OB-6 Unstable USB MIDI under Logic Pro X

autoy · « **on:** January 19, 2017, 06:04:05 AM »

Hi, I've been playing my OB-6 stand-alone since I got it and now I've hooked it up to logic with the MIDI local off, as mandatory. I'm noticing a whole lot of hanging and freezing on the OB-6 upon receiving MIDI from the sequencer. Sometimes it's caused by hanging notes, some others because of NRPN streams. Sometimes it even freezes the whole unit and I have to restart the OB-6. I have tried with either NRPN and CC and it's the same. I've set the internal clock output to off to make sure it's not the culprit. Any other similar experiences? So far many other Prophet-6 owners have reported the same problem with their units.

TacticalHamster · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2017, 01:55:49 AM »

Quote from: autoy on January 19, 2017, 06:04:05 AM

Hi, I've been playing my OB-6 stand-alone since I got it and now I've hooked it up to logic with the MIDI local off, as mandatory. I'm noticing a whole lot of hanging and freezing on the OB-6 upon receiving MIDI from the sequencer. Sometimes it's caused by hanging notes, some others because of NRPN streams. Sometimes it even freezes the whole unit and I have to restart the OB-6. I have tried with either NRPN and CC and it's the same. I've set the internal clock output to off to make sure it's not the culprit. Any other similar experiences? So far many other Prophet-6 owners have reported the same problem with their units.

I had similar issues with the P6 (haven't run midi to OB6 yet). I'm also a Logic user.

I remember my issues were with the sequencer starting and stopping a lot from me bouncing between bars and hitting play. other stuff went downhill quick after that.

Have you tried to disable the send start/stop in the external midi plugin on the track? That cleared it up for me, along with setting channel to something like 3.

autoy · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2017, 03:50:40 PM »

Been making more tests. Oh man, this is terrible. Even the simplest MIDI configurations hang the OB-6 under Logic. I've tried disabling all reset messages in Logic Preferences, Midi clock source on the OB-6, MIDI Clock source on Logic., several channel combinations, start/stop messages on the track... Just about every combination. I end up always hanging the OB-6 MIDI input (I know this because when hanged I turn back the Local to ON and the synth engine still responds. And I do know MIDI comes in the sequencer and leaves it, as per my MIDI Monitor app).

The only workaround is to leave the Local ON while playing the OB-6 with a sequencer because at least you won't notice the MIDI IN port is borked. That is, until you want to play back your recorded MIDI to the OB-6, then you will have to reboot it to hear something. That is, till it hangs again. This is bad, really bad. Hope for a bug fix soon but I see Prophet-6 users have been suffering this for longer than we have

Bottom line: Logic Pro users + OB-6 is a NO GO for the time being.

TacticalHamster · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2017, 08:05:31 PM »

Quote from: autoy on January 20, 2017, 03:50:40 PM

Been making more tests. Oh man, this is terrible. Even the simplest MIDI configurations hang the OB-6 under Logic. I've tried disabling all reset messages in Logic Preferences, Midi clock source on the OB-6, MIDI Clock source on Logic., several channel combinations, start/stop messages on the track... Just about every combination. I end up always hanging the OB-6 MIDI input (I know this because when hanged I turn back the Local to ON and the synth engine still responds. And I do know MIDI comes in the sequencer and leaves it, as per my MIDI Monitor app).

The only workaround is to leave the Local ON while playing the OB-6 with a sequencer because at least you won't notice the MIDI IN port is borked. That is, until you want to play back your recorded MIDI to the OB-6, then you will have to reboot it to hear something. That is, till it hangs again. This is bad, really bad. Hope for a bug fix soon but I see Prophet-6 users have been suffering this for longer than we have

Bottom line: Logic Pro users + OB-6 is a NO GO for the time being.

What's the minimal that you need to do to cause this? I'm going to fire up logic tonight and test too.

autoy · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2017, 04:00:43 PM »

Quote from: TacticalHamster on January 20, 2017, 08:05:31 PM

What's the minimal that you need to do to cause this? I'm going to fire up logic tonight and test too.

Really, not much. Just one midi track in Logic, just turn off clock sync for the time being, set your OB-6 control mode to NRPN, local off and fire away. Start editing your sounds and eventually you'll get no MIDI IN in your OB-6. It seems specially frequent when playing long notes.

TacticalHamster · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2017, 04:18:25 PM »

Quote from: autoy on January 21, 2017, 04:00:43 PM

Quote from: TacticalHamster on January 20, 2017, 08:05:31 PM
What's the minimal that you need to do to cause this? I'm going to fire up logic tonight and test too.

Really, not much. Just one midi track in Logic, just turn off clock sync for the time being, set your OB-6 control mode to NRPN, local off and fire away. Start editing your sounds and eventually you'll get no MIDI IN in your OB-6. It seems specially frequent when playing long notes.

I did all that and more...but I think I know why it's fine:

Just realized I'm using a unit with version 1.0.0. Do I update? Crap.

autoy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2017, 04:43:27 PM »

Quote from: TacticalHamster on January 21, 2017, 04:18:25 PM

Quote from: autoy on January 21, 2017, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: TacticalHamster on January 20, 2017, 08:05:31 PM
What's the minimal that you need to do to cause this? I'm going to fire up logic tonight and test too.

Really, not much. Just one midi track in Logic, just turn off clock sync for the time being, set your OB-6 control mode to NRPN, local off and fire away. Start editing your sounds and eventually you'll get no MIDI IN in your OB-6. It seems specially frequent when playing long notes.

I did all that and more...but I think I know why it's fine:

Just realized I'm using a unit with version 1.0.0. Do I update? Crap.

If I was certain that's the fix I'd downgrade in a heartbeat, if that's even possible.

TacticalHamster · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2017, 05:20:54 PM »

Quote from: autoy on January 21, 2017, 04:43:27 PM

Quote from: TacticalHamster on January 21, 2017, 04:18:25 PM
Quote from: autoy on January 21, 2017, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: TacticalHamster on January 20, 2017, 08:05:31 PM
What's the minimal that you need to do to cause this? I'm going to fire up logic tonight and test too.

Really, not much. Just one midi track in Logic, just turn off clock sync for the time being, set your OB-6 control mode to NRPN, local off and fire away. Start editing your sounds and eventually you'll get no MIDI IN in your OB-6. It seems specially frequent when playing long notes.

I did all that and more...but I think I know why it's fine:

Just realized I'm using a unit with version 1.0.0. Do I update? Crap.

If I was certain that's the fix I'd downgrade in a heartbeat, if that's even possible.

I wonder if you could contact their support for prior firmware. There is a dedicated boot loader to flash it whatever, I think.

TacticalHamster · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2017, 05:31:49 PM »

What if you try setting MIDI clock to "nSS" (last one) and MIDI control to "on"? As I understand it, the last option is to disable external control (i.e. Should stay On for desktop modules at all times).

autoy · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2017, 02:51:39 PM »

Quote from: TacticalHamster on January 21, 2017, 05:31:49 PM

What if you try setting MIDI clock to "nSS" (last one) and MIDI control to "on"? As I understand it, the last option is to disable external control (i.e. Should stay On for desktop modules at all times).

No changes, as predicted because the issue happens regardless of sync setup, even with internal clock.

TacticalHamster · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2017, 04:00:10 PM »

After upgrading to 1.4.1 I can confirm this is happening EXACTLY as autoy is describing.

Everything was fine with 1.0.0.

With latest OS, simply adjusting wave shape on a VCO to square and adjusting PW on long-sustained notes will block all midi/usb data coming in. you have to restart the unit.

Here are some steps that usually do it (with Logic):

- Use first factory preset
- Set MIDI clock to whatever (I use NSS usually)
- Create an external MIDI track - or just a Software Instrument track, using an external midi as instrument (insert)
- playback long chords with some higher note changes (keep fundamental bass note looping)
- begin to modify the VCO (either) wave shape. try to sweep to square and then adjust PW

You will get the last notes played as a constant (regardless of new notes coming in). Even if you stop the DAW. The only fix is to turn it off/on (in my experience so far).

I was hoping the OP had defective unit as I wanted the velocity curves in latest update. But now my unit is having the same issues.

autoy · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2017, 04:27:23 PM »

Yep, same as me, I upgraded because of velocity curves and found the bug. At least I'm glad I'm not the only one, I'm sure this'll get sorted. To the rest of OB-6 users: don't upgrade to 1.4.1 until there's a fix.

TacticalHamster · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2017, 05:13:04 PM »

Now that same procedure i listed above doesn't do it, but changing a patch did. Ignore my specifics with wave shape, etc, just tinker around with the unit while long notes/chords play.

If you have a keyboard version, then local midi will still work, but external midi will be dead until restarted. As a software developer, it's better to find reproducible steps, and this doesn't have clear cut causes. I hope DSI team can check commit differences between the OS's and see if something modified is relevant to this.

TacticalHamster · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2017, 05:21:42 PM »

Note:

It maybe unrelated, but the 2nd to last time this happened (midi latch/lockup), i checked the globals.

Master Tune was set to -50. Previously, I both transpose and tune were at 0. The rest of the global parameters were how I set them or default.

I checked MIDI message log output from DAW and the only thing transmitting was raw pitch notes (no mod or other).

Does feel like a naive witch hunt, but maybe it helps DSI.

autoy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2017, 12:51:11 AM »

No witch hunt at all but rather a critical issue on an expensive equipment that needs to be acknowledged and fixed. It would help that someone with access to other DAWs other than Logic and OS 1.4.1 could reproduce the issue.

Other than that, it happens always and regardless of OB-6 global settings and Logic clock settings. I've only tested USB midi but I understand others have reproduced it with DIN midi too.

vcfvca · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2017, 05:40:04 AM »

Quote from: autoy on January 23, 2017, 12:51:11 AM

No witch hunt at all but rather a critical issue on an expensive equipment that needs to be acknowledged and fixed. It would help that someone with access to other DAWs other than Logic and OS 1.4.1 could reproduce the issue.

Other than that, it happens always and regardless of OB-6 global settings and Logic clock settings. I've only tested USB midi but I understand others have reproduced it with DIN midi too.

When I first got the OB-6 module in December and hooked it up to Logic I had exactly the same problems. It just seemed to stop responding to USB. The only solution was to cycle power. It seemed to work better with MIDI DIN. However, the main thing I discovered was that Logic Reset messages included CC#4 Foot Control - this effectively set the OB volume to 0. I disabled that command went back to USB and it's been good since then. I've also been using the clock over USB as well and that seems fine.

I also altered the Global settings which may have made a difference:

MIDI Clock = nss
Clock Port = USB
Parameter Xmit = nr
Parameter Rec = nr
MIDI Control = On
Sysex = USB
MIDI out = MID (not sure if that option will make sense with the keyboard version)

I haven't had any issues with these settings.

As for clock messages I send Logic clock to MIDI Patchbay (by Pete Yandell) and then use MIDI Patchbay to route clocks to all my gear. This could be unrelated but it works better for me this way.

I also did the recalibration thing as I was getting desperate. It took several attempts as the OB-6 kept hanging on the filters. But on the 3rd attempt it worked. Again, probably unrelated.

BTW OB-6 module firmware is 1.1.4.

autoy · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2017, 08:04:25 AM »

Quote from: vcfvca on January 23, 2017, 05:40:04 AM

Quote from: autoy on January 23, 2017, 12:51:11 AM
No witch hunt at all but rather a critical issue on an expensive equipment that needs to be acknowledged and fixed. It would help that someone with access to other DAWs other than Logic and OS 1.4.1 could reproduce the issue.

Other than that, it happens always and regardless of OB-6 global settings and Logic clock settings. I've only tested USB midi but I understand others have reproduced it with DIN midi too.

When I first got the OB-6 module in December and hooked it up to Logic I had exactly the same problems. It just seemed to stop responding to USB. The only solution was to cycle power. It seemed to work better with MIDI DIN. However, the main thing I discovered was that Logic Reset messages included CC#4 Foot Control - this effectively set the OB volume to 0. I disabled that command went back to USB and it's been good since then. I've also been using the clock over USB as well and that seems fine.

I also altered the Global settings which may have made a difference:

MIDI Clock = nss
Clock Port = USB
Parameter Xmit = nr
Parameter Rec = nr
MIDI Control = On
Sysex = USB
MIDI out = MID (not sure if that option will make sense with the keyboard version)

I haven't had any issues with these settings.

As for clock messages I send Logic clock to MIDI Patchbay (by Pete Yandell) and then use MIDI Patchbay to route clocks to all my gear. This could be unrelated but it works better for me this way.

I also did the recalibration thing as I was getting desperate. It took several attempts as the OB-6 kept hanging on the filters. But on the 3rd attempt it worked. Again, probably unrelated.

BTW OB-6 module firmware is 1.1.4.

Nope, no reset messages sent at all by Logic, already checked that. As far as I'm aware it only affects the keyboard version running 1.1.4.1 update, no reports of module version with this issue yet.

Chimponaut · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2017, 11:50:52 AM »

I've been using the din connection only because I had an issue with the USB earlier on. Can't remember what it was though. Recently I hooked up the USB again as I got the Soundtower editor and wanted to try it with that. So I have both DIN and USB connected. When I load an instance of the OB-6 in Nuendo it loads 3 tracks all at once.

1. A midi track set to OB-6 USB in and OB-6 USB out. This track is used for automating the OB parameters from the OB-6 interface itself. No controller involved. No other data.

2. Another midi track connected to my Controller in (Din) and OB-6 (Din) out. This track handles the midi notes only.

3. Finally an audio track for the inputs of the OB-6. This track serves as my monitor channel for the OB-6 in the Nuendo Mixer.

I am sending clock to the OB-6 via the DIN connection. I know this sounds convoluted but
I have all this saved as a multi track preset and it all loads up in one go. So far this setup has worked flawlessly. Even when automating lots of parameters. I read something in the manual about not using both the Din and the USB at the same time for certain things but I haven't had a single issue.

Globals are set as follows:
Midi Channel: All
Midi Clock: nSS
Clock Port: Mid
Parameter Tran: NR
Parameter Rcv: NR
Midi Control: On
Midi Sysex: USB
Midi Out: USB
Local Control: On

autoy · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2017, 05:00:23 AM »

Quote from: Chimponaut on January 23, 2017, 11:50:52 AM

I've been using the din connection only because I had an issue with the USB earlier on. Can't remember what it was though. Recently I hooked up the USB again as I got the Soundtower editor and wanted to try it with that. So I have both DIN and USB connected. When I load an instance of the OB-6 in Nuendo it loads 3 tracks all at once.

1. A midi track set to OB-6 USB in and OB-6 USB out. This track is used for automating the OB parameters from the OB-6 interface itself. No controller involved. No other data.

2. Another midi track connected to my Controller in (Din) and OB-6 (Din) out. This track handles the midi notes only.

3. Finally an audio track for the inputs of the OB-6. This track serves as my monitor channel for the OB-6 in the Nuendo Mixer.

I am sending clock to the OB-6 via the DIN connection. I know this sounds convoluted but
I have all this saved as a multi track preset and it all loads up in one go. So far this setup has worked flawlessly. Even when automating lots of parameters. I read something in the manual about not using both the Din and the USB at the same time for certain things but I haven't had a single issue.

Globals are set as follows:
Midi Channel: All
Midi Clock: nSS
Clock Port: Mid
Parameter Tran: NR
Parameter Rcv: NR
Midi Control: On
Midi Sysex: USB
Midi Out: USB
Local Control: On

That's certainly convoluted, just one question: what's your firmware version? Have you updated to 1.1.4?

Tele · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2017, 12:19:22 PM »

Hi,
i have the same Problem.But im running Cubase Pro 9.01.OB 6 Keyboard freezes all the Time. Cant say its only happening when i play Chords.Its also happening when i play some Unison Sounds.When it happens i have to power Cycle the OB 6.
Will test it with Pro Tools HD 12 also.But i guess it isn't a DAW issue.Im running 1.1.4.1.