear drum... they have managed to capture analog magic and "Thing" is the best Jupiter 8 emulation I've heard.
I haven't even researched into why they're like they are or how they get such good results but I'm guessing something like Neural DSP machine learning process.

Now the bad:
- Don't pay full price for any of their stuff.  It goes on sale regularly for deep discounts and that price is about what should be paid for them.  Try the free stuff (like the TH2 synth) and the trials before deciding what's good.  Also don't buy more than one at once because after you buy one you get a coupon for another, and the discounts stack on top of whatever sale price.  So to get several of them cheaply you kind of have to plan your purchase and be patient.
- Beware usage on a weak CPU or with a CPU inefficient DAW, these plugins will crush it and that's been a great source of user dissatisfaction, when you read bad reviews that's usually the issue whether the reviewer realized it or not.  Sonic digital quality comes with heavy processing burden and these are CPU draining plugins.  That's the price of quality like this I guess.  Another reason to trial first.
- Their plug ins tend to make copious use of disk space, which especially on a laptop or with expensive SSDs becomes a thing.  I think its because the FX built into this (and part of the reason they sound the way they do) load up a lot of convolution images which are disk space gobblers.
- Even great sounding software isn't quite as fun and tactile as hardware unless you have a controller to map knobs to plugin values easily. 

I've been playing around with Thing, Squid, and Alice.... they are all really good sounding.

[Manbird]

If the Jupiter 8 / overall Roland sound was your main interest in the System 8, there's a plug-in that I only became aware of in recent months that I think sounds fantastic.  But I will only recommend with caveats:  Thing by Acustica Audio.

First the good -- the synth plugins coming from these guys are the first soft synths to ever convince my ear that software can sound as good as hardware.  We hear people say nobody can tell hardware from software in a blind test but the thing is no two ears are exactly the same, so everyone who believes their opinion is fact still needs to learn that opinion varies between individuals, while facts remain constant.  But my opinion has always been that soft synths, even though they've gotten better (and can certainly replace hardware in many use cases), they still don't sound "just as good"...  But when I hear Acustica's synth plug-ins, they have found a way to trick my ear drum... they have managed to capture analog magic and "Thing" is the best Jupiter 8 emulation I've heard.
I haven't even researched into why they're like they are or how they get such good results but I'm guessing something like Neural DSP machine learning process.

Now the bad:
- Don't pay full price for any of their stuff.  It goes on sale regularly for deep discounts and that price is about what should be paid for them.  Try the free stuff (like the TH2 synth) and the trials before deciding what's good.  Also don't buy more than one at once because after you buy one you get a coupon for another, and the discounts stack on top of whatever sale price.  So to get several of them cheaply you kind of have to plan your purchase and be patient.
- Beware usage on a weak CPU or with a CPU inefficient DAW, these plugins will crush it and that's been a great source of user dissatisfaction, when you read bad reviews that's usually the issue whether the reviewer realized it or not.  Sonic digital quality comes with heavy processing burden and these are CPU draining plugins.  That's the price of quality like this I guess.  Another reason to trial first.
- Their plug ins tend to make copious use of disk space, which especially on a laptop or with expensive SSDs becomes a thing.  I think its because the FX built into this (and part of the reason they sound the way they do) load up a lot of convolution images which are disk space gobblers.
- Even great sounding software isn't quite as fun and tactile as hardware unless you have a controller to map knobs to plugin values easily. 

I've been playing around with Thing, Squid, and Alice.... they are all really good sounding.

I appreciate the in-depth info, but second time around with the System 8, I was mainly using the internal engine - FM and other digital thangs. And while there's a great place for those sounds - they can sit on top of a proper analog poly and really cut through or outline an edge etc - I found myself not really going far with those sounds.

I have the Diva plugin, tho demo only, and really adore it sonically. But I don't use it. I open it up, play around, marvel at the tone and then get back to work. I'm slowly learning what *really* turns me on vs what's fun to muck about with. As a former two-time DX-7 owner, I think I might be getting close to admitting I don't really care much for FM!

Maybe the bigger picture answer is that I rarely enjoy soft synths. Screen/mouse is fine for DAW, but gimme the meat and metal of the mighty P5 anytime. (That's in my best caveman voice, btw...)

[LPF83]

If the Jupiter 8 / overall Roland sound was your main interest in the System 8, there's a plug-in that I only became aware of in recent months that I think sounds fantastic.  But I will only recommend with caveats:  Thing by Acustica Audio.

First the good -- the synth plugins coming from these guys are the first soft synths to ever convince my ear that software can sound as good as hardware.  We hear people say nobody can tell hardware from software in a blind test but the thing is no two ears are exactly the same, so everyone who believes their opinion is fact still needs to learn that opinion varies between individuals, while facts remain constant.  But my opinion has always been that soft synths, even though they've gotten better (and can certainly replace hardware in many use cases), they still don't sound "just as good"...  But when I hear Acustica's synth plug-ins, they have found a way to trick my ear drum... they have managed to capture analog magic and "Thing" is the best Jupiter 8 emulation I've heard.
I haven't even researched into why they're like they are or how they get such good results but I'm guessing something like Neural DSP machine learning process.

Now the bad:
- Don't pay full price for any of their stuff.  It goes on sale regularly for deep discounts and that price is about what should be paid for them.  Try the free stuff (like the TH2 synth) and the trials before deciding what's good.  Also don't buy more than one at once because after you buy one you get a coupon for another, and the discounts stack on top of whatever sale price.  So to get several of them cheaply you kind of have to plan your purchase and be patient.
- Beware usage on a weak CPU or with a CPU inefficient DAW, these plugins will crush it and that's been a great source of user dissatisfaction, when you read bad reviews that's usually the issue whether the reviewer realized it or not.  Sonic digital quality comes with heavy processing burden and these are CPU draining plugins.  That's the price of quality like this I guess.  Another reason to trial first.
- Their plug ins tend to make copious use of disk space, which especially on a laptop or with expensive SSDs becomes a thing.  I think its because the FX built into this (and part of the reason they sound the way they do) load up a lot of convolution images which are disk space gobblers.
- Even great sounding software isn't quite as fun and tactile as hardware unless you have a controller to map knobs to plugin values easily. 

I've been playing around with Thing, Squid, and Alice.... they are all really good sounding.

I appreciate the in-depth info, but second time around with the System 8, I was mainly using the internal engine - FM and other digital thangs. And while there's a great place for those sounds - they can sit on top of a proper analog poly and really cut through or outline an edge etc - I found myself not really going far with those sounds.

I have the Diva plugin, tho demo only, and really adore it sonically. But I don't use it. I open it up, play around, marvel at the tone and then get back to work. I'm slowly learning what *really* turns me on vs what's fun to muck about with. As a former two-time DX-7 owner, I think I might be getting close to admitting I don't really care much for FM!

Maybe the bigger picture answer is that I rarely enjoy soft synths. Screen/mouse is fine for DAW, but gimme the meat and metal of the mighty P5 anytime. (That's in my best caveman voice, btw...)

Totally understand.  I don't find plug-ins particularly inspiring compared to hardware either, but the use of software does enable certain workflow use cases for me, and often also leads me to a better understanding of synth architecture and how to program them in general.  Case in point, I've been playing around with Cherry Audios plugin version of the Crumar Spirit -- the Italian Bob Moog-designed synth.  Learning how to use the unique features make me want to shop around for a used re-issue unit of the Spirit!  Stuff I would never explore if I walked into a store and tried one hands on.