REV2 (16-Voice Polyphonic Analog Synthesizer)

[jdt9517]

I'm so glad he's chosen to keep this masterpiece around.  Wooohooo!

I am too.  While I am becoming more and more enchanted with the P-12, that and the P-08/Rev2 are not interchangeable.

[jdt9517]

. . . what is the core sound like, from someone intimate with it and not rushing through a video demo?

Not sure what you mean by "the core sound".  My experience is the P-08 is like a P-5 on steroids.  It is amazing instrument.  Back in the day I used to live in the studios recording with the P-5.  I prefer the P-08.

As far as basic osc sound, take a look at the "Prophet 12 among Prophets" chain where I have been doing comparisons between the P-08 and the P-12.  Only have gotten to the point of two osc detuning PWM, but you can get the drift.

Also, this is a recording of mine where the P-08 is doing the bass and the lead.  The distorted chord pad is a DX-7.  Those sounds are getting to the old fashioned "core" analog sounds of the '80's.

https://soundcloud.com/jdt9517/synth-play

Sorry to hear about your problems with the P-06.  I have owned five DSI instruments in my life - a P-5 way back when, a P-08, P-12 and Pro 2.  All of them have been high quality instruments and totally bullet proof.  Never a problem.  I owned a Pro 1 back in the day too.  That one was not quite the quality of his other works.  It served a purpose though.  However, in the modern era I don't think there is a bad one in the lot for overall quality.

If you are thinking a P08 or a Rev 2, I don't think you will look back pining away for the P-6

[musicmaker]

REV2 module make sense for those getting a REV2/8 voice, but now that Dave said the 8 voice can be upgraded to a 16 voice, maybe not ? Still hope for a module, specially if it can be used in combination with the 08.
Also hope the REV2 (8 voice) module will fit a 19" rack.

Comparing the REV2/P8, there are some differences in the layout :

+ Hold knob
-  AMP VCA level knob
+ TAP Tempo
+ LFO CLK/Sync button
-  OSC GLIDE KNOB (Move outside the OSC section to one GLIDE knob)
+ OSC SLOP knob
+ Digital Effects section per layer A/B
+ Extended Sequencer control section
+ ARP section
+ OLED display
+ USB (MIDI only)

Other differences: (from NAMM 2017 video's)

+ Expanded Modulation matrix. (Doubled), added mod/sources and destinations.
+ Wave Shape modulation per waveform
+ PWM on all wave-shapes (incl saw & triangle)
+ Polyphonic 64 STEP sequencer separate per program per layer , up to 12 voices
    (The GATED 08 style sequencer also included and can also change the effects)
    Both can run at the same time.
+ 16 voice model can stack 8 voices (instead of 4)
+ Oiled African mahogany wood end panels ("African" was added in the spec on the website)
+ Internal Power supply
+ 8 Voice can be upgraded to a 16 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIVO5-3e7GQ 6:25)

Same:
- Same DCO's
- Same Curtis filters
- Still build in SF

Was developed in 6-8 months. Based on technology used in P6/OB6

Wonder if patches from REV2 can be loaded in the 08. From P8 to REV2 should mean the SYSEX DEV IDs are the same,
but with the new features guess there will more values per CC/NRPN and some added CC/NRPNs for the REV2.

[Sacred Synthesis]

DSI has done such a superb job on the REV2 that I have to believe it will somewhat cut into Prophet 12 sales.  I realize the two are very different instruments, but still, this P'08 upgrade is a substantial step into complexity.  I think it will be the supreme analog pad machine.

Now how would I describe the general character of the Prophet '08?  What is its core sound?  All I can do here is ramble.  It's been called brassy and bristly, and that it is when you open its filter with or without resonance; but it can also be dark, warm, and mysterious using the 2-pole filter.  It doesn't have the density of a Moog, or the creamy sweep of an Oberheim.   I would call it just slightly thin sounding, but not in a negative way; just enough to keep it from sounding overly murky when layering patches.  I know others disagree, but I find it sits somewhere between a Prophet 600 and an ARP Odyssey.  It seems to have a mild character that suits it for many things, without having any boisterous traits.  Its strengths are in the domain of strings, brass, PWM pads, and other similar traditional old school sounds.  It strikes me as an excellent all-round workhorse without having any pronounced sonic traits.  But its tone is still identifiable, still somehow unique. 

[Sacred Synthesis]

REV2 module make sense for those getting a REV2/8 voice, but now that Dave said the 8 voice can be upgraded to a 16 voice, maybe not ?

Yes, I heard him quickly say that too - that the REV2 8-voice can be field upgraded to a 16-voice.  Is this sort of upgrade a matter of an online update, or does it require that a board be installed?

[TacticalHamster]

. . . what is the core sound like, from someone intimate with it and not rushing through a video demo?

Not sure what you mean by "the core sound".  My experience is the P-08 is like a P-5 on steroids.  It is amazing instrument.  Back in the day I used to live in the studios recording with the P-5.  I prefer the P-08.

As far as basic osc sound, take a look at the "Prophet 12 among Prophets" chain where I have been doing comparisons between the P-08 and the P-12.  Only have gotten to the point of two osc detuning PWM, but you can get the drift.

Also, this is a recording of mine where the P-08 is doing the bass and the lead.  The distorted chord pad is a DX-7.  Those sounds are getting to the old fashioned "core" analog sounds of the '80's.

https://soundcloud.com/jdt9517/synth-play

Sorry to hear about your problems with the P-06.  I have owned five DSI instruments in my life - a P-5 way back when, a P-08, P-12 and Pro 2.  All of them have been high quality instruments and totally bullet proof.  Never a problem.  I owned a Pro 1 back in the day too.  That one was not quite the quality of his other works.  It served a purpose though.  However, in the modern era I don't think there is a bad one in the lot for overall quality.

If you are thinking a P08 or a Rev 2, I don't think you will look back pining away for the P-6

I think you raise a good point regarding my term "core sound". I'm so used to sticking with synths that have a primary character. You can deviate a bit, but not by much.

I loved/hates the P5 and Obxa. The p5 sounded lush like the Ob, but the P5 was a bit limited. The Ob weighed as much as a guitar amp. DSI has done amazing work compacting _and_ adding-to these workhorses.

Can you point out the "Prophet 12 among Prophet" chain you mention? Is it a thread here, or something else?

Thanks for the vintage-y sample. I'm building an idea of what it can do.

As far as my bad luck with P6s, I'm going to guess it's just bad run or something. The Ob is chugging like the expensive gorilla it is still, no issue.

To have that prophet sound, with splits or multi-timbral, just is amazing. I'm trying to feel out if I'm going to miss anything from the P6. I get the concept of warmth (being a long-time analog guy), but once stuff starts getting mixed together...it's hard to really tell.

My thoughts are for those soundtracks (like a sci-fi video game) where it's just a drone or alternating bass notes. From demos it sounds like the P08 resets the envelopes or something where the P6 doesn't. Is that something configurable?

[Sacred Synthesis]

The "Prophet 12 Among Prophets" thread:

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,948.0.html

[musicmaker]

Upgrade to 16 would assume it would be adding hardware modules. What about a 16 voice module with MPE functionality ? The P12  (have a module) firmware will not be more developed so that one is probably out. 16 voices would be a perfect match for MPE, but personally would be happy with an 8 voice REV2 module and price wise it should be very attractive. (upgradeable to 16 :-)) P.S should this thread not be moved to a new Prophet REV2 folder ?

[TacticalHamster]

The "Prophet 12 Among Prophets" thread:

http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,948.0.html

Thanks Sacred Synthesis. You guys are a lot more helpful than most of the folks at gearslutz. Man, that place...

If I attached a vid to a song (used in some soundtracks), would you be able to ear-approximate if the P '08 touches close to the droning bass and arp'd sequence?
https://youtu.be/dOsLzKVJO30

They're a cool group that have quite a few vintage synths, but they usually stick with the Prophet 5 (and OBs) for their stuff. They also did the theme for "Stranger Things". It's the hazy bass sounds and basic analog arp sequences that are similar to my needs for a current project.

Thanks!

[Razmo]

There can be no doubt... this machine was concieved to take on the Behringer Deep Mind I guess... though it will not directly because of the pricepoint really... but people who wanted the DM12 and has the cash would now certainly think about which one to get I guess... I am ... this is basicaly what I want.... more than 8 voices for huge pad sounds for my Ambeint style of music, but with build in FX... and if the keybed is the same Fatar one as in the new OB-6/P6, it could very well go as my future motherkeyboard, replacing my Blofeld keys... 5 octaves over the DM12's 4 is also a plus.

I'm a bit disappointed though, that the filters are the same old P08 ones... but allright... it IS a 2nd revision, and is backward compatible which is also great...

A fine product DSI... though it does not make my heart race out of GAS control ... yet...

[Razmo]

A QUESTION FOR DSI:

What keybed does the REV2 have? ... is it the same brand (FATAR) as on the Prophet 6 ?

[TacticalHamster]

There can be no doubt... this machine was concieved to take on the Behringer Deep Mind I guess... though it will not directly because of the pricepoint really... but people who wanted the DM12 and has the cash would now certainly think about which one to get I guess... I am ... this is basicaly what I want.... more than 8 voices for huge pad sounds for my Ambeint style of music, but with build in FX... and if the keybed is the same Fatar one as in the new OB-6/P6, it could very well go as my future motherkeyboard, replacing my Blofeld keys... 5 octaves over the DM12's 4 is also a plus.

I'm a bit disappointed though, that the filters are the same old P08 ones... but allright... it IS a 2nd revision, and is backward compatible which is also great...

A fine product DSI... though it does not make my heart race out of GAS control ... yet...

I hear you on the GAS. I'm on a synth kick, lusting over NAMM demos. Man, synth fever is NOT something I wish on anyone's pocketbook. These aren't $100-200 boutique guitar pedals, lol.

I doubt anyone would confirm, but I'm in agreement on the DeepMind competition. Behringer teased it for so long as a $1-1.5k analog poly that I'm sure DSI had more than enough time to dig in. At the very least, i bet it brought them to offer the half-voiced version to meet that price range.

I've followed the DeepMind...just to see if a (subjectively) mediocre company could re-brand themselves. I'm confident it'll do well and Behringer will continue the synth path. It sounds very Roland to me though, not yet sold on that.

I am thinking of the Rev2 and dropping my NI Komplete Kontrol S61 for it, as master controller.

[TacticalHamster]

A QUESTION FOR DSI:

What keybed does the REV2 have? ... is it the same brand (FATAR) as on the Prophet 6 ?

The keys look slightly thinner and sharper-edged than my P6 and OB6. I think FATAR is only in the VCOs.

DSI: I'm curious too

[vassalvio]

To be honest I don't think that removing the "PROPHET" name has been a good idea in terms of marketing...I think it's much more sexiest then "REV 2"...! When we talk about Prophet 08 we're talking about one of the best synths over the last years, with a lot of very famous artists using and loving it... But of course it's only my "marketing" opinion... I think also that "Analog Limitations" are a kind of trademark of analogue world... They make musicians in the condition (and they love it..) to buy other analog stuffs like chorus delays other synths etc. Don't forget that there's a lot of monophonic synthesizers all around, and many people are very happy with them...They feel like sailing in analogue world with all that rough things. The prophet 08 was in the border line, a little bit too complex then te Prophet 6.... But still a beautiful Prophet! Of course again, its really just my opinion, and the REV2 will be a beautiful synth with great sound like all the other DSI stuffs!

[TacticalHamster]

To be honest I don't think that removing the "PROPHET" name has been a good idea in terms of marketing...I think it's much more sexiest then "REV 2"...! When we talk about Prophet 08 we're talking about one of the best synths over the last years, with a lot of very famous artists using and loving it... But of course it's only my "marketing" opinion... I think that "Analog Limitations" are a kind of trademark of analogue world... It makes musicians in the condition (and they love it..) to buy other analog stuffs like chorus delays other synths etc. Don't forget that there's a lot of monophonic synthesizers all around, and many people are very happy with them...They feel like sailing in analogue world with all that rough things...

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't even see that! Kind of depreciates the value (in my eyes and I'm sure with others).

If anyone from DSI is reading this: you guys seriously need to include either a Prophet name near the Rev2 or a badge like the P6 has. Part (deserved) snob factor, but also brand appreciation!

I've had lots of "ooh a prophet, I used to have a 5" or "oberheim!" due to pinstripes. No one is going to say "ooh a Rev2". It looks (both player and audience view) like some name an Access Virus or other digisynth would show.

Plus... a "what" Rev2? There's no context.

  boo

[vinnyburns1@mac.com]

Congratilations DSI. Really great update to the P08 and the fact it can load P8 sounds is just brilliant. !6 voices for 1999. Great stuff.
Plus....... 61 keys ........  Yes, I know the p08 has 61. Just great to see it move away from the 6 voice, 4 octave template.
Will be ordering one of these. I love my P08 but this has the things that sort out any little shortcomings. FX, proper mains socket etc plus, 16 voices.
Really cool synth. Cheers.

[Razmo]

I really don't see the need for the name "Prophet" to be on it.... actually I'm a little tired of that name poping up in anything Dave does.... and yes... it may make people remember "the old prophet's", but what about the future? ... is the future supposed to only remember Prophets!? ... what about in 30 years and people will remember the REV2 instead? ... to me, that familiarity-thing is not really relevant, and I'm perfectly sure everyone knows who made it, and that it sounds the same no matter what name is on it

[musicmaker]

Just lurked around the P08 patch data. There are 32 bytes free for additional patch parameters. The doubled mod matrix need 12 bytes, and then there is space needed for the effects and STEP sequencer data. Guess that won't fit. So probably the REV2 will read P08 patches (and default disables mod 5-8 and the effects) but REV2 patches will probably be larger and cannot be dumped into a P08 . If so will they be 14 bit instead of 7 . Gosh, this byte crunching is more challenging than fitting data in the CMOS of an x86 or the 64K of a C64. Although lots of fun.. :-)

[TacticalHamster]

I really don't see the need for the name "Prophet" to be on it.... actually I'm a little tired of that name poping up in anything Dave does.... and yes... it may make people remember "the old prophet's", but what about the future? ... is the future supposed to only remember Prophets!? ... what about in 30 years and people will remember the REV2 instead? ... to me, that familiarity-thing is not really relevant, and I'm perfectly sure everyone knows who made it, and that it sounds the same no matter what name is on it

I get what you're saying, but the difference is that Prophet is branding that calls out to a family. Rev2 is a revision like MkII. It means nothing.

If I said "man, those rev3.3s were great" your immediate thought isn't Prophet 5, revision 3.3. So no, I don't agree.

And the Rev2 is a prophet. It's a prophet 08 with extras galore.

To each their own though.

[TwelfthRootof2]

Fellas, let's take a deep breath and remember that a REV2 is a super Prophet '08.  If you like the P'08, then you'll love the REV2, but if you'd love the REV2, then you also like your P'08.  I don't mean to sound cryptic, but don't torture yourselves over this new instrument.  It should be available in about two months.  Several months will pass, and then there will be a first software update.  If you're good at installing updates yourselves, then go ahead and buy a low serial number REV2.  If you're not, then just wait a few months until you can buy one with the first update already installed.  Either way, don't suddenly regret having or just buying a Prophet '08 or Tetra if it's the right instrument for you.  The REV2 will have that same exact sound, but with many more features.  Maybe you don't need those features?  Regardless, the appearance of the new instrument doesn't make the old one any worse.  I'll possibly hold on to one of my P'08's for some time, and I'll  enjoy making music with it tomorrow every bit as much as I did the other day before I learned about the REV2.

Absolutely true, SS. And as a "newbie" to this synth, there is lots to learn! And I agree with LoboLives also - that it's almost TOO much. However, in the case of the CS80 - there are 2 "synth lines" - each with 2 OSC (pulse/square), a sine, and sub OSC - and HP/LP, ringmod, pitch bend attack, ribbon controller, chorus/tremolo, etc. It'd get "fat" in a hurry! 16 OSC's is too much - for most things. Without careful programming, the sound gets muddy and diffused quickly.
Thanks for the "reality check," Sacred! You're absolutely spot on! I really liking my new P08, so far!