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Prophet '08 Vs. REV2

Razmo

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #100 on: August 18, 2019, 11:22:01 PM »
All good information.  I appreciate it, Razmo. 

I won't be dumping any programs from the Prophet '08 to the Rev2.  Not do I ever use factory programs.  When I get a Rev2, I'll consider it a fresh start and design all new programs from its panel.  And if I'm satisfied with the results, then out will go my P'08s.

in that case I hardly think you'll get disappointed... maybe that's what triggered me in the first place because a "stupid" comparison demo might potentially stray you away from a synth that you may actually come to like better than your current P08... I've had the P08 as well in the past... the only thing that i noticed when transfering old presets was that they sounded lower in volume than the REV2 presets... they actually sounded boring in comparison, most likely because they had no FX on them as well... but I do not remember them as sounding "wrong" or anything... but I also did not make any strict comparisons like in that video above... I think you're doing yourself a disservice by listening to it, to be honest... get your hands on a REV2, and try it out... if you then come back and tell me that you still feel it's worse than your 08, then I'll take my words back...
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Razmo

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #101 on: August 18, 2019, 11:29:06 PM »
And by the way.. .sorry if I may sound harsh from time to time... but I have a tendency to say things directly... at least I'm not hiding anything instead  ;) ... we all have the right to disaggree and have different opinions... for some, there can be no lesser than the 100% comparison in sound... for others, a small deviance is ok... it depends... if I was to judge a replica of the old Eminent 310U organ with a SmallStone phaser pedal, I'd probably also be nitpicking a lot more... i guess it depend on a lot of things how critical we are when we compare something.
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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #102 on: August 18, 2019, 11:30:52 PM »
No problem.  I actually prefer directness.
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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #103 on: August 19, 2019, 02:11:22 AM »
That's what I am asking - if the two have the same sonic character.

They absolutely do.

I won't be dumping any programs from the Prophet '08 to the Rev2.  Not do I ever use factory programs.  When I get a Rev2, I'll consider it a fresh start and design all new programs from its panel.  And if I'm satisfied with the results, then out will go my P'08s.

In that case you shouldn't worry the slightest.

Razmo already mentioned a couple of points about the comparison video that can be regarded as problematic, one of them being different velocity responses. Another problem is that the panning settings weren't transmitted correctly. I'm not sure right now whether that's a matter of different parameter value resolutions, but you often hear the Rev2 with a reduced stereo image or even in mono in this video, which automatically causes a flatter audio result. That, on top of slightly different Audio Mod and filter responses, is all the difference I can hear. The latter can easily be adjusted by ear.

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #104 on: November 22, 2019, 07:11:24 PM »
I apologize if I seem 'late' to this topic...
I can state that I have a P'08 and a REV2 (Rack - 16 voice) - and also Razmo's soundset for the REV2. Which is quite good, BTW.
I'm selling the rack REV2 16-voice soon (PM me if interested - only reasonable offers will be replied to).
I've found that:
- The P'08 has much more low end. And comes 'alive' with a good reverb, like the Boss RV-500 that I have
- I don't need the other FX much, they tend to diffuse the sound and 'muddy' it
- The additional routing options and wave shaping require much more attention to detail (effort), for questionable gains
- The LCD display is nice, however it becomes much more confusing to ferret out 'what controls what' without constant reference
- The 'sequence' options are REALLY hard to ferret out without the LED' s that the 'keyed' version has (mine is the module).

Summary: Part of this assessment is that I'm just 'old.' ;) I have a Kronos 2 also - and I love my DSI P'08! But I don't see much 'value-add' with the added expense of the 16-voice REV2 module, and all it's trimmings - that I can't do with similar or less effort on the Kronos 2 and P'08 'knob-ages.'

All of the aforementioned, is strictly my own experience and opinion - and nowhere near exhaustive, of the capabilities of the mentioned instruments. I go on record as a forever Dave Smith/Sequential fan!!!!

maxter

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #105 on: November 23, 2019, 03:50:17 AM »

- The 'sequence' options are REALLY hard to ferret out without the LED' s that the 'keyed' version has (mine is the module).


The key version doesn't have any LEDs for the sequencer either, unfortunately. I also miss the LEDs for the voices like the P08, but as there were 8 on the P08 which would have to be 16 on the Rev2, it's an understandable omission.

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #106 on: November 23, 2019, 03:17:47 PM »
I apologize if I seem 'late' to this topic...
I can state that I have a P'08 and a REV2 (Rack - 16 voice) - and also Razmo's soundset for the REV2. Which is quite good, BTW.
I'm selling the rack REV2 16-voice soon (PM me if interested - only reasonable offers will be replied to).
I've found that:
- The P'08 has much more low end. And comes 'alive' with a good reverb, like the Boss RV-500 that I have
- I don't need the other FX much, they tend to diffuse the sound and 'muddy' it
- The additional routing options and wave shaping require much more attention to detail (effort), for questionable gains
- The LCD display is nice, however it becomes much more confusing to ferret out 'what controls what' without constant reference
- The 'sequence' options are REALLY hard to ferret out without the LED' s that the 'keyed' version has (mine is the module).

Summary: Part of this assessment is that I'm just 'old.' ;) I have a Kronos 2 also - and I love my DSI P'08! But I don't see much 'value-add' with the added expense of the 16-voice REV2 module, and all it's trimmings - that I can't do with similar or less effort on the Kronos 2 and P'08 'knob-ages.'

All of the aforementioned, is strictly my own experience and opinion - and nowhere near exhaustive, of the capabilities of the mentioned instruments. I go on record as a forever Dave Smith/Sequential fan!!!!

It's inevitable that some will prefer one and some will prefer the other.  And that you have both makes your comments especially valuable.  There's no need to apologize for your opinions and conclusions merely because they're the less popular view.
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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #107 on: November 24, 2019, 10:27:33 PM »
If my P-08 breaks beyond repair, I will probably replace it with a Rev 2.  The additional features and voices would be enough to justify the upgrade.  If one puts the additional modulation/effects aside for a moment on the Rev 2, they sound about as similar as two analog synths can get.   However, the additional features and voices on the Rev 2 are not enough to convince me to sell my P-08 for the Rev 2.   Not sure what bells and whistles would entice me to do so, but currently a P-08 to Rev.2 is not a "must do" for me. 

Both of them are basic workhorse synths.  I think that one of them would necessarily be in the arsenal of any serious synth player.   Much more so than a P-06 or OB-6. 

I hope that DS appreciates the essential character of the P-08/Rev 2 and will not change the essence in future Revs. 
Jim Thorburn .  Toys-  Dave Smith: Prophet 08;
Pro 2; Prophet 12; EastWest Orchestral soft synths; Yamaha S-90; Yamaha Montage 8, Yamaha DX-7; KARP Odyssey; Ensoniq ESQ-1.  All run through a Cubase DAW with a Tascam DM-24 board.

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #108 on: January 10, 2020, 08:45:34 PM »
Hey I dropped off for a while but I'm back now. Sacred Synthesis, you had made a comment that the Prophet '08 sounded much better than the Rev 2 in the comparison. I listened to the video and found that the Rev 2 sounds were pretty much mono and did not have any pan spread, which made comparison kind of tricky. But did you hear any other differences? I find your patches are very subtle and beautiful in your compositions, you must have a discerning ear.

A reviewer named GeoSynth said that the Rev2 had better "low end" than the P'08. Here's the (long) review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjUZof95eAg

Sometimes I find the mid bass of the P'08 to be a little lackluster. A bit of punch here would make the synth more poppy and full. I suppose I could EQ it that way.

For Christmas I got a real set of headphones (Etymotic ER4SR) and I started to hear what the P'08 really sounds like. A few days ago I figured out how to create sounds that I love on my P'08. It's all about LFOs set to around 20. Modulate something say oscillator mix, pulse width, anything to get a very small timbre change. A little pan spread and I'm in bliss. Two oscillators can do a whole lot that way.

So naturally I thought about getting a Rev2 because GAS. Well specifically because of the ability to modulate the timbre of the oscillators. Then one oscillator could do what I need two for now. Add another 8 voices and I could do it in stereo. So yeah, I'm seriously thinking about a Rev2. The other thing is that I can't get a P'08 module for less than $1K. If I sold my P'08 and bought a Rev2 I would pay about the same price and get effects and a better keyboard... But better mid bass would push me over the edge. But is it real?

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #109 on: January 10, 2020, 10:15:49 PM »
Hey I dropped off for a while but I'm back now. Sacred Synthesis, you had made a comment that the Prophet '08 sounded much better than the Rev 2 in the comparison. I listened to the video and found that the Rev 2 sounds were pretty much mono and did not have any pan spread, which made comparison kind of tricky. But did you hear any other differences? I find your patches are very subtle and beautiful in your compositions, you must have a discerning ear.

A reviewer named GeoSynth said that the Rev2 had better "low end" than the P'08. Here's the (long) review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjUZof95eAg

Sometimes I find the mid bass of the P'08 to be a little lackluster. A bit of punch here would make the synth more poppy and full. I suppose I could EQ it that way.

For Christmas I got a real set of headphones (Etymotic ER4SR) and I started to hear what the P'08 really sounds like. A few days ago I figured out how to create sounds that I love on my P'08. It's all about LFOs set to around 20. Modulate something say oscillator mix, pulse width, anything to get a very small timbre change. A little pan spread and I'm in bliss. Two oscillators can do a whole lot that way.

So naturally I thought about getting a Rev2 because GAS. Well specifically because of the ability to modulate the timbre of the oscillators. Then one oscillator could do what I need two for now. Add another 8 voices and I could do it in stereo. So yeah, I'm seriously thinking about a Rev2. The other thing is that I can't get a P'08 module for less than $1K. If I sold my P'08 and bought a Rev2 I would pay about the same price and get effects and a better keyboard... But better mid bass would push me over the edge. But is it real?
I've not been able to do an A/B but I find the the differences subtle for the most part. But, of course, there's the sub osc that can deliver more bass if you need it. And if you need to you can layer another complementary patch with more bass. Add just a hint of drive from the fx section and you can get an even fuller patch. Well worth the upgrade IMO.

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #110 on: January 11, 2020, 10:06:09 AM »
Thanks @guyaguy! Sometimes a subtle difference makes all the difference, but that isn't so true in the mid bass, more usually in the highs.

When I read your post I realized that I'm not doing a couple of things to make the patch fuller in the bass, specifically making sure my LFOs are sync'd to the keypress. I may not be giving the P'08 a fair shake here.

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #111 on: January 11, 2020, 01:14:38 PM »
Thanks, Tumble2K.  A number of people made the same comment about the stereo spread in the P'08-Rev2 comparison video.  Yeah, that could be one of the problems, but the channel owner did say he copied the patches from one instrument to the other.  It says something about the dump feature. 

I've made a number of patches with my P'08s that use four LFOs of modulation.  These are often sounds that you would never guess required so much.  There's more to a decent string patch than one would expect.  But I never use wobble effects, as in a very slow vibrato.  To my ears, that sounds unmusical and unstable.   

Anyway, until one of my PEKs sells, I can't get a Rev2, and the long wait has made me wonder a hundred times whether or not I really need one.  Ideally, I'd like to have a P'08 and Rev2 at the same time to make careful comparisons.  My main concern is that the raw sonic character of the former will be lacking in the latter.  I'm especially dependent on a solo sawtooth patch, which I think the P'08 does exceptionally well.  As for EQ, I'm always having to trim back the P'08's bottom end on my mixer.

The Rev2 obviously has quite a few more features than its predecessor.  But honestly, I've never heard a Rev2 YT video that made me say, "Wow!  Now there's a fabulous sound that I can't make with my old P'08."  So, I'm not highly motivated to make the change.  Otherwise, I'd sell the old instrument to fund the new one. 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 01:17:22 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #112 on: January 11, 2020, 06:06:54 PM »

I've made a number of patches with my P'08s that use four LFOs of modulation.  These are often sounds that you would never guess required so much.  There's more to a decent string patch than one would expect.  But I never use wobble effects, as in a very slow vibrato.  To my ears, that sounds unmusical and unstable.   


Interesting what you say about the LFOs. I have not yet heard a good string patch on the P'08. They all sound synthetic to me. I think there's a type of modulation that that's missing but I don't know what it is. I've been using sub 1Hz LFOs to create movement, but a tiny tiny amount, just enough to make the timbre not static. I don't think it makes for a classical sounding instrument, but it's interesting and satisfying. I will experiment with vibrato speeds (I'd say 3 or 4 Hz). Oh and one other thing, I only modulate timbre changing parameters at sub 1Hz. think it's a bad idea to modulate the oscillator frequency at that rate (maybe you taught me that too). That creates a high school orchestra effect.

Oh and back to the topic at hand, I remember you once telling me I needed to get the P'08 module so that I could experience to the true potential of the instrument. I haven't forgotten, but I haven't done it either. The Rev2 is probably the cheapest way for me to get 16 voices that I can layer and separate left from right while still getting 8 voices. That must be incredible. If I get a P'08 module I will need to have a mixer. So a Rev2 is good for a small studio or an only synth.

I probably need to learn about making bass sounds correctly. Maybe the trick is to use the two oscillators at exactly the same frequency... I think the DCOs will be synchronized. I will play around with it tonight. I could layer and pan both sounds to opposite sides (DC modulation should work, right?) Or I need a mixer... sigh. Maybe I need to move this discussion back to the P'08 forum.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 06:11:51 PM by tumble2k »

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #113 on: January 11, 2020, 07:32:28 PM »

Oh and back to the topic at hand, I remember you once telling me I needed to get the P'08 module so that I could experience to the true potential of the instrument. I haven't forgotten, but I haven't done it either. The Rev2 is probably the cheapest way for me to get 16 voices that I can layer and separate left from right while still getting 8 voices. That must be incredible. If I get a P'08 module I will need to have a mixer. So a Rev2 is good for a small studio or an only synth.

Yes, that's true.  It was the first thing I liked when I first saw the specs of the Rev2.  It amounts to a different programming experience, though.  I like having the two instruments at hand.
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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #114 on: January 12, 2020, 10:49:17 AM »
I remember someone saying somewhere on this forum that the display was a bit small compared with the Prophet'08 display and harder to read. That is a concern for me. I use the position of the potentiometers to dial up the sound but then fine tune based on the value on the display. It would not work if I can't see the value. I don't really care about the parameter itself (heck I know which knob I'm turning, right?)

Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #115 on: January 12, 2020, 11:36:01 AM »
For anyone wanting wide binaural stereo sounds (like Poly Evolver with Output Pan set to LxxxxR), using the stack mode on the Rev2 with each layer hard panned left and right gives you a huge stereo field similar to Evolver, and other binaural architecture synths.   

I often create a patch on layer A, then copy it to layer B, stack and hard pan it L/R, then make minor adjustments to fine tuning of oscillators or other parameters to give it some subtle animation between the left and right channels.   The result is a huge stereo field of sound... works great for pads, string ensembles, horn ensembles, organs and many other instrument types.   

You just have to set Pan Mode to Fixed for the Program, and use one mod slot on each layer, with a DC source routed to pan destination.   -32 to hard pan a layer left, and +32 to hard pan a layer right.

Voice Component Modeling (VCM) Soundset - 128 Patches for the Prophet Rev2 - NOW AVAILABLE on Sellfy: https://sellfy.com/p/figZ/

maxter

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Re: Prophet '08 Vs. REV2
« Reply #116 on: January 12, 2020, 02:13:00 PM »
Minor addition to guyaguy's great tips, the HP Filter in the FX section can also be used to enhance the bass. With lower amounts of resonance applied it boosts whatever frequency the cutoff is at, while filtering those lower than that. Since the FX are mono though, it works best with mono bass patches and such, as you can also route pitch to the HP cutoff and resonance. I also find it useful to modulate the level of the sub-osc with pitch, to boost it only at whatever frequency range needed. The sub-osc is more pronounced in the chosen registers while it doesn't muddy up the overall sound as much in the others, as when non-modulated, ie making the sound more "balanced" or "nuanced" perhaps is the right word.