The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

Prophet '08 Vs. REV2

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2017, 02:00:02 PM »
I guarantee you, those comparisons will be flooding Youtube any day now.  It's the most obvious demo that one would want to make right now.

With the 16 voice Rev 2, can you do the "panning" that you describe in your posts (I believe it's one Prophet 08 hard panned left and another hard panned right)?

dsetto

  • ***
  • 381
Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2017, 02:42:13 PM »
I learned this from reading Sacred Synthesis' posts. ... In Prophet '08 or Rev2 (8 or 16 voice):
Stack A outputs to one mixer channel. Stack B outputs to a different mixer channel. Those can then be panned hard L and hard R. Or anywhere else. They can either be mono. Or, they could be discrete stereo pairs.

From my limited experience with a r2, "spread" allows one stack's voices to either be all mono, or to bounce in successive voices (?) L-R; wider field as spread knob is greater.

So, the two aspects can be added to work somewhat together.

But, it is my understanding that - in the Prophet '08 rev 1 & 2 series- one cannot assign a Stack's sound to a certain position in the pan field.

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2017, 03:35:35 PM »
I guarantee you, those comparisons will be flooding Youtube any day now.  It's the most obvious demo that one would want to make right now.

With the 16 voice Rev 2, can you do the "panning" that you describe in your posts (I believe it's one Prophet 08 hard panned left and another hard panned right)?

Yes, using the two pair of output jacks on the back of the Rev2.  All the panning is done at the mixer, and since a sixteen-voice Rev2 is basically equivalent to two Prophet '08 units, it should work fine.  The advantage to this method is also that you can process each layer differently.  Some times, for example, it's beautifully effective to have much more reverb on one layer than the other.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 03:38:06 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2017, 09:15:34 AM »
An external mixer isn't needed for panning on the Rev2, we included a Fixed Pan mode in the Misc Parameters which will allow you to pan each layer hard left and hard right on the synth itself. You can read more about it on page 62 of the manual under Pan Mod Mode.
SEQUENTIAL

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2017, 12:29:30 PM »
Made to order! You guys are good.

"Pan Mod Mode: Alternate, Fixed — Designates the behavior of panning
when Pan is used as a modulation destination. Choosing alternate
directs modulation to the Pan Spread parameter, and thereby affects the
panning width of individual voices within a program. Choosing fixed
directs modulation to panning for the entire program.  (In this case you
should set Pan Spread to "zero".)  For example, if you choose Mod Wheel
as a source and Pan as a destination in the mod matrix with an Amount
setting of 127, pushing the Mod Wheel to its full (top) position will pan
the sound hard right. An Amount of -127 will pan the sound hard left
when you push the Mod Wheel to its top position."

When my time comes, I'll be very interested to experiment with this.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 08:25:27 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

dsetto

  • ***
  • 381
Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2017, 01:11:35 PM »
Absolutely wow. I remember you writing about this years back I think.

Am I getting this right? Specific pan setting is now modulatable?

For simple stereo setups, this "seemingly simple" bit allows for some good stuff.

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2017, 01:44:59 PM »
Made to order!  Wooohoo!  You guys are good.

I tried to tell you about this feature a long time ago.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2017, 01:49:55 PM »
Made to order!  Wooohoo!  You guys are good.

I tried to tell you about this feature a long time ago.

On what - the Prophet '08 or the Prophet 12?  I have to admit, I've thus far preferred to have the panning done from the mixer, since it allows you more freedom to make changes as you play.  The Rev2 may change my mind on this, but I'll only be able to decide by experimenting and comparing.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

dslsynth

  • ***
  • 1036
Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2017, 01:54:44 PM »
That Rev2 had DC source and a way to pan the voices within the voice architecture. Was hinted at by DSI earlier on as well. Anyway, Rev2 allows for voice panning within the voice architecture itself.

Interesting question: either hard pan or pan spread? Wonder if those will be useful combined? Workaround could quite likely be to use a mixer in that case.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2017, 02:55:25 PM »
I guarantee you, those comparisons will be flooding Youtube any day now.  It's the most obvious demo that one would want to make right now.

With the 16 voice Rev 2, can you do the "panning" that you describe in your posts (I believe it's one Prophet 08 hard panned left and another hard panned right)?

Yes, using the two pair of output jacks on the back of the Rev2.  All the panning is done at the mixer, and since a sixteen-voice Rev2 is basically equivalent to two Prophet '08 units, it should work fine.  The advantage to this method is also that you can process each layer differently.  Some times, for example, it's beautifully effective to have much more reverb on one layer than the other.

So it's not possible to pan 8 voice Layer 1 hard left, an 8 voice layer 2 hard right, internally, send that through The stereo FX and then just come out of main out L and R to have a true stereo sound?

In your opinion, does this "true stereo" method make the P08/Rev 2 a superior sounding synth to the P6?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 02:57:13 PM by johnnyindia »

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2017, 03:00:07 PM »
See Robot Heart's comment above and my post below it.  Honestly, I can't say too much about this feature until I've actually worked with a Rev2.  What I can say is that creating the stereo field at the mixer allows for changes made mid-music, so that the mixer itself becomes a part of the synthesizer and the performance.  I some times fade in and out one layer while I'm playing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzBVP5RCNVI), and I'm not sure what the possibilities of this would be with the Rev2.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 03:08:04 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2017, 04:21:24 AM »
My REV2 arrived last week and it its totally worth the upgrade!

After owning the Prophet '08 PE for a few years (and using it in every piece of music I've created since then) I have clearly established my issues about it - the REV2 has satisfied and exceeded those expections.

I cannot with confidence comment on the difference in sound since I sold the P'08 in February I can only rely on my ears and memory. Apart from the built-in DSP effects (which are excellent btw), my psychology tells me the REV2 sounds better.

I strongly believe the physical build and user interface of a synth are just as important than its sound.
The REV2 built way better. The physical construction is much better, especially the sheet metal. It seems thicker. I appreciate the silk screening. The knobs seem more firm. The buttons are bigger and easier to push (P'08 had *tiny* buttons). More importantly the keybed is very smooth. In fact I would easily argue the REV2 (and Prophet 6) is the best keybed I have in this room (I have 14 keybeds in here at this time). Better than my Motif XS6 (its good but the AT is too sensitive). In contrast the P'08 keybed - in my opinion is the worse in every way (sorry Dave, deep down I bet you agree).

The visuals from the LED on the oscillator section are helpful in understanding a preset. Browsing matrix mod slots shows source, amount and destination simultaneously - this is really important. The effects only have two parameters each, which is perfect. Keep it simple. For someone who enjoys shaping sounds, the REV2 is exceptionally flexible with its multiple layers and great modulation options.

I do miss the gated sequencer LEDs and it took me a bit to work my head around editing sequence data. I strongly believe there is room for a UI enhacement that would allow users to edit the gated sequencer with greater ease.

Somthing similar to this - a horizontal scolled display of seq steps.

Code: [Select]
|
|        Seq 1 Step 5           |
|  2   3   4  [5]   6   7   8   |
| 000 025 015 079  127 120 RST  |
|                               |


Also, parameter changes should display their original value alongside the new value... there is plenty of screenspace for it.

Code: [Select]
|                          |
|        Cutoff            |
|       (50) 77            |
|                          |

The REV2 is a great synth.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 04:33:36 AM by pmanderson »

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2017, 05:12:47 AM »
Just got back from having a play with a 16-voice Rev2.

I agree with everything pmanderson says above. It sounded, to me, like the resonance was leaving a bit more low-end intact than the P'08 does. On my trusty headphones it felt there was more weight to the sound, and that's without introducing effects or the sub-oscillator. The overall character hasn't changed dramatically but it sounded a little more refined and classy than before. Thankfully all my noise modulation tricks sounded right and worked as well as on the P'08. :)

For me, the shape mod on the non-pulse waveforms is the big draw. They all sound great and are begging to be modulated. Sub sounds better blended than I remember it from the Tetra too. I was also pretty impressed with the new high-pass effect.

After so much time with the P'08, the interface takes a bit of getting used to. It is better in almost all ways though and I was glad to see better LEDs for the LFOs than those in the P12 and Pro2. I found the mod matrix UI a little quirky as you have to use the value knob beside the screen to scroll through the sources for many if them. I kept wanting to use the knob that selects mod slot by accident. I strongly agree with pmanderson that displaying the stored value beside the current one would be very useful.  It's the only thing I would really miss from the P'08.

Actually, there is one thing... I found it quite difficult to tell the position of the knobs. It might have simply been the lighting in the room but the shiny knob tops made the white line difficult to see. If that's the only thing I can really pick fault with then you're doing pretty good!

I would also find helpful some kind of simple diagnostic screen that shows the voices activated as you play them. It would be good for figuring out any calibration or voicing issues, particularly once people start installing expansion cards in the 8-voice.

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2017, 07:36:52 AM »
 Really helpful posts, thanks pmanderson and Fuseball!

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2017, 09:41:40 AM »
Quote
With the 16 voice Rev 2, can you do the "panning" that you describe in your posts (I believe it's one Prophet 08 hard panned left and another hard panned right)?

I think the Rev2 will be able to recreate my favorite Poly Evolver patch (#27 Popcorgan)...   Based on what I've read, the voice architecture in the Rev2 allows for similar stereo spread and pan modulation.

Check out this program in this demo at 4:53:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WFM--WmT2M&t=293s

Voice Component Modeling (VCM) Soundset - 128 Patches for the Prophet Rev2 - NOW AVAILABLE on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/p/figZ/

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2017, 11:38:05 AM »
Excellent overviews, fellas.  Very encouraging.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2017, 04:42:30 PM »
Again, I think it's inevitable that some of us will prefer the Prophet '08 to the Prophet Rev2.  In revising an instrument, it's always the case that changes are made by the designers that seem illogical to the users.  After all, the old instrument was superb, so why change it?  Well, both Prophet synthesizers continue to be widely available, so we're free to take our pick.  Instrument designers have other ideas from those of us who play their instruments, so it's always going to be the case that there will be disagreements between us.  I've never played an instrument that didn't seem, at some point, to seriously need a change or improvement. 

I still have two P'08 Keyboards and two P'08 Modules.  I'm also looking forward to giving the Rev2 a fair chance when all the known issues are resolved.  I don't expect perfection, and I have no doubt that some changes will make me scratch my head.  But there will be improvements and advantages in the new design as well, and these will be appreciated and carefully weighed against the disappointments.  Such is life.  In the end, that instrument will win that best serves the day's musical needs.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 06:48:31 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co

Quai34

  • *
  • 42
  • FORMER PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF SAINT-BONIFA
Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #57 on: July 04, 2017, 04:20:50 PM »
Hi All,
Thanks a lot for all the very good info on the REV2...I Have one P08 and love it, I just bought a Tetra to expand it to 12 voices...I've never had more limitations in the music I play than with 12 voices...So, 16 voices, apart being great might not be necessary for me. For the expanded/increased modulations, I'm not a big tweaker so, I'm already golden with the P08...And finally, the P08 has a dedicated Eventide H9, so, no need for specific effects...At last, if I wouldn't have found two months ago a Prophet 12 at a good price (3600 CAN$ in a store with guarantee instead of 4000$ CAN$), I might have pulled the trigger on the REV2 but not now...And if I have to buy (If I have...Well, no obligation but with synths, you know...) another DSI, it will be a P6 or an OB6 module...Or both. So, I will pass on the REV2 but great choice and Congrats for the guys who just bought it.
Sincerely
Stage 2, NL2X+TC Pedals, Nord C2, Matrix 1000 X2, Proteus 2000, Prophet 12 & P08//Tetra+Eventide H9, TX802, Roland D50+PG1000, AX5080, AX keytar, Waldorf Streichfett, 2 Yorkville PS-10P, Bass: Ibanez SR1200+G&L L2000. Guitars: G&L Legacy HSS, Asat Blueboys, Asat Deluxe Savanna, Ibanez Artstar AS153

Propheteer

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #58 on: September 01, 2017, 07:08:44 PM »
Hi I've used a prophet 08 many times in the past, and always liked the sound but also found it wasn't quite there for me in certain key aspects. Still a very good synth and one of the best modern ones. I just never felt I liked it enough to buy one myself so continued just using a friend's one at his place now and then.

Fast forward to today, I own a REV2 and can say it really is so much more than the sum of its improvements over the Prophet '08. It doesn't negate the Prophet 08  at all , if you are happy with the '08 then you still will be/should be. Afterall new synths don't usurp vintage and often simple synths from the 80s? both are fine.

I do feel however that with REV2, dsi have hit it out of the park, It's absolutely stunning from top to  bottom. Design, U.I, Sound extras, Keys and everything to me is above and beyond the Prophet 08. If you are on the fence about 'upgrading' I would definitely go for it, if you won't lose much by selling your '08.

They have improved REV2 so much and added in so many nice and important sound creation abilities, it is like a different synth entirely (but in a good way that Prophet 08 users could still get used to fast). I give the REV2 10/10 on usage and sound quality. I would have given Prophet 08 a 7/10 on both. That's how much better it is to me. The sound moves me more, inspires me more. It opens up the synth, makes it more lively, more "analog", it's closer to what I'd call a real Prophet now, even with DCOs. It does not live in the shadow of the Prophet 6 (or even 5) any more in my eyes. In fact those synths now look rather lacking by comparison (and I don't just mean spec/features)

The REV2 to me is the most exciting new instrument in a long time, which in a large part is exactly due to the new stuff it contains that is missing on the '08, inc the polysequencer, the shape mod, the key feel, the sub osc and the effects engine. The effects are not just thrown in for good measure (like a Prophet 08 with some outboard) they have formed very tight, intrinsic parts of my sound design in ways no external effects every could. That they can be modulated by the ample onboard sources is brilliant and opens up the Rev2 to being able to make a massively wider world of sounds than you could ever do on a Prophet '08 (without some very convoluted and non inspiring hoop jumping involving lots of other gear).

Rev2 is just all there, ready to play, program and inspire. And to me it looks great, even nicer than Prophet 6 (thanks mainly to its correct proportions as a 5 octave keyboard!) but even the new red backlit buttons (the best buttons I've seen on any dsi synth looks wise) the sharp black OLED screen (big improvement over Prophet 08), the layout and even the Font used (yes I for one actually prefer this modern look to "Prophet" vs the old fashioned, if sometimes admired, original font style). I'm very glad they did go ahead and stick "Prophet" on it and changed the name. This synth probably deserves that title more than any other in their range (ok.. Yes the Prophet 6 too). I honestly was never in love with how the prophet 08 looked either, nor the very 90s looking button shape, the sticker panel, the wall wart... it was a great sound source but not something I could really love. Sound is more important of course but to me it also has to look the part and feel the part (solid build) and REV2 is night and day over the Prophet 08 there. The only thing I could have wished for is the Sequential badge in place of DSI but that would be seriously nit-picking. I understand why they leave that for the VCO stuff, that's fine.

It just looks like a modern prophet fit for the future, as a workhorse live and in the studio, I think it'll continue the legacy of its father (the 08) into the next decade and really does sound better. It can get far more organic and vintage sounding by using shape mod, new slop etc. It can sound warmer with sub. And it can do things that many other synths can do that the Prophet 08 couldn't (bandpass and highpass by modulating the hipass effect along with the lowpass where needed).

A creative workhorse that exceeds the original in every way as far as I can see. I honestly don't know any reason to choose the original over REV2 if you have the choice and money wasn't an issue.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 07:22:16 PM by Propheteer »

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2017, 06:47:58 AM »
I guess people have moved on, but I thought there would be more commentary and reflection on the new versus the old.  Perhaps the instrument with the greatest number of features will always win in the synthesizer world. 

As I wait for the Rev2 to fully mature and have all its issues ironed out, I am indeed enjoying the simplicity of the old fully-vetted Prophet '08, and feeling quite sorry for some of you.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.co