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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Prophet 12 => Topic started by: BobTheDog on June 26, 2016, 11:06:15 AM

Title: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: BobTheDog on June 26, 2016, 11:06:15 AM
I thought I would start a tricks and tips thread for the P12.

First of as I just found out some new info from extempo about how to do this on the module:


Shortcut for basic patch:

Keyboard: Hold latch 1 button and press hold button.

Module : Hold Display Program and press Feedback select.


Feel free to add some more tricks and tips.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Chaparral on July 11, 2016, 02:51:13 AM
Great idea 'Tricks n Tips'. Here's an FM tip - If you have made or are editing an FM voice made from sine waves, try swapping some sine waves for 'Muted' or 'Mellow'. These two wave forms are the closest of the bunch to sine waves but will add extra colour, a bit more subtlety is required for the other waveforms. For me 'Tines' is the next most useful FM modulator - after the initial hard attack it reverts to a 'close to sine' sustained shape. (When I say 'close to sine' I have not seen them on an oscilloscope, it is how they sound to me and how well they integrate with Linear FM.)
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Sarah on October 17, 2016, 12:59:09 AM
I thought I would start a tricks and tips thread for the P12.

First of as I just found out some new info from extempo about how to do this on the module:


Shortcut for basic patch:

Keyboard: Hold latch 1 button and press hold button.

Module : Hold Display Program and press Feedback select.


Feel free to add some more tricks and tips.

Aah! Thanks so much for this Bob! So pleased that I can now init patches from my module :-)

Also, do you think it might be worth linking the P12 sounds design tips thread from the old forum? there are some really great and useful tricks in that thread... just a thought!

Anyway, I'll be following this thread with interest. Thanks for starting it!
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: W07 on November 04, 2016, 05:55:53 AM
Hi folks, I’ve had a prophet 12 for half a year now, and I wanted to share my findings and experieces with it: (warning & disclaimer- i do go on a bit:) )

First off, the initial sound of a vanilla saw/square wave is not that impressive. Of course the slop & drive functions can remedy this quite a bit, but no digital osc can sound as characterfull as an old analog beastie.

So, were gonna have to use brains instead of brawn here

First off, here’s what I do to improve the overall sonic character:

1.   Very simple, drop the filter frequency to somewhere between 112 and 146.

2. I have eq dips  with narrow bandwith  at 1150kh and a smaller one at 22300kh (the aliasing spike) Allthough i can only hear them when pushing both gain levels compression and output level beyond necessity, it still makes the sound more pleasant and reduces the perception of a ‘digital sheen’.

2.   An instance of u-he satin on the input channel, doing a slight bit of warming and also reducing a britlleness in the top end

3.   i like to use a Wow filter vst plugin occasionally to limit the upper range of the spectrum even more so i can use an expression pedal on the filter without overshooting the pleasant sounding range. Also handy beacause it removes the top end aliasing and has an extra drive option. might go for a hardware alternative in the future, but 4 quality hardware filters aren't cheap)

4.   Finally i have a Strymon Bigsky Reverb unit, truly a match made in heaven with any poly pad synth. (I know this one is cheating, but it’s soooo guud)

Now the prophet 12 isn't all sweetspot like a pro6 or Ob6, but it has a lot of other distinct & unique advantages:

It is truly a synth for people who play it as an instrument:

12note polyphony and bitimbrality allows for complex chord structures even with longer release times

the large modulation matrix allows you to set up modulation routings that make it extremely expressive aftertouch to modulate almost any parameter you wish
expression pedal, modwheel and sliders to further create life
i often have these interact, eg when i move a slider, it modulates a parameter but also changes the behaviour of the aftertouch or pedal to complement the changes in sound.

all this allows for very flexible dynamic expressive living sounds or instruments to be created
--------------------

Here’s some techniques i like to use:

make a sound patch, copy it to the b part, perhaps drop it an octave, change waves, rates detunings, panning and settings slightly and then stack them

you can set the vca attack or env attack (even with delay) extremely high/slow on the B patch, causing long notes and chords to 'bloom' or grow as the second layer fades in)

slow delay envelopes increasing parameter values, especially slop and parameter spread are a sure way to make it sound more alive offcourse

another one is copy a patch to the B part ,  changing all waveformes of the A patch to sine or triangle -something with little upper harmonics- and setting a low filter frequency on B, (maybe also change settings of various parameters a tiny bit) Now sweep those filters with an expression pedal and you've got a massive opening pad sound.

aftertouch routed to slop, drive, filter or lfo frequencies, resonance etc with very small amounts (less than 12 or sometimes even just 1) uses the only real 'analog’ and living factor in the equation, your hands, to create life and true randomness. when you play a note even the most skilled player will never push every note exactly as hard every time, thus creating natural variations. once your playing gets more skilled, you can use this a s a subtle expression method as well offcourse

One thing I like to do is set up slow envelopes to push modulation amounts beyond sonic/musical ‘pleasantness’ over long time periodes, so a long note or chord has a lot of tension by the end of it’s duration

For example :
set up a patch with quite a bit of slop (ranges 3-11)
add a slow fade in envelope that increases the slop even more, to the point that long chords start to detune slightly more than is wanted or musical
!Now route the aftertouch to the slop by a negative amount, so that when you’re playing, and you hear the detuning slop becoming to great, you can restrain & counteract it by pressing harder into the keys, allowing you to harmonically accent the moments you want. This gives a result of constantly being on the edge of a slight dissonance, very characterfull and alive

Routing aftertouch to shift the pulsewidth value is also a way of creating more timbral expressiveness without doing it as blatantly overt as modulating filter frequency

The strong point of this synth is the modulation possibilities.  Having a lot of interaction, sliders affecting different parameters and also the ranges of other mod slots can create very complex sounds and textural variations to be generated on the fly.

With the feedback and FM possibilities, which I often have setup that they only become active when moving modwheel and one or two sliders you can create unique sounds that are so otherworldly apocalyptic while feeling like a classical orchestra or brass section.
Sound design-movie score wise this thing is pure bliss

I hope this is usefull and inspiring to some of you


Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: AdamPloof on November 16, 2016, 09:06:56 AM
Thanks, W07 for those tips. It was cool to hear a bunch of ideas focused on taking advantage of some of the features that are unique to the P12. There's a lot of good stuff in there including some of the tips that have to do with subtle tonal tweaks to get the top end of the spectrum sounding more warm. I really appreciate you taking the time to write these out and I'll definitely be trying out a lot of this.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: W07 on November 17, 2016, 09:07:44 AM
So i accidentally stumbled over this nice trick: i was making a brass-like patch and accidentally routed audio out to the lp frequency in the mod matrix (a positive amount of 113 in my case)
The result is a slightly darker/ warmer sound. If you go up too high on the keyboard the filter starts doing weird unmusical things, but for the low and midrange octaves it sounds really nice.
i cannot reproduce it by reducing the frequency or routing inverse note number to filter, no idea what it does exactly, but it results in a very interesting sonic change.

Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: wondrer on December 31, 2016, 02:03:42 AM
I cant believe theres only 1 page for this post. ill be adding soon... great idea to start this🙇
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: WytchCrypt on January 02, 2017, 01:19:59 PM
Began a new project with the P12 about a month ago...doing a P12 only arrangement of Vivaldi's Four Seasons.  I've done a couple of these synth-only classical arrangements before using my Korg Radias (Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition and other smaller works).  The Radias does a great job of reproducing classic Moog & ARP voices and just has that magic analog sound that you can't describe, but know when you hear it.  Decided I'd only use P12 voices on the Vivaldi project that I created myself so started to build the Moog palettes I'd work from.  I couldn't get that magic analog sound no matter what I tried so started tearing apart my Radias patches to recreate them on the P12.  No matter how close I matched the oscillator/filter/EG/VCA/effects settings, the P12 just sounded too thin and clean. 

Then I stumbled on the secret.  Unison mode with 2 voices detuned!  Once I did that I was able to create all the monstrous Moog Taurus bass pedal and MiniMoog sounds I was after  8)
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: WytchCrypt on January 21, 2017, 11:58:41 AM
I'd just posted this in another thread but thought it would be good to add it to tips and tricks  ;)

Not sure if this has been documented before because it's pretty basic so apologies if I missed it, but here's a quick way I found to make the layer crossfade happen.  In this example I'll use the mod wheel to control the cross fade, but of course any continuous controller will do.  Here's the necessary settings:

Select Stack Button

Layer A:
1: VCA ENV AMT = 0
2: VCA VEL AMT = 0
3: Mod Matrix Slot:  SRC = Mod Wheel, DEST = AMP ENV AMT, Amount = 127

Layer B:
1: VCA ENV AMT = 127
2: VCA VEL AMT = 0
3: Mod Matrix Slot:  SRC = Mod Wheel, DEST = AMP ENV AMT, Amount = -127

That's it.  Simple.  Zero position of the controller sounds layer B alone then raising the controller crossfades between them up to the 127 position of the controller sounding layer A alone  :D

I also came up with a way to use 2 CC's to crossfade OSC1<->OSC2 and OSC3<->OSC4...but...it's not TRUE 4 voice vector synthesis because there's no way to sound ONLY 1 of the 4 sound sources rather than 2.  Anyway, here's how I implemented that with a couple knobs on my controller set to CC#2 and CC#11.

1: Mod Matrix Slot:  SRC = CC#2, DEST = OSC1LVL, Amount = -127
2: OSC1LVL=127
3: Mod Matrix Slot:  SRC = CC#2, DEST = OSC2LVL, Amount = 127
4: OSC2LVL=0
5: Mod Matrix Slot:  SRC = CC#11, DEST = OSC3LVL, Amount = -127
6: OSC3LVL=127
7: Mod Matrix Slot:  SRC = CC#11, DEST = OSC4LVL, Amount = 127
8: OSC4LVL=0
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: silvain on January 29, 2017, 03:35:07 AM
Hiya, thanks for starting this Bob.
Emulating a control sequencer (no tempo sync, alas):
1. Set all LFOs to pulse 25%, the last waveform before S&H/random.
2. Set all LFOs to the same destination (e.g. LPF cutoff)
3. Set all LFOs to key trigger/key sync (no idea, tab 2 knob 3)
4. Shift the phase of LFOs 2, 3 and 4 (tab 2, knob 4), shift LFO2 to value 32, 3 to 64 and 4 to 96
5. Set different amounts for each LFO to move your parameter
5. Optionally adjust the slew to get smoother crossing between the value changes.
This can also be used to generate a sort of wave sequence, by routing all LFOs to the different OSC levels and setting the LFO amount to full.
These two techniques can be combined to generate both wave and parameter changes.
With both layers, you can use all eight LFOs, the phases need to be shifted by 16 now, so you can fit eight periodic values into the range of 0-127.
By skipping a phase or two you can insert rests in your "sequence". So set LFO1 to phase 0, 2 to 16, 3 to 64 and 4 to 96.
To get even more animation, attach the LFOs to different parameters, using the modmatrix you can add this to the original LFOs destination. For example attach LFO1 to LPF cutoff, LFO2 to HPF cutoff, LFO3 to hack,...
-----
Vector mixing: it takes three controllers, on the P12 keyboard you can use bth touch sliders and the modwheel. Example blending between all four oscillators. In the oscillator section:
OSC1 level: 127
OSC2 level: 0
OSC3 level: 0
OSC4 level: 0
In the Modmatrix:
Slot 1: touch slider 1 -> OSC1 level, amount: -127
Slot 2: touch slider 1 -> OSC2 level, amount: 127
Slot 3: touch slider 2 -> OSC3 level, amount: -127
Slot 4: touch slider 2 -> OSC4 level, amount 0
Slot 5: Modwheel -> OSC3 level: amount 127
Slot 6: Modwheel -> OSC1 level, amount -127
Slot 7: Modwheel -> modmatrix slot 2, amount -127
Slot 8: Modwheel -> modmatrix slot 4, amount 127
Now you can use slider 1 to blend/fade between Osc1 and Osc2 and then use the modwheel to go over to OSC3 and blend with touch slider 2 between Osc3 and OSc4 and then use the modwheel again to go back to Osc1. With the sliders on latch you can go back to the last position of your OSC1,2 and OSC3,4 blend. Complicated, but it works.
-------
Polyphonic sequences: Olnly two, different harmonies
This requires the new OS version, that have the sequencer mode for the apeggiator.
Basic patch:
In the mod matrix assign osc2 pitch to velocity, find a good amount for full velocity (one octave, a fifth,...
Activate the sequencer
For each step choose velocity values of either 0 or 127
With  more fiddling you could have even more harmonies, by experimenting with velocity values to get different "musical" intervals.
In one patch I left OSC1 at standard pitch, put OSC2 a fifth above and OSC3 a minor third above OSC1.
I assigned pitch of OSC3 to velocity, set the amount so that OSC3 would be a half step higher at velocity 127. In my sequence I could now play major and minor chords.
I suppose that, with more fiddling, this can be combined with the LFO sequencing technique above to give much more animation. The real fiddly bit here is to sync the LFOs in absolute time to the tempo based settings of the sequencer.
-----------
More brittle FM sounds: compared to the DX7 or other FM/PM or general virtual analogue synths, the modulation amount of the P12's envelopes and LFOs is very soft. Through the modmatrix you can increase that amount a bit. Example using env3:
1. Choose linear FM for OSC1, tab 4, knob 4
2. Set env3 destination to OSC1 FM
3. In the modmatrix assign env3 to OSC1 FM again
That way, you can increase the total modulation amount to 255, instead of 127. Combined with different waveforms - as suggested earlier in this thread - you can get very brittle, metallic tones.
-------------
Creating "fatter" patches with two layers:
There are multiple ways, all start with layer A and layer B being exactly the same. When editing from scratch, press and hold the layer A/B button, until it blinks (two or three seconds is enough).
After having create the basic sound, you can adjust the following parameters to great avail:
1. You can detune the layers slightly
2. Choose different slop amount fo the oscillators
3. Turn on portamento and choose different portamento times
4. Set one lowpass filter to 2-poe and the other to 4-pole
5. In the modmatrix assign DC (the panultimate source) to pan (pressing mod dest button and turning the voice spread results in fixed pan for me), then turn the amount to -127 on one layer and 127 on the other
6. You can slightly vary parameters of your choice, especially in combination with the pan spread.
-------------
Chors/phaser: ONe example using LFO1 and delay1
1. Assign LFO1 to delay1 time
2. Turn up the LFO amount slightly
3. Turn to the delay1 time, not to 0, since you'll hear your chorus stagnate other wise.
4. Turn down LFO1 rate
By raising the delay1 feedback and slowing down the LFO1 rate even further, you get a nice phaser sound. Caution: be careful with your overall volume and the delay1 feedback amount!
-----------------
Having adjustable flanger: A variation on the "fatter patches" technique.
1. Edit both layers simultaneously or copy a created layer A to layer B.
2. On layer B assigned one LFO to LPF cutoff and (optionally) the same LFO to HPF cutoff.
3. Fine tune the amounts, so you get a nice flanger like sound.
4. Now you can use the modwheel Layer crossfade technique to increase the amount of flanger you will hear:
In layer A:
1. assign modwheel to VCA amount, set the modulation amount to 127
In layer B:
2. Assign the modwheel to VCA amount, set the modulation amount to -127
3. Set the VCA amount to 0.
You can vary the exact amounts, depending on the effect you want. i.e. setting the static volume (CCA amount) of layer B slightly higher than 0, will always give you a bit of flanger. Now setting the mod8ulation amounts to 127 and -127 respectively will allow you to always hear a varying blend of the dry sound and the wet sound.
----------------
Hope that helps, enjoy your sound design and playing. Thanks for all the other tips here!

Best wishes, Ffanci
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: silvain on January 29, 2017, 05:31:23 AM
Hi again,
Adding bass to your patch
Big unison
Approximating a reverb
Extra oscillator
Bandstop filter/bandreject filter
Formant filter
Extended additive synthesis
Karpus-Strong (only partial)
---------------------
Adding bass to your patch
1. Adjust the highpassfilter to track the keyboard
2. Raise the resonance of the LPF
(note: if you're doing it by ear, first raise the cutoff and then set the tracking amount, you'll hear the bass frequency of a played note a little louder)
If your patch's basic pitch is left at standard, then you should now have quite a bit more bass to your sound. the oscillator(s) will sound thicker, more Moog'ish. If your patch is tuned higher than the default values, you can raise the static cutoff of the highpassfilter.
This will work across the keyboard, opposed the the girth, which sounds like a static EQ.
---------------
Big unison
1. Set all four oscillators to the same waveform
2. Slightly detune them or use the slop parameter
3. Optionally add the sub oscillator
4. Add very short delays
5. Optionally spread the delays in the panorama (Delay tab 2, knob 3)
6. Turn monophonic mode
7. Set unison to use al 12 voices
8. Adjust the unison detune parameter
9. Optionally turn up the voice spread to full, to get a very wide sound.
If you use both layers, you can tune two oscillators at the same pitch and experiment with amp.mod., example:
1. set OSC1 and OSC2 to the same waveform at the same pitch
2. turn up the amp.mod parameter of osc 1.
3. You can try a very tiny amount of finetune adjustment on OSC2
---------------------
Approximating a reverb
You can use the delay lines. Using two can start sounding like a passable reverb.
Set the delay times to short times, so you can just about hear the delay effect.
Set different delay times for your delays.
Adjust the feedback parameter to give more "wetness" to the reverb, longer reverberation time.
Adjust the delay filter. In lowpass mode you'll achieve damping, in highpass mode, you'll achieve a lowcut,m so the reverb won't be so overly boomey.
Experiment with delay panning to lend some more width to your sound.
With three delays, you can try to leave the first delay at centre and pan the next two delays off to the sides.
------------
Extra oscillator
You can use the lowpass filter as an additional oscillator:
Set filter keytracking to 100% (by ear: turn off all oscillators, turn up the resonance to maximum, adjust the keytrack amount)
On its own not very useful, but you can use it for a sort of tuned noise. For tuned noise also try adjusting the highpass filter to track perfectly.
-----------------
Bandstop filter/bandreject filter
Using two layers you can create a bandstop or bandreject filter
1. Edit both layers simultaneously or copy an already existing layer A to layer B.
2. Now adjust the lowpass filter of layer A to your desire.
3. Set up the highpassfilter to the upper side of your bandstop filter.
4. Go to layer B and adjust the lowpassfilter to the lower side of your bandstop filter.
5. For a tracking bandstop filter, set the keytracking of the LPF on layer B to 100% and on layer A adjust the highpass filter to track 100%.
----------------------
Formant filter
A format classically consists of five resonant peaks, i.e. resonators or resonating filters. We have four resonating filters with two layers, both lowpass and highpass filters.
1. Edit both layers simultaneously or copy an existing layer A to layer B.
2. Raise the resonance to audible effects on all filters.
3. Adjust the keytracking of all filters to 100%, to follow the keyboard consistent with the oscillator pitch.
4. Now chnage the cutoff frequencies of all your filters to approximate the formant you like.
5. Reading classic formant frequencies they don't just change linearly with pitch. A soprano vowel 'a' is different from a tenor vowel 'a'. So you might adjust the filter keytracking to a little more or less than 100%. If you search for csound canonical manual and look at the appendix you'll find a list of formant frequencies.
6. It is possible to add the fifth "resonating" frequency, by using one oscillator, set to a sine wave and adjust to the correct pitch. Be careful with the volume!
--------------------
Extended additive synthesis
Additive synthesis classically used stacked sine oscillators at different pitches. For a very musical effect oscillators were pitched in integral intervals. So the second oscillator is one octave higher than the first, the third oscillator is a PERFECT fifth above the second and so on. Try looking up harmonic series. I believe there are tables for tuning a normal synth (like the P12) to get the oscillators in perfect ratios. It's normally connected with FM/PM synthesis.
So the prophet has four oscillators per layer, with two layers eight oscillators. There is also the sub oscillator. Since the octave will appear several times, careful tuning can give you ten oscillators with two layers. Adding the resonating lowpass filter as the highest "oscillator" or partial in a layer, you get twelve oscillators.
Using the filter envelope and envelopes 3 and 4, you have three envelopes per layer to shape the volume of different oscillators.
The volume of the filter can - sort of - be shaped by routing an envelope to the resonance.
Further you can use the waveshaping of the oscillators. One side of the sine wave shaping adds an extra sinewave one octave above.
You can cheat a little, by trying amp.mod. on oscillators, possibly in connection with assigning an envelope or an LFO to the amp.mod amount. With pure sine waves, only additional sinewaves will be added. I think the formula was: frequency 1 plus frequency 2 and frequency 1 minus frequency 2.
Using this "classic" approach to additive synthesis you can approximate the normal waveshapes, like sawtooth, triangle and square, but also other shapes, by omitting parts of the series. For a sawtooth add every "partial", so bass note, one octave above, an octave and a fith above, two octaves above,... Adjust the volume of each oscillator to get there. By raising one oscillators volume in particular or lowering one osc level in particular, you can give a certain "character" to your new waveform.
By choosing inharmonic ratios, you can create very interesting/experimental spectra.
----------------
Karpus-Strong (only partial)
Karpus-Strong synthesis is used to emulate picked or hammered string instruments. I tried and was able to approximate the effect. The basics:
1. An impuse is triggered, a very short burst of white noise will do.
2. The impulse is passed through a short delay with more or less feedback.
The delay should track "musically" across the keyboard. This is the limitation I hit: the delay time can't be tracked to achieve a western equal tempered scale.
But:
1. set up one oscillator as a noise source.
2. The the VCA sustain to 0.
3. Set the VCA decay to a short of very short value
4. Set one delay to a very short delay time
5. Raise the delay feedback a good measure
6. In the mod matrix assign notenumber to delay time
7. Try to adjust the delay time so that it tracks the keyboard (as best you can)
You can also use this technique to achieve a combfilter effect. Lower the delay feedback. With white noise you can get interesting sounds.
Also try changing the delay lowpassfilter (delay tab 2, knob 1)
Also experiment with the normal highpass filter, tracking its cutoff frequency across the keyboard.
-----------------
Enjoy! <3

Best wishes, Ffanci
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: WytchCrypt on January 29, 2017, 11:50:49 AM
Wow!  Thanks for posting all these tips & tricks Ffanci, so many new things to experiment with  8)
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: BobTheDog on January 29, 2017, 01:15:16 PM
Nice stuff Ffanci, thanks very much.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: AdamPloof on January 31, 2017, 10:46:45 AM
Definitely looking forward to trying some of this out today :)
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: tumble2k on February 02, 2017, 01:44:00 PM
Ffanci, I've been thinking that the P12 should be capable of doing additive synthesis, reverb, and formant filters. I'm glad to see that they are actually possible. Thanks for the writeup!
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: silvain on February 03, 2017, 12:16:39 AM
Hey there,
I think this is the last batch of things. I've collected them, but now nothing else springs to mind. I hope some of them are helpful to someone.

Duophonic sounds
Changing the envelope characteristics
Snappy envelopes with continued normal decay
Reverbation using the VDA
Changing the assingment of a controller
Natural ensemble
Creating your own slop parameter
Some tips for no-eyes editing
----------------
Duophonic sounds
Using both layers
1. Set both layers to monophinic
2. Change layer A note priority to lowest note
3. Change layer B note priority to highest note
4. For an even truer emulation of old duophinic synth using the none retriggering note priority modes and start by editing the layers simultaneously or copying an existing layer A to a layer B, so you have the same envelopes and filter settings
------------------------
Changing the envelope characteristics
Example using env3 decay
In the modmatrix assign env3 decay to env3 decay
By turning the amount to negative values the decay becomes longer, by turning the amount to positive values the decay becomes shorter. But also the curve changes. Positive amounts create a snappier curve, negative amounts start the curve slowly and then finish with a short drastic change.
-------------------------------
Snappy envelopes with continued normal decay
Another technique to get a very snappy start, especially useful for lowpass filter cutoff.
1. Use the dedicated filter envelope to create the basic shape that you need.
2. Assign env3 or env4 to the LPF cutoff frequency and set the decay to a very short amount. Set sustain to zero and release to a long value.
The short env3 or env4 decay will create a short bright snappy burst, before the normal filter envelope takes over. Good for crisp basses and kick drums.
------------------------------
Reverbation using the VDA
It's a variation on the technique above
1. In the modmatrix assign VCA release to VCA release\
2. Experiemtn with negative modulation amount and different VCA release values
This technique will "eat voices" if you want the "reverb" to finishy, but it sounds very smooth and especially nice with string patches.
------------------------------
Changing the assingment of a controller
This is a version of controller sidechaning. Example: Changing the aftertouch from effecting filter cutoff to vibrato.
Preparation:
1. Assign LFO1 to all OSC frequency (fifth destination)
2. In the modmatrix assign Aftertouch to LPF cutoff and turn up the modulation amount to your liking.
3. In the modmatrix assign aftertouch to LFO1 amount, but leave the modulation amount at 0.
The trick:
4. In the modmatrix assign the modwheel to modmatrix slot 1 (aftertouch -> LPF cutoff) and set the amount, so that you hear no filter change, when the modwhell is turned up. If you had set the modulation amount to 127, now set this modulation amount to -127
5. In the modmatrix assign Modwhell to slot 2 (aftertouch -> LFO1) and set the modulation amount to the desired value. Turn up the modwhell and press hard on a key to hear how much vibrato full aftertouch will give you
Interesting applications: use the modwhell to change the aftertouch from activating one LFO to a different LFO. This can be used to "wobble" the highpass or lowpass filter.
Or you can setup to tempo sync'ed LFOs, assigned to the same parameter and switch between those. This is helpful, because tempo sync'ed LFOs don't allow rate changes through modulation.
---------------------------
Natural ensemble
These techniques is useful, when imitating acoustic ensembles, like a string section. There are several obvious and less obvious methods to enhance the natural feel.
Randomising pitch: you can use oscillator slop - in small amounts or static oscillator detune. You can also use the random modulation source applied to all oscillator pitches (destination 5) with minimal amount to give a more natural/alive feeling to your patch.
Tone variations: you can of course use minimal amounts of LFO on waveshape or assign the random modulation source to the waveshape parameter of one or more oscillators. To give an even more random feel, apply different amounts of random to the waveshape. Take care to make it small amounts again.
Sloppy playing: use the axuiliary envelopes (env3 and env4) applied to oscillator levels and setup a small amount of delay (tab 3, knob 1). So you could use env3 to control the level of osc3 and env4 to control the level of osc4.
Increasing the "size" of the ensemble: apply short amounts of delay. Start with two delays, one panned right, the other left. Again feel free to experiment with small randomisation or periodic changes to delay times. With an LFO controlling the delay time this will give a bit of chorus.
If all four oscillators are necessary to create a certain basic characteristic, you can try to use the amp.mod. of the oscillators. If they are tune harmoneously, then the amp.mod can act almost as another oscillator.
When using both layer A and B for your patch in stacked mode, then you can also adjust the delay parameter of the VCA on one layer and different delays again on env3 and env4.
If you don't need the filter, the VCF envelope can also be used to control a third oscillator or other parameter, again with the possibility of using the delay parameter.
Slightly vary the release time of all envelopes. Make sure that the VCA envelope has the longest of all release times.
If your patch uses vibrato, you can also slightly randomise the vibrato depth of each oscillator, by applying the LFO only to one oscillator pitch and assigning the LFO to the other pitches through the mod matrix with different amounts, or use more than one LFO to control the pitches of the oscillators, slightly changing the LFO rates.
-----------------------------
Creating your own slop parameter
Some people aren't satisfied with the slop parameter on certain synths. If you don't like the P12's slop, here's a suggestion
1. assign LFO1 to OSC1 pitch.
2. Turn down LFO1 rate.
3. Assign LFO2 to modulate LFO1 rate.
4. Experiment with LFO1 and LFO2 waveshapes. For the more discontinuous waveshapes like the pulse waves or S&H, try experimenting with the slew parameter (tab 2, knob 2)
---------------------------
Some tips for no-eyes editing
On the Prophet 12 keyboard there are some very nice features for editing without looking. This might not only be helpful for blind and visually impaired users.
Modulation assignments: You can quickly assign LFOs and envelopes 3 and 4, by pressing the respective LFO or envelope button and then turning the knob of the parameter you want to assign.
This does not work for every parameter. But you can get near them.
Delay pan: assign to delay feedback of the desired delay and then turn the destiation knob four times.
Pan: assign to the voice spread knob (on OS 1.2.26 this assigns to pan directly).
Voice spread: assign to the voice spread knob and turn the destination knob once
The modmatrix:
assign source velocity to something: press the mod source button and then hit a key. The first time you do this on a patch it chooses velocity.
Assigning source aftertouch: The easiest and reliable way is pressing mod source button and then turning the modwheel, then turn the mod source knob (soft knob 2) five times.
Alternatively, if you have already assigned velocity once, press and holding mod source and then hitting a key, automatically chooses the aftertou7ch source (OS 1.2.26).
Assigning the sliders: sometimes pressing and holding mod source and softly touching a slider doesn't work properly. Either the modulation source slider pressure is chosen or it does not work at all. But you can press mod source and move the modwheel. By turning the mod source knob you can then choose
1. one step further: slider 1 y-axis (up-down)
2. two steps from modwheel: slider2 y-axis (up-down)
3. three steps from modwheel: slider1 pressure
4. four steps from modwheel: slider2 pressure
Another few sources can easily be reached from the back of the list. The back of the modulation source list reads like that:
last one audio out
panultimate random
before that DC offset (static)
before that notenumber
before that velocity
You can also assign an expression pedal by pressing and holding the mod source button and moving the expression pedal.
Assigning multiple destinations to one source: Since operating system version 1.1 or there abouts, it is no longer directly possible to assign multiple destinations to one source by:
1. pressing and holding the mod source button
2. moving/touching the desired source
But you can work around this:
1. press and hold the mod source button
2. Move a source, which you haven't assigned yet (I usually take the pitchbend wheel, since I so rarely use it)
3. Then while still holding the mod source button, touch the desired source.
Editing multiple parameters simultaneously (slightly borken in my OS, possibly fixed in the current OS)
For the oscillators, LFOs, aux envelopes (env3 and env4) and the delays, you can edit multiple parameters at once. Example: chaing the oscillator level of all oscillators to the same value:
1. Press and hold one of the oscillator buttons (two or three seconds will do it) all buttons will light up
2. Now turn the oscillator level knob. The value will change for all oscillators.
It's the same mechanism for all of them. Press and hold one "selector button" and then turn the nob you want to adjust.
Caveat: it never worked for oscillator waveshape
Make sure to reach the right soft tab. Especially when editing the modmatrix or the mono/poly settings.
mono/polyphonic tab:
1. press and hold the show button
2. press and mono button
The parameters are: number of stacked voices, unison detune and note priority
Adjusting the pitchbend:
1. press and hold the show button
2. Move the pitchbend wheel
In the display you first have pitchbend up (set to 7 semitones) and then pitchbend down (also set to 7 semitones).
The modmatrix:
1. press and hold the show button
2. turn the mod.amount knob or press one of the mod source or mod dest buttons
in the display:
knob 1 chooses the mod slot, knob 2 chooses the source, knob 3 sets the modulation amount and knob four chooses the mod destination
I believe mod slots are no longer sorted chronologically, by the times you assigned them, but by the modulation source. At least that happens, once you saved the patch.
While editing without looking: pay extra attentation not to press keys on the number pad, especially when trying to press the write button. It happened to me once or twice and I was VERY sorry. :(

Best wishes, Ffanci
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: WytchCrypt on February 06, 2017, 01:01:53 PM
Thanks for more cool ideas to try Ffanci  8)
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: AdamPloof on February 06, 2017, 05:00:56 PM
Wow. Thanks again for taking the time to write this all out. I'm inspired to get behind my P12 and explore some new sonic territory with it.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: joerg721 on February 22, 2017, 02:31:28 AM
Guys, this is great!
Now I only need time to try everything...
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: W07 on March 20, 2017, 03:50:20 PM
hi folks, i've been messing around a lot with the P12 lately, and i must say it's great. once you understand it's sensitivities and weak spots, and how to avoid them, it can sound utterly amazing, warm and lush. I was checking out ob6 and P6 demos on youtube just now, and the sounds i've been making can stand up easily. The only area's where it is a bit weaker are bass (though i hardly use it for this purpose) and presence.

here's some stuff i use on almost every patch ( some of these might have been mentioned before)

use velocity to modulate the filter envelope attack, this gives very expressive sounds. sometimes i like to make soft dark notes fade in slow and loud bright notes be almost instant in attack,
but the effect of doing the opposite can be nice as well, giving those dark notes a bit more presence and making bright loud notes less harsh

slow envelopes to pan spread and or slop give life and depth to sustained notes

using audio out to modulate slop or filter cutoff! also negatively

random as a modulation source gives each successive note a different caracter and can add a lot of color

use note number to modulate the cutoff inversely to tame the harshness of the p12 while keeping the  low notes bright

the drive turns the sound brittle quite fast, so use an envelope to create a dip in the beginning of a note or towards the end to make sounds that have more presence but not the drive dirt.

very often the delay section is the culprit to giving a buzzy sound or ugly fizz on top. use each delays lowpass filter to clean the top end.

slow modulation of the saw osc shape via envelope or lfo by tiny amounts, value 1 to 5 max will give the harmonics of a note a more organic quality, a bit like the resonances in a piano string.

osc levels have a big impact on the sound and other parameters, once you have a sound you like, try increasing or decreasing the overall osc volume  by a big value (so they are all below eg 58 or above 98)

also if you have different types of osc, octave ranges or the subosc, make sure they are not the exact same numerical value. even having the higher octave oscs or the subosc 1 volume value lower will make for a much less static sound. it's probably due to their digital nature.

aftertouch modulating values by a small amount, eg chorus/flang/delay level
or freq, shape, slop rez cutof and lfo rates and amounts will give each note a little bit of unique character when you are playing.

make a stacked patch of very similar sounds (eg a pad layering) disable the pitchbend on one and set the other one's range to 5 or 7 semitones

IVGI by klanghelm is a brilliant free plugin i use to warm & tame the P12,
it simulates tape saturation dynamics and drive and does it really good in a subtle transparant way, you'd think it's hardly doing anything until you turn it off. You can download it from their website
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: WytchCrypt on March 21, 2017, 09:04:28 AM

make a stacked patch of very similar sounds (eg a pad layering) disable the pitchbend on one and set the other one's range to 5 or 7 semitones


Good tips all  8) 

A similar thing to your above idea I like to do...with 4 oscillator sounds (or a stacked voice 8 oscillator patch) I like to set the glide value different for each oscillator, set unison and play very widely separated notes.  The pitch swoops all arrive at the new note at different times for a cool effect.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: W07 on May 06, 2017, 04:26:11 AM
For a moment i thought i'd reached the maximum of what i could do and understand about the P12, but the last few days i've been discovering so many new tricks...this machine is truly very deep.

One of the nicest tricks i discovered recently is stretch detuning. Just turn on 2 oscillators and set up a mod from note played to osc 2 pitch by a value of +-1.
This gives a really nice harmonic detuning.

Another one is setting up a mod slot of a slow looping envelope going to osc pitch by a value of +-1 and then modulating this mod slot with aftertouch, pitchbend or modwheel by a mirror value of -+1 or 2.
You can do this with another oscillator in the opposite direction to for an even more pronounced effect

Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: sapristico on July 04, 2017, 02:25:38 AM
Hi, I'm back again, and against the tricky registration... :o

GREAT for Silvain as usual, and in the old forum's original post...(just in case someone wants to get those ones before)
http://dsiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5945&hilit=sounds+design+tips

I have those tricks printed and used them widely.
I'm anxious now to start to test aaaaaall of these ones!!

Let's play!
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: dmodhotr on September 10, 2017, 05:19:30 PM
I am curious to know how Propheteers are using the 4 LFOs on the Pro 12.  I've never had so many LFO's on a synth before.  I don't know what to do with them all.   :o  It did occur to me to modulate various things on each of the four oscillators independently.  Any tips on how to more fully utilize the LFOs would be appreciated. 
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Grimulkan on September 10, 2017, 07:00:34 PM
I actually find myself running out of LFOs, believe it or not.
Most common use for me is multi-osc PWM and super-saw patches (modulating saw waveshape and/or pitch), separately for each oscillator.
Another common use is to modulate separate delay line times to produce a lush chorus effect.
Square wave & beat-synced LFOs modulating pitch are neat for some modular-style melodic sequencing. You can produce some pretty complex sequences by adding multiple square oscillators of different periods and amplitudes.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Grimulkan on September 10, 2017, 07:12:21 PM
I see there are P12 tips mentioned in the giant GS P12 thread (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/805970-dsi-prophet-12-a.html) that are not mentioned here. FWIW I'm re-posting some tips I posted there a while ago.
Quote
Here are more tips. I have to warn that I may not use the P12 like a bread-and-butter analog synth.
  • Crunch! Variable sample rate! Set Decimate to max, then create a DC modulation to add another 50 to Decimate. Then set two "note" modulations to Decimate, both at -127. Not a PPG, Modal 002 or a Prophet VS, but if those three formed 3 corners of a square, this trick might put the P12 on the fourth. This exploits the per voice sample rate reduction that the P12 offers. Try the non-standard waveforms and lower octaves, or lower+higher notes at the same time.

    The reason for multiple modulations to Decimate is to change the modulation keytrack curve shape. You want it to kick in for lower octave crunch, but disappear as much as possible, and as quickly as possible, to avoid higher octave aliasing. You only get to build "straight lines" in the mod matrix, so the multiple mod routings gets the shape to look as close to what you'd like. This is not "real" continuously variable sampling (with separate clocks for different voices), but it emulates it.

  • Negative ketracking for osc levels with positive keytracking for drive level at the same time. Or vice-versa. Adds tonal variation while keeping the volume constant. Works well with the previous bullet. You can use any other mod source instead of key tracking of course.

  • Aftertouch to tuned feedback amount, set so that you just about get to breaking point with max pressure.

  • The 4 oscs can be manipulated by different envelopes for time-based partials in additive synthesis. You can set the amp env amount to zero here, and control the amplitude levels pre-filter by modulating individual osc levels with envelopes.

    Egs., keep one sine osc pitched very high, but keep the level zero and slowly bring it in with an envelope. This will add some high pitched "ring" to pluck/strike patches, where the other 3 oscs build the "body" of the patch (with a different short-attack envelope modulating their levels).

  • DC and/or slow LFO modulation of VCA in mod matrix (with some non-zero filter cutoff). This is different from the VCA envelope - rather it is direct control of the VCA. Small non-zero values add a hazy "background" of 12 voices, and as you play notes those voices are lifted out into clarity by the filter/amp envelope, and then recede back into the background chorus when released. Gorgeous.

  • Karplus Strong synthesis. Start with a noise-only osc and short envelope to create the "excitation burst". The easy way for KS is to use the "tuned feedback" section with maxed out feedback. The delay time is already "tuned", so you can track the tuning to the keyboard.

    The hard way is to skip the tuned feedback section, and use a delay line. Again, max feedback, and vary the delay time to change the pitch. I find this to be a lot better sounding than the tuned feedback method. Sadly, there is not enough resolution in the delay time (7-bit MIDI grrr) to fully track all useful semitones. You can get partway there by inverse keytracking delay time in the mod matrix, or modulating delay time with 14-bit pitchbend and controlling bitchbend from your DAW to step in semi-tone intervals.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: silvain on September 11, 2017, 11:54:36 AM
Hey hey, this is about using four LFOs.
* controller side-chaining: use one LFO to modulate another LFOs speed. Applied with care, you add some randomness and "analogue" feel.
* Sequencing was mentioned, set the LFOs to sqaure wave and the same tempo, manually set the phase, so they span a full cycle and apply the LFOs to all four oscillators in turn with different amounts. You get a sort of sequence.
* Two LFOs with slightly different speed (and optionally different amount) on two delays (best stereo panned) can really do a wonderful chorus.
* The dubstep warbles and wobbles: tempo sync your LFOs, but set them to different divisions of the clock. Tip: make at least one of them a tripplet feel. Allow to change the amount by aftertouch or expression pedeal, modwheel or the touch sliders... You get some expressive dubstep=like performance sound.
* Bouncing ball effect: apply one LFO (slow saw tooth/ramp up) to another LFO's (square wave) speed. Apply that modulated sqaure wave LFO to some sort of volume and you get a sort of "bouncing ball" effect.
* should you run out of LFOs with all the fun: you can always loop the envelopes or try to apply LFOs with different amounts to other things through the mod matrix.
Happy oscillating, Ffanci
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: dmodhotr on September 16, 2017, 08:49:01 AM
These are great tips, I love them.  Thanks all!
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: MichaelRopp on November 26, 2017, 06:43:29 PM
Thanks so much for this thread!  Please keep the education coming.  Very helpful.  I'd be particularly interested in anyone's suggestions for how to get a good tiney EP out of the P12.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: dreamsynthesist on January 04, 2018, 04:52:06 PM
Stack two similar unison patches, and set one layer to prioritize the highest note while the other prioritizes the lowest. Paraphonic unison synth. Awesome!
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: ISH on January 16, 2018, 08:49:22 AM
Stack two similar unison patches, and set one layer to prioritize the highest note while the other prioritizes the lowest. Paraphonic unison synth. Awesome!

Fantastic trick!
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: silvain on January 31, 2018, 12:41:18 PM
Formant-shifting digital waves (sort of)
It's not exactly a formant shift, but close enough. It works best on digital waves with an almost vowel like sound, there are a couple, just experiment.
Recipe:
1. set OSC1 and OSC2 to trigger mode (no free running, second display tab 3rd or 4th knob to on)
2. set OSC2 wave to triangle
3. turn on OSC1 sync
4. turn up OSC1 AM (amp.mod.)
5. turn down volume of OSC1 and OSC2
6. now sweep the pitch of OSC1, by hand, controller or LFO or envelop
The AM is there to smooth the waveform a little bit. I took this recipe from Carbon111's Microwave page. The AM is sort of a windowing function, that lowers the volume right at the abrupt phase change. You can also try the square, but it's not as good.
Good luck and have fun!
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Soundquest on February 16, 2018, 10:48:34 AM
Not a trick, but certainly a tip.  I was uploading the alternate tunings yesterday and didn't follow the MidiOx procedure exactly like described in the directions.   The upload failed and my P12 became a one voice instrument stuck on one patch. :'(.  Scarry stuff, and no, I had not previously saved my user patches >:(.

In a state of anxiety I shut everything down and started again- reattempting the upload but making sure I sent the sysex file exactly as described.   It worked and my patches were still there too. :)

Point is,  I've done quite a few updates over the years and never had a scare. It can make one complaicent.  But the one time I took a short-cut and things went awry, I realized I could have lost my patches, not to mention the instrument itself. 
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: dreamsynthesist on June 01, 2018, 09:08:10 AM
Use the random source found in the mod-matrix to modulate the frequency of an LFO modulationg for example cutoff.

Now you have the modulation at different speeds per voice.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: SandyS1 on June 29, 2018, 11:20:38 AM
One trick I use to get the basic (saw, pulse, triangle) waves to sound a bit more "analog" is to set oscillator 1 to the desired wave shape, set oscillator 2 to the same wave shape but zero output, and then turn the amplitude modulation on oscillator 1 to maximum. The result is a slightly buzzier, sweeter sounding wave shape. It does mean to do a two-oscillator detuned sound, you'll need all four oscillators. Simply do the same trick on oscillators 3 and 4. Just remember to detune both oscillator 3 and 4 the same amount, even though oscillator 4 won't be sounding. A little slop will go a long way in this setup.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: DavidDever on July 26, 2018, 10:49:51 AM
One trick I use to get the basic (saw, pulse, triangle) waves to sound a bit more "analog" is to set oscillator 1 to the desired wave shape, set oscillator 2 to the same wave shape but zero output, and then turn the amplitude modulation on oscillator 1 to maximum. The result is a slightly buzzier, sweeter sounding wave shape. It does mean to do a two-oscillator detuned sound, you'll need all four oscillators. Simply do the same trick on oscillators 3 and 4. Just remember to detune both oscillator 3 and 4 the same amount, even though oscillator 4 won't be sounding. A little slop will go a long way in this setup.

Yep, this works quite well.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Tarjeijazz on July 29, 2018, 11:01:12 AM
A nice trick when you use 2 stacked layers is to have different ranges for the pitch wheel. So when you turn it the sound goes "out" but when you release it the sound comes neatly back into place.

Btw, lets get posting on this thread, its so nice to share experiences with other p12 lovers <3
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Sarah on August 13, 2018, 05:55:19 AM
A nice simple one.. audio rate modulation of the filter frequency. It gives a lovely fuzzy layer on top of your patch - BOC style. Method:

Saw wave for OSC 1
Set up a modulation in matrix - OSC 1 to filter frequency (amount between 30 and 60 works well)

Works best (IMO) with sounds with a relatively long release.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: shimoyjk on October 17, 2018, 07:18:14 PM
In case, I gathered some tips from old forum. (there might be some overlap information but anyway I'll upload it as a txt file.)

If I find interesting stuff from old forum I'll keep it update.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: SandyS1 on October 18, 2018, 10:26:54 AM
In case, I gathered some tips from old forum. (there might be some overlap information but anyway I'll upload it as a txt file.)

If I find interesting stuff from old forum I'll keep it update.
Thanks! There are some gems in here.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: standingwave on January 27, 2019, 09:32:20 AM
I'm no expert, but I'll try and share what I have learned over the last couple years with the prophet 12.
 Cheers!
https://youtu.be/K7hp9Ut9nQs (https://youtu.be/K7hp9Ut9nQs)

 
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Processaurus on February 10, 2019, 10:15:50 PM
I'm no expert, but I'll try and share what I have learned over the last couple years with the prophet 12.
 Cheers!

Great video! I like that the focus is on, now that you bought the thing, how do you make musical sound with it? Nice to hear the sound as you work on it.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: SandyS1 on February 11, 2019, 06:42:51 AM
I'm no expert, but I'll try and share what I have learned over the last couple years with the prophet 12.
 Cheers!

Agreed, I subscribed after the first of these and they have given me some useful stuff. I definitely need to think more about gain staging.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: JamesT on June 29, 2019, 10:11:58 AM
Does anyone know how to get the Prophet 12 (or the Pro 2 for that matter) to power up with a specific patch?  The power-on patch seems to change from time to time, but I'm super perplexed on how to control that behavior, or if it's even possible!
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: martin3 on June 29, 2019, 05:38:31 PM
Does anyone know how to get the Prophet 12 (or the Pro 2 for that matter) to power up with a specific patch?  The power-on patch seems to change from time to time, but I'm super perplexed on how to control that behavior, or if it's even possible!

Hi, hit Global 2 times to "remember" it.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: mrj1nx on July 06, 2019, 05:24:19 AM
Here's a couple of tips I've found so far after spending ~1 week with the machine. Forgive me if some of these may be duplicates from earlier posts.

If you want to assign more than one mod slots from the same source, like the modwheel, the "Assign Mod Source" button wont let you assign the same source (to avoid creating duplicates I assume) a quick trick is to hold "Assign Mod Source" and press a key right next to the modwheel and then touch the modwheel, that way the slot will first be assigned to velocity and then directly to modwheel.

Even though there's tons of arguments online about how the Prophet 12 doesn't sound like the P5 or P6 etc, it sounds close enough that it's quite easy to replicate patches across and get pretty close. I've taken some of my Repro 5 presets and ported them over to the P12 with relative ease.

Something I've missed until recently is to do filter movement with zero resonance, just something to not forget as an option, I've always dialed in resonance without thinking about it in the past. This turned out for me to be the door to get the "Roland" sound.

Kind of a tangent, but if you've ever used the plugin Soothe for sound design, you may have noticed that the sound it creates is similar to brining the resonance down to zero, and then even adding in a bit of noise. I use this to get close to that sound without using the plugin.

This is an easy +1 on the previous points. On existing patches, try turning Resonance down to zero and you may discover a new sound/variation from the same patch "for free".

Looking at the waveform through an oscillioscope gives lots of ideas on new creative directions for sound design. For example seeing what happens with the waveform when engaging the character section.

Richer base OSC sound: Activate Osc 1 and 2 with the same waveform and dial in a small amount of fine tune on one of them, even +1 is enough to get phasing and pulse width effects going due to phase cancellation between the waves. Also works with different waveforms.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: JamesT on July 11, 2019, 12:52:20 PM
Does anyone know how to get the Prophet 12 (or the Pro 2 for that matter) to power up with a specific patch?  The power-on patch seems to change from time to time, but I'm super perplexed on how to control that behavior, or if it's even possible!

Hi, hit Global 2 times to "remember" it.

Genius - thanks!

Explains how my default power-up patch seemed to have changed at 'random' from time to time!  This should really be in the manual.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Mr.Dezent on July 21, 2019, 01:26:28 PM
Astonishing what u people came up with, i love the idea of sidechaing CC´s to shift a program into a different mood for transitioning between songs.

Instead of the default "tremolo" I found an organic sweetspot for vibrato using analog shapes by doing this:
OscSlop set to 0 ; If desired detune slightly (max +/-4)

LFO1 Square FREQ 140 AMOUNT 0 SLEW 12 DEST OscAllFreq
MOD1 Aftertouch          AMOUNT 7              DEST Lfo1Amount
MOD2 Aftertouch          AMOUNT 1              DEST OscAllSlop
MOD3 Velocity              AMOUNT 2              DEST OscAllSlop
MOD4 Pitchbend           AMOUNT 2              DEST Mod2Amount
MOD5 Modwheel           AMOUNT -3             DEST Lfo1Freq

Try it with any number of OSC set to square and/or saw. At least to me it´s subtle and alive at the same time and I enhanced many of the factory programs with it.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: silvain on July 26, 2019, 06:35:38 AM
Thanks for the vibrato tip, Mr.Dezent. I'll give that a try.
I just found a very nice shimmer delay. This will also work for what Korg calls Submarine in their Minilogue XD.
Assign an LFO to delay time, choose either ramp up or down. Adjust the amount to taste. From the default patch the LFO amount won't go to an octave. You have two choices: either increase the LFO rate or assign the LFO again to delay time through the mod matrix.
Turn up the delay's feedback for more of the shimmer.
With good HP filtering of the delay you get a pleasant effect. If you take two delays with slightly different delay times panned hard left and right you also get a beautiful width.
You can add another LFO with triangle, very little amount and slower rate to introduce slight chorussing.
If you only want the delay at the end of a note, assign an aux envelope to delay amount. Turn the delay amount up, set the mod amount of the envelope to maximum negative, turn up the sustain and adjust the release to taste.
Enjoy... :)
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: dreamsynthesist on August 07, 2019, 03:43:49 AM
Anybody know a way to manually retrigger one of the envelopes?
Example: tap the slider to restart envelope 3...

A simple, but fun tip in return...

Gestural crossmixing with 4 oscillators using the sliders:

Set the oscillators to different shapes.
Osc 1 and 3 volume=127
Osc 2 and 4 volume=0

Slider 1 -> Osc 1 volume = -127
Slider 1 -> Osc 2 volume = 127
Slider 2 -> Osc 3 volume = -127
Slider 2 -> Osc 4 volume = 127

Modify as needed :)





Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: mrj1nx on August 31, 2019, 11:51:00 PM
Ok this one is a bit of a P12 "lifehack" that I just discovered, I wish I got ASAP as it saves time and keeps you in the creative flow. Most of you probably got this one early as its probably mentioned in the manual (I should probably re-read it now that I've gotten more into the basics) but for those that didnt: To assign mod destination for LFO and ENV's you can hold the LFO/ENV selector button and wiggle the destination (instead of scrolling through a huge menu with a knob like I used to do). You can also use those selector buttons when holding the assign mod source button for OSC's, LFO's & ENV's.

Using this I've been more inclined to use the delays for chorusing effects and just in general, being a bit more playful and trying things out with the LFO and ENV. Btw, a tip for creating chorus effects (here's some captn obvious stuff:) is to play with the delay and then start turning the time knob as if an LFO was moving it, once you're happy with the sound, you can now assign the LFO to do a similar movement of the same knob.

Bonus tip that probably already mentioned is holding the selector button to select all of them at once.

Ok here's a tip I've been using from pretty much Day 1. Create your own Init patch. I've got one main init patch with just a couple of changes, such as setting pitch bend range to 2 instead of 12 and probably a couple of others. I'm thinking of creating a new one that has a stereo chorus setup. So the idea being having different init patches to start from.

Ok this is just a quick thought, I've wished the Distortion knob was assignable in the mod matrix, did I miss something, I'm assuming it's not assignable. I'm assuming it's because the Distortion is applied on the master mix instead of per voice, so it woudn't make sense to mix that in with the per voice stuff.

Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Chaparral on September 01, 2019, 01:59:14 AM
Thanks for that mrj1nx. a timely reminder for me not to live in the mod matrix. I tended to build my voices the slow way, using all the controllers to make the subtle (or not so subtle) voice changes that worked best. The next stage in my development was to change additional temporary aspects of the voices using the knobs in real time whilst playing (I recommend holding the edit layer A and B button for things like brutal envelope cuts).
I had completely forgotten that I also have speedy access to mod matrix changes. This will prove especially useful to the improvised side of my playing.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: silvain on September 09, 2019, 11:54:03 AM
...
Ok this is just a quick thought, I've wished the Distortion knob was assignable in the mod matrix,
It is not, there are two distortion circuits, each covering six voices at once.
...
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: silvain on September 10, 2019, 10:50:05 AM
Morph from square to sawtooth, with some kind of funny PWM.
set OSC1 wave to pulse/square
set OSC2 to sawtooth, one octave +12 semitones up
set both OSC1 and OSC2 to phase lock (tab two display knob 3
set OSC2 volume to half of OSC1
assign OSC2 level/volume to a controller. The more you lower OSC2 level the more pulse/square it is.
for PWM: control both OSC1 and OSC2 sdhapemod with the same controller, maybe in different amounts. It's not the same as sawtooth shapemod.
Why? It's from additive synthesis. If you stack up lots of sinewaves in the harmonic series: note, one octave up (note frequency times 2), one octave and a fifth (note frequency times 3) and so on, you get typical wave spectra. Wave forms differ in the volume of the harmonics and to some degree in the phase of the harmonics.
A sawtooth wave has all harmonics with a volume of 1/n, n being the harmonic: note = 1/1 = full volume, harmonic two (one octave up): volume = 1/2 = half volume, then 1/3 of full volume and so on.
A square wave only has the odd harmonics: the first, third, fifth and so on. Though at the same levels so at 1/3, 1/5 and so on of full volume.
If you pitch a sawtooth one octave above a square, it's basic pitch will be the second harmonic to the square. At half the volume it is correct for the sawtooth (second harmonic, volume = 1/2 of full volume). The next harmonic of the sawtooth is the fourth harmonic to the square wave. So the saw will cover harmonics 2, 4, 6 and so on. It will also have the correct volume.
I tried it and it works well. :)
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Soundquest on September 16, 2019, 08:58:35 AM
Sivian,  So am I interpreting this right that the goal is to get an intermediate between the pulse and saw?   I've messed around with using 8 oscillators on P12 (layer A and B) for attempting some sine wave additive.  I had some success, but really found that the key was how you would set the volumes, especially on the first few multiples.  The slightest difference in such adjustment changes the whole flavor of the patch.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Joel57 on April 22, 2020, 06:33:25 PM
Mind is blown!  This is what I've been needing to know for a long time now, thanks everyone for sharing!
I can see that I'm just getting started.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: RezRocks on June 07, 2020, 01:23:46 AM
Hi, everyone. I'm a new P12 owner and this forum is a godsend! I love this synth and am super excited to learn all the ins and outs of it as I think it's one of the most powerful hybrid synths ever made. Anyway, I won't bore you with the fine details of my life or why I wanted a P12, but I just wanted to say "hi" and introduce myself to the forum. I'll be checking back regularly for new ideas, and if I run across anything useful to the group, I'll be sure to share it (although don't count on that happening anytime soon - I'm still pretty much of a novice when it comes to sound design). But what I've found here so far will keep me busy for weeks to come!
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: RezRocks on June 07, 2020, 01:25:59 AM
Does anyone know how to get the Prophet 12 (or the Pro 2 for that matter) to power up with a specific patch?  The power-on patch seems to change from time to time, but I'm super perplexed on how to control that behavior, or if it's even possible!

Hi, hit Global 2 times to "remember" it.

Thank you! I've been wondering the same thing myself.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Soundquest on June 09, 2020, 11:16:02 AM
Welcome to the forum RezRocks
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Chaparral on August 12, 2020, 08:34:20 AM
I've been busy with my second Prophet 12. I originally bought it as a backup, as you are not making them any more.
 I have posted elsewhere about using 4 Boss FV 500L pedals - 2 for volume - (stereo outputs A and B) and 2 for expression. Now I have the second P12 I was looking for pedal shortcuts, and discovered that I can use both the twin volume channels AND the expression channel simultaneously on each pedal. With very little tweaking of my voices I am now using 4 pedals for 8 audio channels (4 stereo) and 4 expression channels. So instead of being swamped by pedals I have the same number. OK I have slightly less control as Adjusting a pedals volume affects the expression on one of the synths, but in practice I have not found it too problematic, whereas 8 pedals would be silly.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Soundquest on August 13, 2020, 08:43:27 AM
Chaparral,  glad it worked out for you. Yeah,  I think 8 pedals would be a bit much.  I assume one of your two P12's is a module?
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Chaparral on August 17, 2020, 06:22:25 AM
I went for 2 keyboards - one to take out and one safe in the studio. I don't have any other synths, but I have no shortage of great sounds. We are moving house, but this winter i shall be exploring 4 part voices by linking synths.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: Chaparral on April 17, 2021, 11:15:38 AM
Currently running one P12 connected by Midi to a second P12. With 4 stereo volume pedals, 4 Expression pedals and 2 sustain pedals. I have not got round to freestyle playing, I am having too much fun with the arpeggiators - I originally set my A and B arpeggiators to different polyrhythmically related intervals for every voice. With two part A and two part Bs and 4 polyrhythmic patterns it is a fascinating detour from my usual musical practice. If anything of value emerges from this sea of overlapping patterns I will share it here.
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: justmull on August 07, 2021, 05:44:42 AM
Juno 106 Style Chorus I
Delay 1 Time: 53
Delay 1 Amt: 127
Delay 2 Time: 54
Delay 2 Amt: 127
Mod 1 Source: DC
Mod 1 Amount: -127
Mod 1 Dest: Delay 1 Pan
Mod 2 Source: DC
Mod 2 Amount: 127
Mod 2 Dest: Delay 2 Pan
LFO 1 Shape: Tri
LFO 1 Freq: 38
LFO 1 Dest: Delay 1 Time
LFO 1 Amt: 5
LFO 2 Shape: Tri
LFO 2 Freq: 39
LFO 2 Dest: Delay 2 Time
LFO 2 Amt: 5

Juno 106 Style Chorus II
all settings the same as Chorus I except...
LFO 1 Freq: 52
LFO 2 Freq: 53

Juno 106 Style Saw
Osc 1 Shape: Saw
Osc 1 Pitch: C2
Osc 1 Level: 100
Osc 2 Shape: Saw
Osc 2 Pitch: C3
Osc 2 Level: 9
Drive: 64

Juno 106 Style Square
Osc 1 Shape: Pulse
Osc 1 Pitch: C2
Osc 1 Level: 100
Osc 2 Shape: Saw
Osc 2 Pitch: C3
Osc 2 Level: 50
Drive: 64

Alpha Juno "What The" Style Oscillator (aka Hoover)
Osc 1 Shape: Pulse
Osc 1 Shape Mod: -20
Osc 1 Pitch: C2
Osc 1 Level: 100
Osc 1 Sub: 80
Osc 2 Shape: Saw
Osc 2 Shape Mod: -48
Osc 2 Pitch: C2
Osc 2 Level: 100
Osc 3 Shape: Saw
Osc 3 Pitch: C3
Osc 3 Level: 35
Osc 4 Shape: White Noise
Osc 4 Level: 19
Drive: 11
LPF: 2 Pole
LPF Freq: 160
LPF Res: 17
Amp Env Release: 0
Set up any LFO with...
LFOx Shape: Tri
LFOx Freq: 120
and route it with the mod slots as follows...
LFOx > Osc 1 Shape Mod: 50
LFOx > Osc 1 Freq: 3
LFOx > Osc 2 Shape Mod: 50
and if you need a bit more help to get started...
Env 3 Dest: Osc All Freq
Env 3 Decay: 64
Env 3 Amount: 80
Title: Re: P12 Tricks and Tips
Post by: LPF83 on August 08, 2021, 05:44:51 AM
Juno 106 Style Chorus I
[...]

Thank you for these gems!  It's a wakeup call to me what a powerful feature the 4 delay lines are and what a treat for sound designing the P12 is.