The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Prophet '08 => Topic started by: Robot Heart on August 17, 2016, 05:44:36 PM
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You must install both the Main and Voice OS.
**If you are going to revert to a previous OS, you *must* downgrade the Voice OS first.**
ALWAYS BACKUP YOUR IMPORTANT WORK VIA SYSEX DUMP BEFORE ATTEMPTING ANY OS UPDATES!!
Not that we're expecting bad things to happen, but it's better to be safe than sorry. These OS updates are labelled 'Beta' for a reason; there could be something small that was overlooked that didn't get caught in our testing. Just remember, you're never going to say to yourself "Man, I wish I hadn't backed that up..."
We do not recommend using the following MIDI interfaces for sysex transfers as we have had multiple users experience problems with them:
Native Instruments Maschine
Digidesign Mbox/Mbox2
Digidesign 001/002
CME U2MIDI
If you're on a Mac we recommend using SysEx Librarian (https://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/) to handle the update
To configure SysEx Librarian:
In 'Sysex Librarian->Preferences':
In tab ‘General’ set ‘Pause between played messages’ to 1 second
In tab ‘Transmit Speed’ set speed to 80%
If you have trouble installing, first try setting transmit speed to alternate settings. We have had reports of speeds from 25% to 100% working for some users where 80% failed
If you're on a PC we have had the best luck with SendSX (https://www.bome.com/products/sendsx) and MIDI-OX (http://www.midiox.com/). Both are free downloads and work across the Windows line of OS versions.
To configure SendSX:
Install the beta 1.30 version, not the 1.22, to give you more options for speed settings
Make sure 'Split long sys ex messages' is off in the Options menu
In 'Options->Settings' change the speed to ~80% (1.29KB/s works well for us here)
If you have trouble installing, first try setting transmit speed to alternate settings. We have had reports of speeds from 25% to 100% working for some users where 80% failed
To configure MIDI-OX:
Install version 7; version 7.0.0.365 works great here
In View->Sysex then Sysex->’Configure…’
Set the Low Level Output Buffers to Size: 1024 and Num: 1024
Set ‘Delay Between Buffers’ to 375 milliseconds
Check ‘Delay After F7’ and set delay to 1000 Milliseconds
If the OS load countdown freezes before completing you'll need to change the buffer settings and try again
Try doubling or quadrupling the Size setting to start, and halving/doubling the number of buffers
If you experience problems loading the OS and have tried the alternate speed/buffer settings, try the other program. In some instances Send SX works where MIDI OX did not, and vice versa
To check if the OS update was properly installed, power cycle the Prophet 08. Hold down 'Global' and press 'LFO 1' to display both the Main and Voice OS version numbers.
If your OS update failed:
Update your MIDI drivers for your MIDI interface to the latest or last known stable version
Try alternate speed settings: transfer speed settings as low as 25% and as high as 100% have worked for some users when 80% did not
Try an alternate MIDI interface. The M-Audio MIDI Sport Uno works well here and is relatively cheap
In Windows with MIDI OX on Windows XP: Try doubling or quadrupling the Size setting to start, and halving/doubling the number of buffers
Search google and/or forums for the company that produces your MIDI interface to see if other users are having similar problems with Sysex transfers and whether there is a solution specific to your interface
If you are on Windows XP, try another OS or machine. Although it's not ideal, we have had less problems with Mac OSX and Windows 7. Windows XP has known issues with sysex transfers
Changelog
Main OS 2.6.1
Fixed bug: Global bounds wrong preventing selection of dump program menu item
Main OS 2.6
Added arp relatch mode
LFO external sync improved and tweaked
Fixed bug: Env 3 Amount, Filter Env Amount, and Mod Amount do not get reset to 0 value when +Yes/-No are pressed simultaneously- they get set to -28
Fixed bug: MIDIParamLCD on/off doesn't work, automated parameters are still displayed when MIDIParamLCD is off
Fixed bug: Unison Last note priority behaves like low note priority
Fixed bug: Hung notes in certain Unison modes when multiple keys held
Fixed bug: LFO Key Sync LED not lighting correctly based on current LFO param
Fixed bug: Unison detune not reacting independently on each layer
Fixed bug: Param 1&2 currently send MIDI when performing a layer copy function
Fixed bug: When changing Osc Frequency, not able to reach C10 with pots when in relative mode
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Thank you.
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Hello,
i' d like to know, why these files are not downloadable from the davesmith main site .
Are they a kind of beta? or are they 100% working?
Thank you in advance
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They are beta OS files. We only post official releases on the DSI website.
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I had to recalibrate the pitch- and modwheel after this update.
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Hi,
When I update my Tempest it prompts me to take the audio cables out before doing the firmware update but when updating my Prophet 08 it does not.
Is it good practice to take the audio cables out of the Prophet 08 before updating or this Tempest specific?
Thanks!
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Hi,
When I update my Tempest it prompts me to take the audio cables out before doing the firmware update but when updating my Prophet 08 it does not.
Is it good practice to take the audio cables out of the Prophet 08 before updating or this Tempest specific?
Thanks!
Bumped to new thread!
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Thank you for supporting this great synthesizer!
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Found it! YAY, an arpeggiator that works the way it should. Now an update to the sequencer.
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Team,
For Midi OX Version 7.0.2.372 Size 24 Num 1024 worked well.
I didn't fid the Delay Entry Fields, so I played with several values.
Best
JAK
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Greetings,
can someone explain what a relatch mode is ? My dictionary does not know the word relatch.
Also, is this OS still being worked on ? When will there be a final version ?
Thanks
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Relatch mode for the arpeggiator moves the arpeggio that is playing to the new keys you press. With relatch off, new key presses are added to the current arpeggio.
There will be no more development on this OS.
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Is there a way to turn Wave Reset on or off in this OS?
If so, could you tell me how?
Thanks in advance.
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Ever since I have loaded this version 2.6 and Voice 1.6 the gated sequencer has been broken. I have just discovered that while running a 4 layer sequence Seq 1 = Osc all Freq ( a bass line in 8ths ) Seq 2= resonance, or osc mix or other params ( trying various as a test ) Seq 3= Noise Level Seq 4= Low Pass … When changing the values of each step in Seq 2, whether it be set to Osc pulse w or resonance or osc mix, the pitches of the oscillators get affected and combine with the modulation destination chosen on that step not in a good way. This is my second problem discovered I'll post the other shortly. Anybody else ?
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problem 2 since Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 update : I discovered that the factory preset "No Corn Yet" does not work correctly anymore. This patch is a good example how to make a double length 32 step sequence. The patch's layer A (melody) has two note sequences playing at the same time, Osc Mix is set to 0, Seq 1 Osc 1 is playing the first half of the pattern (2 bars) and seq 2 Osc 2 is playing the second half (2 bars) LFO 1 sync on is set to a Pulse Square shape with Osc Mix as destination Freq=32 st Amount 127. In theory every 32 steps the pulse wave is supposed to modulate osc mix balance effectively alternating osc 1 full on then osc 2 full on creating a 32 step sequence. This used to work prior to 2.6 and Voice 1.6 but now the switch from osc 1 to osc 2 by the LFO is acting random with unpredictable results. I made a patch that used this method and that to used to work flawlessly… Take a look at No Corn Yet preset and see if yours does this as well.. I'm wondering if it's worth it to go back to the old OS so that this and the other problem I discovered clears up ?
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Yes, I discovered the exact same thing back when this version came out. I chalked it down to being a beta, but with the cessation of further development we'll have to live with the choice of either a working sequencer or the new functions of this OS. Or just switch to the REV2…
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Yes, I discovered the exact same thing back when this version came out.
Yes We both met on the other DSI forum that seems to have been hijacked these days !! It bothers me so much because I use the P08 extensively in my music and I love it so much, but it is hurting and not 100 % the way it should be out of the box !!! REV 2 I guess… But what about the people who only run the OS that is published on DSI support, aren't they happy with their P08's do they think they are missing anything that we gain in this beta ?
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Yes We both met on the other DSI forum that seems to have been hijacked these days !! It bothers me so much because I use the P08 extensively in my music and I love it so much, but it is hurting and not 100 % the way it should be out of the box !!! REV 2 I guess… But what about the people who only run the OS that is published on DSI support, aren't they happy with their P08's do they think they are missing anything that we gain in this beta ?
So we meet again!
To your question I'd say we'll never know, since these are not the kind of people who'd frequent these forums. My guess is they're very happy, just as I have been since I got my Prophet in 2009 with the comparatively ancient OS on it. I would just like to state my satisfaction with the news of the REV 2, because we really did get a true successor that is better in every way, except for the display of saved parameters, of course. This means we won't have to live forever with a flawed or incomplete instrument as we do have the prospect of real progress.
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Boy, am I glad I've got the 2.3/1.5 version in my Prophet '08 units. I had intended to update, but I'm glad I didn't. I do occasionally have a hanging note, but only once in a while and it's easy enough to stop. Otherwise, I never have a problem with my instruments. I'm sorry to see that you guys feel as if you've got half-baked instruments. Not at all in my case.
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Sacred so your P08 does not have arpeggiator normal & re-latch modes like mine does with beta OS ??
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Hey Everyone! I came here because I just found out about the Arp Relatch mode so I came running to update to the Beta, but so I basically have to choose between that or a working sequencer?
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Hey Everyone! I came here because I just found out about the Arp Relatch mode so I came running to update to the Beta, but so I basically have to choose between that or a working sequencer?
Just go for it after updating perform a test using all 4 tracks of the sequencer try to make it glitch. Make a track for pitch, a track for filter cutoff, a track for noise level, a track for resonance. If it behaves as expected then you're fine, if it starts to glitch then roll back to 2.3. I really love the arpeggio update so I'm living with the fact that I can get my sequencer to glitch because it's not my main use for my 08.
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Given the bugs that were fixed but also introduced, I think you guys should release a new OS version.
I would also love a midi command to trigger the Edit B knob in order to edit both layers at the same time.
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Hallo Herr Schmitz (bei dem Alias könnten wir uns womöglich in Deutsch unterhalten?),
Your wish seems next to obsolete to me: When controlling by MIDI, You normally will be able to make Your controller send commands to layer A and B.
Martin
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Hello, no it's not obsolote. I edit my Prophet 08 exclusively with the official Editor. Suppose I want to have A+B similar but with some differences. So, most of the the time I have Edit B in "Blink Mode", so both Layers react to the editor. The advantage here is, that I only have to turn a knob once, to change both layers. If I want to edit something exclusively on one layer, I disable Edit B "Blink Mode". This is the fastest way.
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OK, I see Your point
Martin
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Well I have update to last version firmware an use the ArpLatch = Relatch.
But I have a problem ( a big problem ):
with a sound in Split mode with
* Layer a: arrpegiator latched
* Layer b: Lead sound.
Left hand play notes to chord arpeggiator, right hand lead sound.
When I play AT THE SAME TIME LEFT AND RIGHT notes , the right sound (Lead sound) is muted (no sound is produced). So make unusable so simultanean notes on left and right hand are very frequent.
I hope you get a beta to fix this, or for me this synth will be unusable (I will therefore sell it)
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Well I have update to last version firmware an use the ArpLatch = Relatch.
But I have a problem ( a big problem ):
with a sound in Split mode with
* Layer a: arrpegiator latched
* Layer b: Lead sound.
Left hand play notes to chord arpeggiator, right hand lead sound.
When I play AT THE SAME TIME LEFT AND RIGHT notes , the right sound (Lead sound) is muted (no sound is produced). So make unusable so simultanean notes on left and right hand are very frequent.
I hope you get a beta to fix this, or for me this synth will be unusable (I will therefore sell it)
I'm having the same issue. It really stinks. I love the P08, but I'm a little ticked off about having purchased one a year before they announce the REV2 and now hearing whispers about DSI no longer updating the P08. I was so happy with the beta, then discovered the muting issue. I'm also still ticked that there is no sequencer sync. It makes it nearly useless/extremely hard to do classic sequencing. I'm not the worlds best keyboard player and have neuropathy issues, so sequencer clock sync would be a godsend.
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Arpeggio ReLatch is a feature of the new Rev2. It's the small but very usable implements like this that will make some Prophets 08 owners want to purchase a Rev2. Also, maybe the team has to put more work than we think on a new stable OS for Prophet 08 (doesn't seem that easy as this beta is so buggy). Prophet 08 is a synth they are not selling anymore. In the short term, there's no return in supporting its owners with this last implement. But what about the long term? In my opinion, Dave Smith is well known for making life long instruments.
To simplify my point I will use an example. Maybe it doesn't have much to do, but it's my percepction as a user: the customer support in Apple vs. Access Virus. Both make desirable, high quality products, but whereas Apple leaves some of their products outdated, Access Virus has been implementing new OS to update their old, cornerstone, mythical gear.
That work may not have an economical return in the short term, but in the long run you get a solid reputation for product and customer support.
I really hope one last stable OS is released for the Prophet 08 ;)
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Maybe it doesn't have much to do, but it's my percepction as a user: the customer support in Apple vs. Access Virus. Both make desirable, high quality products, but whereas Apple leaves some of their products outdated, Access Virus has been implementing new OS to update their old, cornerstone, mythical gear.
That work may not have an economical return in the short term, but in the long run you get a solid reputation for product and customer support.
That's probably a not-so-good example, to be honest–in Apple's case, they offer support for "vintage" products (5 ≤ age ≤ 7) until they are deemed obsolete; in general, this is much longer than the industry average, using industry-standard processors: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624, And you can continue to run Linux, say, on Apple Macintosh (Intel) hardware long into the future, if you so desire; likewise, you can build applications to run on Apple hardware, and macOS in general, long into the future, provided that you download the appropriate version of Xcode and are not bound to obsolete system calls. (In fact, you can write cross-platform code with a fair bit of reuse fairly easily.)
In Access' case, the 56K DSP platform is application-specific and uses processor-specific assembly code, and there is no physical sound-generation hardware in the analogue domain, so you (as a user) have no options other than running Access' software, on a processor platform that is no longer being expanded by the silicon manufacturer: https://synthmorph.com/blogs/news/access-virus-future-kemper-amp-virus-ti3. So it's particularly important that Access folds back as much 563XX development (as target product allows) into the existing range of products to extend their development life as long as possible until the edge of the pier, so to speak, is reached. Once that end-of-pier is reached, there will be a platform change, a new, general-purpose but incompatible codebase, and a true EOL for all development on the Virus platform.
In DSI's case (though I certainly cannot speak for them), there's no such illusion of long-tailed development; there are technologies which are shared across the (historical) DSI hardware devices, but they only serve to drive actual physical hardware, with real filter (and oscillator) circuits, using more-modern industry-standard DSPs and microcontrollers (with a little FPGA secret sauce thrown in for good measure, awright, awright, awright).
The fact that we're seeing some bits of code re-use / feature re-implementation (as Robot Heart alluded to previously) across DSI product platforms is a really good thing (and I suspect that there's much more under the hood than we realize), as it means that the development costs (time, effort, priority) for high-value features can be re-used across the range, where applicable.
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The fact that we're seeing some bits of code re-use / feature re-implementation [...]
If I were to design a synthesizer OS I would make it a common platform in which a specific synthesizer product uses a customization of in order to allow for easier long term maintenance. As new features are developed this platform will be extended. Things like the front panel UI will be cause be very product specific whereas voice features could be a lot easier to reuse.
And who knows maybe this is how DSI are doing things in their modern products?
One should be aware though that DSI have experience in developing synthesizers whereas I do not and that things are always more complex then one would expect. But this is how I would start out complete with taking a look at the Mutable Instruments code for inspiration. And of cause such a platform design will be challenged on the longer term by things such as changes to the digital hardware.
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But this is how I would start out complete with taking a look at the Mutable Instruments code for inspiration.
Except, of course, you'll actually comment your code, right? Right?
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Except, of course, you'll actually comment your code, right? Right?
I usually do. However there are cases in forum published code where I didn't bother doing so.
Also, code becomes a lot more readable once trying to solve the same problem as the code one reads. As for coding a synthesizer OS one of the largest challenges for me would be how to handle the evaluation of modulation routings. Specifically if effort can be made have interdependent modulations be evaluated on the current step value rather than the previous one. Then comes time keeping, good sounding envelope curves, all the pleasures of hardware control and so on.
Anyway, we drifted off topic here. While I would be happy to see updates to Prophet '08 OS its not what I would expect to see these days. Unfortunately, as it would be nice to see a final release with essential bug fixes.
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Moinmoin,
at least some of us seem to be able to do hardware-oriented programming.
Could it be a solution, to give them/us the code for further maintainance?
Of course they/we would have to sign some non disclosure agreement, giving their/our money, bodies, and souls to the devil (maybe represented by DSI's lawyer), if [DSI will name it]
Also a certification of results/releases (maybe even by DSI, who in turn would possibly get "new ideas"?) should be installed in order to keep DSI/P'08 reputation high.
I do understand however, that even this may not be safe enough for DSI, if other current/future products will rely on the same code or relevant parts of it:
Folding of their company due to "uncovered secrets" or "crappy firmware reputation" will be definitely worse than any consequences of freezing P'08 software ever could be.
Nevertheless, just a few thoughts of...
...Martin
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I tried the update and seem to have a big problem. I picked up a used Prophet 08 yesterday. It worked great but it had the following firmware;
Main: 1.3
Voice: 1.2
I tried the upgrade to the latest beta versions doing the Voice firmware first. After it installed it indicated Voice version 0.0. I upgraded the main firmware to version 2.6 which seemed to work ok but the Voice version was still 0.0.
The trouble is Oscillators 1 and 2 don't sound. If I'm pressing a key for a patch that triggers a single oscillator, Colliochord (57 Bank 1) for example, it skips the first 2 oscillators and doesn't sound a note for 2 keypresses.
I then tried to go back down to Voice version 1.5 and Main version 2.3 (voice first). Again I get the 0.0 version for the Voice firmware. Even though the Main version seems to work the oscillator problem remains.
I haven't got copies of the 1.x firmware the unit came with.
As you can guess this is a huge problem. If anyone could shed some light on what I may have done wrong and how to correct it I'd really appreciate it.
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This is almost certainly not the solution, since it appears you have a software issue, but when you're having problems with the instrument, always do a filter and oscillator calibration. It's described in the back of the user's manual.
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Thanks for the reply. I agree that it's likely a software issue and I might have come as close to "brick"ing the Prophet without actually crippling the machine. I can't believe this has happened in less than 24 hours since I got it.
I don't know if there's a way to completely reset the voice firmware.
It still sounds wonderful. It just skips oscillators 1 and 2. The "version 0.0" is also pretty creepy
I will have a look at the calibration. Thanks for the tip!
If there's a way out of this quagmire please let me know.
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Wait a minute. When you say 'it skips two oscillators,' you actually mean that it skips the first two notes, right? Not to be patronizing, but make sure you're not using the Output B jacks on the back. Use only the Main outputs, unless you're going to use both pair of jacks at the same time.
Regardless, there are always solutions to these problems. If all else fails, contact DSI help next week. They do an excellent job helping their frazzled customers.
https://www.davesmithinstruments.com/support/contact-support/
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Don't sweat it. Not patronizing at all to be thorough.
I do mean Oscillators though. The LEDs indicating the oscillator in use do not light up (anymore) in the 1 or 2 position. I'm also using both A and B output jacks but the problem isn't the one you're thinking of.
It all worked perfectly up until I tried the update. The main reason I was updating was for the potentiometer fix. The option to selection the type of pot didn't even exist in the firmware I had.
I also forgot to mention; Mac High Sierra 10.13.3, Sysex Librarian 1.3.1, Roland Octa-Capture MIDI I/F (1st few tries). After that I tried with a Yamaha UX16 and a Steinberg UR22 MKII.
I'm sure there's an answer to this. I do plan to contact DSI, though, if I can't find a solution quickly.
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This beta OS causes the filters to lose tuning across the 8 voices on the top half of the keyboard (I made a post about this but it seems to have been lost) --
I make heavy use of 'playing the filter', i.e., filter=12/24, keyboard tracking=64, 4 pole mode, resonance jacked up, osc slop and detuning off.
At the high end of the keyboard ONLY, each voice from 1-8 is tuned slightly off of the previous voice. By voice 8, the tuning is off by ~40 cents.
Of course this made chords sound off on the top half of the keyboard, but it is only really obvious on the top octave, which I don't use too often, which is why it took a while for me to nail this bug. After I found it no amount of calibration would fix the issue.
When I reverted to the official final release, and then calibrated the filters / oscs, the problem when completely away.
I also subjectively get the feeling that the keyboard sounds 'fuller', perhaps because there is less detuning / phasing between the frequencies of the oscillators, but I can't be sure. The filter tuning issue was real and fixed, so I'm happy.
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Turns out I did brick the Prophet. I sent the Main and Voice boards back to DSI for service. They're on their way back now.
Just a warning to anyone planning the upgrade; Read the instructions carefully and do everything in order.... or else!
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I'd be interested to hear what are the exact benefits of that update.
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I'd be interested to hear what are the exact benefits of that update.
The easiest way to hear the filter effect is:
filter = 12
resonance = 96 ish
keytracking = 64
unison-mode = all voices (no detuning).
osc 1+2 fine = 0
slop = 0
So the tuning should be rock solid. Turn on unison mode. Play a middle C, and then the highest note on the keyboard a few times. The high note should have a chorus effect applied, but not middle C.
My other conjecture about 'less phasing' was just that ... I did not really A+B the two firmwares because I'm weary of trying my luck (sorry to hear about the above poster :( ) . However over the last year or so I've noticed some very strange variance between the voices (I've been on the beta OS for some time). Sometimes voices 3+4 just don't want to play (hard reset always fixes that). Other times it is clear that the pulse-width is changing between voices (and there is no sequencer applied), sometimes the pitch, etc. I know some variance between voices is part of the analogue charm, and in some cases it is warranted, but I do wonder whether this update introduces some variance in tuning between the voices that creates some phasing / loss of bass even when the synth is tuned to be rock steady. My hearing that the patches sounded somehow 'fuller' could have been emotional after realizing I fixed my filter tuning issue, which was real.
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I'm using a three-unit Prophet '08 system (one keyboard plus two modules) with OS Main 2.3 and Voice 1.5 in all three units. Sometimes I use them all MIDI-ed together and controlled from the one keyboard, and other times I use one of the modules for bass, controlled by a pedalboard. Since an operating system update beyond this exists, the one I'm using obviously has a few shortcomings. But I'm content with it as is, and I'm not going to even consider an update. I haven't noticed any serious problems that interfere with the way I use the instruments. There's still a touch of popping when PWM is used in mono mode, but it really is minimal compared with the original. Besides, I've come to accept it more as a characteristic than as a flaw. The whole P'08 system works beautifully and flawlessly as far as I'm concerned, and I cringe at the thought of either changing it or breaking it up.
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I'm using a three-unit Prophet '08 system (one keyboard plus two modules) with OS Main 2.3 and Voice 1.5 in all three units. Sometimes I use them all MIDI-ed together and controlled from the one keyboard, and other times I use one of the modules for bass, controlled by a pedalboard. Since an operating system update beyond this exists, the one I'm using obviously has a few shortcomings. But I'm content with it as is, and I'm not going to even consider an update. I haven't noticed any serious problems that interfere with the way I use the instruments. There's still a touch of popping when PWM is used in mono mode, but it really is minimal compared with the original. Besides, I've come to accept it more as a characteristic than as a flaw. The whole P'08 system works beautifully and flawlessly as far as I'm concerned, and I cringe at the thought of either changing it or breaking it up.
Just so I'm sure I'm clear: the filter bug was with the beta OS... to fix it, I had to downgrade to the OS you are currently using and I will stay there. I think you should stay there too given the (beautiful) demos you have posted ... there would be no benefit to you, and it might hurt your sound if you upgrade.
I only wanted the new OS for the arp relatch mode, but obviously, keeping my patches in tune is more important.
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Key word: beta. I totally agree with you. And thanks.