The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OBERHEIM => OB-X8 => Topic started by: sacguy71 on January 14, 2023, 12:07:56 PM
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Quick question as I learn my new OB X8, can you enable the arpeggiator mode to hold so when I play a chord it keeps playing that pattern until I change it? I can do this on my Virus TI2 and if possible on the OB X8 that would be awesome!
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Quick question as I learn my new OB X8, can you enable the arpeggiator mode to hold so when I play a chord it keeps playing that pattern until I change it? I can do this on my Virus TI2 and if possible on the OB X8 that would be awesome!
No. The OB's arpeggiator doesn't do that. I talked with Marcus about this at Knobcon and made an 'in-person" Request For Enhancement - can it be made to work like other arpeggiators, but he basically shot it down pretty quickly. He pointed out that the OB does things, cool things, that other arpeggiators don't do, and that adds to the overall special nature of the synth. Could they make it work like arps on loads of other synths? Sure, but this one is different. Embrace it! He's not wrong IMO, and I have been embracing it. :-)
HOWEVER - I do really like the way other arpeggiators work, which is one of the reasons I got an LFE. The LFE has a more "standard" arpeggiator, so now I get the best of both worlds. And you can have the LFEs arp arpeggiate the OB's arp, so combined they got to whole new places. Booyah!
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I'm sorry but the arpeggiator on this synth is unusable? It's such as basic feature an this is a total pile of shite. This has to be addressed in the next os update. All of the DS synths have super arpeggiators/ sequencers. And so does the 0b6 - Regarding embracing the arpeggiator - there is nothing to embrace? It doesn't work properly? I can't even get mine to go up or down in a single line as expected?
Does anyone else have this problem? For £4.5 k I expect this to work perfectly.
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If there is one thing I have learned after playing synths since the 1970s - there is no perfect synth.
Sure they can build it, but you won't be able to afford it.
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The arpeggiator implementation is very poor. The screamingly obvious bug which renders the Hold feature unusable needs fixing. I’m surprised it hasn’t already been addressed.
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Since we are on the arp subject. I’m trying to work in split mode with an arpeggiated 16th note bass on the bottom which is a saved preset and an organ patch on the top but when I do this the organ also becomes arpeggiated. Trying to play VH Feels So Good, is this possible? Thanks
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Quick question as I learn my new OB X8, can you enable the arpeggiator mode to hold so when I play a chord it keeps playing that pattern until I change it? I can do this on my Virus TI2 and if possible on the OB X8 that would be awesome!
+1 please add this functionality.
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I don’t agree to the complain of the arpeggiator: This is an old school synth with it’s unique DNA. Many people have wrong expectations of a vintage/vintage style synth and lack understanding of the beauty of simplicity.
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Personally I would be fine with the quirks of it's operation and different hold mode if (frustratingly, like all of sequentials synths) the arpeggiator clock didn't reset every single time you hit a new note unless you legato move to another chord while always keeping a key down (this usually also messes with arp patterns having an extra wrong note from the previous chord if you don't time it absolutely perfectly.) Because of the lack of a latching and changeable hold mode, the only way to play an arpeggiated part that changes notes is to hold the keys down the entire time, but every time you switch chords it jumps the clock to start early or late out of time again. This is with the internal clock, clock sync input and midi synced clock. IDK why they do this on all their synths but its exacerbated on this one because of the lack of standard latching hold mode. Even a global setting to make the clock never reset like on most other arps (Juno 60, Moog Grandmother, Arturia Keystep, even my old Sequential Prophet VS) would be appreciated. They've added an "arp beat sync" option to lots of their synths, but in my experience that setting makes absolutely no difference to this behavior.
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It's sort of a weird conundrum. People lust for vintage style synths and approaches but with that it's sort of a "embrace the warts or don't" type of thing.
That being said...on a synth that's $5000+ it's pretty ridiculous to dismiss feature requests of things that are readily available on much more economical gear simple on the basis of "It's old school." The OBX8 and REV 4 synths are not point to point wired instruments...so the justification of "Well it's old school" is kind of silly.
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If it was “old school” + “working” I’d be happy. Hold a chord with the arpeggiator and press “hold”. It’s unusable.
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If it was “old school” + “working” I’d be happy. Hold a chord with the arpeggiator and press “hold”. It’s unusable.
I hear ya but it took while to convince Dave Smith to implement beat sync and MIDI out data on Sequential's arps/sequencers because he was a creature of habit and it wasn't originally implemented on the original MIDI spec.
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If it was “old school” + “working” I’d be happy. Hold a chord with the arpeggiator and press “hold”. It’s unusable.
Then sell it - there are people standing in line to buy one that have right expectations.
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I’d love to see them just add some additional Page 2 Arpeggiator options, so the original flavor can be maintained, but those who want these additional features can make better use of the synth in the workflows they’ve developed in recent decades.
I’m not a huge fan of the Rev2 arpeggiator either - the latch mode on that doesn’t release what it’s playing when you hit new keys, it just adds more notes, but for me it’s better than the X8. At least you can set it to Hold, then hit some notes with both hands and it starts on the beat. It also lets you dial in a BPM…
I think we will get some improvements here in time. Best we keep squeaking. ;-)
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For arpeggiator I use the MIDI plugin at Logic Pro, extremly powerful but still very simple. Here an example from a jam session with the arpeggiator last week, with a Waldorf MicroWave XT but can be applied to the OB-X8 as well and record all CC movements as we did here:
https://youtu.be/1dmP4jZ26PE
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If it was “old school” + “working” I’d be happy. Hold a chord with the arpeggiator and press “hold”. It’s unusable.
Then sell it - there are people standing in line to buy one that have right expectations.
Oh please. Have you even used it? Are you seriously suggesting that the hold function is working correctly? Hold a chord with the arpeggiator on and then press the hold button.
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If it was “old school” + “working” I’d be happy. Hold a chord with the arpeggiator and press “hold”. It’s unusable.
Then sell it - there are people standing in line to buy one that have right expectations.
Oh please. Have you even used it? Are you seriously suggesting that the hold function is working correctly? Hold a chord with the arpeggiator on and then press the hold button.
Of course I have!! And it works perfectly well for the DNA it is a line of, without any mutations. For more advanced arpeggiator operations there are modern tools such the arpeggiator at Logic Pro as mentioned above. Again: It all comes back to expectations.
I trust Tom Oberheim, Dave Smith and Marcus Ryle had discussed it, knowing exactly what they were doing. Who am I to add anything to their strategy of of building the worlds best synthesizers in history, saying hey wait, I have thought about something you missed! It would be the most pathetic thing I would done among all pathetic stupid things I’ve done.
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It literally skips when you engage the hold button. On what planet is that intended behaviour?
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If it was “old school” + “working” I’d be happy. Hold a chord with the arpeggiator and press “hold”. It’s unusable.
Then sell it - there are people standing in line to buy one that have right expectations.
Oh please. Have you even used it? Are you seriously suggesting that the hold function is working correctly? Hold a chord with the arpeggiator on and then press the hold button.
Of course I have!! And it works perfectly well for the DNA it is a line of, without any mutations. For more advanced arpeggiator operations there are modern tools such the arpeggiator at Logic Pro as mentioned above. Again: It all comes back to expectations.
I trust Tom Oberheim, Dave Smith and Marcus Ryle had discussed it, knowing exactly what they were doing. Who am I to add anything to their strategy of of building the worlds best synthesizers in history, saying hey wait, I have thought about something you missed! It would be the most pathetic thing I would done among all pathetic stupid things I’ve done.
Seeing as both Dave Smith and Tom Oberheim implemented firmware updates with more features on their most recent synths I would suggest they weren't snobs about listening to feedback.
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It literally skips when you engage the hold button. On what planet is that intended behaviour?
This is what happens when nostalgia is the driving force behind things. Keep in mind, there's nothing wrong with nostalgia but I do feel it starts to create a bit of a skewed mindset when it comes to these type of things.
I was watching a video the other day and it asked the question "Are companies rushing out incomplete instruments?" in regards to OS updates/bugs/missing features etc. Not that I agree with that totally but I do get the impression that instruments are given a short window to be developed to their full potential before the company just moves on to the next instrument and it's the majority of it's catalog becomes abandonware. I think a lot of them sort of thrive on that fanboy/blind agreement type consumer and I'm seeing more and more companies push back against things like bug fixes/new features. Maybe it's a case of "strike while the iron is hot. Get their money and move on before they get tied down."
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It literally skips when you engage the hold button. On what planet is that intended behaviour?
This is what happens when nostalgia is the driving force behind things. Keep in mind, there's nothing wrong with nostalgia but I do feel it starts to create a bit of a skewed mindset when it comes to these type of things.
I was watching a video the other day and it asked the question "Are companies rushing out incomplete instruments?" in regards to OS updates/bugs/missing features etc. Not that I agree with that totally but I do get the impression that instruments are given a short window to be developed to their full potential before the company just moves on to the next instrument and it's the majority of it's catalog becomes abandonware. I think a lot of them sort of thrive on that fanboy/blind agreement type consumer and I'm seeing more and more companies push back against things like bug fixes/new features. Maybe it's a case of "strike while the iron is hot. Get their money and move on before they get tied down."
Actually I think Sequential (at least under Dave's direction) was pretty good about eventually getting the bugs worked out of their products.
But I think what you're referring to overall is a side effect of two things : 1) Increased dependency on software instead of circuitry (2) Trends in software development that lean toward "ship now, fix later" mentality.
In the early 2000's, "Agile" became a thing in software, which to summarize is less about getting it right the first time, and more about continuous and incremental updates. Get it in the customer's hand early, even if it's buggy as crap, and let the feedback from that drive the product direction, rather than big up front design where lots of guesses needed to be made about what will be successful in the long term.
An unfortunate side effect of this is that a lot of companies scaled back on testing resources, in effect kind of letting the customer be the beta tester. Yes there are some merits to the approach but the problem was that "we can always update it later" became the norm. Fast forward to 2023, and the constant, relentless updates to everything are the bane of my existence. I'm not sure there is a way to reverse the trend but I'm so tired of getting notifications for updates to every little plugin I own. Granted, it's getting better as a lot of vendors (Arturia, Native Instruments, etc) have invested in much more seamless update managment apps.
Anyway because much of synths functionality today is in software instead of discrete components, getting a product to market in time for a trade show is probably going to be seen as a higher priority than having all the bugs worked out.
I've been happy with my Sequential purchases to date. Granted, most of them were relatively mature in their product lifecycle when I bought them (with the exception of the Prophet 10 which I bought in the first year of release), but patience has paid off in terms of the features that were added later I think.
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Uppdate of firmware etc is nothing new: The Model D sent through 3 major revs plus 2 ReIssues, the Peophet 5 went through 3 major plus some minor revs plus rev 4. I have an Oberheim Xpander that went through different firmware updates and I had to swap IC at the main board for that.
The firmware updates of the P5/10 rev 4 has been fantastic adds to functionality but still was awesome from 1.0 (except the 200 first units, but admitted a mistake was done and toke care of that in a first class way).
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The firmware updates of the P5/10 rev 4 has been fantastic adds to functionality but still was awesome from 1.0 (except the 200 first units, but admitted a mistake was done and toke care of that in a first class way).
The aftertouch sensitivity fix was a long time coming, but I'm very happy with the end result.
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It literally skips when you engage the hold button. On what planet is that intended behaviour?
This is what happens when nostalgia is the driving force behind things. Keep in mind, there's nothing wrong with nostalgia but I do feel it starts to create a bit of a skewed mindset when it comes to these type of things.
I was watching a video the other day and it asked the question "Are companies rushing out incomplete instruments?" in regards to OS updates/bugs/missing features etc. Not that I agree with that totally but I do get the impression that instruments are given a short window to be developed to their full potential before the company just moves on to the next instrument and it's the majority of it's catalog becomes abandonware. I think a lot of them sort of thrive on that fanboy/blind agreement type consumer and I'm seeing more and more companies push back against things like bug fixes/new features. Maybe it's a case of "strike while the iron is hot. Get their money and move on before they get tied down."
Actually I think Sequential (at least under Dave's direction) was pretty good about eventually getting the bugs worked out of their products.
But I think what you're referring to overall is a side effect of two things : 1) Increased dependency on software instead of circuitry (2) Trends in software development that lean toward "ship now, fix later" mentality.
In the early 2000's, "Agile" became a thing in software, which to summarize is less about getting it right the first time, and more about continuous and incremental updates. Get it in the customer's hand early, even if it's buggy as crap, and let the feedback from that drive the product direction, rather than big up front design where lots of guesses needed to be made about what will be successful in the long term.
An unfortunate side effect of this is that a lot of companies scaled back on testing resources, in effect kind of letting the customer be the beta tester. Yes there are some merits to the approach but the problem was that "we can always update it later" became the norm. Fast forward to 2023, and the constant, relentless updates to everything are the bane of my existence. I'm not sure there is a way to reverse the trend but I'm so tired of getting notifications for updates to every little plugin I own. Granted, it's getting better as a lot of vendors (Arturia, Native Instruments, etc) have invested in much more seamless update managment apps.
Anyway because much of synths functionality today is in software instead of discrete components, getting a product to market in time for a trade show is probably going to be seen as a higher priority than having all the bugs worked out.
I've been happy with my Sequential purchases to date. Granted, most of them were relatively mature in their product lifecycle when I bought them (with the exception of the Prophet 10 which I bought in the first year of release), but patience has paid off in terms of the features that were added later I think.
I’m not against this approach at all in theory...but it’s all contingent on follow through of the actual company.
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Uppdate of firmware etc is nothing new: The Model D sent through 3 major revs plus 2 ReIssues, the Peophet 5 went through 3 major plus some minor revs plus rev 4. I have an Oberheim Xpander that went through different firmware updates and I had to swap IC at the main board for that.
The firmware updates of the P5/10 rev 4 has been fantastic adds to functionality but still was awesome from 1.0 (except the 200 first units, but admitted a mistake was done and toke care of that in a first class way).
You are confusing hardware updates with firmware. Before, and in many cases now, you have to buy an entirely new machine to get the updated functionality and bug fixes. I’m sure a lot of Quantum owners are livid right now...
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It literally skips when you engage the hold button. On what planet is that intended behaviour?
I was messing around last night syncing to my DAW and realized if you press the Hold button before hitting keys it was much easier to hit the beat, as opposed to hitting Hold while and arp is already playing (which as we have discussed, causes the arp to stutter and be out of sync). Squeak squeak!
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Uppdate of firmware etc is nothing new: The Model D sent through 3 major revs plus 2 ReIssues, the Peophet 5 went through 3 major plus some minor revs plus rev 4. I have an Oberheim Xpander that went through different firmware updates and I had to swap IC at the main board for that.
The firmware updates of the P5/10 rev 4 has been fantastic adds to functionality but still was awesome from 1.0 (except the 200 first units, but admitted a mistake was done and toke care of that in a first class way).
You are confusing hardware updates with firmware. Before, and in many cases now, you have to buy an entirely new machine to get the updated functionality and bug fixes. I’m sure a lot of Quantum owners are livid right now...
That is not confusing, just different ways to update electronic devices for different ages. Today we can flush EPROMS etc, time passed that was not an option. But yes, it can be different things but that is not what this question is about but improvements to an exciting electronic architecture.
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I understand making the OB-X8’s arp work like a vintage Oberheim’s arpeggiator. Back then, they were making this stuff up as the went and, in the intervening 40-odd years, synth companies have come up with a standard for how an arpeggiator should work that we’re all used to. This vintage-style implementation has some quirks and features that make it unique but it’s, overall, a whole lot less usable than other synth.
I’d love it if a future firmware update had a vintage/modern arp mode so the user could make this choice. I find that I never use the arp on my X8 and save my OB6 for all arpeggio duties.
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I understand making the OB-X8’s arp work like a vintage Oberheim’s arpeggiator. Back then, they were making this stuff up as the went and, in the intervening 40-odd years, synth companies have come up with a standard for how an arpeggiator should work that we’re all used to. This vintage-style implementation has some quirks and features that make it unique but it’s, overall, a whole lot less usable than other synth.
I’d love it if a future firmware update had a vintage/modern arp mode so the user could make this choice. I find that I never use the arp on my X8 and save my OB6 for all arpeggio duties.
Yes, for a 5k synth it definitely needs better arpeggiator options. My Virus runs circles around my OB X8 in this area in that I can not only hold the arp but choose dozens of arp modes and patterns. Don’t get me wrong, the OB X8 is fantastic but even the Sequential Prophet synths have a better arp sequencer.
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well thankfully its how it should be, I thought for a day that I had a faulty synth, so what im saying is the arp is that bad that I thought it was a fault! disappointing at 8k here in Aust
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Coming back to the Arp HOLD Switch Discussion, in the Manual it is explained this way:
• HOLD: This switch allows the voices that are latched by the master hold switch to be arpeggiated. To use this feature, hold a selection
of keys to be arpeggiated, then press the hold switch in the Master section. Release the keys and the notes will arpeggiate. Any free voices can now be played over the latched arpeggiation. The notes can be released by pressing Master hold once more. Pressing kbd while an arpeggiation is latched by Master Hold reverts the notes to a latched chord. Pressing the Lever Box hold switch again reverts the latched keys to the previously-latched arpeggiation.
On my OB-X8 with the latest Firmware, this is not working. When i hold a Chord and press HOLD, nothing happens. I made sure i am in Arp Mode and Arpeggiate is engaged.
Is this a confirmed Bug?
Thanks!