The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: Sacred Synthesis on November 05, 2016, 05:20:33 PM
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They're getting there. If this is soon available in the US and the noted trigger issue is fixed, then there is another serious contender in the analog mono synth domain. Picture from Matrixsynth.
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Having never spent quality time with an original Odyssey, and being perfectly happy with the 86% version (for the price at which I got it), I did not know about this envelope trig issue until I searched it after reading your post - I just thought it must have been wonky on the original. I kinda wish I remained in ignorance.
In related news - Kraft is now blowing out the Rev II 86% version at $599.
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Sorry for the bad news. I owned all three Odyssey versions years ago, and now I'm considering the purchase of one of these new models. So, information on any flaws is top priority. How would you describe the problem?
If you didn't see it already, here's another discussion on the triggering issue:
http://www.vintagesynth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80956&start=15
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Additional pictures:
https://ask.audio/articles/is-this-the-next-synth-from-korg-arp-odyssey-fs-full-size-keys-revealed
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It's looking more hopeful still.
http://www.matrixsynth.com/2016/12/full-sized-korg-arp-odyssey-to-be.html?utm_source=dlvr.it
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It's definitely coming. I'm just curious about the price. Originally, I thought Korg would sell these as kits, just like they did it before with the MS-20. But the ad claims that these will be assembled in the US, which probably means that it's still going to be a kit that someone in New York is putting together for you before it goes on sale.
Anyway, the assemblage has to be paid for, just as the production of the full-sized components. The full-sized MS-20 kit was announced at about $1500 if I remember correctly. So I wouldn't be too surprised if this one ends up costing around two grand.
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It seems they'll be producing only a small number of these full-sized Odysseys, which is always frustrating for those of us who need to save up over some time in order to buy one. But it's still exciting to know they will be offered.
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Yeah, that's true. The thing is that the Odyssey reissue wasn't quite a smash hit; it didn't produce as much euphoria as the MS-20 Mini did. So from that perspective it makes sense to only offer a limited amount of full-sized Odysseys, given that they will also come at a higher price. Based on the latter, many will also compare them to more contemporary mono synths like the Pro 2 or the Sub 37, which of course offer far more features and are easier to embed in a modern studio in terms of MIDI control.
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I have to admit, I'm surprised the MS-20 has sold so well. People like to make bizarre sounds with it, thanks to the little modular bay. As it's been called, the "poor man's 2600." But it certainly isn't too good for sweet warm melodic type sounds. The Odyssey is much better at musical tones, as well as all the bizarre sounds. It also has the best filter sample and hold I've ever heard. So, I'm surprised the Odyssey didn't sell better. I'd still like to get one, but I don't know after just buying another Prophet '08 Module.
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I have to admit, I'm surprised the MS-20 has sold so well. People like to make bizarre sounds with it, thanks to the little modular bay. As it's been called, the "poor man's 2600." But it certainly isn't too good for sweet warm melodic type sounds.
Well, it's mostly appreciated for being dirty and aggressive sounding, mostly due to its specific filter combination. It's one of those classic punk and early industrial synths that - amongst many Rolands back in the day - has been the antithesis to particular anything Moog-related, which only rich people could afford, at least in Europe. That's wherein part of its appeal lies.
The Odyssey is much better at musical tones, as well as all the bizarre sounds. It also has the best filter sample and hold I've ever heard. So, I'm surprised the Odyssey didn't sell better. I'd still like to get one, but I don't know after just buying another Prophet '08 Module.
Funnily, the Odyssey was quite appealing to the punk crowd too because it can sound really mean and aggressive as well. And yes, it has a great S+H when directed to the filter. Maybe the MS-20 saturated the market a little, maybe it was because the Odyssey was almost twice as expensive when the reissue was released, dunno. I've also seen many people struggle with the interface because it can be quite confusing if you're used to the classic Moog-based panel layout. Although if there's anything confusing it's probably the patch bay of the MS-20.
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Although if there's anything confusing it's probably the patch bay of the MS-20.
Truth! (The flow seems to be more intuitive if you look in a mirror....)
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Although if there's anything confusing it's probably the patch bay of the MS-20.
Truth! (The flow seems to be more intuitive if you look in a mirror....)
;D
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$1,599.99 it is: http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2017/01/11/korg-bringing-back-full-size-arp-odyssey-making-it-in-the-usa/
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That's great news, except for one thing - those horribly profane words, "limited edition." That means, if you haven't the money either now or soon, you can forget about it. Well, perhaps it will be "limited" for a long time.
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Sonic State adds this bit of information:
"Korg tells us that only a small number of each is being produced so you may have to get in quick."
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That's great news, except for one thing - those horribly profane words, "limited edition." That means, if you haven't the money either now or soon, you can forget about it. Well, perhaps it will be "limited" for a long time.
I would be surprised if they produce more than 1000 of each model (which would already be a lot); my guess is rather 500 each. But I still think that it won't sell out over night. The price might not be bad, but it's also not cheap, especially when you compare it to other instruments in a similar category, which includes the Sub 37, the Dominion 1, and the Pro 2 to name a view. So my guess is that they won't sell like hot cakes. Most people might also not be willing to pay $1,000 extra just for a version with a full-sized keyboard. I think in that regard the module is already the best deal out there. Plus: You don't really get any enhanced functionality in terms of MIDI specs and all that. And you really only buy this for the particular ARP sound (of the latest Odyssey revisions), which is also not for everyone.
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True. I was thinking the module would be a much better and smarter deal as well. But there's nothing like a total synthesizer, keyboard and panel. It's more enjoyable and feels more musical to play a complete instrument, rather than a string of boxes.
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Sonic State adds this bit of information:
"Korg tells us that only a small number of each is being produced so you may have to get in quick."
If you're getting nervous about that I suggest that you should try out a module first (and then send it back within 30 days) before you take the plunge or not. I'm saying that because sometimes our memory plays tricks on us, which can also lead to slightly distorted notions about instruments we once thought of as being desirable. I know you once owned one, but it would still be worth to double-check whether it would still mean the same to you in 2017.
This doesn't count much, I know, but I at least was not really overwhelmed by the reissue. I mean it sounds okay and all that and you can create some crazy stuff with the ring modulation. For me at least, it didn't have the same sonic authority as the SEMs or the Minimoog though. It may be due to the context of Korg's reissues, but I would place it closer to the MS-20 than any Moog or Oberheim. So to me it appeared as just another mono synth, but not as one of the mono synths if that makes sense.
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If you're getting nervous about that I suggest that you should try out a module first (and then send it back within 30 days) before you take the plunge or not. I'm saying that because sometimes our memory plays tricks on us, which can also lead to slightly distorted notions about instruments we once thought of as being desirable. I know you once owned one, but it would still be worth to double-check whether it would still mean the same to you in 2017.
It's the truth and I've experienced it myself. We tend to idealize or romanticize our past, and the things we remember so fondly were not really so perfect. I've been surprised at my own modern preferences in instruments, which are now quite different what they had been and what I still expect them to be. One has to make very objective judgments about instruments, without too much sentimental attachment to the past. Simply, does the instrument do what you need it to do or not? Period. Cold, practical, and logical.
I was listening to some Oberheim Two-Voice Pro videos last night. They're starting to appear in numbers now. It has a very impressive sound - huge, fat, warm, and beautiful. Just gorgeous PWM. I would certainly put it in the Moog sonic category. The Odyssey I would put in a lighter thinner category, along with the Prophet '08. But I've (surprisingly) come to appreciate that slightly thinner quality, since it suits the sort of layering of sounds that I constantly use. The classic immense analog tone is great for single layers, but seemingly not for multiple layers, which can loose their clarity. This view is a change for me. So, I can better appreciate now both types of instruments.
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I was also thinking about your standard stereo setup. Achieving that with two Odysseys demands quite archaic means for any adjustment, especially if you wanna be precise (not precise in the sense of zero oscillator beating, but in the sense of "this is about the same sound on both channels"). It's certainly doable, but also a bit cumbersome. Not because the Odyssey is an overly complicated synth, but there's no poly-chaining option nor any more modern advantage, so you'd basically end up working on a sound on two machines simultaneously without being able to save anything. While the latter is not really a big deal on old analog synths, which are simple enough to make quick changes here and there anyway, I'm just wondering whether that wouldn't collide with how you would usually work and perform. Because it seems to me that you prepare everything very carefully to guarantee a very seamless performance in the end (in terms of sound and playability). If you'd be a live tweaker, who also wouldn't care too much about whether you play and record a solo voice in stereo or not, that would be different. In that regard the context matters a lot, especially if one is interested in these reissues.
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I was listening to some Oberheim Two-Voice Pro videos last night. They're starting to appear in numbers now. It has a very impressive sound - huge, fat, warm, and beautiful. Just gorgeous PWM. I would certainly put it in the Moog sonic category. The Odyssey I would put in a lighter thinner category, along with the Prophet '08. But I've (surprisingly) come to appreciate that slightly thinner quality, since it suits the sort of layering of sounds that I constantly use. The classic immense analog tone is great for single layers, but seemingly not for multiple layers, which can loose their clarity. This view is a change for me. So, I can better appreciate now both types of instruments.
Yeah, I see what you mean. The Odyssey is definitely thinner. As for the layering: I don't necessarily think that a solo voice would get in the way too much, especially since your improvisations usually contain no more than three basic layers: you have a bass voice, a pad or two, and a solo voice. That still allows for enough space and clarity. Plus: even the big sounding synths can sound lyrical or be used for more pastoral shades. In most cases it's even just a question of adjusting the internal signal level. And as you're using a mixer anyway, you can also always adjust its EQ settings for the according channels here and there. And then there's of course any use of reverb that will also help in shaping the sound.
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I know, I know. The Odyssey just doesn't look like the right instrument for the reasons you've mentioned. The lack of memory and MIDI Out would result in major clumsiness for seamless performances of pieces. I found it to be true with the Voyager Old School as well. Great instruments, but they just don't work for me. I had intended to experiment with controlling an Odyssey module with my upper Prophet '08. I think that would be a decent use of it, so that remains a possibility. But since I just (happily) spent my 2017 synthesizer money on a second P'08 Module, I'm left with selling something to afford something else. Until I see an instrument that really strikes me, I'll continue with my present set up. I mean, think of the regret that could come from selling a Poly Evolver Keyboard in mint condition for something new but unsatisfactory! Probably only DSI is the likely company to produce something sufficient. If they come out with a poly synth with the right architecture, then I'm ready and willing to sell, but not until. I'm quite hoping in DSI and anticipating good future news, as always.
I'm still half-intending to create an ideal mono synth, something founded on a superb instrument like the Pro 2 or Minimoog, and supplemented by a module or two. It has to have a superb analog quality, but also offer some digital waveshapes. But this may have to instead come through my upper Prophet '08.
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Yeah, I see what you mean. The Odyssey is definitely thinner. As for the layering: I don't necessarily think that a solo voice would get in the way too much, especially since your improvisations usually contain no more than three basic layers: you have a bass voice, a pad or two, and a solo voice. That still allows for enough space and clarity. Plus: even the big sounding synths can sound lyrical or be used for more pastoral shades. In most cases it's even just a question of adjusting the internal signal level. And as you're using a mixer anyway, you can also always adjust its EQ settings for the according channels here and there. And then there's of course any use of reverb that will also help in shaping the sound.
But I'm trying to increase the layering in both mono and poly patches. It's true that the mono patches are not as much of a concern as the poly, but I'm trying to stretch out a bit in both directions, while maintaining clarity. So far, though, the Prophet '08 has served me exceptionally well in both capacities. The layer mode combined with the B Output option makes creating stereo-imaged mono patches a snap, and they're not too dense even in the lower registers.
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I agree, you should especially not sell one of your PEKs for a reissued Odyssey - not even if it was twice the size.
Look at it that way: You've adjusted your setup to your needs and it just works as it is. No GAS, no problems. ;D
And I think you can be sure that if something comes around that could potentially pique your interest, you'll know that right away. Who knows? It might even be happening this or next year, as DSI are still very eager to release more synths in the coming years. Supposing that we can expect more synths with flagship status than ever before, they will most likely increase the variety of instruments.
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I'm not aware of any GAS problems. :-[ But is hoping for a new ideal instrument considered a symptom? ;D
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I'm not aware of any GAS problems. :-[ But is hoping for a new ideal instrument considered a symptom? ;D
It's probably closest related to eschatology. ;)
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An end times synthesizer? If there were such a thing, it would surely be called a Prophet!
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There you go.
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Looks like it'll have the same over hanging keys like the original had...yikes. I actually shudder every time I see those.
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Looks like it'll have the same over hanging keys like the original had...yikes. I actually shudder every time I see those.
Keys that are hanging over: yes, to some degree. But if I remember correctly that was only an issue of the 3rd revision. However, all of the reissued models have the same kind of enclosing housing (the bottom part that also consists of the side panels, or the "tub", however you'd like to name it) the first two original revisions used to have. So it's not exactly free hanging keys. They're still protected from underneath. In that sense, the reissue of revision 3 looks like anything but the original.
See pictures below.
(http://cdn.korg.com/us/products/upload/530f7b09c0aea44bec097c5198e23e00_pc.png?Expires=1487019730&Signature=j6uRVOBIZNZz-LCYLlNZLhb2DgH5OEaPzAF2QHxTL5z3IoxwX4w1LhMcEj4slcRTiFLu5hpU8ZyTbpKcD7r6H0JeuERm~9otszxNva0j5Z27rYpBBFFqrMqw-NuIVlRSXxG3TitBOG-IMLFVYHEmnAWTcehn5bzTdnh6KMAn1y9qth1mq5F9VO7YpFISEvTywQVAJTf9V7uC5etjAXVQCldIJTWgubMABrjjB~CzcNt3vKy4Q~K9vYElJvfp0j96OuFhbNl4uDBRQDDb00xRE3bo9UQHirfWyKbhxDQD6MTjOhcRonouFkJ~Ai9ws8StBJ6SAvP8dJd4FhZJk-vD2Q__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIQGL3XAA7HGZGU6Q)(https://i2.wp.com/www.synthtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/arp-odyssey.jpg?resize=640%2C466)
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Looks like it'll have the same over hanging keys like the original had...yikes. I actually shudder every time I see those.
The re-issue uses that wrap-around plastic case, which the old Mk III didn't have. The new version seems fairly protected; with the old version, you had to constantly look out for snapping off keys.
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I hope that Korg really brings the ARP name back. Leave all the Minikeys and things for the Korg brand name and have ARP be a top brand alongside Moog and Sequential. I would have liked to have seen more than just the Odyssey being looked at. Bring the Chroma, the Axxe, String Machines, Quadra back as well. Perhaps this is just testing the waters. I dunno, it's just little things like the ARP Odyssey desktop...it would have been cool if they called it the ARP Avatar since essentially the Avatars were Odyssey modules except with a useless guitar interface.
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I think currently most synth nerds would be happy to see a reissued 2600. There was this Reddit event with a representative of Korg (in November I think), where he said that something of that size would be unlikely to happen though. He agreed with it being cool, but not really compatible with the general mass market goals, since even a shrunken 2600 would still be significantly more expensive than the small Odysseys (which had to be lowered in price subsequently) or the MS-20 minis. But as far as iconic synths go, this would be the most likely one to follow. Maybe they'll just look and see how well the limited FS run will sell and base any future decisions on that. Maybe the ARP brand will become a sort of boutique store for limited reissue runs.
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I think currently most synth nerds would be happy to see a reissued 2600. There was this Reddit event with a representative of Korg (in November I think), where he said that something of that size would be unlikely to happen though. He agreed with it being cool, but not really compatible with the general mass market goals, since even a shrunken 2600 would still be significantly more expensive than the small Odysseys (which had to be lowered in price subsequently) or the MS-20 minis. But as far as iconic synths go, this would be the most likely one to follow. Maybe they'll just look and see how well the limited FS run will sell and base any future decisions on that. Maybe the ARP brand will become a sort of boutique store for limited reissue runs.
2600 reissues usually go for what? $2500-$3500? I think that's perfectly reasonable if Korg were to price it at that. Even if it's a limited run. I still want my Quadra reissue tho ;)
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I'm a Quadra fan as well - and 2600, and Omni....
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I'm probably the only one hoping they don't announce a 2600 reissue at Namm as I just hot hold of a TTSH kit to build!
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I'm probably the only one hoping they don't announce a 2600 reissue at Namm as I just hot hold of a TTSH kit to build!
Congratulations! Hope you will enjoy it. Know someone who build himself a TTSH and are to the best of my knowledge he is still appreciating it.
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I'm probably the only one hoping they don't announce a 2600 reissue at Namm as I just hot hold of a TTSH kit to build!
Even if they do, the build quality of the TTSH will be better.
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Congratulations! Hope you will enjoy it. Know someone who build himself a TTSH and are to the best of my knowledge he is still appreciating it.
I have lusted after one for a long time now, I'm definitely going to enjoy it :)
Even if they do, the build quality of the TTSH will be better.
I guess you have't seen my soldering ;)
To get back into practice I'm building the Klee that I have had sitting around for years, waiting for the eurorack front panel kit from synth cube to arrive to finish it off: http://synthcube.com/cart/klee-sequencer-full-kit-euro?search=klee&description=true
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Let's just start with a real bargain: http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/152393478225?roken=cUgayN
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No chance they will sell that at that price.
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I have to admit, I'm surprised the MS-20 has sold so well. People like to make bizarre sounds with it, thanks to the little modular bay. As it's been called, the "poor man's 2600."
I wasn't, as the MS-20 was a cheap synth, it became ridiculously overhyped, some people asked the price of a brand new Pro-2!
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I have to admit, I'm surprised the MS-20 has sold so well. People like to make bizarre sounds with it, thanks to the little modular bay. As it's been called, the "poor man's 2600."
I wasn't, as the MS-20 was a cheap synth, it became ridiculously overhyped, some people asked the price of a brand new Pro-2!
That's true. The MS-20 mostly received its laurels retrospectively. There are quite a few original users, who couldn't afford anything better back in the day, who basically said it was rubbish and indeed nothing more than a poor man's 2600.
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I never took to the sound of the MS-20. It was too thin for my liking, and the original lacked PWM. But it is an excellent little laboratory for learning synthesis and gaining some hold on the idea of patching. It was a great educational tool on the way to better things. I far preferred the Odyssey, though. They're both excellent laboratories, but the ARP sounds more musical.
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Alas, it's back!
http://www.synthanatomy.com/2018/01/namm-2018-arp-odyssey-fs-synthesizer-back-now-bundled-sq-1-sequencer.html
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Alas, it's back!
http://www.synthanatomy.com/2018/01/namm-2018-arp-odyssey-fs-synthesizer-back-now-bundled-sq-1-sequencer.html
With an "ARP" sequencer.
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I never took to the sound of the MS-20. It was too thin for my liking, and the original lacked PWM. But it is an excellent little laboratory for learning synthesis and gaining some hold on the idea of patching. It was a great educational tool on the way to better things. I far preferred the Odyssey, though. They're both excellent laboratories, but the ARP sounds more musical.
I must profess my love for the MS-20mini and perhaps my even greater love for my MS-10. The 10 I've had since my first days. I won it in a battle of the bands, doing my "Look ma, no hands!" Ron Mael impression, thank you very much! Anyway, it lives at my dad's house and I always find a space for it on whatever I'm recording when I come home. It's a lovely sounding instrument to me. By lovely I mean anything from sweet in the ear to teeth-hurtingly ugly. There's a "yowl" lurking in that filter. I'd never worked with an original MS-20, but I jumped when the mini was announced, and I adore it as much as I do the 10. My Micromoog will always sound like "synthesizer" to me. Even if I push it, it still remains identifiably electronic. Dr. Who, eh wot? But the MS twins have an organic, animal aspect that can lead me into weird and mysterious places. Plus, the 10's Ext In makes a great guitar overdrive!
Sorry to pull away from the ARP conversation at hand. I've used an Odyssey on a couple records, and loved it, but having access to them in studio has meant I've not "needed" one of my own. Not that I'd mind in the least, but that goes for about 36 other synths off the top of my head...
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That's an interesting opinion on the Ms-10/20. I wish you could convince me of it. I owned a brand new MS-20 many moons ago, and I found it a fascinating instrument, especially with the patch bay. But my memory is of a rather thin and harsh overall tone, not one I would call sweet, warm, or pleasantly melodic. I found the ARP Odyssey to be much more to my liking. My memory of the Korg is regularly supported by the YouTube demonstrations I watch, which tend to be by kids in their socks recording in their bedrooms. In other words, I seldom hear a really fine and serious musical application of the instrument. It seems to appeal to those who may not yet be too concerned with sweetness, warmth, and a pleasantly melodic quality.
In spite of all of this, I still wanted to buy one of the MS-20 kits when they were available, but my memories told me not to. The instrument still interests me, though.
What do you say, Ant? Can you change my opinion?
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That's an interesting opinion on the Ms-10/20. I wish you could convince me of it. I owned a brand new MS-20 many moons ago, and I found it a fascinating instrument, especially with the patch bay. But my memory is of a rather thin and harsh overall tone, not one I would call sweet, warm, or pleasantly melodic. I found the ARP Odyssey to be much more to my liking. My memory of the Korg is regularly supported by the YouTube demonstrations I watch, which tend to be by kids in their socks recording in their bedrooms. In other words, I seldom hear a really fine and serious musical application of the instrument. It seems to appeal to those who may not yet be too concerned with sweetness, warmth, and a pleasantly melodic quality.
In spite of all of this, I still wanted to buy one of the MS-20 kits when they were available, but my memories told me not to. The instrument still interests me, though.
What do you say, Ant? Can you change my opinion?
I suppose I'm at a place where I'm not wishing to convince anyone of anything! If I had examples handy of the MS-10 or 20 in action, used in what I claim are sweet ways, I'd point ye towards. My recordings are often so layered that I'd be hard pressed to say "See that bit there? MS-10 triangle in all melodic glory!" I'm not finding anything in my Soundcloud stack that would do the trick, but maybe I can grab the MS-10 from my dad's house and conjure something in the next few days. I mean, truth is, I DO reach for the 10/20 when I need something yowling and harsh. As I've said before, though, there's something deeply organic for me in the sounds those synths make, so "harsh" is more about feeling than tone. But I'm up for the challenge of conjuring the gentle purr of whatever strange demon lives inside that black metal box!
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MS-20s are a lot more suited to experimental drones, especially run through effect units. Plus the “audio in” input offers interesting elements as well. I was listening to the Shock Waves soundtrack while doing dishes this morning and I believe all of the score is done with Korg synths. I believe the MS series. Run through loads of reverb and tape echo machines. I find it’s much more of a background synth. Drones, loops, etc while you are doing something else Lead wise. I wouldn’t focus on it as the main element of a song but could I hear it droning in the background while a Prophet or a ARP or even bass or guitar play in the front? Darn right. In fact my friend showed me a metal band recently and they had the MS-20 running through a huge Orange amp just cranked. One of the scariest things I’ve ever heard.
Here...
https://youtu.be/TuLRos1c6sE
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Ant,
I meant "Can you change my mind?" only conversationally. Don't waste your time making a video for my purposes. But thanks, anyways.