The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum

SEQUENTIAL/DSI => General => Topic started by: timboréale on February 28, 2023, 05:40:40 AM

Title: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: timboréale on February 28, 2023, 05:40:40 AM
Prophet 5/10 desktop: 20.75" wide
Rev2 Desktop: 21.6" wide
Prophet 6 desktop: 21.25" wide
OB-6 desktop: 20.75" wide

Heights range from 7.4" to 7.9", or roughly 5U.

...

The available width of a 19" rack is about 17" +/-. I'm a little baffled as to why the desktops weren't designed around that dimension, but rather went "really damn wide" even for a desktop. Adding a U of height would have made for a much more usable tabletop package as well, IMO. 6U is a perfectly acceptable size for a rackmount synth (the venerable OB-Mx is 6U and that's a wonderful rack interface, IMO, so there's no argument against it from a "it just doesn't work" perspective that I could find valid). They change the layout already (in the case of the P12 it's changed utterly) from the keyboard version, so trying to keep "some" compatibility can't be used as an excuse either.

I get that "rack mount synth" is a genre, but they didn't have to advertise them as rackable. They could still be sold with wooden end cheeks and just maybe an optional "one-size-fits all pair of rack ears" to go with them.

For their dimensions they don't work at all for me, though, and so I can confidently say that I'd rather buy the keyboard version, which inherently limits the number of DSI synths I will own, flat out. If they were rackable I could easily see adding another ... perhaps several, really.

You lose a ton of flexibility for transport and mounting and gain.... wasted desk space. I don't get it. Enlighten me, please?

(P.S. I am not looking for "here are ways to franken-pseudo-rack them"... the 19" rack standard is a standard and like it or not it's useful, human-scale, and ubiquitous. Standards are always procrustean beds, that's just how it is.)
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Indigo V. on March 01, 2023, 05:40:39 AM
Part of the reason is probably that these desktop units sell better than rack units. People seem to want those knobs. There are a lot of people whos main reason to buy hardware are those damn knobs, not the sound quality. It's really stupid (in most situations). Also a lot of people seem to dislike external psus, an opinion I don't share either. You know, with external psus there would be more room to make desktop units fit into a rack. (maybe even with psu I don't remember exactly).

Another thing, although 80% off topic, are those damn keyboard-only versions. For studio synthesizers, this is soooo bad. 1 perfect sweet spot listening position + 1 midi master keyboard + 1 midi controller ( depending on master keyboard knobs) + Software Editors for the synthesizers (patch manager, nice recall etc.) = perfect for me.

This is so annoying by Moog but Sequential seem to be doing the same shit now, too, atleast to a certain extent. More than 10 years ago for sure.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: timboréale on March 01, 2023, 04:28:45 PM
Well my point is that if they made the *desktop* (yeah, with the knobs) version in a slightly different format they could have their cake and fit it into a rack too. I don't consider this a limitation. The Vermona Perfourmer has a frack-ton of knobs and it fits beautifully into a rack AND looks great on a desktop.

If a desktop can be 21" wide and ~7.5" tall, you get the same general real estate by making it ~17" wide to fit a rack and 9" tall which is a perfect 6U anyway. Which is what I was suggesting.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Indigo V. on March 02, 2023, 09:21:29 AM
Well my point is ...

I know what your point is. My whole answer was written to support your point. I'm would get rid of all my synthesizers if I could replace them with rack versions.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: timboréale on March 02, 2023, 09:55:15 AM
Ah, I read your first three sentences as saying that you thought a desktop and a rack were somehow viewed as different because of knobs. Not sure what the knobs have to do with it, is all, since either are just different proportions of the same thing with the same knobs. Anyways, glad to hear we agree!

I wouldn't get rid of any of my keyboards, but I'd certainly add more synths than I have now if there were more and better rackmount options out there that weren't all laminated-buttons and menu-divey (OB Matrix 6R and Crumar, I'm looking at you) or just no-buttons-worth-speaking-of (OB Matrix-1000 I'm looking at you too). I want knobs AND a rack, TYVM! ;)
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: hoodoo_ray on March 02, 2023, 11:40:04 AM
This is so annoying by Moog but Sequential seem to be doing the same shit now, too, atleast to a certain extent. More than 10 years ago for sure.

Which synths do you mean regarding Sequential? They had desktop versions of the PE, Mopho, P08, P12, P6, OB6, P5, P10, and I’m sure we’ll see one for the Trigon. The Evolver and Tetra were desktop only.

The only ones I can think of which are keyboard only are the PX and the Pro series. The PX probably didn’t sell that well, and was likely thought of as a ‘player’s’ keyboard (I don’t like that term tbh but hopefully you know what I mean), and I guess the feeling with the Pro series is that they were smaller footprints anyway.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Indigo V. on March 05, 2023, 05:13:20 AM
This is so annoying by Moog but Sequential seem to be doing the same shit now, too, atleast to a certain extent. More than 10 years ago for sure.

Which synths do you mean regarding Sequential? They had desktop versions of the PE, Mopho, P08, P12, P6, OB6, P5, P10, and I’m sure we’ll see one for the Trigon. The Evolver and Tetra were desktop only.

Pro 2, Pro 3, Prophet X, Trigon (I'm sure we will not see a module), Oberheim X8.

Mopho, P08 etc. are all DSI units no longer in production since a decade+ and  are exactly the reason why I said that "Sequential SEEMS to go into the same DIRECTION, alteast TO SOME EXTENT".
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Indigo V. on March 05, 2023, 05:19:28 AM
Ah, I read your first three sentences as saying that you thought a desktop and a rack were somehow viewed as different because of knobs.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. My impression is that people simply don't like rack versions because of the damn knobs and that is why companies don't build them anymore. I have my doubts that racks won't be profitable, because as you said, they are essientially the same so the research costs are low,  but I have no insider knowledge.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: chysn on March 05, 2023, 10:16:45 AM
Why dis a specific company for not doing something that nobody else does? Why doesn't Panasonic make VHS players anymore? Damn Panasonic, it would be so easy to just retool a factory to make a few.

But seriously, the ergonomics of rackmount synths were atrocious, and it was probably an intractable problem.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: timboréale on March 06, 2023, 05:20:57 AM
Why dis a specific company for not doing something that nobody else does?

Nobody? Every synth the fantastically successful Black Corporation currently makes is *designed* to fit in a rack. The desktop synths from Modal fit in a rack and even have rack kits. Moog made and likely will make again the Voyager and Slim Phatty in a rack and they're still going for serious money. Vermona's perfect perfourmer fits snugly in a rack. Shall I go on?

*digital* racks don't sell so well anymore, but analogue racks are alive and well and do just fine.

The reason I don't own more Sequential synths right now is that their desktops don't fit in a rack. And it's only a matter of changing the ratio of the rectangle they fit in. And I, for one, don't (agree? accept the validity of? find logical?) the argument that the rackmount format or ratio somehow hinders the interface, especially given all the examples to the contrary. 

That's really all I'm saying.

As an aside I think it would be super cool if *somebody* made a quality S-VHS mechanism so we could at least keep ADATs working... and I'd like to see a quality three-head tape deck with Dolby S and HX-Pro back on the market too, but one can dream. We used to say similar things about analogue, but now it's back and there's a good reason for it. Why be so negative about these mechanical, more human-scale technologies that have their own sonic and other quirks for which some of us find endearment?
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Indigo V. on April 13, 2023, 05:46:44 AM
Why dis a specific company for not doing something that nobody else does? Why doesn't Panasonic make VHS players anymore? Damn Panasonic, it would be so easy to just retool a factory to make a few.


that comparison is so off that it annoys me. WTF.

First off also Moog was mentioned. Secondly VHS is a technology while rack units are a formfactor with technlogy inside that is the same as in the bigger casings. And thirdly the ergenomics are not atrocious for everyone. I get that people want knobs etc. All good. But I want atleast an alternative. Even desktop units are not made for every synth.

I personally don't give damn about knobs because I have this crazy thing in my studio which is called a computer and on it there is this magic voodoo stuff that some people call software and this is, well it's totally out of this world crazy, this thing let's me remote control all my synthesizers and best of it all I can recall all settings and edit them while sitting in perfect sweet spot of my audio monitors while playing on single midi master keyboard and control knobs for everything.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: chysn on April 14, 2023, 10:16:34 AM
Why dis a specific company for not doing something that nobody else does? Why doesn't Panasonic make VHS players anymore? Damn Panasonic, it would be so easy to just retool a factory to make a few.


that comparison is so off that it annoys me. WTF.

First off also Moog was mentioned. Secondly VHS is a technology while rack units are a formfactor with technlogy inside that is the same as in the bigger casings. And thirdly the ergenomics are not atrocious for everyone. I get that people want knobs etc. All good. But I want atleast an alternative. Even desktop units are not made for every synth.

I personally don't give damn about knobs because I have this crazy thing in my studio which is called a computer and on it there is this magic voodoo stuff that some people call software and this is, well it's totally out of this world crazy, this thing let's me remote control all my synthesizers and best of it all I can recall all settings and edit them while sitting in perfect sweet spot of my audio monitors while playing on single midi master keyboard and control knobs for everything.

You're right. "Let people like things" has always been one of my mantras, and I'm not living up to that here. I apologize. Certainly more rackmount synths would do me no harm at all.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: hoodoo_ray on April 14, 2023, 11:31:33 AM
Why dis a specific company for not doing something that nobody else does? Why doesn't Panasonic make VHS players anymore? Damn Panasonic, it would be so easy to just retool a factory to make a few.


that comparison is so off that it annoys me. WTF.

First off also Moog was mentioned. Secondly VHS is a technology while rack units are a formfactor with technlogy inside that is the same as in the bigger casings. And thirdly the ergenomics are not atrocious for everyone. I get that people want knobs etc. All good. But I want atleast an alternative. Even desktop units are not made for every synth.

I personally don't give damn about knobs because I have this crazy thing in my studio which is called a computer and on it there is this magic voodoo stuff that some people call software and this is, well it's totally out of this world crazy, this thing let's me remote control all my synthesizers and best of it all I can recall all settings and edit them while sitting in perfect sweet spot of my audio monitors while playing on single midi master keyboard and control knobs for everything.

Yes but you can do that anyway from the ‘perfect sweet spot’ and ‘remote control’ from the computer. You can do that with desktops, even with the ones with the knobs. And you can even do that with the keyboard versions. So actually now you’re mixing technology with form factor.

But anyway, it sounds like your issue is not that, but rather that not all synths these days have versions which conform to the industry standard rack units. I understand frustration about that, but there are solutions for this. You can get a media stand to house such units, or a simple shelving unit - two cheap and practical solutions. Or something custom built. Or you can get something like this: https://www.thomann.de/gb/jaspers_150_6b.htm
Or something like this: https://www.thomann.de/gb/roadworx_synthesizer_stand_extension.htm
There are lots of ways round it depending on the space you’re in, and that’s from spending less than two minutes on internet searches, so there must be other options too!
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: g3o2 on May 29, 2023, 04:29:29 AM
But seriously, the ergonomics of rackmount synths were atrocious, and it was probably an intractable problem.

Back in the day, the ergonomics of the corresponding keyboard versions were often as atrocious. Lazy interfaces with a screen, four buttons and a wheel were simply considered modern. Imagine how sought after ROMplers would be today if they had the Prophet X’s interface or just a glimpse of it. Today, the Prophet 12 module is a great way to demonstrate what a minimal but useful interface looks like - the Hydrasynth appears to have been inspired by it.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: g3o2 on May 29, 2023, 04:40:38 AM
[…] I’m sure we’ll see one for the Trigon.[…]

[…] Trigon (I'm sure we will not see a module) […]

It would be a crazy decision not to release a Trigon desktop version. I don’t know about the success of the keyboard version but a “Memorymoog” in desktop format would be a world first.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on May 29, 2023, 06:15:27 PM
It's a question of the post-Dave Smith Sequential.  Will they or won't they continue Dave's outstanding tradition of issuing both keyboard and module versions of the same instrument.  That single-handedly made the old DSI my favorite synthesizer company, and it's been disappointing to see this tradition slowly fade away in the cases of new designs (Trigon [?], Take 5, Pro3, Prophet X).
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: LPF83 on June 08, 2023, 03:36:06 PM
It's a question of the post-Dave Smith Sequential.  Will they or won't they continue Dave's outstanding tradition of issuing both keyboard and module versions of the same instrument.  That single-handedly made the old DSI my favorite synthesizer company, and it's been disappointing to see this tradition slowly fade away in the cases of new designs (Trigon [?], Take 5, Pro3, Prophet X).

I confess to having had thoughts about how a Prophet X desktop might get my money. 

As far as the tradition though, it's probably one of those things where if they demand is there it will happen.  I'm not sure the PX was a great seller, and Take 5 and Pro 3 are already at an approachable price point even with keyboard, so if that's the case the Trigon 6 might be a better candidate for a desktop release.  But, if they aren't happy with the sales numbers  of the keyboard version they decide against it.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: LoboLives on June 10, 2023, 07:16:24 PM
It's a question of the post-Dave Smith Sequential.  Will they or won't they continue Dave's outstanding tradition of issuing both keyboard and module versions of the same instrument.  That single-handedly made the old DSI my favorite synthesizer company, and it's been disappointing to see this tradition slowly fade away in the cases of new designs (Trigon [?], Take 5, Pro3, Prophet X).

I confess to having had thoughts about how a Prophet X desktop might get my money. 

As far as the tradition though, it's probably one of those things where if they demand is there it will happen.  I'm not sure the PX was a great seller, and Take 5 and Pro 3 are already at an approachable price point even with keyboard, so if that's the case the Trigon 6 might be a better candidate for a desktop release.  But, if they aren't happy with the sales numbers  of the keyboard version they decide against it.

I think since the Focusrite purchase any non VCO only analog synths are pretty much abandonware. The PX is being phased out (although both Essen Kraft And Starky Carr seems to have done videos on it recently and highly praised it as a sleeper so who knows) and the Pro 3 doesn’t seem to be getting much follow up in terms updates. I still think Sequential and Oberheim have now been delegated to doing analog only...no wavetables,no  samples, no drum machines....that will all be left to Novation.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 10, 2023, 08:54:28 PM
It's a question of the post-Dave Smith Sequential.  Will they or won't they continue Dave's outstanding tradition of issuing both keyboard and module versions of the same instrument.  That single-handedly made the old DSI my favorite synthesizer company, and it's been disappointing to see this tradition slowly fade away in the cases of new designs (Trigon [?], Take 5, Pro3, Prophet X).

I confess to having had thoughts about how a Prophet X desktop might get my money. 

As far as the tradition though, it's probably one of those things where if they demand is there it will happen.  I'm not sure the PX was a great seller, and Take 5 and Pro 3 are already at an approachable price point even with keyboard, so if that's the case the Trigon 6 might be a better candidate for a desktop release.  But, if they aren't happy with the sales numbers  of the keyboard version they decide against it.

In the past, there wasn't a question about it.  There simply would be a module or rack version, and you could count on it.  Even the early modules resulted in keyboard versions (Tetra, Mopho).  I thought of it then as the character of the company, this pairing.  If this will no longer be the case, then an outstanding feature of the company has been lost.  And that would be very sad indeed.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: LPF83 on June 11, 2023, 07:11:41 AM
I think since the Focusrite purchase any non VCO only analog synths are pretty much abandonware. The PX is being phased out (although both Essen Kraft And Starky Carr seems to have done videos on it recently and highly praised it as a sleeper so who knows) and the Pro 3 doesn’t seem to be getting much follow up in terms updates. I still think Sequential and Oberheim have now been delegated to doing analog only...no wavetables,no  samples, no drum machines....that will all be left to Novation.


In the past, there wasn't a question about it.  There simply would be a module or rack version, and you could count on it.  Even the early modules resulted in keyboard versions (Tetra, Mopho).  I thought of it then as the character of the company, this pairing.  If this will no longer be the case, then an outstanding feature of the company has been lost.  And that would be very sad indeed.

That the OB-X8 desktop module was created might be a good omen; a module version wasn't really a staple of the Oberheim brand historically, but it seems in this case the market demand for it was heard and accomodated.

Personally I believe that perceived demand will be the primary driver for any new products we see emerge from Sequential, Oberheim and even Novation from this point on.  From what I've observed, producing synthesizers is a relatively slim-margin business where a lot of folks are in the game because it's a labor of love, much moreso than the option with the highest financial return. 

So in smaller companies (like the original DSI) or even the one-man-show companies, we tend to see products that are manifestations of what the owner wants to create.  But once a company grows (through acquisition or otherwise), the products that created are more heavily influenced by financial projections and strategic decisions about how to keep the company afloat.  If that is the case here, it's very different than how Dave used to say he designed new products -- according to interviews, it was all 100% driven by what he wanted to work on, without regard to market demand. 

To me this says there could definitely be changes to past patterns.  But as someone who was hoping for a module version of the OB-X8, I'm happy with what I'm seeing so far and very much looking forward to receiving mine.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 11, 2023, 12:02:26 PM
Yes, I agree.  Sequential has lost much of the original boutique-ness possessed by DSI.  Different principles seem to be now at work.  That much is obvious just from trying to communicate with them by email.  In the early days, I could send them a message at any time during the day and be certain to receive an email back by 10 PM.  It was wonderful.  Recently, I sent them two or three emails.  I was inquiring about a couple of things, including directly purchasing a Rev2.  After all these years, I was finally able to buy one!  But I never heard back, not even after several weeks.  At the same time, a DSI Prophet '08 appeared on Reverb in excellent condition and for a reasonable price.  So, what do you think I did?  Yup - I bought the P'08 and have no regrets.  I guess I'll never see a Rev2.

I don't perceive the company as I used to.  The one instrument that I would most like to buy is no longer a Sequential synthesizer, but the Korg ARP 2600M.  It actually makes me sad.

The instruments that I take to be representative of Sequential's future direction are not the Prophet 5/10 or the OB-X8, but the synthesizers of an entirely new design.  And that's where we see the lack of module versions.  I had seriously considered both the Pro 3 and the Take 5, presuming there would be a module version of each.  Two Pro 3 Modules could have happily replaced my two Odysseys.  Oh well. 

I'm honestly trying to like the new company, but it isn't working.  Sequential is looking like any other decent synthesizer company.  I know others will argue that it's all necessary and that this is what growth and progress look like in the modern market.  I realize that.  But these changes don't serve everyone's needs and purposes.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: LPF83 on June 11, 2023, 12:34:21 PM
Yes, I agree.  Sequential has lost some of the original boutique-ness possessed by DSI.  Different principles seem to be now at work.  That much is obvious just from trying to communicate with them by email.  In the early days, I could send them a message at any time during the day and be certain to receive an email back by 10 PM.  It was wonderful.  Recently, I sent them two or three emails.  I was inquiring about directly purchasing a Rev2.  After all these years, I was finally able to buy one!  But I never heard back, not even after several weeks.  At the same time, a DSI Prophet '08 appeared on Reverb in excellent condition and for a reasonable price.  So, what do you think I did?  Yup - I bought the P'08 and have no regrets. 

I don't perceive the company as I used to.  The one instrument that I would most like to buy is no longer a Dave Smith Instruments/Sequential synthesizer, but the Korg ARP 2600M.  It actually makes me sad.

The instruments that I take to be representative of Sequential's future direction are not the Prophet 5/10 or the OB-X8, but the synthesizers of an entirely new design.  And that's where we see the lack of module versions.  I had seriously considered both the Pro 3 and the Take 5, presuming there would be a module version of each.  Two Pro 3 Modules could have replaced my two Odysseys.  Oh well! 

I'm honestly trying to like the new company, but it isn't working.  It's beginning to seem like any other synthesizer company.

I look at it all differently.  I think Dave is somewhat of a hero for selling to Focusrite -- because if he hadn't, and had met an untimely death, Sequential would have just been gone overnight, with key employees all taking jobs at different companies, and more than likely the Oberheim merger would have never been possible.  The OB-X8 likely would have never happened at all.  I know not everyone cares about the Prophet 5/10 or the OB polys but these were both bucket-list synths for me, and now they are realities (well soon in the case of the OB-X8).  So I'm looking forward to what might emerge in the future.



Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: LoboLives on June 11, 2023, 08:18:33 PM
At the end of the day, all that matters is how you speak with your wallet. If the company isn’t releasing or doing anything that you are truly passionate about then it’s just money saved for you. I think their next synthesizer will be a key indicator of where the company is going as it will be the first product that won’t have Dave’s involvement.

Personally speaking I was liking where the company was heading. Sort of a darker, punky and rebellious type approach with more futuristic, industrial oriented instruments that sounded pissed off. The Prophet X, Pro 3...then they sort of took a step backwards...which is okay...I dig the Trigon 6 and Take 5 but I would hate to think that we are going to get robbed of a VCO/Wavetable hybrid poly from Sequential or even another drum machine. It’s okay if that’s the case because like I said, it saves me money but there’s still going to be part of me that thinks “what a waste.”
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: hoodoo_ray on June 12, 2023, 02:19:08 AM

I don't perceive the company as I used to.  The one instrument that I would most like to buy is no longer a Sequential synthesizer, but the Korg ARP 2600M.  It actually makes me sad.

The instruments that I take to be representative of Sequential's future direction are not the Prophet 5/10 or the OB-X8, but the synthesizers of an entirely new design.  And that's where we see the lack of module versions.  I had seriously considered both the Pro 3 and the Take 5, presuming there would be a module version of each.  Two Pro 3 Modules could have happily replaced my two Odysseys.  Oh well. 

I'm honestly trying to like the new company, but it isn't working.  Sequential is looking like any other decent synthesizer company.  I know others will argue that it's all necessary and that this is what growth and progress look like in the modern market.  I realize that.  But these changes don't serve everyone's needs and purposes.

I don't understand this take at all. Previously, still under Dave Smith, they decided to make the Prophet 5/10 and the OBX8. Previously they had released the Prophet 6 and OB6 - which while being more 'hybrid' in some senses, are still essentially classic analog poly synths.

There have been desktop versions released of all of those synths. There were no desktop versions of the Pro 2 as far as I remember, or the Prophet X. The Trigon 6 is the exception so far, and I am sure that the release of a potential of a desktop version will depend on sales of the Trigon - this is all happening while people are feeling a crunch financially across all of their main markets.

I therefore don't see the leap to saying that the new direction 'isn't working', they haven't even had the time to release a new product since!

In regards the support side of things, of course any time there is a take over by a bigger company there may be some initial issues etc., and maybe from this point there may be a slightly less 'personal' touch - but let's not pretend Focusrite are some huge, massive corporation - they have fewer than 500 employees themselves.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 12, 2023, 07:59:59 AM

I don't perceive the company as I used to.  The one instrument that I would most like to buy is no longer a Sequential synthesizer, but the Korg ARP 2600M.  It actually makes me sad.

The instruments that I take to be representative of Sequential's future direction are not the Prophet 5/10 or the OB-X8, but the synthesizers of an entirely new design.  And that's where we see the lack of module versions.  I had seriously considered both the Pro 3 and the Take 5, presuming there would be a module version of each.  Two Pro 3 Modules could have happily replaced my two Odysseys.  Oh well. 

I'm honestly trying to like the new company, but it isn't working.  Sequential is looking like any other decent synthesizer company.  I know others will argue that it's all necessary and that this is what growth and progress look like in the modern market.  I realize that.  But these changes don't serve everyone's needs and purposes.

I don't understand this take at all.

As I said, I was referring only to the last four new designs, none of which have had a module version since the Rev2.  This new direction isn't working for me.  That was my obvious point.  This signals a change in something that was a primary attraction for me.  As for the instruments that have been given modules, they're fundamentally old designs that are astronomically expensive.  This is obviously due to the shift to VCO-based instruments.  The older DCO-based instruments still sounded great and were much more affordable.

I don't know how far back you go with this company, but so many years ago it offered a nice range of products and prices.  You could buy small instruments for only a few hundred dollars and design and build up your own little synthesizer system.  Each addition increased the number of voices and the stereo/multi-timbral capabilities, so that the system was more than merely an odd assortment of parts.  It was a reasonable, flexible, and original approach to synthesis.  Those possibilities are now gone, unless you look to Reverb and Ebay.

Before I'm told again that...Focusrite, the market, business needs, growth in a competitive field...yeah, I get all that.  Let Sequential do as they must to serve a business objective, to make superb high-end instruments at a profit.  As a long-time fan and patron of theirs, I wish them only the best into the future.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: timboréale on June 12, 2023, 09:45:30 AM
As I said, I was referring only to the last four new designs, none of which have had a module version since the Rev2.  This new direction isn't working for me.  That was my obvious point.  This signals a change in something that was a primary attraction.  As for the instruments that have been given modules, they're fundamentally old designs that are astronomically expensive.  This is obviously due to the shift to VCO-based instruments.

A. Has Sequential ever made a desktop out of their monosynths? I don't think criticizing them for not making one of the Pro-3 is valid at all.
B. The Take 5 is a budget compact synth by itself, I think that it's in the same category as a monosynth for reasons why it's not a module.
C. The Trigon-6 is in the -6 format. Did those all get desktops at the same time as the keyboard release, or was there a delay for some of them?
D. I'm not sure about the -X. It seemed like the whole point was to compete with the Nord Stage series, effectively. A desktop version of this one doesn't make sense to me either.

I don't see the pattern that you're suggesting was somehow broken, personally. They seem so far quite consistent. I expect a Trigon-6 desktop at some point, depending on chips, market demand, and economics. If they don't, then ok, a single pattern will be broken. But to say it's a change of direction for the company... I don't buy it.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Oblong on June 12, 2023, 10:52:04 AM
To anyone wondering, it's pretty much the same support team here at Sequential! We have added a couple of new folks to meet global support demands, and that's about it.

If you have a technical support issue, please use the support request form to get in touch with us. Emails sent elsewhere may not make it into our queue, which would explain why no one got back to the poster above (we answer every email in our support queue).
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 12, 2023, 10:54:55 AM
Timboreale, I'm not going to argue about a personal opinion.  I'm simply saying that things are not serving one person's preferences as once they did.  It's not a definitive judgment, but only one man's opinion. 
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 12, 2023, 10:57:48 AM
Emails sent elsewhere may not make it into our queue, which would explain why no one got back to the poster above (we answer every email in our support queue).

I'm familiar with the protocol.  But I've sent several emails to support over the past year, with no response.  I do understand an occasional mistake.  But there's one more waiting for you right now.  Please get back to me.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 12, 2023, 11:13:16 AM

A. Has Sequential ever made a desktop out of their monosynths? I don't think criticizing them for not making one of the Pro-3 is valid at all.

B. The Take 5 is a budget compact synth by itself, I think that it's in the same category as a monosynth for reasons why it's not a module.

C. The Trigon-6 is in the -6 format. Did those all get desktops at the same time as the keyboard release, or was there a delay for some of them?

D. I'm not sure about the -X. It seemed like the whole point was to compete with the Nord Stage series, effectively. A desktop version of this one doesn't make sense to me either.

A)  DSI's first instrument was a mono synth module - the Evolver Desktop.  Then there was the Mopho Module and the Tetra (a 4-voice).

B) The Take 5 would be an excellent module, much like the Tetra.

C) There was usually a delay of something like six months, but we were generally sure the module was coming.

D) But it's still one more example of my point.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Oblong on June 12, 2023, 12:06:34 PM
Hi there, Sacred Synthesis. I don't see an email from you in our support queue (to note, every ticket in the daily queue gets answered - nothing is left to linger). Can I ask to what email address you sent your support request? If you created a support ticket, what's the ticket number? Do you recall who your support tech was?

*edited for clarity
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 12, 2023, 12:13:18 PM
Oblong,

That's strange, because I already received the standard company notice saying you've received my email.  I've received those in the past, too, but with no follow-up. 

I've always sent emails 1) directly to Tracy and 2) to the email address given on your "Contact Support" page - both.  Anyway, I sent you a PM. 
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: LoboLives on June 12, 2023, 12:43:06 PM
To anyone wondering, it's pretty much the same support team here at Sequential! We have added a couple of new folks to meet global support demands, and that's about it.

If you have a technical support issue, please use the support request form to get in touch with us. Emails sent elsewhere may not make it into our queue, which would explain why no one got back to the poster above (we answer every email in our support queue).

Would you mind taking a look at the Prophet X and Pro 3s sections of the forum please?. There’s quite a number of people having the same issue and we are hoping to get a statement from someone at Sequential. One person has given up and is just selling their bricked synth for parts now due to apparent lack of support.
Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: Oblong on June 12, 2023, 12:55:17 PM
Greetings, gentle folk. We're all quite busy, as you can guess, so the forum is not the best place to make support requests. I try to keep an eye on it when I can get the chance, but opening a support ticket is the very best way to bring our attention to an issue. Once we have your tickets, we can move quickly to resolve any issues you may be having.

Title: Re: Why aren't DSI desktops also designed to fit in a rack?
Post by: hoodoo_ray on August 15, 2023, 12:17:58 PM
https://www.sequential.com/product/trigon-6-desktop-module/

..in case there were still any doubters  ;)