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about local control and ways to connect to DAWs

about local control and ways to connect to DAWs
« on: January 22, 2017, 01:34:54 AM »
Excuse my probably naive question,have not been able to find solid info on the matter elsewhere - a prophet 8 pe is my first analogue synth and can't tell what's the point of local control? The manual is not clear on this except mentioning it's helpful when connected to the sequencer. Do I need to switch it off when using with a sequencer or not?

Further, I wan't to record my actions on the pots within my DAW (cubase and ableton) PER layer. Is this possible on a single recording? For example, I want to do the following; while playing I switch between the two layers and change various settings like adsr, filter etc. I do this separately per layer and / or affecting both layers at once sometimes by enabling the layer button (blinking).

Whats the best way to setup / connect my prophet with Cubase in order to achieve that? Right now I've setup prophet as an external instrument and midi device (with 2 channels - one per layer I presume).

Global settings are on default values as per manual.

Thanks all in advance.

Best,
Nick

Yavn

Re: about local control and ways to connect to DAWs
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2017, 09:17:48 AM »
Excuse my probably naive question,have not been able to find solid info on the matter elsewhere - a prophet 8 pe is my first analogue synth and can't tell what's the point of local control? The manual is not clear on this except mentioning it's helpful when connected to the sequencer. Do I need to switch it off when using with a sequencer or not?

Further, I wan't to record my actions on the pots within my DAW (cubase and ableton) PER layer. Is this possible on a single recording? For example, I want to do the following; while playing I switch between the two layers and change various settings like adsr, filter etc. I do this separately per layer and / or affecting both layers at once sometimes by enabling the layer button (blinking).

Whats the best way to setup / connect my prophet with Cubase in order to achieve that? Right now I've setup prophet as an external instrument and midi device (with 2 channels - one per layer I presume).

Global settings are on default values as per manual.

Thanks all in advance.

Best,
Nick

A I'll take a pass on local.  It's one of the reasosns I picked up the keyboard vs. module.

When local is on, playng the keyboard will play the internal sounds as well as react to midi input, so in some ways the synth acts like an external module.  There is a bit more to it, but generally speaking, it's a way to seperate the sound engine from the keyboard. 

I use the Prophet as my master controller and swich local off when I want to controll another source while the synth is being sequenced from my DAW.  The end result is that I'm able to sequence the Prophet while using the keyboard to play another sound source. 

Hope that helps!

Re: about local control and ways to connect to DAWs
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2017, 03:17:38 PM »
Hi

have you managed to crack this?

I've got a similar problem here, except running logic.

I'm currently playing and recording successfully from the prophet with local On
Sending midi clock from Logic which it's receiving via Midi In

But it seems to be all over the place.

Logic receives parameter change data when I move the pots, but this also wrecks the clock and slows any arpeggiator / gated sequence down and sends it out of time?

In fact, touching anything on the prophet sends the clock out of time!!

Seems a bit flakey at the moment. Not sure if this is a quirk or a bug?

Re: about local control and ways to connect to DAWs
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2017, 02:40:57 AM »
Moinmoin,

as I tried to help Mark regarding his "Logic-problems" in another thread, I will keep this to "MIDI feedback":

Imagine a sequencer (Logic, Ableton, or a decent hardware) connected to the Synthesizer like this:
  • sequencer MIDI out -> synth MIDI in
  • synth MIDI out -> sequencer MIDI in

You will want this, if You want the sequencer to record everything You play on the synth and the synth to play everything the sequencer tells it to.
You will however not want to get an eternal loop like this:
  • strike a key on the synth -> synth plays it and sends it to the sequencer (synth MIDI out -> sequencer MIDI in)
  • sequenecer sends this same note as MIDI command to the synth (sequencer MIDI out -> synth MIDI in)
  • synth plays the note from the sequencer and sends it to the sequencer (synth MIDI out -> sequencer MIDI in)
  • ... You get it ...
  • ... go on forever ...
If You change a parameter, the only difference is the MIDI command: It is no longer "note on" but "CC##" or "NRPN##", the eternal loop will be the same. So You have to break this loop somhow...
This may be done at  the synth' as well as the sequencer's side.

On the synth this may be done by breaking the connection between keyboard / control knobs and modules (sound and modulation facilities)
"local on" enables this connection
"local off" breaks this connection
If you break this connection You may concider Your synth as divided into independent "master keyboard" and "sound module"

The example above is changed to:
  • strike a key on the synth -> synth does not play it, as the connection between keys and controls is broken, but sends it to the sequencer (synth MIDI out -> sequencer MIDI in)
  • sequenecer sends this same note as MIDI command to the synth (sequencer MIDI out -> synth MIDI in)
  • synth plays the note from the sequencer and does not send it to the sequencer as keypress is decoupled from sound source (synth MIDI out -> sequencer MIDI in stays quiet)
Keep in mind however, that the synth will stay perfectly quiet, if You disconnect one of the MIDI cables: The only connection between the synth's controls and keys to sound and modulation sources is routed via the sequencer!


On the sequencer this may be done by stopping it to "echo" the commands received via its MIDI in to its MIDI out (my old KAWAII Q80 names this parameter "MIDI echo")
"MIDI echo on" forwards everything from MIDI in to MIDI out
"MIDI echo off" does not forward anything from MIDI in to MIDI out

The example above is changed to:
  • strike a key on the synth -> synth plays it and sends it to the sequencer (synth MIDI out -> sequencer MIDI in)
  • sequenecer records the command but does not send it back to the synth (sequencer MIDI out disabled for everything from sequencer MIDI in)

With both methods, the sequencer will send everything it "creates itself" to the synth and the synth will send any keypress and any parameter change to the sequencer (if You did not disable commands e.g. in the prophet's global menu [CC and/or NRPN off]).

While both ways break the loop, this happens in different ways at different places. The method to use depends on the entire MIDI setup. As long as You only use one sequencer and one synth, both methods will work the same way. I suggest to set the sequencer to "MIDI ocho off", however in order not to be surprised by a quiet synth if You use it solely 8)
If You start to use a more complex MIDI installation, You will have to learn a little bit of "MIDI system architecture" anyway...

HTH

Martin
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 02:44:55 AM by MartinM »