Waldorf Blofeld vs Poly Evolver Keyboard

[LoboLives]

Really interested in Digital Waveform type sounds complimenting my analog gear. I've heard good things about both. The Blofeld seems to be a bit more of a menu diving type synth while the Poly Evolver seems to be a bit more of a hands on type synth. The Blofeld does also have the sampler type option as well but without a proper sequencer it seems counter productive. I'd sooner get a Roland JDXA for that type of stuff. But just would like to hear the pros and cons of either.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I was seriously considering a Blofeld a while back for about a year.  I have no first hand experience with the instrument, but I listened to every video over and over.  It sounded quite beautiful and I was impressed by it.  It also apparently has an excellent keybed.  I have interest in only minimal digital synthesis - primarily pads - and it clearly does a fine job at these.  So, the internal debate was between the Blofeld and an eight-voice Poly Evolver Keyboard as pad machines.

In the end, I decided not to go with the Blofeld for the usual simple reasons: the shorter keyboard, the matrix control panel and menu diving, the somewhat poor encoder performance, claims that it has a low output level and is a bit hissy (which can be heard in some of the YouTube videos), as well as the expectation that Waldorf would be replacing the instrument before long.

The effect of researching the Blofeld was a renewed appreciation for the Poly Evolver: its longer keybed, superb interface, flawless parameter performance on the PE, excellent quality sound in recording, and a preference for the very digital wave shapes that the PEK offers.

Your musical needs are probably quite different from mine.  But for my interests, the Poly Evolver Keyboard was easily the better choice.  It towers over the Blofeld.  I'm of the camp that still believes it may be Dave Smith's masterpiece.

[DavidDever]

I bought a white Blofeld keyboard (after selling off my black desktop) at a great price - thing is, the output stage is a bit anemic, so you may find that a decent mixer (and a drop of EQ) beefs things up quite substantially.

If you're a headphones guy, forget using the outputs on these (same thing applies to the Q kbd, FWIW).

One of the things that strikes me about the Blofeld, even when compared to the Q, is that it's __clean__, which might put some people off as being clinical.

The keybed is a four-octave Fatar TP/9S, with a decent feel, and the metal chassis continues to give a solid impression for longevity.

As far as the built-in effects go–they're _ok_ but nothing stellar, and, as with other DSP-underpowered keyboards / modules, in some cases you might very well prefer the FX turned off (gaining you more polyphony).

Compared to the Q, or even the Evolvers, the wavetable options are more elaborate (and PPG-authentic), and the sampling option adds an interesting dimension when used as an oscillator or filter frequency modulator.

All in all - the module on its own is a screaming deal, and (if you're lucky) you can find good used keyboard units floating around for low $/€/£, etc.

[Razmo]

I agree with the above poster on Blofeld.

I've got a black Blofeld Keyboard, and even though I'd have liked it to be 5 octaves, 4 is just doing it for me... had it been 3 octaves I would not have chosen the keyboard version. The feel is rather good, and I love the feel of it... If I have to put my finger on something physical, it's the two wheels... they are quite slim, and plastic, with small tabs for moving them... I would have liked them to be wider, and with a detend instead of that irritating tab, and also with a rubber coating. Also, they sit ATOP the keys, not to the left, which may piss some people off... I don't mind though.

About the output... yes, it's substancially lower in output than most other pro gear, but don't let that fool you! ... it can most certainly get "up there" in signal level, the problem is, that the device does not have a parameter for setting the headroom really, and Waldorf must have set the volume most appropriate for multi timbral use, which by the way seems stupid because the Blofeld has so little DSP power, that using it in Multimode (to me) seems insane... I have some single-mode presets that can offer no more than 4 voices at a time! ... the Blofeld should have focused on being a single mono-timbral synth in my opinion.

With that said, the Blofeld has a VERY elaborate synthesis engine that gives you one hell of a bang for the buck! ... without being semimodular, it has a signal path that makes it very easy to create wide stereo sounds, even without using the effects, simply because it has two filters... it gives many nice stereo opportunities... also, if programed right, the filters and oscillators do sound VERY GOOD! ... not "tinny" as some claim... those who say that has only listened to factory presets, or do not know how to program it well. It is by far the VA engine I prefer the most, and on many aspects, it reminds a lot of the Nord Wave synthesizer actualy when you have the sample option... the thing about Blofeld is that it's engine is a hybrid of so many synthesis types, that no other synth match it... FM, Wavetable, Samples, VA...all mingled in together to give you a hell of a lot of synthesis "bastard" sounds so to speak.

Interface is not good in my opinion... I never liked Waldorf matrix-style editing... but if you have an editor for it on your computer, it's not really needed... Also, the desktop version do not have MIDI OUT which I find really a big shame... this is the main reason, together with the FATAR keybed, that I chose the keyboard version which does have MIDI OUT.

I also had the Evolver Keyboard (mono), and Poly Evolver Rack... I would really hate to compare the two, since they are too different, and the Evolvers have analog components that certainly add to it's cool sound... but also to irritating clicking because of old Curtis chips that cannot initialize fast enough... this is mostly hearable with poly Evolvers... plus they have some quirks and irritating bugs that DSI never fixed ... still... but if you compare the raw sound of Blofeld and Evolver, the Evolver wins because of the analog parts... on the other hand, Blofeld can do so many more things that Evolver would never be able to touch... sequencer or not.

Blofeld is perfect for creating Ambient music... Beautiful and stereo wide Pad sounds, with organic additions because of the samples that will make it have timbres like a ROMpler as well, and crazy modulated wavetable sounds as well... or modulate all synthesis types together to create total mayhem.

Also, there are MANY free presets for the Blofeld... in fact all older presets from Q and MicroQ are there for the use, on top of any Blofeld specific ones.... that is A LOT of presets actually... Aprox. 4.000.

Yes there are many other cool options out there... but Blofeld just seems to allways offer something no other digital synth offers, and for a price that has yet not been beaten.

Just my two cents

[MisterHemi]

I have both a Poly Evolver Keyboard and a Blofeld desktop. I can't add much but I agree with what has been said already.

I haven't dug into the Blofeld as much because I kinda hate the menu diving. The outputs as kinda low but that can be overcome. I also wish I had the keyboard version sometimes.

As Razmo said there are thousands of free presets available.

If you were to buy the desktop version be aware that the sample option (the SL license) is an addition expense. If I remember it cost $120 USD or 99 Euros. I bought the SL license.

I wanted it because I liked some of the sounds the PPG was capable of. If you spend enough time programming it, I can make some interesting sounds. I need to spend more time with it and wish there was an editor.

It comes with a sound manager (and sample loader) called Spectre.

[LoboLives]

I appreciate all the feedback so far. Lots of good points. I'm more interested in getting that FM/VS type sounds (Rhodes sounds, Clav sounds, Bell sounds, Metallic pads etc) to work alongside my Moog and Prophet sounds. Similar to the Harold Faltermeyer Fletch and Beverly Hills Cop soundtracks. Also interested as well in blending them together like Allan Howarth did for the soundtracks for Big Trouble In Little China, Prince Of Darkness and They Live. Howarth once said he hated the DX and never warmed up to it due to the menu diving, he preferred the Prophet VS as it had a more familiar interface and hands on approach. It seems with the Blofeld you can't really switch between patches quickly as it's knob based as opposed to cursor buttons if I'm not mistaken so that could be awkward if I'm doing stuff on the fly. So I fear while the Blofeld may sound great, the menu diving may be problematic.

The Poly Evolver I would only get for the VS type sounds and not even use the analog parts most of the time so that may not be worth the financial investment. Plus the fact it's discontinued makes servicing it a problem as well should any issues arise. There's a guy in my city charging $2500 for a mint one and honestly...I'm really on the fence about it.

[Paul Dither]

I appreciate all the feedback so far. Lots of good points. I'm more interested in getting that FM/VS type sounds (Rhodes sounds, Clav sounds, Bell sounds, Metallic pads etc) to work alongside my Moog and Prophet sounds. Similar to the Harold Faltermeyer Fletch and Beverly Hills Cop soundtracks. Also interested as well in blending them together like Allan Howarth did for the soundtracks for Big Trouble In Little China, Prince Of Darkness and They Live. Howarth once said he hated the DX and never warmed up to it due to the menu diving, he preferred the Prophet VS as it had a more familiar interface and hands on approach. It seems with the Blofeld you can't really switch between patches quickly as it's knob based as opposed to cursor buttons if I'm not mistaken so that could be awkward if I'm doing stuff on the fly. So I fear while the Blofeld may sound great, the menu diving may be problematic.

The Poly Evolver I would only get for the VS type sounds and not even use the analog parts most of the time so that may not be worth the financial investment. Plus the fact it's discontinued makes servicing it a problem as well should any issues arise. There's a guy in my city charging $2500 for a mint one and honestly...I'm really on the fence about it.

Did you ever consider the Prophet 12? Other than that only John Bowen's Solaris and Modal Electronics' 002 come to my mind as alternatives.

[DavidDever]

The Modal 002 is definitely a force to be reckoned with, if you're after PPG-esque sounds with multimode (true) analogue filters–that said, a Prophet-12 is also worth considering, but with a different flavor.

It might be ultimately worthwhile to compare the various players in the wavetable hybrid space:

• {mfr}{model}:{data resolution}/{filter IC vendor}

PPG:

• PPG Wave 2: 8-bit / CEM filters
• PPG Wave 2.2: 8-bit / SSM filters
• PPG Wave 2.3: 12-bit / SSM filters

Sequential / DSI:

• Sequential Prophet VS: 12-bit / CEM filters
• DSI Evolver Series: 12-bit / CEM filters
• DSI Prophet 12: 12-bit / CEM filters
• DSI Pro-2: 12-bit / SSM + SEM-style discrete filters

Waldorf:

• Waldorf MicroWave: 12-bit / CEM filters
• Waldorf Wave: 12-bit / CEM filters
• Waldorf Q+: 12-bit / discrete ladder filters

E-mu / Ensoniq:

• E-mu Emax SE: 12-bit / SSM filters
• Ensoniq ESQ-1/SQ-80: 12-bit / CEM filters

Others:

• Kawai K3(m): 12-bit / SSM filters
• Modal 002/001: 12-bit / discrete filters

This isn't a comprehensive list, but might be a decent place to start your own comparisons. I've guessed on the bit depths, and it's worth considering that data resolution is only part of the equation, with DAC resolution making a big difference in the actual rendered voice output.

I've also left out samplers / sample players with analogue filters that lack digital synthesis (e.g., E-mu Emulator I/II/II, Ensoniq Mirage, Prophet x000, Oberheim DPX-1, and others).

[LoboLives]

I appreciate all the feedback so far. Lots of good points. I'm more interested in getting that FM/VS type sounds (Rhodes sounds, Clav sounds, Bell sounds, Metallic pads etc) to work alongside my Moog and Prophet sounds. Similar to the Harold Faltermeyer Fletch and Beverly Hills Cop soundtracks. Also interested as well in blending them together like Allan Howarth did for the soundtracks for Big Trouble In Little China, Prince Of Darkness and They Live. Howarth once said he hated the DX and never warmed up to it due to the menu diving, he preferred the Prophet VS as it had a more familiar interface and hands on approach. It seems with the Blofeld you can't really switch between patches quickly as it's knob based as opposed to cursor buttons if I'm not mistaken so that could be awkward if I'm doing stuff on the fly. So I fear while the Blofeld may sound great, the menu diving may be problematic.

The Poly Evolver I would only get for the VS type sounds and not even use the analog parts most of the time so that may not be worth the financial investment. Plus the fact it's discontinued makes servicing it a problem as well should any issues arise. There's a guy in my city charging $2500 for a mint one and honestly...I'm really on the fence about it.

Did you ever consider the Prophet 12? Other than that only John Bowen's Solaris and Modal Electronics' 002 come to my mind as alternatives.

I fear I may run into the same scenario with the Prophet 12 as I might with the Poly Evolver in that I really only need the Digital side and not the analog, thus I'm not utilizing the instruments full potential...with the 12 or the Modal it's even a higher price range and wouldn't be worth the investment for just a specific sound.

[DavidDever]

I fear I may run into the same scenario with the Prophet 12 as I might with the Poly Evolver in that I really only need the Digital side and not the analog, thus I'm not utilizing the instruments full potential...with the 12 or the Modal it's even a higher price range and wouldn't be worth the investment for just a specific sound.

Sounds like a Blofeld, then - as it's not very expensive to get started.

For what it's worth, I survived for a few years in the late 90's with an Oberheim Matrix-1000, E-mu ESI-32, and a Waldorf MicroWave II, and never felt as if I was missing a trick in terms of capabilities for live performance. The Waldorf filter emulations have only gotten better since IMHO....

[Paul Dither]

I fear I may run into the same scenario with the Prophet 12 as I might with the Poly Evolver in that I really only need the Digital side and not the analog, thus I'm not utilizing the instruments full potential...with the 12 or the Modal it's even a higher price range and wouldn't be worth the investment for just a specific sound.

Sounds like a Blofeld, then - as it's not very expensive to get started.

Agreed. If true analog sections aren't necessary, then that's probably the most economic way to go.

[LoboLives]

I fear I may run into the same scenario with the Prophet 12 as I might with the Poly Evolver in that I really only need the Digital side and not the analog, thus I'm not utilizing the instruments full potential...with the 12 or the Modal it's even a higher price range and wouldn't be worth the investment for just a specific sound.

Sounds like a Blofeld, then - as it's not very expensive to get started.

Agreed. If true analog sections aren't necessary, then that's probably the most economic way to go.

Yeah I just fear it'll be a pain in the ass to program.

[Paul Dither]

Yeah I just fear it'll be a pain in the ass to program.

You have the choice between being a pain in the ass to program and being a pain in the ass for your wallet. 

[Sacred Synthesis]

I wouldn't spend $2,500 on a PEK, only because you should be able to find one for $2,000.

Have you considered the Studiologic Sledge?  It seems like a good compromise, with a Waldorf engine, an excellent control panel, and a reasonable price tag.

[DavidDever]

I wouldn't spend $2,500 on a PEK, only because you should be able to find one for $2,000.

Have you considered the Studiologic Sledge?  It seems like a good compromise, with a Waldorf engine, an excellent control panel, and a reasonable price tag.

...And five octaves, to wit:




Or, if you're feeling flush with cash:

[LoboLives]

I wouldn't spend $2,500 on a PEK, only because you should be able to find one for $2,000.

Have you considered the Studiologic Sledge?  It seems like a good compromise, with a Waldorf engine, an excellent control panel, and a reasonable price tag.

The Canadian Dollar isn't helping. The Prophet 6 is listed as $2699-$2899 USD roughly....I paid $4000. So....Sort of take what I can get at this point lol

[LoboLives]

I wouldn't spend $2,500 on a PEK, only because you should be able to find one for $2,000.

Have you considered the Studiologic Sledge?  It seems like a good compromise, with a Waldorf engine, an excellent control panel, and a reasonable price tag.

Haven't heard much about the Sledge. Can it do those DX/FM/VS type sounds I'm after? I heard it's mostly just virtual analog.

[Sacred Synthesis]

I think you should take a serious look at the Sledge. 

Here's Sweetwater's page: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Sledge2

Some wavetable samples:


And this guy has many excellent instructive videos on using the Sledge:

[LoboLives]

Cool! Thanks! Is it real Wavetable/FM synthesis on board or are they just sample based?

[Sacred Synthesis]

I believe it has all three - digital oscillators, wavetables (from the PPG), and samples.  But I haven't researched the Sledge for a while, nor have I played one.  Perhaps the others know better.  Soundquest had one.

Take a look at this thread: http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,570.0.html