Prophet '08 Vs. REV2

dsetto

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2017, 09:39:12 AM »
And I'm part of the school that defines most massive bass comes from simplicity. Simple wave, strong signal. (I.e., sans sub-osc.) But, I'm in the primary years of school. ... To me, complexity in bass can lead to interesting bass, for sure -- in an "orchestral" sense; even if not orchestral music.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 09:42:56 AM by dsetto »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2017, 09:51:33 AM »
When the Prophet '08 is set to Layer Mode, you have four oscillators at your disposal - three for the main pitch, and one for a sub octave - and all of these can use pulse width modulation if you like.  To understate the truth, I've never felt limited with this arrangement.  I understand that the Rev2 offers even more, and that's great.  But the P'08 is in no way inadequate for producing monstrous basses, both simple and complex.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 09:59:41 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2018, 11:14:56 AM »
An interesting comparison video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97lWx_NwdKE

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #83 on: March 05, 2018, 10:10:37 PM »
An interesting comparison video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97lWx_NwdKE

Thanks!  The video confirms that there's not a lot of difference between the basic guts of the two instruments.

The Rev 2 had it over the P-08 on one patch because it had more voices.  Otherwise, I did not hear an appreciable difference.   
Jim Thorburn .  Toys-  Dave Smith: Prophet 5, Rev 4; Prophet 08; Pro 2; Prophet 12 module; EastWest Orchestral soft synths; Yamaha S-90; Yamaha Montage 8, Yamaha DX-7; KARP Odyssey; Ensoniq ESQ-1.  All run through a Cubase DAW with a Tascam DM-24 board.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #84 on: August 17, 2019, 08:53:25 PM »
I've listened to this video over and over again, and every time the Prophet '08 sounds so much better than the Rev2.  It's annoying.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 09:36:56 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Razmo

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #85 on: August 17, 2019, 11:43:50 PM »
Listening to the comparison video, yes there are subtle differenses, no doubt, but I would have expected that for several reasons. The first, and most obvious is that the guy is playing presets live... his exact playing will never be the same each time, even if it's the same keys or melody... things like velocity and onset/duration/release of the keys will all have an influence on the percieved sound.

On top of this, there will most likely also be some component differences in the analog signal chain. The REV2 most likely do not use the same OpAmps, resistors, caps etc. and maybe even the curcuits of these has changed a bit, even if the functionality is the same as the original, and these small deviances will lead to slight changes in the tone between the two... they are both analog machines afterall.

But to decide weather one or the other sounds "better" is certainly a personal thing... you may be used to the original more, and find that better as a result... you may have the new one, and are used to it's tone, and find that better... not to mention the added polyphony and FX may make you prefer that one.

I really do not understand why anyone would even compare these two... if you like the first version better, then just get that one, it's even cheaper now than before the REV2 arrived. To be honest, I'm kind of tired of all these comparison video's between instruments, even more when they compare completely diffrerent synths, and always want f***** everything to sound like a MOOG... if you want the MOOG sound, go get a MOOG!  ::)
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Sacred Synthesis

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #86 on: August 18, 2019, 09:58:52 AM »
I really do not understand why anyone would even compare these two... if you like the first version better, then just get that one, it's even cheaper now than before the REV2 arrived. To be honest, I'm kind of tired of all these comparison video's between instruments, even more when they compare completely diffrerent synths, and always want f***** everything to sound like a MOOG... if you want the MOOG sound, go get a MOOG!  ::)

Who said anything about the Moog sound?  That topic didn't come up, nor does it have anything to do with these two instruments.

What I think the video suggests is that dumping a patch from one instrument to the other doesn't produce identical results.  Surely that's of interest to some folks.  But the comments below the video are also of interest to those who do like comparison videos, and especially those who are wondering if they should spend the money to replace a P'08 with a Rev2.  That's a valid question, even if you don't understand it.  And it is the topic of this thread.

OceanMachine

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2019, 10:51:46 AM »
There does seem to be a reoccurring theme of your posts... Are you sure you're not trying to justify to yourself being content with what you have? Reminds me of someone who tried to argue that their MODX sounded so much better than the Montage.

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2019, 05:02:10 PM »
I really do not understand why anyone would even compare these two... if you like the first version better, then just get that one, it's even cheaper now than before the REV2 arrived. To be honest, I'm kind of tired of all these comparison video's between instruments, even more when they compare completely diffrerent synths, and always want f***** everything to sound like a MOOG... if you want the MOOG sound, go get a MOOG!  ::)

Who said anything about the Moog sound?  That topic didn't come up, nor does it have anything to do with these two instruments.

What I think the video suggests is that dumping a patch from one instrument to the other doesn't produce identical results.  Surely that's of interest to some folks.  But the comments below the video are also of interest to those who do like comparison videos, and especially those who are wondering if they should spend the money to replace a P'08 with a Rev2.  That's a valid question, even if you don't understand it.  And it is the topic of this thread.


Honestly, this is just embarrassing to read. You're completely full of yourself.

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #89 on: August 18, 2019, 09:28:26 PM »
There does seem to be a reoccurring theme of your posts... Are you sure you're not trying to justify to yourself being content with what you have? Reminds me of someone who tried to argue that their MODX sounded so much better than the Montage.

The channel owner who made the above video said the patches "were all loaded to Rev2 from the Prophet 08 via the Soundtower libarian/editor - i.e. the settings were exactly the same."  And in responding to a critic, he also said this:
 
"DSI actually shared this video through their social media channels (twitter, facebook) - do you think they would have shared it if they thought the comparison was (in your words) 'not properly done'?"

One video doesn't say it all, but it might say something.

It doesn't matter which instrument I have in the end.  I'm happy with the Prophet '08, and I expect I'll be happy or even happier with the Rev2.  But I would prefer to do a side-by-side comparison. 

I value the opinions expressed here, especially the detailed comments by Fuseball and Jason.  But I don't think this debate should be discouraged.  Otherwise, it's as if this forum allows only the popular view to be discussed.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 09:47:58 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Razmo

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #90 on: August 18, 2019, 10:06:54 PM »
I really do not understand why anyone would even compare these two... if you like the first version better, then just get that one, it's even cheaper now than before the REV2 arrived. To be honest, I'm kind of tired of all these comparison video's between instruments, even more when they compare completely diffrerent synths, and always want f***** everything to sound like a MOOG... if you want the MOOG sound, go get a MOOG!  ::)

Who said anything about the Moog sound?  That topic didn't come up, nor does it have anything to do with these two instruments.

What I think the video suggests is that dumping a patch from one instrument to the other doesn't produce identical results.  Surely that's of interest to some folks.  But the comments below the video are also of interest to those who do like comparison videos, and especially those who are wondering if they should spend the money to replace a P'08 with a Rev2.  That's a valid question, even if you don't understand it.  And it is the topic of this thread.

It was an analogy... that's why I mentioned the MOOG sound... it's the same with P08 and REV2... if you like the 08 sound, then just get that one instead of complaining that the REV2 only sound 99,9% like it... and I was talking in general terms, not at anyone specific... but people who keep complaining that one synth does not sound like another are just getting a bit anoying really... and the MOOG is a good example of this... that's why i used it as an example... it's one of those synths that many keep comparing to other synths, as if it was the god of synths or something.
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Razmo

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #91 on: August 18, 2019, 10:21:10 PM »
There does seem to be a reoccurring theme of your posts... Are you sure you're not trying to justify to yourself being content with what you have? Reminds me of someone who tried to argue that their MODX sounded so much better than the Montage.

The channel owner who made the above video said the patches "were all loaded to Rev2 from the Prophet 08 via the Soundtower libarian/editor - i.e. the settings were exactly the same."  And in responding to a critic, he also said this:
 
"DSI actually shared this video through their social media channels (twitter, facebook) - do you think they would have shared it if they thought the comparison was (in your words) 'not properly done'?"

One video doesn't say it all, but it might say something.

It doesn't matter which instrument I have in the end.  I'm happy with the Prophet '08, and I expect I'll be happy or even happier with the Rev2.  But I would prefer to do a side-by-side comparison. 

I value the opinions expressed here, especially the detailed comments by Fuseball and Jason.  But I don't think this debate should be discouraged.  Otherwise, it's as if this forum allows only the popular view to be discussed.

But still, he is playing the two synths live... if he was to do a FAIR comparison, he would have recorded his live performance via MIDI, and made sure that it's the exact same sequence with exact same velocities etc... otherwise the very VERY little differences you can hear could partially be due to deviances in the playing. Also, is there a written consensus that just because Sequential post something, that then it is per definition "done right"? ... with deviances so subtle as those in the demos, I'd say that they could very well be partly down to different velocities, unless velocity was completely turned off... and there is no information on this in the videos, so who knows.

Another thing that I noted personaly was that especially sounds that involve FM and ones with significant amounts of resonance was also the sounds that sounded most different... this is logical since these curcuits are usually quite unstable pitch wise... there are even subtle deviances in regard to these features per voice on a single instrument, so it would only be reasonable that this would create some differences between the two instruments.

Honestly I do not see anything wrong in comparing the two... even deciding your own favourite (that's everyones right)... it's when users start to call one or the other "better than the other" in general terms that I have a tendency to get a bit annoyed... and I see this trend quite often when the old and new are being compared... those who (for some strange reason) have the older versions, almost always seem to favor their older device... they compare the two with the older one being the reference.... i mean... why ask if the REV2 sounds the same, why not ask if the P08 sounds the same as the REV2?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 10:26:23 PM by Razmo »
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Sacred Synthesis

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #92 on: August 18, 2019, 10:26:31 PM »
I'm not complaining; I'm only comparing.  It only makes sense with two instruments that have such a close relationship.  One is a reference point for the other.  If I were complaining, then I'd be criticizing the Rev2.  If you want to see complaints, read the comments under that video.  I've made no such harsh comments.

You may not like comparisons, but others do.  They can be helpful is assessing an instrument.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 10:28:03 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Razmo

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #93 on: August 18, 2019, 10:33:48 PM »
I'm not complaining; I'm only comparing.  It only makes sense with two instruments that have such a close relationship.  One is a reference point for the other.  If I were complaining, then I'd be criticizing the Rev2.  If you want to see complaints, read the comments under that video.  I've made no such harsh comments.

You may not like comparisons, but others do.  They can be helpful is assessing an instrument.

Not complaining!? ... then what exactly did you mean by saying that the P08 sounds SO much better than the REV2, it's anoying?  ;D
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Razmo

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #94 on: August 18, 2019, 10:40:13 PM »
I'm not complaining; I'm only comparing.  It only makes sense with two instruments that have such a close relationship.  One is a reference point for the other.  If I were complaining, then I'd be criticizing the Rev2.  If you want to see complaints, read the comments under that video.  I've made no such harsh comments.

You may not like comparisons, but others do.  They can be helpful is assessing an instrument.

And please... I do NOT have a problem with comparisons... but why is it irritating you, that the REV2 does not sound the same as the P08? ... What exactly is it that you feel is so much worse with the REV2 sound? ... I'm having a hard time figuring out, if it's because there is a certain character about the 08 that you like better, or if you are just so accustomed to your own '08s that this is what is driving your opinion? ... are you irritated over the REV2 tone in general, or just that it does not sound exactly like the 08?

Personally I never bought a REV2 with the intent of getting a machine that sounded completely like the 08, I asumed it would be very close though, and I do feel that it is... I actually bought it because it can do so much more than the 08... Personally the subtle differences are so small, that I do not mind at all... i did not buy it to reproduce sounds from the 08 at all either, I bought it to create sounds that the 08 was not able to produce, otherwise i would definitely have gotten the 08 instead, as it's a lot cheaper these days.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 10:45:17 PM by Razmo »
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Sacred Synthesis

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #95 on: August 18, 2019, 10:46:27 PM »
Why ask if the REV2 sounds the same, why not ask if the P08 sounds the same as the REV2?

That's what I am asking - if the two have the same sonic character. 

I've worked with the Prophet '08 for a full ten years now.  I've read all the criticisms about its filter and this and that, but I don't care.  I love the sound and have made it my own.  It suits my music just right.  But the Rev2 adds a few features that I've long desired.  I'm thrilled.  Only, I want to maintain the types of patches with the same sonic character as the older instrument.  It's that simple.  So, when someone comes along with a video claiming the two instruments sound substantially different, it gets my attention.  It got the attention of quite a few other people also, who claimed the same in the comments section. 

This is not science; it's musical opinion.  But it's a portion of the mass of information that goes into making an online decision.  Now are all those people wrong who have the unpopular view?  I honestly don't know, but I do consider their input.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 10:58:30 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Sacred Synthesis

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #96 on: August 18, 2019, 10:49:02 PM »
I'm not complaining; I'm only comparing.  It only makes sense with two instruments that have such a close relationship.  One is a reference point for the other.  If I were complaining, then I'd be criticizing the Rev2.  If you want to see complaints, read the comments under that video.  I've made no such harsh comments.

You may not like comparisons, but others do.  They can be helpful is assessing an instrument.

Not complaining!? ... then what exactly did you mean by saying that the P08 sounds SO much better than the REV2, it's anoying?  ;D

Let's not split hairs over words.  I've said the P'08 sounds better in one video, but I don't believe I ever said the Rev2 sounds bad.  I've never heard the Rev2 sound bad.  Why would I be saving up for a lousy-sounding instrument?  My flattering words have been all over the Rev2 Youtube videos from the day it first came out.  But if my use of the word "better" really annoys you, I'm sorry, but we just have to live with each other here.  It's not the first time we've disagreed, and it won't be the last.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 11:02:44 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Razmo

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #97 on: August 18, 2019, 11:01:15 PM »
Why ask if the REV2 sounds the same, why not ask if the P08 sounds the same as the REV2?

That's what I am asking - if the two have the same sonic character. 

I've worked with the Prophet '08 for a full ten years now.  I've read all the criticisms about its filter and this and that, but I don't care.  I love the sound and have made it my own.  It suits my music just right.  But the Rev2 adds a few features that I've long desired.  I'm thrilled.  Only, I want to maintain the types of patches with the same sonic character as the older instrument.  It's that simple.  So, when someone comes along with a video claiming the two instruments sound substantially different, it gets my attention.  It got the attention of quite a few other people also, who claimed the same. 

This is not science; it's musical opinion.  But it's a portion of the mass of information that goes into making an entirely online decision.

If it sounds "substancially different" is exactly a personal opinion... I for one do not feel that it sound substancially different... it has some subtle nuance differences, sure, but I would never have expected anything else of a replica of an analog synth.

I'm aware that you want the same sonic character, especially if you want to use your old presets, and not want to tweak them a little... because I really think that this is all that really matters when it comes to those differencies... don't forget that it's EXACTLY the same chip in both machines, so there is NO difference in what comes out of them... it has to be changes to curcuits AROUND the chips, and the digital control engine that creates the differences... thus, the only thing that might have to be done is tweak the old sounds a bit... maybe the Audio Mod range deviates a bit, maybe the cutoff or resonance... small tweaks might get the excact same character back, you don't know until you actually tried that.

If you just want to be able to load in your old presets, and have them sound 100% like the 08, then i can understand your disappointment... but that just do not make the REV2 sound "substancially worse" in my opinion... it just sounds a tiny bit different... that's it... I'm perfectly sure, that if you forgot about those nitpicking comparisons of that video, and actually TRIED a REV2 out, creating something from scratch, that you really would not care at all... but I guess we won't know if that is the case until you've tried that ;)

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Sacred Synthesis

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #98 on: August 18, 2019, 11:12:30 PM »
All good information.  I appreciate it, Razmo. 

I won't be dumping any programs from the Prophet '08 to the Rev2.  Not do I ever use factory programs.  When I get a Rev2, I'll consider it a fresh start and design all new programs from its panel.  And if I'm satisfied with the results, then out will go my P'08s.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 11:15:15 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Razmo

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #99 on: August 18, 2019, 11:17:09 PM »
I'm not complaining; I'm only comparing.  It only makes sense with two instruments that have such a close relationship.  One is a reference point for the other.  If I were complaining, then I'd be criticizing the Rev2.  If you want to see complaints, read the comments under that video.  I've made no such harsh comments.

You may not like comparisons, but others do.  They can be helpful is assessing an instrument.

Not complaining!? ... then what exactly did you mean by saying that the P08 sounds SO much better than the REV2, it's anoying?  ;D

Let's not split hairs over words.  I've said the P'08 sounds better in one video, but I don't believe I ever said the Rev2 sounds bad.  I've never heard the Rev2 sound bad.  Why would I be saving up for a lousy-sounding instrument?  My flattering words have been all over the Rev2 Youtube videos from the day it first came out.  But if my use of the word "better" really annoys you, I'm sorry, but we just have to live with each other here.  It's not the first time we've disagreed, and it won't be the last.

Actually I could not care less what you feel about the REV2 or the 08 for that matter, and neither should you... I'm not a person that is moved by others personal opinions on something at all, I'm used to the fact that people think and have different opinions than myself... why would I even care, it makes no sense.

But this is a public discussion, and it triggered me because just as you felt the urge to say your opinion, so did I... let's just accept that our opinions do not match and let it stay at that.
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