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Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?

Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« on: January 23, 2017, 11:02:34 AM »
Hey to everyone,

I've been shopping for my first 'big boy' synthesizer for a few weeks now and with the NAMM announcement of the Prophet Rev2, a lot of people have been championing this as the route I should go. The problem I have is that my region doesn't have any place with a Prophet 08 on display to get a feel for, which has left me sailing the seas of Youtube for investigating. Last night, I came across this demo of some patches for the DSI Evolver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCCm00KESUk

So uh, "holy crap" was my response. Now, I don't own any DSI products, and I'm still on the fence between the Rev2 and the other item I'm looking at. But, if the Rev2 can be made to produce these kinds of sounds, it's a landslide decision to run to the Rev2. The question is, "Can the Prophet 8 produce sounds like those obtained in this video with the Evolver?"

Thanks all.

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2017, 11:54:32 AM »
The Prophet '08 can produce most of the sounds in that Poly Evolver Keyboard video (as long as you add a delay to it), but not all.  That video aside, though, a Poly Evolver Keyboard can make many sounds a Prophet '08 cannot.  The REV2 can produce more sounds still, but even it cannot cover the Evolver's vast sonic range.  The big question is, what range of sounds do you want?

This is a good demonstration of the P'08's sonic palette:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=senhvxSN3PU
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2017, 01:50:48 PM »
My core requirement I took to others when I began my search was "I can touch everything to shape the sound; knob-per-function." To spare a story, I got exposed to what being allowed direct manipulation of the sound could do, and decided I need one "platform" synth to do everything on.

The youtube you linked to is very good, and yet I lack the musical language to describe what is 'missing' from the Evolver's demo. Maybe it is just the abilities of the persons who made the patches? And perhaps this is the knowledge hole I have, and why I came asking. The Evolver seems to do 'everything' in the Trance style I love. The Prophet 8 seems to come very close too. The goal is having an instrument that I can grow into over time, that is more capable than I ever will be, and not hitting a ceiling I didn't know about just because of my lacking the necessary skill to hit the wall.

My standard of test right now is hearing how well an instrument makes a SuperSaw, mostly because I know how to generate them and they sound tonally pleasing to me. Realizing this I did another youtube hunt - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmKYFSQ7y6c - So even here I lack the language to really express it, but I love the Roland SuperSaw, and somehow the Prophet 12s supersaw just has a bit more character.

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2017, 02:13:32 PM »
A supersaw is just a densely detuned sawtooth.  Even if you don't have the supersaw wave form in an oscillator, you can still emulate one.

One thing you haven't mentioned is voice count.  The Poly Evolver has only four voices that can be played at once, the Prophet '08 has eight, and the REV2 has sixteen.  The latter two instruments can do polyphonic layering, which the Poly Evolver cannot.

I'm somewhat generalizing, but any sound a Prophet '08 can make can be made on a Poly Evolver as well.  The two instruments have a similar character, although the Prophet '08 does have a slightly warmer analog tone.  But the reverse isn't true; that is, a Poly Evolver can do many things that a Prophet '08/REV2 cannot.  However, it does have the disadvantage of a substantial amount of digital aliasing (noise) in the digital oscillators.   
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 02:15:07 PM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
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The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2017, 04:03:20 PM »
I do follow the design of a supersaw, but use it as a benchmark just because I've played with some synths that don't do it at all well. :|

On the voice count, I suppose it was an omission just because the minimum of the Rev2 is 8 voices. I honestly have no idea what one could do with more than 10 (I only have 10 digits :) ). The other synth I'm looking at tops out at 8 voices too, so there they're all equal. I may just have to come back around when I've built up a better musical language capacity, just because I cannot explain the differentiation I hear between the two videos.

Thanks none the less for the assistance, it is appreciated.

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2017, 04:57:33 PM »
You're welcome.  Just ask in the future.  There is a remarkable wealth of knowledge and experience among the members of this forum.
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2017, 09:09:58 PM »
Sacred Synthesis probably knows more than anyone on this site about the Poly Evolver vs P-08.  He was rather modest but search his name on YouTube and listen to his stuff.

The first iteration of the P-08 is a fantastic synth. You can't go wrong by getting one of them. I'm sure the Rev2 will be great too. However it will take you a long time to outgrow the P-08. 

If you like the supersaw sound of the P-12, consider that one.  Very different from the p-08 and much more complex.  I have both and love them - but for different reasons.
Jim Thorburn .  Toys-  Dave Smith: Prophet 08;
Pro 2; Prophet 12; EastWest Orchestral soft synths; Yamaha S-90; Yamaha Montage 8, Yamaha DX-7; KARP Odyssey; Ensoniq ESQ-1.  All run through a Cubase DAW with a Tascam DM-24 board.

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2017, 11:30:12 AM »
Hey to everyone,

I've been shopping for my first 'big boy' synthesizer for a few weeks now and with the NAMM announcement of the Prophet Rev2, a lot of people have been championing this as the route I should go. The problem I have is that my region doesn't have any place with a Prophet 08 on display to get a feel for, which has left me sailing the seas of Youtube for investigating. Last night, I came across this demo of some patches for the DSI Evolver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCCm00KESUk

So uh, "holy crap" was my response. Now, I don't own any DSI products, and I'm still on the fence between the Rev2 and the other item I'm looking at. But, if the Rev2 can be made to produce these kinds of sounds, it's a landslide decision to run to the Rev2. The question is, "Can the Prophet 8 produce sounds like those obtained in this video with the Evolver?"

Thanks all.

I'd suggest that if you like this particular video of PEK you must like sequencer stuff- so remember P12 lacks one.   Otherwise the digital element there would likely get you closest to PEK sound. 
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2017, 11:46:19 AM »
I'd suggest that if you like this particular video of PEK you must like sequencer stuff- so remember P12 lacks one.   Otherwise the digital element there would likely get you closest to PEK sound.

Hmmm.  Is that true?  Are the digital side of the Poly Evolver and the Prophet 12 really similar?  Discussions of the analog portions aside, are even the digital oscillators of the two instruments that similar?
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2017, 10:26:17 AM »
 Sacred synthesis,  In that 1st PEK video Formulaxfd listed he was mentioning a particular sound he liked.  I'll call it "techno sequences" for lack of a better word. All I'm saying is that if P12 actually did have a sequencer don't you think that would get  you closer to the PEK sound than PO8 (or REV2) that he is inquiring about?   
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2017, 10:40:29 AM »
If we're just talking about the sound, minus the repeating, then I'd say either instrument would do.  If that patch is one of the factory programs, it's long gone on my PEK, because I've edited over all mine.  But it sounds like a super-sawtooth imitation with the filter being opened by the modulation wheel.  The repeating could be achieved by either a sequencer or an arpeggiator.  And I didn't mean to challenge you, Soundquest.  I was sincerely asking a question.  The PEK and P12 have never been methodically compared side-by-side, that I'm aware of.  And yet, it always seemed to me to be the most obvious comparison to make.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 11:41:26 AM by Sacred Synthesis »
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2017, 09:27:32 PM »
I looked at the specs of the PEK and it has DCO's and digital wavetable oscs.  The P-12 uses a Digital Signal Processor (DSP) for its oscs.  So, from that perspective, the PEK it is closer to a cross between a P-08 and a VS, than a P-12.

Understanding the math of how a DSP operates is above my pay grade.  It appears that it is totally created by a processor with 1's and 0's.  So, it makes sense that the P-12 will sound substantially different from the PEK/P-08.  It also explains why the P-12 oscs form perfect waveforms on the oscilloscope.

It would be interesting to do a comparison between a PEK and a P-12.
Jim Thorburn .  Toys-  Dave Smith: Prophet 08;
Pro 2; Prophet 12; EastWest Orchestral soft synths; Yamaha S-90; Yamaha Montage 8, Yamaha DX-7; KARP Odyssey; Ensoniq ESQ-1.  All run through a Cubase DAW with a Tascam DM-24 board.

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2017, 09:15:03 AM »
Interesting points everyone.   I expect some day my PEK will perish and I'm already nostalgic about it's sound and anxious on how best to replace it using DSI's new (or available) instruments.    I love the new Rev 2 layout and would hope I could make this my new flagship.   
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2017, 01:35:50 PM »
I expect some day my PEK will perish and I'm already nostalgic about it's sound and anxious on how best to replace it using DSI's new (or available) instruments.

Aw, cut it out, Soundquest.  You brought a tear to my eye.  "Perish"?  Sheesh!

Don't worry, I think there's a future for us PEK-ers in the REV2.  But you're right.  It just won't be the same.... :'(
The Musical Synthesizer YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChLGwGiRVs7rlZXnOG9_mUw

The Musical Synthesizer Blog: https://themusicalsynthesizer.wordpress.com

Jonas

Re: Capability feedback from DSI Prophet8 owners vs. Evolver?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2017, 07:29:33 AM »
Last night, I came across this demo of some patches for the DSI Evolver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCCm00KESUk

So uh, "holy crap" was my response. Now, I don't own any DSI products, and I'm still on the fence between the Rev2 and the other item I'm looking at. But, if the Rev2 can be made to produce these kinds of sounds, it's a landslide decision to run to the Rev2. The question is, "Can the Prophet 8 produce sounds like those obtained in this video with the Evolver?"

Thanks all.

Most of this soundset appears to be based on an arpeggiator (and sequencer as noted earlier), with a lot of delay.  If you are interested in making those type of sounds, keep in mind that the Poly Evolver doesn't have an onboard arpeggiator and the Prophet '08 does, but with no effects.  Both the PEK and Prophet '08 have a great sequencer, but each of the 16 steps have to be programmed by dialing in the values.  You can program a sequence from the keyboard as well, but it's still not as simple to program as the sequencers you see on the later DSI synths, which is more of a "Press record & play" implementation.  I see the REV2 has onboard effects, a full featured arpeggiator, and it appears that the sequencer is also the "record & play" style.  So yeah, the REV2 may be easier to work with in shaping the kinds of sounds as featured in the video you shared.  Either way, we're all anxious to hear and learn more about it as we wait for the manual to be released and for a video review of a non-beta unit.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 07:35:32 AM by Jonas »
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