Prophet '08 Vs. REV2

[Propheteer]

I guess people have moved on, but I thought there would be more commentary and reflection on the new versus the old.  Perhaps the instrument with the greatest number of features will always win in the synthesizer world. 

As I wait for the Rev2 to fully mature and have all its issues ironed out, I am indeed enjoying the simplicity of the old fully-vetted Prophet '08, and feeling quite sorry for some of you.

Don't feel sorry for me, I'll take the rev2 with that one minor (ish) problem over a prophet 08 simply because I couldn't justify the prophet 08 as a synth without sub or waveshaping, which are imo crucial to making the curtis DCOs sound more organic. Not that I hate the 08 or anything but the REV2 is a much better synth from interface to build quality to sound. And I don't think at all 'more features always wins', but when those 'features' directly impact the tone (or can?) then yes.

TBH even If I never swapped out my board I'd be more than happy with the synth *sound wise* and what I'm getting from it in music. I can't help but think many of these issues must read far worse in text than they are in reality, I've never been so pleased with a synth and have had many synths. My synth hunting days are over thanks to REV2. I didn't feel prophet 6, OB-6, Prophet 08, JD-XA, Deepmind12 or any other modern synth was quite there overall but rev2 is.

[Sacred Synthesis]

That's all good to hear.  I presume I'll feel the same.  My point was, it's always nice to have a fully-vetted instrument, whereas the vetting process itself is a bit painful to observe.

[jazzygb1]

That's all good to hear.  I presume I'll feel the same.  My point was, it's always nice to have a fully-vetted instrument, whereas the vetting process itself is a bit painful to observe.

Well you know the saying ...'don't live on the cutting edge if you're not prepared to bleed'!

Despite the issues I and others have experienced, overall I'm still very happy with my purchase and I have to say the response from my retailer SXproaudio was excellent.

They shipped a replacement and arranged for the courier to pick up the faulty REV2 whilst dropping it off - that's about as hassle free as you can get!

The response from DSI support was also very good, so all in all still a mostly very positive experience.

PLUS I've been able to enjoy the synth now and (hopefully), have maybe helped others to diagnose their synths too, so I get a warm, fuzzy feeling inside....oh wait....sorry no that's the curry from earlier!

[josephdviviano]

While the Rev 2 is an obvious improvement the price gap between selling a used 08 and buying a new Rev 2, I suspect, mean most people are **not** upgrading -- they are either continuing to run with the 08 (like me) or buying the Rev 2 as their first foray into this synth and slowly learning about all it has to offer.

I've found the 08's engine so deep that years later I'm still discovering new things about it sound wise. I've recently been taming the audio-frequency LFO and audio mod features to get lots of dirty-sounding FM patches that I had no idea were hiding in there. I suspect it will be years before all these new rev 2 owners discover exactly how deep the synth goes, and then the real comparisons can be done!

[Sacred Synthesis]

Well said.  I have in no way grown tired or bored with the Prophet '08.  The instrument still totally fascinates me, and there is still much to discover within it.

[Gerry Havinga]

Well said.  I have in no way grown tired or bored with the Prophet '08.  The instrument still totally fascinates me, and there is still much to discover within it.

This is very encouraging, as a first time DSI synth owner I am really looking forward to a long "relationship" with the Rev2. Knowing it has hidden depths and there is always more to learn helps in those frustrating moments when I don't seem to be able to get the sound I want 

[Sacred Synthesis]

I had a Prophet '08 for perhaps two years before I really took to it.  I used it with an amount of satisfaction, yet only of a moderate degree.  But after I discovered the stereo arrangement that I presently use, the instrument became like a third arm.  This arrangement personalized it for me, gave it a distinct recognizable domestic signature.  Virtually every patch then sounded lovely to my ears. 

Even with the Rev2 waiting on the wings, I am in no way anxious to sell my Prophet '08's.  In fact, I still consider staying with them and even getting another one to complete the set up.  I'm certain I could happily make due with them and nothing else for the rest of my musical days.  There's something even comforting in the thought of it, of leaving the buy-and-sell and buy-and-sell circus, even the forum, and passing all my synthesizer time, not in drooling over NAMM, or posting, or daily scouring the Internet for synth news and instrument demonstrations, but rather, sitting at the wonderful Prophet '08 and producing musical beauty to the degree I'm able, by the grace of God.  In fact, that's pretty much how things are now, happily, and should be more so in the future.

Of course, I also have the Poly Evolvers.  But still, these are as close to a Prophet '08 as you can get.  They're Prophet '08's with a few additional things thrown in.

What primarily attracts me to the Rev2 is the onboard delay - which will eliminate the need for an effects rack or pedal - and the greater number of voices.  Aside from these, nothing else is actually needed.  For me, the Rev2 will simply be a Prophet '08+.  The Prophet '08 in either form is enough for me; period. 

[Sacred Synthesis]

While the Rev 2 is an obvious improvement the price gap between selling a used 08 and buying a new Rev 2, I suspect, mean most people are **not** upgrading -- they are either continuing to run with the 08 (like me) or buying the Rev 2 as their first foray into this synth and slowly learning about all it has to offer.

Yes, this unfortunately is the case.  Although I haven't yet put up a Prophet '08 for sale, I've been watching the used prices.  I don't think we can hope to get more than $1,000 for a Prophet '08 PE Keyboard in excellent condition, and I doubt this will change unless one of us can invent one of those the-old-is-better-than-the-new type arguments.  This makes it difficult to upgrade to the Rev2, which then makes you consider keeping the Prophet '08 for some time.

[Sacred Synthesis]

One thing that I think speaks well for the Prophet '08 is the fact that YouTube is loaded with many videos in which the instrument is used to make music.  It doesn't seem to be a popular noise-maker, but much more inspires its users to make actual pieces of music - very much in the synthesizer domain - and many of them are quite impressive. 

It will be interesting to see if the Rev2 inspires the same response.  It certainly should, but unfortunately, the instrument is still in the first phase of its life when users are excited and prone to make only short demonstrations in a rush.  After the limelight has been passed to other new synthesizers, hopefully the Rev2 will age and mellow and be viewed at last as a serious musical instrument fit for producing serious compositions.

[Gerry Havinga]

One thing that I think speaks well for the Prophet '08 is the fact that YouTube is loaded with many videos in which the instrument is used to make music.  It doesn't seem to be a popular noise-maker, but much more inspires its users to make actual pieces of music - very much in the synthesizer domain - and many of them are quite impressive. 

It will be interesting to see if the Rev2 inspires the same response.  It certainly should, but unfortunately, the instrument is still in the first phase of its life when users are excited and prone to make only short demonstrations in a rush.  After the limelight has been passed to other new synthesizers, hopefully the Rev2 will age and mellow and be viewed at last as a serious musical instrument fit for producing serious compositions.

Yes well put. In my case the Rev2 seamlessly slotted into my workflow. I already wrote three fresh tracks, using my own patches within a matter of a few weeks after I got the Rev2 and was over the excitement 

It is helping me big time moving away from VST plugin based composing and sound design. At the moment I am only using Bitwig for percussion and driving the MIDI channels (notes and sometimes CCs). Very nice experience to have such an amazing synth to work and play with.

[dsetto]

On the circus. It's an interesting thing. The circus can be a water cooler, a river where healthy info exchanges. But, it has the other side. ... Your contributions here elevate.

[Jason]

What primarily attracts me to the Rev2 is the onboard delay - which will eliminate the need for an effects rack or pedal - and the greater number of voices.  Aside from these, nothing else is actually needed.  For me, the Rev2 will simply be a Prophet '08+. 

The effects are also a big improvement for me, as are the variable waveshapes. I think the better keybed is a big improvement that you will enjoy. Another addition that I really like (that you will not) is the ability to turn Slop up to higher levels. I find that turning it up to around 16 or so sometimes helps with getting more of an old Oberheim sound, which is a sound that I really love. Having additional voices seems like a big plus for achieving your stereo arrangement (which I also use), and yet thus far, I continue to still do it your way with an '08 module. If I didn't use splits and layers, one board would now do it for me. But because I do use splits and layers, and I may have to purchase a Rev2 module. As I've mentioned before, the only thing I don't like about the Rev2 is the display, which is too small for me. I prefer the display of the '08.

[Propheteer]

One thing that I think speaks well for the Prophet '08 is the fact that YouTube is loaded with many videos in which the instrument is used to make music.  It doesn't seem to be a popular noise-maker, but much more inspires its users to make actual pieces of music - very much in the synthesizer domain - and many of them are quite impressive. 

It will be interesting to see if the Rev2 inspires the same response.  It certainly should, but unfortunately, the instrument is still in the first phase of its life when users are excited and prone to make only short demonstrations in a rush.  After the limelight has been passed to other new synthesizers, hopefully the Rev2 will age and mellow and be viewed at last as a serious musical instrument fit for producing serious compositions.

Firstly, and don't take this the wrong way, I've seen it often.. it sounds more like your thoughts are just trying to justify why you want to keep the '08(s) and not advance to the next level. I see it all the time. Everything you've said is pretty much a moot point concerning actual capability and usability. Everything the Prophet 08 is to you, the Rev2 is to me (and others). Many of us never had a Prophet 08 (though I played with one quite a few times though it didn't quite fit the bill overall for me in a few areas - areas that have been amply addressed by the Rev2).

In other words you seem to be hypothesising reasons to stick with the 08 over the Rev2s because of the hassles of selling the 08 or finding extra cash for a '2, but some of us just had to go spend £1200 - £1900 on these things without a prophet 08 to sell towards it so I can't see that as any argument. Sell the 08s asap before their prices drop even further and get a Rev2, it's awesome in so many ways the Prophet 08 never was. And I mean all those little additions, the general feel, the keybed, the proper power cable, the beautiful buttons (use and looks), the refined inspiring layout for programming, then the actual sound enhancements which I feel you, and some others, are playing down to make it seem like Prophet 08 is 'basically as good'. It isn't. If this was a different synth by a different company vs a Prophet 08 it would be more clear, but because it's obviously masquerading under the Prophet 08 mk2 banner to many I feel its making people ignore the genuine greatness of the REV2 as its own thing.

I too like the guy above have made a ton of *real* music and custom sounds with Rev2 since I've had it, it replaced other synths in my tracks (some inc vintage VCO polys) and I find it inspiring, productive and capable of almost anything I can think of in terms of what I need in actual music. There is no 'honeymoon' period here or blind devotion to it as a shiny new toy that can only be used for YT demos or something, it's straight into the studio, it's making music, making sounds the Prophet 08 couldn't.. easily, sounding better than the 08 in how organic and rich it is compared to the 08 and with tasteful use of the FX section opens up a whole new universe of inspiring sounds without going down the rabbit hole of confusion/drowning in FX like some other modern analogs do.

In other words it's a stunning synth every bit as good as the prophet 08 and then 50% better again. There is zero argument for preferring the 08 over the rev2, unless you want to get seriously nerdy and go on about the logo (I honestly prefer the new logo was never a fan of the gaudy old font on the old prophets personally this looks built for the future not the past), as for the screen I have good eyesight and have no issues with it, it's really good and has a massive viewing angle, I can read it from 6 feet away it's so sharp and vivid, and it looks classy too because being black OLED it just blends in with the analog ethos more and keeps it focussed on the controls and playing. The screen doesn't need using that much at all anyway, rev2 is definitely far better thought out than the 08 when it comes to menus and programming and hands on.

So, what I'm saying is until you have one all your text is just supposition and justification for keeping what you have without taking a risk or 'upgrading' (and believe me it's an upgrade and then some), and lets not even joke about starting rumours of 'older sounds better' because the Prophet 08 is, as we know, one of the most marmite synths on the market, many people hate it as much as love it and Rev2 deserves to fly on its own sound, powers and qualities without being held back or saddled with falsehoods by disgruntled P'08 owners. It can sound like a Prophet 08 but it doesn't have to, it can sound far far better and do far far more. That is all there is to that debate. Other than if you can justify/afford to buy it. If you have (3?) prophet 08s I really don't know what's stopping you, you have assets to sell off to get you it. You don't need more than one prophet 08 esp if you got a 16 voice rev2. I will be selling some of my old synths because I no longer need then with Rev2 on board. In fact I'll get down to just the rev2 a piano and guitar and I'll be done, after years of collecting old and new synths, buying and selling, had over 100 synths in the past 15 years, those days are over. It's time for music not synth hunting, and Rev2 has been the first new synth that's finally allowed me to feel that way.

YMMV but I seriously doubt it.


p.s I've got the 8 voice version but am seriously considering buying the board in the future when I have spare cash, the synth is that good and even in non-stacked mode I've made some gorgeous long release sounds that get note stealing even with 8 voice poly, so 16 voice would make this a world beater. It's also perfect for those who want to layer and multi-sequence, and entire analog sound creation universe in one sexy board! NO messing around with 2 or more space taking units + loads of cables/FX boxes.

[josephdviviano]

In other words it's a stunning synth every bit as good as the prophet 08 and then 50% better again.

... the Prophet 08 is, as we know, one of the most marmite synths on the market, many people hate it as much as love it and Rev2 deserves to fly on its own sound, powers and qualities without being held back or saddled with falsehoods by disgruntled P'08 owners. It can sound like a Prophet 08 but it doesn't have to, it can sound far far better and do far far more.

I've played the Rev 2 a bunch at the store and I'm a little perplexed by this. The sound exactly the same with a few extra (welcome) features! The thing I miss most is the polyphonic step sequencer -- as I rarely max out the modulation matrix as it is on the 08, when I need a sub oscillator I'm happy using a stacked patch, and the other features (waveshaping etc.) are not all that important to me. I'd rank this feature set a good but incremental improvement over the 08 architecture, and since the resale value of the 08 is so low now, if I was to sell for an upgrade to spend 1000s of dollars the prophet 12 would be a much more likely target. Both the 08 and the rev 2 are going to be considered great synthesizers in 2050 -- I don't think the upgrades on the rev 2 render the 08 obsolete in the slightest.

I disagree with Sacred, there's no way the 08 sounds better than the Rev, or vice versa. There's an incremental feature set upgrade on the Rev 2. But honestly, if I was starting fresh and had to choose between a 08 for 1000 and a Rev 2 for close to 2000 after tax, I'd consider the 08 the better value.

I suspect the value comparison will equalize in 8 months when all of the new rev 2 owners come to the same realization that the original 08 owners did about the 'weak' filter, 'thin' sound oscillators, etc (I don't agree with these criticisms at all by the way). When there are a bunch of used Rev 2s on the market, perhaps the price spread will better reflect the feature spread.

[Sacred Synthesis]

One thing that I think speaks well for the Prophet '08 is the fact that YouTube is loaded with many videos in which the instrument is used to make music.  It doesn't seem to be a popular noise-maker, but much more inspires its users to make actual pieces of music - very much in the synthesizer domain - and many of them are quite impressive. 

It will be interesting to see if the Rev2 inspires the same response.  It certainly should, but unfortunately, the instrument is still in the first phase of its life when users are excited and prone to make only short demonstrations in a rush.  After the limelight has been passed to other new synthesizers, hopefully the Rev2 will age and mellow and be viewed at last as a serious musical instrument fit for producing serious compositions.

Firstly, and don't take this the wrong way, I've seen it often.. it sounds more like your thoughts are just trying to justify why you want to keep the '08(s) and not advance to the next level. I see it all the time. Everything you've said is pretty much a moot point concerning actual capability and usability. Everything the Prophet 08 is to you, the Rev2 is to me (and others). Many of us never had a Prophet 08 (though I played with one quite a few times though it didn't quite fit the bill overall for me in a few areas - areas that have been amply addressed by the Rev2).

Goodness gracious, that's an overly analytical misreading of my posting on this subject and filled with mistaken assumptions.  I have every intention of selling both of my Prophet '08 Keyboards and at least one Module.  But meanwhile, I'm perfectly content using the instruments I've got.  That's my point.  Whether Prophet '08 or Rev2, I'm happy.  The appearance of the Rev2 does not mean that suddenly the Prophet '08 is a miserable instrument.  They're both superb, and any musician that has one or the other should feel blessed indeed.  Simple as that.   

If you took my statement about "the-old-is-better-than-the-new" to be troubling or discouraging, note that I referred to "inventing" the argument.  In other words, that statement was a joke; it was bit of sarcasm.  If you don't believe me, then please read my original post that started this thread.  I'm presently biting my nails waiting for the Rev2 to fully mature and have any and all of its problems resolved, so that I can then buy several of them.  Believe me, I don't need to be talked into buying the instrument, or persuaded that it is in various ways better than the Prophet '08.  That's just old news, and I'm way ahead of you.

By the way, I was asking for some of these very improvements to the Prophet '08 before this forum existed, and I have been cheering for the Rev2 since it was first announced.  But DSI went beyond my hopes, adding quite a bit more to the instrument.  Excellent; I'm all for it, even though I don't need some of it.  They've done a superb job.  But meanwhile, I have no choice but to continue making music with my assortment of Prophet '08's.  I'm entirely happy with that and won't be made unhappy, simply because a newer version of the instrument is now available. 

Please don't misunderstand the ability to be content with what one has to be some sort of inability to move on.  Contentment is not a disability; it's an advantageous ability.

[Sacred Synthesis]

The first post from this thread:

We human beings are funny creatures.  From reading around and taking mental notes, I suspect there will develop a pro-Prophet '08/anti-Rev2 party.  And I hope I'm not a founding member of it, because I'm totally excited about the REV2 and wish it nothing but success!

I anticipate the new party will mirror the Minimoog original Model D vs. re-issued Model D arguments.  Since DSI says they're using new technology for the new instrument, could it really sound exactly the same as the Prophet '08?  I don't know myself, but there lies the opportunity for the new party's platform: the new REV2, with its updated technology and onboard effects, just doesn't sound as pure and organic as the venerable old Prophet '08.  After all, we could even add the word "vintage" to the discussion.  Ah well, I'm just predicting. 

I certainly want to favor the REV2.

[Sacred Synthesis]

And another post:

Fuseball -
 
You're right; since these two instruments are so similar, why go through the trouble of choosing the new one?  I'd say consider this thread (http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,1062.0.html). 

Personally, I think there are enough differences to the REV2 to make it worthwhile switching over.  Having onboard delay and eight more voices are already enough reasons to convince me.  But another consideration, which probably won't persuade many people, is simply the differences of age.  I had already intended to sell my current Prophet' 08's in order to buy new ones from DSI, just as a matter of having new instruments with new parts, since my instruments are five or six years old by now and I intended to keep them for years to come.  I think this is justifiable, since I very seldom buy instruments.  The Prophet REV2 is an opportunity to do just that, plus get a whole bunch of additional features.  It's true, though, that it won't be like getting a new instrument, but only a very familiar one with a few perks.  Still, that's good enough.   

If you review all the posts in this thread, you'll see that a number of people have repeatedly expressed the same sentiments:

"Is the new really better than the old?  Has the new omitted something from the old that I liked?  Is it worth the change, or should I continue with my trusty old Prophet '08?" 

Some folks have even expressed disappointment with the Rev2's smaller screen and it's original awkwardness in copying layers.  So be it.  These sorts of debates always follow from an older popular instrument being revised and updated.  They're reasonable questions and concerns that lead to interesting discussions about both instruments.  And then, some folks dig in their heels and say,

"I'm not budging; the old is much better than the new." 

Again, so be it.  I'm not one of those persons, but I'm not upset that he or she has such a firm opinion.  I sympathize with both positions.  Some times it is easier to continue with the old, at least for a while, rather than buy something new that may have problems.  The old has matured and been vetted, so that keeping the old means minimal problems.  That makes sense to me, and it's one of the reasons I never buy an instrument when it is first released.  Rather, I wait about a year until everything about the instrument has been resolved, because I want to spend my time making music, not posting about problems and arranging for updates or repairs.  And then there is the concern that, thanks to an omnipresent marketing, we are always hearing and reading about the latest "new and improved" product that we absolutely "must have".  I think it's entirely prudent to have at least a modicum of suspicion about such claims and not succumb to the hype. 

To conclude my side of the debate: In my opinion, the Rev2 is a substantially improved version of the Prophet '08. But...the Prophet '08 remains a superb synthesizer that can meet many synthesists' needs for years to come.  I look forward to replacing my older instruments with the newer ones, however much time that may require.  But until then, I will be quite happy making music with the older ones.  And I expect to continue posting enthusiastic comments about the Prophet '08 - an instrument, I'm certain, that many synthesists will choose to keep, in spite of the existence of the "new and improved" Rev2.

[dsetto]

I can see how for some people the Rev2 crosses a threshold that places it in their like/want list, and whereas the Prophet ’08 did not cross that threshold.

Being personally familiar with a Rev2 and not a Prophet ’08, and knowing all their published specification differences, I feel confident in asserting that a Prophet ’08 would spectacularly meet my needs met by the Rev2.

Different people, different perspectives.

[josephdviviano]

I can see how for some people the Rev2 crosses a threshold that places it in their like/want list, and whereas the Prophet ’08 did not cross that threshold.
...
Different people, different perspectives.

Totally. If one has no outboard effects, or wants to pull off MASSIVE bass in addition to poly, or is accustomed to the polyphony afforded by typical virtual analog, the rev 2 is the only way to go.

[Sacred Synthesis]

If one...wants to pull off MASSIVE bass in addition to poly...the Rev2 is the only way to go.

Presuming, of course, that one has the sixteen-voice version of the Rev2.  The Prophet '08 can make exceptionally massive bass on one end, while having a four-voice polyphonic patch on the other.