The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: Razmo on October 05, 2015, 03:41:20 PM
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Yeah yeah... you knew it would eventualy pop up, so here it is: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread :P
There seems to be lacking a forum cattegory in here, where members can post links to music made with DSI gear (and other hardware), like on the "old" forum... so until that has been done (if), this thread will also serve as an outlet for my (un)musical experimentations 8)
I'm currently making a bit of a change in my studio setup because I started doing audio layer recording, instead of live MIDI recording as I've always been doing... I've also started making Ambient music which makes me realize the value of digital synths with loads of FX built in... thus some synths will be leaving my setup, and others take their place in the future... but rest assured... it's NOT any DSI synths that is leaving the building here, not even Tempest ;)
Actualy the Tempest is much more valuable now that I'm recording in audio layers, as I can just record whatever I come up with, without having to think about saving stuff... it makes Tempest very flexible for my usage... I recently added the capability to store whole Beats to my SoundDiver editor which is really nice, because I can browse whole beats by the flick of a key in SoundDiver... much more intuitive than dumping single Sounds all the time... unfortunately, the SysEx format does not allow me to make edits to a Beat in SoundDiver, but that's not essential... I create sounds using my Sounds editor, then dump them one at a time to a Beat on Tempest, and when a kit is done, I just dump it back to SoundDiver from Tempest to save it in my library of Beats.
Here is a little joint adventure (short one) by Tempest and EX5... more Ambient, as this is my genre for the future:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/The_Dragon_and_the_Demon.mp3
Currently I'm trying to sell my Waldorf Microwave (yes the one with analog filters)... I'm trying to get away from old synths, and this one is beginning to annoy me with all of it's quirks... not using it much either, and because it's so circumstancial to get wavetables and waveshapes in and out of this thing... it just has to go.
In the meantime I'm going to save up for a rack version of the Modulus 002 and Hypersynth Xenophone... probably also a Yamaha Reface DX, as I don't have any FM synthesis (real FM synthesis that is). Other than that I don't need much more than something to play samples, but I'll wait until some modern company makes a new hybrid sampler with analog VCF/VCA's (DSI!?) ... I'd like to see Dave's new interpretation af the Wavestation, but with added user sample capabilities in flash 8)
Also recently got a Mackie Big Knob monitor controller... much better routing options because of that one... allows me to have more monitors and a sub connected with individual control.
I recently found out that my subwoofer has serious resonance problems... so I've taken it out of the setup, and to my horror it seems that I've had it way too loud all the time... when I hear the kicks I made on Tempest without it, they suck big time... really thin :-\ ... so I have some redesign to do on those kicks now... I'm getting a new sub at some point, but at least now I can switch it off on the Mackie Big Knob, and test if it sounds good without a sub.
I also began composing Ambient with headphones... to get a better stereo perspective orientation... so things a quite different here these days...
Well... ranting enough for this post... feel free to rant away if you want... it's an "anything goes" thread :)
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Yeah yeah... you knew it would eventualy pop up, so here it is: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread :P
This was inevitable, wasn't it? ;D
Here is a little joint adventure (short one) by Tempest and EX5... more Ambient, as this is my genre for the future:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/The_Dragon_and_the_Demon.mp3
Good to hear that you're finally getting along with the Tempest. Man, that's some creepy ambient, but I expected that you'd be working towards Halloween again. Let us hear more in the coming weeks!
So you're basically replacing the Microwave with a 002? I'm just curious because to me the latter seems to be a good choice if one is looking for PPG-like sounds.
I'd like to see Dave's new interpretation af the Wavestation, but with added user sample capabilities in flash 8)
+1
That and the Pro 2's filters would be pretty neat.
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Man, that's some creepy ambient
. o O ( creepyent )
Someone once suggested "Sinister Ambient" as the genre for the crap I have on my soundcloud account. ;D
That and the Pro 2's filters would be pretty neat.
I have a better or at least more expressive filter suggestion for future DSI machines. Still have to write that mail and send it off to DSI though. ;)
Also maybe having a combination of wave tables, granular synthesis and samples could be an interesting concept for a sampler? Lots of DSP programming though.
@Razmo: I will happily buy your analog filter microwave for one danish kroner... ;) ;D :o
PS: Anyone seen what Jean-Michel Jarre are up to (https://www.youtube.com/user/JeanMichelJarreVEVO/videos) these days?
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Yeah yeah... you knew it would eventualy pop up, so here it is: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread :P
This was inevitable, wasn't it? ;D
Here is a little joint adventure (short one) by Tempest and EX5... more Ambient, as this is my genre for the future:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/The_Dragon_and_the_Demon.mp3
Good to hear that you're finally getting along with the Tempest. Man, that's some creepy ambient, but I expected that you'd be working towards Halloween again. Let us hear more in the coming weeks!
So you're basically replacing the Microwave with a 002? I'm just curious because to me the latter seems to be a good choice if one is looking for PPG-like sounds.
I'd like to see Dave's new interpretation af the Wavestation, but with added user sample capabilities in flash 8)
+1
That and the Pro 2's filters would be pretty neat.
Yes... completely inescapable ;D ... but I thought, that based on the number of views my rant threads got on the old forum, that nobody would mind :)
Oh... that Tempest... It's my "Wife" until I find a real one :o ... and yes... Halloween is coming up, but I'm a sucker for all things creepy all year round... it's halloween all year round in my head ;D
About the Microwave swap... I'm not swapping it out because the 002 has PPG-like timbres, but because the 002 seems to be a modern, very well made and good sounding piece of equipment... I know it has wavetables too, but that's not the real reason... Prophet 12 has "wavetables" as well... the reason I'm ridding myself of the MW is basicaly that it is cumbersome to create waveshapes and manage all the data types, and it does not support full-cycle waveshapes... second half of the waveshape is a mirrored, and flipped version of the first half of the waveshape, and it require special software to create wavetables from samples, and it's not sounding too good... MW is good for what it does, but sounds mostly digital-harsh with an analog "icing"... it does have many good sounds, but it has to go... it's an old machine, and the backlight has now died on it... I assume it's just a matter of years before it needs some kind of service, and I simply don't want to bother with servicing. I want modern, reliable machines.
I like Wavetable synthesis... but I'll just have to wait until a modern version is made of NAVE in hardware (if)... until then I like the idear of hardwired wavetables in P12 and 002... that makes me not have to think about creating any myself. I may even pair the new Waldorf Eurorack wavetable oscillator with a MOOG Mother32 or an Erebus someday instead... time will tell.
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Man, that's some creepy ambient
. o O ( creepyent )
Someone once suggested "Sinister Ambient" as the genre for the crap I have on my soundcloud account. ;D
That and the Pro 2's filters would be pretty neat.
I have a better or at least more expressive filter suggestion for future DSI machines. Still have to write that mail and send it off to DSI though. ;)
Also maybe having a combination of wave tables, granular synthesis and samples could be an interesting concept for a sampler? Lots of DSP programming though.
@Razmo: I will happily buy your analog filter microwave for one danish kroner... ;) ;D :o
PS: Anyone seen what Jean-Michel Jarre are up to (https://www.youtube.com/user/JeanMichelJarreVEVO/videos) these days?
My Microwave is looking at you with a very sinister look in it's display now! ;D
It's for sale for 5.000,- danish kroner which is actualy rather cheap considering what they sell for on Ebay these days... saw one for more than 8.000,- danish kroner a few days ago ;) ... and then it's even got a RAM card that comes with it... and it has been used by the (in)famous Razmo (sorry, no signing on the front panel, but that can be arranged! ;D )
The thing is... I want that amount for it... if I don't, I'll simply keep it for what it is :)
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My Microwave is looking at you with a very sinister look in it's display now! ;D
Hehe! I just knew you would appreciate that offer in your own special way! ;D
Seriously, I am not in the market for any full priced synthesizer these days for very good financial reasons. A very good offer maybe its unlikely to happen anyway. Did drool a little over the new RGB Launchpad for various UI potential reasons but that is another matter all together. Got to focus on what I really want to do and that is way more elbow grease orientated!
PS: For some strange reason ME (https://twitter.com/dslsynth/status/649973523776147456) do not reply to such questions.
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My Microwave is looking at you with a very sinister look in it's display now! ;D
Hehe! I just knew you would appreciate that offer in your own special way! ;D
Seriously, I am not in the market for any full priced synthesizer these days for very good financial reasons. A very good offer maybe its unlikely to happen anyway. Did drool a little over the new RGB Launchpad for various UI potential reasons but that is another matter all together. Got to focus on what I really want to do and that is way more elbow grease orientated!
PS: For some strange reason ME (https://twitter.com/dslsynth/status/649973523776147456) do not reply to such questions.
Anyway... I cannot recommend the MW, unless you are a person who just LOVE to mess around with obscure outdated programs, and have lots of patience... until Chysn made that wav2microwave web utility, even that part was a daunting ordeal... I have to say, that the sound of the MW is truly unique... I don't think there is many other synths with just that character, so it all boils down to what type of sound you like.... most presets are very harsh, aliased and digital in nature, and sound somewhat like a bad 8bit sampler... but then... when you REALLY know how to program it, it can sound REALLY analog, with it's own very nice character... problem is that it is so complicated.
First, it only allow you to create 12 user wavetables... that's horrendously few, and they are NOT part of the preset... presets only point to these wavetables.
Second, the waveshapes are half-cycle, and the programs for creating such half-cycle waveforms from sampled material are either hopelessly outdated, or extremely complicated to use, and they rarely save in MW syx format... also these waveshapes are pointed to by the wavetables.... this gives three different data types that are dependant on each other... and I did not mention the multi datatype, which points to presets... so when you need to put a multi into a library, it includes 8 presets, 12 wavetables and 61 waveshapes to be certain it sound the way it should... quickly such a library gets cluttered up with loads of waveshapes, wavetables and presets belonging to other multis, to other presets, wavetables etc... there is no syx for dumping everything in ONE go, so that you can save stuff in one entry... you'd have to create custom software for this, and even then, the calculated time between such a dump to allow the MW to set up everything is more than 5 sec.!
The only way to use it in a structured maner is to decide that you only have as many wavetables and waveshapes as the machine allows, and that's waaaay too few.... 12 wavetables are quickly used up, not to mention the 61 waveshapes... but this will be the way I'll use it, if no one buys my MW.
Actualy there are some sounds on my MW I'll really miss... it's not many, but a few... I'll try and see if I can recreate some of them on P12 instead.
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Well... as I'm trying to sell my Waldorf Microwave, I'm also trying to replicate a few of the presets that I use the most on it, so that I'll have a less hard time getting rid of it...
The first preset is one I've used A LOT! ... really love this preset, and originaly it was made for the Microwave II/XT/XTk when I had a MW2... I'm not the original creator of this sound, but I replicated it on the MW1 when I sold my MW2... in fact all those presets I'm thinking about replicating, was initialy on the MW2... I just liked them so much I made them for the MW1 too.
Recreating them on MW1 was quite simple, as MW1 & 2 are pretty much the same, exept that MW1 has fewer parameters and no FX.
Recreating these on a non-wavetable synth is harder... but I'll try anyway.
Here is the result from my first recreation: http://razmo.ziphoid.com/MW_EMU.mp3
Maybe you can hear what DSI synth I used? ;) ... the first half is MW1, the second is a DSI synth.
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Here's a little doodle I did while "reconnecting" with my Waldorf Microwave again... it should demonstrate very well the unique sound of the Microwave 1 ... Don't really know many other synths with this "straaaange" character...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/MW_DEMO.mp3
Just MW thru Lexicon MX400 pingpong delay...
...beware... 20 minutes of sounds ;D
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Well... I've been talking lately about getting a Pro2 soon... I've thought it over, and decided differently because I really have a problem with two things on Pro2 currently.... 1. Only 3˝ octaves, and 2. Too many similarities to P12.
I'm in need of a master keyboard, so 3˝ octaves... I just have this feeling I'll regret it... besides, I don't really need something that is so similar to what I allready got... as I'm compacting my studio at the moment, I'll need as many different synthesis methods as possible, and some of them has to be geared towards the type of music I'm planning to make, which is any kind of Ambient.
Then yesterday, I found what I believe would fit all my needs:
(http://rekkerd.org/img/200905/roland_v_synth_gt.jpg)
So I have this on hold now... buying it from a good friend of mine. It's the latest version of the V-Synth engine, and it has a lot of cool sample manipulation technology in it, plus 61 good quality keys with aftertouch... on top I'm looking forward to trying the infamous D-Beam with some of my DSI synths, not the least the large XY pad, that I think will work wonders as an alternative to the two separate sliders I miss on the P12 module.
I'm paying approx. 1.600 US dollars for it, which is quite good... it was initialy a demo version from a music store here in Denmark, and it even still has a year of warranty on it, so that's nice.
That even leaves some funds to be spend on maybe that Yamaha Reface DX that I've also had in mind for some time... :)
I've not given up on the Pro2 yet though... it just has to wait, and who knows... maybe Dave comes up with something new and even more exiting before that day comes... only the future will tell...
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I am really intrigued by the Reface DX. It's great that Yamaha is bringing back a classic FM architecture. A DX100 was my first actual synthesizer, and I've enjoyed multiple TX81Zs, multiple DX7s, and a TX7 over the years. The TF7 for iPad is a great FM synth, but its sound is maybe a little too refined.
My problem is that when I think of buying a Reface DX, I start thinking that I could have a TX802 for half the price.
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Yes... I have had the same thought about tx802... Mainly for One reason: Dx7 compatibility... There is a HUUUUGE free library of sounds for the dx7.
But then there is the sound.. Many old fm synths has a lot of aliasing, being 12bit or Even 10bit... That is cool for some sounds, but if you Are in for the clangorous Bell like sound or others that die and fade out slowly, then it becomes critical when aliasing destroy the "tail" ...
The reface is most likely above 16bit in its algorithms, ensuring pristine and crystal clear audio thru probably 24bit converters... That is what i need for my ambient stuff.
On top, the reface has one thing that no other FM synth has: Feedback on all operators, and Even with two types of feedback styles... Also it has built in FX that is part of the preset, which is also a huge plus.
And lastly, it has a modern MIDI implementation, with all included in ONE sysex message... Many earlier models had several sysex addon messages for One complete patch which only complicates editor Development.
So i have no doubts... Only thing I'm hoping is, that Yamaha don't suddenly create another new FM synth with more features and backwards DX7 compatibility... the biggest grief I have about the Reface is that they did not make it a 6-operator FM synth that could load DX7 presets... that would have sealed the deal as the perfect solution, especialy if they made a rack version of it 😊
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I would look into the VSynth XT as well, you get the D50 with the XT and you don't get them with the GT by default.
Of course if you want a keyboard, the AP stuff and twice the power then the GT is the way to go ;)
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I would look into the VSynth XT as well, you get the D50 with the XT and you don't get them with the GT by default.
Of course if you want a keyboard, the AP stuff and twice the power then the GT is the way to go ;)
I had the XT version once... and yes, it's a fine instrument which I would have chosen, if it was not for a few facts about the GT version.
Most importantly, is that it has keys... I'm selling my Yamaha EX5 soon, simply because I'm tired of it's convoluted way of creating samples, and the fact that it's loading time is broken, even with SCSI... so the XT is not an option... I need the keys.
Second, the GT has modern connectivity... it's has USB for computer, and USB for data... the other versions has PCMCIA which is also outdated, and one of the most important things for me is that getting samples to and from the sampler is fast and intuitive... I like the idear of storing my banks on USB Sticks.
And then there is the AP synthesis... I know some find it not so important, but it's a feature I'd really like to use for flute sounds for example, as some kind of natural element is crucial in my Ambient projects.
The double engine is nice to have, but not crucial to me.
The D-Beam, though many hate it, I'd like to try and use... it's not on previous versions.
It's a shame about the D50 not being there of course, but I really don't need it either... the V-Synth engine is more than capable of doing what I need.
By the way... the thing I like about the V-Synth sampler is that it has elastic audio... that you do not need to set up time-consuming multisamples, but instead can use time stretching and formant shaping with just one sample... it's a huge time saver, and it elliminates that irritating byproduct of multisamples, where you can actualy hear where new samples begin, and old ones stop on the keyboard range.
The only thing I'm fearing about the GT is that it's the typical Roland aftertouch sensitivity, where you have to break your fingers to even initiate it... but I'll just have to get used to that, if that's the case.
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I've had a V-Synth GT for 4 years. I can say a few things about it...
Quality of keys and build is the best I've ever had, even better than Moog stuff. Although it has a plastic piece on the sides, it is full metal beneath it... the keys are also the best semi-weighted synth keys I've ever used, even compared with Nord, Korg, Yamaha and a lot of other. It is slightly more firm than the ones on the Prophet 08, but with a better feel, no lateral movements (you have it on the 08), precise velocity tracking. The after touch is more on the rough side, which is the only negative side of it.
Sonically, the internal synth engine is enough. As good as a few other VAs on the market, but don't expected something magic. It really excels at the sampling side... it does everything one could hope for, but at the cost of being kind of inaccessible for sampling edition. It isn't so hard to do, but takes a lot of time! A lot!!
I can answer pretty much anything you want... just ask.
Cheers!
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I've had a V-Synth GT for 4 years. I can say a few things about it...
Quality of keys and build is the best I've ever had, even better than Moog stuff. Although it has a plastic piece on the sides, it is full metal beneath it... the keys are also the best semi-weighted synth keys I've ever used, even compared with Nord, Korg, Yamaha and a lot of other. It is slightly more firm than the ones on the Prophet 08, but with a better feel, no lateral movements (you have it on the 08), precise velocity tracking. The after touch is more on the rough side, which is the only negative side of it.
Sonically, the internal synth engine is enough. As good as a few other VAs on the market, but don't expected something magic. It really excels at the sampling side... it does everything one could hope for, but at the cost of being kind of inaccessible for sampling edition. It isn't so hard to do, but takes a lot of time! A lot!!
I can answer pretty much anything you want... just ask.
Cheers!
It seems I've got it right, when doing my presumptions about the V-Synth GT... you see, the aftertouch is exactly what worried me a little bit because the bender looks exactly like the one on a lot of EDIROL controllers, that later became Roland controllers... I've had the A-800 PRO myself, and I liked the keys feel, and the velocity was really good... but the Aftertouch was a chore to use, and you'd have to almost break your fingers to initiate it... I decided to live with that though.
This hints me that the keybed in V-Synth GT may in fact be the same as the A-800 PRO in some way... but that's ok... it was probably the best controller keybed I've had despite the Aftertouch being "heavy".
I also know that some people prefer the older version of the V-Synth... they say that the menus are worse on the new version... I've had the XT version and found that to be simple enough.
But in the end, it all boils down to the sound, that it has good keys, and is easy to use when importing/exporting samples to/from computer... I'm not worried about the sound of it... I'm not worried about the keys either or the data storage for that matter.... so I really don't know what I should be worried about...
but if you have something in particular, especialy remaining bugs, then please tell me! .. .I'd appreciate that! :)
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It seems I've got it right, when doing my presumptions about the V-Synth GT... you see, the aftertouch is exactly what worried me a little bit because the bender looks exactly like the one on a lot of EDIROL controllers, that later became Roland controllers... I've had the A-800 PRO myself, and I liked the keys feel, and the velocity was really good... but the Aftertouch was a chore to use, and you'd have to almost break your fingers to initiate it... I decided to live with that though.
This hints me that the keybed in V-Synth GT may in fact be the same as the A-800 PRO in some way... but that's ok... it was probably the best controller keybed I've had despite the Aftertouch being "heavy".
I also know that some people prefer the older version of the V-Synth... they say that the menus are worse on the new version... I've had the XT version and found that to be simple enough.
But in the end, it all boils down to the sound, that it has good keys, and is easy to use when importing/exporting samples to/from computer... I'm not worried about the sound of it... I'm not worried about the keys either or the data storage for that matter.... so I really don't know what I should be worried about...
but if you have something in particular, especialy remaining bugs, then please tell me! .. .I'd appreciate that! :)
You'll be surprised with the key quality... A800 is on the cheap side in comparison. The GT has way better keys... only the after touch is comparable.
Data management is also very good. The USB drive is easily recognizable, projects are easy to load and everything is smooth.
You can't have a lot of samples, or even multisample easily, but that's not what the GT is for. It's more capable of handling a single sample across the whole keyboard range. That's the beauty of Elastic Audio...
I didn't have any bugs bothering me. I sold it because I wasn't using it a lot in my music, and here in Brazil it's almost impossible to sell one - seized an opportunity.
One thing that I miss about it is the effects section. Some are not that good, but other are on par with everything Roland does that is expensive and good. The whole touchscreen interaction is also very practical.
As said before, the GT make it a little hard to edit samples. Maybe it was a limitation I had, but the process should be easier. And no, it's not buggy.
I just hope for the best. I kinda miss my GT. it was very sturdy and beautiful machine that I shouldn't have dismissed.
:)
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Ahh nice! ... if it's better than A-800, I'm definitely a happy man! :D ... it will be serving as my only keyboard with which I'll be playing everything I have... Can't wait to play the sliders of my P12 module with it's X/Y pad :)
Du you know how big a capacity in USB sticks you can use with the GT? ... and can you use other USB data storage devices with it, like external harddrives? ... I'm thinking about finding a 64GB stick, which will probably fit all the samples I'll ever need.
Actualy, the "multisample" problem is fine with me... in fact that's what I'm tired of with samplers, because I can easily hear the individual samples as I play... so yes, the elastic audio technology is really nice, especialy in conjunction with the formant control as well.... it also speeds up editing, and not the least; sampling... no need to make 61 individual samples of each key anymore.
I read somewhere that the FX section was ported directly from Rolands bigger FX boxes... I don't know which though, but I remember the FX as being good on the XT for sure, but also the COSM technology opens up a lot, as they're kind of like polyphonic FX.
Editing the samples don't bother me at all... I'll be doing all my sampling beforehand using SoundForge on my computer, including looping and stuff... that's why data handling on GT is so crucial to me, because it has to be simple and fast.
Thanx for your input cr73645 :) appreciated...
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You'll be amazed with the overall build quality. Not just the keys, everything feels good.
I don't remember how exactly, but there's a way to select which MIDI CC is sent by each controller, which will provide you ways of doing things you wanted, like playing with the XY pad (very good feel, and also holds latest position if wanted). I never used my GT as a controller for doing complex stuff, just basic use of keys.
USB sticks supported were the ones with up to 16GB if I remember correctly. A normal Kingston will be enough. The sampler inside it supports up to 180 seconds of stereo samples, which is not a lot for the normal sampler, but good enough for what the GT does. In the end, you'll have a hard time to fill a 16 GB stick, probably being able to store everything you'll ever need. It doesn't support external hard drives, at least not the ones I've tried (older Samsumg external hard drives).
The COSM part is pretty special indeed. You can use a regular filter, but also a few other things that make it much more complex. There's even a filter to give pitch to noisy sounds (or even a pure noise source)... It enables the user to be creative and chain the two available COSM slots as needed.
The GT is beautiful, reliable and deep synthesizer - probably the deepest sampler I've ever used. It's powerful enough to provide the most unique sounds one could ever want. Besides being flexible, you get an excellent vocoder, incredible sample handling capabilities and a lot of other stuff ITB that will provide a complete ambient for sound creation. It is, as I see, the ultimate digital synth/sampler hybrid that I think won't be seen anymore.
A little taste of what it can do in the "strange sounds" department:
http://youtu.be/pzPwUzHT3BA
I'm glad I could help! Cheers
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Well... there is certainly no doubt that the GT is perfect for Ambient style music... It'll serve it's purpose in my studio :)
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By the way... have you used the GT with USB connection? and does this work reliably? I suppose there are custom drivers for the USB right?
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Second, the GT has modern connectivity... it's has USB for computer, and USB for data...
The XT has USB for this as well, the connector is on the front. You could mount the internal or external drive via a USB and also use audio and midi over USB including sampling from USB. Unfortunately the audio/midi driver has not been updated for a while so doesn't work with 'modern' operating systems, something you will also find on the GT I guess.
I must admit I would't mind a GT though, they were always so expensive though. The price you have been offered sounds good.
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By the way... have you used the GT with USB connection? and does this work reliably? I suppose there are custom drivers for the USB right?
I guess it is the same as the XT, the drive mounting is class compliant so no driver is needed.
Audio and midi over USB needs the driver which hasn't been updated for a while (ever!) for macs, for windows I think they are ok with Win 8 and before.
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Ahh... yes I recall now that you needed a specific driver on the XT to get transfers working, not just MIDI... Actualy the only thing I need is that it will connect with MIDI, but could just as easily use the MIDI DIN... even if I need multi client capabilities, I have found that E-MU's 1X1 MIDI cable has custom drivers that will work with ANY class compliant MIDI device, and be multi client capable... so I'll just use that driver with it, if I cannot get the custom one working here... besides, I'm still on Win7 and have no intention of swapping until absolutely necessary.
Using the GT as an audio interface is not on my list at all, so that I really don't care about at all...
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Even if I cannot get those drivers working for some reason, I don't care if I can just use a USB stick to transfer them anyway... I'd just get two sticks... one for samples alone, and another for saving banks... problem solved, and then use USB via the E-MU drivers.
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Even if I cannot get those drivers working for some reason, I don't care if I can just use a USB stick to transfer them anyway... I'd just get two sticks... one for samples alone, and another for saving banks... problem solved, and then use USB via the E-MU drivers.
For file sharing the USB will just work, you go into system on the Synth and tell it to mount the internal memory and a drive will appear on the computer, no driver needed.
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By the way... have you used the GT with USB connection? and does this work reliably? I suppose there are custom drivers for the USB right?
Yes, there are custom drivers for USB connection with the computer, for USB Audio and MIDI.
There's no need of any special connection for transferring sounds from the USB stick, you can even navigate folder within the GT - this is where it is specially more accessible than the XT/v1.
I've worked with USB Audio almost every time, in there's absolutely no problem with it. I've never had any problem to sync MIDI either. The original outputs are way hotter than the USB though...
I know you don't want to use it as audio interface, but I'd like you to remember that the V-Synth can make incredible sounds by coupling external instruments with it. You can use the external audio as an "oscillator", and process it with the whole COSM/FX inside the GT. This is one of the things I miss about it... missing my GT a lot to be honest...
Well, that's it.
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It's done... just paid for the V-Synth GT, and it'll be delivered tomorrow... looking forward to using this for some serious Ambient stuff... :)
And very soon, the next thing I'll be getting is the KORG WaveDrum Global Edition, for some serious physical modelling percussion that allow for live playing/recording... after this I'll be searching for a Yamaha VL-70m to get some serious bowed string/flute physical modelling as well... and then... some sort of FM synth later... probably I'll find an FS1R again for that task... and then I should be well off in Ambient land... :)
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Congratulations Razmo! I think you'll love it!!
Don't judge it by the internal presets. You can get far better sounds by using your own samples.
There's only a few presets that I love. One of them is called "Analog Bed", a beautiful arpeggio+brass sound - even "replicated" it with my Ambika.
Please, feel free to ask anything you want. I had a great experience with it and surely had a lot of fun. Learned a lot about it, and I can even dare to say that I used 80-90% of what it is able to do - it's a lot! I'm missing it now, even if it doesn't belong with what I'm doing musically speaking, it was a joy to create all imaginable sounds.
Cheers!
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Congratulations Razmo! I think you'll love it!!
Don't judge it by the internal presets. You can get far better sounds by using your own samples.
There's only a few presets that I love. One of them is called "Analog Bed", a beautiful arpeggio+brass sound - even "replicated" it with my Ambika.
Please, feel free to ask anything you want. I had a great experience with it and surely had a lot of fun. Learned a lot about it, and I can even dare to say that I used 80-90% of what it is able to do - it's a lot! I'm missing it now, even if it doesn't belong with what I'm doing musically speaking, it was a joy to create all imaginable sounds.
Cheers!
Yeah... I'll love it I'm sure... afterall I did have the XT version for some time, so I know most of how it sounds and what it can do... I just happened to sell the XT in a period where only analog did the trick with me... this is changing to about 50/50 now, since I started doing Ambient music... I jus realized that if I want the textures needed for Ambient music, I have to have some good digital machines as well, preferably some very expressive ones, and some that allow the usage of samples... so the V-Synth GT was self-written so to speak... that's also why I'm getting the WaveDrum... very expressive physical modelling technology there... so much I'm beginning to wonder if I REALLY need my Tempest... I don't do any dance related music anymore, and when I carefuly listened to the samples of Tempest the other day I realized, that they really did not hold much in the genre that I need... that leaves only the synth engine, but that's pretty close to the Poly Evolver and Prophet 08 anyway... and when I do layer recording... I don't really see it's use anymore... but I've decided to wait and see before letting it go again... I've done too many regrets regarding Tempest in the past, so...
I know about the internal presets by the way... they are basicaly the same as on the XT... some of them are good, but a lot of them don't really suit my needs, so yes, I'll be using my own samples... that's why I am so fixated on the ease of data communication with the GT.... I'll be loading and saving a lot, swapping samples from PC to GT, so it just HAS TO work. I already sampled all the wavetables from my Microwave, and all the VL sounds of my EX5 before they go, so that I can use them with the GT, and I have lots of plans on sampling real-world things using microphone too... weather, bells etc.
I'll most likely post some of my experimentations in here along the way :)
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My first "impact" with the V-Synth GT ... 30 minuttes of live playing some 50 presets... nothing processed, just raw output from the GT.
I'm pretty pleased with the synth so far, even before having started messing around with my own samples...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/V-SynthGTTest.mp3
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Enjoying hearing it once again. What a brilliant synthesizer!
It's actually pretty sad that I had to let it go... it was for a good cause though, got me a Prophet 08 with it. I only wish that I got the module version, so I could get the Prophet 12 keyboard, which is something I'm still considering, even having an Ambika. I just think that the 12 is a complete performance synth that no other hybrid or analog can touch.
Can you give me some input about it? What have you been doing with your P12?
Enjoy your new GT! Please post anything done with your own samples... I'm curious to hear it.
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Messed around a bit with my V-Synth GT... been reading somewhere that it´s not so good for bass... so tried making some punchy and boomy bass preset, and I don't really see the problem... would not mind using the V-Synth for bass tracks :)
Was made using the analog modelling part of V-Synth... no samples used in the following example:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/V-SynthBassTest.mp3
This synth has a really hot output! and a very present low end! 8)
I did notice though, that initialy, the attack part seemed a bit "flat" and not so punchy as I'd have liked... I found out that the reason is that when the envelope is routed to the cutoff at maximum, it clips a bit... lowering just a bit made the sound a hell of a lot more clean and punchy sounding ;) .. maybe that's why some feel it does not do bass well?
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I've heard you sound, but I still think that it isn't quite up to some other VAs (Virus TI for example), that have a better and more defined low end.
Cool sound anyway! :)
The envelopes inside the V-Synth GT are slow for punchy sounds. That's why I like it more as a pad and FX machine than for traditional sounds. There's also a lot of beautiful piano-like and metallic sounds inside it, one just has to dig deeper and find it!
Cheers!
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I've heard you sound, but I still think that it isn't quite up to some other VAs (Virus TI for example), that have a better and more defined low end.
Cool sound anyway! :)
The envelopes inside the V-Synth GT are slow for punchy sounds. That's why I like it more as a pad and FX machine than for traditional sounds. There's also a lot of beautiful piano-like and metallic sounds inside it, one just has to dig deeper and find it!
Cheers!
The punch can be partly enhanced with a dedicated parameter in the oscillator section... and yes, it does have a certain VA quality to it's sound... or rather a digital character in my opinion... I also think it depends on what kind of sound you are after... On my speakers, the bass on V-Synth is so prominent, that the bass ports makes my hair wave when loud, even the speaker's limit LEDs start going off... it's sub sonic frequencies for sure...
But it's not "analog bass"... and I will not use it for that, and actualy I'm going to use it for pads and other FX stuff... that's my main use for it, along with weird mangled vocals.
Someday I'll get a good analog monosynth to take care of the bass department... I'm still waiting for a new rackmount from MOOG actualy... most preferably the Sub37 in a rack format or the like... I'm not much for their older rack-machines as they're way too limited in modulation and flexibility... the Sub37 is a bit more complex, and that's what I want.
Besides... I'll be getting a used Yamaha VL-70m very soon... for physical modelling, and I allready have a BC3 wind controller, so that'll be cool :)
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Allright... a lot of changes is taking place in my studio at the moment... en general, I'm going to move to a smaller apartment at some point, and thus need to slim down the selection of synths that I have... Also, I've begun making music in Audio Layers (as stated previously), so I do not need a huge amount of synthesizers anymore. I need basicaly, a single synth for each type of synthesis, so the choice has fallen on eight synths maximum.
The synths need to be geared toward my Ambient projects to come, so it'll be a mixture of digital and analog, so that I can get as many types of synthesis as possible.
I´m concentrating mainly on polyphonic flagships, mainly to get as flexible synth engines as possible, and as many voices as possible, so a lot of my monosynths has now been sold. Also, I want to get rid of old quirky synths, as I don´t have time to fiddle around with repair and quirky MIDI specs etc.
Another requirement I've set up is that most of the synths must have USB connectivity... I'm tired of huge spaghetti-lumps of cords lying everywhere, so getting rid of MIDI interfaces is a must as well... only a few synths I cannot have with USB connectivity will "survive" the cleanup, and be replaced as soon as alternatives pop up in the future with USB.
Currently, my setup is:
1. Roland V-Synth GT - working as master keyboard, and sampling engine mainly.
2. Yamaha VL-70m - working as physical modelling engine for wind/brass/plucked etc. realistic synthesis
3. Yamaha Reface DX - working as FM engine, and small handy controller as it can rest on my desk next to computer
4. DSI Prophet '08 - working as analog polyphonic engine... will swap this with a P6 when I have the funds.
5. DSI Prophet 12 - working as hybrid allround-synthesis engine.
6. MOOG Sub37 - working as analog monosynth engine, mainly for bass and leads with a character
7. ?
8. ?
Two synths remain unknown for now... whatever catch my GAS I suppose :)
Some of you probably notice that two synths are missing on the list... Poly Evolver Rack and Tempest... yes... they are being sold... I don't need an Evolver anymore, as the P12 can do much of the same, so it has been sold... I'm finaly free from thinking about MIDI bugs! ;D ... some may say it's not a wise choice... and my GAS still weeps, but I don't need it! ... Tempest has always been a thorn in my side honestly... BUGs still present, bad MIDI implementation, and serious transient problems in my opinion... also, that kind of sound it does best, is not what I need for my Ambient projects, and the samples in it is not of those I DO need... it has also been sold.
I'll be getting a MOOG Sub37 very soon.. .most likely ordering it next week when the funds from Tempest and Evolver ticks in from the buyers... This means I'll have two keyboard, but that's ok... in fact it's nice to have two, if you want to play one synth with one hand, and another with the other hand, and I really need the amount of live tweakability the keyboard offers... The Sub37 will be my only analog monosynth, so it needs to have ultimate analog character capable of creamy deep basses, and be modern with preset storage and MIDI specs worthy of my attention... Sub37 does just that 8)
I'll also get a VL-70m later this month... found a really good price on a used unit, and I allready have the BC3 breath controller to use with it... looking forward to that...
And next purchase... presumably soon too, is the Reface DX.... there are many other FM synths and more capable, especialy the FS1R, but I want USB connectivity, so Reface it is...
At some point, I'll probably get a P6 to swap with my P8... mainly because of it's sound, but also because it has built in effects, and USB connectivity (P8 does not)... only bad thing is that the engine of P6 is less complex, and it does not have the ability to layer two presets as far as I know? ... but I'll live... I can do those sounds on P12 instead.
That's about it for the update in my studio... I'll probably be back soon, ranting about the Sub37 ;D
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Hehe! Yet another GAO event! Sad to see you sold your Evolver and Tempest as both are great machines.
Anyway, speaking of Evolver: Any chance I could convince you to post your Evolver presets now that you don't need them anymore? ;) 8)
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Currently, my setup is:
1. Roland V-Synth GT - working as master keyboard, and sampling engine mainly.
2. Yamaha VL-70m - working as physical modelling engine for wind/brass/plucked etc. realistic synthesis
3. Yamaha Reface DX - working as FM engine, and small handy controller as it can rest on my desk next to computer
4. DSI Prophet '08 - working as analog polyphonic engine... will swap this with a P6 when I have the funds.
5. DSI Prophet 12 - working as hybrid allround-synthesis engine.
6. MOOG Sub37 - working as analog monosynth engine, mainly for bass and leads with a character
7. ?
8. ?
Wow, that's quite a change. Choosing one synth per type of synthesis makes sense. I would have never guessed that you'd get rid of your Evolver though. In fact, I think you're the first of the 'traditional Evolver users' here that says the Prophet-12 coupled with a Prophet '08 or a Prophet-6 can take over its duties. (Don't worry, I'm not accusing you of heresy.) I'd be curious to hear what you think about the Sub 37 and its MIDI implementation.
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Hehe! Yet another GAO event! Sad to see you sold your Evolver and Tempest as both are great machines.
Anyway, speaking of Evolver: Any chance I could convince you to post your Evolver presets now that you don't need them anymore? ;) 8)
Sure... but I don't have that many that I created myself to be honest... but I've attached them to this post. :)
Please note that it's an actual .rar archive, but this forum does not allow for that type of file, so you have to rename it to .rar first.
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Note that a few of the patches from the above attachment use the sequencer, but they play when you hit a key, with a reset on every keystroke (the way I prefer sequences to act on Evolver) ... So make sure you are either supplying Evolver with a clock signal, or have it set to use internal clock... also preferably set the global settings so that it uses Patch settings, rather than global ones.
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Thanks a lot for the patches, Razmo! I look forward to study them closer as soon as I get my own software up and running again!
Hope that the hihat patch is included as I found some inspiration in this video that I wanna try out one day:
https://youtu.be/stROAgFmIFI?t=4m7s
With the Evolvers sequencer there could be some interesting types of percussive sounds possible. Which is where your hihat patch comes into play.
Thanks again! :)
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Thanks a lot for the patches, Razmo! I look forward to study them closer as soon as I get my own software up and running again!
Hope that the hihat patch is included as I found some inspiration in this video that I wanna try out one day:
https://youtu.be/stROAgFmIFI?t=4m7s
With the Evolvers sequencer there could be some interesting types of percussive sounds possible. Which is where your hihat patch comes into play.
Thanks again! :)
Yes, the hihat should be there... both closed and open... and the kick and snare too... the rest is mostly sequencer stuff :)
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Hey Razmo!
I just got myself a piece of gear that might be usable to you: Elektron Analog Four. I'm waiting for mine to get here (coming from abroad, there's no seller in Brazil). Yes, yes, I should've saved money for the P12, but I just couldn't. ;)
Since you have a lot of things already, maybe it would add some sequencer power to live gigs and improvisations. It is a very capable synth, and expectacular sequencer, being able to even control external CV gear while feeding effects and a few other stuff to its sound. The Sub37 would fit nicely with it.
If you're willing to get rid of computer to record MIDI and stuff, maybe an Elektron Octatrack.
I think both would fit nicely in the kind of sound you want to do. Cheers!
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Hey Razmo!
I just got myself a piece of gear that might be usable to you: Elektron Analog Four. I'm waiting for mine to get here (coming from abroad, there's no seller in Brazil). Yes, yes, I should've saved money for the P12, but I just couldn't. ;)
Since you have a lot of things already, maybe it would add some sequencer power to live gigs and improvisations. It is a very capable synth, and expectacular sequencer, being able to even control external CV gear while feeding effects and a few other stuff to its sound. The Sub37 would fit nicely with it.
If you're willing to get rid of computer to record MIDI and stuff, maybe an Elektron Octatrack.
I think both would fit nicely in the kind of sound you want to do. Cheers!
Problem is, that I'm so acustomed to working via computer for editing presets, recording and stuff, that working without one would be very awkward for me... I'm way too dependant on using SoundDiver when browsing for sounds, and just going from clean MIDI recording, to actual Audio Layer recording was a big step for me...
I need all my synths exept for the V-Synth to be editable from within SoundDiver... and unfortunately, none of Elektron's gear has a checksum format that allow me to create editors for their synths, so Elektron is no-go for me, and has been for a loooong time... but believe me, I've been following what they do...
My music today is a mixture of recording live takes, and some sequenced before recording them to Audio layers, but all sound selection and editing is still done via SoundDiver, so that´s a critical must for me... I HAVE to be able to make those editors...
With that said... I am going to use a few instruments live...like the Yamaha VL-70m and KORG WaveDrum GE... so maybe with time I'll have a use for Elektron gear... it is just not right now :)
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By the way... I decided to keep Poly Evolver anyways... the buyer got cold feet, and I don't seem to be able to get the price that I want for it here in Denmark... Besides... it's still such a lovely sounding machine, and does have a few uniques to it... so I decided to only rid myself of the Tempest, which really pisses me off with it's half-felt MIDI specs... I've just had too many grievances with it... so it's leaving early next month.
I'm not sure if I'll be getting the Sub37 or the VL-70m/WaveDrum first... it'll probably be the later, as I need those more right now... then Sub37 will have to wait until next year, and maybe it's wise, since NAMM is not that far away now, and because we now know that Dave has something up his sleeve for Winter NAMM...
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Allright... have been messing with a DSI synth today... tried to make it go totaly nuts, so be warned! ... don't play this too loud! :)
You may guess which DSI synth it is... I'm not telling ;D ... but it's heavily drenched in reverb...
Only one preset going on here... played live, tweaking pitchbender and modwheel...
"enjoy"
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/MoonScreamer.mp3
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Prophet 12.
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Prophet 12.
Nope ;D
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It sounds very much of tuned feedback leaving the Evolver as the only other option.
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It sounds very much of tuned feedback leaving the Evolver as the only other option.
No tuned feedback at all... but you're right... it's the Evolver :) ... it´s made with one oscillator, plus two selfoscillating filters mangled individualy (L/R)... distortion is not engaged at all... just a delay line feeding back into itself with very short delay time, and high feedback level... Also some filter frequency modulation going on... the controllers change various of theese parameters against each other which makes it go crazy... The preset was more or less tweaked until it sounded weird, so absolutely NO planning on what it would end with...
Many possibilities for these types of crazed soundscapes on Evolver... I can only dream about what is possible with the P12 in this aspect :o
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Prophet 12? Go for it! Just remember to use all five oscillators and both layers together with tuned feedback!
It did sound like you were rattling the filter frequencies or the delay line. Cool patch idea.
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Well... it's done... just placed an order for a MOOG Sub37 ... I'm now very impatiently waiting for it to arrive :D ... I'm really amazed after having read, that MOOG finaly made some proper modulation matrix functionality in their synths... until now MOOG has been not that flexible in synthesis editing... just giving you the basics along with it's pristine sound quality, but the mod.matrix options in the Sub37 is much much better than the Slim Phatty I had earlier.
The Sub37 will be my only analog monosynth in my setup, taking care of mostly my bass needs, and the occational Lead and FX/Percussion... also as source material for sampling with my V-synth GT, to see how well I can replicate it's sound, but with polyphony...
I'm also looking forward to see how the feel of the Sub37's keyboard is... I have to admit, that even though the V-Synth is splendid in that regard, I still hate Roland's aftertouch... you still have to f****** break your fingers to initiate it, and also, the pressure onset is different depending on where you play on the keyboard, so the aftertouch in my GT is basicaly useless to me... hope it's better on the Sub37.
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Congratulations, Razmo! I'll be curious to hear what you think of it.
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just placed an order for a MOOG Sub37
Wow! Its less than two months from Gearmas and you just ordered something? Me just a little bit impressed! Have to say though that its a nice machine. One old forum user said it had effectively cured his GAS for a long time so beware of the GAS Curing Dragons (TM). Anyway the only "bad" thing that could happen is that a Sub37 module shows up soon. But at least you know your GAO routine so I am not worried about that aspect! ;)
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I've been thinking about NAMM comming up, and yes, something could happen of course... though, I hardly believe MOOG will do a module version of the SUB37, mainly because we have seen a number of new things since, and they have not even ended the "Tribute Edition" yet...
Anyways, I'm going to use this synth as my main controller, if it has better aftertouch than the GT I recently bought... I have to choose which one will be on my desktop, and in that regard, the Sub37 fits better, as it is a bit smaller than the GT... thus I'll place the GT to one side instead... the thing is, that the GT has a splendid color display, where all editing of the GT is a breeze... don't really need an editor for it, so when I need to work with the GT, I can just place myself in front of it, and have all I need within reach... with my modules, I need a controller to be right in front of me, as well as my computer monitor for the editors... so... it still works, even though I will have two keyboards in the setup.
I'm getting a Yamaha VL-70m really soon too... still have one on hold for a good price, so I'm looking forward to recieving that too... and after that, I'm getting a KORG WaveDrum Global Edition... and then I'd say that my setup is nearing it's end... think I'll have space for ONE more synth, but I'll leave that space for something REALLY interresting... whatever it will be.... probably something from DSI :D ... it won't be the P6 or Pro2 though... Pro2 is too much like my P12, and the P6 is not as flexible as my P08... so even though I really want some of DSI's newer gear with discrete component filters etc. I'll simply wait until something more unique and interresting comes along...
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Well... it's done... just placed an order for a MOOG Sub37 ... I'm now very impatiently waiting for it to arrive :D ... I'm really amazed after having read, that MOOG finaly made some proper modulation matrix functionality in their synths... until now MOOG has been not that flexible in synthesis editing... just giving you the basics along with it's pristine sound quality, but the mod.matrix options in the Sub37 is much much better than the Slim Phatty I had earlier.
The Sub37 will be my only analog monosynth in my setup, taking care of mostly my bass needs, and the occational Lead and FX/Percussion... also as source material for sampling with my V-synth GT, to see how well I can replicate it's sound, but with polyphony...
I'm also looking forward to see how the feel of the Sub37's keyboard is... I have to admit, that even though the V-Synth is splendid in that regard, I still hate Roland's aftertouch... you still have to f****** break your fingers to initiate it, and also, the pressure onset is different depending on where you play on the keyboard, so the aftertouch in my GT is basicaly useless to me... hope it's better on the Sub37.
Congratulation Razmo! I'm sure you'll love your new Moog synthesizer. They're really something different and special sonic-wise. I like my Sub Phatty's keybed, I'm sure the Tribute is even better.
Regarding the whole "fucking break your fingers for aftertouch", I forgot to say thay I'm actually a pianist since I was 11 years old, and I have a very "strong touch". While it's not hard at all to achieve aftertouch on a Roland, to me, the perfect aftertouch action is the one on the DSI family.
The Moog will actually be an excellent source for sampling to the GT - just focus on not multisampling, it doesn't sound very good inside the GT and it's a pain in the ass to program.
Cheers!
PS: I'm also having a Gearmas!! Waiting for my Elektron Analog 4!
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The problem with the aftertouch is that it sets in too late... you have to press quite hard... breaking fingers is perhaps an exaggeration, but I suppose it is all about how you use aftertouch... playing a piano is not the same I think, because a piano does not have "aftertouch" per say?
Usualy what I use aftertouch for, is stuff like vibrato ... mostly... and it becomes part of your playing technique using it, thus it's a real pain when you have to press very hard to initiate it, especialy when you play fast sequences... I never use aftertouch to imply effects because I hit the keys extremely hard... besides I don't like pressing that hard... I feel I might break the keys with the amount of force needed to get max pressure output from the aftertouch.... also, in my GT, the lower I get on the keyboard, the harder I have to press to initiate the aftertouch... I'm not sure why that is... if the aftertouch strip inside the keyboard is misalligned, or it has to be played extensively to settle in properly... as it is now, the Aftertouch is useless to me, and works just like it did on the A-800 Pro to be honest... The Velocity though, is REALLY good, and sensitive.... only thing I don't like too, is that it has quite a bit of mechanical noise compared to my earlier Yamaha EX5... it makes a load of noise playing it...
So I'm actualy happy to get the Sub37... I read somewhere that it should be the same keybed as in one of DSI's synths... either the P12 or P6... don¨'t remember which, but that hints me that the aftertouch will be good... also I get a separate pitchbender and mod wheel.... while it's cool for some things on the GT, on others I hate that the mod.wheel is springloaded.
So all in all, I'm pretty well covered in controls with the combi of the GT and Sub37... I'll have separate wheel/mod and combined, I'll have soft/hard aftertouch, I've got a large X/Y pad, loads of customizable knobs on the GT, I got twin D-Beams too ... and when I get my VL-70m I have a breath controller as well... only missing a foot pedal still :D
Hope you'll like your Analog Four by the way... seems like a capable synth too :)
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@Razmo: Have you considered some of the more evolved keyboard controllers such as the ROLI Rise (https://www.roli.com/products/seaboard-rise) or the soon-to-be-available KMI K-Board Pro 4 (http://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/k-board-pro-4/) both of which are 3D controllers? There will be plenty of aftertouch on these! Only downside is that almost all DSI synths do not support 3D expression as that requires note-per-channel features.
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Razmo.
Nearing the end of your set up, huh.... I don't think that will be possible for most of us ;)
I do have to say though that I have reached a point where making use of all the instruments means greater time away from each of them individually. By time I go back in several weeks to use my relatively new Pro 2, I will have forgotten some of its operation. Unless something magical comes out of Namm I'm good for a while.
Re: Aftertouch. It always seems to me that the black keys are harder to trigger with aftertouch. This is the case on any instrument that I had AT on. So maybe it is a wear thing whereas the contacts get smoother with use - or something like that.
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I read somewhere that it should be the same keybed as in one of DSI's synths... either the P12 or P6... don¨'t remember which, but that hints me that the aftertouch will be good...
The aftertouch works fine for me, but the keyboard of the Sub 37 has nothing in common with the ones that have been used in any DSI/Sequential products. The height of the black keys feels a tad greater and overall the keyboard feels a bit more stiff, which doesn't affect the aftertouch behaviour though.
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The Sub37 will be my only analog monosynth in my setup, taking care of mostly my bass needs, and the occational Lead and FX/Percussion...
Take this to shorten the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42O1WKvA4HQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42O1WKvA4HQ)
The bass is done by the Minitaur, but all the other synth sounds come from the Sub 37 being fed through a MF-104.
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@Razmo: Have you considered some of the more evolved keyboard controllers such as the ROLI Rise (https://www.roli.com/products/seaboard-rise) or the soon-to-be-available KMI K-Board Pro 4 (http://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/k-board-pro-4/) both of which are 3D controllers? There will be plenty of aftertouch on these! Only downside is that almost all DSI synths do not support 3D expression as that requires note-per-channel features.
No... not really because I initialy did not want more than ONE master keyboard, and wanted that one to hopefuly be a useful synth that I'd use... that way I would save the space for that synth in my rack... but finding a "useful synth" with a good keybed too... well... not easy... I'd have been satisfied with the GT if the aftertouch had been more sensitive... honestly, I have sometimes thought about giving up on aftertouch alltogether, simply because of the problems finding all these criterias in just one keyboard synth.
Also... I have nothing but bad experiences with controller keyboards... they are a lousy quality compared to even keyboards of the 80's and 90's ... so I've given up on finding the solution in that department... if you want quality in the controller market, you have to pay way more than I'm prepared to pay for it.
I know that a lot of controllers recently, have poly aftertouch... but that's not really needed here... besides, those that are, are obscure new controllers, not real standard keys... and I don't want that... all I really need is a good quality keybed, with precise and sensitive aftertouch and velocity... in addition to a pitch wheel and a mod wheel... that's it... at least 61 keys... but I've not tried a controller yet, that fit all my needs... the best I've played thus far is still my old 76key EX5, but that's going soon...
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Razmo.
Nearing the end of your set up, huh.... I don't think that will be possible for most of us ;)
I do have to say though that I have reached a point where making use of all the instruments means greater time away from each of them individually. By time I go back in several weeks to use my relatively new Pro 2, I will have forgotten some of its operation. Unless something magical comes out of Namm I'm good for a while.
Re: Aftertouch. It always seems to me that the black keys are harder to trigger with aftertouch. This is the case on any instrument that I had AT on. So maybe it is a wear thing whereas the contacts get smoother with use - or something like that.
Ha ha... well... I know the GAS problem, and even my own mother don't believe me when I say that this is the end of GAS :D ... And probably she (and you) are right... but I have put a limit on myself... 8 synths at a time, no more, or things get too complicated... but I may very well swap things out over time as new GAS inspiring things get released... but I'll have to deal with that, when it's time for it :D
Right now is about getting a finished setup, because I have a bad habbit of going cold, when I do not feel my setup is complete... that means no music composed... just waiting... and I'm tired of it, so now there is a limit so that I can get my mind focused from gathering stuff, to actualy making some music.
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I read somewhere that it should be the same keybed as in one of DSI's synths... either the P12 or P6... don¨'t remember which, but that hints me that the aftertouch will be good...
The aftertouch works fine for me, but the keyboard of the Sub 37 has nothing in common with the ones that have been used in any DSI/Sequential products. The height of the black keys feels a tad greater and overall the keyboard feels a bit more stiff, which doesn't affect the aftertouch behaviour though.
Strange... I think I read it was a Fatar keybed like the ones DSI use... but it may be another model or something? ... anyway, it does not matter... I want the Sub37 for the synth, not necessarily the keybed... I'm sure I'll find it ok... I hope :)
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Strange... I think I read it was a Fatar keybed like the ones DSI use... but it may be another model or something? ... anyway, it does not matter... I want the Sub37 for the synth, not necessarily the keybed... I'm sure I'll find it ok... I hope :)
Definitely not Fatar. I've read somewhere that the brand is Huaxin and the keyboard should be identical to the one of the Novation Bass Station 2 and several M-Audio, ESI, EMU, and CME products.
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The Sub37 will be my only analog monosynth in my setup, taking care of mostly my bass needs, and the occational Lead and FX/Percussion...
Take this to shorten the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42O1WKvA4HQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42O1WKvA4HQ)
The bass is done by the Minitaur, but all the other synth sounds come from the Sub 37 being fed through a MF-104.
Nice video! ... yeah... the sound I'm after is certainly there with the Sub37... generaly I want it to be able to do those old 70's style Berlin School and Dark Ambient bass-lines... you know... really deep and boomy... I've not found other synths than MOOG's that'll do them the way I want them to :)
I'm wondering... what do you think about the Minitaur vs. Sub37 in the bass department? ... I've been using a Minitaur before, but back then I liked the sound of the Slim Phatty more, because it sounded more "creamy" ... so I got rid of the Minitaur... though mostly because of the limited playing range.
I hope the Sub37 will do as good bass-sounds as the Minitaur at least...
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Strange... I think I read it was a Fatar keybed like the ones DSI use... but it may be another model or something? ... anyway, it does not matter... I want the Sub37 for the synth, not necessarily the keybed... I'm sure I'll find it ok... I hope :)
Definitely not Fatar. I've read somewhere that the brand is Huaxin and the keyboard should be identical to the one of the Novation Bass Station 2 and several M-Audio, ESI, EMU, and CME products.
OK! ... well I've had the E-MU controller keyboards... if it's the same as those it's quite good ... I recall liking the feel of those, and also the aftertouch... unfortunately the build was plastic with really wobbly knobs I did not like... always something wrong :D
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Nice video! ... yeah... the sound I'm after is certainly there with the Sub37... generaly I want it to be able to do those old 70's style Berlin School and Dark Ambient bass-lines... you know... really deep and boomy... I've not found other synths than MOOG's that'll do them the way I want them to :)
Thanks a lot, Razmo!
I'm wondering... what do you think about the Minitaur vs. Sub37 in the bass department? ... I've been using a Minitaur before, but back then I liked the sound of the Slim Phatty more, because it sounded more "creamy" ... so I got rid of the Minitaur... though mostly because of the limited playing range.
I hope the Sub37 will do as good bass-sounds as the Minitaur at least...
They're both strong in the bass department. I mainly kept the Minitaur to free up the Sub 37 for other duties, especially when I do things live. I would say that the Minitaur's oscillators sound a tad different to me, but not in a superior way - just different. I was able to get out some good bass sounds with the Sub 37. Also, don't forget that you can always add the Sub oscillator to thicken the sound to your favor at the bottom end. Little amounts can help already.
I've done this track exclusively with the Sub 37, including drums and basses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04tH1bGkSHc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04tH1bGkSHc)
As for more creamy or softer analog sounds, it can do that as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP-yn9iifWs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP-yn9iifWs)
(Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread for shameless self-promotion, just to provide a couple of examples.)
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OK! ... well I've had the E-MU controller keyboards... if it's the same as those it's quite good ... I recall liking the feel of those, and also the aftertouch... unfortunately the build was plastic with really wobbly knobs I did not like... always something wrong :D
I would definitely describe the action as being good. It's rather the built quality that shows that this keyboard is rather on the cheap end when compared to Fatar. By that I mean that I've not yet seen a perfectly straight Sub 37 keyboard - and I've seen and played quite a few. It's either almost not or more uneven. That's about the only downside.
More than likely though, you should get one with a metal pot for the filter cutoff, i.e. an updated board.
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Nice video! ... yeah... the sound I'm after is certainly there with the Sub37... generaly I want it to be able to do those old 70's style Berlin School and Dark Ambient bass-lines... you know... really deep and boomy... I've not found other synths than MOOG's that'll do them the way I want them to :)
Thanks a lot, Razmo!
I'm wondering... what do you think about the Minitaur vs. Sub37 in the bass department? ... I've been using a Minitaur before, but back then I liked the sound of the Slim Phatty more, because it sounded more "creamy" ... so I got rid of the Minitaur... though mostly because of the limited playing range.
I hope the Sub37 will do as good bass-sounds as the Minitaur at least...
They're both strong in the bass department. I mainly kept the Minitaur to free up the Sub 37 for other duties, especially when I do things live. I would say that the Minitaur's oscillators sound a tad different to me, but not in a superior way - just different. I was able to get out some good bass sounds with the Sub 37. Also, don't forget that you can always add the Sub oscillator to thicken the sound to your favor at the bottom end. Little amounts can help already.
I've done this track exclusively with the Sub 37, including drums and basses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04tH1bGkSHc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04tH1bGkSHc)
As for more creamy or softer analog sounds, it can do that as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP-yn9iifWs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP-yn9iifWs)
(Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread for shameless self-promotion, just to provide a couple of examples.)
Thanx for the videos! ... sounds reassuring to me :)
I know about the sub on the Sub37... actualy that's one of the main reasons I did not choose the Minitaur instead, as I'm going to use the MOOG for mainly bass sounds... but I often use two detuned sawtooths, with a one octave lower squarewave... it's crucial for the deep basses I'm after.
But also, the extended mod.matrix that MOOG put in the Sub37 is kind of unique to a MOOG of this price range, and as I'm a deep editing type of guy, that made quite an impression on me as well... but I'll also be using sequencers in my gear a lot more in the future, so the build in sequencer of the Sub37 is a huge plus for me as well.
In all, I'm trying to get as much away from using a computer in my editing and playing, and more into creating stuff live, but some elements simply need tight timing... percussion and bass specificaly...
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OK! ... well I've had the E-MU controller keyboards... if it's the same as those it's quite good ... I recall liking the feel of those, and also the aftertouch... unfortunately the build was plastic with really wobbly knobs I did not like... always something wrong :D
I would definitely describe the action as being good. It's rather the built quality that shows that this keyboard is rather on the cheap end when compared to Fatar. By that I mean that I've not yet seen a perfectly straight Sub 37 keyboard - and I've seen and played quite a few. It's either almost not or more uneven. That's about the only downside.
More than likely though, you should get one with a metal pot for the filter cutoff, i.e. an updated board.
Yeah... I just read some complaints on the keybed on the MOOG forum... I hope it's not that bad as some tend to make it sound though... some say it's ok, other say it's real bad... I guess I'll just have to make my own opinion when it arrives... afterall... if I'm totaly unsatisfied, I can always deliver it back within 30 days... so it's not really a problem :)
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But also, the extended mod.matrix that MOOG put in the Sub37 is kind of unique to a MOOG of this price range, and as I'm a deep editing type of guy, that made quite an impression on me as well... but I'll also be using sequencers in my gear a lot more in the future, so the build in sequencer of the Sub37 is a huge plus for me as well.
That's true. The Sub 37 definitely offers the best price-feature-ratio when you look at Moog's whole catalog. The sequencer is simple (esp. when compared to DSI's architecture), but fun - especially features like ratchet and the ability to apply arpeggiator parameters (like octave range and playback order) to the sequencer as well.
In all, I'm trying to get as much away from using a computer in my editing and playing, and more into creating stuff live, but some elements simply need tight timing... percussion and bass specificaly...
Trust me, the Sub 37 is very rewarding in that. It's amongst the best instruments that offer a knob per function interface. It'll definitely suck you in for days. Creating new sounds from scratch is a breeze.
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I can hear by listening to your demo's that I'll be very happy indeed :) ... just that typical old-school like MOOG'ish sound that I miss in my setup... no doubt about it... even if I don't like the keys I like the sound... that's the most important right now.
Also one more thing that I REALLY like about the Sub37, is that by using the extended mod-matrix functions, I'm finaly able to make the Envelope feedback trick... that has not been possible with any other MOOG I've had... the ability to route the filter envelope to the Filter envelope's time parameters... this allow for creating more exponential envelope curves, or linear (if you need that), and it's a must have for me when designing basses...
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I've done this track exclusively with the Sub 37, including drums and basses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04tH1bGkSHc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04tH1bGkSHc)
As for more creamy or softer analog sounds, it can do that as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP-yn9iifWs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP-yn9iifWs)
These two tracks are really good. Thanks for sharing, Paul Dither! :)
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/E310U_GT.mp3
A small example of me messing with an Eminent 310 Unique sample on the V-Synth GT... I sampled all keys of the E310U when I had it, so I was currious as to how it would sound with formant control accross the keyboard... I got pretty surprised actualy, I can hardly hear much difference... totaly Eminent all the way from the lows to the highs, and I used just ONE sample for this... C-3 of the strings ensemble.
This sample-synth certainly has it's strong points... invaluable if you, like me, HATE making multisamples... the only thing the synth cannot do which irritates me, is a good sounding phaser... I want the Smallstone sound :D ... not possible with V-Synth... sounds way too weak and digital... got to put the real deal on the outs for that.
I actualy messed with some vocal sounds earlier too, and was just as impressed... the formant capabilities opens up a totaly different world of expressive vocal synthesis for me...
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/E310U_GT.mp3
A small example of me messing with an Eminent 310 Unique sample on the V-Synth GT...
Very cool. And pretty much indistinguishable, as you said.
What exactly do the formant capabilities include? – Never been a Roland guy, so that's why I'm asking.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/E310U_GT.mp3
A small example of me messing with an Eminent 310 Unique sample on the V-Synth GT...
Very cool. And pretty much indistinguishable, as you said.
What exactly do the formant capabilities include? – Never been a Roland guy, so that's why I'm asking.
Well... in essence, all there is to it is that you can encode a sample in a way that when you play back the sample at any pitch, it will keep the formants of the sample steady thru the whole keyrange... you have to use a solo sound though, since it obviously recognize the pitch and does some FFT analysis, so if more than one solo sound is happening, it can sound a bit wrong... but it's perfect for sampling solo accoustic instruments.... flutes, guitars, bells etc... and of course voices.
When you have encoded your sound, you can change the formant character by shifting it up or down... with a voice that will make it either more female or male and into extremes... but also the time of the sound is kept... so any sound with rhythmic content will keep the BPM thru the whole sound... and then pitch can also be adjusted... these three building blovks are independant of each other, and that's where the fun part lies.
But this is not all... these blovks can of course be modulated by dosens of controllers... LFO's, Keynote, Wheels etc... Envelopes... basicaly there is no limits here. This is the basic oscillator settings for a sample.
You have two oscillators you can assign like this... totaly independant of each other, and these are then combined using different algorithms like simnple mix, FM, Ringmod and other types...
This then goes thru two COSM processors... these are per voice, and basicaly they are FX engines with stuff like distortions, filters, frequency shifters, decimators etc.
Then all that goes thru a VCA, and then finaly into an advanced FX section with three multi effects.
You can also configure these buildingblocks in different routings... and on top of that, you can add something called AP synthesis which is basicaly a kind of physical modelling behavior.
The possibilities are mind boggling to be honest... you also have VA synthesis that you can choose instead of a sample oscillator with dosens of waveforms.
But that's not all... this "block" is just ONE of two... you have an UPPER and LOWER block that are completely identiccal but separate fully... this allow for splits, stacks etc...
Strangely enough, even though this synth has so much power, it's extremely logicaly laid out, and very easy to program.
I can certainly say, that this machine is truly unique... there are nothing like it in hardware that I know of, and playing with formant really puts this in a totaly different league than any other sampler... just the way you can "play" thru a vocal sample with phrases in it is incredible... you can litteraly play it a bit like scratching, even playing the phrase backwards, stop it totaly for a freeze in the middle of a wovel.
Sometimes it does screw up the encoding of some samples.. where it "hickups" between different octaves in the sound playing back... but then you have two other encoding options that allow these sounds to work anyway, but just without formant control... good for loops and huge ensemble sounds etc.
When I look at the architecture of the V-Synth GT I see many resemblances to the LA synthesis that Roland put in their very famous older synth D-50... in fact I'd call the V-Synth a D-50 make II because it has the same elements basicaly... the samples and VA synthesis is also present in D-50... D-50 also had algorithms for mixing the two oscillators via FM, ringmod etc... and then the FX sectiion.... and the fact that the first version of the V-Synth actualy had a D-50 emulator on card/built in also hints that there are references to the D-50.
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Thanks for the comprehensive answer, Razmo!
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Everyone should have a V-Synth Paul, Christmas is coming...
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Everyone should have a V-Synth Paul, Christmas is coming...
Aaaargh, but I need to finish saving up for a Prophet-6 first … ;)
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I've had the Sub37 for a few days now.... wow! ... what a sound this thing does... it sings! 8)
In the beginning I thought I had a bad unit... so much I actualy wrote support at MOOG... every time I pressed a key, I could hear that the pitch was unstable... very very subtle.... that was, until after a mere ten minutes AFTER I sent the support mail, and actualy found out (by reading the manual... bummer!), that the Sub37 has a "slop" funtion as well under the Global menu... it was set at 20 cents approx... I can hear the effect is nice and analog when both oscillators are in use, but I prefer it at zero in most cases... so there is NOTHING wrong with my Sub37 :)
If I should give a short first-hand review, I'd say that the build quality is absolutely top notch! ... even better thean the Slim Phatty I had... the knobs feel like they're bolted to the top plate, and sport absolutely NO wobblyness at all... And the travel is VERY smooth with a firm resistance that REALLY let you adjust in fine detail... a joy to use the knobs! ... also the rotary switches seems like they're quality switches... nice clicky feel to them... Buttons are solid, with a thorough "CLIK!" when pushed... not soft and weak. Mod and pitch wheel also have a nice firm flow with good resistance ... something I have to get used to, as normaly these are more easy to move on other synths, but it still speaks of quality components nonetheless.
I've not delved much into the engine yet, so I cannot give my opinion quite yet on that topic... The keys I can surely rate... I'd say they're the synth's most weak point, and then again not... I think it's a matter of personal taste here... but for me, the keys feel a bit too "firm"... it takes some pushing, to use them and that makes you tired in your arms quite quickly I think... you really have to punch the keys too, to get a stable playing style... if you're used to playing light sequences, the pressure required becomes a bit of a problem really... your timing basicaly get's f***** up! ... so I think it require some getting used to for some players, unless you're the Keith Emmerson type who bashes away on lead sounds... but the keys themselves are robust, and I've not experienced any misallignments between individual keys... I do feel though, that the black keys are raised just a tad bit too much... but I've seen other users complain about this, so I'm not surprised... Aftertouch is good... not hard to initiate as on a Roland keyboard, but it seems that it takes a little bit of extra pressure to initiate it on the black keys... probably because they are shorter than the white ones, and probably because the aftertouch strip underneath has it's contact point with the black and white keys set further away on the white keys ... that's what it feels like at least.
But all in all I'm VERY VERY happy with this synth... just the sound of it is so darn IN YOUR FACE analog MOOG'ish, the build quality lets you feel like you were driving a Ferrari or something... And then it actualy looks pretty good too.
With respect to the design, the only thing I think they should have done was to place some sort of barrier between some of the LED's under the hood... LEDs sitting close by each other seems to be lighted up from adjacent LEDS that are on, making them look "dimmed"... that probably the only thing I feel looks "cheap"... especialy when an adjacent LED is flashing... you can see the other LEDs flashing dimly too... with so much attention to other design detail, I'm wondering why they did not put some light blocking thing on the LEDs so that they only light upwards... but it's minor... not even worth thinking about, but I notice it, so I have to say it...
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Great Razmo, enjoy.
As we discussed just a few days ago...The difficulty with black key aftertouch I think effects all the instruments- at least all the ones I've tried. The reason you described makes sense.
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Congrats, Razmo! Enjoy your new trophy. ;)
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Well... the more I play on the Sub37, the more I love the sound, and the more I hate the keyboard ::)
...really... they keys are way too stiff, black keys are too raised, the travel is "spongy" and it's just simply impossible for me to play it with good timing... If they ever make another version of it, I certainly hope they'll find another keybed because it really spoils an otherwise REALLY good synth.
Luckily for me, I don't need to use the keys, as it will just be used as a module with superb physical control. Also, I found a bug regarding the use of the keyboard... When the Sub37 is set to "Local Off" mode, and is hooked up to a DAW sequencer that echo MIDI back to the Sub37 (playing the built in keybed), you get constant retriggering of notes when you release a key... it happens very often, and only when you change presets right after you have released a key... if you wait a little after releasing the key, it won't happen... it's really strange...
If you play the Sub37 via another keyboard, then there is no retriggering of notes on release... it only happens when you use the built in keybed of the Sub37... you can tweak the knobs on it, and change presets anyway you like without problems, as long as you DO NOT play the built in keybed.... if you set Local to "On" the problem goes away, but that introduce double triggering of course which is of no use...
I also noticed, that if you change presets on Sub37 right after you release keys, then the panel sometimes takes a little while to update all LEDs... sometimes they do not update at all, untill you press a key.
Luckily, as long as I use the Sub37 as a module, I won't be introducing this bug... but I've written MOOG about it anyway, since it needs fixing.
Also, I'm having massive problems getting my computer to accept a USB connection... sometimes it works, at other times it says that a device connected has malfunctioned, and at other times it just goes as "unrecognized Device"... I'm not sure if others have USB problems with their Sub37...
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Well... the more I play on the Sub37, the more I love the sound, and the more I hate the keyboard ::)
...really... they keys are way too stiff, black keys are too raised, the travel is "spongy" and it's just simply impossible for me to play it with good timing... If they ever make another version of it, I certainly hope they'll find another keybed because it really spoils an otherwise REALLY good synth.
Luckily for me, I don't need to use the keys, as it will just be used as a module with superb physical control. Also, I found a bug regarding the use of the keyboard... When the Sub37 is set to "Local Off" mode, and is hooked up to a DAW sequencer that echo MIDI back to the Sub37 (playing the built in keybed), you get constant retriggering of notes when you release a key... it happens very often, and only when you change presets right after you have released a key... if you wait a little after releasing the key, it won't happen... it's really strange...
If you play the Sub37 via another keyboard, then there is no retriggering of notes on release... it only happens when you use the built in keybed of the Sub37... you can tweak the knobs on it, and change presets anyway you like without problems, as long as you DO NOT play the built in keybed.... if you set Local to "On" the problem goes away, but that introduce double triggering of course which is of no use...
I also noticed, that if you change presets on Sub37 right after you release keys, then the panel sometimes takes a little while to update all LEDs... sometimes they do not update at all, untill you press a key.
Luckily, as long as I use the Sub37 as a module, I won't be introducing this bug... but I've written MOOG about it anyway, since it needs fixing.
Also, I'm having massive problems getting my computer to accept a USB connection... sometimes it works, at other times it says that a device connected has malfunctioned, and at other times it just goes as "unrecognized Device"... I'm not sure if others have USB problems with their Sub37...
Congratulations on your new Moog! It is certainly a beast! :)
Having both generations here, I can understand your feelings. My Little Phatty is a rock, no problems, either software or hardware related. The Sub Phatty on the other hand, had some flaws. It seems that the newer products suffer a lot more with problems than the older ones. For instance, I couldn't imagine a product like the Sub Phatty arriving uncalibrated (internally) - which it did and made me open it and adjust a trim. To me, it only means one thing: their quality control isn't the same as before.
Key-wise, unconsidering bugs, I think i'd like the stiffer keys - I'm a piano player. Good luck with the little bugs.
Cheers!
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I think that the increased bugs could probably be because they are now offering more features in the OS than previously... the Sub37 has an imense modulation addition that earlier products did not have really, and I was told that even the Voyager still has unfixed bugs...
Anyways, I've recieved reply fast from MOOG, and they've forwarded the info to Amos, who will write back to me if he needs more info on this bug... Amos has been more than helpful earlier when I wrote with him on the subject of Slim Phatty and Minitaur... even giving me specialized OS updates, so I hope to see some fixes soon... crossing my fingers... at least...
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They're currently working on the pre-release version of the new firmware and the editor. So most things should be fixed soon.
Sneak preview from a Windows user:
(http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/download/file.php?id=17189&mode=view)
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They're currently working on the pre-release version of the new firmware and the editor. So most things should be fixed soon.
Sneak preview from a Windows user:
(http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/download/file.php?id=17189&mode=view)
Yeah... I know... Andy at MOOG told me Amos is busy, and working with "tunnel vision" at the moment hehe... nonetheless, Amos got back to me today, stating he was busy, but we are now talking about this bug I found... also he promised to give me the SysEx specs very soon for the Sub37... MOOG does have one very friendly and talented employee in Amos for sure...
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MOOG does have one very friendly and talented employee in Amos for sure...
And Moog managed to hire Geert Bevin (https://twitter.com/gbevin) which is a really really smart software developer being deeply involved in development and maintenance of LinnStrument OS amongst other things. That is going to be interesting to see how that evolves over the next couple of NAMM shows.
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MOOG does have one very friendly and talented employee in Amos for sure...
And Moog managed to hire Geert Bevin (https://twitter.com/gbevin) which is a really really smart software developer being deeply involved in development and maintenance of LinnStrument OS amongst other things. That is going to be interesting to see how that evolves over the next couple of NAMM shows.
Cool! :)
I just hope that Amos will include checksum bypass in the sysex specs on Sub37 as well (if not done allready)... he did make a special OS for me when I had the Minitaur, so I hope he's just as friendly again :D
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Finaly ended my deal for a Yamaha VL-70m by the way... should be here someday next week.
I'm looking forward to delve deep into the programing of this physical modelling synth... more than 1.000 parameters make up it's engine, and when used with a wind controller iit can sound extremely organic and lifelike... mostly the presets are imitations of flutes, guitars and stringed instruments, but I'll be delving into more eksperimental programing of this to create some out-of-this-world kind of instruments.
I actualy had the VL-70m engine in the EX5 keyboard I had earlier, but I find it nice to finaly be able to have this dedicated device that only take up half a rack space, and also has socket for a real wind controller... someday I might get such a controller... but currently I only have the BC3 controller from Yamaha.
The sounds this thing does will definitely fill a niche in my studio of eight synths... it'll do what no other of my synths is capable of... so my setup is nearing it's end... next up is the KORG WaveDrum Global Edition which will take care of physical modelling of drums.
(http://www.promusic.cl/images/Fotos/Yamaha/Teclados/VL70M.jpg)
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Well.... got my VL70-m home a few days ago... nice little synth... still very unique, but it will be a nightmare to program it's many parameters... even with an editor... I know absolutely NOTHING about the structure at all :o
So I've been creating a little "doodle" instead... some Jarresque something... very much inspired... you'll hear:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/test.mp3
It's layered... Bass is Evolver (with a heavy dose of low end boost) ... Strings are from Prophet ´08 ... The rest is Sub 37 :) ... I really like the analog sound of the Sub 37... it really does have "that vibe" I've been looking for.
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I looked at getting one of those a couple of years ago, for use with a midi guitar but the second hand prices were pretty high.
Have you though of getting a breath controller for it?
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I looked at getting one of those a couple of years ago, for use with a midi guitar but the second hand prices were pretty high.
Have you though of getting a breath controller for it?
I found a good price of US$440 which is a bit lower than what they go for these days on EBAY... Regarding breath controller, I allready had a Yamaha BC3 from when I had a VL70-m many many years ago, so that problem is solved.... though, I have been considering getting a WX5 controller for it.
The magic of this box certinaly comes out of this box, when some sort of Breath controller is used... I'd say it's more or less essential if you want it to be well convincing.
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$440 is pretty good, I remember them being around the Ł500 mark when I looked so nearly twice as much. I'm very interested in how you get on with it.
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$440 is pretty good, I remember them being around the Ł500 mark when I looked so nearly twice as much. I'm very interested in how you get on with it.
So am I! :D ... I intend on buying Patchman's Turbo upgrade chip for it actualy, to get some quality voices to work with, if I decide that programing in depth is too complicated and time consuming...
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...made a few add-ons to the Jarresque track above... again, just some experimental noodlings to hear the tone of the Sub 37 in action...
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I've been fiddling around with my new Yamaha VL70-m physical modelling synth for a while, and really like the realism of this technology... it will serve my ambient fantasy pieces perfectly as I suspected... so now I'm thinking about getting the Turbo Upgrade Chip soon.
But one thing that is irritating is that it's monophonic.... that works nice for flutes, but are not very good for guitar/plucked string simulations... It would just be nice if this thing was at least 8 note polyphonic.
But I took the VL70-m in for a test today... I simply sampled a straight C4 violin sound (from the VL70-m), and then put it into my V-Synth GT... I wanted to see if the formant capabilities of the V-Synth would give me the polyphony I crave.
The result is quite good... it's not on par with the expressiveness of the VL70-m of course, but I still think it does a great job of creating the polyphony that the VL70-m cannot do.
In the following demo, the first part is the VL70-m playing... the second part is the V-Synth GT with formant control.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/ViolinTest.mp3
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Allright, this may seem weird, but I actualy bought an old AKAI S-612 sampler... It's completely oldschool 12bit sampling, in mono, and only has 128kb of sample memory, and a maximum sample rate of 32KHz.
But this sampler has a few interresting features that had me interrested... the first and foremost being, that it support MIDI Sample Dump Standard messages, which may allow me to incorporate the samples into entries in SoundDiver that I use a lot... with only 128kb of sample memory, it's not so bad transferwise.
It's really sampling at it's basic... only ONE sample can be in the machine at any time, and it has absolutely no menu diving... it's got a vibrato LFO for pitch, and a simple envelope consisting of only a decay parameter for the VCA. On top of that, a realtime (hardwired) lowpass filter knob, to smooth the sound... and then some sliders for setting sample start point and loop stuff.... just the basics.
The fun part is that on the back each of it's 6 voices can be taken out individualy, which tells me that each voice is a true separate voice... that means that mixing of the six voices is most likely analog with each it's own DAC for each voice... but the filter is also analog, though it's an overall control.
The sample can of course be played polyphonically, and it surely has that dirty oldschool 12bit grit to it. The fact that it's mono means that I'll be adding some external FX to it for live tweaking (I'm having some Dreadbox pedals in mind here).
This sampler will be doing one simple task for me... I lack the capability of playing some FX samples in my ambient compositions, and I'll be playing these live while tweaking the sound, while turning knobs etc... it is not meant to be sequenced at all.... I just needed something that would allow me to dump samples on the fly from my computer, while harddisk recording them... on the fly...
I believe this sampler will do what I want of it.... I even got one that has the pictured diskdrive with it, but I don't think I'll be using it to be honest, as I'm only going to use this in real time.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7mG_v5Sp5o
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Tried using my breath controller with the Prophet 12 today... wanted to see how it would affect the sound... if it would give some organic feel to the traditional subtractive synthesis, and I think it does... It's actualy quite impressive considdering the sound is only a simple sawtooth in unison mode... I routed breath to volume, drive, air and vibrato depth... that's about it.
Here is an audio demo of it: http://razmo.ziphoid.com/BreathTest.mp3
I'm selling my Yamaha VL70-m ... too many parameters for my liking, and I don't have the patience to learn how it works, but I'm definitely keeping my Yamaha BC3 breath controller :)
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Tried using my breath controller with the Prophet 12 today... wanted to see how it would affect the sound... if it would give some organic feel to the traditional subtractive synthesis, and I think it does... It's actualy quite impressive considdering the sound is only a simple sawtooth in unison mode... I routed breath to volume, drive, air and vibrato depth... that's about it.
Here is an audio demo of it: http://razmo.ziphoid.com/BreathTest.mp3
Very cool. Sounds good to me.
I'm selling my Yamaha VL70-m ... too many parameters for my liking, and I don't have the patience to learn how it works, but I'm definitely keeping my Yamaha BC3 breath controller :)
Wow, that was rather quick. Do you still own your Microwave, or did you sell it too?
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I sold my Microwave some time ago... and honestly, I don't really miss it.... but I do miss a modern wavetable synth with analog filters ;D
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I see. I only remembered that you went back and forth about it and couldn't get rid of it right away.
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I see. I only remembered that you went back and forth about it and couldn't get rid of it right away.
True... but I decided not long ago to only have modern analog synths in my rig... too many problems with the older ones. It was a tough decission, especialy the Microwave with analog filters, as I will probably never find one again.... though one went for sale here in Denmark not even a week after I sold mine :D
It's a marvelous machine... no doubt... but something had to go, and it "fueled" my Sub37 purchase, so I have no regrets :)
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So are you still happy with your Sub 37?
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So are you still happy with your Sub 37?
Very much... the only thing I cannot stand is the keyboard... I really do not like it... I'm using it as a module :)
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Aw, okay. I guess the keyboard is a matter of taste. I think it's okay. The only thing that really bothered me was that it took me three (!) times to get an exemplar with an (almost) even keyboard.
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On a slightly related note: I'm curious to see how the built quality of the Matrix Brute is going to be. So far, I've only heard good things from the people, who actually spend some time with it at NAMM. If Arturia gets it right, I might end up being tempted to pick one up in order to replace the Sub 37.
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I'd be interrested in the MatrixBrute also maybe... but I'll definitely not replace it with my Sub37... If I get it, it would be as an addition.
About the Sub37 keys... well... mine are actualy extremely even to be honest, but the pressure needed to play them are too much... it feels more like weighted piano like keys, and they are not good for fast runs for me... I want a much lighter feel.... also, I find that the velocity curve does not fit my playing style... it gets loud pretty fast, and I've not yet seen any place in the globals, where I can change the velocity curve... and then of course the range... three octaves are simply not enough for me, but I knew that prior to buying it, so it does not matter... I was prepared to realize, that it would only work as a module.... if they ever make a rackmount or desktop version of it, I will most likely sell it, and get that instead.
I've though about actualy getting an OB-6 as master keyboard instead... but it's so darn expensive... but OI want a Fatar keybed, and not many controller keyboards have these... they are mostly crap... this is one of my biggest problems right now.... finding a really good keyboard controller with 49 to 61 keys, that are not overly deep... preferably just the keys, a pitch and mod wheel... I don't need more, I rather need the space it would save me with such a slim keyboard.
I've been thinking about the Blofeld Keyboard... but I really don'rt like it's sound, and don't want 100% digital synths anymore... so dilemma again... that's why I got really sad that Waldorf's new Key37 was no four octaves... that would have been perfect for me...
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About the Sub37 keys... well... mine are actualy extremely even to be honest, but the pressure needed to play them are too much... it feels more like weighted piano like keys, and they are not good for fast runs for me... I want a much lighter feel.... also, I find that the velocity curve does not fit my playing style... it gets loud pretty fast, and I've not yet seen any place in the globals, where I can change the velocity curve... and then of course the range... three octaves are simply not enough for me, but I knew that prior to buying it, so it does not matter... I was prepared to realize, that it would only work as a module.... if they ever make a rackmount or desktop version of it, I will most likely sell it, and get that instead.
Nah, there is no velocity curve option. It has been requested a couple of times though. So far, you can only adjust the amount with regard to a modulation destination, that's all.
I've though about actualy getting an OB-6 as master keyboard instead... but it's so darn expensive... but OI want a Fatar keybed, and not many controller keyboards have these... they are mostly crap... this is one of my biggest problems right now.... finding a really good keyboard controller with 49 to 61 keys, that are not overly deep... preferably just the keys, a pitch and mod wheel... I don't need more, I rather need the space it would save me with such a slim keyboard.
I've been thinking about the Blofeld Keyboard... but I really don'rt like it's sound, and don't want 100% digital synths anymore... so dilemma again... that's why I got really sad that Waldorf's new Key37 was no four octaves... that would have been perfect for me...
Yeah, I hear you. When I played the Prophet-6 for the first time, I thought "this is how a keyboard should feel like." It's a shame that most manufacturers use budget keyboards, especially for MIDI controllers. You should have other good reasons though, to get something like an OB-6 as a master keyboard.
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Exactly... I want a reason to buy a synth, just to get it's keyboard... buying an OB-6, just to get at the keyboard is completely nuts.... But in my case, I'd actualy like to have an OB-6, because it will offer me something I do not allready have; polyphonic multimode filter.
But other than that, it does not offer much that I do not allready have in my Prophet '08... and more, which is why the pricetag of the OB-6 burdens me.
I actualy wish that Dave would someday create a controller keyboard series, using these high quality keyboards from Fatar... but I guess I'm dreaming...
It's just not understandable for me, that not even a single manufacturer of controller keyboards, create some simple slim keybeds, with just the essentials and using these high quality keybeds... I'm certain they will sell, because I see this wish come up in MANY threads on different forums.
Currently there are ONE manufacturer that actualy use the Fatar keybed... Native Instruments... but it is so packed with stupid integration features for Komplete, that I just do not want to pay for, and it has pressure strips for pitch and modulation... just give me the good old pitch and modulation wheel thanx!
I may end up with a Blofeld Keyboard if I do not find something soon though... temporarily until something else pops up... but I'll probably not use it's synthesis.
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The Studiologic VMK-161 Organ Plus has semi-weighted waterfall keys (Fatar TP-8O), so should be good for runs, if you don't mind the joystick bender. The same keybed can be bought from Doepfer as well.
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The Studiologic VMK-161 Organ Plus has semi-weighted waterfall keys (Fatar TP-8O), so should be good for runs, if you don't mind the joystick bender. The same keybed can be bought from Doepfer as well.
But does it have velocity and aftertouch? ... and when you say Doepfer, does that mean you can buy it as a finished controller, or just the keybed? .. .i know that Doepfer sell keybeds for electronics projects too :)
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From Studiologic's homepage on VMK-161:
"The VMK-161 Plus provides the world famous full-size 61 key TP40GH with graded hammer action keys that give you a true piano-like feeling. No other keyboard has ever achieved this level of popularity and quality – just touch it, feel it and you will love it!"
I don't want a graded hammer action keybed that feels like a piano, that's exactly what I do not like. Also it is way too deep which is a problem... I want my master keyboard right in front of me, on the desktop, and on that desktop also needs to be at least a compact keyboard (for typing) and a mouse... That's why I need the master controller to not be very deep, so that the keyboard and mouse can go in front of it, without getting too far back so that I cannot reach the keys well.
I'm actualy considering getting a Blofeld Keyboard again... It has the least amount of keys I need, it has a good reputation of being a good Fatar TP-9S keybed that is light, it has aftertouch too, and the normal pitch and mod wheel... best of all, the size is very small, and it even has space on the right side for my compact keyboard.
The only thing that has made me hesitate is because it's a 100% digital synth, and I hate having stuff that I do not use... but with some extra thinking, it does have quite a few things I lack in my studio, and that I don't know if will ever be made with analog filters/VCa etc... and that is Wavetable synthesis and Samples that can be stored on an internal flash... it is basicaly what I've been waiting for DSI to do for some time, just in the digital domain entirely, so I'll get one of those, and call it the day.
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Oh... I ordered one of these a few days ago by the way... Jomox T-Resonator mk2
It's normal use seems to be weird sound experimentation, but it seems it can be used as a delay FX as well, when used via a send on your mixer... this seems to fill the gap between a digital delay and a real analog delay... I've always liked the sound of an analog delay, but found that they degrade too much in the repeats... and digital just sound... well... digital... too clean.
This seem to give the long delays of digital, with less degradation, but still sound analog because of the analog filter in the feedback path... I'm wondering how it's chorus and reverbs will sound too... if good, I may even get another one for my mixers second stereo send, which is another good thing about this... it's stereo.
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The Studiologic VMK-161 Organ Plus has semi-weighted waterfall keys (Fatar TP-8O), so should be good for runs, if you don't mind the joystick bender. The same keybed can be bought from Doepfer as well.
But does it have velocity and aftertouch? ... and when you say Doepfer, does that mean you can buy it as a finished controller, or just the keybed? .. .i know that Doepfer sell keybeds for electronics projects too :)
Aftertouch looks to be a non-starter on the Doepfer d3m, unfortunately. I'm also convinced that a bit of wood for the base is a good thing in terms of dampening the response of the keybed itself, so I may go all-DIY on this project.
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The Studiologic VMK-161 Organ Plus has semi-weighted waterfall keys (Fatar TP-8O), so should be good for runs, if you don't mind the joystick bender. The same keybed can be bought from Doepfer as well.
But does it have velocity and aftertouch? ... and when you say Doepfer, does that mean you can buy it as a finished controller, or just the keybed? .. .i know that Doepfer sell keybeds for electronics projects too :)
Aftertouch looks to be a non-starter on the Doepfer d3m, unfortunately. I'm also convinced that a bit of wood for the base is a good thing in terms of dampening the response of the keybed itself, so I may go all-DIY on this project.
Well... good luck with that :) ... I've taken the easy road, and ordered a Blofeld Keyboard ... Hope this will finaly settle my need for a master keyboard.
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Finaly got my Jomox T-Resonator mk2... I've tested it a bit to see how it sounds when used as an FX box (AUX send/return)... I want to use it as sorts of a semi-analog delay (it has analog filters in the feedback path)... it seems to work rather well...
The thing I wanted was to be able to have brighter delays than you get with an analog delay, as well... and that works fine, since this does not use bucked brigade chips, but a real digital delay... just with an analog filter and other stuff in the feedback path.
Here's a demo with my first experiment: http://razmo.ziphoid.com/T-ResTest.mp3
There are plenty of ways to make this thing go way beyond standard delays, and you really have to be careful with the volume while tweaking it, because you can get howling feedback really easy, but it also allow for crazy cross modulations between the two stereo sides... FM crossmod, mixing crossmod and other wild stuff to make the sound really unique... and the stereofield can get rather crazy too since each side is individual, but have all these cross modulation capabilities.
I've not messed with the reverb or chorus modes yet... but I bet this unit can be used both as reverb, chorus, delay and other stuff.
The only grief I have with it is, that it does not have memories to store your settings, but I'll live...
The demo above use the same delay on all sounds...
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The Jomox T-resonator II is on my GAS list too. Not because I envision it would do wonders for me but simply because its a lovely crazy idea just like their MBrane 11 is. Two things: (1) do try and play with the waveguide settings and (2) consider getting yourself some kind of analog limiter for your lovely new speaker smasher.
And yeah, just like with modulars there are no presets. Welcome to the eurowreck world!
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Classic T-Resonator video: https://youtu.be/qlgnwZA7Cvs
Side note: Anyone noticed that Jomox have discontinued their large drum machines and just have the little stuff now? Wonder if Elektron stole the market from Jomox with the Analog Rytm? Hope Jomox are working on new designs and have not given up!
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The Jomox T-resonator II is on my GAS list too. Not because I envision it would do wonders for me but simply because its a lovely crazy idea just like their MBrane 11 is. Two things: (1) do try and play with the waveguide settings and (2) consider getting yourself some kind of analog limiter for your lovely new speaker smasher.
And yeah, just like with modulars there are no presets. Welcome to the eurowreck world!
Yeah... I've been playing with it a bit today, and surely it can make some really strange and cool sounds... but I also have to be honest with myself... I hate that it does not have memories... I mean... so many knobs, and even the slightest tweak can make it go haywire... makig it impossible to dial in again later if you found a sweet spot.
The analog feel it has on the delay is cool... but then again... you have to set both sides individualy, and making them identical is next to impossible... so it's a bit like with the MBrane11 ... it makes crazy things, but is chaotic... at least the MBrane have memories.
So... even though it sounds good... I'm afraid I'd just have it standing there, not touching the controls that much... so... yes.. .I've decided to send it back to the dealer and get my money back :)
On the contrary... i missed my Pulse 2... found a really good used price on DBA not long ago, so I'm now a Pulse2 owner yet again ::)
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Anyways... I've finaly got the SysEx info on the Sub37 :) ... Amos sent it to me, and also a new beta firmware... he's going to make a speical OS for me once again that ignore checksums tonight he said, and I also got a MIDI driver specificaly for the Sub37, so it's not using stadard Windows drivers anymore... and are now multiclient capable!... yay! ... DSI really need to up their efforts on drivers and editors... ::)
So the next days will probably be in editor-creation for the Sub37...
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Hehe! Well, I should have suspected that you returned that T-Resonator but I didn't! . o O ( GAO saturday )
As for the Pulse 2 all I can say is: A good offer on DBA means it could very well be a stolen item. Hope thats okay with you! For the same reason I stay long away from that place even though I was about to buy a used Matrix-6 via DBA quite some time ago.
Did you get your MBase11 and MBrane11 yet? Have you considered using the Pulse 2 as your kick drum synthesizer given how well it does according to your earlier tests?
Edit: Slightly detuned the DBA good offer analysis.
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Hehe! Well, I should have suspected that you returned that T-Resonator but I didn't! . o O ( GAO saturday )
As for the Pulse 2 all I can say is: A good offer on DBA means it could very well be a stolen item. Hope thats okay with you! For the same reason I stay long away from that place even though I was about to buy a used Matrix-6 via DBA quite some time ago.
Did you get your MBase11 and MBrane11 yet? Have you considered using the Pulse 2 as your kick drum synthesizer given how well it does according to your earlier tests?
Edit: Slightly detuned the DBA good offer analysis.
Ha ha!... nono, not THAT good a deal! .... it was 2.250,- in danish currency, which is a good deal to me, because I sold the one I had last time for 2.500,- ... and they are currently about 3.600,- for a new unit... I'm sure it was not stolen, simply because I've learned the tricks of finding out more about a seller... I allways ask technical questions, that only a REAL user would know... this guy even talked about sending me an editor he bought for it too, and he knew stuff only a real user would know ;) ... believe me... I'm always checking this before buying, simply because I always pay in advance, and I would not do that if I had a suspicion.
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And about the MBase and MBrane.... no... I've decided to hold that purchase a bit... because I though precicely what you just said... that the Pulse 2 may be able to take care of this, as I'm Audio recording anyway, and can use it as many times as I see fit.... and it does marvelous kicks and other percussion sounds... actualy this was the main reason I bought it again... it offers more synthesis capabilities than those drumboxes, and it also has that multimode filter I have been missing in my setup, and will make me forget about getting a Pro2 :)
I've got two keyboards... don't want more of them...
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Here's a nice one, just a Korg Volca Keys and Jomox T-Resonator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVtDguWAJEI&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVtDguWAJEI&feature=youtu.be)
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Here's a nice one, just a Korg Volca Keys and Jomox T-Resonator:
https://youtu.be/RVtDguWAJEI is indeed a nice one! Wonder if the overdriven sound was made by the T-Resonator or by the Volca itself?
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Here's a nice one, just a Korg Volca Keys and Jomox T-Resonator:
https://youtu.be/RVtDguWAJEI is indeed a nice one! Wonder if the overdriven sound was made by the T-Resonator or by the Volca itself?
I asked Matt, and here's what he said: "The distortion comes from the T-res but there's some drive added by the electribe because I'm passing it through the tribe's input, which gives it the benefit of tube saturation."
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I asked Matt, and here's what he said: "The distortion comes from the T-res but there's some drive added by the electribe because I'm passing it through the tribe's input, which gives it the benefit of tube saturation."
Thanks for the answer! Those darn tubes! I remember someone over on the old forum in the Tempest section showcased a red stereo signal path and modified tube drive box that sounded just awesome. Think I will stick with the Minifooger filter drive should I buy a such feature one day though that red box is totally drooooolable!
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Finaly!!!
I got my Blofeld Keyboard today, and was really excited to get to feel the keys... Astonishing really! ... very very VERY good feeling keys! ... Just the right weight for my playing, proper feel, proper velocity sensitivity, and perfect aftertouch.
And then the size... nice and compact, with a nice blank spot on the right side for my Pulse 2. My PC keyboard can finaly rest in front of the keys, and the Blofeld is just the right width for the mouse to be firmly to it's right, and leaving lots of desktop space on the left for desktop modules... Everything can now be in front of me... Rack gear behind the Blofeld... the only piece of gear that needs a place at one side is the Sub37.
The rack on top with the Evolver and P12 will be moved... P12 will be placed next to the Mackie BigKnob, so the wooden end cheeks will have to be put back on... Poly Evolver rack will go into the rack spaces below the top plate... the Mackie LM-3204 mixer will be replaced with a 8 stereo channel 1U line mixer from Rane soon, that will also go into the rack area... this will leave space on the top plate for a much larger monitor, maybe even a 28 inch with huge resolution, so that I can get some more "real estate" space to work with in both SoundDiver's editors, but also my DAW.
This leaves two stereo channels open for whatever someone makes of interresting gear in the future...
I'm quite happy today :)
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Time for a new rant... ;)
I recently thought that I would be able to use the feedback path in the Evoler (from the delays back into the filter) for making analog style decaying delays... but no... that's not really possible as you would normaly think. I actualy read about this in the Definitive Guide to Evolver, but obviously the author have not tried what he wrote in there, because it's not possble, and it's also quite obvious when you look at the signal chain.
The problem is the VCA and it's envelope... it closes off the signal, so as soon as you release a key, or the VCA envelope lowers the volume, so is the signal attenuated when it goes back into the filter... so no analog style delays ;)
I wondered a bit about what other uses this feedback patch actually have... My first thought was that it would have to be delays with very short delay times... choruses, phasers etc. to be of any real use, so I set out to experiment with this feedback path and see it's uses... I quickly found that it's good for plucked sounds as it makes the sound feel like some sort of "resonant chamber".
Here is the result (it's not perfect, but still a convincing sound I think, and VERY much playable):
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/CyberHarp.mp3
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Raz, before I say anything, can you elaborate on what you mean by "analog-style delays?"
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Raz, before I say anything, can you elaborate on what you mean by "analog-style delays?"
It's a bit hard to find the right wording, but in a normal digital delay, you usualy have a digital filter in the delay path... just like you do on the Prophet 12... meaning that if the delayed signal is lowpass filtered a bit, before being fed back into the delay input, then at each iteration og the delay, the delay gets a bit darker.
I initialy thought, that by using the "Feedback 2" on the Evolver's delay, that I could feed the delayed signal back into the analog filter, and that with the filter cutoff set a bit low, get these progressively darker repeats.
But the problem is, that the filter is in the "dry signal" path, and not in the delay itself... lowering the cutoff, also filters the "dry signal"... and as the VCA following the filer will totaly cut off the sound when a key is not held, you will not hear any repeats after you release the keys... unless the release time is very long of course.
On top of this, the direct output of the digital delay is allways mixed with the dry signal output... so that just adds to the uselessness of the feedback 2 parameter as well.
It's just not possible to create these analog filtered delays, as I thought (and read in the Definitive Guide)... if I've missed something, please tell me :)
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It's just not possible to create these analog filtered delays, as I thought (and read in the Definitive Guide)... if I've missed something, please tell me
Okay, thanks. Now that you've explained it as post-filter feedback, I don't see a way to do that.
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Nope... just not doable... but that's ok... at least I know it's not possible now, and the feedback2 parameter can be used for other strange things, so that's fine :) .. .truth is, that I've not looked that much into the possibilities of feedback paths on Evolver (nor P12)... but I know they can be useful for some things.
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Wanted another digital multi effects box for my ambient projects, that has a lot more modulation possibilities than a standard multi effect box... something that could modulate FX parameters in realtime via envelopes, LFO's, noise generators, envelope followers, velocity, MIDI note etc.... Did not know if such a thing existed, but it did... the T.C. Electronics FIREWORX multi effect machine.
What I like about this box is, that I can plug the MIDI out of my Waldorf Blofeld, into the FIREWORX, and then have it's MIDI Thru go to my DAW, and this way I can make sure that I get MIDI note-on/off into the FIREWORX for realtime manipulation of FX parameters... this open up a whole new world of FX creation where parameters can be changed according to key position, velocity and CC controllers.
On top, T.C. Electronics is known for professional sounding reverbs, so I'm quite happy with this one. And it's build in routing matrix allowing for the most weird routings is just incredible... you can even use one of the unused i/o plugs on the back for a "loop insert" into another FX box that will be routed back into the FIREWORX, and thus can be placed anywhere in the signal chain.
It also has a host of interesting FX... mini synthesizers, fractal noise generators, normal noise generators, filters, phasers, flangers, ringmodulator, panner, tremolo... the whole lot... all in all a really powerful FX device.
It even has ADAT i/o, S/PDIF i/O and analog i/o to choose from... this allow me to use it via my E-MU 1212m ADAT connection, and still have my Lexicon MX400 connected via S/PDIF, so that I keep everything in the digital domain... no analog convertion.
This completes my FX chain in my setup... The E-MU 1212m has a plettora of unique FX as well, and with the way I've set it all up, it is VERY powerful... I record in Audio layers these days, so I can change effects on the fly in my projects, so that they are specific for any sound I want... All synths are connected dry to my RANE mixer, that is routed directly into the 1212m for audio recording... but in 1212m control panel, I can insert any 1212m FX before recording... I can also make an insert that sent the signal out of an output, and then back in (loop like on the FIREWORX)... so I can just route the signal to either Lexicon MX400 or T.C. Fireworx as I see fit... in any serial or parallel configuration I want.
I may even get another FX box if I can find one with unique FX, and connect that to the FIREWORX S/PDIF i/o for inserting into the routing of it... just not sure what that box would be yet.... maybe Kurzweil's Mangler or similar.
(http://jp.music-group.com/TCE/Studio/FireworX/images/lrg_FireworX_persp.jpg)
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Time for adding more rant...
As I've stated somewhere else, I'm now using a Waldorf Blofeld Keyboard (black) as my master keyboard, and I'm really happy with it. Really nice Fatar keybed, and with just the minimum number of keys I can accept, leaving my desktop more compact with space for other things... I've also come to really like the amount of free presets for this beast, in addition to it's really deep engine.... yes it has some quirks like all Waldorf synths, but I rarely run into any of them... It's now my one and only synths for sample oscillators and true wavetable synthesis.
Tomorrow I'll be getting a Nord Modular G1 synthesizer... actualy the small version with 25 keys... I may swap it for a rackmount someday if I decide to keep it.
My reason for getting this is that my main music style these days are Ambient, and a few advanced digital synths are a must for this genre, and the Nord Modular G1 has more than 15.000 free presets which will serve as a huge source of inspiration besides my own creations with it.... this is something I've learned over the past year or so... I seem to use the synths with most free presets, especialy those with a style suitable for Ambient music.
But there are more reasons to get the G1... first of, you can now get the DSP option again via a third party dealer so that I can get it maxed out which is important for deep pads in most Ambient music...
Another reason is that I intend on using real accoustic instruments too, along with other accoustic sound devices, and I think that using the G1's audio input will give me some really nice options for mangling the hell out of these sound sources live via a microphone, and then further into my TC Fireworx box.
So... next week this baby should arrive:
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Nice one.
The G1 is a nice synth, next step the G2 :)
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Or this one:
(http://www.nordkeyboards.com/sites/default/files/files/products/nord-modular-g2/images/nmg2x_models-new.jpg)
;D
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A Modular G3 would be nice, although I guess that won't happen with Clavia.
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No chance at all (though I'd love to be wrong), the G2 in my opinion is the best synth ever made but they didn't sell well and cost a lot to develop. Too complicated for the average synth player.
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Yeah... I did think about the G2 as well, but I definitely will never get one as large as the one on the picture... more likely just the G2 engine ;)
I opted for the G1 though, since I got a good deal on it, and I don't really feel I need the added FX, as I like to put these on externaly... also I'm not yet certain if the G2 is compatible with all the thousands of sounds available for the G1... if it is, the G2 engine may be my next step for a swap, if not I may never go for it... the sheer amount of patches was one of the bigger reasons for getting the G1.
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There is a patch converter from G1 -> G2: https://github.com/msg/g2ools
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There is a patch converter from G1 -> G2: https://github.com/msg/g2ools
Ahh... nice... I HOPE it takes batches, because if I have to manually convert more than 15.000 patches one at a time, and can for certain say, that I'll stay with the G1 ;D
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Actually I think they are all converted somewhere on: http://www.electro-music.com/forum/
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Actually I think they are all converted somewhere on: http://www.electro-music.com/forum/
Nice... then there is a chance.... if I will ever find a used G2 Engine in the future :)
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There is a patch converter from G1 -> G2: https://github.com/msg/g2ools
Ahh... nice... I HOPE it takes batches, because if I have to manually convert more than 15.000 patches one at a time, and can for certain say, that I'll stay with the G1 ;D
Hm, that'll keep you busy for a while. ;D
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Hey, congrats on the G1!
With an instrument like this, that relies on a PC connection, do you have concerns about appropriate reliable hardware becoming unavailable, or obsolescence of a particular OS? Or do they pretty much keep the software up-to-date forever? Or is the MIDI spec such that it's easy to support?
In short, do you worry about the long-term viability of the G1?
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Hey, congrats on the G1!
With an instrument like this, that relies on a PC connection, do you have concerns about appropriate reliable hardware becoming unavailable, or obsolescence of a particular OS? Or do they pretty much keep the software up-to-date forever? Or is the MIDI spec such that it's easy to support?
In short, do you worry about the long-term viability of the G1?
well... as you probably know I am already relying on a PC connection for an even older editor program, and the day that program will not run, I'll stick with the last one that does ;)
The editor for the G1 works fine on Win10 ... I downloaded it and tried it first, so I know this ... anyway, the G1 actualy come with a notebook that the owner used for it, so I'll just use that for the editor.
Creating my own editor will NOT happen though... just the thought he he... Sound Diver will not be able to either.
Also, a third party person has actually made a new editor for it... just dont know if it's any good yet... the G1 use a separate MIDI port solely for the editing, but I have no idear if it is using the MIDI specs for this.
so no... I'm not really concerned with future compatibility... one thing people have had troubles with are MIDI interfaces not working reliably... but that can be fixed by finding one that works well.
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If you have problems with any midi interfaces you have I use midisport 2x2, works fine and they are pretty cheap.
I think any midi interface that doesn't mess around with long sysex messages should be fine.
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If you have problems with any midi interfaces you have I use midisport 2x2, works fine and they are pretty cheap.
I think any midi interface that doesn't mess around with long sysex messages should be fine.
Sound good... if it's just the dreaded "input buffer" problem of Windows it's not a problem... I intend on using either en UM-1G mkII or the built in one on the E-MU 1616m... both are extremely reliable MIDI interfaces. :)
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I actually just realized how cheap I get this G1... in US$ I'm paying 550,- ... and that is including a Lenovo notepad computer + a USB MIDI interface.
I am buying it from a good friend of mine, and I know he only buys gear in very good shape, so I'm happy... besides he just recently purchased the G2X anyway, and I believe he has the G1X as well... so he did not need his G1 with just 25 keys as well ;D
Usually his prices are fair... but when I check EBAY all are considerably higher in used price...
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That's a good price.
The prices for G1s and G2s hav been dropping over the last few years.
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Just a little messin' around with the Evolver and Fireworx FX in tandem... wait for it, it changes abruptly a little more than halfway...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/WeirdTake.mp3
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Some synth pop like riff... http://razmo.ziphoid.com/test.mp3
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/GOT_EXP.mp3
A strange synth riff I made tonight, with some of the Game of Thrones title music... Prophet 08, Prophet 12 and Poly Evolver was used among others...
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/GOT_EXP.mp3
A strange synth riff I made tonight, with some of the Game of Thrones title music... Prophet 08, Prophet 12 and Poly Evolver was used among others...
I like it.
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it's a bit too computer-like for my taste, now that I hear it again he he... anyway it was just for the fun of it...
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Wanted to try and see how the raw sound of my Blofeld Keyboard could sound yesterday, so I set out to create a pair of Ambient sounds from scratch.
One of the bad things about the Blofeld is it's build in effects in my opinion, because they muddy up the sound in a bad way, so my goal was to not use these, and only use the raw sound.
The Blofeld is now so well fixed with it's latest OS, that it seems to work reliably... I've not had any problems with it, and it really does sound very good when you know to omit those FX... It is one powerful wavetable synth for sure, being the only one in hardware I know off, that has full-single cycle waveforms, and even in 21 bits. Very soft and smooth tone.
Here is a demo of the two sounds I ended up with... I'm pretty pleased, and wil ldefinitely keep this synth as my main go-to for wavetable synthesis, and "ROMpler" sounds (it has 60mb of flash RAM for samples).
The demo sounds go thru a deep and very long reverb from my Lexicon MX400.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/AmbientTest.mp3
Also, I'm getting myself a new analog mixer very soon. A Mackie 1604 VLZ4, as I've gone back to using only MIDI sequencing... harddisk recording just does not settle with me... I like the restrictions a 100% MIDI setup gives me.
I'm trying to narrow my synth collection to be one with as many synthesis optins as possible, but also modern ones without quirks... this can be a bit of an accomplishment really, and SOME older ones is needed... at least until some company release a newer version with the same synthesis methods. Also, I strive to get ones that has a huge free sound library for inspiration purposes, and hopefully with lots of sounds meant for experimentational and Ambient genres... and of course, as much polyphony as possible, as this is key to Ambient music.
I really like the Nord Modular G1 that I got recently... that's a definite keeper as well. I actually managed to find a person willing to trade my keys version for a rack version, as I do not need the keys, so I have that one now... also I need to get the DSP option for it at some point to add polyphony.
Other than that, the synths are the same as before: Sub37, Pulse2, P08, P12, PER, NM G1 and Blofeld.
I still need to find one more synth for my last two mixer slots, one mono, one stereo... and then two more machines that will give me sampling options, and percussion.
The sampling option has been quite hard to pick because I want to be able to use it for sampling live acoustic sound sources, but to use them in an intuitive way without lots of programing like on a hardware sampler... so I'm thinking about getting a looper for this... I'm looking at the five stereo-channel BOSS looper at the moment, but need to look further into it's capabilities with MIDI.
The drums has to be a flexible drummachine, because the thing needs to be entirely selfcontained, as it will be on an AUX return on the mixer... so it MUST hold internal FX, which does not leave many choices to be honest... Tempest is out of the question... so that leaves it for Nord Drum 3P, Elektron Rytm or Machinedrum.
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The drums has to be a flexible drummachine, because the thing needs to be entirely selfcontained, as it will be on an AUX return on the mixer...
You should totally get a Volca Beats because it's the Best Drum Machine Ever Made*. If you need stereo, get two, they're cheap, and you can pan each voice with the part level controls.
I still need to find one more synth for my last two mixer slots, one mono, one stereo.
If you want my advice--which, why would you, I just advised you to get two Volcas Beats--just sit on those slots until something moves you. You've got a pretty good variety of stuff now.
* As long as you open it up and solder in a capacitor for the snare. If you don't do that, it's the Crappiest Drum Machine Ever Made.
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You should totally get a Volca Beats because it's the Best Drum Machine Ever Made*. If you need stereo, get two, they're cheap, and you can pan each voice with the part level controls.
* As long as you open it up and solder in a capacitor for the snare. If you don't do that, it's the Crappiest Drum Machine Ever Made.
Well, I'd say even without the snare mod. What doesn't make it crappy either way are the automations you can simply record with the step sequencer.
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Well, I'd say even without the snare mod. What doesn't make it crappy either way are the automations you can simply record with the step sequencer.
Yeah, the "Crappiest" comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but with a modded snare it's just killer. Also, it plays nicely with everything. DAW? Evolver? MicroBrute? Mother-32? Eurorack? Beats is all, "Yeah, I'll talk to that thing."
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Well, I'd say even without the snare mod. What doesn't make it crappy either way are the automations you can simply record with the step sequencer.
Yeah, the "Crappiest" comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but with a modded snare it's just killer. Also, it plays nicely with everything. DAW? Evolver? MicroBrute? Mother-32? Eurorack? Beats is all, "Yeah, I'll talk to that thing."
That's true. I've made a drum rack for mine in Ableton and usually play it via Push 2. I think the best sounding part of it is in fact the bass drum.
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Thanks for the tip, but the Beats is not flexible enough... I'm going to do Ambient percussion (even if it's rare), and thus needs lots of weird sounds, and reverb is the absolute critical part of this, as well as delay FX... if I did not need that, I'd actually be looking into the Tempest again, now that DSI has finally moved their asses to get it fixed, though I'd never get one until 100% sure the bugs is fixed.
And yes... I am sitting on those last two slots until something pop up... the only machine I'm hot on at the moment, is a Yamaha TX-802 for getting some serious FM going in my arsenal, and with more than 15.000 free sounds, it would fit my criteria well... but I really would like and see, if Yamaha release a Montage Rack before taking that decission... also I know Dave will come up with something I'll crave at some point, and want to save it for that... I've got this crazy feeling he might pop up some day with a new Wavestation like synth ,maybe even with sample capabilities, and I'd REALLY like to see this ;D
When it comes to that last mono-slot... well... not many options if you want polyphony or full MIDI specs... it has to be MOOG I guess... Maybe an Ambika (or Tubika as they're called now)... Maybe it will even be something modular... Don't know yet.
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the only machine I'm hot on at the moment, is a Yamaha TX-802 for getting some serious FM going in my arsenal, and with more than 15.000 free sounds, it would fit my criteria well...
TX-802 was one of the first synths I ever used; my college had a TX-802 and an M1. The TX-802 is great. 8-part multi-timbral (configurable in groups of two voices, if I remember right), very clean.
When it comes to that last mono-slot... well... not many options if you want polyphony or full MIDI specs... it has to be MOOG I guess... Maybe an Ambika (or Tubika as they're called now)... Maybe it will even be something modular... Don't know yet.
I wasn't going to mention modular, as I know of your strong preference for tons of MIDI control. If you're willing to give up some of that, it can be very rewarding. A lot of unexpected things happen.
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the only machine I'm hot on at the moment, is a Yamaha TX-802 for getting some serious FM going in my arsenal, and with more than 15.000 free sounds, it would fit my criteria well...
TX-802 was one of the first synths I ever used; my college had a TX-802 and an M1. The TX-802 is great. 8-part multi-timbral (configurable in groups of two voices, if I remember right), very clean.
When it comes to that last mono-slot... well... not many options if you want polyphony or full MIDI specs... it has to be MOOG I guess... Maybe an Ambika (or Tubika as they're called now)... Maybe it will even be something modular... Don't know yet.
I wasn't going to mention modular, as I know of your strong preference for tons of MIDI control. If you're willing to give up some of that, it can be very rewarding. A lot of unexpected things happen.
Yeah... I had the 802 a loooong time ago... also had the TX7 and DX7 make II... 802 is basicaly a DX7 mkII in rack format, and the difference and reason it sounds so clean is that it use 16 bit converters, instead of 12bit as the DX/TX7 does... it's a nice box, but the free patches is where it really shines because FM synthesis is a pain to program... even with editors. I'll see what will end up on that last stereo slot in my mixer... will probably want to wait for something completely different and new from DSI, as my Nord Modular is more than capable of doing serious sounding FM sounds.
About the modular thing... I actualy do not care for the MIDI specs missing, if it's just ONE synth we're talking about... the problem is if ALL synths had no memories and MIDI specs because then I'd have to meticulously edit every darn sound from scratch every time, which is too counter intuitive for my liking... I love to sit and tweak a non-midi analog synth to begin with in a project, but when I have dialed something nice up, I want to be able to quickly add other sounds to this, and then having to dial in a new analog would make me crazy :D
So a single modular would not be bad, or just another single-analog-synth maybe... but I would never end up with a wall of modular gear... don't have the money, don't have the space, don't have the patience for huge loads of wire spaghetti either :)
I actualy just decided to not get a looper anyway as I talked about earlier... I think I've found what I'm looking for, for sample manipulation: Roland VP-9000 .. .basicaly the sample part of the V-synth I'd say, without all the unnecessary VA synthesis and other gimmicks... will be perfect for loading in strange voices, acoustic sounds sources, rain, thunder and other nature FX... drones etc... now I just have to find one :D
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Theres one on eBay now: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/roland-vp-9000-/112010132702?hash=item1a1452fcde:g:XpcAAOSwt7pXM0uq
230 quid, seems like a bargain.
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Theres one on eBay now: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/roland-vp-9000-/112010132702?hash=item1a1452fcde:g:XpcAAOSwt7pXM0uq
230 quid, seems like a bargain.
Yes, I already saw this, and will buy it tomorrow if it's still there ;)
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Well... I bought it today anyway, so that VP-9000 is now on it's way... :)
Looking forward to messing with that sampler... I absolutely hate setting up multisamples, so I'm happy with this.
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Good Move, I was going to have it if you didn't go for it.
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Good Move, I was going to have it if you didn't go for it.
There are two more on sale, but from Japan, and 110volts... and the freight alone is rather expensive... I hope another pops up for you someday :) ... it seems like an awesome machine, as long as you are aware of it's weaknesses:
1. only 6 voice polyphony... only 3 when using stereo samples!
2. it has no envelopes at all, only a crude "fade in/out" parameter for the samples
this makes it a bit less useful for creating "instruments"... I don't even think it has any filters either... so you are 100% dependent on "what's in the sample itself".... I guess it's best described as a phrase sampler, but that is exactly what I need, and JUST that! ... it has full MIDI specs, so I'm able to create an editor for it in SoundDiver as well (though I cannot handle the samples themselves, but that's ok).
It will primarily be used for vocals, acoustic sound stuff anyway, so this is perfect... only two units high, compared to the V-Synth XT with 3U.
It is a niche instrument for sure... but it does what I need... now I'm off to see, if my box with old SIMMs should perhaps hold four 32MB RAM modules to get it expanded to 136MB :)
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Really the only reason I wanted it was that you posted here and I had a look which led to the "mmm I could get that" idea.
The Varios is another one I would be interested in, nearly got one of those off eBay more than once.
The main thing that keeps me away from old roland gear is that they stop talking to computers after a while and keeping around an old Machine/OS or using a VM just gets in the way for me.
Still I do like the Varios/Variphase stuff so who knows...
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Really the only reason I wanted it was that you posted here and I had a look which led to the "mmm I could get that" idea.
The Varios is another one I would be interested in, nearly got one of those off eBay more than once.
The main thing that keeps me away from old roland gear is that they stop talking to computers after a while and keeping around an old Machine/OS or using a VM just gets in the way for me.
Still I do like the Varios/Variphase stuff so who knows...
I looked at the VariOS as well... but as you say, it's pretty much mingled up in software, and I do not want to go down that route with old gear as well, so I fully understand you. Also, it's very important to me, that the machine can actualy sample from both digital and analog inputs... VariOS cannot sample as far as I've understood, and is more geared towards sequencing, though it CAN be used standalone I've read.
VP-9000 has both analog inputs, a mic input on the front and both optical and coaxial inputs as well... the VP-9000 is simply just a more hardware packaged thing than VariOS in my opinion.
Yes... there is two programes called V Producer, and V Trainer ... that could prove useful, but they are not needed in my case... I'll be sampling the sounds I need directly from either analog or digital inputs as I go along with a project... this allow me to create a sample library on the computer, and just play them back thru my soundcard's digital output, and thus record them on the VP-9000... then everything can be saved to either ZIP or external SCSI harddisk as a single performance.
One thing I do NOT want to start with, is incorporating SCSI to my PC again... that was what I hated with my E-MU sampler... VP-9000 must work stand alone completely...
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SCSI, enough to make me shiver!
I have an E6400 Ultra here that I failed to get working with a SCSI/USB solution so I installed an Icy Dock removable hard disk into it, then I have another dock via usb to the computer that the removable drive fixes into. I spent ages getting it all working and still don't use the bloody thing as programming it from the front panel is as much fun as bashing my head against the wall!
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I used to have a bank of SCSI drives when I had a Kurzweil K2000. The drives were third-party drives made for original Macintosh computer, so they stacked up nicely and looked cool. For an early-90s setup, it seemed pretty fast.
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SCSI, enough to make me shiver!
I have an E6400 Ultra here that I failed to get working with a SCSI/USB solution so I installed an Icy Dock removable hard disk into it, then I have another dock via usb to the computer that the removable drive fixes into. I spent ages getting it all working and still don't use the bloody thing as programming it from the front panel is as much fun as bashing my head against the wall!
Yeah... just getting it to send samples via SCSI was a nightmare when I had my E6400 Ultra... strange old drivers, snatched from some obscure older XP version was needed, along with ATAPI drivers and other strange things... hated it to be honest.
It's funny though, because actualy the ultra's display interface is the only one on any synth/sampler I have ever liked to use because I find it very intuitive and easy to use... knew it very very well since I have had that sampler since 1998 and until recently... pretty many years... but the SCSI communication was horrible... that is also why the VP-9000 will NOT be connected directly to my PC...
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Thanks for the tip, but the Beats is not flexible enough... I'm going to do Ambient percussion (even if it's rare), and thus needs lots of weird sounds, and reverb is the absolute critical part of this, as well as delay FX... if I did not need that, I'd actually be looking into the Tempest again, now that DSI has finally moved their asses to get it fixed, though I'd never get one until 100% sure the bugs is fixed.
What about this one? http://www.waldorf-music.info/en/hardware-archive/rack-attack (http://www.waldorf-music.info/en/hardware-archive/rack-attack)
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Thanks for the tip, but the Beats is not flexible enough... I'm going to do Ambient percussion (even if it's rare), and thus needs lots of weird sounds, and reverb is the absolute critical part of this, as well as delay FX... if I did not need that, I'd actually be looking into the Tempest again, now that DSI has finally moved their asses to get it fixed, though I'd never get one until 100% sure the bugs is fixed.
What about this one? http://www.waldorf-music.info/en/hardware-archive/rack-attack (http://www.waldorf-music.info/en/hardware-archive/rack-attack)
Had that one twice before ;D
It's certainly capable, has full MIDI specs that work, and sound quite allright actualy... yes... it could be that again... If I will ever find one... they are not very often for sale here in Denmark.
But honestly... the type of percussion I need for Ambient music is quite different to what I'm used to... many of the synths I need is, which I'm beginning to realize, and thus I'm changing what I use... I actualy think, that the percussion I'll be using in the future, will be more acoustic/organic sounding... I've decided to go for both samples and loops, heavily processed and mangled beyond recognition... I really don't think that neither Tempest or Rack Attack would be the best choice... rather samples, mangled in VP-9000, and maybe a KORG Wavedrum Global or something similar..
In other words... I'm not fully certain yet, and I think I'll wait getting a drummachine until I'm a bit more certain about what I really need.
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Thanks for the tip, but the Beats is not flexible enough... I'm going to do Ambient percussion (even if it's rare), and thus needs lots of weird sounds, and reverb is the absolute critical part of this, as well as delay FX... if I did not need that, I'd actually be looking into the Tempest again, now that DSI has finally moved their asses to get it fixed, though I'd never get one until 100% sure the bugs is fixed.
What about this one? http://www.waldorf-music.info/en/hardware-archive/rack-attack (http://www.waldorf-music.info/en/hardware-archive/rack-attack)
Had that one twice before ;D
It's certainly capable, has full MIDI specs that work, and sound quite allright actualy... yes... it could be that again... If I will ever find one... they are not very often for sale here in Denmark.
But honestly... the type of percussion I need for Ambient music is quite different to what I'm used to... many of the synths I need is, which I'm beginning to realize, and thus I'm changing what I use... I actualy think, that the percussion I'll be using in the future, will be more acoustic/organic sounding... I've decided to go for both samples and loops, heavily processed and mangled beyond recognition... I really don't think that neither Tempest or Rack Attack would be the best choice... rather samples, mangled in VP-9000, and maybe a KORG Wavedrum Global or something similar..
In other words... I'm not fully certain yet, and I think I'll wait getting a drummachine until I'm a bit more certain about what I really need.
I see. The Korg Wavedrum would have been the next one on my mind too.
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Fiddled a bit with creating kick sounds on my MOOG Sub37.... quite capable :)
Demo is Sub37 only... straight from the output...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Sub37Kicks.mp3
Sorry to say... but not even Tempest will do this fat and hard kick sound :P ... it's not even the filter in resonating mode, it's a single oscillator with heavy modulation from both modulators using the modulation matrix... many many colours of kicks is possible, not just this hard hitting one ;)
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Today this arrived in the mail... A SONY PCM D-100 mobile recorder... I'll be using this thing for mainly two things:
1. Recording in the field etc... I need to use stuff like sounds from nature and other acoustic sounds to make convincing Dark Ambient music.
2. Impulse Response creation... I've started using convolution reverbs, as they sound more natural, and I find making these myself intriguing and fun... as well as making weird other sounds via convolution.
This recorder was a bit expensive, and the cost a bit hard to swallow, costing almost the same as a Tetra, but I will be needing this device quite a lot, so I thought I'd go for the best from the start. It will do up to 192Khz sampling at up to 24bits, and it even samples at 2.8 megaherz as well using 1bit AD convertion... I do not know how much that will serve me, but it's there for the testing.
(http://www.boksis.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/sony-pcm-d100-full.jpg)
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Wow that looks nice!
Puts my zoom H2n to shame :(
I always like high end sony gear, just so well made.
I have a sony portable midi disk player, must be heading towards 25 years old I guess. It still works perfectly and looks like new.
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Lets just say, that I'm extremely impressed with the sound quality of this thing... really low-noise, being able to record down at -100dB ... It has all the features I need, even digital I/O, and build in 32GB storage... it's a little bigger pshysically than you would expect, but not unhandy in any way... comes with windscreen, carrying case and wireless remote.
It's very sensitive though... you simply have to NOT touch it with your hand while it is recording, it picks up everything! ... had to order a desktop tripod because of this.
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I know you aren't interested in a computer based sampling system but today I watched this video showing Ableton Push 2 sampling from vinyl. It's an interesting video. After watching it I ordered a Push 2!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0jn9s0ZLd8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0jn9s0ZLd8)
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I know you aren't interested in a computer based sampling system but today I watched this video showing Ableton Push 2 sampling from vinyl. It's an interesting video. After watching it I ordered a Push 2!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0jn9s0ZLd8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0jn9s0ZLd8)
That's what I suggested to Razmo months ago, but he prefers hardware, although I have to add that Push 2 is quite a lot of hardware to make things easy. I can understand, though, that one may not want to switch DAWs for that alone.
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Yes... I dont want computer-synths/samplers... I'm strictly a hardware guy, and is that even more today than just a couple of weeks ago.
I just have to face it... I do not cope well with harddisk based recording... I'm returning to the way I used to make music, even before my analog-GAS period... the kind of music I do today is much better off with big workhorse digital synths, that I can hook up via USB and use in multi mode, so I'm doing quite a bit of changes right now.
I need polyphony, I need Multi timbrality and I need internal FX... I'm selling my Prophet 08 and Poly Evolver... keeping my Prophet 12 though, as it does fill a particular niche in my setup, even though it does not allow more than two part multitimbrality.
My goal is that every synth must be "on it's own", and simply connected to my 8 stereo channel RANE mixer... my MX400 is used as a single reverb processor for all channels as a master FX just in case it's needed.
So I am right now looking for a few hardware things... a KORG Radias, a Nord Modular G2 engine, A Electribe Sampler 2, A Nord Drum 3 and a V-Synth XT (yes again... I know).
I prefer USB since it's much more tight when using them multitimbrally, as USB is faster than MIDI.
I still like the sound of analog, but I realize, that the only thing it's really good for in my case, is with bass... so I may end up buying two Minitaurs someday, to have them set up in stereo.
It was trhe Roland Integra-7 that made me take this route... that machine is simply incredible... I'm also considering a Virus Ti2... and even a Nord A1.
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I'm selling my Prophet 08 and Poly Evolver...
I'll happily buy your Poly Evolver Rack for 500 DKR. ;)
:o . o O ( seat jumping )
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Yes... I dont want computer-synths/samplers... I'm strictly a hardware guy, and is that even more today than just a couple of weeks ago.
I just have to face it... I do not cope well with harddisk based recording... I'm returning to the way I used to make music, even before my analog-GAS period... the kind of music I do today is much better off with big workhorse digital synths, that I can hook up via USB and use in multi mode, so I'm doing quite a bit of changes right now.
I need polyphony, I need Multi timbrality and I need internal FX... I'm selling my Prophet 08 and Poly Evolver... keeping my Prophet 12 though, as it does fill a particular niche in my setup, even though it does not allow more than two part multitimbrality.
My goal is that every synth must be "on it's own", and simply connected to my 8 stereo channel RANE mixer... my MX400 is used as a single reverb processor for all channels as a master FX just in case it's needed.
So I am right now looking for a few hardware things... a KORG Radias, a Nord Modular G2 engine, A Electribe Sampler 2, A Nord Drum 3 and a V-Synth XT (yes again... I know).
I prefer USB since it's much more tight when using them multitimbrally, as USB is faster than MIDI.
I still like the sound of analog, but I realize, that the only thing it's really good for in my case, is with bass... so I may end up buying two Minitaurs someday, to have them set up in stereo.
It was trhe Roland Integra-7 that made me take this route... that machine is simply incredible... I'm also considering a Virus Ti2... and even a Nord A1.
That's some serious hunger for modifications. A never ending story, eh? ;D
Didn't you already own a V-Synth?
And why do you wanna have a stereo bass synth? - I may be too much of a traditionalist, but I always found it much easier to deal with basses of any kind (synths and/or electric basses) in mono when it comes to mixing.
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I'm selling my Prophet 08 and Poly Evolver...
I'll happily buy your Poly Evolver Rack for 500 DKR. ;)
:o . o O ( seat jumping )
That's about $75. Is your new alias Uncle Scrooge? ;)
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Seventy-five dollars? Uh, I'll raise that to eighty-five.
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Seventy-five dollars? Uh, I'll raise that to eighty-five.
Put me down for $85 for the P08. ;)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/222175754918
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I do not cope well with harddisk based recording...
Wait...are you going back to recording on tape?
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Wait...are you going back to recording on tape?
You wouldn't believe how many people - especially from the analog modular scene - are actually doing that right now. I don't think that's what Razmo has in mind though.
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Yes... I dont want computer-synths/samplers... I'm strictly a hardware guy, and is that even more today than just a couple of weeks ago.
I just have to face it... I do not cope well with harddisk based recording... I'm returning to the way I used to make music, even before my analog-GAS period... the kind of music I do today is much better off with big workhorse digital synths, that I can hook up via USB and use in multi mode, so I'm doing quite a bit of changes right now.
I need polyphony, I need Multi timbrality and I need internal FX... I'm selling my Prophet 08 and Poly Evolver... keeping my Prophet 12 though, as it does fill a particular niche in my setup, even though it does not allow more than two part multitimbrality.
My goal is that every synth must be "on it's own", and simply connected to my 8 stereo channel RANE mixer... my MX400 is used as a single reverb processor for all channels as a master FX just in case it's needed.
So I am right now looking for a few hardware things... a KORG Radias, a Nord Modular G2 engine, A Electribe Sampler 2, A Nord Drum 3 and a V-Synth XT (yes again... I know).
I prefer USB since it's much more tight when using them multitimbrally, as USB is faster than MIDI.
I still like the sound of analog, but I realize, that the only thing it's really good for in my case, is with bass... so I may end up buying two Minitaurs someday, to have them set up in stereo.
It was trhe Roland Integra-7 that made me take this route... that machine is simply incredible... I'm also considering a Virus Ti2... and even a Nord A1.
That's some serious hunger for modifications. A never ending story, eh? ;D
Didn't you already own a V-Synth?
And why do you wanna have a stereo bass synth? - I may be too much of a traditionalist, but I always found it much easier to deal with basses of any kind (synths and/or electric basses) in mono when it comes to mixing.
The reason for wanting analog bass in stereo is because it simply sounds better, when it's two different oscillators taking each side... I believe AO also talked about this earlier... putting an analog chorus on it simply is not the same... I want a very wide stereo perspective, and it's well done this way, without strange cancellations in the frequency spectrum, and as I'm into Ambient these days, mono simply sounds boring... especialy in headphones which will be my major focus.
About V-Synth... yes... I had it before, and regret selling it... I also had the keyboard G2, but it's not multi timbral, which is crucial to me... the XT is the only one that has sort of a multi mode. I actualy bought the VP-9000 for this, but the aliasing is horrendous on this machine, compared to the XT... and it has too few voices really... so... I¨ll have to get one again at some point, because I want the VariPhrase technology.
The ever ongoing GAS syndrome... yes... I can understand why people would say that it's a never ending story... it has been until now, but I'm pretty determined this time to get to at final setup... (as I've said all the other times as well)... guess we'll just have to wait and see :)
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I do not cope well with harddisk based recording...
Wait...are you going back to recording on tape?
No... because the end listener will not have that option to play my creations back :) ... I just need to be able to mess around with recorded notes, without having to re-record everything.... also for being able to change FX, EQ etc. before the final mixdown.
I'm mixing everything in analog... and then recording the mixed two-track to computer... that's it basically :)
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And to DSLSynth: It's allready put on sale for 6.000,- DKR ... and it will definitely not get any cheaper than that considdering a new 1voice Evolver cost about 5.000,- DKR :)
And the P08 is allready on hold for next month... 7.500,- DKR which is reasonable.
What I will get instead I'm not sure about right now... it depends on what I can find of those machines I crave now...
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And to DSLSynth: It's allready put on sale for 6.000,- DKR ... and it will definitely not get any cheaper than that considdering a new 1voice Evolver cost about 5.000,- DKR :)
Oooh, I wish I had the money to spare currently, then I would have already put down a reservation request. ;)
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The reason for wanting analog bass in stereo is because it simply sounds better, when it's two different oscillators taking each side... I believe AO also talked about this earlier... putting an analog chorus on it simply is not the same... I want a very wide stereo perspective, and it's well done this way, without strange cancellations in the frequency spectrum, and as I'm into Ambient these days, mono simply sounds boring... especialy in headphones which will be my major focus.
I get your reasoning, but I guess being also a bassist I usually perceive it as a concentrated solo/monophonic voice.
About V-Synth... yes... I had it before, and regret selling it... I also had the keyboard G2, but it's not multi timbral, which is crucial to me... the XT is the only one that has sort of a multi mode. I actualy bought the VP-9000 for this, but the aliasing is horrendous on this machine, compared to the XT... and it has too few voices really... so... I¨ll have to get one again at some point, because I want the VariPhrase technology.
Wow, it must have escaped me that you got rid of it. Must have happened really quick right after you got it. The G2 must have been quite hard to come by. Those are hard to get these days.
The ever ongoing GAS syndrome... yes... I can understand why people would say that it's a never ending story... it has been until now, but I'm pretty determined this time to get to at final setup... (as I've said all the other times as well)... guess we'll just have to wait and see :)
You should never enter the Eurorack market. ;D
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The reason for wanting analog bass in stereo is because it simply sounds better, when it's two different oscillators taking each side... I believe AO also talked about this earlier... putting an analog chorus on it simply is not the same... I want a very wide stereo perspective, and it's well done this way, without strange cancellations in the frequency spectrum, and as I'm into Ambient these days, mono simply sounds boring... especialy in headphones which will be my major focus.
I get your reasoning, but I guess being also a bassist I usually perceive it as a concentrated solo/monophonic voice.
I suffer from the same experience as Paul -- being a bassist having grown up with a mono instrument. But the last project I worked on, I recorded the bass biamped (one of my basses has two output jack, one for each pickup)... and it sounds sweet. I can only imagine 2 Minitaurs! That would indeed be deep and thick.
Thanks for the idear....
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I suffer from the same experience as Paul -- being a bassist having grown up with a mono instrument. But the last project I worked on, I recorded the bass biamped (one of my basses has two output jack, one for each pickup)... and it sounds sweet. I can only imagine 2 Minitaurs! That would indeed be deep and thick.
Oh, it's not really related to suffering. I like mono voices in a mix, which is why I actually prefer mono outs on mono synths because it seems more natural to me. It can also get too muddy easily with too many stereo tracks - depending on what they're doing of course. That said, my favorite bass - a vintage Ovation Magnum - has stereo outputs too for each PU, but I would never really use it for the same reasons I think one-oscillator-bass-sounds work best in a mix in most cases - at least they're easier to deal with. All of course depends on how many tracks you're usually working with simultaneously and also what kind of music you make (after all, Ambient is more about textures than groovy basslines for example). Last but not least one can always add a little stereo flavor by adding a stereo effect or multi-tracking.
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I always run my Evolver Desktop, which is used for bass, in stereo. When experimenting with the signal, I always find that bass in mono sounds artificially hollow. it stands out like a sore thumb.
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I always run my Evolver Desktop, which is used for bass, in stereo. When experimenting with the signal, I always find that bass in mono sounds artificially hollow. it stands out like a sore thumb.
Like I said, I was not trying to argue about a right or wrong way to do it. It's a matter of style and genre in the end. As a bassist, I think of Dub, Motown, and Funk as the pinnacles of music.
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I suffer from the same experience as Paul -- being a bassist having grown up with a mono instrument. But the last project I worked on, I recorded the bass biamped (one of my basses has two output jack, one for each pickup)... and it sounds sweet. I can only imagine 2 Minitaurs! That would indeed be deep and thick.
Oh, it's not really related to suffering. I like mono voices in a mix, which is why I actually prefer mono outs on mono synths because it seems more natural to me. It can also get too muddy easily with too many stereo tracks - depending on what they're doing of course. That said, my favorite bass - a vintage Ovation Magnum - has stereo outputs too for each PU, but I would never really use it for the same reasons I think one-oscillator-bass-sounds work best in a mix in most cases - at least they're easier to deal with. All of course depends on how many tracks you're usually working with simultaneously and also what kind of music you make (after all, Ambient is more about textures than groovy basslines for example). Last but not least one can always add a little stereo flavor by adding a stereo effect or multi-tracking.
Yeah... You gotta be careful with Stereo bass for sure. But when I biamp my bass, one pickup (the neck) will be EQed to the low end with highs rolled off, and the other pickup (bridge pickup) will have the lows rolled off with effects added (chorus or flanger, maybe some delay). The two mono signals are then run almost straight up the middle -- one maybe panned a bit left and the other a bit right. OR send the neck pickup straight down the middle, with the bridge pickup about at about 10 o'clock with the delay (from the bridge pickup) panned at around 2 o'clock.
Stereo synth bass (ŕ la Razmo) could be done without being muddy since you essentially (presumably) have the exact same part being played by nearly the exact same patch (destined a bit?) with nearly the exact same timing --- this could sound really nice without being muddy (depending of course on style of music and other instrumentation).
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The reason for wanting analog bass in stereo is because it simply sounds better, when it's two different oscillators taking each side... I believe AO also talked about this earlier... putting an analog chorus on it simply is not the same... I want a very wide stereo perspective, and it's well done this way, without strange cancellations in the frequency spectrum, and as I'm into Ambient these days, mono simply sounds boring... especialy in headphones which will be my major focus.
I get your reasoning, but I guess being also a bassist I usually perceive it as a concentrated solo/monophonic voice.
About V-Synth... yes... I had it before, and regret selling it... I also had the keyboard G2, but it's not multi timbral, which is crucial to me... the XT is the only one that has sort of a multi mode. I actualy bought the VP-9000 for this, but the aliasing is horrendous on this machine, compared to the XT... and it has too few voices really... so... I¨ll have to get one again at some point, because I want the VariPhrase technology.
Wow, it must have escaped me that you got rid of it. Must have happened really quick right after you got it. The G2 must have been quite hard to come by. Those are hard to get these days.
The ever ongoing GAS syndrome... yes... I can understand why people would say that it's a never ending story... it has been until now, but I'm pretty determined this time to get to at final setup... (as I've said all the other times as well)... guess we'll just have to wait and see :)
You should never enter the Eurorack market. ;D
I get that bass is usualy best controlled in mono, but that neewd not necessarily be so... Evolvers is an example of this, and also the basses I've made for both P12 and P08 proves it, but it may be down to the musical genre as well... most ambient music does not have rhythmic parts, so there the bass has "free reign" not interfering with other bass stuff like kick drums etc... anyway, the Minitaur allow you to reset the phase of the oscillators at key-on, so it should be possible to make it "mono", by doing so.
About the G2... yes it went out quite quick. It took up too much space on my desktop, and as stated, it has no multi mode. and about modular market?... YES! ... not gonna happen ;)
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The reason for wanting analog bass in stereo is because it simply sounds better, when it's two different oscillators taking each side... I believe AO also talked about this earlier... putting an analog chorus on it simply is not the same... I want a very wide stereo perspective, and it's well done this way, without strange cancellations in the frequency spectrum, and as I'm into Ambient these days, mono simply sounds boring... especialy in headphones which will be my major focus.
I get your reasoning, but I guess being also a bassist I usually perceive it as a concentrated solo/monophonic voice.
I suffer from the same experience as Paul -- being a bassist having grown up with a mono instrument. But the last project I worked on, I recorded the bass biamped (one of my basses has two output jack, one for each pickup)... and it sounds sweet. I can only imagine 2 Minitaurs! That would indeed be deep and thick.
Thanks for the idear....
Also, all you'd need to do is connect one of the Minitaurs to the other via MIDI Thru to MIDI In (I hope it has a Thru port... can't remember). Using that method, all MIDI data sent to the first one, will be retransmitted to the second one... if they are set to the same channel then, both should react the same, even if the first one is tweaked from the front panel... as long as the presets are the same.
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I suffer from the same experience as Paul -- being a bassist having grown up with a mono instrument. But the last project I worked on, I recorded the bass biamped (one of my basses has two output jack, one for each pickup)... and it sounds sweet. I can only imagine 2 Minitaurs! That would indeed be deep and thick.
Oh, it's not really related to suffering. I like mono voices in a mix, which is why I actually prefer mono outs on mono synths because it seems more natural to me. It can also get too muddy easily with too many stereo tracks - depending on what they're doing of course. That said, my favorite bass - a vintage Ovation Magnum - has stereo outputs too for each PU, but I would never really use it for the same reasons I think one-oscillator-bass-sounds work best in a mix in most cases - at least they're easier to deal with. All of course depends on how many tracks you're usually working with simultaneously and also what kind of music you make (after all, Ambient is more about textures than groovy basslines for example). Last but not least one can always add a little stereo flavor by adding a stereo effect or multi-tracking.
I understand your reasoning on this, but Ambient is a bit different... you simply cannot get enough stereo tracks because it widens the perspective feeling when wearing headphones. Of course all should not be smeared in chorus and stereo widening, but for some tracks a stereo bass might be just what you need, especially if it's the only bass frequency source in the mix... I intend on using it for boomy basslines in Berlin School style.
Now I know that the deepest frequencies cannot be picked up by the human ear, as being directional... so of course the ideal thing would be that those frequencies would be in mono to avoid that each speaker will cancel out on each others bass frequencies... the optimal solution would be that low and high frequencies could be handled individualy, so that the higher frequencies of the bass is the only ones being separated, but that's not really possible with the Minitaur.
Also... I don't care about the cancellations because I'm aiming at headphone music here, and with those on, no cancellations will happen, as the sound of one side will have absolutely no effect on the other.
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I suffer from the same experience as Paul -- being a bassist having grown up with a mono instrument. But the last project I worked on, I recorded the bass biamped (one of my basses has two output jack, one for each pickup)... and it sounds sweet. I can only imagine 2 Minitaurs! That would indeed be deep and thick.
Oh, it's not really related to suffering. I like mono voices in a mix, which is why I actually prefer mono outs on mono synths because it seems more natural to me. It can also get too muddy easily with too many stereo tracks - depending on what they're doing of course. That said, my favorite bass - a vintage Ovation Magnum - has stereo outputs too for each PU, but I would never really use it for the same reasons I think one-oscillator-bass-sounds work best in a mix in most cases - at least they're easier to deal with. All of course depends on how many tracks you're usually working with simultaneously and also what kind of music you make (after all, Ambient is more about textures than groovy basslines for example). Last but not least one can always add a little stereo flavor by adding a stereo effect or multi-tracking.
Yeah... You gotta be careful with Stereo bass for sure. But when I biamp my bass, one pickup (the neck) will be EQed to the low end with highs rolled off, and the other pickup (bridge pickup) will have the lows rolled off with effects added (chorus or flanger, maybe some delay). The two mono signals are then run almost straight up the middle -- one maybe panned a bit left and the other a bit right. OR send the neck pickup straight down the middle, with the bridge pickup about at about 10 o'clock with the delay (from the bridge pickup) panned at around 2 o'clock.
Stereo synth bass (ŕ la Razmo) could be done without being muddy since you essentially (presumably) have the exact same part being played by nearly the exact same patch (destined a bit?) with nearly the exact same timing --- this could sound really nice without being muddy (depending of course on style of music and other instrumentation).
That is exactly the point... with this technique you get an absolutely stunningly wide stereo effect that has no beating from a chorus because the copy of the original cancel out frequencies (beating)... there is nothing to cancel out, as both sides are completely stand-alone... it gives a stereo perspective totally free of any motion.
On top of this I'm thinking about another advantage as well... getting two minifooger pedals of the same type going on both sides, would make a lot of fun as well, making the end result even more thickening. Also making tiny adjustment of difference between left and right sides will further add to the possibilities... like detuning, plus you get an option not often associated with mono MOOGs, panning options by doing variations on amplitude etc.
Also... the Minitaur also does some lead sounds that could be very useful in stereo.
Of course it's a bit expensive to get two of these, compared to how limited they are, but I really only need it for bass, and I like the small size of it, compared to having two Sub37's :D
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About the G2... yes it went out quite quick. It took up too much space on my desktop, and as stated, it has no multi mode. and about modular market?... YES! ... not gonna happen ;)
Hi Razmo,
The G2 does have multi mode it has 4 slots, so it is 4 channel multitimbral.
Cheers
Andy
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About the G2... yes it went out quite quick. It took up too much space on my desktop, and as stated, it has no multi mode. and about modular market?... YES! ... not gonna happen ;)
Hi Razmo,
The G2 does have multi mode it has 4 slots, so it is 4 channel multitimbral.
Cheers
Andy
OK? ... well I never seemed to notice this while I had it... anyway, it takes up too much space, compared to the XT, and I need to be saving space, as I'm moving in about 14 days, into a flat where I won't be having as much space as I do now :)
Besides... the only advantage of the G2 would be the added polyphony really... I dont need the AP synthesis anymore, as this is basically SuperNatrural technology in it's early stages, and my Integra-7 beats it hands down in that department.
What I want is the VariPhrase technology, in a quality better than the VP-9000, and with the added ability of having the D50 emulation, as there are so many cool free patches for the D50/550 that appeal to Ambient music quite a lot... this is not present in the G2 by the way...
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Actually maybe I am getting mixed up with the G2, I was talking about the Nord G2!
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And to DSLSynth: It's allready put on sale for 6.000,- DKR ... and it will definitely not get any cheaper than that considdering a new 1voice Evolver cost about 5.000,- DKR :)
If I had the money for your PER I would surely have bought it right away (assuming good condition and a non-smoker studio). Unfortunately I am not in a position to pay that amount of money for gear so it will have to go. Sad to see you leave the Evolver camp though.
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That is exactly the point... with this technique you get an absolutely stunningly wide stereo effect that has no beating from a chorus because the copy of the original cancel out frequencies (beating)... there is nothing to cancel out, as both sides are completely stand-alone... it gives a stereo perspective totally free of any motion.
On top of this I'm thinking about another advantage as well... getting two minifooger pedals of the same type going on both sides, would make a lot of fun as well, making the end result even more thickening. Also making tiny adjustment of difference between left and right sides will further add to the possibilities... like detuning, plus you get an option not often associated with mono MOOGs, panning options by doing variations on amplitude etc.
Also... the Minitaur also does some lead sounds that could be very useful in stereo.
Of course it's a bit expensive to get two of these, compared to how limited they are, but I really only need it for bass, and I like the small size of it, compared to having two Sub37's :D
Yes, you could also do the same thing with 2 Minitaurs that I do with 2 bass pickups... Have 1 Minitaurs tuned lower, have the other tuned higher (maybe even use a HPF to remove the lows) and run the higher one through moogerfoogers for nice effected bass sounds that aren't muddy.
... And not only are the Minitaurs smaller than the Sub37, lots of folks think they sound better. Not trying to get the MOOG people riled up... The Sub37 has wonderful modulation capabilities. But forums are full of people who agree that the Voyager / Phatty / Minitaurs oscillators sound better than those in the Sub37. Especially for bass.
Cheers!
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And to DSLSynth: It's allready put on sale for 6.000,- DKR ... and it will definitely not get any cheaper than that considdering a new 1voice Evolver cost about 5.000,- DKR :)
If I had the money for your PER I would surely have bought it right away (assuming good condition and a non-smoker studio). Unfortunately I am not in a position to pay that amount of money for gear so it will have to go. Sad to see you leave the Evolver camp though.
Well... it's not without tears, that I let the P08 and Evolver go... but I need to think carefully what machines I've got in my setup, as I decided to only have 8, and there are other machines out there, which is much more versatile than the Poly Evolver, and the P12 which I will no doubt keep cover much of it's territory and more.
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That is exactly the point... with this technique you get an absolutely stunningly wide stereo effect that has no beating from a chorus because the copy of the original cancel out frequencies (beating)... there is nothing to cancel out, as both sides are completely stand-alone... it gives a stereo perspective totally free of any motion.
On top of this I'm thinking about another advantage as well... getting two minifooger pedals of the same type going on both sides, would make a lot of fun as well, making the end result even more thickening. Also making tiny adjustment of difference between left and right sides will further add to the possibilities... like detuning, plus you get an option not often associated with mono MOOGs, panning options by doing variations on amplitude etc.
Also... the Minitaur also does some lead sounds that could be very useful in stereo.
Of course it's a bit expensive to get two of these, compared to how limited they are, but I really only need it for bass, and I like the small size of it, compared to having two Sub37's :D
Yes, you could also do the same thing with 2 Minitaurs that I do with 2 bass pickups... Have 1 Minitaurs tuned lower, have the other tuned higher (maybe even use a HPF to remove the lows) and run the higher one through moogerfoogers for nice effected bass sounds that aren't muddy.
... And not only are the Minitaurs smaller than the Sub37, lots of folks think they sound better. Not trying to get the MOOG people riled up... The Sub37 has wonderful modulation capabilities. But forums are full of people who agree that the Voyager / Phatty / Minitaurs oscillators sound better than those in the Sub37. Especially for bass.
Cheers!
Well, I had the Minitaur earlier on... I just recently sold my Sub37... Personally I think the Sub37 sounds just as good, and has many more options than a Minitaur... I also had the Slim Phatty, which sounded fatter in some way, but have other quirks.... it's a matter of taste I suppose, but if you lack a lot of space, and want two without breaking the bank, the Minitaur is the thing to get for this :)
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.... it's a matter of taste I suppose, but if you lack a lot of space, and want two without breaking the bank, the Minitaur is the thing to get for this :)
No doubt.
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Yeah, it's been a while since I wrote anything here... My studio is still going thru a major transformation into one made for creating ambient music... A lot of my analogs have been sold... Sub37 is gone, Prophet '08 is going shortly, PER has been gone for some weeks now... actualy I do not have one single synth with an analog oscillator anymore... I have kept the P12 because it's unique and I won't let that one go, but it's the only tie to DSI I have at the moment... at least until Dave decides to do a sampler synth with analog filters (if).
I do want a true analog polyphonic synth at some point, but I want one that is a lot more programable than the P6 and OB-6, and also something cheaper, as I find those too expensive for what they offer me. I bet that the one I'll get is the new Behringer... it has enough voices, it has FX build in which is CRUCIAL for my work these days, and it's deep in the engine flexibility.
I'm trading my P08 next week for a used Yamaha FS1R and some cash... I lack a fullblown and capable FM synth in my arsenal, and I do not have the patience to wait for Yamaha to throw the Montage into a 1U rack... FS1R is by all means, the most powerful FM synth in hardware... I had it before, and it will serve me well for ambient music.
I still have the Roland VP-9000... and I have actually come to like it's sound... I love the VariPhrase synthesis, which allow me to make lots of organic sounding instruments, FX, vocal phrases etc... but I still want to swap it for a full blown V-Synth XT some day... that will be my next move.
I also like the Nord Modular G1 that I've got... but I want to swap this with a G2 engine some day, simply to get the added option of using build in FX... so I hope to find one of these someday as well.
So currently my future setup would be:
Roland INTEGRA-7:
Mainly for it's SuperNatural synthesis. It's goig to be my go-to synth for orchestral and accoustic sounds, but can do practically anything so it'll be used for pads as well. This modulae sounds REALLY good.
Roland V-Synth XT: Chosen for the VariPhrase synthesis that will allow me to do a lot of different stuff... the best feature is it's ability to change pitch, timr and formant seperately in realtime, as this allow me to use solo voice samples, and create new melodies that sound extremely realistic... but it can also totaly morph and bend any sample, and do a lot of cool pads, as well as mangling drumloops etc... a truly amazing synth with lots of ambient potential.
Waldorf Blofeld:
Taken mainly for it's ability to create user-wavetables, but also it's very deep VA synthesis engine to go with it. It sounds fabulous once you start doing your own sounds, and the ability to use wavetables and samples in it's engine gives some rather unique possibilities that you find in almost no other synth in hardware... the one I know come closest is the Nord Wave.
DSI Prophet 12:
You all know this one... I'm keeping it for two resons, first reason being the really cool semi-modular approach and the second being the analog VCF/VCA. This concept sets it appart from any other synth I know, and it has vast potential. The only grief I have is, that it foes not have the FX sections of the newer P6/OB-6 ... I miss a good reverb on this, but outboard will have to do.
Clavia Nord Modular G2:
Obviously for the modular concept, which gives you endless possibilities, if you're willing to "dive in". It will be used for anything, but also as external processor for other sound sources to go thru.
Yamaha FS1R:
For the FM synthesis and the Formant Shaping synthesis. It's a hard machine to program, but it's loaded with stuff no other synth can do that will be perfect for ambient music. These machines has risen in price recently to unbelivable heights.
Behringer DeepMind12:
Chosen to get those analog oscillators in combi with build in FX and a deep modulation engine... looking forward to more info in this synth, and hope it will get a rack version as well... otherwise I will not get one.
That's it for now... I still have two slots left for something unique in the future... what that'll be I'll just have to wait and see :)
Ohh... and here is a short demo of what can be done with the VariPhrase technology... I sampled Aragorn directly from youtube, singing "Tinuviel" and created another melodyline from it... the other sounds are from Integra-7 and Blofeld.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Tinuviel.mp3
It's nothing special... just a small test I did to see where I could go with the VariPhrase technology.
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Razmo, What is this vari-phase you mention- a feature on one of these synths?
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Razmo, What is this vari-phase you mention- a feature on one of these synths?
Uh-oh... Someone is about to be lighter in the wallet.
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Razmo, What is this vari-phase you mention- a feature on one of these synths?
VariPhrase is Rolands teknology to control time, pitch and formants independently on samples... that is the short version. You can find it in the VP-9000 and the whole V-Synth line of synthesizers from Roland.
Basically, it allows you to change the pitch, without also changing the time of a sample (timestretching), and the formants (transposed samples of voices do not sound like chipmunks when played higher, or monsters played low).
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You can hear the original sample of Aragorn here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU7Hk_D2LG4
It was sampled directly from this YouTube soundclip, and then the VariPhrase technology was used to change the melody Aragorn is singing... it's done by switching on the "Robot" mode in the VariPhrase technology, which makes the pitch static and makes it sound like a monotone robot... then I apply portamento, and a bit of vibrato, which makes it sound authentic again... and then I can actually "play him" using the keys... you just have to time the keystrokes to fit the phrases... that is; you cannot change what is being sung, neither the timing of the words, but you can change the pitch by playing the keyboard.
This opens up a lot of potential for vocal stuff, but it also works wonders on samples of acoustic instruments etc.
If you do not use Robot mode, it will playback with the original pitches, but you can change the overall key it is played in, by triggering from different keys, and it still sounds natural because it keep the formants when transposing the pitch... at least within a reasonable range.
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Ok, interesting Razmo. Someday I'd like to get a hardware sampler and mess with this kind of stuff.
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Ok, interesting Razmo. Someday I'd like to get a hardware sampler and mess with this kind of stuff.
If you want formant control like this, there are not many options... VP-9000, V-Synth family, and then the strange VariOS unit... it's all from Roland.
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If you want formant control like this, there are not many options... VP-9000, V-Synth family, and then the strange VariOS unit... it's all from Roland.
I had a V-Synth GT in the past, and loved it! It is surely the best piece of hardware (build quality, keys and controls) I've ever used (and I've used a lot of synths). I sold it to fund the P08 and I kind of regret I did it.
I'm returning to this forum to ask something to you... specifically about the Prophet 12. I think that it would allow me to do some stuff like drones and textures that I could with the GT (like this video I did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzPwUzHT3BA ). Am i wrong??
I think I'm going to sell my Prophet 08 to open space for a Prophet 12. Maybe it wouldn't be the right move if I needed that standard analog 80's sound that I get from the P08, but I'm missing so much more that I need to create music...... I really miss complex pads and the 08 just doesn't deliver it. For techno and ambient music, do you think that this is a good move?
Since I got my Elektron Analog Four, the P08 just got a little less interesting. The overall tonality of the A4 is just better to me as an analog polysynth.
Cheers and thank you in advance. :)
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If you want formant control like this, there are not many options... VP-9000, V-Synth family, and then the strange VariOS unit... it's all from Roland.
I had a V-Synth GT in the past, and loved it! It is surely the best piece of hardware (build quality, keys and controls) I've ever used (and I've used a lot of synths). I sold it to fund the P08 and I kind of regret I did it.
I'm returning to this forum to ask something to you... specifically about the Prophet 12. I think that it would allow me to do some stuff like drones and textures that I could with the GT (like this video I did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzPwUzHT3BA ). Am i wrong??
I think I'm going to sell my Prophet 08 to open space for a Prophet 12. Maybe it wouldn't be the right move if I needed that standard analog 80's sound that I get from the P08, but I'm missing so much more that I need to create music...... I really miss complex pads and the 08 just doesn't deliver it. For techno and ambient music, do you think that this is a good move?
Since I got my Elektron Analog Four, the P08 just got a little less interesting. The overall tonality of the A4 is just better to me as an analog polysynth.
Cheers and thank you in advance. :)
I've had both the V-Synth XT and the GT... I miss them as well, but as I only want rackmount gear, I'm looking for an XT at the moment. Actually I'm trying to swap my P08 module version directly for a V-Synth XT... but still have not succeeded.
Regarding the P12 as an 80's machine sound, and ability to do drones, then yes... absolutely. It's the best DSI synth for Ambient music in my opinion, and it has the same Curtis filters as the P08, only the oscillators are digital.. but hybrid synths was also prevalent in the 80's so surely it can sound 80's like.
Actualy it's because of the P12's ability to do Ambient sounds that I'm keeping it... I've rid myself of all other DSI synths exept the P08 whcih is for sale at the moment as well. The P12 will easily do anything the P08 does... of course the P08 has it's own sound... a bit more analog, but in terms of complexity, the P12 should be able to do about the same... the only real thing missing on P12 in contrast to the P08 is the sequencers... a shame really, as it would be a god sent for moving textures in Ambient styles... you can use the built in Arp instead though, but it's not quite the same.
On the other hand, the P12 is way more complex... it also has build in digital delays that can be tailored to a specific preset... only thing I'd have liked was a real reverb FX in it as well... but you can do this with an external reverb box.
SO the short answer from me is yes... It'll do what you want from it... it has both the typical subtractive synthesis, it has wavetable synthesis and also FM synthesis, so it's well covered for doing Ambient sounds.
Also, the fact that it has two layers is important, as many Ambient sounds benefit from layering two sounds... and the 12 voices gives it a head over the P08, since in that case it will be a 6 voice polysynth... 4 voices can get a little too stressed especially for pad sounds.
I'd say, that if you want to do Ambient, you should find synths that has unique synthesis techniques, so that you can cover all Ambient territory... Virtual analog, Virtual Accoustic, Frequency Modulation, Sampling, Wavetable etc... P12 is unique with it's semi modular modulation matrix in audio rates, plus all the different synthesis techniques it can do. If it had sample oscillators as well, it would have been perfect...
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Oh... and then there is this irritating panning thing with the P08... the P12 can at least let you set the panning of a single voice as you want it to... with the P08 the pan destination only set the Pan Spread... the P12 can set the panning directly of each voice, which I prefer. With ambient sounds, it's important for me to have total control over the stereo perspective this way... the P12 just seem more programable compared to the P08 where you have to "cut some corners" once in a while... with P12 the things you want to do, just simply seems to "be there".
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[...] the P12 just seem more programable compared to the P08 where you have to "cut some corners" once in a while... with P12 the things you want to do, just simply seems to "be there".
You pretty much nailed and answered everything I wanted to know. I'm selling a bunch of stuff to make room for a specific setup, and I think that the P12 might be a good replacement as my "master keyboard" (meaning, my poly with decent keys and controls).
Just knowing that I can create some complex sounds like the ones in the video I've shared, is good enough to me. I kind of miss the complexity of digital synthesizers, but need the warmth of a VCF/VCA. The P12 does it all.....
Just so you know, I've been reading this topic from time to time. Interesting stuff here!
Cheers and thanks a lot!
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Got my V-Synth XT home a couple of days ago, and I'm sold.... again... this synth is such a unique machine :)
I tried to create some more manipulation of vocal recordings, and ended up with this short test-clip:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/V-Synth_Test.mp3
The pad sound is Blofeld, the bassline is P12... the voice is, of course V-Synth.
The original voice was taken from a youtube video of a woman singing something I do not understand... the video is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yGzyOwyUoI
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That is neat. So, what's the process there? It's not sampled, right? Some sort of wavetable manipulation?
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That is neat. So, what's the process there? It's not sampled, right? Some sort of wavetable manipulation?
Yes, is is sampled... The v-synth then encodes the sample... It is a kind of wavetable you could say... It stores information about every single cycle in the waveform somehow, and will then play them back a number of times according to the playback speed... It can then change the pitch independently of time... On top of this it allow for processing the cycles with formant info as well... This makes these three aspects of the sample independently controllable.... It is a very powerful control to have since it elliminates the use for multisamples and let you do some nice modulation tricks. :)
But you could compare it to wavetables, because of the single cycle control... Though the cycles vary depending on the pitches in the sample...
Noise elements is of course not cyclable... But you cannot hear it when playing at the original speed... But when you slow the speed to right before you freeze the sound, you can clearly hear the cyclings... It will let you freeze too, and even play backwards.
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Very cool example! Liked it a lot. And thanks for the explanation.
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Definitely cool. I'm into the bass patch too -- it's always cool to hear the P12 showing that it can handle great bass sounds.
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Nothing much, but it seems that Win10 is getting pretty picky with old drivers... so my E-MU 1616m will not run anymore... so I've been forced into buying myself a new soundcard. The choice fell on an RME HDSPe AIO...
other than that, I've ordered a paper-strip playing music box from China :)
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I have been messing with my Roland INTEGRA-7 today, and I'm rather impressed with the SuperNatural sounds, especialy the acoustic ones... made a short riff of the theme from Lord of the Rings... it's rather different I have to add, but kind of funny a well.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/LOTR.mp3
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Just ordered a KORG Wavedrum Global Edition and a pair of Sennheiser HD-650. Hope to get some cool human feel percussion goin' on with this :) ... examples will come once I get it.
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Be very interested in what you think of the wavedrum.
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Be very interested in what you think of the wavedrum.
Sorry for the delay on this, but I wanted to be sure the Wavedrum was something for me before starting to rave about it :)
There are pro's and con's actually, but the pro's heavilly outweight the cons.
The cons boils down to the fact that you cannot connect it to MIDI on a computer, and thus make editors for it... on top of this it has the most convoluted menu system when you want to program it.... I would REALLY have liked for this to be MIDI controllable, and send out MIDI CC data for the four sensors it has... would have been cool to use with other devices.
The reason is quite obvious though... it's made with three "microphones" that record the sound of your strikings, plus a pressure sensitive plate right beneath the center of the drumpad... the audio data is used in the DSP, so MIDI would be way too slow... but nonetheless, the slower rate would be usefull I think, for other gear.
Also... the device actually have a micro SD card inside, with all the extra samples and loops... would have been nice if it was further developed with an outboard slot for this, so you could use your own samples with it.
Another funny thing is, that it's actually capable of feedback because it records sound... you can easily make it "sing" by just clapping your hands.... and then of course, you get "confused" when you play it sometimes, because you can hear your hits on the pad, in addition to the sounds the Wavedrum makes... wotks best with headphones at high volume levels since this will drown out the noise, and also stop eventual feedback.... the feedback is a minor thing though... hardly an issue.
But the pros... the most obvious being that it is EXTREMELY dynamic to use... so much it rivals real percussion sounds many times... it senses differently depending on where you hit it, and sound different depending on both the sticks you use, and how you play it with your hands... use your palms, your fingers, your nails... everything sounds authentically different and VERY lifelike, which was EXACTLY what I wanted.
Can it do anything a sampler or physical modelling thing would not? ... yes... certainly... everything (or a LARGE part of it) is due to the way it's played and the way in which this is made part of the algorithms... You don't need to make a hell of arrangement corrections like on a sampler, to make it sound authentically... you just play the darn thing, and record it, and it sounds REALLY good and lifelike... so if you know how to play percussion tight, then this thing is a god sent for stuff like ambient, orchestral and experimental stuff.
The sounds in it are pretty good, and there are so many, you can almost find something you need... It is a keeper here, even though it has no MIDI because it will let me do percussion with a human feel extremely fast and intuitive... it lets me perform, rather than program a sampler for realism... me like!
The device has four sensors... one on each side of the rim, one right beneath the interface, and then this pressure plate in the middle... the rims have small bumps to make guiro like sounds too...
Hope that was info enough :)
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Thanks for all the info!
It's a bit of a shame that the sensor info is not sent over midi or received, that would be pretty useful.
Also a shame about the user samples.
Even though it's still on my list of things I "need".
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Also a shame about the user samples.
The micro SD slot is inside the case? Or is the card just soldered to the board somehow? This seems like a potential hack waiting for someone to do it. It would fit Korg's circuit-bending-friendly reputation.
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Also a shame about the user samples.
The micro SD slot is inside the case? Or is the card just soldered to the board somehow? This seems like a potential hack waiting for someone to do it. It would fit Korg's circuit-bending-friendly reputation.
It has already been hacked actually... there is a page on the net about this (http://elephly.net/posts/2013-08-11-hacking-the-wavedrum.html)... The SD card is INSIDE the unit yes, beneath a piece of tape covering an SD card socket... you can take it out, and read it on a computer, as it's FAT32 format.
Those who hacked it wanted to make an editor for it... but still it's pretty unusable, since it would need you to keep opening the machine, having you to also re-callibrate the pad all the time.
I bet they used the SD card for convenience when they were messing with the on board samples and loops. The Wavedrum has about 140 percussion loops that it can play along with your drumming... just would have been nice to be able to change those samples... though if you do, all the presets in "ROM" would sound weird if you replaced any of them... still, even the "ROM" presets are stored on the card... everything is... so it could probably be fixed with the proper hack.
The only way to do a good hack would be to prepare the whole device with new samples, and then write them to the SD card, once and for all... treating it as a "sampler" would be very VERY inconvenient.
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Thanks for all the info!
It's a bit of a shame that the sensor info is not sent over midi or received, that would be pretty useful.
Also a shame about the user samples.
Even though it's still on my list of things I "need".
Yes... it is a shame for sure... the device don't even HAVE a MIDI port... you have to see the Wavedrum as a LIVE performance instrument when using it... you need to be good at playing percussion ... there is no way to do any quantization here ;)
I have to add though... that for me it seems easy enough... especially when you play it with your hands, the timing is pretty good, since it is easier to have good timing with your fingers, compared to a pair of sticks I'd say... but this may just be me... I'm not a skilled percussionist, but I do have a good sense of rhythm in general, and with some practice, I think it will be allright.
The best about the Wavedrum is still, that it sounds so organic... it's sensitivity... especialy the "double DSP" engines which are physical modelling sounds awesome, and not a single hit sounds the same, which is key.... when samples are involved, you can hear the typical "static sample sound" as on conventional samplers, but the interface still allow them to be very dynamic in use anyway.
Still... I'd die for an editor... the interface is HORRIBLE! .. .I'm not even sure if I'll be doing any sounds myself because of this... maybe I'll just use the 200 presets, and call it the day.
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A short egyptian inspired riff, where I used the KORG Wavedrum, and Roland V-Synth XT only.
I'm still learning to play and record it live... but it shows how I intend on using it.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Egyptian.mp3
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V-Synth XT, Integra-7, Nord Modular G1, Prophet 12 and Blofeld in action:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/test.mp3
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Nice stuff, I like the Egyptian one a lot. The Wavedrum and V_Synth sound pretty good together :)
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Well... I actually delivered the Wavedrum back... I cannot accept the fact that it does not have MIDI control... mostly because I've gone back to doing MIDI recording rather than HD recording... I've bought a KORG Electribe Sampler 2 to replace it for drums and other stuff... not as organic and live feeling, but hey... too bad...
Here is a short riff I just did using Electribe, Pulse 2, Nord Modular, Integra-7, Blofeld, Prophet 12 and V-Synth XT... soon I'll get a used TX802 to my setup as well.
So now I'm only 1 synth from a complete setup... wonder what it will end up being...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/NewTest.mp3
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Yeah its really hard to have both expressiveness and sequencing at the same time. As for the wavedrum and its microphones being input to the synthesis engine: could be an idea to explore in eurorack or a digital synthesizer. Oh and one could record the microphone audio, time correct it and then use the audio tracks as input to the sound engine. Many creative options exist!
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Yeah its really hard to have both expressiveness and sequencing at the same time. As for the wavedrum and its microphones being input to the synthesis engine: could be an idea to explore in eurorack or a digital synthesizer. Oh and one could record the microphone audio, time correct it and then use the audio tracks as input to the sound engine. Many creative options exist!
Sure... lots of options if you know how to do the electronics for it ;)
I would have made it in another way... put a multi-channel USB audio interface into the wavedrum... that is all you would need, and that technology is already here in abundance... Next, the Wavedrum should simply send out the audio from the sensors in addition to it's processed audio output to the computer for recording via USB... problem solved... just play the recorded tracks back thru USB to the Wavedrum.
But the question is how useful it would be... the only advantage I can see is, that you can quantize the audio for tighter timing, but why would you want that? the point is the live feel of the Wavedrum, and then you could as well just record the audio output of it.
My problem with the Wavedrum is not the timing... that was what I wanted... my problem is, that I do not record to HD anymore, and then the Wavedrum have no use for me anymore, unless I just recorded live played loops on it, and threw these into my V-Synth XT for playback.
No... what I would like to see with the Wavedrum, is a built in MIDI controlled looper function that will allow you to record what you play on it, and time this via MIDI from my DAW... You may be able to do this already, with it connected to a looper pedal with MIDI maybe... have not checked for this combi.
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Hmmm... sometimes when you're experimenting with the technical stuff of your studio, you end up making something really weird that you would not normally do.... this happened today obviously... was just trying some HD recording techniques, and ended up with this weird stuff:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Weird.mp3
It's Roland INTEGRA-7 only... nothing else ...
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Finally found a used Microwave 2... I've been wanting access to it's huge library of sounds for some time. Looking forward to having this in my setup again, which also puts an end to free mixer channels... I got 8 synths now, so no more synths for me... in any case, stuff will only be swapped, if something interresting comes along in the future, that is both more advanced and has the same type of synthesis onboard.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RpdUKRdx2lQ/VbE-XZzHfBI/AAAAAAAJvdM/YbFMBufBrDw/s1600/2.jpg
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Finally found a used Microwave 2... I've been wanting access to it's huge library of sounds for some time. Looking forward to having this in my setup again, which also puts an end to free mixer channels... I got 8 synths now, so no more synths for me... in any case, stuff will only be swapped, if something interresting comes along in the future, that is both more advanced and has the same type of synthesis onboard.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RpdUKRdx2lQ/VbE-XZzHfBI/AAAAAAAJvdM/YbFMBufBrDw/s1600/2.jpg
Anything in particular about the MWII that you prefer over the Blofeld?
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Finally found a used Microwave 2... I've been wanting access to it's huge library of sounds for some time. Looking forward to having this in my setup again, which also puts an end to free mixer channels... I got 8 synths now, so no more synths for me... in any case, stuff will only be swapped, if something interresting comes along in the future, that is both more advanced and has the same type of synthesis onboard.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RpdUKRdx2lQ/VbE-XZzHfBI/AAAAAAAJvdM/YbFMBufBrDw/s1600/2.jpg
I thought you just sold the first and widely desired revision (version A rev. 1) of the Microwave not so long ago. What makes you prefer the Microwave 2?
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There are a couple of reasons I prefer the Microwave2 to both MW1 and Blofeld... I still have the Blofeld though, it's not going anywhere :)
1. The MW2 has a lot more presets out there, specialized for my genre of music (Ambient), and it is backward compatible with earlier MW1 presets... One major reason for wanting the MW2 is that I get a lot of sounds straight out of the box, without having to program a lot myself...
2. It's 100% digital, and thus does not need servicing... the MW1 I had, needed callibration inside the unit from time to time because of the analog filters, and had begun showing signs of being vintage.
3. It is considerably lower in signal/noise ratio.
4. It's synthesis engine is better (if we do not count in the analog sound of course). it has built in FX and a modulation matrix... MW1 does not... more wavetables, more space for presets and user waves.
and the reason my Blofeld is not chosen to be my only wavetable synth is that it cannot use the MW Familys presets... it does have all the wavetables, but it lacks the MW Wave Envelope among other things... also, the Blofeld cannot do interpolation inside the machine... you have to use external software to do this, and then transfer to the Blofeld... with MW2, I can quickly insert single waveforms in a wavetable, and have the DSP in the MW2 interpolate... this allow for fast changes of timbres in already made presets, simply by just changing a few waves and interpolate.... just like if you had a sampler, and exchanged samples in an already made patch.
I've had the MW2 many years ago by the way, so I know what it sounds like, and what it is capable of :)
I know that many will wonder why I of all, being so analog-happy, would want to let the MW1 go, and then get a MW2 ... but the reason is, that I simply have revised my view on analog/digital over the last year or so, having begun making Ambient instead of dance, Techno like material... I found out, over the years, that what I really like about analog, is the bass mostly, and to some extend the "dirty, wooly" sound on some leads... I really don't need analog for pads, and Ambient is mostly pad based music... also, having so many different flavours of analog is not really what I need... I need flexibility, I need FX, I need polyphony and good signal to noise ratio so that very quiet passages in my music will not drown in noise from analog gear. Thus I'm only into gear that are modern, and do not need servicing.
I have bought the Pulse 2 again... it's the only gear I have with analog oscillators... it serves me fine as analog bass, and the leads is also perfect in this box... my P12 takes care of the middle terrain.
With the purchase of the MW2, my setup is complete... for now ;)
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Have you ever considered a Wavestation A/D? I'm asking because it allows for using your own samples in the shape of PCM waves. Plus: I would also consider it to be a nice ambient machine.
More info that could be interesting for you, can be found here: http://www.chriscarter.co.uk/content/sos/korg_ws_ad.html
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Makes sense, as far as the presets go.
I sold my MicroWave II when I got the XT, and sold that on (as well as an extra microQ) to get the (extra) wavetables in the Blofeld (which I use, by the way, without the internal effects, resulting in better sound quality and less of the "nasal" quality that so many people seem to complain about). And Nave is pretty close, enough so that a patch converter between it and Blofeld is in the cards....
Also - you should check out the Presonus AR16 mixer (not rackmount, but the all-analogue signal path is substantially cleaner than the Mackie I was previously using). It, too, constrains your synth count to an available number of channels, but they're all available to Logic (or whatever DAW you're using).
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Have you ever considered a Wavestation A/D? I'm asking because it allows for using your own samples in the shape of PCM waves. Plus: I would also consider it to be a nice ambient machine.
More info that could be interesting for you, can be found here: http://www.chriscarter.co.uk/content/sos/korg_ws_ad.html
Yup.... I've had the 1U SR version earlier... it's a fine machine, but I find the samples a bit outdated to be honest... I'd rather see Dave do a new iteration of it... then I'd be VERY interrested :D
But certainly... Wavestation is a cool pad machine... just as JD-800/990, D50/550, EX5/R and many others... If I had more mixer channels, I'd certainly go for either A/D or SR version :) ... and the others just mentioned... even E-MU Morpheus...
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Makes sense, as far as the presets go.
I sold my MicroWave II when I got the XT, and sold that on (as well as an extra microQ) to get the (extra) wavetables in the Blofeld (which I use, by the way, without the internal effects, resulting in better sound quality and less of the "nasal" quality that so many people seem to complain about). And Nave is pretty close, enough so that a patch converter between it and Blofeld is in the cards....
Also - you should check out the Presonus AR16 mixer (not rackmount, but the all-analogue signal path is substantially cleaner than the Mackie I was previously using). It, too, constrains your synth count to an available number of channels, but they're all available to Logic (or whatever DAW you're using).
Yeah... I know about the Blofeld sound character... and the FX are mostly so-so... Blofeld is a really cool and very deep and capable synth... doing a mix of synthesis options no other synth really offer (exept for maybe the Nord Wave)... I like the idear of interconnecting VA, FM, Wavetable and sampling synthesis in the same sound preset... gives so many options, but I'd prefer a true wavetable synth for what it does, which is why I took the MW2... besides I got it rather cheap compared to current prices... about 360 dollars, and it has even had it's encoders cleaned and is 100% working.
Regarding mixer channels... I'm using a rather expensive 1U rack-mixer for compactness... a RANE SM82S, and I'm really happy with it... I don't want or need EQ and a hoarde of AUX sends... that's why I intended on having so many digital synths because they include their own FX, and EQ... I have a single stereo AUX send/return on it, which I use for reverb (which is crucial for Ambient, and most built in on synths are not high quality enough for me, so I'm planning on a Lexicon PCM92).
What always irritated me on analog mixers is that they are mono channels... i know you can pair them up and pan L/R, but I hate to do everything twice... I want a STEREO mixer... and they only come in rack versions mostly... all my synths are stereo... not mono...
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Have you ever considered a Wavestation A/D? I'm asking because it allows for using your own samples in the shape of PCM waves. Plus: I would also consider it to be a nice ambient machine.
More info that could be interesting for you, can be found here: http://www.chriscarter.co.uk/content/sos/korg_ws_ad.html
Yup.... I've had the 1U SR version earlier... it's a fine machine, but I find the samples a bit outdated to be honest... I'd rather see Dave do a new iteration of it... then I'd be VERY interrested :D
But certainly... Wavestation is a cool pad machine... just as JD-800/990, D50/550, EX5/R and many others... If I had more mixer channels, I'd certainly go for either A/D or SR version :) ... and the others just mentioned... even E-MU Morpheus...
Yeah, I was referring to the A/D because it's a bit more flexible in terms of input options. But you're right about the outdatedness of some of the waves. It's probably most timeless if one uses the particularly digital sounding waves like the VS ones, and not rhythmic sequences that utilize the dedicated percussion waves, nor sounds that try to approximate natural instruments.
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PS: The just released iWavestation makes editing wave sequences a breeze, but it's a shame that it can't be used as an editor for the hardware version or that you can't send a SysEx dump from it to the hardware.
It has a cool random patch generator feature though, that can be used as a starting point for new wave sequences.
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Regarding mixer channels... I'm using a rather expensive 1U rack-mixer for compactness... a RANE SM82S, and I'm really happy with it... I don't want or need EQ and a hoarde of AUX sends... that's why I intended on having so many digital synths because they include their own FX, and EQ... I have a single stereo AUX send/return on it, which I use for reverb (which is crucial for Ambient, and most built in on synths are not high quality enough for me, so I'm planning on a Lexicon PCM92).
What always irritated me on analog mixers is that they are mono channels... i know you can pair them up and pan L/R, but I hate to do everything twice... I want a STEREO mixer... and they only come in rack versions mostly... all my synths are stereo... not mono...
Ahh, that's right - you swapped out the Mackie some time ago. I do like the Rane's simplicity, and in reality, I'd agree that a single ambient effect processor is sufficient for most purposes (I generally mute mine when doing any sound design).
Also - I do find that a switchable low-cut filter goes a long way.
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Regarding mixer channels... I'm using a rather expensive 1U rack-mixer for compactness... a RANE SM82S, and I'm really happy with it... I don't want or need EQ and a hoarde of AUX sends... that's why I intended on having so many digital synths because they include their own FX, and EQ... I have a single stereo AUX send/return on it, which I use for reverb (which is crucial for Ambient, and most built in on synths are not high quality enough for me, so I'm planning on a Lexicon PCM92).
What always irritated me on analog mixers is that they are mono channels... i know you can pair them up and pan L/R, but I hate to do everything twice... I want a STEREO mixer... and they only come in rack versions mostly... all my synths are stereo... not mono...
Ahh, that's right - you swapped out the Mackie some time ago. I do like the Rane's simplicity, and in reality, I'd agree that a single ambient effect processor is sufficient for most purposes (I generally mute mine when doing any sound design).
Also - I do find that a switchable low-cut filter goes a long way.
I agree... the only thing I miss on the mixer is a simple low-cut, to stop the mix from getting muddy... a great deal of my synths have build in EQ though, but a few do not... so it puts a test on my skills to tweak the sound instead sometimes, or choose the presets carefully so that there is not too much low-end in them... but then again.. .I found this problem worse when kick and bass are involved in dance music, in contrast to Ambient which is a lot less percussive... it's like it does not matter much if some sounds overlap, it only adds to the "swirl and twirl" of pad sounds :)
The RANE can be cascaded though... and I've been seriously considering finding another unit... but on the other hand, I've got enough sound sources now... I do not NEED anymore... only WANT more :D ... The thing I like about the RANE mixer is, that every input has a special circuitry, that eliminate the need for switches that set the input stage for consumer og pro gear output... the channels does not amplify the mixers own noise, even when you turn the volumes all the way up for an additional 6db of gain... it's dead quiet on the output, no matter if the volume knobs are all zero, or all full +6dB boost. It's also very transparent in it's sound... so I'm happy with this mixer.
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Due to the recently published (not leaked) rendering of the Wave II design, Axel Hartmann shared the original brochure for the Wave II from 2002 with the editors of Amazona.de:
(https://www.amazona.de/wp-content/uploads/2030/01/w2_pre_page_1.jpg)
(https://www.amazona.de/wp-content/uploads/2030/01/w2_pre_page_2.jpg)
(https://www.amazona.de/wp-content/uploads/2030/01/w2_pre_page_3.jpg)
(https://www.amazona.de/wp-content/uploads/2030/01/w2_pre_page_4.jpg)
(https://www.amazona.de/wp-content/uploads/2030/01/w2_pre_page_5.jpg)
(https://www.amazona.de/wp-content/uploads/2030/01/w2_pre_page_6.jpg)
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I actually saw this render earlier today on another music forum... but it's just Waldorf's usual vaporware, though, if it ever become reality, and can be bought be mere humans, I'm in to trade the MW2 for it :D
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I guess you'd have to trade in a couple of MW2s for this particular design.
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It is interesting, given the past tense in reference to the microQ, that this would have been an ongoing project at the time of Waldorf Music AG's demise.
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It is interesting, given the past tense in reference to the microQ, that this would have been an ongoing project at the time of Waldorf Music AG's demise.
The microQs came out in 2000 and 2001, so it makes sense, as this is from the year after.
It would certainly still be an exciting product, although they'd have to modify a couple of things: the display for example, because it's from pre-iPad times. And today's version would of course offer USB. Thunderbolt could also be an option.
The left hand controller is definitely interesting. I would certainly be curious to see how well it works in practice.
I think the more pragmatic way to go about it would be a less eccentric design and a more portable form factor. The brochure more or less indicates that it's just a studio instrument. A 61 keys version with something like 8 to 12 voice polyphony could actually lead to an affordable option instead of just another 20k project.
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And please... a more purchase friendly design... I don't want to spend god knows how much, just to have a god damned glass front, that would very likely end up being broken at some point... affordable please! ... I don't mean CHEAP... just AFFORDABLE!
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And please... a more purchase friendly design... I don't want to spend god knows how much, just to have a god damned glass front, that would very likely end up being broken at some point... affordable please! ... I don't mean CHEAP... just AFFORDABLE!
I believe that's what the Stromberg was intended to be, and what (further down the cost spiral) the Blofeld became (less analogue filter sections / plugin modules).
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Well... the TX802 I just bought was damaged in freight... so it is going back to the seller unfortunately... so I've invested a little more, and will recieve a Yamaha FS1R next week... suits me allright actually, since it's also DX7 compatible... sound is a bit more cold, but it has built in FX, and a lot more advanced engine for Ambient styles which is my goal.
These synths are a bit pricey these days, but still got it for a lot less than what they go for on EBAY, and it has the latest firmware already and in a good shape.
This is two rather cool digital synths found within a single week for a good price, and that fits a few niches in synthesis in my setup. Very happy with these two... had both before, and know them inside out... this time they HAVE to stay. :)
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Well... the TX802 I just bought was damaged in freight... so it is going back to the seller unfortunately...
That's disappointing about the TX802, but it's great that you found an FS1r instead.
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I've decided to switch to software plugs for FX in my projects... sĺ I've invested in ValhallaDSP Shimmer today... here is a short demo of an old Commodore 64 classic made with Shimmer.... instruments are INTEGRA-7 and Nord Modular.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Test.mp3
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I've decided to switch to software plugs for FX in my projects... sĺ I've invested in ValhallaDSP Shimmer today... here is a short demo of an old Commodore 64 classic made with Shimmer.... instruments are INTEGRA-7 and Nord Modular.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Test.mp3
It's a good choice. The Valhalla DSP plug-ins are my favorites when it comes to reverbs and halls. Have been using Room, VintageVerb, and Shimmer for about three years now.
Not sure about your delay needs, but I found u-he's Satin to be a really cool tape delay emulation, which also makes for a nice chorus and flanger.
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I've decided to switch to software plugs for FX in my projects... sĺ I've invested in ValhallaDSP Shimmer today... here is a short demo of an old Commodore 64 classic made with Shimmer.... instruments are INTEGRA-7 and Nord Modular.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Test.mp3
It's a good choice. The Valhalla DSP plug-ins are my favorites when it comes to reverbs and halls. Have been using Room, VintageVerb, and Shimmer for about three years now.
Not sure about your delay needs, but I found u-he's Satin to be a really cool tape delay emulation, which also makes for a nice chorus and flanger.
Thanx, I'll check those out because I surely will need a pro delay plugin soon... :) ... I like the price of the Shimmer plug by the way... pretty cheap I think?
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Thanx, I'll check those out because I surely will need a pro delay plugin soon... :) ... I like the price of the Shimmer plug by the way... pretty cheap I think?
Yeah, they're really well prized. Here's a link to Satin: https://www.u-he.com/cms/satin
It's more expensive, but you can always check out the demo first.
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I decided to get one of these older Proteus 2000 modules, so that I would get access to it's huge amount af Z-Plane filters. First I was searching for a Morpheus, but they are rare these days, end pretty expensive in comparison to the P2000 family of ROMplers.
http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/e-mu-proteus-2000-715299.jpg
I intend on using it's deep editing features with it's 4 layer setup, for creating really huge pad sounds. I got 128 voices on this one, so it should give some rather cool possibilities, especially with the over 50 types af Z-Plane filters.
These ROMplers engine is really something... it's basically an E-MU E4 Ultra engine, but with a lot of extra stuff, and it can be expanded with ROMs (4 of them) for a total of 128MB of samples... this is nice, because then I do not have to mess around with creating samples for this.
I actually bought the E-MU X-Treme Lead 1 with just 64 voices, and the XL-1 ROM, but an additional Planet Earth - World Expedition ROM in it... the later is pretty rare, and one of the best ROMs E-MU did for this series of modules, and it sounds stellar for my Ambient projects. The XL-1 ROM will give me all the electronic music building blocks I need as well, and I plan on getting the two ROMs from the Virtuoso module that has a lot of Orchestral dry samples on them... this will be the perfect blend of samples for what I want of this machine.
The P2000 I bought without any ROMs in it... thus it was pretty cheap, and will be using that one for all the ROMs... so now I'm sitting here with a ROM empty XL-1 that I don't know what to do with :D
Somehow I wish I could find a 32MB FLASH SIMM module, so that I could author my own 32MB sample ROM for this machine.... but they're so rare they are seldom seen even on EBAY... so guess I can forget about that, but it would require an Ultra sampler to make that ROM anyway...
Besides the P2000, I've gotten a used Waldorf Rack Attack, which will serve be as my only drummachine... it fits my needs for SysEx control, is compact and sound darn good and snappy... very happy with it now that I've started creating drumsounds for it.
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I decided to get one of these older Proteus 2000 modules, so that I would get access to it's huge amount af Z-Plane filters. First I was searching for a Morpheus, but they are rare these days, end pretty expensive in comparison to the P2000 family of ROMplers.
http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/e-mu-proteus-2000-715299.jpg
I intend on using it's deep editing features with it's 4 layer setup, for creating really huge pad sounds. I got 128 voices on this one, so it should give some rather cool possibilities, especially with the over 50 types of Z-Plane filters.
You can find an UltraProteus relatively cheaply: http://archive.cassiel.com/space/Gearhead/E-mu+Morpheus,+UltraProteus. I somehow ended up with one in a gear trade about a decade ago and just dug it out of storage. It contains all of the Morpheus filters plus most of the Proteus-family samples (for those rare occasions where you need a distinctively-cheesy preset).
I also bought a water-logged P2K with a broken display off Craigslist a few weeks back; cleaned it up (turned out to be cosmetic damage), replaced the display and now have a spare P2*K host to offload some of my XL-7 ROMs into. (The downside of a fully-loaded P2*K unit, of course, is that it's a bit of a bore to rotate through four ROMs' worth of presets. ;D )
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I decided to get one of these older Proteus 2000 modules, so that I would get access to it's huge amount af Z-Plane filters. First I was searching for a Morpheus, but they are rare these days, end pretty expensive in comparison to the P2000 family of ROMplers.
http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/e-mu-proteus-2000-715299.jpg
I intend on using it's deep editing features with it's 4 layer setup, for creating really huge pad sounds. I got 128 voices on this one, so it should give some rather cool possibilities, especially with the over 50 types of Z-Plane filters.
You can find an UltraProteus relatively cheaply: http://archive.cassiel.com/space/Gearhead/E-mu+Morpheus,+UltraProteus. I somehow ended up with one in a gear trade about a decade ago and just dug it out of storage. It contains all of the Morpheus filters plus most of the Proteus-family samples (for those rare occasions where you need a distinctively-cheesy preset).
I also bought a water-logged P2K with a broken display off Craigslist a few weeks back; cleaned it up (turned out to be cosmetic damage), replaced the display and now have a spare P2*K host to offload some of my XL-7 ROMs into. (The downside of a fully-loaded P2*K unit, of course, is that it's a bit of a bore to rotate through four ROMs' worth of presets. ;D )
Yeah... know about the UltraProteus... I've had one, but did not like the samples in it.... I've had a Morpheus too, and liked that one better, though, I'd rather have had an UltraProteus with the Morpheus samples, as the Ultra has more filters.
But I chose the P2K family for several reasons... the first being that it's easier to get and cheap... second, There can be more samples, deeper engine, four layers in a preset, better sound quality etc. etc.
The factory presets of the XL-1 is not that good in my opinion, at least not for my Ambient usage... The samples on the World Expedition is a totally different matter... but when I start creating my own Ambient pads I'm sure all the ROM samples will shine their value.
I will only be using the P2K in single-mode, so with 128 voices, it should be possible to create some rather dense pad sounds with loads of release time... all in all, I think that these modules, really packs a punch in value these days... just need to do some presets myself.
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I have a Proteus 2000 and Audity 2000, sitting in a rack here. I have no idea when they were last powered up.
Good luck with the preset creation, I always thought it was a pain in the arse.
Might hit the power switches tomorrow to see if they still work...
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I loaded my E-mu XL-7 Command Station up with the Rob Papen Techno Synth Construction Yard and Beat Garden ROMs, along with the World Expedition (which I absolutely love), though it is nice to have a standard Composer ROM around (in the guise of the Proteus 2000) as well.
That said - some of the E-mu P2K ROMs are selling for more than the units they were shipped in....
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I loaded my E-mu XL-7 Command Station up with the Rob Papen Techno Synth Construction Yard and Beat Garden ROMs, along with the World Expedition (which I absolutely love), though it is nice to have a standard Composer ROM around (in the guise of the Proteus 2000) as well.
That said - some of the E-mu P2K ROMs are selling for more than the units they were shipped in....
Wow, I'm very close to that - MP7 with the 2 Papen and a Composer. I plan on getting the World next time I see one, to replace the default MP7/MoPatt which just isn't quite up my alley. Only thing is I'd kinda like the XROM too, but... only 4 slots. :D
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I loaded my E-mu XL-7 Command Station up with the Rob Papen Techno Synth Construction Yard and Beat Garden ROMs, along with the World Expedition (which I absolutely love), though it is nice to have a standard Composer ROM around (in the guise of the Proteus 2000) as well.
That said - some of the E-mu P2K ROMs are selling for more than the units they were shipped in....
Wow, I'm very close to that - MP7 with the 2 Papen and a Composer. I plan on getting the World next time I see one, to replace the default MP7/MoPatt which just isn't quite up my alley. Only thing is I'd kinda like the XROM too, but... only 4 slots. :D
You may find that a 64-voice Planet Earth rackmount module ends up being cheaper (e.g., $200 for one in the Atlanta area, on Craigslist presently) than the ROM on its own....
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I loaded my E-mu XL-7 Command Station up with the Rob Papen Techno Synth Construction Yard and Beat Garden ROMs, along with the World Expedition (which I absolutely love), though it is nice to have a standard Composer ROM around (in the guise of the Proteus 2000) as well.
That said - some of the E-mu P2K ROMs are selling for more than the units they were shipped in....
Wow, I'm very close to that - MP7 with the 2 Papen and a Composer. I plan on getting the World next time I see one, to replace the default MP7/MoPatt which just isn't quite up my alley. Only thing is I'd kinda like the XROM too, but... only 4 slots. :D
You may find that a 64-voice Planet Earth rackmount module ends up being cheaper (e.g., $200 for one in the Atlanta area, on Craigslist presently) than the ROM on its own....
Yeah, I've casually kept an eye out for those as well, but I should add them to my searches. Do you know if these ROMs work in the Ensoniq ZR-76? I know it's sounds were used in the HALO, but can't find any info to verify if, for example, I could put the Composer or World Expedition ROMs in it. I'm kinda looking at one as a 76 key controller for my studio (since once it's in place, I would never, ever move it :D).
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I have a Proteus 2000 and Audity 2000, sitting in a rack here. I have no idea when they were last powered up.
Good luck with the preset creation, I always thought it was a pain in the arse.
Might hit the power switches tomorrow to see if they still work...
They ARE a pain to program from the front panel... but with an editor, it's a breeze ;)
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I loaded my E-mu XL-7 Command Station up with the Rob Papen Techno Synth Construction Yard and Beat Garden ROMs, along with the World Expedition (which I absolutely love), though it is nice to have a standard Composer ROM around (in the guise of the Proteus 2000) as well.
That said - some of the E-mu P2K ROMs are selling for more than the units they were shipped in....
I had those Rob Papen ROMs in the old XL-1/P2000 I once had... They are good for EDM etc. but not as important for my Ambient projects... back then I was into Techno etc. so that made good sense :D
I have been thinking about the Composer ROM as well, but it is too much bread'n'butter for me... what I need is samples with harmonically rich content, preferably looped, so that they can be used for creating pad sounds that fade in and out slowly... thus the looped portion is more important than the transients really... that is why I'm going for the Virtuoso ROMs now... I would also really like the Vintage Pro ROM, but it is also pretty rare... unfortunately.
But most of all, I'd like a 32MB FLASH SIMM module... mainly because I need samples of nature (rain, fire, water, storms etc.) that work well in Ambient pad sounds... and E-MU obviously never made an FX-oriented ROM... so I'd be really happy to be able to create my own ROM for this.. hundreds of tiny looped snippets of audio FX textures...
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Yeah, I've casually kept an eye out for those as well, but I should add them to my searches. Do you know if these ROMs work in the Ensoniq ZR-76? I know it's sounds were used in the HALO, but can't find any info to verify if, for example, I could put the Composer or World Expedition ROMs in it. I'm kinda looking at one as a 76 key controller for my studio (since once it's in place, I would never, ever move it :D).
Nah, you can get the ZR expansion ROMs as the Ensoniq Project ROM for the P2K series (i.e., Ensoniq -> E-mu), but the ZR predates the P2K architecture by some measure, so there's no E-mu -> Ensoniq mapping.
Alternately, you could score a TS-12 (which can load ASR-10 samples) and backport the Emulator X sound library by way of the Chicken Systems Translator stuff. (I'm considering this for my poly-aftertouched TS-10).
But most of all, I'd like a 32MB FLASH SIMM module... mainly because I need samples of nature (rain, fire, water, storms etc.) that work well in Ambient pad sounds... and E-MU obviously never made an FX-oriented ROM... so I'd be really happy to be able to create my own ROM for this.. hundreds of tiny looped snippets of audio FX textures...
Yeah, those are unobtainium, yet there seems to be quite a bit of demand for them. I'd buy an Ultra for that purpose alone (blowing custom P2K ROMs).
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Yeah, I've casually kept an eye out for those as well, but I should add them to my searches. Do you know if these ROMs work in the Ensoniq ZR-76? I know it's sounds were used in the HALO, but can't find any info to verify if, for example, I could put the Composer or World Expedition ROMs in it. I'm kinda looking at one as a 76 key controller for my studio (since once it's in place, I would never, ever move it :D).
Nah, you can get the ZR expansion ROMs as the Ensoniq Project ROM for the P2K series (i.e., Ensoniq -> E-mu), but the ZR predates the P2K architecture by some measure, so there's no E-mu -> Ensoniq mapping.
Alternately, you could score a TS-12 (which can load ASR-10 samples) and backport the Emulator X sound library by way of the Chicken Systems Translator stuff. (I'm considering this for my poly-aftertouched TS-10).
Ah, well my main motivation was to have a good 76key controller for cheap, that had the added benefit of being able to fit in more E-Mu ROMs. Ultimately I'd like to have access to the 2 Papen, Composer, World and XROM, maybe the Orchestral, since layering is what it's all about.
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Ah, well my main motivation was to have a good 76key controller for cheap, that had the added benefit of being able to fit in more E-Mu ROMs. Ultimately I'd like to have access to the 2 Papen, Composer, World and XROM, maybe the Orchestral, since layering is what it's all about.
An E4K or E-Synth keyboard would allow you to load those libraries–and you get a great-feeling 76-key Fatar synth-action (TP/8S) keybed out of the deal:
(http://images.keysworld.de/emu_e4k_271011_angle.jpg)
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Ah, well my main motivation was to have a good 76key controller for cheap, that had the added benefit of being able to fit in more E-Mu ROMs. Ultimately I'd like to have access to the 2 Papen, Composer, World and XROM, maybe the Orchestral, since layering is what it's all about.
An E4K or E-Synth keyboard would allow you to load those libraries–and you get a great-feeling 76-key Fatar synth-action (TP/8S) keybed out of the deal:
(http://images.keysworld.de/emu_e4k_271011_angle.jpg)
Ooh, never new they made a keyboard version. Looks like all 3 of these (ZR76, EK4 & Esynth) are all mono/channel aftertouch though. Womp womp. Surprising since my Command Station is poly aftertouch. But yeah, otherwise those offer a lot of interesting options.
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Oh yeah... the good old E4K keyboard sampler... my first entry into the hardware market... won that one in 1998 in the Creative Open MIDI Contest, along with ten 24 karat gold coins (specificly molded with the competition logo)... I actually miss it, and one is for sale here in DK right now... my GAS is kicking in to get that thing again :)
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If you desire poly-aftertouch, then you want one of these (same Fatar TP/8S keybed):
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_rScBRKlTdoE/TOgVlDxDlnI/AAAAAAABxN8/Kcf4daRFLHY/s1600/IMG_4779.jpg)
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Allright... I think I have found the last member for my studio now, giving me what I wanted; 8 synths, and one drummachine, all hooked up to a Mackie ONYX 1640 with two Lexicon FX processors for Delay/Reverb/Modulation (MX300 and MX400).
It has taken some time (more than 25 years) to arrive at this setup, which I now HOPE is complete for starting my Ambient projects. This has been one hell of a ride with more than 150 hardware instruments going thru the studio (I really have lost count). I've tried both direct MIDI sequencing and also Harddisk recording, and I've had love/hate relationship with both methods of making music... switching back and forth between the two, I finally decided that the solution would be to do BOTH! ... so I have been carefully setting up my mixer and synths, so that I can both make a piece of music using direct MIDI sequencing, and/or harddisk recording, depending on my mood and the score in general... not having to decide between the two has helped a lot.
My synthesizers today is a mixture of both analog and digital, but has definitely shifted a lot more towards digital machines, simply because they are more flexible, and have more synthesis options... today I have only one type of instrument where I will not let go of analog, and that's Bass sounds... and in a very few situations, when pitch needs to be very high and crystal clear without aliasing.
I use all my synths in single mode... simply because that gives most flexibility in sound design, at FX is usually compromised as soon as you enter multimode of almost all synthesizers, and also, I want the individual analog EQ and FX send on my mixer to be on a "per part" basis. I have only one machine that work standalone, and that is the drummachine. So basically, my setup is an 8 track plus a drummachine/FX track that work completely stand alone (incl. DSP effects).
The synths I ended up with are:
Waldorf - Blofeld Keyboard
DSI - Prophet 12
Roland - V-Synth XT
Yamaha - FS1R
E-MU - Proteus 2000 (with XL-1, World Expedition, Virtuoso 1+2 ROMs)
Waldorf - Microwave II
Waldorf - Pulse 2
Evolution Synthesis - EVS-1
Waldorf - Rack Attack
The new member in the studio is the Evolution Synthesis - EVS-1 synthesizer, which I got rather cheap. It is a strange hybrid digital beast from about 1990, featuring a mix of FM, Phase Modulation, Formant, Subtractive Synthesis, Waveshaping and other "modules" of synthesis, set up in algorithms like on an FM synth... it has a really special sound that is both analogue'ish and brutally digital... it is based on a custom digital synth DSP chip I did not know about, but found the datasheet for, and is 16 voice polyphonic... can be really dirty and gritty with aliasing in the higher notes like a digital oscillator of the Evolver. It also has full SysEx specs for creating an editor for it.
Here are three links to some youtube videos of it in action:
https://youtu.be/r9xIg63UtfM
https://youtu.be/8ZfB9iG0Qt0
https://youtu.be/JKeigA4P8Y4
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Allright... I think I have found the last member for my studio now, giving me what I wanted; 8 synths, and one drummachine, all hooked up to a Mackie ONYX 1640 with two Lexicon FX processors for Delay/Reverb/Modulation (MX300 and MX400).
It has taken some time (more than 25 years) to arrive at this setup
The synths I ended up with are:
Waldorf - Blofeld Keyboard
DSI - Prophet 12
Roland - V-Synth XT
Yamaha - FS1R
E-MU - Proteus 2000 (with XL-1, World Expedition, Virtuoso 1+2 ROMs)
Waldorf - Microwave II
Waldorf - Pulse 2
Evolution Synthesis - EVS-1
Waldorf - Rack Attack
Awesome. We definitely have similar tastes. :) How does the Blofeld compare to the Microwave? I know it has some of the waves from previous Waldorfs, but don't know enough about the line to know what is different.
Also curious about the V-Synth; I've been planning on getting a regular 2.0 version when I see a good deal on one, because I think I'd want the keyboard and hands-on controls, but I know the XT has the D50 and Vocal cards included. Have you had the regular and/or GT versions to compare?
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Allright... I think I have found the last member for my studio now, giving me what I wanted; 8 synths, and one drummachine, all hooked up to a Mackie ONYX 1640 with two Lexicon FX processors for Delay/Reverb/Modulation (MX300 and MX400).
It has taken some time (more than 25 years) to arrive at this setup
The synths I ended up with are:
Waldorf - Blofeld Keyboard
DSI - Prophet 12
Roland - V-Synth XT
Yamaha - FS1R
E-MU - Proteus 2000 (with XL-1, World Expedition, Virtuoso 1+2 ROMs)
Waldorf - Microwave II
Waldorf - Pulse 2
Evolution Synthesis - EVS-1
Waldorf - Rack Attack
Awesome. We definitely have similar tastes. :) How does the Blofeld compare to the Microwave? I know it has some of the waves from previous Waldorfs, but don't know enough about the line to know what is different.
Also curious about the V-Synth; I've been planning on getting a regular 2.0 version when I see a good deal on one, because I think I'd want the keyboard and hands-on controls, but I know the XT has the D50 and Vocal cards included. Have you had the regular and/or GT versions to compare?
The Blofeld can certainly do some of the same wavetable kind of sounds, but it sounds much more polished because of the 21bit waveforms in the wavetables, compared to the MW2's 8bit waveforms... also, the Blofeld can have full cycle waveforms in the wavetables... the MW2 has the first half of a waveform flipped and reversed for the second half.
Other differences are in the engine... the MW2 has a dedicated wavetable envelope with more segments, that the Blofeld does not, which sadly makes it impossible to port MW2 patches to Blofeld very well.
Another difference is that MW2 can interpolate between single waveform cycles in a wavetable "in the box", which makes changing the wavetable faster and more intuitive... with the Blofeld, you will have to create the wavetables on a computer and dump them via SysEx.
All in all... the MW2 sounds grittier, more "raw", which adds to it's charm, compared to Blofeld.... Blofeld on the other hand, sound much more clean, which is good for other things... this is why I have both. Besides, Blofelds entire engine lets you use the wavetables in a lot of ways that a MW2 cannot... you can use wavetables to modulate samples or oscillators and vice versa... the Blofeld is one huge sound designers machine, that the MW2 will not even touch.
About the V-Synth.... I've had the GT and the XT... The GT is basically two XT's in abox, with some additional bells and whistles. The main difference to the first V-Synth keyboard is that you can layer two independent voices... thats why it is "two XTs" basically... also, the D50 and Voice cards cannot be used with it, but the voice card has been implemented into the synthesis engine in a more limited fashion...
What suits you best depend on your needs... if I had to choose one of the keyboard versions, I'd probably take the GT because of the better polyphony, added USB storage and the added AP Synthesis (early SuperNatural)... but I have the XT because it does what I need, is not that much different from the GT, and it's compact... also remember, that the only model capable of being used in a multi timbral fashion is the XT.
Some people though, prefer the first version because of it's user interface which should have been much better than on the GT... I've never had the first keyboard version, so I do not know about this, but I've seen that statement countless places on forums.
And please remember: the drivers for these synths DO NOT WORK with latest operating systems on Windows machines! ... be prepared to use MIDI cables!
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All in all... the MW2 sounds grittier, more "raw", which adds to it's charm, compared to Blofeld.... Blofeld on the other hand, sound much more clean, which is good for other things... this is why I have both. Besides, Blofelds entire engine lets you use the wavetables in a lot of ways that a MW2 cannot... you can use wavetables to modulate samples or oscillators and vice versa... the Blofeld is one huge sound designers machine, that the MW2 will not even touch...
...Some people though, prefer the first version because of it's user interface which should have been much better than on the GT... I've never had the first keyboard version, so I do not know about this, but I've seen that statement countless places on forums.
And please remember: the drivers for these synths DO NOT WORK with latest operating systems on Windows machines! ... be prepared to use MIDI cables!
Oh, great to know the MW is grittier, that's usually what I want. :D
Also do you mean the most current Vsynth drivers don't work over USB with current Windows? I use a Mac so Windows isn't a problem, but I run it into an iConnectMIDI4+ to connect to my 5pin MIDI devices, so hopefully that would work. I do think I'll look for a regular 2.0 keyboard version, because I think I'd want the performance features and ease of use, but the built-in D50 and Vocal in the XT are pretty attractive too.
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All in all... the MW2 sounds grittier, more "raw", which adds to it's charm, compared to Blofeld.... Blofeld on the other hand, sound much more clean, which is good for other things... this is why I have both. Besides, Blofelds entire engine lets you use the wavetables in a lot of ways that a MW2 cannot... you can use wavetables to modulate samples or oscillators and vice versa... the Blofeld is one huge sound designers machine, that the MW2 will not even touch...
...Some people though, prefer the first version because of it's user interface which should have been much better than on the GT... I've never had the first keyboard version, so I do not know about this, but I've seen that statement countless places on forums.
And please remember: the drivers for these synths DO NOT WORK with latest operating systems on Windows machines! ... be prepared to use MIDI cables!
Oh, great to know the MW is grittier, that's usually what I want. :D
Also do you mean the most current Vsynth drivers don't work over USB with current Windows? I use a Mac so Windows isn't a problem, but I run it into an iConnectMIDI4+ to connect to my 5pin MIDI devices, so hopefully that would work. I do think I'll look for a regular 2.0 keyboard version, because I think I'd want the performance features and ease of use, but the built-in D50 and Vocal in the XT are pretty attractive too.
MW is DEFINITELY grittier, more harsh (in a good way)... and also, if you rely on presets, rather than wanting to program all yourself, then there are a great deal of great presets for the MWII, that you will not get any other way than to buy either a MWII or a MW XT (basically they are the same, XT just has more knobs, and a few more DSP FX like Delay for example)... that is why I got both actually (blofeld and MWII), because I want a huge pool of sounds to inspire me, and the Blofeld is loaded with the Q/Micro Q sounds as it is compatible with these... MWII has other sounds.
Honestly... I don't use the D-50 plug in the V-Synth XT... it does sound absolutely fine, and are 100% compatible even with SysEx to the D-50, but honestly ... compared to the sound of the V-Synth itself, the D-50 sounds are outdated and inferior compared to the V-Synth sounds... The Voice Card may be handy at some point, since it's REALLY good for a lot of things... I just never used it... yet.
So if you want the performance features of the keyboard version, and can live without the outdated D-50 sounds and Voice Card, I'd certainly go for the first keyboard version, updated to 2.0 ... if you are lucky, you might even find the cards on EBAY, but be prepared to pay A LOT for them... they are RARE! ... this is why the rackmount XT is horribly more expensive than the first keyboard version... it's not rare for the XT to cost the double in price! ... Had I not needed the compactness of the XT, I would probably have gone for the first version with keys as well.
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Great news with your current studio equilibrium! I hope you will like it. Very happy to see the Pulse 2 and Microwave II back in your studio. The Evolution Synthesis EVS-1 demos you posted earlier on sounds very interesting.
Looking forward to your new music and demos! Consider making any demo videos of your setup?
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Great news with your current studio equilibrium! I hope you will like it. Very happy to see the Pulse 2 and Microwave II back in your studio. The Evolution Synthesis EVS-1 demos you posted earlier on sounds very interesting.
Looking forward to your new music and demos! Consider making any demo videos of your setup?
Thanks :) ... I like it so far, but it is an almost OCD like challenge to figure out the final setup to be honest... it's not easy for me, settling with just eight synths and a drummachine, but I HAVE TO, so that I can switch from collecting to making music, otherwise it would be ridiculous gathering all that stuff.
The Pulse 2 will stay, until an equally sounding analog polysynth comes along, and then it will be replaced, since Polysynths are more valuable to my style of music these days... it's here because it's the best solution to a full MIDI spec'ed ladder filter synth with a deep enough engine for my liking. I've actually considdered getting 4-8 of these and polychain them instead, but I think I'll wait and see what either MOOG or Waldorf comes up with in the future, and keep the Pulse 2 until then... I still hope for a PolyPulse from Waldorf.
The Microwave II is staying mainly because it's unique in it's wavetable sound, and it has a lot of very useable presets for me as well... if Waldorf ever make a hardware Microwave III that is backwards compatible, it'll be swapped for that... I prefer modern synths without quirks.
I still have the EVS-1, and it certainly is a weird little beast... it's audio output is distorting in a very pleasing way on almost any preset, if you do not turn down the volume (digitally, not via the volume pot), making many presets sound really dirty and varm... this is probably why it has been called "analog'ish" in sound... unfortunately it is a bit complicated creating an editor for, and information on settings of parameters is very sparse... so much I had to use an Atari ST emulator to run an old piece of software editor, just to find out the settings for Envelope and LFO destinations... not even the manual for the synth has that written down, as it was sold with the Atari software, and the manual for the software has no clues to the destinations... so I have to run this shitty old software to find the values... I am not yet sure if this synth is going to stay... it's sound is hard to compare to anything... it sounds both like a distorted old stringer synth, like an FM synth, like a Casi PM synth too... weirdo synth :D
I'm not sure about videos... I have been thinking about it, and I may do it one day when I've found equipment to synchronize the audio down into the video I'm recording... but first I need to finish the studio completely... which is close... I need a Lexicon PCM92, and one more synth to fill out the last stereo slot in my mixer... then I should be set.
I'm still not certain what that last synth will be... only thing that tickles my GAS right now are a Nord Lead A1 to be honest, and that is mainly to have one synth that has my favourite Ensemble effect built in... still not sure though... I'm also keen on the new Elektron Digitakt as a means to fire of samples... unfortunately they spoiled that product completely by not supporting stereo samples...
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Sounds like loads of fun deciphering the old EVS-1 sysex and parameter formats. Its always so good when these are documented well!
:o . o O ( cough cough )
May I suggest that you leave that slot in your setup open for a while? Instead just use what you got and make notes whenever you are making music what you miss having in your setup. You may call it your dream slot. In this way you actually try out your setup in practice and gain hands on experience with how it work for your musical goals.
Such an approach is not new. Digital's good old System Research Center did just that. Well, except that they build full operating systems or large components thereof to determine how they were to work with. Pretty cool place!
With the patience in place its worth considering two additional approaches: (1) rolling studio updates and (2) multiple synthesizers on the shelf to pick whenever their particular sound are needed. I can easily see multiple smaller machines that could be useful in some cases for your projects. Why not keep them and simply bring them into your setup when they are needed?
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Sounds like loads of fun deciphering the old EVS-1 sysex and parameter formats. Its always so good when these are documented well!
:o . o O ( cough cough )
May I suggest that you leave that slot in your setup open for a while? Instead just use what you got and make notes whenever you are making music what you miss having in your setup. You may call it your dream slot. In this way you actually try out your setup in practice and gain hands on experience with how it work for your musical goals.
Such an approach is not new. Digital's good old System Research Center did just that. Well, except that they build full operating systems or large components thereof to determine how they were to work with. Pretty cool place!
With the patience in place its worth considering two additional approaches: (1) rolling studio updates and (2) multiple synthesizers on the shelf to pick whenever their particular sound are needed. I can easily see multiple smaller machines that could be useful in some cases for your projects. Why not keep them and simply bring them into your setup when they are needed?
Good points... I've had like thoughts myself from time to time... I actually have two slots left, since I decided to get rid of my Pulse 2 again... the problem is not the sound (definitely not!), but that it's a monosynth... these can be used in Ambient music for sure, but they are not as useful as polyphonic ones, ESPECIALLY because I've decided to record MIDI live, and not do harddisk recording... the reason for this is, that for every layer you HD record, you record the same amount of noise from the mixer, and it all add up to a point, where quiet passages has clear noise in them... I HATE that to be honest, and Ambient does have quiet passages from time to time... it is especially the reverb unit that is the culprit, since it takes the noise, and reverberates it making it even worse... if I do live MIDI recording, the noise is only present ONCE, no matter haw many channels I use, and even lower when I mute channels I do NOT use.
So because of this, I need the eight synths stereo channels I decided to have (max), synths that are as flexible as possible, and preferably ones that can do more than one trick, and play polyphonic (because if only ONE synth does drums for example, then that particular synth will do that every single time, ind will not be used for other types of sounds, which is a waste I think)... but still be unique enough to warrant my interest, and have plenty of free presets for my Ambient genre... yes! ... I am VERY demanding, I know! :D
So I get your point.... wait... which is not my biggest skill I admit :D ... the point here is, as you say; what I need... instead of what I want. the two need not be the same you know :) ... so I've had the thought of just letting them two channels be open, and start making music... then I'll certainly find out what I fell that I NEED, rather than what I want.
But one thing is pretty clear now, that I need... I need something that will allow me to take in samples of strange vocals, sound effects etc. especially for the Dark Ambient style I also want to create... and that means I will have to find a sampler of sorts... the V-Synth XT that I got is not very much geared for multi-timbral use, and the management of samples is cumbersome to work with... not at all intuitive enough for me... so I guess I'm having thoughts about getting an E-MU E5000/6400 again soon, to take care of all things vocal, effects, percussion etc... this machine is the only one I've ever had that has the intuitiveness I need of a sampler... I hate the SCSI connectivity, but I'll just have to live with that... now is the problem of finding one at a good price :)
The last slot in my mixer will just stay open for whatever will tickle my GAS later on.... I know DSI will produce something at some point... Waldorf most likely too...
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I've had like thoughts myself from time to time... I actually have two slots left, since I decided to get rid of my Pulse 2 again...
Oh no! So you sold your Pulse 2 again without even asking me if I wanted to buy it for 50 danish kroner!? ;) ;) ;)
ESPECIALLY because I've decided to record MIDI live, and not do harddisk recording... the reason for this is, that for every layer you HD record, you record the same amount of noise from the mixer, and it all add up to a point, where quiet passages has clear noise in them...
I do get that problem. Is there any way to solve that such as with a higher quality mixer and/or a high quality audio interface? Or perhaps a combination of these technologies depending on what you are doing?
So I get your point.... wait... which is not my biggest skill I admit :D ... the point here is, as you say; what I need... instead of what I want. the two need not be the same you know :) ... so I've had the thought of just letting them two channels be open, and start making music... then I'll certainly find out what I fell that I NEED, rather than what I want.
You can say that there are two parallel processes going on at all time. One is the tools actually needed to accomplish one's musical goals. The other is what one wants to have. For me the latter is quite often stuff that haven't been made yet. So if I had the knowledge and resources for it I would quite likely be designing my own synthesizers. Its not going to happen though.
Hope that the build and test how it works will work for your studio setup. Like with any design its value and usefulness can only really be determined by practical use. So its an iterative process. Very happy to see you head in this direction.
But one thing is pretty clear now, that I need... I need something that will allow me to take in samples of strange vocals, sound effects etc. especially for the Dark Ambient style I also want to create... and that means I will have to find a sampler of sorts...
Is there by any chance a good sampling plugin you can use with your DAW? Maybe that would be the best way to start out. Playing around with old samplers using expensive SCSI interfaces is a too expensive way to head? Especially when there are so many good plugins and that a new hardware machine with analog filters may show up in the future.
The last slot in my mixer will just stay open for whatever will tickle my GAS later on.... I know DSI will produce something at some point... Waldorf most likely too...
Certainly look forward to see their new designs in the future. Something featuring their discrete filters and plenty of modulation features would be very good. Especially if the design would be somewhat evolved!
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About the noise.... no not really... the RANE rack mixer I used earlier, had special circuitry that prevented the mixer's own noise from being raised when the gain knobs was turned up... all 8 stereo channels could be fully clockwise, ands the mixer was dead silent no matter if it was at that position or all the way down... but the noise came anyway... not because of the mixer, but because of the noise coming from the synthesizers themselves... and as I prefer having outboard FX (reverb), the reverb of the Lexicon MX400 just enhanced the noise by reverberating it... you could use noise cancellers maybe, but I really do not want to begin messing with stuff like that... also, I just bought a Mackie 1604 VLZ4 mixer, which I am really happy with, and was bought specifically with this setup in mind.
I'm not going software by the way, so no... no software sampler for me, I want ONLY hardware... a principle of mine taken loooong ago :) ... I'm almost certain it will be an Ultra sampler because I know that machine in and out, and anything else I've tried is just plain unsatisfying for my use... The EOS of the Ultra samplers let me browse soundbanks in realtime, which is EXTREMELY intuitive to work with... the sampler itself is perfect for what I need right now, the only thorn in the side is, as you mention, SCSI problems.... one thing is for sure, I'm NEVER going to connect it to my computer using an SCSI card again... NEVER EVER AGAIN! ... major frustrations with drivers, ATAPI layers and what have you.... do not want to mess with that again.... if I get an Ultra sampler, I will find one of those SCSI bays for connecting CF cards, and then install this instead of the normal floppy drive, so that I can simply transfer samples via CF cards back and forth...
Actually I already have my V-Synth XT, and it can run in multimode, but I'd really not want to rob it of it's polyphony by using it for triggering vocal samples etc.... I need that synth to concentrate on doing what it does best, in single mode... so I need a sampler. only other solution is tha sample flash RAM in my Blofeld... but that is really not the way to do it... it's very complicated getting samples in and out of this...
I would of course hope that DSI did a hybrid sampler someday, but honestly... I don't think it will ever be as userfriendly and intuitive as an Ultra sampler... these samplers simply are something special to me.... I'd like a sample based synth from DSI nonetheless of course, but it would be for totally differnt reasons than to let it play vocal samples :)
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How about some of the more modern samplers such as older MPC models, the new MPC Live or the Elektron boxes such as Octatrack? They are of cause all Software With Knobs (TM) so its the same thing as a software solution. But there are there and work fairly well.
And yeah, a new sampler with analog filters would be awesome!
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How about some of the more modern samplers such as older MPC models, the new MPC Live or the Elektron boxes such as Octatrack? They are of cause all Software With Knobs (TM) so its the same thing as a software solution. But there are there and work fairly well.
And yeah, a new sampler with analog filters would be awesome!
I never really caught on to the AKAI MPCs... honestly I never had one... I always liked E-MU because of their incredible audio quality. Most samplers have no intuitive way of browsing huge libraries of samples/banks... it is always something with entering a load menu, then choosing a bank, load it, and then see if it was the right sound... or you have to go back and find another one.... The E-MU's have internal HD with gigabytes of space, and when you use it's "soundsprint" mode, you can browse thru individual patches in saved banks on the HD, and it will load them temporarily into RAM so that you can play it while you browse... when you find a preset you like, you just merge it with the current bank you have in memory.... this way of doing it is the most intuitive way I've ever seen in a sampler... it saves so much time, and you end up with a bank that has ONLY the presets and samples you want in your project, and can save that easily for later recall.
Show me just ONE other sampler that has this feature, and I'll be VERY interested :D
Octatrack is out of the question.... I really do not like the workflow of Elektron machines... and their sysex is not for SoundDiver... Ultra samplers already have editors in SoundDiver ;) ... I am interrested in their newest and coming product though... the DIGITAKT... but when I learned it only does mono samples, it fell to the ground for me.... I did like the idear of having 1GB of internal drive in it... but still, no info on how these samples would be browsed... if I cannot browse and play the highlighted sample while browsing, I dont want it... it's that simple. :) ... yes I'm a demanding motherf..... I know :D
Besides... I could get two used E5000 Ultra's for the price of a single DIGITAKT... Elektron products are highly overpriced in my opinion, especially that DIGITAKT.... even if it's a new product aimed at a lower cost than their other gear, considdering it's just a simple sample trigger machine with a sequencer, it's too expensive in my point of view. A like product like the KORG Electribe 2 sampler will offer just as much for only half the price..
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I do get what you are saying. User interface matter! And maybe a new design with analog filters show up one of these years. I seem to be aware of at least one manufacturer having that as a possible future product. And who knows what Dave Rossum may want to do in the future. It sounds like quite a huge undertaking to get both sound, features and UI right.
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A small update... not much new has happened in my studio by means of more synths... in fact I'm currently selling most of what I have, because I am tired of never making any music at all... always waiting for something new... it has to stop.
Thus I'm selling Microwave II, FS1R, Proteus 2000, EVS-1 and Rack Attack... Blofeld will go as soon as the Quantum is on the market.
I decided to only have what I NEED... and not what I WANT... because I will always be wanting more synths, and it paralyze my music making... So I'm gathering the synths I NEED for the Ambeint genre I'm into, which will be; V-Synth XT, E-MU E5000 Ultra, Prophet 12, Quantum and one more which I do not yet know what will be... that's it... 5 synths... I also sell my mixers, and connect everything directly to my Audio card... even external FX will go, since I'll start using plugins instead for that which gives me more flexibility.
One of my major aims has been to get rid of using editors... I'm sick and tired of SoundDivers limitations, and 3rd party ugly editors that either don't work well, or just do not like... so my aim is to ONLY have synths where I actually like and use their interfaces, which would make me non-dependent on editors.... so no more SysEx shit here to deal with... this is why I've chosen the E-MU E5000 Ultra... it's the best hardware sampler around, and has a really cool interface... same goes for V-Synth XT... and the Quantum will feature a huge color touchpanel display too, so it will fit the bill.... Prophet 12 has a very intuitive interface too... fits the bill as well.
In addition, most of these synths have some sort of built in storage capability, so I'm not hindered by a certain amount of preset locations... Quantum will have SD storage, V-Synth XT has Compact Flash storage, and I just upgraded the E-MU with an internal Compact Flash card reader/writer as well... the P12 do not have any storage means, but at least it has so many preset slots I think it will do.
I'm really happy with this setup because it has much less cable cluttering, it's more intuitive to work with, and I can focus on fewer machines instead of too many.
So currently I am sampling a lot of sounds from the machines I'm selling, to have their timbres for use in the samplers... I've ordered a new display for the E-MU as well, a white on black display, giving me more contrast than the dull one they were born with... some expansions to my RME AIO soundcard for more analog inputs is on the way too.
A lot of my future music will be done with sampling in various ways... this is also why I want the Quantum, since it has granular sampling, a synthesis type I currently do not have... a lot of live recording of sounds will be done for the music as well, using microphones.
So... there you have it... a "small" update, but one I'm certainly looking forward to :)
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Sounds like a reasonable move Razmo. I'm thinking about getting a sampler. I've never had one, but would want one that is hardware based with good sound quality. Do you think something like the EMU's can sample a cymbal for instance? I'd like to sample my acoustic drums just for the heck of it. Also, I'd like to sample some stringed instruments like a hammered dulcimer. I haven't researched these much, but figured you'd know.
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Sounds like a reasonable move Razmo. I'm thinking about getting a sampler. I've never had one, but would want one that is hardware based with good sound quality. Do you think something like the EMU's can sample a cymbal for instance? I'd like to sample my acoustic drums just for the heck of it. Also, I'd like to sample some stringed instruments like a hammered dulcimer. I haven't researched these much, but figured you'd know.
The E-MU Ultra samplers is the best hardware quality sampler in my opinion... E-MU was one of the leading sampler manufacturers when they still themselves (before Creative Labs bought them)... It is also the most intuitive of those I've tried, and has the best user interface.
If anything is bad about them, it is that it's hard to get samples from the computer and into the sampler... to do this you would have to have some sort of SCSI storage medium that can be connected to both computer and sampler, and SCSI is not exactly the most used interface anymore.
The easiest way to get samples back and forth is to get an Ultra sampler (must be ultra!) as these with their last OS, will be able to read FAT32 storage media which can also be read by a computer... with the Ultra samplers, this is OS 4.7
You can still purchase some SCSI PCMCIA card readers today, that will allow you to use Compact Flash cards with the Ultra samplers via a PCMCIA->CF card adapter, but these drives are pricey, and cost almost the same as an E-MU E5000 Ultra sampler... they are used with many old samplers and that is why they are so expensive... they are rare, and useful... I invested in one anyway because it eases the transferring of samples considerably.
You can of course also sample directly on the Ultra sampler via it's analog inputs, and it has really good converters... so if you do not need to transfer between computer and sampler, you can very well leave out an SCSI PCMCIA reader like above... the Ultra samplers can have both SCSI and IDE internal harddrives, but these are also getting harder and harder to find, though not as expensive since they are mostly obsolete now... but some kind of storage medium is needed for you to save your samplings.
And yes... of course you can sample a Cymbal... you can sample anything you want to... via microphone, or any other audio material... that is the whole purpose of a sampler ...
At the same time remember, that the E-MU sampler (Ultra) work as a synth... samples still go into a filter and into an amplifier afterwards, and you have modulation matrixes to modulate via LFO's and envelopes etc.. .the "oscillators" are just samplings... it gives many opportunities for creative work really, but be aware that these samplers are DEEP! ... they take some time to get around ;)
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Show me just ONE other sampler that has this feature, and I'll be VERY interested :D
Nord Wave? Software Samplers like Sample Tank or the Logic EXS24?
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Show me just ONE other sampler that has this feature, and I'll be VERY interested :D
Nord Wave? Software Samplers like Sample Tank or the Logic EXS24?
I believe that the Nord Wave is storing it's samples in flash like the Blofeld... I am not 100% though... software is not a choice for me, I'm a strict hardware guy :)
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Thanks Razmo for the details. I would not need to bring in any samples from computer, just via analog microphone. So this would work fine. I'll study some videos and such and maybe end up shopping for one.
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Thanks Razmo for the details. I would not need to bring in any samples from computer, just via analog microphone. So this would work fine. I'll study some videos and such and maybe end up shopping for one.
Just remember to watch out for the "Ultra" ... there are many earlier versions of the Emulator 4... the only one that will allow for FAT32 drives are the Ultra's with EOS 4.7
There are these models as far as I recall:
E4K
E64
E6400
E4XT
E4XT Turbo
E4XT Hollywood Gold
E4 ESynth
none of those are "Ultras".
The Ultra series consist of:
E5000 Ultra (64voices, 2 stereo outs, 1 MIDI I/O)
E6400 Ultra (64 voices, 4 stereo outs, 1 MIDI I/O)
E4XT Ultra (128 voices, 4 stereo outs, 2 MIDI I/O, ASCII connector, Digital AES/EBU I/O)
E4 Platinum (The flagship... has it all, including RFX effects option... very hard to find)
The easiest, and cheapest are the E5000, and that is the only one that cannot be upgraded to full Platinum status.. it is limited to max. 6 stereo outs and 64 voices... all other options can be installed, but the options are pretty rare, so go for the specs you want from the start, and assure they are in the sampler.
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My setup got a lot of similarities with Razmo's approach. The main difference is I make my own software and am only limited to what the device supports as that is what an instrument should be. Don't need keys, just racks and desktops which have full programmable MIDI Sysex implementation and just focus only on a few devices and brands, like DSI's range. Not going the audio recording only on a DAW approach soon because automation is fun to play with on real hardware. Roland has recently fallen off my wish list due to their very poor MIDI support in their new products (it's just software, unbelievable..still hoping on a System 8 update). Stepped on many toes of people who believe you should only buy stuff with keys and one function per knob because that's what you need for playing (live).
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I've recently had an interest in samplers starting to percolate. Certainly not a module that I'd need MIDI to play, but something for recording fragments from my modular and playing them from pads in real time. I've got a Roland MS-1 that I could press back into service, but its limitations as an improvisational instrument are crippling.
I almost think that an ancient Boss Dr. Sample would be perfect.
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I would love to see an old Emulator II type sampler. It just seems like such a fast way to get sequences going and adjust ADSR of samples that it seems like such a missed opportunity that no one is doing it. Perhaps Pioneer and DSI could make something of this idea. Hell. I'm surprised Kurzweil is dropping the ball doing something similar with their lower priced stuff. Nord doesn't seem to be as immediate as an Emulator so you spend more time programming than playing.
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I've recently had an interest in samplers starting to percolate. Certainly not a module that I'd need MIDI to play, but something for recording fragments from my modular and playing them from pads in real time. I've got a Roland MS-1 that I could press back into service, but its limitations as an improvisational instrument are crippling.
I almost think that an ancient Boss Dr. Sample would be perfect.
I understand that recording your modular would be cool... in fact I'm also going to record my other instruments, and mostly I'll be recording things with my SONY mobile recorder for digital manipulation later.
The reason a sampler is cool for my usage is, that it's extremely fast to get really dense pad sounds out of... you can more or less just sample something, and then throw it into the E5000 Ultra, within a template pad preset. The nice thing is, that I can have hundreds of samples in there quickly, and just scroll thru them in the template... it's fast, intuitive and lets me have extremely high quality ambient pads in a split second without even programing anything at all, all I need to do is transfer the samples in there from the DAW.
The internet is flooding with looped samples, and they are easý to create yourself as well... I've got software that can find seamless loop points quickly, so there is not even long times involved with sample editing... and if a sample prove difficult, you just crossfade it. Recording your own stuff is also lots of fun, and I'm thinking about getting a record player just for sampling old records found on flee markets etc. You can turn anything into a mush of pad soup with a little processing so you cannot even hear what the original was, and that is what intrigues me because you get something interesting really fast.
I could go a long way using only samplers... but they cannot do it all though, so I'll need a few other synths to do what samplers do not... this is why I will keep my Prophet 12, and buy a Waldorf Quantum when it arrives at the market... I may also get a few others, up to the limit of inputs of my RME AIO soundcard (which I may upgrade with an 8channel ADAT interface to get more inputs later).
Actually I've been searching for a sample trigger hardware machine as well in the past, but never really were satisfied with anything available... the worst problem is always the means to get samples in and out of the box, and if this is not a problem, then it's something else. It would be nice if DSI one day would do something like the E-MU SP1200 box (see? E-MU pop up again, they were king of the samplers ;) )... I think that would sell pretty well if priced right... and no... the Pioneer one does NOT cut it, it needs analog VCF/VCA for EVERY pad! :D
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Now that I think of it.... if DSI can make a 16voice REV2 at that pricepoint, that has 16 VCO/VCA with built in FX, and they proved that they could use the Curtis filter chips for drumsounds on the Tempest, then I really think they could also do a SP1200 like groovebox... they usually have 16 pads anyway, so it fits the REV2 numbers perfectly... 16 pads, 16 Curtis VCO's, 16 Curtis filters, 16 VCA's, Digital sample oscillators... just add a powerful sequencer to the mix, and a storage medium that allow for gigabytes of storage on a SD card, and allow for fast LIVE browsing of samples on the card, laid out in FAT format with full directory structure so that samples in your library can be neatly categorized. Make sure every pad has FX sends, and that Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay and Reverb is included.... an analog distortion curcuit on every pad would be welcome too. Now let every pad work on their OWN MIDI channel, so that a full SysEx spec can be made, and not that half-felt implementation of the Tempest. MIDI control should be complete.
Anyone?
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Now that I think of it.... if DSI can make a 16voice REV2 at that pricepoint, that has 16 VCO/VCA with built in FX, and they proved that they could use the Curtis filter chips for drumsounds on the Tempest, then I really think they could also do a SP1200 like groovebox... they usually have 16 pads anyway, so it fits the REV2 numbers perfectly... 16 pads, 16 Curtis VCO's, 16 Curtis filters, 16 VCA's, Digital sample oscillators... just add a powerful sequencer to the mix, and a storage medium that allow for gigabytes of storage on a SD card, and allow for fast LIVE browsing of samples on the card, laid out in FAT format with full directory structure so that samples in your library can be neatly categorized. Make sure every pad has FX sends, and that Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay and Reverb is included.... an analog distortion curcuit on every pad would be welcome too. Now let every pad work on their OWN MIDI channel, so that a full SysEx spec can be made, and not that half-felt implementation of the Tempest. MIDI control should be complete.
Anyone?
I'd rather have a keyboard based sampler than a drum machine or box sampler. Also the Rev2 has DCO not VCOs.
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I really think they could also do a SP1200 like groovebox
Anyone?
DSI probably wouldn't step on Pioneer's toes by making something too close to the SP-16. They might even be contractually prohibited (alert: that's pure speculation).
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I've been really disappointed with Kurzweil as of late. They've ditched their 5 Pin Midi connections on their lower priced synths, they seem to be ditching their PC line and it seems like they don't offer too much variety.
Nord should really be looking into a more hands on sampler themselves. An analog style interface, easier and faster way to sample (ala Korg's microsampler). They really should look into incorporating a sequencer into their stuff. I know most people use DAWs but honestly I always prefer using on board sequencers.
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Now that I think of it.... if DSI can make a 16voice REV2 at that pricepoint, that has 16 VCO/VCA with built in FX, and they proved that they could use the Curtis filter chips for drumsounds on the Tempest, then I really think they could also do a SP1200 like groovebox... they usually have 16 pads anyway, so it fits the REV2 numbers perfectly... 16 pads, 16 Curtis VCO's, 16 Curtis filters, 16 VCA's, Digital sample oscillators... just add a powerful sequencer to the mix, and a storage medium that allow for gigabytes of storage on a SD card, and allow for fast LIVE browsing of samples on the card, laid out in FAT format with full directory structure so that samples in your library can be neatly categorized. Make sure every pad has FX sends, and that Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay and Reverb is included.... an analog distortion curcuit on every pad would be welcome too. Now let every pad work on their OWN MIDI channel, so that a full SysEx spec can be made, and not that half-felt implementation of the Tempest. MIDI control should be complete.
Anyone?
I'd rather have a keyboard based sampler than a drum machine or box sampler. Also the Rev2 has DCO not VCOs.
I also want a sampler synth (but without keys thank you!) ... I just gave the example of SP1200 because I was talking "sample trigger machines"
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I really think they could also do a SP1200 like groovebox
Anyone?
DSI probably wouldn't step on Pioneer's toes by making something too close to the SP-16. They might even be contractually prohibited (alert: that's pure speculation).
But... the Pioneer is nowhere near what I'm talking about exept for being a sample trigger... it has ONE DSI filter global, and I want one with VCF/VCA etc. per pad... but you may be right... if that was to be real, Pioneer's would probably look dull in comparison.
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Now that I think of it.... if DSI can make a 16voice REV2 at that pricepoint, that has 16 VCO/VCA with built in FX, and they proved that they could use the Curtis filter chips for drumsounds on the Tempest, then I really think they could also do a SP1200 like groovebox... they usually have 16 pads anyway, so it fits the REV2 numbers perfectly... 16 pads, 16 Curtis VCO's, 16 Curtis filters, 16 VCA's, Digital sample oscillators... just add a powerful sequencer to the mix, and a storage medium that allow for gigabytes of storage on a SD card, and allow for fast LIVE browsing of samples on the card, laid out in FAT format with full directory structure so that samples in your library can be neatly categorized. Make sure every pad has FX sends, and that Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay and Reverb is included.... an analog distortion curcuit on every pad would be welcome too. Now let every pad work on their OWN MIDI channel, so that a full SysEx spec can be made, and not that half-felt implementation of the Tempest. MIDI control should be complete.
Anyone?
I'd rather have a keyboard based sampler than a drum machine or box sampler. Also the Rev2 has DCO not VCOs.
I also want a sampler synth (but without keys thank you!) ... I just gave the example of SP1200 because I was talking "sample trigger machines"
Fine you get the module and I'll get the key version ;)
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I would love to see an old Emulator II type sampler. It just seems like such a fast way to get sequences going and adjust ADSR of samples that it seems like such a missed opportunity that no one is doing it. Perhaps Pioneer and DSI could make something of this idea. Hell. I'm surprised Kurzweil is dropping the ball doing something similar with their lower priced stuff. Nord doesn't seem to be as immediate as an Emulator so you spend more time programming than playing.
Or consider the Emulator I / Akai S612–with the start / end point sliders, that would be awesome, along with switchable 2-/4-pole filters and maybe a decent FX processor or two. The immediacy of that interface was, for a long time, incredibly hard to beat.
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I would love to see an old Emulator II type sampler. It just seems like such a fast way to get sequences going and adjust ADSR of samples that it seems like such a missed opportunity that no one is doing it. Perhaps Pioneer and DSI could make something of this idea. Hell. I'm surprised Kurzweil is dropping the ball doing something similar with their lower priced stuff. Nord doesn't seem to be as immediate as an Emulator so you spend more time programming than playing.
Or consider the Emulator I / Akai S612–with the start / end point sliders, that would be awesome, along with switchable 2-/4-pole filters and maybe a decent FX processor or two. The immediacy of that interface was, for a long time, incredibly hard to beat.
I would dare say, it still is in regards to samplers.
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...a short update...
I'm now down to three synths/samplers... V-Synth XT, E-MU E5000 and DSI P12... when it's out, I will get the Waldorf Quantum as well, and probably one more synth (PEAK maybe)... then I'll stop getting more synths.
Just purchased a new sound interface today, and a single stereo channel converterbox... RME Fireface UCX and RME ADI-2 ... these will work as my new "studio heart" for HD recording... if (may the gods forbid it) I end up with GAS again and need more inputs, I can always connect an ADAT converterbox for 4 more analog stereo ins.
I also swapped the display in my E5000 Ultra... it is now White on Blue instead with a lot better contrast than the old dull one it was born with.
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... then I'll stop getting more synths.
That sounds really familiar.... almost as if I have heard that somewhere before.... :)
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I also swapped the display in my E5000 Ultra... it is now White on Blue instead with a lot better contrast than the old dull one it was born with.
Considering the same for my ESI-32 and (recently-acquired) Emax SE; already did the P2K a few months back, and it looks quite nice in the rack.
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... then I'll stop getting more synths.
That sounds really familiar.... almost as if I have heard that somewhere before.... :)
Maybe I forgot to turn down the feedback of my delay? :D
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I also swapped the display in my E5000 Ultra... it is now White on Blue instead with a lot better contrast than the old dull one it was born with.
Considering the same for my ESI-32 and (recently-acquired) Emax SE; already did the P2K a few months back, and it looks quite nice in the rack.
admitted it does look rather slick... but foremost I wanted more brightness and contrast as the E5000's was deliberately manufactured to have duller displays thanthe E6400 ULTRA and up... and with almost 20 years time, they start to fade as well... I actually ordered white on black at first, but that was damaged in freight, so he sent another one, and I changed to white on blue which I am happy with, since it gives good contrast to the black surrounding the display... I also fitted a Microtech PCD25BH SCSI to PCMCIA drive instead of the floppy drive, so now I am happily saving banks on CF card via an adapter.
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Ahhh yes... as always, I end up changing things, and this time it's no exception... I cannot live with samplers alone, I need some synthesis, so I have decided to have a few more than I first decided... 8 is the magic number, and I'm going to find an ADAT converter at some point to give me the last four stereo channels... I just received a RME Fireface UCX today, and also an ADI-2 for an extra analog channel... These interfaces and converters are a bit expensive, but I think it is worth it... I could clearly hear the difference in the converters when I tried the UCX today, that is for sure.
The Synths I've decided to keep are: V-Synth XT, E5000 Ultra, Prophet 12 and FS1R.
I also purchased an older synth from 1995 yesterday that I did not know much about... the Technics WSA1R... a pretty rare synth that was not made in that many numbers. It is the rack version that I found, and the synthesis is a mixture of PCM and Acoustic Modelling... the PCM samples are used as "exciters" or "drivers"... and then they are run thru DSP that compute the "resonators"... it's not as extended as the Yamaha VL synthesis (thank god!), but instead it offers 64 voices, and the ability to mix and match the drivers and resonators, and with four layers.
The guy I got it from bought it new 20 years ago, and actually never used it all those years, so the machine is mint which is rather exceptional, and I got it extremely cheap too. Looking forward to see what it can do, but it is said to be formiddable at doing ambient drones and pads, and that is exactly what I want from it.
A few demos:
https://youtu.be/uzCaqFb4WhQ
https://youtu.be/ai3hFuYSQ9s
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It certainly looks nice.
I have always liked the look of Technics stuff, never seen one of those before though.
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It certainly looks nice.
I have always liked the look of Technics stuff, never seen one of those before though.
I think that I read it's the only synth Technics ever did (I don't know if that is right though), and that they hurt them selves economically quite badly because it was extremely expensive to produce... it is a rare synth, I believe I saw somewhere that about 300 WSA1r's was made only... but again... I'm not sure about this, it's just what "the internet say"
I hope it's good... otherwise I did not pay much for it, so I'll live if it do not.
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To my ears it has that kind of "Wavestation" like tone about it, though the synthesis is quite different... I bet this is because of the PCM drivers, as Wavestation is also PCM based... on top of that it also has an XY ball that allow for morphing between layers,l which further add to the Wavestation like sound... the secret weapon (as I see it) is the acoustic modelling though because that is unique for this synth... you can make some quite convining plucked sounds and EP sounds I've read (and heard), but the sounds that impress me the most are the drones and pads.
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Yeah I agree, I listened to some of the youtube stuff and also thought of the Wavestation, definitely something similar.
Looks like a nice synth, I will be interested on how you get on with it.
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A short update on the studio...
I have decided, as I'm doing only Ambient music these days, that I'll withdraw all MIDI connections to my DAW, and simply play my synths live from a keyboard, recording them thru audio in my DAW... it gives a more less "programmed" feel to the overall compositions since it's more varied, and nothing will be copy/pasted at all... I've gotten used to working this way now, and I am fine with it... I still have two MIDI connections from the computer in case I need to dump sounds or edit my Prophet 12 from an editor when creating presets, but this is a process done separately from composing.
But to do this, I needed another MIDI keyboard controller, because as I want between 4 and 8 synths to play around with, I cannot connect more than one to my current Roland A-49 controller, so I would have to get a MIDI THRU device to hook up more on different MIDI channels.
But there is something about the A-49 I do not like... first off, it does not have aftertouch, second, it's keys seem a bit shorter than a standard keyboard... also I feel it's a little too stiff... I'm used to playing synth actian, and I tend to miss notes on that behalf... it's just not a controller for me, though I liked the fact that it has a built in D-Beam controller... but I can live without that.
So I've looked for a GOOD keyboard controller that also has more octaves and a better feel... unfortunately such keyboard is not made these days... it's sad really... all controller keyboard are SHIT! (pardon my french).
But I managed to locate a Roland A-70 yesterday, which has one of the best synth action keybeds ever made in my opinion, it has 76 keys, and even four MIDI outputs which is PERFECT for what I need... on top it has a wery well adjusted aftertuch that is not like other Roland keybeds, where you have to break your fingers to get it, anf has plenty of both sliders, levers and mod/pitch wheels... it also has two MIDI inputs to connect external controllers and sequencers, which is exactly what I need from my DAW to send dumps to the synths.
Only problem is it's size... it will practically take up ALL the space on my studiotable, and block the three lowest units in the rackpanels right behind it... so I need to raise all synths up on the monitor shelf, and find a solution for the keyboard and mouse to my DAW... that'll be a bit of a challenge.
It has to be done though... if I am to play live, it's very important to have a superb keybed to work with, and the A-70 will deliver on that... it also has a build in tone generator for piano sounds via an optional card, but I'll probably not use it... may even sell it.
So yes... the Waldorf Quantum has been dropped ... it is too expensive for what it does, the P12 I have can do much of the same stuff though they are not the same and has 4 voices more... so that's one of my keepers in the studio... if the Quantum ever comes as a module, I may jump it... otherwise not.
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The A-70 has that nice Fatar TP/8* action; I may eventually end up with one if I don't end up building something similar first.
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Only problem is it's size... it will practically take up ALL the space on my studiotable, and block the three lowest units in the rackpanels right behind it...
How about a keyboard stand and having the keyboard on the side? If you can live with using two keyboards a KMI K-board or QuNexus controller can be used while sitting in front of the computer and the big keyboard when you are playing music. Also, KMI will release their K-Board Pro 4 full sized keyboard controller in the autumn and it will feature MPE support while still being quite compact.
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The A-70 has that nice Fatar TP/8* action; I may eventually end up with one if I don't end up building something similar first.
Funny... I thought I had seen that somewhere, but could not find any info on it ... are you 100% certin it is that Fatar TP/8? ... the same as in the Virus Ti series and some other synths?
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Only problem is it's size... it will practically take up ALL the space on my studiotable, and block the three lowest units in the rackpanels right behind it...
How about a keyboard stand and having the keyboard on the side? If you can live with using two keyboards a KMI K-board or QuNexus controller can be used while sitting in front of the computer and the big keyboard when you are playing music. Also, KMI will release their K-Board Pro 4 full sized keyboard controller in the autumn and it will feature MPE support while still being quite compact.
That is currently in my thoughts... but only if I cannot find a way to place my keyboard and mouse because I have to make a very compact setup, as I have my studio table in my livingroom... so if I can avoid taking up space for a 76key monster to my right, I would like that... it may be the only solution though... and if that happens, I'd probably get an XKey 37 for the studio table, just to have something in front of me when using the computer DAW a lot... like creating presets for example... I'll just have to see what I come up with :)
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According to FATAR's own homepage, there are three versions... THE TP8/PIANO, TP8/S and TP8/SK.
The PIANO version is weighted, and has waterfall style keys.
The TP8/S and TP8SK are both meant for synthesizers, but I'm unaware as to what other differences they have, exept that the TP8/S has a bit longer keys, and the black ones are flat... the SK's black keys are slightly curved at the back, curving downwards.
After looking at the A-70 pictures on the net, it's clear that the black keys are flat, so it must be the TP8/S version.
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A short update (again)...
I sent back the RME Fireface UCX... for some reason I wanted more inputs for a short while, until I started to think hard about what I really needed... What I really need is only one stereo analog input and output, since I'm recording with HD recording one layer at a time (I'll just use a patchbay to change sounds source).... for a brief period, I wanted to go back to MIDI recording, but I dropped that idear again.
So I returned the UCX, and when the money return, I'll be ordering an RME ADI-2 Pro instead... it's even more expensive, but it has superior converters with down to -120dB signal to noise ratios, so it's truly state of the art conversion... also I get two digital I/O's which will be neat for external FX units... it even has a built in asynchronous high quality sample rate converter that can be switched on either of the digital inputs, allowing me to connect digital equipment that do not have slaving capabilities (like my Roland V-Synth XT)... on top of that it will have Dynamics, EQ and all, and use the rock solid drivers of the MadiFace system.
It is one really expensive interface costing in the neighborhood of what en 8voice REV2 cost... but hey... the sound quality matters, so I want the best within my limits...
Also... I have only two synths left now, the rest has been sold... I'm tired of hoarding, and want ONLY synths that offer something TRULY unique to me, and not just 10% unique... it must be at least 66% unique or even more... If I can partially do it with other gear I've got, I don't need it.
So I'm selling my E5000 Ultra again... the V-Synth can do most of what it does, and much more... only polyphony is an isue but I'll live... the second synth is the Prophet 12... there really are no other like it, with as many synthesis types... VA, FM, Wavetable and semi modular patchcord capabilities... and even with analog filters... so I do not need a separate Wavetable or FM synth... P12 will do the timbres good enough... the WSA1R I just bought has allready been sold again... it was cool, but offered me nothing special I could not get close to with the V-Synth XT.
Basically there is nothing right now that has my interest other than these two... except maybe the Quantum for the Resonator and Granular synthesis, but I do not have the space for it... if a module version comes up, that will be my next synth.
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Finally got the ADI-2 Pro home... what a device... it's very restricted in it's amount of connectivity, but what it does it does REALLY well... -120dB converters, up to 768kHz (which I'll never use), DSD sampling and playback (which I'll never use)...
What I like about this converter is the sound... I can clearly hear a difference to earlier converters I've had, even RME... the sound is just more open, airy, and transients much clearer... even at 44.1kHz. I'm going to use a patchbay with the analog input since I'm HD recording in layers anyway, that way I get most out of my synths and the converter.
Another aspect I like about it is the Headphone output... it's a high End output, with an additional High Power mode for extreme output... I have no option but to make music in headphones these days, so that is really nice... Someday I'll get a pair of Sennheiser HD-800 to go along with it.
Lastly, the USB functionality is really good. Solid drivers that just WORK, all the way down to 32samples of latency without clicks and pops... it's on par with what a PCIe interface can do.
I'm also down to using only two synths at the moment... P12 and V-Synth XT... two more will be bought later, the first most likely a Novation Peak.
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I'm guessing that it is sampling at a much higher sample rate even when you are running at 44.1, also every component in it is high spec. Not that I'm jealous or anything ;)
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I'm guessing that it is sampling at a much higher sample rate even when you are running at 44.1, also every component in it is high spec. Not that I'm jealous or anything ;)
Yup... it's running at insanely high speeds internally... you can even change the type of aliasing filtering it uses internally when it's converting... when it's doing 256 DSD its above 15 megahertz if I remember correctly. and yes... only the best components is used... this actually show that what some people see as "better sound" at higher sampling rates has to do with the quality of the converter... even 44.1 KHz sounds awesome... so much that I have a hard time hearing any difference between 44.1 and 96 KHz... if I hear a difference it's not in the sample conversion directly, it's more likely to be the higher processing rate... I have started to use only plugins for EQ, Dynamics and Reverb/FX, and I can hear a more smooth and open/airy reverb tail on Valhalla Shimmer for example (at 96KHz compared to 44.1KHz)... but sometimes it's hard to tell if it's placebo.
Anyway, I'm going to run at 48KHz (because of some slightly better filtering in the upper frequency spectrum that 44.1KHz does not allow)... everything will be turned into MP3 in the end anyway, so I cannot see the use for 96KHZ (and above) unless I'm composing for a DVD which use the higher sample rate of 96KHz.
My main reason for getting this was of course both the nice AD conversion, but also the DA... I want the best possible listening experience on headphones (HD-800 when I get a pair one day) thus I wanted the Hi End headphone outs as well... and it allready shows with a pair of HD-650 that I have now... playing some Dark Ambient tracks I've heard before on these headphones suddenly had this clear and open sound, with "crystaline" highs... even the tiniest little "click" just jumped out at you.
You could argue if it's worth the price... the ADI-2 Pro is definitely NOT an inexpensive converter box... costing me more than what a Novation Peak would... but I'm happy... and I'm extremely happy to have a box outside of the DAW now... the AIO card (also RME) which I used before had serious noise problems from the video card and mouse etc.
Oh... and one more cool thing I always wanted... an external frequency spectrum meter... the small colour display on the ADI-2 Pro is really crisp and clear, and I can see all sorts of analyzing data in realtime, free from having to use software on the DAW for this... it's always right there in front of me for checking :)
Perfectly happy with this box...
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Lucky you, Razmo! It sounds like an awesome converter! . o O ( envy )
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Well... the ADI-2 Pro was simply overkill, so I sent it back... I think the ADI-2 sounds just as good (I'm not an infant anymore, I can't hear the difference much :D) ... ordered this today... perfect for my Ambient productions, and it will do reverbs with more than 200 seconds in length, so that should be Ambient Heaven :)
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OOPS! :D
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I'm beginning to find it hard to keep up!
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I'm beginning to find it hard to keep up!
With my changes to my studio? ... don't try, I hardly can myself :D
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Well... maybe I should explain my new plans (hopefully my last):
I recently had to accept, that I simply end up "dead" in programming music... that is all that copy/paste you have to do in an arrangement... I usually create small loops in layers on top of each other, and when a riff is done, I simply loose all interest in spreading that riff out, and create the arrangement (bridges, pauses etc.)... IF I once in a while get something done that last more than 3 minutes, the last 75% bored me and end up being "so so"... I realize now, that the only way I'm going to get fun from making something to the end, is by PLAYING it all to the end... in one go... that is; jammin' the whole score in one go, sampling the resulting stereo track.
It irritates me that it has taken so long to realize that I'm a performance kind of musician, and not the programming type which I've been for now more than 25 years... but that's just how it is, and now I have to create a specific kind of studio setup to allow me to do just this... and at the same time not get too complicated since limitations always made me fokus better.
So HD recording is out of the question, as this only allow for layering one track at a time... but on the other hand, I can not play all myself at one time... so now MIDI sequencers will be the answer to this... hopefully with time it'll be a hardware sequencer, but until then, my computer will do.
Thus my plan is to use a small format hardware analog mixer, and I've recently ordered one that I know, the Mackie ONYX 1220... this will give me 8 synths connected, 4 mono and 4 stereo which is fine.
The 4 mono synths will be monophonic analogue synths that will be doing basslines, arps and other accompagnement synth loops... the synths has been decided allready... Dreadbox Hades, Erebus, Nyx and the coming Medusa... i like their character, they offer something unique each of them, and they are all hands on with few controls as to not stop the creative flow completely.
The 4 stereo synths will be connected directly to my new Roland motherkeyboard that has four MIDI outs... they will be played live on top of the 4 monosynths that is being sequenced... I will then fade different tracks in and out by moving faders and switching buttons on the mixer directly while performing... much in the way Klaus Shultze is working I guess.
For the ambient music I want to make, I need a pro reverb and delay... the ONYX mixer has two mono sends which fits the PCM92 nicely... it has got 4 "blocks" that can be assigned two by two for each input (L/R)... this will serve all my FX needs in addition to the synths own FX.
Four guitar pedals or other analog FX will be assigned to the inserts of the 4 mono channels on a "per score" basis...
That is basically it... it will also make it easier to make performance videos later for YouTube etc.
The four stereo synths will be V-Synth XT, Prophet 12, PEAK and one more to come (not decided, as it does not exist yet).
More monosynths may be obtained, as they can easily be swapped as "per project" .. they do not need editors or presets or anything...
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I'm beginning to find it hard to keep up!
With my changes to my studio? ... don't try, I hardly can myself :D
Yep with the changes, it's all too quick for my mind :)
I recently had to accept, that I simply end up "dead" in programming music... that is all that copy/paste you have to do in an arrangement... I usually create small loops in layers on top of each other, and when a riff is done, I simply loose all interest in spreading that riff out, and create the arrangement (bridges, pauses etc.)... IF I once in a while get something done that last more than 3 minutes, the last 75% bored me and end up being "so so"... I realize now, that the only way I'm going to get fun from making something to the end, is by PLAYING it all to the end... in one go... that is; jammin' the whole score in one go, sampling the resulting stereo track.
I'm exactly the same with me, but that takes planning.
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I recently had to accept, that I simply end up "dead" in programming music... that is all that copy/paste you have to do in an arrangement... I usually create small loops in layers on top of each other, and when a riff is done, I simply loose all interest in spreading that riff out, and create the arrangement (bridges, pauses etc.)... IF I once in a while get something done that last more than 3 minutes, the last 75% bored me and end up being "so so"...
I think that kind of "self-induced boredom" in the creative process is more common than you think... one possible solution to that has always been collaboration.
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Yep that's the solution.
When I lived in London I had loads of people to play with, constantly doing different gigs with different people.
Now I live in the back end of beyond and all I have are hundreds and hundreds of "ideas" saved on disk.
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I recently had to accept, that I simply end up "dead" in programming music... that is all that copy/paste you have to do in an arrangement... I usually create small loops in layers on top of each other, and when a riff is done, I simply loose all interest in spreading that riff out, and create the arrangement (bridges, pauses etc.)... IF I once in a while get something done that last more than 3 minutes, the last 75% bored me and end up being "so so"...
I think that kind of "self-induced boredom" in the creative process is more common than you think... one possible solution to that has always been collaboration.
I would say yes to that... but I am extremely bad in collaborating because I'm VERY personal as an artist... I simply loose interest in the project, if the collaborating artist does something to the project that I would have done otherwise... very selfish ... I know... but that's just not changeable... so I'm afraid that I'm on my own here :/
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I guess I'd have to add, that I'm born with High Functional Autism... which is probably part of the collaboration problem, cause I really do fine (and best) when I do things on my own... that's just how I am :)
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Now I live in the back end of beyond and all I have are hundreds and hundreds of "ideas" saved on disk.
That's what the internet is for... collaborate with other folks and never have to leave BFE (or wherever you are).
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I guess I'd have to add, that I'm born with High Functional Autism... which is probably part of the collaboration problem, cause I really do fine (and best) when I do things on my own... that's just how I am :)
Understood. Then collaborate with yourself. What I mean is, record some ideas and stop when it gets interesting / before you get bored. Move on to something else. Come back to it a week later, record some more, stop before you get bored... etc.
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I guess I'd have to add, that I'm born with High Functional Autism... which is probably part of the collaboration problem, cause I really do fine (and best) when I do things on my own... that's just how I am :)
Understood. Then collaborate with yourself. What I mean is, record some ideas and stop when it gets interesting / before you get bored. Move on to something else. Come back to it a week later, record some more, stop before you get bored... etc.
Sometimes it's really hard to collaborate even with myself :D ... I see what you mean, and I'll write that behind me ear... but surely... it'll be darn hard to do, if I'm all up'n'into it! :D
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Then collaborate with yourself.
That's actually a really good idea, if you're not able to collaborate with others or choose to not collaborate with anyone. The key strategy here involves being able to treat what you've already done as if someone else did it, so that you're either not becoming too attached to something that might keep you from moving forward or not too immersed within a certain framework that keeps you from gaining a fresh view on what you've already done.
You could also, in addition to that, approach people you trust and ask them for feedback.
Another approach would be to ask yourself why you get bored. Is the process too easy? Too hard? Are there not enough challenges to keep your attention? Are there too many? Is what you're aiming for really what you wanna do or just something you enjoy as a genre while you would be better at something else? In other words: are you playing to your strengths?
And roughly related to that: Does it have to be a bad thing that you mostly end up being convinced only by parts or pieces that last up to 3 minutes? Couldn't you turn that into a form, like working on musical vignettes?
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Understood. Then collaborate with yourself. What I mean is, record some ideas and stop when it gets interesting / before you get bored. Move on to something else. Come back to it a week later, record some more, stop before you get bored... etc.
Basically the same problem as with writing and/or designing: distance is needed before one can evaluate and edit the work.
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Understood. Then collaborate with yourself. What I mean is, record some ideas and stop when it gets interesting / before you get bored. Move on to something else. Come back to it a week later, record some more, stop before you get bored... etc.
Basically the same problem as with writing and/or designing: distance is needed before one can evaluate and edit the work.
Right. Editing and publishing is in fact the professional field where I learned the most about collaborating with myself. Well that and actual teamwork, be it professional or artistic.
And there's of course a reason why Eno's and Schmidt's "Oblique Strategies" have been so successful. A source that could be considered as well in this case. (I know this reference might seem a bit trite these days, but I still know people who find the "Oblique Strategies" very helpful or even come up with new ones, like the Ableton trainer who does the "Sonic Bloom" website. It's also not like all of these cards have become well-known clichés by now. So there are still quite a few cards in that collection that should be able to catch you off guard.)
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You're probably all right in your views on this, but you are overlooking one major aspect of my "problem"... the problem is that I enjoy the LIVE PROCESS, and when the process becomes boring (as in PROGRAMING the arrangement), I quit... no endorphines released to keep the focus...
That is a skill i do not have... that "taken for granted" skill to keep on working, even though I feel bored with what I'm doing... that's a major difficulty for autistic people in general... if stuff does not interest me, I quit and do what DOES interest me... which in my case is starting something new and exiting... that is why I end up with loads of riffs, but VERY FEW finished longer projects. Going back to a riff to work on it? yes, tried it many times, I never get the urge to mess with them again, I'd rather start out something completely new... that will be where my focus are, and I am unable to shift it (compare it to kids waiting to open Christmas presents... really hard to shift focus!).
But I also know that it is not a time limit... it's not because I cannot do 10 minute or even 70 minute scores, I just need to ENJOY it all the way thru... and the only thing I really enjoy about music making is playing to backing tracks... but I grow bored if I have to create 70 minutes of backing tracks, track by track... it has to be fun, and cutting and pasting, and scrolling and editing is just not fun. Neither is recording one instrument at a time for 10-70 minutes.
I have no problem layering small loops, track by track until a climax-loop has been done... i could create dosens of these in one day and have fun with it... this is why I hope that making short sequenced loops and playing to these live will allow me to have more fun creating the whole arrangement as a play along, changing things along the go... I know that you get some limitations using this technique, and that it demands some good live skills, but that's just a challenge, not boring... it makes a track a bit more chaotic, more human with imperfections etc.. but that can be ok as well, I've seen lots of people jammin' like this on the net.
Summa summarum; I like PLAYING, not editing... I enjoy the PROCESS of playing live... I dislike programming an arrangement, I want to PERFORM it.
Hope this clears things up a bit... :)
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I've been reading this with interest, because dealing with tedious tasks is something that I've faced, as well.
The way I see it, one of the differences between a professional pursuit and an amateur one is that the professional always must carry on through the tedious parts of his or her craft. The amateur has a choice.
The older I get, the less I want to deal with tedious parts of musical pursuits. I value enjoyment over the breadth of things my instrument can do. I don't care about "covering all the bases" anymore.
There's one tedious thing that I'm still willing to do, and that's notation. MuseScore and QuNexus make this easier than it used to be. And notation is (for me) absolutely non-negotiable.
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Summa summarum; I like PLAYING, not editing... I enjoy the PROCESS of playing live... I dislike programming an arrangement, I want to PERFORM it.
Hope this clears things up a bit... :)
It does! - And having to create 70 minutes of backing tracks and cutting and pasting, and scrolling and editing is indeed no fun all by itself.
But as you clearly prefer the live and performing aspect of making music, you should just continue to focus on mastering the devices you use live and/or look for loopers that could make that situation easier for you, like the Pigtronix Infinity Looper for example, if you don't mind using your feet as well. Most of the more advanced looper pedals allow for layering, jumping back and forth, adding and deleting loops in real time, and more. I don't know what you already use in that regard, but that would be one technical suggestion. The more you are able to perform with virtuosity on such devices, the more you can just perform a whole arrangement live. And if you want to share one of those instant compositions afterwards, you might only have to cut the beginning and the end of the recording, render the file, and you'd be done. That way you could keep editing necessities to a bare minimum and move on after 5 minutes.
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Summa summarum; I like PLAYING, not editing... I enjoy the PROCESS of playing live... I dislike programming an arrangement, I want to PERFORM it.
Hope this clears things up a bit... :)
It does! - And having to create 70 minutes of backing tracks and cutting and pasting, and scrolling and editing is indeed no fun all by itself.
But as you clearly prefer the live and performing aspect of making music, you should just continue to focus on mastering the devices you use live and/or look for loopers that could make that situation easier for you, like the Pigtronix Infinity Looper for example, if you don't mind using your feet as well. Most of the more advanced looper pedals allow for layering, jumping back and forth, adding and deleting loops in real time, and more. I don't know what you already use in that regard, but that would be one technical suggestion. The more you are able to perform with virtuosity on such devices, the more you can just perform a whole arrangement live. And if you want to share one of those instant compositions afterwards, you might only have to cut the beginning and the end of the recording, render the file, and you'd be done. That way you could keep editing necessities to a bare minimum and move on after 5 minutes.
Exactly :)
I have been thinking about loopers many times, but honestly have never tried one out... maybe such a looper (as a pedal for example) inserted into the inserts of my four mono channels could be an additional way to "sequence" the four monosynths, and then still have all the filters, sends etc. from the channels adjustable on the fly.. in fact it would allow for better capture of wild performance controls like bender, wheels, footpedals etc. than a simple sequencer would.... I could actually have both active at the same time if I wanted to, and I'd be able to overdub the same synth more than once making polyrhythms with the monophonic sources... cool idear! thanx! I'll surely look into that!
The four stereo synths on the other hand I do not want to sequence or loop... they are meant to be the four sounds that I want to play live or trigger as drones, so sequencers or loopers are not needed here.
I guess that the only thing I'll be needing in addition now that I think of it, is some way to introduce percussion and sound FX... that would have to be sequenced for percussion, and vocal phrases/sound FX must be triggered from some pads on the fly... I may have to sacrifice one stereo channel for this device... only irritating thing about such a device is that it will do more than one sound, and all played from it will be run thru the same amount of external FX on that channel, unless I get a device that has it's own FX, with it's own internal send parameters etc... but then I cannot make the individual sounds part of my external PCM92 reverb... I'll have to think this over a bit...
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I've been reading this with interest, because dealing with tedious tasks is something that I've faced, as well.
The way I see it, one of the differences between a professional pursuit and an amateur one is that the professional always must carry on through the tedious parts of his or her craft. The amateur has a choice.
The older I get, the less I want to deal with tedious parts of musical pursuits. I value enjoyment over the breadth of things my instrument can do. I don't care about "covering all the bases" anymore.
There's one tedious thing that I'm still willing to do, and that's notation. MuseScore and QuNexus make this easier than it used to be. And notation is (for me) absolutely non-negotiable.
That pretty much sums my "problem" up :) ... except that I need to feel that I get something finished... which makes this a bit of a curse sometimes really... I've been searching for "the way" for more than 25 years now actually... I hope I find the way ... soon! :D
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Razmo, Do you have any samples of your music? That might help some of us develop some creative ideas / solutions...
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Well... I finally found out what it is that I need for sequencing my four monophonic synths... two Doepfer Dark Time sequencers.
I realize, that if I am to play live, I have to have as few devices with a lot of menus, so getting MIDI sequencers is not really the way to go, if they sport displays and all... I need to have all available on the front panel, just as with the four monosynths... Dark Time will give me what I need, and the ability to actually change the sequence quite easily from the front panel... switching notes in and out, and transposing stuff on the fly...
At the same time I'll be able to finally get completely rid of the computer in the equation, which is something I've been wanting for a long time... It will probably feel a little strange in the beginning since I am used to allways having a screen in front of me, and a keyboard and mouse... on the other hand I'll be looking forward to NOT having these take up space... they are always the problem when it comes to having a mother keyboard anyway.
This means I'll be able to put tabletop racks where my monitor was standing before, giving me better access to modules, sequencers etc.
I may still want to try a looper someday... it may be handy, but I'd rather use analog sequencers... they will also supply me with rock solid timing compared to USB MIDI interfaces as I have been using until now.
I actually believe this will work out nicely :D
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And when it comes to the four stereo poly synths, the A-70 mother keyboard I recently purchased fit my needs like a glove... it has four individual MIDI outputs, which is exactly what is needed for the four stereo synths, and the comprehensive setups of the A-70 makes it possible to split and layer these any way I want on it's 76 keys, which is absolutely cool when I need to play them live... I could divide the keys into four zones, and mix/split them any way imaginable... there is actually two inputs on the A-70 as well, where one input functions as a MIDI controller input where I can connect any other MIDI controller I want, like pads, knobs or even a breath controller or second keyboard... the second input can be routed to any output, and is perfect, if you wanted to use a MIDI sequencer, and route it to one of the four stereo synths... the A-70 is ideal for the task at hand in my case :) ... and the keys simply are amazing to play... best I've ever tried.
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Razmo, Do you have any samples of your music? That might help some of us develop some creative ideas / solutions...
I'll see if I can make a short compilation one of the next days :) but in general, I do not have much in the Dark Ambient genre I intend to do most of... but I'll still do other genres as well, just mostly downtempo stuff if it has any rhythm to it...
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I realize that getting analog sequencers is not really possible, as I simply do not have the space for them... it's that simple.
So I'll use my computers sequencer instead, there really is not that big a difference anyway, and I could use this in the same looped style as an analog sequencer as well...
As can be seen on the foto below of my studio right now, there is not much space left... everything simply HAS to fit this setup, and four Dark Time sequencers along with four dreadbox analog synths will just not fit.... i can fit the four synths on the desktop to the left, and that is what I will do.
I just got the Mackie ONYX 1220 mixer and Lexicon PCM92 today, as can be seen in the foto as well, so now I'm waiting to get the Dreadbox Hades home soon.
It feels quite good to be back using a mixer, and that PCM92 simply sounds amazing...
So right now the following stuff is on my list of things to get:
Dreadbox - Erebus
Dreadbox - Nyx
Dreadbox - Medusa (new, wont be available until december)
Novation - PEAK
Elektron - DigiTakt
other than that, one more stereo synth, but I still do not know which... NAMM may show...
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other than that, one more stereo synth, but I still do not know which... NAMM may show...
Keep that as your "dream slot" and let it open for an interesting machine should it one day show up. In that way you can always do gear hunt and at the same time work with what you got.
Regarding the Dreadbox machines I would suggest getting one of them and see how it works for you. As awesome as they are they could very well end up being restocking fee candidates after a while.
And then make music with the stuff you got now! ;)
PS: Great idea to use that table as your studio size limiter. Keeps your setup focused!
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other than that, one more stereo synth, but I still do not know which... NAMM may show...
Keep that as your "dream slot" and let it open for an interesting machine should it one day show up. In that way you can always do gear hunt and at the same time work with what you got.
Regarding the Dreadbox machines I would suggest getting one of them and see how it works for you. As awesome as they are they could very well end up being restocking fee candidates after a while.
And then make music with the stuff you got now! ;)
PS: Great idea to use that table as your studio size limiter. Keeps your setup focused!
Exactly what I had in mind... keeping that stereo slot "open" for something in the future... Still hoping for something sampling related from DSI, but anything could do... but it should REALLY tickle my GAS to be let into the studio.
Regarding the dreadboxes... yes... I've got a Hades coming very soon, and yes, I'll see how I like using it... I'm not in doubt about the sound of this series of synths, as they sound characterful and unique, the whole question will be if I can accept that I have to dial in presets every time I use them... but they have all on the front panel, nothing is hidden anywhere under the hood, and they are specialized with few controls... so I hope that will work for me... I'd really like to use these as "sequenced gear" rather than actually playing them from a keyboard... but still... the space needed for four Dark Times I do not have... it's that simple... but my PC sequencer is capable of functioning as a sequencer for all my gear... but I would have liked to work with an analog sequencer where I can switch in notes anytime via switches, change step durations on the fly, loop positions etc. etc... it was the live element of this that attracted me... I may get ONE Dark Time some day, just to try it out...
Making music with what I got right now will be rather minimal... I have two synths :D ... three when the Hades arrives... hardly enough to make anything, but I've decided to give it a go anyway, getting as much out of what I've got.
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Well you could synthesize your drums on the Prophet 12 and then use that as a backing track. Would be a good place to start!
Also, returning to an above mentioned topic of which types of studio workflows work for you. Think of it as a programming exercise! You know how the underlying mechanisms are working so use that as a creative limitation and figure out various hybrid techniques that keeps you interested all the way. I am sure you can find creative and more cost effective solutions if you take your time to prototype your workflow.
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the space needed for four Dark Times I do not have...
I own 1 Dark Time, it is a great tool to create random patterns through "mistakes": reversing loops, cutting loops short, etc. etc. But you need a set of something like this: http://www.microminiatures.co.uk/acatalog/Toggle_Switch_Covers.html to color code the switches. I managed to find a few in a train model store.
There are problems though with the Dark Time: something seems off with the pitch when turning the knobs, also, I think there is a bug that prevents you from setting different MIDI channels for the top and bottom row of 8 steps, I am hassling Doepfer about this, I think it needs a firmware update.
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the space needed for four Dark Times I do not have...
I own 1 Dark Time, it is a great tool to create random patterns through "mistakes": reversing loops, cutting loops short, etc. etc. But you need a set of something like this: http://www.microminiatures.co.uk/acatalog/Toggle_Switch_Covers.html to color code the switches. I managed to find a few in a train model store.
There are problems though with the Dark Time: something seems off with the pitch when turning the knobs, also, I think there is a bug that prevents you from setting different MIDI channels for the top and bottom row of 8 steps, I am hassling Doepfer about this, I think it needs a firmware update.
Thank you for that info... that's a bit disappointing about the MIDI channels because then it gets a bit problematic controlling two different synths... anyway, I do not think I will run into a MIDI channel problem since my plans are to only get one, and slave it to my DAW sequencer... my other gear will be controlled using my DAW so it's important that a Dark Time will sync to the DAW sequencer... only thing is, that when I do this, the point of using one begins to fade... I would probably just be better off controlling all from my DAW sequencer...
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The second member of the family is now underway to my home... the Dreadbox Erebus.
I've been playing with the Hades now for some days, and I feel that this is what I'm looking for... 100% hands on control, but simple specialized synths, so that programing them as part of the composing process is musically intuitive (tailoring a sound from scratch, and exactly to the score I'm working on)... therefore I need few controls.
Displays and menus is now a thing of the past for me... I simply do not want to program presets containing hundreds of parameters... it takes too much time, it bores me...
So my studio will soon be a 100% analog one, with only the FX box being digital (the PCM92 which I recently bought)... arrangement will be done via computer though, as this is the most flexible... cut'n'paste or not.
My V-Synth XT and P12 is now for sale, as they will fund a Dreadbox Abyss and Nyx... so it's goodbye DSI (unless they start to make 100% analog synths, which I hardly think they ever will).
...so I guess I'm now a Dreadbox guy... I like their sound (dirty, fat and dusty oldschool analog sound), I like their layout and form factor, and I like the fact that each of them covers a distinct sonic territory.
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I have said before that I can't keep up :)
Interesting that you are thinking of getting rid of the P12 and v-Synth.
I'm thinking of a total purge of stuff here, the P12, P2 and Tempest are on the list of sale items but the VSynth XT I was thinking of making centre stage in the desk rack underneath my monitor and behind the linnstrument.
My list of sale items has become quite huge, a major clear out...
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How come both of you want to sell your DSI instruments? Is that because of sound, features or something else?
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I have said before that I can't keep up :)
Interesting that you are thinking of getting rid of the P12 and v-Synth.
I'm thinking of a total purge of stuff here, the P12, P2 and Tempest are on the list of sale items but the VSynth XT I was thinking of making centre stage in the desk rack underneath my monitor and behind the linnstrument.
My list of sale items has become quite huge, a major clear out...
Sometimes you just need a change I guess... in my case it may be partly that... computer interaction just does not tempt me anymore... loads of parameters to adjust for hours before being satisfied with a preset... all the problems with SysEx specifications and editors... all the messing around with dumping samples back and forth... I need more instant gratification, with on the fly editing (fast)... I still want to do Ambient music, but also general electronic music with melodies and basslines... Berlin School styles... Space Music etc... it will just have to be done with analog and hands-on equipment. I may get limited, but limitations seems to inspire me... I think it is a left over from my early days of making music with the Commodore 64 SID chip and AMIGA computer... a more minimalistic approach... so that has been decided ... the P12 and V-Synth has to go...
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How come both of you want to sell your DSI instruments? Is that because of sound, features or something else?
In my case it is because there are too many parameters to tweak when I want to create sounds from scratch while composing... I really want to create unique sounds for every project instead of having to browse hundreds of sounds before I find something useful that anyway needs a little tweaking to fit the song... on top of that, because the P12 does not (logically) have all parameters on the front... I do not want to edit using menus...
There is nothing wrong with the P12... it just does not fit the workflow I want anymore... I want to replace it with a Dreadbox Abyss instead, to get polyphonic playing.
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In my case it is because there are too many parameters to tweak when I want to create sounds from scratch while composing... I really want to create unique sounds for every project instead of having to browse hundreds of sounds before I find something useful that anyway needs a little tweaking to fit the song... on top of that, because the P12 does not (logically) have all parameters on the front... I do not want to edit using menus...
Oh I do get that. But as someone who believes there are more ways to create synthesizer sounds than simple knob turning there are other options out there. As far as sysex format documentation goes I do consider that problem mostly solved. Still have to ask for all the information required though.
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How come both of you want to sell your DSI instruments? Is that because of sound, features or something else?
Well I am getting rid of a fair amount of stuff, it is too cluttered here and I just don't use it all.
Since getting the boards of my P2 and P12 repaired by DSI I still haven't got round to putting the repaired PCBs back in! So I guess it is time for them to go once I get the PCBs installed.
The Tempest doesn't get used that much so thats on the list as well.
The PEK is staying though.
I'm also getting rid of all my old rack based synths (roland and e-mu stuff), the Kronos 88, Voyager, Virus TI, Karp odyssey, Korg MS20, All four Elektron boxes and loads of guitar based gear, Kemper, Roland GR33, VG88, VG99, GP10, and SY300.
And I'm going to get a Kurzweil, need to look into that maybe a Forte and also a Modal 002.
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I have said before that I can't keep up :)
Interesting that you are thinking of getting rid of the P12 and v-Synth.
I'm thinking of a total purge of stuff here, the P12, P2 and Tempest are on the list of sale items but the VSynth XT I was thinking of making centre stage in the desk rack underneath my monitor and behind the linnstrument.
My list of sale items has become quite huge, a major clear out...
Sometimes you just need a change I guess... in my case it may be partly that... computer interaction just does not tempt me anymore... loads of parameters to adjust for hours before being satisfied with a preset... all the problems with SysEx specifications and editors... all the messing around with dumping samples back and forth... I need more instant gratification, with on the fly editing (fast)... I still want to do Ambient music, but also general electronic music with melodies and basslines... Berlin School styles... Space Music etc... it will just have to be done with analog and hands-on equipment. I may get limited, but limitations seems to inspire me... I think it is a left over from my early days of making music with the Commodore 64 SID chip and AMIGA computer... a more minimalistic approach... so that has been decided ... the P12 and V-Synth has to go...
I get your point, looking to simplify things here as well. Maybe it's an age thing ;)
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It's strange... but the less gear, and the less complicated it is, the more I get the urge to use it... tweak it... get the most out of it... if I got it all it starts to become hard to focus on it all, get the big overview and being too technically complicated. I guess the saying "keep it simple stupid!" is my wakeup call :)
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Well I am getting rid of a fair amount of stuff, it is too cluttered here and I just don't use it all.
Wow that quite a late summer studio cleanup! Wish I could afford your P12M. Very happy to see you keep your PEK and that you opt for a Modal 002. Interesting machines! Oh and the delayed PCB install is quite a good indicator of time for a change. But of cause that could also be a sign of being very very busy.
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I guess the saying "keep it simple stupid!" is my wakeup call :)
Its of cause a very personal thing what works for ones creative processes. Personally I would be happy with just a few more smaller machines with a solid analog/hybrid sound and voice architectures of suitable expressiveness.
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I guess the saying "keep it simple stupid!" is my wakeup call :)
Its of cause a very personal thing what works for ones creative processes. Personally I would be happy with just a few more smaller machines with a solid analog/hybrid sound and voice architectures of suitable expressiveness.
That's more or less what I'm going at now... smaller machines... I intend on plugging in different desktop synths to my Mackie 1220 ONYX mixer, on a per project base... so I will not have a set number of synths in the future... that is why they need to be desktop synths, so that I can remove them quickly from the mixer, and have them in front of me when using them... the fact that they are not editor dependent on my DAW is also a plus... it will be a simple "plug in the power, audio and MIDI cable, and go" method.
Not having a "cut in stone" setup as I intended earlier makes it less hard to decide what synths to get... I'll just get what I feel GAS for, and use them when I want to, and store them away when I do not want to use them, but without the problem of having enough MIDI ports, enough Mixer channels for all, and editors... and presets... and... you get the point.
Thus rack mount synths will not be considered here... as they have to be mounted to be used well... so it's a bit of a turnaround for me, as I have always been arguing that synths should also come in rack mountable versions :D
There are plenty of small analog desktop synths out there, from the mundane to the obscure... all interesting... currently (in addition til all the Dreadbox synths) I have my eye on the Make Noise 0-Coast synth as well... and a few others I cannot remember...
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There are plenty of small analog desktop synths out there, from the mundane to the obscure... all interesting... currently (in addition til all the Dreadbox synths) I have my eye on the Make Noise 0-Coast synth as well... and a few others I cannot remember...
Well my current small desktop synth drool list contains machines such as MFB Dominion Club, MBrane11, MBase 11 and ex-MI Shruthi-1 4PM. I really like that DSI did the AS-1 but its just that I want more complex machines than that. The new SE-02 from Roland and Studio Electronics looks interesting if USB/MIDI is class compliant.
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There are plenty of small analog desktop synths out there, from the mundane to the obscure... all interesting... currently (in addition til all the Dreadbox synths) I have my eye on the Make Noise 0-Coast synth as well... and a few others I cannot remember...
Well my current small desktop synth drool list contains machines such as MFB Dominion Club, MBrane11, MBase 11 and ex-MI Shruthi-1 4PM. I really like that DSI did the AS-1 but its just that I want more complex machines than that. The new SE-02 from Roland and Studio Electronics looks interesting if USB/MIDI is class compliant.
I have my eyes on the MFB as well, plus some of their discontinued desktop synths and drummachines... the Jomox drummodules are not hands on... if they were, I'd get those again... but I want ALL parameters on the front... the SE-02 looks interresting, but has too many shift button features... it seems to me that every time a synth had digital control, the interface is reduced, and even worse is when knobs have more than one function... it makes it impossible to make gradual live adjustments to parameters, unless it's encoders, and I hate encoders to say the least...
Also analog polysynths are almost always digitally controlled... but that is actually logical because in an analog hardwired knob, it will be in one voices circuit, not multiple voices... the Vermona Perfourmer has knobs for each voice curcuit because of this... so I think it's harder to do analog polysynths without digitally controlling them... how the Dreadbox Abyss managed to be polyphonic and with analog hardwired knobs I do not know... I believe I read or heard them say that in fact a great deal of the Abyss is digitally controlled, so maybe it actually is... but still it has all controls on the surface...
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Next family member is on the way now... :)
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Nice one :)
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As I have no use for my SONY PCM-D100 anymore, because I will not be using samples, I just sold it... and will be getting this one instead... It has some analog features that the Dreadboxes does not, plus it has a small minikeyboard and pitch/mod wheels which will be nice to have on my main desktop for quick short experiments.
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Next family member is on the way now... :)
Good call on the Nyx - the repeating modulators (env <-> lfo, x3) are really pretty cool, and the reverb effects sound absolutely amazing. Planning on pairing this up with an 0-Coast myself.
EDITED - oooh, apparently you can poly-chain up to two Nyx units (or Nyx + Erebus). That could be interesting.
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Next family member is on the way now... :)
Good call on the Nyx - the repeating modulators (env <-> lfo, x3) are really pretty cool, and the reverb effects sound absolutely amazing. Planning on pairing this up with an 0-Coast myself.
0-Coast is also on my list... it is unique enough to warrant a channel in my mixer :)
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New USB3.0 MIDI interface on the way... Alysium U3-88c ... made by the people who created Vangelis' whole MIDI setup... should have the fastest thruput of MIDI, being so fast that latency and jitter should be a thing of the past... looking forward to testing this.
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As someone who has a MicroBrute and a Keith McMillan QuNexus, I'd advise you to try out the QuNexus if you're primarily looking for a small input device. Believe it or not, the QuNexus's keyboard is way more playable than the MicroBrute's. If you need another sound source (or another EG, or another LFO), that's a different story, of course. If I had to choose one, it would definitely be the QuNexus. The feel, the build quality, and the flexibility, are top-notch.
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As someone who has a MicroBrute and a Keith McMillan QuNexus, I'd advise you to try out the QuNexus if you're primarily looking for a small input device. Believe it or not, the QuNexus's keyboard is way more playable than the MicroBrute's. If you need another sound source (or another EG, or another LFO), that's a different story, of course. If I had to choose one, it would definitely be the QuNexus. The feel, the build quality, and the flexibility, are top-notch.
I actually decided to wait with the Microbrute a bit, since I fell over that MIDI interface instead and wanted to try that out first... so I have some time to think about it.
Honestly, I'd rather have the Microbrute without the keys, since it would take up less space, and there is only two octaves... I would not really be using it much to type in notes because I have my A-70 right in front of me, under the desktop on a shelf, and that one plays waaaaaay better than anything I've ever tried... so I do not NEED a short and small keyboard on my desktop... it was the synth I was interested in, in the first place... but with that said, the build in sequencer of the Microbrute would be handy, primarily because it will send this sequence out of it's CV/GATE outputs (I hope), and I'd like to use that on some of the dreadboxes once in a while to modulate their patchpoints...But I could also just get a few KORG SQ-1's for this... which I probably will... their size is just right.
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You can always chop it up: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=134893&highlight=
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You can always chop it up: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=134893&highlight=
Cool... but honestly, it's so small already that I would hate to chop the keys off, no matter how bad they are... they are only useful to me for simple step recording a small sequence, and I do not need a perfect keyboard for that, not even velocity as all of the Dreadbox machines do not support velocity at all (which actually is the worst thing about them I'd say, but you could allways get a velocity CV output from something else)... still it's cool in a way, that he chopped it off :D
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Huge patch libraries and complete MIDI control used to be priorities for you. Now that you're giving up patch storage and complete MIDI control, have you considered just getting a single modular system?
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Huge patch libraries and complete MIDI control used to be priorities for you. Now that you're giving up patch storage and complete MIDI control, have you considered just getting a single modular system?
I know it seems crazy... but I feel this is the right thing for me... I guess I just lived out my "MIDI/Preset Period".
No... actually I have not considered a modular system because what I need is limitations, since that is what I work best with, and if I start building a modular, I'll be constantly hoarding modules and not making any music... it's hard to describe this "attitude" to people who do not feel the way I do about this, so I won't try to :)
I have though, considered getting the tiny case from Doepfer a few times, but that would be only to make small selfcontained synths that I need (one I've had in mind is one with a simple sample playback oscillator like TIPTOP audio's "ONE" for this), but I'd prefer hardwired semi modular synths with few controls, and that is why the Dreadbox'es have my attention.
In fact, it's a relief for me, that I NEVER have to think about creating editors in SoundDiver, never have to hoarde presets and sort them, never have to use hours and hours creating presets with hundreds of parameters.
Basically what I'm doing is making the editing process a part of the composing now... earlier I created presets and sounds as one job, and composing as another... now every sound will be tailored from the ground up, to fit the piece I'm working on... but to do this intuitively, few controls are essential, especially when there is no memory.
I'm not sure it gives any meaning to you guys, and I do not expect you to... but it gives meaning to me, and I just feel this is what I should have been doing A LONG TIME AGO :)
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No... actually I have not considered a modular system because what I need is limitations, since that is what I work best with, and if I start building a modular, I'll be constantly hoarding modules and not making any music... it's hard to describe this "attitude" to people who do not feel the way I do about this, so I won't try to :)
I get that. It's absolutely a common trap for modular enthusiasts. I've been able to stick to a hard 144HP limit for over a year, and I feel like I'm making progress in learning things and making music, despite my modular being "limited." No, I don't need a new case, thank the MuffWiggler guys very much.
I have though, considered getting the tiny case from Doepfer a few times, but that would be only to make small selfcontained synths that I need (one I've had in mind is one with a simple sample playback oscillator like TIPTOP audio's "ONE" for this)
Don't even bother with that. The semi-modular route works for you, and you can get like two Erebuses for the price of filling out one of those ridiculous little things. There's a level at which functionality is too minimal to justify any financial outlay at all.
Basically what I'm doing is making the editing process a part of the composing now... earlier I created presets and sounds as one job, and composing as another... now every sound will be tailored from the ground up, to fit the piece I'm working on... but to do this intuitively, few controls are essential, especially when there is no memory.
It's interesting, because our paths sort of intersect at some point. Sound design as integrated with composition. "Patch storage" means a Longaberger basket full of cables. Except after sixteen months of doing nothing but west coast style modular synthesis, I'm starting to rethink sampling, and the possibilities offered by a modular/Ableton hybrid instrument, which involves some form of pre-composition sound design in the form of creating clips and applying effects.
Always a pendulum with us, right?
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I know it seems crazy... but I feel this is the right thing for me... I guess I just lived out my "MIDI/Preset Period".
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In fact, it's a relief for me, that I NEVER have to think about creating editors in SoundDiver, never have to hoarde presets and sort them, never have to use hours and hours creating presets with hundreds of parameters.
Basically what I'm doing is making the editing process a part of the composing now... earlier I created presets and sounds as one job, and composing as another... now every sound will be tailored from the ground up, to fit the piece I'm working on... but to do this intuitively, few controls are essential, especially when there is no memory.
I'm not sure it gives any meaning to you guys, and I do not expect you to... but it gives meaning to me, and I just feel this is what I should have been doing A LONG TIME AGO :)
You're a better man than I, though I do still keep a copy of SoundDiver around. Preset maintenance (on synths which might bear 1000 locations) should be an afterthought, but always easy and efficient.
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No... actually I have not considered a modular system because what I need is limitations, since that is what I work best with, and if I start building a modular, I'll be constantly hoarding modules and not making any music... it's hard to describe this "attitude" to people who do not feel the way I do about this, so I won't try to :)
I get that. It's absolutely a common trap for modular enthusiasts. I've been able to stick to a hard 144HP limit for over a year, and I feel like I'm making progress in learning things and making music, despite my modular being "limited." No, I don't need a new case, thank the MuffWiggler guys very much.
I have though, considered getting the tiny case from Doepfer a few times, but that would be only to make small selfcontained synths that I need (one I've had in mind is one with a simple sample playback oscillator like TIPTOP audio's "ONE" for this)
Don't even bother with that. The semi-modular route works for you, and you can get like two Erebuses for the price of filling out one of those ridiculous little things. There's a level at which functionality is too minimal to justify any financial outlay at all.
Basically what I'm doing is making the editing process a part of the composing now... earlier I created presets and sounds as one job, and composing as another... now every sound will be tailored from the ground up, to fit the piece I'm working on... but to do this intuitively, few controls are essential, especially when there is no memory.
It's interesting, because our paths sort of intersect at some point. Sound design as integrated with composition. "Patch storage" means a Longaberger basket full of cables. Except after sixteen months of doing nothing but west coast style modular synthesis, I'm starting to rethink sampling, and the possibilities offered by a modular/Ableton hybrid instrument, which involves some form of pre-composition sound design in the form of creating clips and applying effects.
Always a pendulum with us, right?
Actually I have a tiny hope that Dreadbox would make a synth with a digital sample oscillator, but I also know this is probably wishful thinking... It's just nice to have something to play weird looped acoustic snippets when doing Ambient music... like waves on a beach... howling winds... you get the point... an Erebus more would not allow this :D ... that is why I've been thinking of making such a small thing... I might also just get a KORG Volca Sample to fix this problem, and that is probably a lot more practical... and cheap.
And yes... that pendulum seems to have had an irritating resonance to it, in my case... on the brink of "selfoscillation" sometimes :D
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I know it seems crazy... but I feel this is the right thing for me... I guess I just lived out my "MIDI/Preset Period".
...
In fact, it's a relief for me, that I NEVER have to think about creating editors in SoundDiver, never have to hoarde presets and sort them, never have to use hours and hours creating presets with hundreds of parameters.
Basically what I'm doing is making the editing process a part of the composing now... earlier I created presets and sounds as one job, and composing as another... now every sound will be tailored from the ground up, to fit the piece I'm working on... but to do this intuitively, few controls are essential, especially when there is no memory.
I'm not sure it gives any meaning to you guys, and I do not expect you to... but it gives meaning to me, and I just feel this is what I should have been doing A LONG TIME AGO :)
You're a better man than I, though I do still keep a copy of SoundDiver around. Preset maintenance (on synths which might bear 1000 locations) should be an afterthought, but always easy and efficient.
Well... I'm making sure I do not have any synth that is digitally controllable, and has no MIDI output... then I will have absolutely no use for SoundDiver :) ... SoundDiver IS a marvelous program, but it's hopelessly outdated ... I've had so much focus on this program, it became part of my studios "heart", which only showed all the limitations all the time... I had to constantly research any synth I wanted for compatibility, and just a simple checksum could ruin any chance of creating an editor for it... memory locations that had different functionality depending on other memories contents was impossible (typical of effects parameters to do this... one memory dictated the FX type, and then a bunch of data memory locations defined the FX parameters, but with different meaning depending on which FX you choose).
And then the sorting... some synths have thousands of presets, and they had to be sorted in categories, and if you wanted to fill your synths internel user memories, you'd have to spend hours deciding which ones to keep, and which that had to go... I've been doing this for YEARS... actually tens of years, and I simply hate it now... been there, done that, NO MORE! :)
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Actually I have a tiny hope that Dreadbox would make a synth with a digital sample oscillator, but I also know this is probably wishful thinking... It's just nice to have something to play weird looped acoustic snippets when doing Ambient music... like waves on a beach... howling winds... you get the point... an Erebus more would not allow this :D ... that is why I've been thinking of making such a small thing... I might also just get a KORG Volca Sample to fix this problem, and that is probably a lot more practical... and cheap.
If you're talking about building a small eurorack system around TipTop One, then yes. I've considered One myself, and it's excellent if you want to add a sampler to a eurorack system. But I don't think it's worth building a system around, if that makes sense. After considering the case, power supply, support modules... a better option for a similar price would be a Toraiz SP-1. You get a gorgeous interface and a Prophet 6 filter, etc.
I skipped Volca Sample because it doesn't actually sample, and I know that I'd get annoyed using the app. For cheap sampling, I considered an Akai MPX16, but reviews consistently say it's slow to boot. The next step up is Boss SP-404, which I'd love to have. It's a bit out of my budget for now, but it might be my next instrument target. Meanwhile, I'm getting use out of a Roland MS-1. The reality is the Ableton is really all I need for sampling, but requires the computer to be set up.
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Actually I have a tiny hope that Dreadbox would make a synth with a digital sample oscillator, but I also know this is probably wishful thinking... It's just nice to have something to play weird looped acoustic snippets when doing Ambient music... like waves on a beach... howling winds... you get the point... an Erebus more would not allow this :D ... that is why I've been thinking of making such a small thing... I might also just get a KORG Volca Sample to fix this problem, and that is probably a lot more practical... and cheap.
If you're talking about building a small eurorack system around TipTop One, then yes. I've considered One myself, and it's excellent if you want to add a sampler to a eurorack system. But I don't think it's worth building a system around, if that makes sense. After considering the case, power supply, support modules... a better option for a similar price would be a Toraiz SP-1. You get a gorgeous interface and a Prophet 6 filter, etc.
I skipped Volca Sample because it doesn't actually sample, and I know that I'd get annoyed using the app. For cheap sampling, I considered an Akai MPX16, but reviews consistently say it's slow to boot. The next step up is Boss SP-404, which I'd love to have. It's a bit out of my budget for now, but it might be my next instrument target. Meanwhile, I'm getting use out of a Roland MS-1. The reality is the Ableton is really all I need for sampling, but requires the computer to be set up.
Toraiz defies my new workflow... menu diving, and way too many options/parameters so that is out of the question... also I find it way too expensive for what it does.
The Volca Sampler is probably the cheapest and best considering what I need... yes it does not sample, and getting the samples into it is a tedious process, and what keeps me from getting it... no... it MUST BE hands on... no menus! ... few controls, just the basics... all I need is just a simple mono sample playback device, with the ability to set pitch manually and control pitch via CV/GATE ... a few things to manipulate the sample would be nice, and that was where the small modular idear came from... maybe an analog filter, some waveshaping module or the like just to manipulate the sample somewhat and to make it sound more analog...
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all I need is just a simple mono sample playback device, with the ability to set pitch manually and control pitch via CV/GATE ... a few things to manipulate the sample would be nice, and that was where the small modular idear came from... maybe an analog filter, some waveshaping module or the like just to manipulate the sample somewhat and to make it sound more analog...
Those were pretty close to my desires, as well, so I'll watch with interest what you do.
My approach to CV/gate was to design and build this little box (picture attached). It has a CV in and a gate in, and it just sends a MIDI note (3-octave range) based on the CV value. I assigned consecutive MIDI note numbers to Roland MS-1 samples, and run the MS-1 into my eurorack audio path. Now I've got a eurorack-controllable sampler! Cost to build the box: $8, which includes one of those $4 CH340-based Arduino Unos.
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The family is now complete... at least until MEDUSA is available in december :)
I am finally polyphonic again...
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Finally, I've got the Dreadbox HADES home :)
This is some really characterful oldschool dirty analog synth, and I'd like to see a softsynth try at emulating this... I don't think they will succeed :D
I created a stringer like preset on it, and it started having some Jarre qualities, and thus I threw HADES and EREBUS in as well to spice it up a bit for testing purposes.
A really REALLY nice synth if you like oldschool analog sound I'd say... but it has balls... it will not give you exactly what you want, but it'll give you something good you did not expect either I'd say :D
Here is the short demo:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/ABYSS-EREBUS-HADES.mp3
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Well... now I'll find out, if sequencing is something for me... if it is, the computer will be completely eliminated in my studio forever... somehow I like the thought of it, and hope it will be the case... and if, then I'll need three more of these and then build them together as one unit... then I'll use this "quad sequencer" for sequencing four synths, and my Roland A-70 which has 4 MIDI outputs will be connected to 4 synths that I'll play live on top of the four sequenced ones... then a simple drummachine, and a sample playback device will be the last stuff to get... except the system is open... I can buy new small desktop synths when something pops up that catch my attention, and just store away what I do not use in a given project... also had to up my mixer a tad, to get a few channels for individual drumsounds, so I bought a used Mackie ONYX 1620i for this purpose.
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What would you use to record?
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What would you use to record?
My computer as always... I have an RME ADI-2 for that and a RME AIO in the computer... these will still be here for just that simple purpose of 2-track recording and playback... but it will be moved to another table, so that it is not part of my studio setup anymore :)
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New small riff with the four Dreadbox machines... nothing special, but I'm testing some things... the studio is in extreme makeover at this point :)
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/TESTDB.mp3
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if it is, the computer will be completely eliminated in my studio forever...
I guess I took that a little too literally.... ;D
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I've made a little test of my new Abyss synth using Moroder's "I Feel Love" bassriff... check it out... I really dig this synth :)
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/MORODER_TEST.mp3
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Next family member is on it's way. A Doepfer Dark Energy mk1.
I really wanted particularly this version because it has linear FM of the filter, allowing for some unique playable timbres. The mk2 of Dark Energy does not have this feature, it has a state variable filter instead with morphable sweeping between the filter types. I actually plan on getting the mk2 as well, since they are very different, but an offer on the now rarer mk1 came my way, so I took the plunge when the chance came.
As should be clear by now, I've gone hands-on + small desktop ... easy to tweak... so I'm looking for these types of synths, especially those that does something unique... but it's hard to find any digital ones that are hands on... I'm probably getting a Waldorf Streichfett at some point as this fits the bill, and I'll try to find a few synths that have stereo output too, as this is not common on the analog ones...
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I have one of the mk1s, I think it is a neat little synth especially useful when connected up to a modular.
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The Dark Energy mk1 is home, and I've attached a pair of mahogany end panels to it to have the surface angled... works really nice.
In about a week I will be purchasing yet another analog desktop or rack synth with hands on interface (one knob per function)... I have several on the list, so I'll see what it will be :) ... I need to get accumulated a few more so I have enough to begin a small project.
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I can't remember if you have or have had a Minitaur?
If you haven't might be worth a look...
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I can't remember if you have or have had a Minitaur?
If you haven't might be worth a look...
I have :) ... but I will not be getting one again, even though it sounds fantastic... reason: not one function per knob as they strangely enough is advertising it to be... it has way too many features under the hood... I'll be getting a Mother-32 one day though... already planned :)
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If you ignore all the hidden extras then it is, although I get your point. I have been holding off installing the latest firmware even though it makes it much more powerful for exactly that reason!
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If you ignore all the hidden extras then it is, although I get your point. I have been holding off installing the latest firmware even though it makes it much more powerful for exactly that reason!
Your're right about that... still I would feel compelled to dive under the hood, and that result in exactly what I do not want: Knobs no longer represent just ONE parameter... that is a no-go for me these days unfortunately.
Anyway... as I wrote, I'm in for at Mother-32, and that should give me the MOOG sound I need... I know it does not have two oscillators, but I really do not need this for the kind of basstones I'm after with a MOOG... all I need is a single oscillator with a sub, and the M32 does give me that... on top, it has a hell of a lot of patchpoints greatly expanding it's sonic possibilities beyond what a Minitaur will ever be capable of... also, the pitch range is way too small for me... I want to be able to do both basses, leads and sound FX/percussion with it if needed... and the M32 has a 10 octave range on the oscillator I've read, so that's perfect.
but still... Minitaur is a cool little basssynth, with lots of cool features... it just will not fit my current workflow :)
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I've had both a Minitaur and a Mother-32. My view is that the Minitaur is the better synth, but the Mother-32 is more flexible for most purposes. I think I could have been perfectly happy for a while with a rack of three Mothers-32.
I wasn't impressed with the Mother's volt-per-octave tracking with CV, but it can be calibrated. With all the other stuff you're getting, this might be relevant. The Minitaur's volt-per-octave tracking is absolutely hopeless.
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I've had both a Minitaur and a Mother-32. My view is that the Minitaur is the better synth, but the Mother-32 is more flexible for most purposes. I think I could have been perfectly happy for a while with a rack of three Mothers-32.
I wasn't impressed with the Mother's volt-per-octave tracking with CV, but it can be calibrated. With all the other stuff you're getting, this might be relevant. The Minitaur's volt-per-octave tracking is absolutely hopeless.
I'll be using the Mother-32 with MIDI... I'm not sure if the tracking problem is only via the gate/cv inputs? ... anyway, if it can be calibrated it should not be a problem... this must be typical MOOG... the Minimoog had tuning instabilities too :D
I just happen to like the sound when I listen to Youtube videos of the thing... so eventually I'll try one out... I can always send it back if I do not like it :)
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I'm not sure if the tracking problem is only via the gate/cv inputs? ... anyway, if it can be calibrated it should not be a problem...
Yeah, it was only via the CV input. With MIDI it'll be fine.
this must be typical MOOG... the Minimoog had tuning instabilities too
Think so. My Little Phatty also suffers from that. It's absolutely perfect on CV out, but it won't track with CV in. People have sent them to Asheville have a calibration trimpot added. I've read that Voyagers were the same. It's just not a priority for them.
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I'm not sure if the tracking problem is only via the gate/cv inputs? ... anyway, if it can be calibrated it should not be a problem...
Yeah, it was only via the CV input. With MIDI it'll be fine.
this must be typical MOOG... the Minimoog had tuning instabilities too
Think so. My Little Phatty also suffers from that. It's absolutely perfect on CV out, but it won't track with CV in. People have sent them to Asheville have a calibration trimpot added. I've read that Voyagers were the same. It's just not a priority for them.
Maybe it's a trademark :D ... but if MIDI does fine, I'm fine... I'll be using all my synths via MIDI since it's the only way when using a DAW sequencer really... besides, could it be, that it is the device SENDING the CV/GATE signals that is off? ...
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Your're right about that... still I would feel compelled to dive under the hood, and that result in exactly what I do not want: Knobs no longer represent just ONE parameter... that is a no-go for me these days unfortunately.
Anyway... as I wrote, I'm in for at Mother-32, and that should give me the MOOG sound I need...
If I remember correctly, the Mother-32 has hidden features too, does it not?
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Your're right about that... still I would feel compelled to dive under the hood, and that result in exactly what I do not want: Knobs no longer represent just ONE parameter... that is a no-go for me these days unfortunately.
Anyway... as I wrote, I'm in for at Mother-32, and that should give me the MOOG sound I need...
If I remember correctly, the Mother-32 has hidden features too, does it not?
Hidden features are not a total no-go... as long as it does not interfere with the controls... my criteria is that a knob, if used for more than ONE function, can not (logically) show two different values... this is confusing to me because my new way of working is different... I want to edit EVERY sound I use from scratch, while I'm composing, and that requires two things: 1. That the synth is not too complicated, as I do not want to spend hours designing a sound... and 2. knobs/sliders must have ONLY one function, so I can easily see what a certain parameter is set to... buttons is not as crucial, as they usually is not "set" to something... usually button parameters are accompanied by LEDs showing the status... so they can have more than one function.... actually even a display with "under the hood" parameters is ok, as long as they are edited with an encoder and cursor buttons and you can clearly see the values in the display.
Even presets can prove to be a problem, if the synth cannot take on the current values of the surface controls... because if you recall a preset, then all knobs and sliders suddenly do not reflect the current values anymore... there need to be a "manual" mode as on the Prophet 6... otherwise it gets confusing.
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besides, could it be, that it is the device SENDING the CV/GATE signals that is off? ...
No. It was definitely the Mother-32.
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If I remember correctly, the Mother-32 has hidden features too, does it not?
The entire sequencer is a labyrinth of hidden features. I couldn't use that damn thing without the manual open. There are folks way smarter than I am who love it, but for me it was a hatred that burned with the heat of a thousand suns.
It doesn't take much away from the overall quality of the instrument, though. I still put Mother-32 in my "recommend" column.
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I will sequence it from the computer anyway, so even if I cannot get to grips with the built in sequencer, I'll live... would be cool to use it for modulation purposes though... in FX and the like (at high speeds etc.)... anyway, if I do not like it, I can always send it back. :)
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One of the few fully digital synths out there, with a one knob per function approach... on it's way.
Well... almost One Knob per Function... the FX knob doubles for all three FX, but I'll survive that I believe :)
All those analog monosynths are cool, but I do need a few polyphonic ones in stereo, so this is one of them... at least untill I maybe stumble upon a Nord A1 rack...
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Well... almost One Knob per Function... the FX knob doubles for all three FX, but I'll survive that I believe :)
I don't know about that... I mean, once you start making compromises... :)
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Well... almost One Knob per Function... the FX knob doubles for all three FX, but I'll survive that I believe :)
I don't know about that... I mean, once you start making compromises... :)
I know... but I am pretty stern about the one knob per function thing... unfortunately, I have no choice if I want a few digital synths in the setup, and I need something for pads that are also stereo capable... very few analog desktop synths have stereo outs... even just for modulating pan position... the Streichfett is just that... but the FX knob is only a simple three position switch, and a knob for intensity... it's pretty quick to set, even if the knob cannot show all thre intensities at the same time.... besides, I'm probably not even going to use the FX in the Streichfett... I will use two EH Smallstone phasers on the outs, and the reverb will be done by my Lexicon PCM92... that leaves only the Animation FX to be used, and then ... in essence, ... it will be a one knob per function device, as I do not need to set the other two FX at all ;)
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One of the few fully digital synths out there, with a one knob per function approach... on it's way.
Well... almost One Knob per Function... the FX knob doubles for all three FX, but I'll survive that I believe :)
All those analog monosynths are cool, but I do need a few polyphonic ones in stereo, so this is one of them... at least untill I maybe stumble upon a Nord A1 rack...
That module (Streichfett) is crack–and you get bi-timbrality (128-voice strings, 8-voice solo/lead) out of the deal.
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I'm just going to say this once. Raz, you won't be truly happy until you go modular.
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I'm just going to say this once. Raz, you won't be truly happy until you go modular.
I've been close, and still am... but not in the "normal" sense... There are some modules that I'd like to create small self contained synths out of, but that is as far as I will go... worst case scenario is a three-story Doepfer case filled... I simply do not have space for more than that.
Modules I've been interested in are usually modules that are a whole synth in itself... especially the Dreadbox Drips module has been on my list... but I also have one of their yet to be released DIY Hades v2 synths lying here, just waiting to be built... that is also in EURORACK format.
I may do the above mentioned 3-story case at some point with other modules, but I'd still see the whole box as "one synth"... using it with MIDI control.
Only the future will tell :)
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One of the few fully digital synths out there, with a one knob per function approach... on it's way.
Well... almost One Knob per Function... the FX knob doubles for all three FX, but I'll survive that I believe :)
All those analog monosynths are cool, but I do need a few polyphonic ones in stereo, so this is one of them... at least untill I maybe stumble upon a Nord A1 rack...
That module (Streichfett) is crack–and you get bi-timbrality (128-voice strings, 8-voice solo/lead) out of the deal.
Yep... I'l be getting some Smallstones to go with it... I simply do not like the built in phaser ... I owned an Eminent 310 Unique with a 70's phaser previously, so I know how a proper stringer should sound, and am a great Jarre fan, sĺ I simply got to have two Smallstones on the Streichfetts outputs.
Other than that, I'm looking forward to use especially the choral settings of the Streichfett... I need something to do pad sounds... I do have the Dreadbox Abyss, but it's still mono out, and it cannot do that ensemble effect...
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Only the future will tell :)
Sure. You seem like a good candidate for it, because
(1) You're buying a bunch of little synths
(2) You want strict knob-per-function control
(3) You want sound design to be integrated with composition
The philosophical deal you make with modular is that you gain absolute control over your components while giving up the prospect of replicating any particular sound. Whether this deal is worth it depends on the composer. With semi-modular, you give up the control and the replicability.
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Only the future will tell :)
Sure. You seem like a good candidate for it, because
(1) You're buying a bunch of little synths
(2) You want strict knob-per-function control
(3) You want sound design to be integrated with composition
The philosophical deal you make with modular is that you gain absolute control over your components while giving up the prospect of replicating any particular sound. Whether this deal is worth it depends on the composer. With semi-modular, you give up the control and the replicability.
Yes... but the problem with modular is, that you need a lot of MIDI to CV/GATE modules if I was only to use modular gear... I plan on 16 MIDI controlled small synths, so that would make 16 of these modules alone, unless there is a modules that will allow for more MIDI channels, and have multiple CV/GATE outs... I need to control everything from my computer DAW. Otherwise, you're right... and I would probaly be able to have more power in a huge modular rack system, than by small desktop synths...
I still play with the idear actually... the biggest hindrance is that I'd need to buy the modular case first, and the MIDI to CV/GATE modules, before being able to add anything useful to the modular... it feels like using a lot of money without getting anything audible from it... but who know... some day I might get one :)
Another thing is that many of the small desktop synths do not come in modular format, so I'd still need to combine the two things...
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Well... I cancelled the Streichfett in the last minute... I don't know what it is, but something makes me doubt about it... I don't know what it is, but maybe I'll re decide later on...
Instead I've ordered this analog rack-synth from Spain, which I've had my eyes on for some time... the reason is that it sounds pretty good, it's hands-on, but most importantly, it is one of the few analog hands-on synths out there, with a stereo output that can also be modulated.
I need this panning modulation for creating FX sounds and movement i the stereo field, because none of the mono synths give that option... and external FX that do this is scarce, and usually guitar pedals which I want to avoid using. I want this feature to be an inherent part of the synth itself.
Another welcome feature is the analog ring modulator... none of my current synths have this.
I could do this with a modular of course, but I'm not sure I will delve into the modular world right now... maybe later.
So I'm eagerly waiting for this thing to arrive :)
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Yes... but the problem with modular is, that you need a lot of MIDI to CV/GATE modules if I was only to use modular gear... I plan on 16 MIDI controlled small synths, so that would make 16 of these modules alone, unless there is a modules that will allow for more MIDI channels, and have multiple CV/GATE outs...
16 MIDI-controllable eurorack voices would be the wrong approach for most studios. First of all, it would be a tremendous expense. You should plan on about €2000-€3000 per eurorack voice*. Also, the space required would be huge. I don't know if you've got infinite money, but you've made it clear that you don't have infinite space.
Note that Mutable Instruments Yarns has four independent CV/gate channels. That's the biggest eurorack/MIDI interface that I know of. You can also use DC-coupled audio interfaces with Silent Way software, which might be more economical and flexible with a DAW.
However, it might be best to fill most of your studio with synths to get you to 16 voices, but with a single modular voice. For recording, a single modular voice will take enough of your attention, and will make a big enough sound.
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* Economies of scale sort of apply with respect to the case, power supply, and fun toys, and it's possible to cut costs in various areas, so this is simply my best estimate based on experience.
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Yes... but the problem with modular is, that you need a lot of MIDI to CV/GATE modules if I was only to use modular gear... I plan on 16 MIDI controlled small synths, so that would make 16 of these modules alone, unless there is a modules that will allow for more MIDI channels, and have multiple CV/GATE outs...
16 MIDI-controllable eurorack voices would be the wrong approach for most studios. First of all, it would be a tremendous expense. You should plan on about €2000-€3000 per eurorack voice*. Also, the space required would be huge. I don't know if you've got infinite money, but you've made it clear that you don't have infinite space.
Note that Mutable Instruments Yarns has four independent CV/gate channels. That's the biggest eurorack/MIDI interface that I know of. You can also use DC-coupled audio interfaces with Silent Way software, which might be more economical and flexible with a DAW.
However, it might be best to fill most of your studio with synths to get you to 16 voices, but with a single modular voice. For recording, a single modular voice will take enough of your attention, and will make a big enough sound.
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* Economies of scale sort of apply with respect to the case, power supply, and fun toys, and it's possible to cut costs in various areas, so this is simply my best estimate based on experience.
That is basically what I already had in mind... a single "3-story" Doepfer case, that is to work as a single modular voice... I'm almost certain this will happen, and most likely this voice will be created with a stereo connection to my mixer in mind, as stereo analog synths are not that many... only one I know of, that is on my list right now is the Vermona Perfourmer mkII
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Razmo, There's many things I like about the Vermona MKII and I don't think you'll be disappointed if you go that route. Just messing with mine yesterday after ignoring it for a few months. It really is a joy to play with as it can it take you to creating new and impressive sounds so easily. I'll often run the Doepfer Dark Time to it and just twiddle around to see what arises. I'd say that's it's strength is having capability to make sounds that don't seem to arise when I'm sitting behind a traditional keyboard synth. What kind of vehicle you drive sort of directs where you take it I guess.
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Razmo, There's many things I like about the Vermona MKII and I don't think you'll be disappointed if you go that route. Just messing with mine yesterday after ignoring it for a few months. It really is a joy to play with as it can it take you to creating new and impressive sounds so easily. I'll often run the Doepfer Dark Time to it and just twiddle around to see what arises. I'd say that's it's strength is having capability to make sounds that don't seem to arise when I'm sitting behind a traditional keyboard synth. What kind of vehicle you drive sort of directs where you take it I guess.
The reason for wanting the Perfourmer mkII are many actually...
1. The thing is stereo... not many hands on analog synths have stereo out.
2. The rather unique feature allowing to send/return after the oscillators but before the filter is kind of cool
3. The ability to pan voices to different positions, and slightly vary the voices give some unique stereo capabilities
4. It sounds quite good and strong analog.
And I agree... sitting in front af a synth, using it's interface, and especially NOT using preset sounds makes you work quite differently... I realize this now after composing this way for a while... tweaking each synth specifically for each project makes it much easier to find the sweetspots of each synth to make them blend together... a lot more intuitive than browsing thru hundreds of presets to find something that "nearly" fits...
Another nice thing is that this way of working lets me create sounds in a bit different way than I used to... earlier I split presets programing and composing into two separate processes... now the sound editing is part of the composing, and I often let the sequencer play a short sequence while I edit the sound... this not only gives me sounds that fit the other synths, it also let me tailor the sound specifically to the sequence they are to play... attacks, decay, release times, filter brightness etc... everything sort of get entangled in each-other...
And then I also completely remove the need to create presets in advance, hoarding them from the net, I get my own sound completely... so yes... you're right... sitting with the synths is quite different, especially when everything is done while composing.
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Allright... I'm back in DSI business again, as I just bought a used Evolver Desktop... I miss some digital elements in all this analog craze I'm having at the moment... I've decided to get on terms with the interface for programming it, but I'll probably mostly use the presets I put in it, and then modify those as I will be composing with it... it is not exactly a one-knob-per-function synth :)
..and yes... I remember it's quirks... and no, I'm not going to start complaining about them again, I know that what I get is what I see/hear ;)
I guess, that at some point I'll end up with a Mopho/Tetra as well, and most likely a Toraiz AS-1 ... just the small desktop machines, don't want no rack-synth or keys anymore... the desktops are easier to move about, and connect/disconnect from the mixer for a given project.
The reason for accepting some not so hands on synths again is, that the sound sources is limited in most analog hands-on desktop units... the filters are cool, but the oscillators don't allow many options... in particular I miss bell like timbres, and the possibility to create evolving textures for my Ambient projects... you can do some things with analog oscillators like ringmod and FM, but it is just still a bit limited...
So yes... I'm a DSI guy once again :)
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Allright... I'm back in DSI business again, as I just bought a used Evolver Desktop...
Hehe! Welcome back into the DSI crowd! ;)
Assuming you still got your Dreadbox machines: think you picked the perfect combo of solid sounding analog machines and more spiced wider sonic span machines such as Evolver.
What is your current synth collection? Any plans to get the Jomox MBase/MBrane boxes again?
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Allright... I'm back in DSI business again, as I just bought a used Evolver Desktop...
Hehe! Welcome back into the DSI crowd! ;)
Assuming you still got your Dreadbox machines: think you picked the perfect combo of solid sounding analog machines and more spiced wider sonic span machines such as Evolver.
What is your current synth collection? Any plans to get the Jomox MBase/MBrane boxes again?
Funny you should mention it... yes... it was actually a choice about either the Evolver or the two JoMoX modules... they are definitely on the list, as they fit the bill perfectly now that I go for only analog/hybrid desktop synths... might be the next purchse in January (Christmas is expensive, but you know that :D ) ...
I still have all my Dreadboxes, they are not going anywhere... only the DIY Hades kit that I got as a gift two months ago from Dreadbox (because my Erebus and Nyx both had faults and needed to be exchanged) has been sold because I do not want to build it myself, and mess around with housing or eurorack... I'll do ANYTHING to stay away from Eurorack if possible.
Initially I thought about getting some digital sound source oscillators in Eurorack, and just plug them into the Audio In of my analog synths, to get other characters, but I really would like my synths to be stand alone devices not in need of anything external... so I decided to take the bull by the horns, and accept that some devices will have menus and not one knob per function... I simply have to get to know the interfaces... that simple... I do NOT want to start using SoundDiver again.. .NEVER EVER! ... I want to build my sounds from scratch using the device... simple as that... I might throw a bunch of the coolest presets into the Evolver, as starting points from time to time, and just editing them to fit... but that's it... thus I also need to use Chysn's Wav to Evolver convertion tool for 32 waveshapes that I need to figure out... they will not be changed again when first in there...
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I still have all my Dreadboxes, they are not going anywhere... only the DIY Hades kit that I got as a gift two months ago from Dreadbox (because my Erebus and Nyx both had faults and needed to be exchanged) has been sold because I do not want to build it myself, and mess around with housing or eurorack... I'll do ANYTHING to stay away from Eurorack if possible.
Sounds great with the Dreadbox machines. Lucky you to get that Hades DIY kit. And yes, those MBase/MBrane machines are very tasty. I do get you want to stay away from eurorack and I would recommend doing so until someone makes a great preset/modulation manager enabling a single module to perform the same function a lot of utility modules.
I do NOT want to start using SoundDiver again.. .NEVER EVER! ... I want to build my sounds from scratch using the device... simple as that... I might throw a bunch of the coolest presets into the Evolver, as starting points from time to time, and just editing them to fit... but that's it... thus I also need to use Chysn's Wav to Evolver convertion tool for 32 waveshapes that I need to figure out... they will not be changed again when first in there...
No more SoundDiver? Surprise! Are you are just tired of interacting with keyboard and mouse? Would a touch interface work better for you?
May I suggest not going for perfection when it comes waveshapes and presets? Its far better to add sounds and waveshapes as they are designed. Keep your setup evolving instead of static and enjoy creating.
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I still have all my Dreadboxes, they are not going anywhere... only the DIY Hades kit that I got as a gift two months ago from Dreadbox (because my Erebus and Nyx both had faults and needed to be exchanged) has been sold because I do not want to build it myself, and mess around with housing or eurorack... I'll do ANYTHING to stay away from Eurorack if possible.
Sounds great with the Dreadbox machines. Lucky you to get that Hades DIY kit. And yes, those MBase/MBrane machines are very tasty. I do get you want to stay away from eurorack and I would recommend doing so until someone makes a great preset/modulation manager enabling a single module to perform the same function a lot of utility modules.
I do NOT want to start using SoundDiver again.. .NEVER EVER! ... I want to build my sounds from scratch using the device... simple as that... I might throw a bunch of the coolest presets into the Evolver, as starting points from time to time, and just editing them to fit... but that's it... thus I also need to use Chysn's Wav to Evolver convertion tool for 32 waveshapes that I need to figure out... they will not be changed again when first in there...
No more SoundDiver? Surprise! Are you are just tired of interacting with keyboard and mouse? Would a touch interface work better for you?
May I suggest not going for perfection when it comes waveshapes and presets? Its far better to add sounds and waveshapes as they are designed. Keep your setup evolving instead of static and enjoy creating.
Yes... I'm tired of SoundDiver... not because of the mouse editing, but because SoundDiver is old, and quirky, and I miss a lot of functionality in it... a simple unsuported checksum value is enough to wreck any attempt at creating editors... I've lived with those irritating things long enough, and I thought, that if I just get used to the user interfaces of the synths, that problem will be forever solved, and I will have that less connections to the DAW... I'm free from having anything else on my DAW but the sequencer... and that is how I want it to be.
But this also demands that the desktop synths are not mega synth monsters like P12, REV2 etc... because it will take too long to come up with something from scratch, and I do not want this to destroy the creative process... thus I want the smaller versions with fewer parameters, but a bit more complex than 100% analog synths... Evolver Desktop, Mopho, AS-1 is good examples of what I'm after in the long run... the Jomox units as well.
I may even get a few 100% digital ones because of polyphony, but they have to be small desktop units, and not too complex... one I have on the list is the Micromonsta and most likely it's new companion, the DoubleDrummer. At some point I'll have to find a sample player as well, and right now only one fits the bill... Elektron DigiTakt.
Initially I hoped for only hands-on analog synths... I just have to accept, that I loose some crittical sound possibilities if I drop digital completely... especially when I want to make Ambient music.
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But this also demands that the desktop synths are not mega synth monsters like P12, REV2 etc... because it will take too long to come up with something from scratch, and I do not want this to destroy the creative process... thus I want the smaller versions with fewer parameters, but a bit more complex than 100% analog synths... Evolver Desktop, Mopho, AS-1 is good examples of what I'm after in the long run... the Jomox units as well.
Interesting! Especially because the P12 voice is not that much larger than Evolver after all. So do you mean that it takes longer time to dial in a usable sound on the P12 compared to the Evolver because extra tweaks are needed to make the sound work for the project?
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But this also demands that the desktop synths are not mega synth monsters like P12, REV2 etc... because it will take too long to come up with something from scratch, and I do not want this to destroy the creative process... thus I want the smaller versions with fewer parameters, but a bit more complex than 100% analog synths... Evolver Desktop, Mopho, AS-1 is good examples of what I'm after in the long run... the Jomox units as well.
Interesting! Especially because the P12 voice is not that much larger than Evolver after all. So do you mean that it takes longer time to dial in a usable sound on the P12 compared to the Evolver because extra tweaks are needed to make the sound work for the project?
No... the P12 is just a lot more parameters then the Evolver, especially because it also has two layers... in fact the P12 interface is easier than the Evolver Desktop, mainly because the display allow for better names (Evolver Desktop has three letter names for everything making it REALLY hard to edit it from the interface because you have to keep on looking the abbreviations up... hope this will be easier with time). Also the Desktop has all of the matrix written on very little space, making it cramped, and hard to spot the paramters quickly... at least for me... and then this irritating shift button that only complicates it even further.... but still... without a screen, and the size, I do not believe the Desktop could have been made much better.
I've decided, that for editing, this will drive me crazy... simply put.... for editing an adjustment to a preset it's ok, but to design a sound from scratch when I've been used to a full screen editor, this is a nightmare to be honest, so I've decided to keep SoundDiver at hand anyway... only to create presets "offline".... I'll stick to the presets inside the Evolver Desktop, and just do small edits here and there to those presets.... in fact that is what I have decided to do, for any non-hand-on synth I get in the future... I'll just have to get only those that will allow for SoundDiver editors... so I'm just partly stuck with SoundDiver anyway... I'll survive.
Still, my main synths will be small analog hands on ones... I just need a few hybrids/digital to give me two crucial things: 1. Polyphony and 2. More digital oscillator options.
I'm actually considering getting a REV2 8voice module at some point... not sure yet though since I'm afraid it'll take too much time to do something from scratch... but then again... you're not forced to use all the features, if you want to keep it simple... the main reason for a REV2 is the polyphony, but I may find another solution for that.
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No... the P12 is just a lot more parameters then the Evolver, especially because it also has two layers...
Interesting as I see P12 and Evolver as not all that different. But you are right with the layers as that obviously doubles the number of parameters. P12 have more modslots, more delay/LFO parameters. But the overall concept is very similar.
Of cause you have had P12 and I haven't. But this is how I look at it after having studied the voice architecture. The question is if its more complex to program not only based on the number of parameters to be configured but also if more tweaks/workarounds are needed to obtain the desired sound.
I've decided, that for editing, this will drive me crazy... simply put.... for editing an adjustment to a preset it's ok, but to design a sound from scratch when I've been used to a full screen editor, this is a nightmare to be honest, so I've decided to keep SoundDiver at hand anyway... only to create presets "offline"...
Sounds like a plan. Being flexible in tool use is a very good idea. Even better to try out techniques and adapt as insight in gained.
I'm actually considering getting a REV2 8voice module at some point... not sure yet though since I'm afraid it'll take too much time to do something from scratch... but then again... you're not forced to use all the features, if you want to keep it simple... the main reason for a REV2 is the polyphony, but I may find another solution for that.
I would suggest my standard advice at this time of year: Gearmas happens in late January so I would wait and see if anything more interesting shows up. Also, maybe give some thought to what kind of voice you really need. Take your time!
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No... the P12 is just a lot more parameters then the Evolver, especially because it also has two layers...
Interesting as I see P12 and Evolver as not all that different. But you are right with the layers as that obviously doubles the number of parameters. P12 have more modslots, more delay/LFO parameters. But the overall concept is very similar.
Of cause you have had P12 and I haven't. But this is how I look at it after having studied the voice architecture. The question is if its more complex to program not only based on the number of parameters to be configured but also if more tweaks/workarounds are needed to obtain the desired sound.
I've decided, that for editing, this will drive me crazy... simply put.... for editing an adjustment to a preset it's ok, but to design a sound from scratch when I've been used to a full screen editor, this is a nightmare to be honest, so I've decided to keep SoundDiver at hand anyway... only to create presets "offline"...
Sounds like a plan. Being flexible in tool use is a very good idea. Even better to try out techniques and adapt as insight in gained.
I'm actually considering getting a REV2 8voice module at some point... not sure yet though since I'm afraid it'll take too much time to do something from scratch... but then again... you're not forced to use all the features, if you want to keep it simple... the main reason for a REV2 is the polyphony, but I may find another solution for that.
I would suggest my standard advice at this time of year: Gearmas happens in late January so I would wait and see if anything more interesting shows up. Also, maybe give some thought to what kind of voice you really need. Take your time!
Actually I've been giving my setup a lot of thought lately... I've been taking quite a few "jumps" (rather extreme ones) to try out what works best for me, and I think I'm about to be at an actual conclusion. All this hands-on stuff really is beginning to piss me off, mainly because the sound pallette is so limited with analog synthesis alone... also I feel like I lack polyphony.
In fact, the way I work now (HD recording) is the best for the type of music I want to be doing (Ambient), so I really do not need a lot of synths... too many cause me to loose concentration and focus, and it also take up a hell of a lot of space.
The more I think of it, what I really need is a very small setup, with a few really powerful synthesizers that can do a little of each and complement each other.... as I will do HD recording in a layer fashion, I can reuse the synths more than once.
The criteria I have boiled down to these:
1. A few synths (I decided on four because of practical reasons)
2. Must be very flexible, and complement each other well
3. Must have lots of polyphony for pad sounds when needed
4. Build in modulation FX, since the only external FX I'll be using are Reverb and Delay.
5. Must be stereo capable.
6. Must be desktop modules (not rack!), one may be a keyboard (working as my master controller)
7. Analog must be part of the synthesis, so no 100% digital ones (digital bores me, for some reason unknown)
8. Must be possible to make an editor for SoundDiver for them, without a shadow of a doubt!
I've actually located most of the synths already, and the mixer too... the Mixer is on it's way, and it's a Mackie ONYX 820i ... a small mixer, but will do exactly what I want it to.
The Synths are:
1. DSI - Prophet REV2 (most likely the keyboard version)
2. DSI - P12 module (yes... I want that again for this)
3. DSI - Evolver Desktop (the only monophonic, but it will be plugged into the inserts of the mixers two mono channels, so that any microphones connected to the XLR inputs can be routed thru the Evolver for some analog/digital FX processing)
4. Not known yet... but it will have to meet all of the above criteria, and REALLY bring me something special... a DSI sampler might be a good candidate here ;)
On FX I already have the Lexicon PCM92, which will serve as my main Reverb/Multi FX processor... I have space for one more, and it will probably be an Eventide Eclipse at some point later (it's insanely expensive).
That's it... no more... no less... it will allow me to do any kind of Ambient music, and also allow for some organic manipulated microphone recorded tracks using different acoustic stuff for live recording.
So yes... all the newly aquired monosynths will have to go... that was yet another big mistake... but now it has been tried... yes, I know I'm crazy.... I even have papers on it ;)
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Ah, more GAO? Neat! Hope that you find a good solution. I am very happy you are working towards a setup that works for your musical goals. Just wish you would do it in a way that isn't so expensive because of the new vs used price difference being paid during studio reconfigurations.
It seems like you want to change your studio setup quite often. So may I suggest that you change one thing at a time and see it as a continued process rather than striving for a perfect setup? I am sure it would work better for you. Also, please consider waiting until NAMM before deciding on Rev2 as a more interesting machine may show up by then.
I have decided to keep a constant setup partly because of obvious financial limitations and partly because I can do a lot with my current setup. A few things are on the wish list though such as a certain digital mixer. But that will have to wait!
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Yes... and exactly the cost is why I want this to end... I'm sick and tired of always waiting for stuff, and hoarding new gear, ending in selling it again, and then rebuy it again... I'd like to start buying other things in life but gear (and start making music, because without making music, hoarding seems pointless)... it's become an obsession (OCD like), so it has to end now...
I can relatively quickly get the two synths (REV2 and P12) when I have sold the analog gear. The solution to my problem is to get at a finished setup, so I do not feel I miss anything in the "equation" anymore... I know the Prophet 8 and I know the P12... I can easily make editors for them, and I have the editor for the Evolver. All that will have to wait a bit are two microphones, an external FX processor more and then that final synth that I do not know what will end up being...
I'm pretty certain of this setup, because it satisfied all of my criteria to perfection... Studio will fill minimal in size, minimal cable clutter... I'll be able to reach and touch all synths from the same place AND have both monitor, keyboard and mouse there as well...
It's hard to explain, but the thought of this setup just makes me calm on the inside... feeding my urge to actually make some music (at last).
Erebus and Hades is on their way to a better home on Tuesday... all I need is to sell my Abyss, and I'll be close to getting a REV2... and I'll go for the keys version since that will save the space for the other synths on the shelf above my table where the REV2 will be standing.
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Oh wow that is quite a change and its happening fast. Going for calmness is a very good goal. Good you are focused on the cost challenge.
As said previously: I really think you should wait with Rev2 until after NAMM as who knows what DSI will offer this time around? What if it was a VS or a sampler based keyboard? Both could easily change your gear priorities overnight. Its not the right time of year to buy new stuff unless one is very very sure on the choice!
So how about keeping your Abyss which is a massive polysynth and see what happens in late January? Being just a little bit strategic can be a very good thing!
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Oh wow that is quite a change and its happening fast. Going for calmness is a very good goal. Good you are focused on the cost challenge.
As said previously: I really think you should wait with Rev2 until after NAMM as who knows what DSI will offer this time around? What if it was a VS or a sampler based keyboard? Both could easily change your gear priorities overnight. Its not the right time of year to buy new stuff unless one is very very sure on the choice!
So how about keeping your Abyss which is a massive polysynth and see what happens in late January? Being just a little bit strategic can be a very good thing!
I see your point, but the "problem" is that, even if it was a VS/Sampler like thing they came up with, it would not make the REV2 obsolete for me... the reason to get the REV2 is two fold for me: 1. The possibility to get 16 voices, and 2. it's analog oscillators... I really want analog oscillators in at least one of my synths, and with 16 voices I cannot wish for more... it has it all except for some digital oscillators, and that is exactly where the P12 comes in... 12 voices with both FM and Wavetable synthesis and audiorate modulation... no other synth comes close (maybe the PEAK, but I've read that it's MIDI specs are shit, so I'm not touching that one)... I do not think DSI will deliver any other analog oscillator synth with 16 voices of polyphony at NAMM to be honest.... and also... to sit and wait for "what is coming" would only defy the whole point... waiting for yet more "if/maybe" gear... see the point? ... The p12 and REV2 has what it takes right now... and IF that DSI sampling synth should be unveiled at NAMM... well... then I still have that ONE stereo slot left in my mixer... sampling technology is basically the only real thing I will be lacking.... on the other hand, my previous experiences with samplers is that I never get anything done on them, mainly because I have to prepare a lot of samples... with synths that you cannot "put anything into" it's all selfcontained, and I do not have to worry about samples, wavetables etc... that is an advantage for me really... still... sampling IS something that gives me some options the REV2 and P12 cannot... so we'll see... it will depend VERY MUCH on how storing and handling samples will be implemented for me to jump on such a sampling synth from DSI :) ... to some extend I allready will have "sampling" when I record stuff live thru the Evolver via microphones... it would also be much more intuitive than making samples fit the score... i can simply make the stuff I record thru the microphone fit the score :) ... I do not know if I'll even need more than the REV2 and P12 plus microphone/Evolver combo... time will tell... but one thing is certain... with only REV2 and P12 I can EASILY make a lot of Ambient... I really do not need any more than that to be honest (except the PCM92 for the reverb that is).
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Take this suggestion as one in good faith; but, perhaps it might be better to buy one synth at a time and spend a lot of time with it, instead of buying a whole studio in the space of a couple weeks. You'll either love it, or not, and you'll know if you want to change direction before you finish the whole puzzle. For example, get a Prophet 12 and play it into the ground for like six months or a year before deciding what comes next.
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Take this suggestion as one in good faith; but, perhaps it might be better to buy one synth at a time and spend a lot of time with it, instead of buying a whole studio in the space of a couple weeks. You'll either love it, or not, and you'll know if you want to change direction before you finish the whole puzzle. For example, get a Prophet 12 and play it into the ground for like six months or a year before deciding what comes next.
I think you forget, that I've had both the P12 and Prophet 8 for a VERY long time in the past... I know these two very well having made editors for them etc... the REV2 is very much a Prophet 8 with some new bells and whistles, the P12 is exactly the same :) ... I do not think I will learn these two much better than I already do ... neither the Evolver I already have... that's why they have been chosen... I know them, and they are the most powerful for what I want to obtain with my music right now... waiting to see new things pop up will only mean more waiting time... I want to get started... preferably yesterday! :D
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Well... I just sold four of my synths today to a Danish celebrity musician named "Master Fatman"... the world is small after all :D ... this means that tomorrow, when he collects the items, I'll be able to order a Desktop version of the REV2 which I'm really looking forward to.... it will be the first of two (the next being the Prophet 12 which I had before and unfortunately sold in a studio frenzy).
I hope I will get one of the first ones arriving at my dealer which should be very soon... depends on how many preorders they have I guess... otherwise I'll just have to wait until next delivery.
It will be the 8-voice version, since I'd like to see first, if the 8 voices will do... if not I can allways buy the upgrade later (thanks to DSI for making this kind of upgrade).
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A short test of using just the Evolver Desktop thru a reverb, recording 4-5 tracks via HD recording...
All sounds made from scratch...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Evo.mp3
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Very nice, calm and pretty piece.
PS: Good old Master Fatman!? Cool!
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Actually, the signal flow and features of the Desktop Evolver is much like the P12... but I'll still keep the Dekstop Evolver, simply because it has a few very important sound sculpting features that I do not get with a P12.... it's mostly the true stereo configuration that attracts me, especially for wide stereo drone like sounds and effects... some of the nice tricks is in the way that you kan AM and FM the digital oscillators against each other, and having the synth split with two oscillators in each side it allows for some cool stereo perspectives... modulating the Filter split and the Panning also adds to the fun. P12 also lets you split two layers to each their side, but it does not have any means for the two sides to interfere with eachother since the layers cannot impact on each other... THAT is what makes the Evolver special in that regard.
Another important feature is the external inputs that are also stereo... I'll be connecting two microphones to the Evolver, which should allow for some realtime manipulation of acoustic things... it's not just the analog filter and VCA, but audio rate filter cutoff modulation, tuned feedback and the three delay lines will be fun to try and use to mangle the sound from the microphones (I plan on using different types of handdrums, flutes, bells and other obscure items for this... actually it should be possible to create some hybrid analog delay FX too using the feedback of the delays into the filter (you cannot do this with the oscillators, only from external audio)... on top of that, the distortion and highpass filter is also inside the audio path, which makes it possible to make delay iterations that change with each repeat. The Evolver will be connected via inserts which gives me the added possibility to use the Evolver Desktop both by itself for drones and FX, and at any time use it with the microphones connected to the same input channels on the mixer.
I have decided (by the way), to stop using my PCM92... my setup is too compact to allow any rack mountable gear unfortunately, so I'm using software plugins in my DAW instead... it works just as fine, and many reverb plugins are just as good these days... the PCM92 is also available in a plugin version anyway being totally algorithmically the same, so it's really insane to keep the PCM92 in that regard... it also gives me much more freedom in FX processing this way.
So I'm really happy with the way my studio is coming out now... small, uncluttered, compact, flexible etc... really looking forward to the day the four synths have been aquired, and I will not buy a single synth ever again, unless something can replace one of the "fantastic four" and do better... I am definitely looking forward to see what Dave comes up with next, because my gut feeling tells me, I'll be ending up with four DSI synths in the end... they are the most comprehensive, flexible, analog/hybrid and usually with the best SysEx specs allowing me to make SoundDiver editors for them.
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A short test of using just the Evolver Desktop thru a reverb, recording 4-5 tracks via HD recording...
All sounds made from scratch...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Evo.mp3
Very nice! How did you achieve the pouring water sound? Filter mod?
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A short test of using just the Evolver Desktop thru a reverb, recording 4-5 tracks via HD recording...
All sounds made from scratch...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Evo.mp3
Very nicely done Razmo, thanks for sharing. This is all "just" the Evolver + reverb?
I am going to buy a second hand Evolver desktop this evening, really looking forward to exploring it.
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A short test of using just the Evolver Desktop thru a reverb, recording 4-5 tracks via HD recording...
All sounds made from scratch...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Evo.mp3
Very nice! How did you achieve the pouring water sound? Filter mod?
I used all four oscillators set to triangle and sine waveforms, then a heavy dose of pitch modulation from all four LFO's... also the Panning was modulated... all via random LFO waveforms.... all of that was then put thru a single delay line, fed back into itself and a bit back to the filter too... a bit of hipass filter was put on it too, to eliminate the worst lowend rumbles. (that is the short version of how it was made hehe) ... If I remember correctly, the filter is also in self oscillation mode, being randomly modulated..... all in all... a lot of random modulation to OSC and Filter and Pan :) ... my goal was a bubbling sensation, but still a bit artificial... actually the speed of the random LFO's can be slowed with the mod wheel, but I did not use this in the demo.
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A short test of using just the Evolver Desktop thru a reverb, recording 4-5 tracks via HD recording...
All sounds made from scratch...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Evo.mp3
Very nicely done Razmo, thanks for sharing. This is all "just" the Evolver + reverb?
I am going to buy a second hand Evolver desktop this evening, really looking forward to exploring it.
Yes... only a single Evolver Desktop thru a Lexicon PCM92 reverb (the bubbly sound is actually going thru a Valhalla Shimmer plugin instead)... I admit that a lot of the ethereal feel comes from the verbs... but this is normal with Ambient music... I recorded 4-5 layers on my DAW for this... that is the nice thing about layer HD recording... you can reuse your one monosynth as many times as you want :)
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I used all three oscillators set to triangle and sine waveforms, then a heavy dose of pitch modulation from all four LFO's... altsĺ the Panning was modulated... all via random LFO waveforms.... all of that was then put thru a single delay line, fed back into itself and a bit back to the filter too... a bit of hipass filter was put on it too, to eliminate the worst lowend rumbles. (that is the short version of how it was made hehe) ... If I remember correctly, the filter is also in self oscillation mode, being randomly modulated..... all in all... a lot of random modulation to OSC and Filter and Pan :) ... my goal was a bubbling sensation, but still a bit artificial... actually the speed of the random LFO's can be slowed with the mod wheel, but I did not use this in the demo.
Thanks for the explanation! So there's actually more pitch mod in use than I thought. "bubbling sensation" really describes it well.
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I used all three oscillators set to triangle and sine waveforms, then a heavy dose of pitch modulation from all four LFO's... altsĺ the Panning was modulated... all via random LFO waveforms.... all of that was then put thru a single delay line, fed back into itself and a bit back to the filter too... a bit of hipass filter was put on it too, to eliminate the worst lowend rumbles. (that is the short version of how it was made hehe) ... If I remember correctly, the filter is also in self oscillation mode, being randomly modulated..... all in all... a lot of random modulation to OSC and Filter and Pan :) ... my goal was a bubbling sensation, but still a bit artificial... actually the speed of the random LFO's can be slowed with the mod wheel, but I did not use this in the demo.
Thanks for the explanation! So there's actually more pitch mod in use than I thought. "bubbling sensation" really describes it well.
Yes... a lot! ... I wanted the randomness of the "bubbles" to be as wild as possible, so the LFO's is set to different speeds, and if one LFO is used on more destinations, the amount is different and in negative modulation... I wanted the pitch changes to blend in randomly and to "fly around" in the stereo spectrum.... unfortunately the delay lines are mono, and that is why you can hear the tail of the bubbles gradually "flow" to the center.... but that's a limitation of the Evolver itself :) ... I've always wanted to do such a preset in combination with a true stereo delay because if the bubbles hit randomly in the stereo field, and the delay is true stereo, then the delays of each bubble will be located at the same place in the stereo field... that would make all the delays spread in the same fashion... think it will sound cool... but I still have not tried it out... think I will with the REV2 if it is a true stereo delay it has... it will not be as dense as the Evolver preset here, since it only has two oscillators though... but a layered A/B preset could do it.
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Yes... a lot! ... I wanted the randomness of the "bubbles" to be as wild as possible, so the LFO's is set to different speeds, and if one LFO is used on more destinations, the amount is different and in negative modulation... I wanted the pitch changes to blend in randomly and to "fly around" in the stereo spectrum.... unfortunately the delay lines are mono, and that is why you can hear the tail of the bubbles gradually "flow" to the center.... but that's a limitation of the Evolver itself :) ... I've always wanted to do such a preset in combination with a true stereo delay because if the bubbles hit randomly in the stereo field, and the delay is true stereo, then the delays of each bubble will be located at the same place in the stereo field... that would make all the delays spread in the same fashion... think it will sound cool... but I still have not tried it out... think I will with the REV2 if it is a true stereo delay it has... it will not be as dense as the Evolver preset here, since it only has two oscillators though... but a layered A/B preset could do it.
Thanks for the additional info! I might have a go at something like this on the Pro 2 with hardpanned delays and a split filter setting for more randomness.
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I've decided to listen to some of the advice given here by a few of you... I'll buy the REV2 Keyboard this week, instead of the module version.
The reason is simple really... my Roland A-70 is really good, but I really do not need 76 keys, just the usual standard 61 that the REV2 keyboard has... the REV2 also has quality FATAR keys which helps take this decision. Also, the A-70 has a lot of features that I never use... most of the control surface I never touch, so it is a waste of space... I'd rather have the REV2 controls spread out in such a place... also having the REV 2 inside my keyboard controller saves me some precious deskspace, plus it allows for better tweaking, and leaves the other precious space on my shelf above my table free for the two other modules I plan on getting.
Another reason for waiting with the Prophet 12 is that I can then (as other mentioned) use some time with just this one synth, getting to know it in depth without other modules to take away my attention... also creating a lot of presets for it solely.
This does not mean that the Prophet 12 is not wanted anymore, because it is... it will give me a lot of other synthesis types to use, but I can wait, and I probably will wait until after Winter NAMM getting one... seeing what Dave has been up to first etc... who knows he COULD end up releasing a Prophet 12 REV2 :D ... though I doubt it...
When I get my Dreadbox Abyss sold, I'll buy the REV2 upgrade to max the REV2 up to full specs.... and then a long time delving into this one synth will be my main goal until I have saved up for a P12.
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my Roland A-70 is really good, but I really do not need 76 keys, just the usual standard 61 that the REV2 keyboard has...
That’s a very logical choice... especially considering the Rev2 control layout. That will lead to some happy tweaking for sure.
I’ve been reading your *rant* lately with some interest... mostly because you’ve expressed some of my same frustrations with chasing gear. So similarly to you, I’ve gotten rid of a lot of stuff. I now have only 2 synths: the OB-6 and a Moog Minitaur. I will limit myself to a total of 5 (will power, folks, will power). The other 3 would fall somewhere along the lines of:
1) a monster analogue monosynth. Not necessarily a Moog, but a Voyager or Model D would certainly fit the bill. And depending on the analogue mono I get, the Minitaur may find itself on Reverb.
2) a synth that so far has yet to be determined. I’ll see if anything catches my attention this NAMM. I’d love to hold out for a new Sampler synth that I want DSI to release.
3) a P12 or P6 (yes, I know they are a bit different, but I can coax P6ish sounds out of the P12 if that’s all I had). This decision is also going to be informed by what happens with #2. I’m leaning toward the P12 because it covers various synthesis types (Wavetable-ish, FM).
Sorry, didn’t mean to hi-jack your thread. But you’re not alone in this “frustration with self” over eternally chasing gear.
Carry on...
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my Roland A-70 is really good, but I really do not need 76 keys, just the usual standard 61 that the REV2 keyboard has...
That’s a very logical choice... especially considering the Rev2 control layout. That will lead to some happy tweaking for sure.
I’ve been reading your *rant* lately with some interest... mostly because you’ve expressed some of my same frustrations with chasing gear. So similarly to you, I’ve gotten rid of a lot of stuff. I now have only 2 synths: the OB-6 and a Moog Minitaur. I will limit myself to a total of 5 (will power, folks, will power). The other 3 would fall somewhere along the lines of:
1) a monster analogue monosynth. Not necessarily a Moog, but a Voyager or Model D would certainly fit the bill. And depending on the analogue mono I get, the Minitaur may find itself on Reverb.
2) a synth that so far has yet to be determined. I’ll see if anything catches my attention this NAMM. I’d love to hold out for a new Sampler synth that I want DSI to release.
3) a P12 or P6 (yes, I know they are a bit different, but I can coax P6ish sounds out of the P12 if that’s all I had). This decision is also going to be informed by what happens with #2. I’m leaning toward the P12 because it covers various synthesis types (Wavetable-ish, FM).
Sorry, didn’t mean to hi-jack your thread. But you’re not alone in this “frustration with self” over eternally chasing gear.
Carry on...
You're not hijhack'in anything :D just rant... that is what this topic is all about ;)
And you're right... seems we are in the same "problem" ... pretty close actually because I've also thought about one big monosynth to take care of the bass departments that the other synths do not... but I'm hesitating getting one simply because I'm hesitating getting anything monophonic.
The reason is mostly because of the genre I want to be doing.... I like the booming MOOG sound, and it was a must when I did techno and rhythmically induced music in the past... but with Ambient, I'm not so sure if a MOOG will be it's money worth in use.... sure, MOOGs are used often for Berlin School basslines, but I really do not think I cannot do these with a REV2... and if it needs some bottom end, my mixer has EQ for this purpose.
For what I do, I'll need polyphony most of all, and certainly also a very deep synthesis engine to create all the FX and wonderful strange noises I'd need in this genre... and a MOOG is usually rather limited compared to a DSI synths flexibillity in the engine department... I've been thinking about a Subsequent37, but I'm not going to do it.
I need to have access to as many synthesis types I can, in just three, maybe four synths... so that put a lot of demand on the devices... I could have gone for a P6 or OB6, but three things make the REV2 a better choice for me... The polyphony, The deepness of the engine, and not the least; PRICE! ... I want ONE polysynth with analog oscillators, and the REV2 is the best fit in almost any category of my requirements.
But a REV2 alone will at some point meet it's limitations anyway, mainly because of the analog oscillators lack of sound pallette... I will need digital oscillators as well, which is where the P12 comes in... it gives me both VA, Wavetable and FM synthesis options, with a whopping 12 voices also, and a very deep engine plus audio rate modulation... it will be the perfect complementation to the REV2 for me.
And after that, I'd say I'm covered.... almost... I'd certainly be able to do loads of nice Ambient music with just those two synths... but I lack ONE crucial element; Vocals, natural FX and ambiences etc.... or in other words: I lack sample oscillators... and I'll patiently wait until something shows up with this combined with analog VCF/VCA... I REALLY REALLY hope Dave would take this up at some point.
With these three synths, I cannot see that I'd need much more.... sure you could get other synths in the future that is largely based on these synthesis types and some extra bells and whistles, but I'd not feel that I lack anything to make the Ambient that I want to...
That is why I think I'll end up with 3... maybe 4 synths in the end.... but they will be VERY VERY VERY carefully picked out, that is for sure...
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I have decided (by the way), to stop using my PCM92... my setup is too compact to allow any rack mountable gear unfortunately [...]
Out of curiosity: how much are you selling your PCM92 for? Checked the Thoman price. It looks quite expensive!
I've decided to listen to some of the advice given here by a few of you...
Sounds like a plan. Very happy to hear that. Wish you could arrive at a point where the studio setup is not changed so often as it costs you a lot of money. And who knows maybe that change could make you afford a P6 or OB6 some day in the future?
When I get my Dreadbox Abyss sold, I'll buy the REV2 upgrade to max the REV2 up to full specs.... and then a long time delving into this one synth will be my main goal until I have saved up for a P12.
Just listening on the Abyss. It sounds really good. Sad you are selling it!
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I have decided (by the way), to stop using my PCM92... my setup is too compact to allow any rack mountable gear unfortunately [...]
Out of curiosity: how much are you selling your PCM92 for? Checked the Thoman price. It looks quite expensive!
I've decided to listen to some of the advice given here by a few of you...
Sounds like a plan. Very happy to hear that. Wish you could arrive at a point where the studio setup is not changed so often as it costs you a lot of money. And who knows maybe that change could make you afford a P6 or OB6 some day in the future?
When I get my Dreadbox Abyss sold, I'll buy the REV2 upgrade to max the REV2 up to full specs.... and then a long time delving into this one synth will be my main goal until I have saved up for a P12.
Just listening on the Abyss. It sounds really good. Sad you are selling it!
1. I'm not selling it yet, because I'd really like to be nondependant on software plugins if I can... I'm trying to find a physical space for it at the moment... but if I sell it, it will go for about 66-75% of the Thomann price.
2. That is also my reason to cut down... I'm not getting a P6 or OB6 though... the REV2 does way more than those, for half the price, deeper engine and more polyphony... I only need one polysynth with analog oscillators... I'm 100% certain I'm not getting one of those two :)
3. Yes... the Dreadboxes sound really good, but are very limited, has no presets which I want them to now... I tried the hands-on approach, and it's not really me... too limited sound pallette with analog monosynths... I know the Abyss is 4-voice poly, but it's still limited in comparison to the REV2 ... It's the deal with what I'm doing now... I have to make some hard choices on what I NEED and what I WANT... I should only have what I NEED... because my head works strangely... if I start to have two synths that are too similar, my brain goes "then why not that and that and that one too!?" ... have to stop thinking like that. Having all options quickly grows into a completely larger than life studio... been there done that... several times... no work... they say, that if you always do the same, and it does not work, then maybe you should do things differently... that's where I'm at now... I have to make restraints from falling into the GAS pit.
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... it's done... it's on it's way :)
Now I just hope it will be 100% working, and not give me any encoder problems like I've read about in the REV2 forum...
It's the 8-voice version, so that I can test it out a bit first before ordering the voice upgrade... also it's nice to be able to split the cost up a bit...
Will start on a SoundDiver editor right away, so I guess I'm off to analyze every byte of the dump like I did with the P12, since DSI has stopped providing information on this on their synths (a really bad move in my opinion... puts a hell of a lot of work on people wanting to make editors).
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Will start on a SoundDiver editor right away, so I guess I'm off to analyze every byte of the dump like I did with the P12, since DSI has stopped providing information on this on their synths (a really bad move in my opinion... puts a hell of a lot of work on people wanting to make editors).
That's too bad. I wouldn't have bothered to write Wav2Evolver without good documentation, and I would have had a lot less fun with my Mopho, as I wrote a ton of inline editors in C. That's the 80/20 Rule, I guess. Still, it should be readily available for those who ask, because don't they need it formatted for internal use?
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Will start on a SoundDiver editor right away, so I guess I'm off to analyze every byte of the dump like I did with the P12, since DSI has stopped providing information on this on their synths (a really bad move in my opinion... puts a hell of a lot of work on people wanting to make editors).
That's too bad. I wouldn't have bothered to write Wav2Evolver without good documentation, and I would have had a lot less fun with my Mopho, as I wrote a ton of inline editors in C. That's the 80/20 Rule, I guess. Still, it should be readily available for those who ask, because don't they need it formatted for internal use?
I think so too... but DSI never really answered on this when the topic was up with the P12... I WILL analyze it nonetheless, and make my own list... I believe I even posted this list for P12 back then on the old DSI forum for others to use... and yes... they must have this list somewhere in-house, if at least in a code format like the one they DID supply me with for the Tempest back then...
I'm pretty certain I will write them and ask for this anyway... does not hurt to try...
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Will start on a SoundDiver editor right away, so I guess I'm off to analyze every byte of the dump like I did with the P12, since DSI has stopped providing information on this on their synths (a really bad move in my opinion... puts a hell of a lot of work on people wanting to make editors).
And I should put myself together to send off an information request to DSI. This information will enable me to do slight better than the current state of sysex specifications for the newer instruments.
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Have been looking at the MIDI specs of the REV2 closely this afternoon... and it looks like the usual DSI specs (without SysEx structure unfortunately), but one thing caught my eye... the NRPN value range for the 6 polyphonic sequencer steps has values from 128-255 ... I find that a bit odd... I wonder why that is, and why it is not from 0-127 ...
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The good thing is that once you have the instrument in front of you its very easy to check what NRPN values are actually produced.
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The good thing is that once you have the instrument in front of you its very easy to check what NRPN values are actually produced.
Yeah... the weird thing is that it's only for the velocity... the note values are 0-127... i wonder if it's an internal "and" thing of the two that makes something easier to program... Note on data are note first, then velocity after... maybe that is why the velocity values range from 128-255 ... but only DSI will know why they made it this way I guess.
I'll see what problems this can make for me in SoundDiver... because if the SysEx structure has values of 0-127 for velocity, but NRPNs that you use to send changes from SoundDiver til REV2, then it might give some headaches as I need to store the value in memory being 0-127 for the SysEx dumps to work, but 128-255 when sending NRPNs out to edit the synth at the same time... I'm not sure SoundDiver can do this.... but at least it can drop sending single NRPNs out, and make a full SysEx dump instead... this just takes quite a bit of MIDI bandwith sending out a whole dump for changing just ONE parameter... but maybe with USB you will not really sense the difference as this is a hell of a lot faster...
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Do check out the sequences in Pro 2. Could be a related problem. Besides that: maybe ask DSI directly once instrument have arrived and described values are actually produced by the instrument.
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Besides... I'm not so sure I'll even need an editor for it... I'll do one anyway, simply because I need SoundDiver's abillities in bank management and library functions, but when I look at the REV2 interface you almost have a full one-function-per-knob interface... I do not think I'll get that much easier programming by doing this from the computer at all... it's different with the P12 which I also plan to get next, even though the module is easy to program, there is still a lot of parameters not accessible at the same time, making an editor more reasonable..
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I'm finally at the end of my 25+ year long road to finding the perfect studio for me, and the workflow that works best.
I recently talked about having only 3-4 synths... I actually decided that I can easily make a piece of Ambient music with just ONE synth, when I do harddisk recording in layer style, so the number has now been reduced to just ONE!
Yes... ONE synthesizer (with build in keyboard always), routed into my Lexicon PCM92 for FX, and then from there into my DAW's soundcard for recording. A bit of EQ on my DAW may be used if necessary, otherwise nothing else.
It's probably the smallest setup you can have with external gear I'd say, but it's very intuitive, and it's easy to deal with... synth must have a well working frontpanel editor because SoundDiver WILL be history... do not want to make editors anymore, it takes too long time and has too many compromises.
The ideer is to only buy keyboard synths in the future... because I still want a few more synths that finds my interest and compliment each other... I might use just one on a track sometimes, at other times I'll swap the synth while making a track... but the ideer is that at any one time, only ONE synth is connected.
The REV2 is the first and only synth I've got for this setup for quite some time... it will take some time to save up for other keyboard synths since they are quite expensive, but sometime early next year I hope to buy a Prophet 12 Keyboard as my second one... in the future I'll be looking out to see if I can find a used Poly Evolver Keyboard as well, but that might be hard to find... just have to keep my eyes open... A Quantum may also be a candidate at some point, but in general, very few manufacturers deliver the needed criteria for what I want.... Polyphony, and 100% analog or Hybrids... I want no 100% digital keyboards... if I ever get one, it'll be a Roland - V-Synth GT once again... it's the only digital synth that seriously catch my interest...
So next week will be a time for creating presets for REV2, and also sort in all the Prophet presets available to store the best of them in the REV2's memory... thank god DSI has started to allow you to overwrite the factory presets... I REALLY need those slots when I'm not using SoundDiver as a browser ever again... A lot of preset must also be created for the Lexicon PCM92, so that I have a lot of ready made presets fit for Ambient... that is the cool thing about recording it directly into the DAW... this way I have no limits anymore... I can use the synth as many times as I want, and the FX can be changed for every sound I want something special for.
This setup is really relieving my studio stress level... technically everything is kept to a minimum... minimum cable clutter, no external mixer.... just ONE synth standing in the middle of my desktop, connected to the PCM92 placed right above it on a shelf where I can easily reach it, which is right below my 4K monitor which I have mounted on the wall to save shelf space.... a mouse and a qwerty keyboard in front of the keyboard... and that's it... a pair of small monitors is to be bought and placed on the shelfs two ends, otherwise the rest will be just inspiring art decorations to further fuel my imagination when composing.
This also made any MIDI interface redundant... I need only one MIDI port, and that is included in my RME AIO soundcard, along with both the stereo analog I/O I need for speakers, phones and the synth.
Everything is kept at a minimum... I like this :)
Rant over...
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I'm finally at the end of my 25+ year long road to finding the perfect studio for me,... Rant over...
Somehow I doubt that... :)
In a similar vein, I recently started building a “synth cabinet”... a place to store synths not actively in use. Out of sight, out of mind, concentrate on making music with the piece of gear in front of you. When I want another synth, they will be accessible. Pull out a drawer, there’s my OB6; pull out another drawer, there’s my P12....
Cheers!
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I'm finally at the end of my 25+ year long road to finding the perfect studio for me,... Rant over...
Somehow I doubt that... :)
In a similar vein, I recently started building a “synth cabinet”... a place to store synths not actively in use. Out of sight, out of mind, concentrate on making music with the piece of gear in front of you. When I want another synth, they will be accessible. Pull out a drawer, there’s my OB6; pull out another drawer, there’s my P12....
Cheers!
Well... I cannot say much to that, as I understand why you people would not believe me after all those times I've said that :D ... but yes... as you say... a synth cabinet is exactly what I'll be creating, though it'll be huge... only keyboard synths :)
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I've had the REV2 8-voice now for two days, and I'm really really impressed with it. I cannot say what it is, but I know others have said it sounds "better" than the P08... if that is because of the added features or just placebo I wanted to find out, so I tried a few of my old P08 presets, and I also find that something is "better"... it's hard to describe, but I'd say it is in the clarity... maybe the frequency response, do not know... does not matter anyway, it's a definite keeper, and as soon as I've gotten the money, I'm ordering the voice upgrade card for sure because I actually felt the shortness of voices, mainly because most of the factory presets use stacked mode.
The factory presets are also A LOT better than previous DSI synths in my opinion... a lot more playable, and actually (to my surprise), a lot of them can be used in Ambient music as well, so a thumbs up for that!
The keybed is simply amazing... I was a bit worried that I had gotten too much used to the TP/8S from my Roland A-70, and yes... the Roland is still a bit better, but it's so little it does not really matter at all... in fact I do not even miss it after just two days of playing the REV2... I also believe that the thing I like about the old TP/8S is that the keys themselves are more rounded, and not as square as the ones on the newer FATAR keybeds... that allow for better sliding of your finger between keys, where the REV2 ones are a bit more "edgy"... Also love the nice NORMAL pitch and mod wheels... was tired of Rolands joystick, and the ones that I remember from the Blofeld keys was horrible... slippery, and thin with an annoying tab.
If I have to make one complaint about the REV2, it would be that the programming of the gated sequencer is horribly unintuitive... but I understand that there is no space for the knobs... besides I'd really NOT like it to be like on the P08 where knobs double in function, so I'm on the other hand glad it is the way it is... but this is what will make it certain that I'll be doing a SoundDiver editor for the REV2 very soon... some editing will be done on this, if not all... depends on how easy it is for me to get used to e real physical editing interface... I've been used to SoundDiver for decades.
I REALLY like the build in effects too... they allow for sculpting presets with the FX as part of it, something I really like... I have only one external FX device (Lexicon PCM92) that is going to be used to create the joint space between all the instruments in my composition, and it's nice to not have to use this for other duties than reverb... REV2 will do all the other FX I need just fine.
I could not wish for a better poly analog synth than the REV2 ... very very happy about my purchase here.
The next one I'll buy sometime next year is a Prophet 12 keyboard... it will perfectly compliment the REV2 for anything it cannot do like wavetables, FM synthesis and other digital tricks... The interface looks almost as hands on as the REV2, and as I'll only be using one synth at a time (HD recording in layers) I'll be swapping them out as I need them in a project.
These two synths will practically cover must of the synthesis options that I need for doing ambient music... only ONE type is missing... sample synthesis oscillators... but you've heard me rant about this several times by now, so I will not torture you with more explanations of what it is that I want... I'll just have to wait and see what happens, with my fingers crossed :D
End of todays rant (I think)...
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A few words about the REV2 now that I've had it for a few days... still good (aside from a few bugs)... if I would have to put my finger on anything, I have two things:
1. The LEDs of the four LFOs seem to not vary that very much in intensity when the shape is Triangle... when the rate is set low enough you can clearly see that the light never fades to completely off in the cycle... I wonder why that is, when the other shapes do reach completely off... the LEDS actually look rather dull when set to Triangle shape... not that it matters much, I just find it a bit odd.
2. The Reverb effect... really not fond of it to be honest, but ok, I'm a rather demanding person when it comes to this, and when I have a Lexicon PCM92 running by it's site it may be an unfair judgement... it's no where near smooth, and have a rough metallic sound to it... also the decay of the reverb is not capable of reaching lengths I'd like for Ambient music.... it's probably good enough for shorter ambient tones, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be using it much... the other FX sound remarkably good though... honestly I'd have liked to see a pingpong delay in there... more than that reverb to be honest.
The rest of this machine I simply love... when the "birth defects" has been taken care off, this will surely be a classic... at least for me... one thing I really like about this is that the pitch and mod wheel has been placed above the keys... that makes the keyboard a lot more compact, which is really cool when you do not have a lot of desktop space available.
And oh yes... one more thing I really miss from Dave's usual way of making his synths: The leds showing active voices... I do not know why he left these out, mostly because I saw in his video, when he was messing with a prototype, that the LEDS seems to actually be inside on the board... i could see them shift inside the prototype... there are plenty of space for these 16 LEDS on the right of the keyboard... I do think though, that I know why... probably because of the 8/16 voice versions... it would probably look weird on the 8 voice versions, having 8 LEDs that never will be used unless you upgrade it to 16 voices.... maybe also some cost saving reasons... I do not know what 16 holes extra would cost... I'm not certain either, if the LEDs I saw on the prototype is actually included on the curcuit board in the units out for sale.... I just love to be able to see how many voices are in use... maybe a feature update where we can see these on the OLED display instead... but dare I ask for a feature? ... who knows...
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I'm finally at the end of my 25+ year long road to finding the perfect studio for me,... Rant over...
Somehow I doubt that... :)
In a similar vein, I recently started building a “synth cabinet”... a place to store synths not actively in use. Out of sight, out of mind, concentrate on making music with the piece of gear in front of you. When I want another synth, they will be accessible. Pull out a drawer, there’s my OB6; pull out another drawer, there’s my P12....
Cheers!
Finished the "Synth Cabinet" (except for attaching doors) -- Notice the empty slot. ;D
Actually 2 empty slots. The white one is an Arturia Controller. It's expendable.
(https://i.imgur.com/jWrMX3l.jpg)
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I'm finally at the end of my 25+ year long road to finding the perfect studio for me,... Rant over...
Somehow I doubt that... :)
In a similar vein, I recently started building a “synth cabinet”... a place to store synths not actively in use. Out of sight, out of mind, concentrate on making music with the piece of gear in front of you. When I want another synth, they will be accessible. Pull out a drawer, there’s my OB6; pull out another drawer, there’s my P12....
Cheers!
Finished the "Synth Cabinet" (except for attaching doors) -- Notice the empty slot. ;D
Actually 2 empty slots. The white one is an Arturia Controller. It's expendable.
(https://i.imgur.com/jWrMX3l.jpg)
Nice! ... is it made for pulling them out when you need them, or is it just a storage facility?
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I'm finally at the end of my 25+ year long road to finding the perfect studio for me,... Rant over...
Somehow I doubt that... :)
In a similar vein, I recently started building a “synth cabinet”... a place to store synths not actively in use. Out of sight, out of mind, concentrate on making music with the piece of gear in front of you. When I want another synth, they will be accessible. Pull out a drawer, there’s my OB6; pull out another drawer, there’s my P12....
Cheers!
Finished the "Synth Cabinet" (except for attaching doors) -- Notice the empty slot. ;D
Actually 2 empty slots. The white one is an Arturia Controller. It's expendable.
(https://i.imgur.com/jWrMX3l.jpg)
Nice! ... is it made for pulling them out when you need them, or is it just a storage facility?
Able to pull the shelves out. Simple, archaic, but functional design.
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Wise words from the old master: https://youtu.be/NYWANrXNbMU?t=9m46s . o O ( ;) ;) ;) )
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Wise words from the old master: https://youtu.be/NYWANrXNbMU?t=9m46s . o O ( ;) ;) ;) )
Yep... takes quite some years before you realize what he is saying... I do not give much for his advertising though... it's so obvious... first he praise Erica Synths modules, and then you realize it's actually Erica Synths that are conducting the "interview"... I've seen him advertise more than once lately, so I do not buy any of the shit he's praising really... ;)
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Yep... takes quite some years before you realize what he is saying...
That was exactly my point. Wise word from an experienced gentleman.
I do not give much for his advertising though... it's so obvious...
Indeed! Maybe its all about getting the word out for the next generation and earning a little sponsor money?
In any case: I like to listen to him anyway. I think/hope that I can filter out the advertisement parts and enjoy his wise words by themselves. Obviously things are changing for him but I still see him as an important person in the synthesizer world that is well worth listening to.
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Yep... takes quite some years before you realize what he is saying...
That was exactly my point. Wise word from an experienced gentleman.
I do not give much for his advertising though... it's so obvious...
Indeed! Maybe its all about getting the word out for the next generation and earning a little sponsor money?
In any case: I like to listen to him anyway. I think/hope that I can filter out the advertisement parts and enjoy his wise words by themselves. Obviously things are changing for him but I still see him as an important person in the synthesizer world that is well worth listening to.
Absolutely!... he's still one of my top-favourites in electronic music... Jarre & Shultze probably share the top 1 for me :) ... probably along some Commodore64 SID composers like Rob Hubbard, Martin Galway, Ben Daglish, Fred Grey, David Whittaker and others...
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Absolutely!... he's still one of my top-favourites in electronic music... Jarre & Shultze probably share the top 1 for me :) ... probably along some Commodore64 SID composers like Rob Hubbard, Martin Galway, Ben Daglish, Fred Grey, David Whittaker and others...
You mean Klaus Schulze (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Schulze)? Think I have spend too much time listening to jazz instead of electronic music. Sounds like an interesting career!
PS: Seen this https://youtu.be/CYaRzXSCnDo video? Nice darker soundscapes!
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Absolutely!... he's still one of my top-favourites in electronic music... Jarre & Shultze probably share the top 1 for me :) ... probably along some Commodore64 SID composers like Rob Hubbard, Martin Galway, Ben Daglish, Fred Grey, David Whittaker and others...
You mean Klaus Schulze (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Schulze)? Think I have spend too much time listening to jazz instead of electronic music. Sounds like an interesting career!
PS: Seen this https://youtu.be/CYaRzXSCnDo video? Nice darker soundscapes!
Yes... Klaus Shulze ... he's one of the first pioneers... think he even predates Jarre, and that Jarre got several inspirations from him as well... quite a big load of albums he has done, and he play them synths live.
Never heard that in your link, but I like it... :)
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The Prophet REV2 editor I've been working on is more or less finished... I still have a few parameters in the SysEx structure I do not really know what is, and are waiting for info regarding just that... I decided not to include the poly sequencer since it's basically easier to edit it via recording on the REV2 itself, but I may include it later... it's just REALLY tedious to set up all those darn notes/velocities, so there is a bit of lazyness involved as well he he :D
This editor will make programing new sounds a breeze, since all parameters are visible at the same time on my screen, which I prefer... at the same time, the memory management is nice to have, as I can easily treat all 1024 program locations as RAM locations... via MIDI you can overwrite the factory programs easily, and with the SoundDiver memory management system it's a breeze... also creating huge libraries of sounds is nice, especially because the REV2 has no ways of categorizing programs, which makes it a nightmere to find what you want from the 1024 programs available.
I guess I'll never really be free from using SoundDiver... it has been such a great and essential part of my studio for tens of years now... I guess that the day the program does not work anymore, I'll have to stop upgrading the OS of my DAW, and just stick with it "as is", and get another PC just for the internet and other stuff that need the newest.
This is getting even more pressing now because the DAW that I've been using just as long (SONAR) has been discontinued, and I have NO intention to start using anything else... this is one of the reasons I've always wanted to get away from using a computer with my music, but I just have to realize, that it's not going to happen... ever...
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Finally sold my Dreadbox - Abyss, so now I have a voice upgrade for the REV2 coming my way one of the next days... will be cool to add those extra voices, especially in stacked mode... the REV2 just sounds so much fuller and more complex when you can use two layers, each with their own stereo FX per layer... 6-8 voices is usually my minimum for a polyphonic synth, and now this will be possible even with stacked programs :)
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/REV2PAD.mp3
I made an ambient pad on the REV2 yesterday, and drenched it in Valhalla Shimmer reverb... quite impressive ambience. It's a straight out from the REV2, into my RME HDSPe AIO soundcard, and then recorded with the reverb plugin added... nothing else...
I've decided that my Lexicon PCM92 is going to be sold... it's simply overkill to have it, as the Lexicon plugins is litterally a one on one replica, and doing FX in the DAW is just so much more flexible, and gives me less hardware to clutter up my workspace... in addition, as I record in layers, every plugin on a track can be "freezed" when not working on it, and unfreezed when needed... this is a huge advantage for me.
So in the future, I'll have only ONE keyboard synth plugged into the soundcard... the soundcard has a single MIDI I/O as well, so it's perfect for my usage... when my 16voice upgrade hit my studio tomorrow, I'll be off to making some music :)
I've been thinking A LOT about how the studio should be ... I have to choose one solution of two... 1. 3 synths always connected and no more, or 2. only one keyboard synth connected, but being able to buy more keyboard synths in the future to swap between... I've chosen the last solution, mainly because I feel I will never be able to stop the GAS, and also because I like the simplistic ideer of plugging just ONE synth in at a time... it will be much easier to handle, more simple, less space needed, less cable clutter.
The first thing I'll be getting next is a studio table that will fit my working place... it's not cheap, but I don't really care... I want this setup to be perfect...
oh... and by the way, still very happy with my REV2, even in spite of the few quirks still present... I hope DSI will fix them though :)
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The first thing I'll be getting next is a studio table that will fit my working place... it's not cheap, but I don't really care... I want this setup to be perfect...
https://output.com/products/platform?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsdHUqs3_1wIVVbnACh3XCQILEAAYASAAEgJAKvD_BwE (https://output.com/products/platform?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsdHUqs3_1wIVVbnACh3XCQILEAAYASAAEgJAKvD_BwE)
I had looked at getting one of these, but made one instead.
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The first thing I'll be getting next is a studio table that will fit my working place... it's not cheap, but I don't really care... I want this setup to be perfect...
https://output.com/products/platform?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsdHUqs3_1wIVVbnACh3XCQILEAAYASAAEgJAKvD_BwE (https://output.com/products/platform?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsdHUqs3_1wIVVbnACh3XCQILEAAYASAAEgJAKvD_BwE)
I had looked at getting one of these, but made one instead.
Remind me of the ZAOR I have had for a lot of years (Miza88)... but I need something a bit smaller actually, and more compact... the one I'm after now is this one:
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The first thing I'll be getting next is a studio table that will fit my working place... it's not cheap, but I don't really care... I want this setup to be perfect...
https://output.com/products/platform?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsdHUqs3_1wIVVbnACh3XCQILEAAYASAAEgJAKvD_BwE (https://output.com/products/platform?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsdHUqs3_1wIVVbnACh3XCQILEAAYASAAEgJAKvD_BwE)
I had looked at getting one of these, but made one instead.
Remind me of the ZAOR I have had for a lot of years (Miza88)... but I need something a bit smaller actually, and more compact... the one I'm after now is this one:
Don’t know how much that is, but it seems like you could make something like that fairly inexpensively... and customize it to your specifications (for example, instead of 3U rack spaces, 2U or 4U).
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The first thing I'll be getting next is a studio table that will fit my working place... it's not cheap, but I don't really care... I want this setup to be perfect...
https://output.com/products/platform?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsdHUqs3_1wIVVbnACh3XCQILEAAYASAAEgJAKvD_BwE (https://output.com/products/platform?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsdHUqs3_1wIVVbnACh3XCQILEAAYASAAEgJAKvD_BwE)
I had looked at getting one of these, but made one instead.
Remind me of the ZAOR I have had for a lot of years (Miza88)... but I need something a bit smaller actually, and more compact... the one I'm after now is this one:
Don’t know how much that is, but it seems like you could make something like that fairly inexpensively... and customize it to your specifications (for example, instead of 3U rack spaces, 2U or 4U).
Yes... if I had the skills, and the dedication... which I unfortunately do not... it is pricey (about half the price of a REV2 16voice module)... I know it's insane, but my design OCD simply crave that it's handy, compact, sturdy etc...
Actually the rack-spaces I will not need... I'm still thinking about just getting an I/O option for my soundcard, giving me 3 analog stereo I/O and keep it there with three synths... I really do not need more to make the music I want, and I'm burning like hell to end my GAS... so I'm seriously thinking about just placing the REV2 on the shelf (it will fit perfectly!), and then buy a PROPHET 12 MODULE as the second synth... the third synth is still unknown, but I'm 99% certain I'll wait with that until some company makes something with sampling/granular in it in a desktop version.
With that setup, the keyboard will be on the shelf, and the two modules in the back, right in front of the rack spaces, leaving the front area open for keyboard and mouse for the computer... I am planning on buying two 1U rack lights with multicolor LEDS for the top 1U space on each side... the ones below will most likely not be used, unless I find two analog FX processors that I'd like the two modules to run thru before entering the soundcard... having a stereo filter there could prove useful to smooth tracks in and out live... but I only know of one such rack filter... the Vermona Action Filter.
Otherwise, the lowest 1U will probably be given one of those "half 1U" blind panels, so that a bit of opening is available at the bottom for routing cables around to the back of the table.
I think that such a setup will most likely be what I'm ending up with because the P12 keys which I was planning on getting, is exactly 1cm too short to fit on the keyboard shelf... so I know that fitting 61key keyboards will be a problem for other machines as well... the REV2 is nicely compact because it has the wheels above the keys, not besides, and I really like the FATAR keybed in this synth, so why not use it with the P12 module as well.... I'll loose the sliders but I can live without those.
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I doubt that DSI will come up with a sampler-synth soon (if ever), so I had to find another solution to this now... besides, I hardly think DSI would include some of the sampling features I need, so I decided to go for a V-Synth again because I need the formant and timestretching features of the VariPhrase technology...
Yes, I've had the V-Synth XT before... I even had the V-Synth GT for a while... I need one with keyboard because I have decided to only have one synth connected at a time, so I had the choice between the first V-Synth keys and the GT version... The GT is overkill, and cost way too much more than I'm willing to give... so I managed to find a V-Synth keys in very good condition... I'll have it early next month.
The Prophet 12 will have to wait a bit, but it's still on the list of keyboard synths I'd want to have.
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Never heard that in your link, but I like it... :)
Belief Defect as they are called sounds really nice! Here is a story about their setup:
http://cdm.link/2017/11/can-learn-belief-defects-modular-pc-live-rig/
Berlin Atonal sounds like an interesting festival. Here is a video from the year before:
https://youtu.be/J8tW-3qiXKY
Its always good to dream and reach higher (https://youtu.be/6ZJghIk7_VA).
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Do not know why I never thought of this, but I've always felt that with factory presets, I never had enough ambient pad sounds, and just a bunch of not so useable presets... felt I always had to create all that I need myself (being very cumbersome to be honest)...
Then, with the V-Synth I started to create template presets for pad sounds, thinking I could just change the sample used to get a lot of different ambient pads from only minor tweaks on the template... that worked really well actually...
The point is, that this is also possible with any other synthesizer... just tried it with the REV2's factory presets... and practically every single program can be quickly turned into a gorgeous pad sound for ambient... the only thing needed to do is change the VCF/VCA envelopes ADSR parameters... like a sustained sample on the V-Synth, an oscillator is also a "sustained sample" being modulated by the envelopes... same thing... and I'm still puzzled I did not think of this before...
This makes me realize that my V-Synth also has some built in template editor where you simply select a type of sound that you want, like pad, plucked, blown etc... and the envelopes are then set up to quickly assume the correct settings for such a sound... it's a smart way to get loads of quick new sounds from existing sounds... and where the samples have movement in themselves, a synth like the REV2 has all the modulations going on from the original program... making it possible to think of the programs as "samples" in a sense... and from the REV2 front panel, editing the envelopes is really fast and quick... the cutoff and env amount knobs are the only other parameters that needs a tweak sometimes in addition to the envelopes, to do this... in a few cases, the auxiliary envelope may be in use as well and need some tweaking, but in most cases it's just the cutoff, env amount and VCF/VCA envelopes that needs tweaking... put on some deep reverb from an external FX processor/plugin, and you have hundreds of gorgeous moving pad sounds at your fingertips :) any original sound will do... basses, FX, drums, leads... anything.
Somehow I could wish for a feature in the REV2 that could quickly set up these parameters for typical instrument configurations like PAD, LEAD, PLUCKED, BLOWN, ORGAN etc... some randomization feature would also be cool... the trick here is that it should be possible to "mix" this into already existing programs... I'm not talking about "INIT" programs for special types of sounds because the timbre and modulations of an existing program should be kept intact... it's only the envelope contour that needs to change...
just some thoughts... :)
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Somehow I could wish for a feature in the REV2 that could quickly set up these parameters for typical instrument configurations like PAD, LEAD, PLUCKED, BLOWN, ORGAN etc... some randomization feature would also be cool... the trick here is that it should be possible to "mix" this into already existing programs...
That can be done just as well via an external program with the advantage of not having to wait for a firmware update in case something is not working or needing to be improved. It does require a fully working MIDI implementation though including access to and being able to update the current sound.
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Somehow I could wish for a feature in the REV2 that could quickly set up these parameters for typical instrument configurations like PAD, LEAD, PLUCKED, BLOWN, ORGAN etc... some randomization feature would also be cool... the trick here is that it should be possible to "mix" this into already existing programs...
That can be done just as well via an external program with the advantage of not having to wait for a firmware update in case something is not working or needing to be improved. It does require a fully working MIDI implementation though including access to and being able to update the current sound.
Yes... I thought about putting some "preset categories buttons" into my editor just for this... it's just a series of NRPNs with the right values, nothing else...
Still... it would be cool to see such features, if not in the REV2, then maybe in coming synths... but then again, it's no big deal just tweaking the EGs.... I won't die if it never happens, as I'd like to see bugs and other features implemented instead.... I was more or less dreaming... you get used to dreaming about features with DSI... :D
All in all, I'm just happy I can turn any sound into a gorgeous pad sound... still do not know why I've never thought about this before... it's so simple, but effective.
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Basically its templates for a subset of the parameters. Interesting application concept! ;)
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Another take... any sound through a Reverb set at 100% wet sounds paddish as well...
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Another take... any sound through a Reverb set at 100% wet sounds paddish as well...
Oh yes... definitely :D ... but it will not have long fade ins'n'outs unless the raw sound has it though... unless the reverb has some sort of freeze function, but then it will not stop :D
The fascinating thing about doing this (after I tried rather many randomly chosen programs) is that the sound does not resemble the original very much... you can't hear that it's taken from some other program, which makes the sound quite unique, which is a good thing if you are not fond of using too familiar sounds.
Also, sometimes I need a really dark pad for some Dark Ambient, and that is quite easy to get... you simply lower the filter cutoff and filter env amount as well... instant gloomy and dark timbres, and the more movement the original sound has, the more interesting it usually gets.
On my V-Synth all the movement is in the samples themselves, and as it plays the samples time stretched, the movement is the same in rate no matter where the sample is played... this should be possible on any synth more or less. How useful it would be on other types of sound categories I have yet to experiment with... but I think that basses may pose a problem if the original content is not filled with low frequency material though... but for pads it's really useful...
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Basically its templates for a subset of the parameters. Interesting application concept! ;)
Yes... I think so too... one of the cool thing about samples is that it's easier to come up with sounds without having to know about mixing oscillators and tweaking them... using samples is faster because you just choose a sample, and then throw that thru some EG contours in the VCF/VCA... so if you could somehow move that "scheme" into a synthesizer, then it would be a lot easier to make presets fast... you'd just have to decide what parameters constitutes the "sample", and what constitutes the "contour".
I actually think that the Nord Lead A1 is made a bit like this... where the oscillators are basically "grouped" into different categories...
Would be fun to create a synth with this scheme in mind... one where the OSC section include all the parameters needed to create the sound, and the LFO's that will make up a sustained but moving and evolving timbre... and then the other part that is the contour part.... and then be able to save both of these two parts as separate "programs" that you could mix and match... an FX section could then be the third part...
that is:
Oscillator section programs.
Contour section programs.
FX section programs.
then from the front panel, being able to select any combination of these three types of programs together into a "Combi Program". It would allow for really fast programing of sounds, and it could even include randomizing programs used in a combi... you could probably think of other nice features as well... this was just a brainstorming :)
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I am probably a bit conservative on this front as I would much prefer having expressive synthesizer voices and then let suggested sound composition tools be computer/tablet applications. Not at least for maintenance reasons.
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DAMN IT! ... I should not have sold my mobile recorder when I decided to go all analog earlier... now that I have the V-Synth keyboard coming tomorrow, I'll be in need of a recorder again to record all of the physical acoustic instrument stuff that I've accumulated (and want to accumulate more of in the future).
So I've had to buy a recorder again, and I cannot find anything that is more handy and perfect for my usage than the one I had before, so I've got a PCM-D100 on the way again... I know how to use this, so that's the advantage, and it is mobile so that I can record outdoors as well... also it will work standalone which is important because my computer is noisy, so if I would have to record things in my home, I'd be getting that noise into the mic if I used a normal microphone... with a mobile recorder, I can shut down the computer, then record what I need, and have full silence while doing it.
I'm really looking forward to get going with the recording and sample handling because the type of sounds I can get from samples and the V-Synth are so unique, that I cannot do most of it with anything else... it is more or less essential to use samples in ambient music, especially dark ambient that use down pitched weird real life samples for a lot of effects and mood.
But with this recorder home, I'm not going to be buying any synths for at least 6 months, and concentrate on making sounds and music instead... I really do not need more than the V-Synth and my recorder to make Ambient music... but the REV2 is really handy for the more dense synth pads, as the V-Synth easily run down to only 4 voices when using both of it's oscillators... REV2 will do most synthy and droney stuff... V-Synth will do strange mangled vocals, nature sounds and percussion/loops etc... the two complement each other well.
Next purchase will be a pair of very small monitors, just for listening when I do not want to sit with headphones on... so a pair of ADAM A3X will most likely be the solution... at a later date I may buy a pair of Sennheiser HD-800 for the composing and mixing phase... but my HD-650 works fine for now.
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...But with this recorder home, I'm not going to be buying any synths for at least 6 months.....
I want to believe you Razmo, but what happens to your thread then ;)
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...But with this recorder home, I'm not going to be buying any synths for at least 6 months.....
I want to believe you Razmo, but what happens to your thread then ;)
It will contain rants about what wonders I discover using the REV2 and V-Synth :D
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It will contain rants about what wonders I discover using the REV2 and V-Synth :D
With the Rev2 and V-Synth, that sounds more like praise than rants -- they are both pretty stable and solid sounding machines.
Maybe you'll post music instead?
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It will contain rants about what wonders I discover using the REV2 and V-Synth :D
With the Rev2 and V-Synth, that sounds more like praise than rants -- they are both pretty stable and solid sounding machines.
Maybe you'll post music instead?
Not instead.... but also :) ... and most likely also soundbanks for both REV2 and V-Synth...
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Well... a quick decision has been made... I returned the REV2, mainly because I really do not feel that I need it when I've got the V-Synth... analog VCF/VCA is not really that important when making ambient music, and I've got this feeling that I only want ONE synth to work with, and that one is the V-Synth...
So I'm DSI free again... and have no intention of buying anything else but a V-Synth GT when I can get my hands on one (looking for one right now).
The V-Synth basically gives me a bit of everything... it has VA synthesis, sampling synthesis and VariPhrase synthesis... if you record wavetables as samples, the VariPhrase technology will let you do timbres like wavetables as well that you can modulate... the oscillators can do ringmod and FM as well, so also have some FM tones capabilities... it has tons of COSM FX to further tweak, and a comprehensive FX section etc... formant synthesis too...
Summa Summarum... I do not NEED anything else to do what I want, and having only ONE keyboard synth makes everything extremely easy to comprehend... I can focus on this ONE synth, and become a "Jedi Master" in it, instead of dividing my time on hoards of other synths...
This also means that my GAS will shift to something else, and that has already started... I'm collecting lots of acoustic instruments of all sorts to record and use... I'll be creating everything I can myself, and the sounds I cannot record myself I'll be buying as sample packs (mostly samples of nature and vocals)...
So I do not know how valuable my presence here on the DSI forums will be in the future really... I'll have no DSI instruments again... I'll pop by now and then nonetheless, to discuss the new synths coming from DSI :)
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Which version of the V-Synth do you have? I’m still thinking of grabbing one and just looking at the various versions — V-Synth, XT, GT...
Thanks.
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Which version of the V-Synth do you have? I’m still thinking of grabbing one and just looking at the various versions — V-Synth, XT, GT...
Thanks.
I've had all three... but currently have the V-Synth Keyboard V2.0 ... I need the keys, but not the D50 and Voice processor software, so the XT is not for me... I'm probably going to get a GT as soon as I get the chance, but they are quite pricey compared to the V2.0... the only real stuff that I want from the GT are the extra polyphony, and the ability to layer two programs... but the GT cost (used) between two to three times as much as the V2.0...
If the only thing you're after would be the VariPhrase technology, the V2.0 would probably be the wisest choice unless you REALLY need that extra polyphony and layering capabilities... I can easily live with the V2.0 ... but it's always nice to have that extra polyphony and layering possibilities of course... but not exactly essential.... for me that is :)
The GT also has that early stage SuperNatural engine... but like the INTEGRA-7 the samples are fixed... you cannot use your own, and all of the nice mangling thru COSM stuff etc. are not for the SuperNatural synthesis... you can only layer the SuperNatural part with the VariPhrase/VA part... so it goes straight into the FX section... this greatly limits the usage of the AP synthesis (which is what the SuperNatural engine in GT is called).... other than that, three more Reverb algorithms are present in the GT, taken from the VP-550... I never found them important, as they only allow max 5sek decaytime... the standard ones in all V-Synths have up to 64 seconds of reverb decay time.
Then there are of course the means to use USB memory sticks for backup... the older versions use CF cards... but with a CF adapter it's not a big deal... I actually like the CF cards better...
Another thing is, that the most knobby of them all is the V2.0 keyboard... many prefer the old because of these knobs, and they sure are handy, letting you change important parameters on the fly without having to dive into the menus on screen... the layout is just a bit more intuitive... the display is monochrome though, but I do not see that as a big problem really... also, the outputs of the V2.0 are unballanced... on the XT and GT, the main outs are ballanced... still, with the 2.0 directly connected to my RME soundcard, the noise floor with unballanced outs are about -96db! ... it's a very quiet machine... all of the other I/O are basically the same on all machines... only difference here is that the USB connection on XT and GT allow for Audio interface usage as well... the 2.0 do NOT... on 2.0 the USB connection is used only for communicating with the built in memory and CF card, so that you can transfer samples directly between computer and internal/CF card memory (VERY HANDY!), and for USB MIDI functionallity... but please note that the drivers will NOT work on newer windows machines... you have to go back to at least XP with the 2.0 and XT, and win7 with the GT... windows 10 will NOT work with the drivers, and Roland has NO plans on updating them... so use the synth via MIDI cables... only way really...
If there is anything else you want to know, just ask :)
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Thanks for the detailed breakdown. There are too many techno-ish sound samples out there (duh, with the time stretch abilities, that is a given, but it is capable of so much more)... Have you recorded any ambient stuff with yours?
I am having a hard time deciding. I like the idea of layered programs and the vocal designer stuff as well. And yes, when it comes to Polyphony, more is more. Also I don’t have a way to put samples on a CF card — though I am sure I could get a card reader for my would prefer to just use USB.
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Thanks for the detailed breakdown. There are too many techno-ish sound samples out there (duh, with the time stretch abilities, that is a given, but it is capable of so much more)... Have you recorded any ambient stuff with yours?
I am having a hard time deciding. I like the idea of layered programs and the vocal designer stuff as well. And yes, when it comes to Polyphony, more is more. Also I don’t have a way to put samples on a CF card — though I am sure I could get a card reader for my would prefer to just use USB.
I have an old demo I made for the GT... I'll post that later...
There is no doubt, that if you get the GT the only two things you'd miss out on, is the D50 emulation, and the Voice processing software of the 2.0 card, and the built in one on the XT... the voicecard is somewhat built into the V-Synth engine on the GT which can be a plus, but it lacks some other features that is only present on the older models.... other than these two, you will probably only miss the extra knobs from the V2.0 keyboard, but if you never had one, you'd probably never miss them anyway.
The CF cards are actually not a problem... all you have to do is to buy a cheap PCMCIA -> CF card adapter... then you put the CF card in that and use it that way... very efficient... all you need to know is that the two older models CANNOT use more than max 2GB CF cards... it will read and write even to 64GB cards (I've tried) but the display screws up writing the correct free memory, so I'd not rely on it not causing any trouble... 2GB CF cards are easily obtainable still, and do not cost that much... with the GT and USB you'd be able to have larger storage of course, but honestly... a full bank won't exceed 50-60MB as this is the limit of the V-Synth memory... imagine how many banks of that size you can fit on a single 2GB CF card ;)
The GT is the best choice if money is not the question, and you do not care for the differences I've mentioned... but you have to make certain that double polyphony and layering capabilities is worth two times the money of a V2.0/XT ... if it is... get the GT, it's that simple :) ... if you can find one :D
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...and by the way... when you connect a V-Synth to your computer via USB, both the V-Synths internal memory (flash), and the inserted CF card/USB stick will instantly be available from your computer, just as a simple USB stick or other flash memory device... all parts of the project/presets/samples are available as files here, even the waveforms can be loaded directly into an audio editor program... so backing up is really straight forward, everything organized nicely in project folders. There is even a software program you can downloed, that will allow you to backup and manage your banks, and join separate presets from different banks etc... very handy tool. It's called V-Synth Librarian.
And you do NOT need a card reader for your computer for the two older models... you just plug in the USB cable, and are good to go... the V-Synth acts as a "card reader/writer" by default ;)
You can also put the CF card into a card reader if you have one for your computer... same thing... works exactly the same... this is what I like so much about the V-Synth as a sampler... I'm FINALY free from using obscure hard to find SCSI devices, and strange sample transfer protocols that do not work in todays computer environments... that combined with the fact, that V-Synth is not meant to work with multi samples is just an enormous time saver... just use ONE sample for the entire keyboard range... no more multisample work with crossfades etc... yippee! :)
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Here is the demo I promised... it's using only the factory presets of the GT, but I tried to play them as "Ambient" as possible... some exceptions does occur though :)
It's raw GT... no external FX used.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/V-SynthGTTest.mp3
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Here is a short demo of some bell sounds I'm working on, that I sampled with my SONY PCM-D-100 mobile recorder... I'm working hard on making Ambient presets for the V-Synth at the moment... there are some ValhallaDSP Shimmer reverb on this one:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/BellsTest.mp3
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I simply got tired of the V-Synth.... again... I think I'm tired of programing synths to be honest, it takes too much time and they're too deep to get a lot of sounds fast... the V-Synth has been sold, and I'm currently waiting for something I thought and promised myself I would NEVER enter... the Eurorack world... yes... you read correctly... the terror has begun, the GAS is wide open again :)
..though... with a twist... I've bought myself a Waldorf KB37 that will work as my ONLY machine, with 107HP of modules, and build in 3octaves of FATAR keys... it will be the "nerve center" of my studio from now on... no more editing sounds prior to composing, that is now a part of the creative composing phase... that is also why I've settled with ONLY the KB37... simply because it's not too big and hard to comprehend (destroying the creative flow), or too small and unflexible like a single little desktop synth
With such a system, I'll be able to buy all the modules I want because I'll simply sselect 107HP worth of modules for a given project, and use those to HD record a full score.... then the next project may house 107HP of other modules or any combination
This way of doing it makes certain that I do not get bored with a hardwired setup, and gives me the opportunity to let the GAS flow when I want to, without having to change things all the time, and worse: sell stuff all the time.
My first module is a very simple Pittsburgh - LIFEFORMS SV-1 synth voice... that is mainly to get started, and the module has a bit of everything more or less and works good as an entry module for me... it also cram a lot of functionality into a very little space.
Reverb and Delay will be taken care of with software plugins in my HD recording DAW, as that is the most flexible.
I've also bought a pair of small ADAM A3X studio monitors... I do not need them bigger and I really like the sound of these monitors.
My musical genre will still be Ambient... I'll be getting modules that can play samples that I record with my SONY PCM-D100 mobile recorder, for mangling in the eurorack world, and I have other modules on my mind as well... I'll be getting a wavetable oscillator soon as well to add some exstra harmonic possibilities to the analog oscillators of the LIFEFORMS module.
So... if you have any good tips on modular, don't hesitate discussing them here because I'm still pretty new in this modular world... even though I know how a module works pretty fast, the combined possibilities of a lot of them can be a bit more hard to comprehend... it is (for example) hard to decipher which modules are crucial etc... it took some time before I understood the importance of having a lot of VCA's and Mults for example... so I'm sure there will be lots of eye opening revelations for me in the coming months as I toy with the KB37 :)
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I simply got tired of the V-Synth.... again... I think I'm tired of programing synths to be honest, it takes too much time and they're too deep to get a lot of sounds fast... the V-Synth has been sold, and I'm currently waiting for something I thought and promised myself I would NEVER enter... the Eurorack world... yes... you read correctly... the terror has begun, the GAS is wide open again :)
..though... with a twist... I've bought myself a Waldorf KB37 that will work as my ONLY machine, with 107HP of modules, and build in 3octaves of FATAR keys... it will be the "nerve center" of my studio from now on... no more editing sounds prior to composing, that is now a part of the creative composing phase... that is also why I've settled with ONLY the KB37... simply because it's not too big and hard to comprehend (destroying the creative flow), or too small and unflexible like a single little desktop synth
With such a system, I'll be able to buy all the modules I want because I'll simply sselect 107HP worth of modules for a given project, and use those to HD record a full score.... then the next project may house 107HP of other modules or any combination
This way of doing it makes certain that I do not get bored with a hardwired setup, and gives me the opportunity to let the GAS flow when I want to, without having to change things all the time, and worse: sell stuff all the time.
My first module is a very simple Pittsburgh - LIFEFORMS SV-1 synth voice... that is mainly to get started, and the module has a bit of everything more or less and works good as an entry module for me... it also cram a lot of functionality into a very little space.
Reverb and Delay will be taken care of with software plugins in my HD recording DAW, as that is the most flexible.
I've also bought a pair of small ADAM A3X studio monitors... I do not need them bigger and I really like the sound of these monitors.
My musical genre will still be Ambient... I'll be getting modules that can play samples that I record with my SONY PCM-D100 mobile recorder, for mangling in the eurorack world, and I have other modules on my mind as well... I'll be getting a wavetable oscillator soon as well to add some exstra harmonic possibilities to the analog oscillators of the LIFEFORMS module.
So... if you have any good tips on modular, don't hesitate discussing them here because I'm still pretty new in this modular world... even though I know how a module works pretty fast, the combined possibilities of a lot of them can be a bit more hard to comprehend... it is (for example) hard to decipher which modules are crucial etc... it took some time before I understood the importance of having a lot of VCA's and Mults for example... so I'm sure there will be lots of eye opening revelations for me in the coming months as I toy with the KB37 :)
I’ve been fighting the temptation to get a KB37 as well. Seems like the perfect starting point for a modular setup. Don’t overlook the Waldorf Wavetable module. It also samples! :)
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I simply got tired of the V-Synth.... again... I think I'm tired of programing synths to be honest, it takes too much time and they're too deep to get a lot of sounds fast... the V-Synth has been sold, and I'm currently waiting for something I thought and promised myself I would NEVER enter... the Eurorack world... yes... you read correctly... the terror has begun, the GAS is wide open again :)
..though... with a twist... I've bought myself a Waldorf KB37 that will work as my ONLY machine, with 107HP of modules, and build in 3octaves of FATAR keys... it will be the "nerve center" of my studio from now on... no more editing sounds prior to composing, that is now a part of the creative composing phase... that is also why I've settled with ONLY the KB37... simply because it's not too big and hard to comprehend (destroying the creative flow), or too small and unflexible like a single little desktop synth
With such a system, I'll be able to buy all the modules I want because I'll simply sselect 107HP worth of modules for a given project, and use those to HD record a full score.... then the next project may house 107HP of other modules or any combination
This way of doing it makes certain that I do not get bored with a hardwired setup, and gives me the opportunity to let the GAS flow when I want to, without having to change things all the time, and worse: sell stuff all the time.
My first module is a very simple Pittsburgh - LIFEFORMS SV-1 synth voice... that is mainly to get started, and the module has a bit of everything more or less and works good as an entry module for me... it also cram a lot of functionality into a very little space.
Reverb and Delay will be taken care of with software plugins in my HD recording DAW, as that is the most flexible.
I've also bought a pair of small ADAM A3X studio monitors... I do not need them bigger and I really like the sound of these monitors.
My musical genre will still be Ambient... I'll be getting modules that can play samples that I record with my SONY PCM-D100 mobile recorder, for mangling in the eurorack world, and I have other modules on my mind as well... I'll be getting a wavetable oscillator soon as well to add some exstra harmonic possibilities to the analog oscillators of the LIFEFORMS module.
So... if you have any good tips on modular, don't hesitate discussing them here because I'm still pretty new in this modular world... even though I know how a module works pretty fast, the combined possibilities of a lot of them can be a bit more hard to comprehend... it is (for example) hard to decipher which modules are crucial etc... it took some time before I understood the importance of having a lot of VCA's and Mults for example... so I'm sure there will be lots of eye opening revelations for me in the coming months as I toy with the KB37 :)
I’ve been fighting the temptation to get a KB37 as well. Seems like the perfect starting point for a modular setup. Don’t overlook the Waldorf Wavetable module. It also samples! :)
Certainly! ... it's one of the more complex modules though... I would prefer the modules to not have too much menu-diving and double function buttons/knobs... but it still looks interesting... but I have been looking at the Erica Synths - Black Wavetable Oscillator, as well... I really like the idear of it having ROM wavetables so I do not have to fiddle with any more wavetable in/out stuff... also the module is hands on which I like... but certainly I'll be looking at the Waldorf one too before I buy...
The KB37 was not a hard choice for me ... the main thing is that it has build in keys of good FATAR quality, but also that this option puts the modular stuff right in front of me, within reach which is paramount as I intend on doing live tweaks as well... also it has a lot of cool features... i especially like that it has built in ARP and paraphonic capabillities, and interfaces with my DAW pretty easily.. also the compactness is crucial... my studio environment is REALLY cramped down these days... it's a corner table 120*120 cm, so space saving is of utmost importance to me... besides... the FATAR keys are TP9... same as in the Blofeld keys that I've had... they are really fine quality... so it really was a no brainer :)
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So you already have the KB37? What do you think of the build quality?
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I think you'd find the Make Noise Morphagene right your wheelhouse. Everything on the front panel can be automated with CV, so it opens up a lot of musical space.
I have Phonogene, which is basically the older version. It handles time stretching differently, and doesn't have an SD slot, but along the same lines, and it's a blast.
The basic idea is that you take some sound (from an external source, or from your own modular, or wherever) and break it into splices. These splices can be organized, triggered, and selected via CV, and broken into grains, which can be advanced with a trigger or scrubbed through with CV, forward or reverse. It fires a trigger signal at the end of each splice, for synchronization with other stuff. The whole design is pretty brilliant. I'm a big fan.
I hope you enjoy the KB37. I considered getting one when I started. It turned out that exploring modular sort of turned me off to the whole idea of a piano-style keyboard for a synthesizer, but I still think the KB37 is a pretty good idea. Just keep in mind that it doesn't have a 5V rail when you're choosing modules. There are workarounds, but it's a good thing to keep an eye on. You don't want to buy a module and have no idea why it's not working.
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Also, in general, building a small system is sort of a balancing act. You might feel the need to get the smallest modules possible to maximize functionality in 107HP, but don't forget that you also want the thing to be enjoyable to play, or there's no point.
Consider getting yourself a Korg SQ-1. That thing's a helluva bang for the buck.
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So you already have the KB37? What do you think of the build quality?
No, but I ordered it yesterday... it is on it's way and will be here either tomorrow or monday... I'll let you know about the build quality once it gets here :)
But if it is normal Waldorf Quality it's usually pretty good... the FATAR TP9 keybed I've tried more than once... it is in both the Blofeld Keys and also the newer DSI keys like the REV2... they are really hi quality keys with good velocity and aftertouch response, so I'm not worried about those... that was one of the BIG factors in deciding on the KB37... if it had crappy keys I'd not have gone for it, that is for sure.
The case is definitely metal, and it has build in power supply, so no wallwarts either... i consider that good quality as well. The power rail is divided into two each with 1A of power which seems fair enough, but they advice you to split the modules equally on the two rails to sort of ease the distribution.
So I guess that the only thing where I have to see about quality is in the connectivity, but the specs looks awesome, and they claim that their converters for the CV's are 16bit... also a big plus since the quality of that will be paramount when it has to control everything.
The only thing that would have bothered me is that it has only three octaves... but that is really only a problem when you want to play with two hands and a lot of polyphony, which is not the case with most modular gear anyway... the KB37 does allow for duophonic playing, and of course you can use the MIDI out to play a polyphonic synth as well which may make you feel a bit limited in the keyrange, but I have no plans on getting any polyphonic synth, though I could get one if I needed it at some point, just to handle some poly duties... I even might get just one for this, but I will wait and see if I get the urge... I'll try and do poly stuff by recording one voice at a time first though it's not really the same performance wise...
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I think you'd find the Make Noise Morphagene right your wheelhouse. Everything on the front panel can be automated with CV, so it opens up a lot of musical space.
I have Phonogene, which is basically the older version. It handles time stretching differently, and doesn't have an SD slot, but along the same lines, and it's a blast.
The basic idea is that you take some sound (from an external source, or from your own modular, or wherever) and break it into splices. These splices can be organized, triggered, and selected via CV, and broken into grains, which can be advanced with a trigger or scrubbed through with CV, forward or reverse. It fires a trigger signal at the end of each splice, for synchronization with other stuff. The whole design is pretty brilliant. I'm a big fan.
I hope you enjoy the KB37. I considered getting one when I started. It turned out that exploring modular sort of turned me off to the whole idea of a piano-style keyboard for a synthesizer, but I still think the KB37 is a pretty good idea. Just keep in mind that it doesn't have a 5V rail when you're choosing modules. There are workarounds, but it's a good thing to keep an eye on. You don't want to buy a module and have no idea why it's not working.
Yeah... i actually stumbled upon a demo of that Make Noise module yesterday... it is definitely on my list of modules to buy, as it will probably be really neat together with some of the recordings I'll be doing with my mobile recorder, and for ambient stuff in general :) ... it did sound a bit convoluted when explained, and I'm not sure i understood the concept fully, but I'll look more into it when deciding on buying one at some point.
Regarding the modular concept and a keyboard... yes, I can see why many would feel that way, but my problem with a modular without the ability to play it musically is that I want to make music, not just make bleeps and bloops like I see on so many modular videos... that is fun too I believe, but it's crucial that I can see my setup sort of like you would a small desktop analog synth for example... I guess it depends on what you want to do with your modular system :)
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Also, in general, building a small system is sort of a balancing act. You might feel the need to get the smallest modules possible to maximize functionality in 107HP, but don't forget that you also want the thing to be enjoyable to play, or there's no point.
Consider getting yourself a Korg SQ-1. That thing's a helluva bang for the buck.
Actually I think it is a bit of both... I've been doing a few "setups" in advance, just to try and create a good system to work with, and I usually end up with one or two bigger modules, 3-4 medium modules and the rest is smaller... I'm not particularly going for small modules i think, that seems to happen when I'm left with less than 7HP in the setup... i think it's because my first setup is based on the LIFEFORMS module with an additional modulation tools module from Pittsburgh that is 8HP wide... these two together give a rather good selection of the most important modules together in just 56 units... I think that in most cases, I'll be using one big synth-voice module and gang that up with other modules that complement the synth-voice... there are quite a few of these synth voice modules around, and I plan on getting more of these for this purpose... they usually have a fair selection of both oscillators, filter, amplifier and modulation sources, which means that I do not have to get that many other modulation sources in the setup to get it rolling... usually a combi module with an ekstra LFO and some sort of EG will do I think... then perhaps an extra digital oscillator or two will spice things up in addition the the synth voice's analog oscillators (which they usually are)... after that it's basically stuff like delay, phaser, chorus, flanger, distortion modules etc. that I go for... sequencers are not that important to me because i need to work with MIDI and my DAW for the HD recording, so sequences are done by my DAW, otherwise it will be very hard to sync the layered tracks together... besides, the LIFEFORMS module has a build in arpeggiator, and so does the KB37, that can be used as a small 8note "semi-sequencer" if you just use it in "played order" mode... if I get any sequencers it would be mainly for doing rhythimcal changes to parameters... not for triggering notes really.
Also, one of the important things for me is that it does NOT get too big... sound design will be part of the music composing, so I need a middle sized setup that is not too long to patch up, but also not so simple it lacks flexibility... I feel right now, that the 107HP is just about right... there may be situations where I'd wish I could have put a few more HP in there maybe, but on the other hand, the constraints will get me to THINK and be creative... I've always loved working under limitations, and found too much flexibility boring and creativity killing... should I end up finding that I could maybe use ekstra space without sacrificing these things, I can easily find space right behind my KB37 for one of the new Arturia RackBrute cases... this particular case is chosen because it has legs that elevate it up, as it would have to be located behind the KB37... and in front of my computer monitor... this would be the most ideal case because of that and would give me an additional 88HP for other stuff... and even if that is not enough, I still have space for two small desktop skiff cases on either side of the KB37... but then my desktop space would have reached it's limit, and I really do not believe I'll ever get the need for those to be honest... the RackBrute... maybe... but if I can avoid it, I will :)
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Also... there is one more thing when it comes to the 107HP only thing... I'm not planning on creating just ONE setup, and never change it... my plan is to continue to buy modules I find interesting, and then swap modules out when I start on a new project... it'll be a "one setup per project" kind of approach... that keep me from getting bored with a hardwired setup of modules, and will make every project a bit unique in that it's based on a restrained number of different modules... the moduels not used will just be stored for later use... maybe one day in the future I'll sort the modules into groups like oscillators, filters, amplifiers, modulation, effects and combi... then I'll pick a randomly chosen module from each group for a project, and use that for a project... might be a fun approach I think, and it'll force me to think more when using the setup :)
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Also... there is one more thing when it comes to the 107HP only thing... I'm not planning on creating just ONE setup, and never change it... my plan is to continue to buy modules I find interesting, and then swap modules out when I start on a new project... it'll be a "one setup per project" kind of approach... that keep me from getting bored with a hardwired setup of modules, and will make every project a bit unique in that it's based on a restrained number of different modules... the moduels not used will just be stored for later use... maybe one day in the future I'll sort the modules into groups like oscillators, filters, amplifiers, modulation, effects and combi... then I'll pick a randomly chosen module from each group for a project, and use that for a project... might be a fun approach I think, and it'll force me to think more when using the setup :)
It's an interesting approach. The flexibility you get with modular is incredible. Your views will evolve as you go, if you stick with it for a while.
For example, if you get enough modules, you'll think about the best way to store them for easy access. In their boxes? At some point you may decide that the best way to "store" them is in an external rack case, so you can just grab them. And then you'll realize that, having "stored" them in a case, you might as well spend a hundred bucks for a little power supply... At which point, you have another synth! It sort of creeps up on people.
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Also... there is one more thing when it comes to the 107HP only thing... I'm not planning on creating just ONE setup, and never change it... my plan is to continue to buy modules I find interesting, and then swap modules out when I start on a new project... it'll be a "one setup per project" kind of approach... that keep me from getting bored with a hardwired setup of modules, and will make every project a bit unique in that it's based on a restrained number of different modules... the moduels not used will just be stored for later use... maybe one day in the future I'll sort the modules into groups like oscillators, filters, amplifiers, modulation, effects and combi... then I'll pick a randomly chosen module from each group for a project, and use that for a project... might be a fun approach I think, and it'll force me to think more when using the setup :)
It's an interesting approach. The flexibility you get with modular is incredible. Your views will evolve as you go, if you stick with it for a while.
For example, if you get enough modules, you'll think about the best way to store them for easy access. In their boxes? At some point you may decide that the best way to "store" them is in an external rack case, so you can just grab them. And then you'll realize that, having "stored" them in a case, you might as well spend a hundred bucks for a little power supply... At which point, you have another synth! It sort of creeps up on people.
Funny that you mention it, because I actually have been thinking about how to store the ones not in use... putting them back in their boxes will be rather tedious I think... Then I got the same idear that you mention... actually imagined a huge modular wooden rack hung on the wall, so that I could have a good view of them, both as a kind of "wall art", but also so that I could stand in front when picking them out for a project... I just did not think about putting a power rail in it as you say :D ... that would be very dangerous he he...
But I'd have to get A LOT of modules before this would become a "full painting on the wall"... still, it is the most intriguing way of storing them, and it might be how I end up storing them actually :) ...
I know that all I see talking about the modular world seems to have given up on the thought of controlling their GAS, and as such, they really want to impose that GAS on everyone else who want to enter the modular world... maybe they want someone to sympathize with? :D ... I won't say that "I can handle it"... because I've never been able to handle GAS in any other aspect, and frantically I'm one of the worst when it comes to GAS... but on the other hand, I'm therefore also one prone to wanting to END IT somehow... so maybe I have the knowledge and skills to do it now.... who knows :D
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Also... there is one more thing when it comes to the 107HP only thing... I'm not planning on creating just ONE setup, and never change it... my plan is to continue to buy modules I find interesting, and then swap modules out when I start on a new project... it'll be a "one setup per project" kind of approach... that keep me from getting bored with a hardwired setup of modules, and will make every project a bit unique in that it's based on a restrained number of different modules... the moduels not used will just be stored for later use... maybe one day in the future I'll sort the modules into groups like oscillators, filters, amplifiers, modulation, effects and combi... then I'll pick a randomly chosen module from each group for a project, and use that for a project... might be a fun approach I think, and it'll force me to think more when using the setup :)
It's an interesting approach. The flexibility you get with modular is incredible. Your views will evolve as you go, if you stick with it for a while.
For example, if you get enough modules, you'll think about the best way to store them for easy access. In their boxes? At some point you may decide that the best way to "store" them is in an external rack case, so you can just grab them. And then you'll realize that, having "stored" them in a case, you might as well spend a hundred bucks for a little power supply... At which point, you have another synth! It sort of creeps up on people.
Funny that you mention it, because I actually have been thinking about how to store the ones not in use... putting them back in their boxes will be rather tedious I think... Then I got the same idear that you mention... actually imagined a huge modular wooden rack hung on the wall, so that I could have a good view of them, both as a kind of "wall art", but also so that I could stand in front when picking them out for a project... I just did not think about putting a power rail in it as you say :D ... that would be very dangerous he he...
But I'd have to get A LOT of modules before this would become a "full painting on the wall"... still, it is the most intriguing way of storing them, and it might be how I end up storing them actually :) ...
I know that all I see talking about the modular world seems to have given up on the thought of controlling their GAS, and as such, they really want to impose that GAS on everyone else who want to enter the modular world... maybe they want someone to sympathize with? :D ... I won't say that "I can handle it"... because I've never been able to handle GAS in any other aspect, and frantically I'm one of the worst when it comes to GAS... but on the other hand, I'm therefore also one prone to wanting to END IT somehow... so maybe I have the knowledge and skills to do it now.... who knows :D
Not a “wooden box” but a good starter solution for, ahem, “storage”...
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Mantis2104Bu (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Mantis2104Bu)
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Ohh... by the way, there is TWO things about the KB37 that irritates me... but I guess it's a luxury problem...
1. why the hell 107HP!? ... why not 106 or 108!? ... in all the setups I've been trying to make, that ONE HP seems to always be left with a 1HP blind panel because most modules are either 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 16 (you get the point) HP wide...
2. the PSU... Waldorf placed this in the right side making the max depth (of the last 18HP) no deeper than 25mm... that can be a problem in some cases... i know that they placed the MIDI module all to the left for a reason, and the output section to the right for a reason... but if those two sections was ganged together, they COULD have stuffed the PSU under there, preventing the 25mm depth problem on the far right of the case... this makes it a bit harder to fit the modules you want in there in a specifically laid out order, but I guess it's still a luxury problem...
Other than that, I have no more gripes with the KB37... but IF they ever do a 5 octave version... I'll certainly be on it without a doubt...
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Also... there is one more thing when it comes to the 107HP only thing... I'm not planning on creating just ONE setup, and never change it... my plan is to continue to buy modules I find interesting, and then swap modules out when I start on a new project... it'll be a "one setup per project" kind of approach... that keep me from getting bored with a hardwired setup of modules, and will make every project a bit unique in that it's based on a restrained number of different modules... the moduels not used will just be stored for later use... maybe one day in the future I'll sort the modules into groups like oscillators, filters, amplifiers, modulation, effects and combi... then I'll pick a randomly chosen module from each group for a project, and use that for a project... might be a fun approach I think, and it'll force me to think more when using the setup :)
It's an interesting approach. The flexibility you get with modular is incredible. Your views will evolve as you go, if you stick with it for a while.
For example, if you get enough modules, you'll think about the best way to store them for easy access. In their boxes? At some point you may decide that the best way to "store" them is in an external rack case, so you can just grab them. And then you'll realize that, having "stored" them in a case, you might as well spend a hundred bucks for a little power supply... At which point, you have another synth! It sort of creeps up on people.
Funny that you mention it, because I actually have been thinking about how to store the ones not in use... putting them back in their boxes will be rather tedious I think... Then I got the same idear that you mention... actually imagined a huge modular wooden rack hung on the wall, so that I could have a good view of them, both as a kind of "wall art", but also so that I could stand in front when picking them out for a project... I just did not think about putting a power rail in it as you say :D ... that would be very dangerous he he...
But I'd have to get A LOT of modules before this would become a "full painting on the wall"... still, it is the most intriguing way of storing them, and it might be how I end up storing them actually :) ...
I know that all I see talking about the modular world seems to have given up on the thought of controlling their GAS, and as such, they really want to impose that GAS on everyone else who want to enter the modular world... maybe they want someone to sympathize with? :D ... I won't say that "I can handle it"... because I've never been able to handle GAS in any other aspect, and frantically I'm one of the worst when it comes to GAS... but on the other hand, I'm therefore also one prone to wanting to END IT somehow... so maybe I have the knowledge and skills to do it now.... who knows :D
Not a “wooden box” but a good starter solution for, ahem, “storage”...
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Mantis2104Bu (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Mantis2104Bu)
Hehe... I've actually looked at that earlier when I wanted a desktop case... the thing that puts me off is that it's plastic really... but it probably does not matter much... but if only for storage, I'd probably considder something that can be hung on the wall... maybe even something DIY...
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I know that all I see talking about the modular world seems to have given up on the thought of controlling their GAS, and as such, they really want to impose that GAS on everyone else who want to enter the modular world... maybe they want someone to sympathize with? :D ... I won't say that "I can handle it"... because I've never been able to handle GAS in any other aspect, and frantically I'm one of the worst when it comes to GAS... but on the other hand, I'm therefore also one prone to wanting to END IT somehow... so maybe I have the knowledge and skills to do it now.... who knows :D
It's certainly a risk, given your plan to swap things out for each project. That plan essentially gives you unlimited space. I made it a point to avoid module accretion. I keep exactly what fits in my case. If something goes in, something has to come out, and the bar for replacement becomes higher and higher. Most recently, I swapped a 4HP dual VCA and a 4HP 3-channel mixer for an 8HP Tangle Quartet quad VCA, which also acts as a mixer. This gave me some cross-fading options that I didn't have before, which I considered a compelling reason to make the change. But I have to think that way, because I don't want to go crazy.
I might still go up to 168HP, which is one of the "standard" sizes. If I do, the Little Phatty has to go, in order to make physical room, and so I can shift the funds toward two extra modules. I also need to build a 6Ux84HP case. Building my own cabinetry is totally non-negotiable, and that's another mechanism to keep the size stable.
I've kept it pretty stable for almost two years, and I haven't lost interest in what I'm doing, so there's room for sanity in eurorack.
This is an interesting blog, specifically about the development of small eurorack systems. Adam's approach has a lot in common with mine. http://moonlitjourney.org/
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I know that all I see talking about the modular world seems to have given up on the thought of controlling their GAS, and as such, they really want to impose that GAS on everyone else who want to enter the modular world... maybe they want someone to sympathize with? :D ... I won't say that "I can handle it"... because I've never been able to handle GAS in any other aspect, and frantically I'm one of the worst when it comes to GAS... but on the other hand, I'm therefore also one prone to wanting to END IT somehow... so maybe I have the knowledge and skills to do it now.... who knows :D
It's certainly a risk, given your plan to swap things out for each project. That plan essentially gives you unlimited space. I made it a point to avoid module accretion. I keep exactly what fits in my case. If something goes in, something has to come out, and the bar for replacement becomes higher and higher. Most recently, I swapped a 4HP dual VCA and a 4HP 3-channel mixer for an 8HP Tangle Quartet quad VCA, which also acts as a mixer. This gave me some cross-fading options that I didn't have before, which I considered a compelling reason to make the change. But I have to think that way, because I don't want to go crazy.
I might still go up to 168HP, which is one of the "standard" sizes. If I do, the Little Phatty has to go, in order to make physical room, and so I can shift the funds toward two extra modules. I also need to build a 6Ux84HP case. Building my own cabinetry is totally non-negotiable, and that's another mechanism to keep the size stable.
I've kept it pretty stable for almost two years, and I haven't lost interest in what I'm doing, so there's room for sanity in eurorack.
This is an interesting blog, specifically about the development of small eurorack systems. Adam's approach has a lot in common with mine. http://moonlitjourney.org/
I guess anybody should just do it the way that works for them, and there are different routes to that end :)
In my case, the GAS is not a problem really... I'm not a materialist, and do not need my money to go to a lot of other stuff as well... i do not smoke, I rarely drink, I don't have a car or have great debt... so I do have the option to actually buy 1-2 modules a month if i want to... the alternative will be to spend the money on crap that I won't even have interest in, or really do not need... or they will be thrown away on other useless stuff really... the alternative is to save up... but for what!? so that my bank that gives me absolutely no rents can gamble them away in casino economics!? ... no... thinking about it, buying modules is just an investment, and one that I actually use in the things that matter in my life; my music... so I do not really give a shit what others may think when they see a wall of modules in the future, it's my life, my choice :D
What matters to me though, and the reason I've hated GAS for many years is the fact that GAS has prevented me from actually making music... I've allways been "waiting for this or that" before I could feel ready to start making music... it is not the purchasing in itself that is my problem with it... it's that nothing gets done here really... this is why I go with the small 107HP scheme here... so the alfa omega in having unlimited number of modules but a restricted project setup is to DO something with it! ... as long as I make music, I'm fine with my module GAS in the future... if that all makes sense :)
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Well I, for one, welcome another person on here with whom to shoot the $#!* about modules.
You seem to be a lot like me in this sense: You sort of swing back and forth between wanting comprehensive geek-out control of a system and then the compositional simplicity of a musical instrument. I'd keep swapping gear because I wanted to do complex curated programming, and then I wanted a simple instrument that I could just dial something up on the fly. But my paradigm didn't change daily; it changed maybe annually, which gave me the opportunity to decide that (for example) I didn't really want something as complex as a Wavestation, but what I really wanted was a digital piano. And then the digital piano wasn't enough, so it's time to get a Kurzweil K2000, and so swung the pendulum for years. So now modular seems to satisfy both of those paradigms, and it's survived a few of my cycles without loss of interest. The geek and the musician can each find something to like.
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Well I, for one, welcome another person on here with whom to shoot the $#!* about modules.
You seem to be a lot like me in this sense: You sort of swing back and forth between wanting comprehensive geek-out control of a system and then the compositional simplicity of a musical instrument. I'd keep swapping gear because I wanted to do complex curated programming, and then I wanted a simple instrument that I could just dial something up on the fly. But my paradigm didn't change daily; it changed maybe annually, which gave me the opportunity to decide that (for example) I didn't really want something as complex as a Wavestation, but what I really wanted was a digital piano. And then the digital piano wasn't enough, so it's time to get a Kurzweil K2000, and so swung the pendulum for years. So now modular seems to satisfy both of those paradigms, and it's survived a few of my cycles without loss of interest. The geek and the musician can each find something to like.
Yes... that basically sums it up pretty neat actually... I myself have a background in assembly programming on C64 and AMIGA, and loved to work under those constraints these machines had... I also have suffered depression and stress for so many years that my "battery" has been damaged mentally, which means that I cannot focus on things that get too comprehensive anymore... thus i need things to be fast, small and intuitive at the same time, which unfortunately is a diametrical opposition to nerdy, deep and enormously flexible which is what I did when I was younger... I really have no choice but to go for small, fast and intuitive, but often forget it in my amazement of new giga machines...
I have many times thought, that what I really SHOULD be doing, was start learning the guitar... or any other instrument that has no programing, is simple, and then just pick up and play... but my old love for "comprehensive, deep etc." is impossible to shake off... this is why my focus is now on the modular and small setup because I'm trying to make a sort of "modular guitar" if you get me meaning :) ... I really hope it works this time because otherwise, I've tried it all... litterally...
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Well I, for one, welcome another person on here with whom to shoot the $#!* about modules.
If you're thinking about modular, I would suggest watching this first:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwxvUofenC4
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Eurorack? Good luck with it, Razmo! :-X . o O ( GAO )
May I suggest that you get external cases for ready to use storage of your modules that you do not want to have on front row on the controller? If I were to go modular I would go for cases such as the 4ms modular rows.
What I don't like about eurorack is that all the modulation modules are so expensive and that building up a complex DSI style voice would be extremely expensive.
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What I don't like about eurorack is that all the modulation modules are so expensive and that building up a complex DSI style voice would be extremely expensive.
Yeah, I tried to price out an Evolver-style voice in ModularGrid, and it was way up there (around $6500USD), although there are better options now* than when I put that together.
On the other hand, I built a Buchla-style voice for around the price of a Minimoog D, so it doesn't have to be obscenely expensive.
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* I think the digital oscillators have gotten nicer, for example. Razmo was talking about the Erica Black Wavetable oscillator, which sounds amazing and is on the short list of things I'd get with more space.
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Eurorack? Good luck with it, Razmo! :-X . o O ( GAO )
May I suggest that you get external cases for ready to use storage of your modules that you do not want to have on front row on the controller? If I were to go modular I would go for cases such as the 4ms modular rows.
What I don't like about eurorack is that all the modulation modules are so expensive and that building up a complex DSI style voice would be extremely expensive.
Yes... modulation modules are important, and they are pricey... that is exactly why I chose the LIFEFORMS SV-1 synth-voice module... because it has 13 modules build in to 48HP... it has most of what the stand alone LIFEFORMS modules has to offer, except their functionality is maybe a bit downsized in the SV-1, but if you look closely at them, it's not that much...
I tried to create a setup from the stand alone modules too... ended up with 10 modules costing about 2000 Euros... four times the price of the SV-1... compared to the SV-1 it would be better, no doubt, but what about TWO SV-1's!? ... that gives you a completely different beast... double up on everything... 4 VCOs, 4 sub oscillators, 2 noise generators, 2 sample and hold generators, 2 4channel mixers, 2 state variabel filters, 2 VCAs, 4 Mult sections, two digital LFOs, 2 arpeggiators and two EGs... all of that for less than half of the 10 standalone modules... and on top of that it gives the nice option of plugging each one into it's own output (L/R) for extreme stereo FX, or using them both combined as one huge monophonic synth... also two SV-1 only take up 96HP.
This is why I intend on getting two of them as my first purchases, in addition to a single module more or two... it gives me most bang for the buck in my startup phase... and i will probably look at other synth-voice modules in the future to work as the "nerve center" in my setups.
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Another setup I'd like to try out in the future, is the complete "Fusion" series from Erica Synths... they all work with tubes, and they do not have that many patching points, but I'd REALLY like to play with these in the traditional subtractive synthesis fashion... but it'll be some time before I have the money for that insane purchase though...
Other modules I've seen that I find interesting are a small clone of the Electro Harmonix SmallStone phaser... I'm a fan of the old Jarre sound and that phaser is just so special in it's tone I have to have this one at some point... but other than that, the Eurorack market is so huge that I simply have no clue to what I want next... I need to read about the modules closely, and in most cases it's hard to figure out where a module may "fit in", or where it will work it's wonders... thus I will NOT be buying any modules just because they sound cool "stand alone"... I'll have to be able to see, where a certain module will fit into something I'd like to accomplish within a setup... if that makes any sense...
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I essence, what I'll do is sit with the two SV-1's, and just get started... then at some point when I want to do something, and find that I lack something to do what I want, I'll be out on "Modular Grid" to hunt for whatever can fix the problem... I think that is the wisest way to purchase new modules most of the time, especially when it comes to modulation modules, tool modules and other features that you simply run out of like VCA's, Mults etc... with other types of modules it may be a different matter, but in many cases I believe it'll be the best way for me.
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Other modules I've seen that I find interesting are a small clone of the Electro Harmonix SmallStone phaser... I'm a fan of the old Jarre sound and that phaser is just so special in it's tone I have to have this one at some point...
Look into Intellijel Polaris, too, which is a multimode filter with a phaser.
but other than that, the Eurorack market is so huge that I simply have no clue to what I want next...I need to read about the modules closely, and in most cases it's hard to figure out where a module may "fit in", or where it will work it's wonders... thus I will NOT be buying any modules just because they sound cool "stand alone"... I'll have to be able to see, where a certain module will fit into something I'd like to accomplish within a setup... if that makes any sense...
Sure, it makes sense, but don't be afraid to screw up. I got a low pass gate just out of curiosity and it changed my life. Expect to sort of grope in the dark for a while to find the things you love.
I essence, what I'll do is sit with the two SV-1's, and just get started...
Consider an SV-1 and a Morphagene for the same cash. You'll have way more fun. You've used SV-1s your whole life.
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Yeah, you may be right... I do see an advantage in having double of all in the SV-1, but on the other hand, many of my setups to come will not include two of these... there is no space left for anything else when they are in the case, and when I think of it, setting up stereo sounds when used in tandem will be rather tedious ... so it's probably best to get something else, and the Morphagene looks promising... guess I'll take a very close look at that module today... also, stereo stuff is better handled with digital FX in my DAW, and then maybe some sort of panner in a module to move the sound around etc...
I'll have the money for it tomorrow actually (Morphagene), as I've just sold my PCM-92 hardware FX unit...
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and the Morphagene looks promising... guess I'll take a very close look at that module today...
There's a topic on MuffWiggler devoted to Morphagene compositions (the thread is called "Morphagene Compositions"), and that's worth checking out. It's kind of hard to grok until you've tried it for a little while, but it has a huge palette. Phonogene, like DSM03, was something I tried and didn't like for a couple weeks, after which I couldn't see my synth without it.
setting up stereo sounds when used in tandem will be rather tedious ...
There are few absolutes in modular, so I'm not going to make a sweeping statement like "forget about a stereo signal path in 107HP," but I'd come pretty close to saying that. If I wanted a stereo signal path in 144HP, I probably could have it, but it would be at the expense of other things I'd rather do. Like you said... tedious. Probably best done in the DAW.
But, hey, Morphagene is stereo!
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What I don't like about eurorack is that all the modulation modules are so expensive and that building up a complex DSI style voice would be extremely expensive.
Yeah, I tried to price out an Evolver-style voice in ModularGrid, and it was way up there (around $6500USD), although there are better options now* than when I put that together.
I think the purpose of Eurorack can't be to rebuilt an already existing architecture like the Evolver. I mean if money isn't an issue that may be fine, but one could rather get an actual Evolver for what it does well and then build a Eurorack system around it with modules that do things an Evolver—or any other enclosed system for that matter—can't provide. I would even go so far to apply that to basically any system that builds upon the classic subtractive synthesis architecture. For that ingredient and workflow there are many desktop options that can be had for a lot less money than their Eurorack equivalents. So apart from the usual utilities modules that should guarantee the independent operation of a Eurorack system, I would rather look for the digital and tube-driven stuff that isn't and probably won't be available anywhere else in hardware format because it's too esoteric or niche. If it turns out that one ends up feeling more comfy with the Eurorack approach in general, one could still always convert completely after a while. But even then I guess it would be more productive to use Eurorack for what it actually is instead of using it to emulate already existing synth engines.
One thing that is I think essential before buying any module or synth, though—and that ties in again with the latter discussion—, is knowing what it will or should be used for. In other words: a goal-driven approach, even if one cannot always grasp the full functionality of a certain module immediately and exploration is always necessary.
@Razmo: I don't know whether you know of Bo Beats' YouTube channel, but before Christmas he did an episode about when to acquire new gear and why. One of the most important rules he mentioned seemed to me (I paraphrase), "don't buy anything new unless you're already pretty productive with what you have." I point this out because over particularly the past months you've gone through a massive gear-related upheaval. And while I can certainly relate to not always being 100% inspired, I always found that this was never related to what was actually available in my studio. Of course the gear you choose should be somewhat in accordance with your workflow preferences. And most certainly new gear will always provide you with that little extra kick for a couple of days. But in the end I'm also convinced that most of us could also create something we would enjoy with a cheap Casio keyboard, an amp, and some stomp boxes, or an iPad app for example—at least if we had no other option. What I'm trying to say, I guess, is try not to look for creativity or productivity in objects and don't force it. If inspiration is lacking in anything related to music making, try to get input from elsewhere, read or watch something, go to an exhibition, take walks, or talk to friends. You'll know when you're ready again. And if you have the urge to create something new and blocks occur, stay persistent with what's available. Solutions only occur throughout a steady process, none of your tools can come up with an answer—at least as long as you don't invest in some AI devices that can serve as your studio assistants. ;)
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What I don't like about eurorack is that all the modulation modules are so expensive and that building up a complex DSI style voice would be extremely expensive.
Yeah, I tried to price out an Evolver-style voice in ModularGrid, and it was way up there (around $6500USD), although there are better options now* than when I put that together.
I think the purpose of Eurorack can't be to rebuilt an already existing architecture like the Evolver. I mean if money isn't an issue that may be fine, but one could rather get an actual Evolver for what it does well and then build a Eurorack system around it with modules that do things an Evolver—or any other enclosed system for that matter—can't provide. I would even go so far to apply that to basically any system that builds upon the classic subtractive synthesis architecture. For that ingredient and workflow there are many desktop options that can be had for a lot less money than their Eurorack equivalents. So apart from the usual utilities modules that should guarantee the independent operation of a Eurorack system, I would rather look for the digital and tube-driven stuff that isn't and probably won't be available anywhere else in hardware format because it's too esoteric or niche. If it turns out that one ends up feeling more comfy with the Eurorack approach in general, one could still always convert completely after a while. But even then I guess it would be more productive to use Eurorack for what it actually is instead of using it to emulate already existing synth engines.
One thing that is I think essential before buying any module or synth, though—and that ties in again with the latter discussion—, is knowing what it will or should be used for. In other words: a goal-driven approach, even if one cannot always grasp the full functionality of a certain module immediately and exploration is always necessary.
@Razmo: I don't know whether you know of Bo Beats' YouTube channel, but before Christmas he did an episode about when to acquire new gear and why. One of the most important rules he mentioned seemed to me (I paraphrase), "don't buy anything new unless you're already pretty productive with what you have." I point this out because over particularly the past months you've gone through a massive gear-related upheaval. And while I can certainly relate to not always being 100% inspired, I always found that this was never related to what was actually available in my studio. Of course the gear you choose should be somewhat in accordance with your workflow preferences. And most certainly new gear will always provide you with that little extra kick for a couple of days. But in the end I'm also convinced that most of us could also create something we would enjoy with a cheap Casio keyboard, an amp, and some stomp boxes, or an iPad app for example—at least if we had no other option. What I'm trying to say, I guess, is try not to look for creativity or productivity in objects and don't force it. If inspiration is lacking in anything related to music making, try to get input from elsewhere, read or watch something, go to an exhibition, take walks, or talk to friends. You'll know when you're ready again. And if you have the urge to create something new and blocks occur, stay persistent with what's available. Solutions only occur throughout a steady process, none of your tools can come up with an answer—at least as long as you don't invest in some AI devices that can serve as your studio assistants. ;)
About your first section:
Both yes and no... it depend on who you are, and what you really want... I have decided that what I really wanted is in fact, a 100% hands on subtractive analog synth, and I cannot find the one I want in those small desktop semi-modular ones... I tried this already with both Hades, Erebus, Nyx, Abyss and Dark Energy... they are fine sounding, but the sounds I could get out of them was way too limited... and they took up way too much space for me to be able to sit comfortably with them really.
Thus I've decided that the only way I can get the functionality I need, is to build one myself using eurorack modules... that will give me what I need.. .a middle-sized monophonic 100% hands-on (one knob per function) analog synth... if I want something contained with the same amount of options, I'd have to go for the larger ones like Subsequent 37, Pro2 or the like, but then I'll be way into menu-hell and double function knobs... so there really ARE no alternative to the eurorack world in my case... and if you begin to include the few digital oscillator that I also want with hands on control and one knob per function, it states my point even further.
regarding what you wrote to me:
Yes, I've heard Jarre say something in the same way... that you should buy a synth, and then buy nothing more for the next 6 months... which is basically the same... but in my case (right now) it's rather simple... i have absolutely NOTHING in my studio right now, but my DAW and a pair of ADAM A3X monitors ;) ... so I'm going to get something, and I have decided what it will end up being... an analog synth in the traditional sense, like I wrote about above... I've decided that the LIFEFORMS SV-1 will be sent back to the dealer, and instead I'll place their single-module LIFEFORMS system in the KB37... it will work as my "analog nervecenter", and I intend on using this setup for a long time before I buy any more modules.... later I WILL buy extra modules, but they will be placed in a few MOOG 60HP cases, as add-ons to the KB37 system, and maintain modtly digital oscillators, analog filters and FX... and a few modulation modules as well... but I've not decided on anything on which modules it'll be yet.
Here is a picture of the setup... anyone may comment on it if you like, but I think I've made a wise choice in modules... I'll explain the choices later.
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And here is why I chose the modules in the above picture.
The goal is to make a single, selfcontained analog voice with as much flexibillity as possible, using just LIFEFORMS modules from Pittsburgh... I like the design, i like the sound, and that most modules has built in attenuators on their CV inputs, so that I'm free from having a lot of separate VCA's for that job. A few of the modules are duplicates (tools and ADSR) simply becaue I decided that I would find modulation modules that are to be ganged with the different audio modules they are supposed to control in most cases... thus a mod tools module for the oscillators, an ADSR for the VCF and VCA each and another mod tools specifically for the BBD delay module... everything is of course usable all over the place, but I like to have a system, where it's a basic analog subtractive routing layout... thus all modules have also been laid out in the order of general signal flow here.
1. LIFEFORMS Double Helix Oscillator module.
This module seems to be rather selfcontained... it even include an LFO which is handy, a noise source, a sub oscillator... but most importantly it has separate outs for all the waveforms which also contain sine waveform and blade waveform (PWM sawtooth basically)... in addition it has a handy routing matrix at the bottom which will be handy for live tweaks, and that is something I intend doing... live tweaking... so there are four modules in the picture you cannot see... two "hand modulation modules" and two "foot modulation modules" ;) ... also, the oscillators can go so low in frequency, that they are also useable as LFOs in case one needs that... it seems like a rather powerful oscillator module in itself, but I decided to gang it with a mod tools module as well beccause this module sports some additional logic functions, sample & hold plus a multi-tool EG/LFO/SLEW/EG FOLLOWER which will be handy for many pitch modulation purposes. Also the module includes a wavefolder with a Low Pass Gate for even more options in sound sources.
2. 2x2 mixer... pretty straightforward... it can work as two mixers with two inputs each, or as one 4 channel mixer... there is nothing special about this module, it's just an essential part of any subtractive synth... this is where the chosen oscillator signals are mixed, and in the future, this is where digital oscillators from additional cases could be plugged in.
3. State Variable Filter... a nice filter that gives me both LP, BP and HP outputs... better than a regular LP alone since it will give me more filtering options... I'm not sure if it's 12db or 24db but that does not really matter because I'll get external filter modules later if needed. I decided to gang it up with a dedicated ADSR module which is essential.
4. Dual VCA module... the usual subtractive module... essential as allways, and of course ganged up with it's own ADSR too... otherwise no special mumbojumbo on this one.
5. BBD analog delay module... this is the only module that is not normally included in a subtractive synth, but I like the idear of having this at the end... it can of course be used for longer delays (up to about 2 seconds) which it will probably also be used for, but also for creating shorter modulation FX or inserted in different places in the signal chain... it'll certainly add some flexibility to the system... it also need something to modulate it, so I ganged it with yet another mod tools module.
6. Sequencer module... this is the first module and I was in doubt if I should include it, but after some serious thought I decided it would add a lot of possibillities to the equation, even if I'm hooked up to my sequencer via MIDI anyway... it's nice to have this module clocked to the MIDI clock coming from the DAW, so that it can introduce rhythimcal contra-melodies to what is played on the daw... even if it's not gating any EGs it can still supply rhythmic stuff into other parameters in the system... it also have ratchet functionallity and a hell of a lot of other playing modes, so it's a nice part of the system i think.
That's it basically... I know it's not a huge million-possibillities setup like bigger systems, but that's the point... it needs to be a middle sized analog subtractive hands-on system, with the possibillity to add things in on the fly, and I think it will do this fine... the final price is somewhat around just below 2.000 Euros, and the system should be build to the last module in a month or two, with most modules (about 2/3) by the start of next month... untill then I'll be playing around with the SV-1 before sending it back to the dealer... I'd be very frustrated to go another month without the chance of playing something :D
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It looks like a nice system. The Pittsburgh Modular stuff is very well-made, and sounds great. I've got some random notes:
(1) Can you post your Modular Grid URL, or--better--put it in your signature? Modular Grid's screen shot functionality is low-res and everything's hard to read. I'd rather go right out to Modular Grid. Right now, you've got your rack set to "private," so it can't be seen by anyone but you.
(2) I suggest not bothering with the Moog 60HP cases. They're too small for the money, and they're really awkward when it comes to running power to them. You mentioned that your first plan involved RackBrute, and IMHO that's still a much better choice.
(3) Consider how you're going to handle CV to the Double Helix. The KB37 has only one pitch CV out, so you'll need a buffered multiple to accurately distribute the same voltage to both oscillators if you want them to play the same notes. Pittsburgh makes the Distro for this purpose. Distro also has a unity mixer, which you'll appreciate for transposition with the keyboard and sequencer. The question, of course, is always "what to replace?" For me, I'd drop one of the ASDRs for a Distro, because you've got a pair of Mod Tools.
(4) Once you get it, I'd be interested in your thoughts on Micro Sequence. It looks like an impressive package, and for a while I considered swapping my Moskwa (20HP) for a pair of these, before deciding that I loved Moskwa too much to do that.
(5) Analog Replicator is going to be the life of your party, I think.
(6) I understand the allure of the single-manufacturer system, but the only module choice issue I have here is the Pittsburgh Dual VCA. Tangle Quartet is four VCAs in 8HP, with the ability to add or remove each one from the mix independently. It costs only marginally more, but you'll eventually value more VCAs.
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https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/614237
As you can see from the link to modular grid, the order of the modules has been changed... unfortunately not into what I would most have liked, but KB37 has a limit of 25mm depth over the PSU, so I had to make a setup of the modules so that I'm sure they can actually be there... it's a bit unclear about the depth in that region because the faceplate of KB37 is angled, so closer to the top of a module, it can actually be deeper... so it depend on how each module is physically build if it can be there or not, especially because it matters where the A100 connector is located... so in this config, I've placed all the modulation modules out right with a one HP blind panel to separate them (probably the only good thing I've found yet for that 107th HP! :/ )... it seems that only modules with a single curcuit board can fit in that part of KB37... with two sandwiched curcuit boards most modules seem to be at least 35mm deep... but then again... is that INCLUDING the connector or just the boards? I cannot find any info on that anywhere... if it is including the connector, and it sits further against the top, then a double board module may be able to fit as someone I read had measured the distance to the PSU in the bottom to be 28mm...
I've also taken out an ADSR because you're right... I only need one for the Filter in most cases... the mod tools can handle a simpler ASR envelope for the VCA in most cases... I did not know that pitch stability was only insured by a buffered mult, but you're right... I WILL need one of those DISTRO modules, so it has been put in now... also I threw a passive mult in as well, but I'll probably search for something else for that spot since I really do not need it when I'll be using TipTop Audio cables that are stackable for this purpose...
And then the bitter part... yes... I'd like all modules in this KB37 to be from Pittsburgh LIFEFORMS series... it's almost giving me OCD feelings thinking about putting something else in there, and I foresee this being one of my greatest problems, even though it should not be... it gives me this feeling of a "bastard case" :D ... I'll have to think it over... but if I do not feel I need more than two VCA's in this system alone, I'll probably stick to LIFEFORMS modules... I do have a plan to make some bastard cases... i could always have extra VCA's in that one... and yes... I'll stick with the Brute solution... I already decided that since ;) I actually wondered why that RackBrute was 88HP when the standard is normally 84HP (the width of a normal rack system)... until I realized that it uses a 4HP power module...
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https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/614237 (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/614237)
As you can see from the link to modular grid, the order of the modules has been changed... unfortunately not into what I would most have liked, but KB37 has a limit of 25mm depth over the PSU, so I had to make a setup of the modules so that I'm sure they can actually be there... it's a bit unclear about the depth in that region because the faceplate of KB37 is angled, so closer to the top of a module, it can actually be deeper... so it depend on how each module is physically build if it can be there or not, especially because it matters where the A100 connector is located... so in this config, I've placed all the modulation modules out right with a one HP blind panel to separate them (probably the only good thing I've found yet for that 107th HP! :/ )... it seems that only modules with a single curcuit board can fit in that part of KB37... with two sandwiched curcuit boards most modules seem to be at least 35mm deep... but then again... is that INCLUDING the connector or just the boards? I cannot find any info on that anywhere... if it is including the connector, and it sits further against the top, then a double board module may be able to fit as someone I read had measured the distance to the PSU in the bottom to be 28mm...
I've also taken out an ADSR because you're right... I only need one for the Filter in most cases... the mod tools can handle a simpler ASR envelope for the VCA in most cases... I did not know that pitch stability was only insured by a buffered mult, but you're right... I WILL need one of those DISTRO modules, so it has been put in now... also I threw a passive mult in as well, but I'll probably search for something else for that spot since I really do not need it when I'll be using TipTop Audio cables that are stackable for this purpose...
And then the bitter part... yes... I'd like all modules in this KB37 to be from Pittsburgh LIFEFORMS series... it's almost giving me OCD feelings thinking about putting something else in there, and I foresee this being one of my greatest problems, even though it should not be... it gives me this feeling of a "bastard case" :D ... I'll have to think it over... but if I do not feel I need more than two VCA's in this system alone, I'll probably stick to LIFEFORMS modules... I do have a plan to make some bastard cases... i could always have extra VCA's in that one... and yes... I'll stick with the Brute solution... I already decided that since ;) I actually wondered why that RackBrute was 88HP when the standard is normally 84HP (the width of a normal rack system)... until I realized that it uses a 4HP power module...
I understand the CDO (that’s OCD in alphabetical order) kicking in, but the whole point of modular is designing your system to the functionality that you prefer. I tend to do the same thing when thinking about putting together a modular system — “which modules go together visually?”. I suppose if it really concerned you, you could get whatever modules you wanted, remove the faceplates, paint them white / black / purple / whatever, re-assemble, and voila.
Conceptually though, I like going with all Pittsburgh Modular stuff... very old school.
Here’s my attempt at putting together a 107hp system for the Waldorf KB37... https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/614318 (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/614318)
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I'll probably search for something else for that spot since I really do not need it when I'll be using TipTop Audio cables that are stackable for this purpose...
Thanks for the Modular Grid link.
Stackables are awesome for a small system, especially when your modulation destinations outnumber your sources.
If you can stand it, the 3HP Erica Pico line is the perfect way to fill out odd-HP gaps. Take a look at that line and see if anything's appealing. Bastard case, I know, but Pittsburgh doesn't make odd-HP modules.
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https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/614237 (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/614237)
As you can see from the link to modular grid, the order of the modules has been changed... unfortunately not into what I would most have liked, but KB37 has a limit of 25mm depth over the PSU, so I had to make a setup of the modules so that I'm sure they can actually be there... it's a bit unclear about the depth in that region because the faceplate of KB37 is angled, so closer to the top of a module, it can actually be deeper... so it depend on how each module is physically build if it can be there or not, especially because it matters where the A100 connector is located... so in this config, I've placed all the modulation modules out right with a one HP blind panel to separate them (probably the only good thing I've found yet for that 107th HP! :/ )... it seems that only modules with a single curcuit board can fit in that part of KB37... with two sandwiched curcuit boards most modules seem to be at least 35mm deep... but then again... is that INCLUDING the connector or just the boards? I cannot find any info on that anywhere... if it is including the connector, and it sits further against the top, then a double board module may be able to fit as someone I read had measured the distance to the PSU in the bottom to be 28mm...
I've also taken out an ADSR because you're right... I only need one for the Filter in most cases... the mod tools can handle a simpler ASR envelope for the VCA in most cases... I did not know that pitch stability was only insured by a buffered mult, but you're right... I WILL need one of those DISTRO modules, so it has been put in now... also I threw a passive mult in as well, but I'll probably search for something else for that spot since I really do not need it when I'll be using TipTop Audio cables that are stackable for this purpose...
And then the bitter part... yes... I'd like all modules in this KB37 to be from Pittsburgh LIFEFORMS series... it's almost giving me OCD feelings thinking about putting something else in there, and I foresee this being one of my greatest problems, even though it should not be... it gives me this feeling of a "bastard case" :D ... I'll have to think it over... but if I do not feel I need more than two VCA's in this system alone, I'll probably stick to LIFEFORMS modules... I do have a plan to make some bastard cases... i could always have extra VCA's in that one... and yes... I'll stick with the Brute solution... I already decided that since ;) I actually wondered why that RackBrute was 88HP when the standard is normally 84HP (the width of a normal rack system)... until I realized that it uses a 4HP power module...
I understand the CDO (that’s OCD in alphabetical order) kicking in, but the whole point of modular is designing your system to the functionality that you prefer. I tend to do the same thing when thinking about putting together a modular system — “which modules go together visually?”. I suppose if it really concerned you, you could get whatever modules you wanted, remove the faceplates, paint them white / black / purple / whatever, re-assemble, and voila.
Conceptually though, I like going with all Pittsburgh Modular stuff... very old school.
Here’s my attempt at putting together a 107hp system for the Waldorf KB37... https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/614318 (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/614318)
When I think of it, there is probably one more reason to the "OCD"... I have read about the Pittsburgh LIFEFORMS modules and watched all about them that I can, because my initial plan was to get the SV-1 ... and they are all reasonably easy to understand now... but the eurorack market is HUGE... there are so many modules, that I don't even dare think about reading about everything first, and watch videos of all to get a feeling for what they all do... it seems VERY confusing and overwhelming... that is another part of the "OCD" than just design and brand really...
I realized this looking at your 107HP setup actually... I have only read about ONE of those modules... the CLOUDS which I also have found interresting, though with a bit of too many hidden functions really for my 100% hands on approach...
So it's much easier getting to a final setup by just limiting yourself to the LIFEFORMS modules.... point is, that I need a sturdy setup... NOW!!!! ... and I do not have the time to read about all those modules, and when at the same time, the needs of specific modules is so blurred as it is for me right now, it might just end in a setup that I will have difficulty in connecting together and use fully... just see Chysn's comment earlier, that I ned that DISTRO module... I'm not fully into having an understanding of what modules need to go together... and that's the danger of modular for me right now... a modules full potential is determined by the modules you connect to it... thus, trying to take almost all modules from Pittsburgh, I put my faith in their hands, that they've put together a series that work well together... does this make sense? :)
Another reason is, by the way, that not all modules can be bought easily... some has to be build yourself, and others I'd need to get from oversees etc... so I've been looking at the available modules from the distributors closest to me here in europe... I use either Thomann, Gear4Music or Schneiders Laden... until now...
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I'll probably search for something else for that spot since I really do not need it when I'll be using TipTop Audio cables that are stackable for this purpose...
Thanks for the Modular Grid link.
Stackables are awesome for a small system, especially when your modulation destinations outnumber your sources.
If you can stand it, the 3HP Erica Pico line is the perfect way to fill out odd-HP gaps. Take a look at that line and see if anything's appealing. Bastard case, I know, but Pittsburgh doesn't make odd-HP modules.
Yes! ... in fact Erica Synths is one of the other manufacturers where I've done extensive reading and watching their videos... and I'm aware of their 3HP modules... one such thing might get in, if I can deviate from bastard case feeling :D
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When I think of it, there is probably one more reason to the "OCD"... I have read about the Pittsburgh LIFEFORMS modules and watched all about them that I can, because my initial plan was to get the SV-1 ... and they are all reasonably easy to understand now... but the eurorack market is HUGE... there are so many modules, that I don't even dare think about reading about everything first, and watch videos of all to get a feeling for what they all do... it seems VERY confusing and overwhelming... that is another part of the "OCD" than just design and brand really...
I think this is a great way to do it. Other than the Tangle Quartet, I've refrained from doing a bunch of "but you could have THIS!" because I realize that it's a huge amount to take in. In two years, you'll have a near-encyclopedic knowledge of modules, and you can hone your instrument to exactly what you want. For now, you've made a solid choice, and I think you'll enjoy it.
In other words, I haven't started a "How much time (in days) until Razmo sells his Eurorack stuff to focus exclusively on his puppetry?" poll.
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When I think of it, there is probably one more reason to the "OCD"... I have read about the Pittsburgh LIFEFORMS modules and watched all about them that I can, because my initial plan was to get the SV-1 ... and they are all reasonably easy to understand now... but the eurorack market is HUGE... there are so many modules, that I don't even dare think about reading about everything first, and watch videos of all to get a feeling for what they all do... it seems VERY confusing and overwhelming... that is another part of the "OCD" than just design and brand really...
I think this is a great way to do it. Other than the Tangle Quartet, I've refrained from doing a bunch of "but you could have THIS!" because I realize that it's a huge amount to take in. In two years, you'll have a near-encyclopedic knowledge of modules, and you can hone your instrument to exactly what you want. For now, you've made a solid choice, and I think you'll enjoy it.
In other words, I haven't started a "How much time (in days) until Razmo sells his Eurorack stuff to focus exclusively on his puppetry?" poll.
Hehe... i knew that comment would eventually arise :D ... fair enough, I have only myself to blame for it ;) ...
But I think you're right... I'll probably be a "Nutty Professor" in eurorack in a years time or two... provided I do not drop it totaly... which I hope I will not because then I've tried everything there is to try without finding something I'm satisfied with... do not want that to happen :)
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I think I've found a module that seems to be a no brainer... the Expert Sleepers - Disting mk4
That module seems to be able to do basically everything more or less... but it has two features that makes me want this module in my setup: mono & stereo sample playback, and a Wavetable oscillator that allow you to make your own Wavetables... I have had a sample player and wavetable VCO on the list sine I started this project, and to have those in the same module, only 4HP wide along with an enormous amount of other features is as I wrote: a no brainer really...
I do not know of other modules with more features in one... so if anyone know about one, don't hesitate to write it here :)
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I think I've found a module that seems to be a no brainer... the Expert Sleepers - Disting mk4
That module seems to be able to do basically everything more or less... but it has two features that makes me want this module in my setup: mono & stereo sample playback, and a Wavetable oscillator that allow you to make your own Wavetables... I have had a sample player and wavetable VCO on the list sine I started this project, and to have those in the same module, only 4HP wide along with an enormous amount of other features is as I wrote: a no brainer really...
I do not know of other modules with more features in one... so if anyone know about one, don't hesitate to write it here :)
You're right, it definitely does more than any other module. The Disting series has always looked like a real drag to use to me, but a lot of people love it. Or, at least, a lot of people put up with it. Getting away from that kind of thing is one of the reasons I got into eurorack to begin with.
If I were to get a "do everything" module, it would be Ornament and Crime, which looks somewhat friendlier--if less comprehensive--and its code is open-source. But that's not even on my expansion short list.
By the way, have you seen Mutable Instruments Plaits? It just came out this week, and looks like a fantastic digital oscillator.
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By the way, have you seen Mutable Instruments Plaits? It just came out this week, and looks like a fantastic digital oscillator.
Plaits looks indeed like a great all-in-one solution for a digital voice, so definitely something to consider for a cost-conscious setup. Here's a nice video by DivKid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zYwdcYECdg
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I think I've found a module that seems to be a no brainer... the Expert Sleepers - Disting mk4
That module seems to be able to do basically everything more or less... but it has two features that makes me want this module in my setup: mono & stereo sample playback, and a Wavetable oscillator that allow you to make your own Wavetables... I have had a sample player and wavetable VCO on the list sine I started this project, and to have those in the same module, only 4HP wide along with an enormous amount of other features is as I wrote: a no brainer really...
I do not know of other modules with more features in one... so if anyone know about one, don't hesitate to write it here :)
You're right, it definitely does more than any other module. The Disting series has always looked like a real drag to use to me, but a lot of people love it. Or, at least, a lot of people put up with it. Getting away from that kind of thing is one of the reasons I got into eurorack to begin with.
If I were to get a "do everything" module, it would be Ornament and Crime, which looks somewhat friendlier--if less comprehensive--and its code is open-source. But that's not even on my expansion short list.
By the way, have you seen Mutable Instruments Plaits? It just came out this week, and looks like a fantastic digital oscillator.
Disting is also open source, I looked at an almost 2 hour long video yesterday where he went in depth on explaing both the hardware and software side of it... it's even a PIC32 MCU they are using, so much of what he said rang a lot of bells with me since I've been programming their 8bit MCUs quite a bit...
I agree that it's a little bit convoluted, but honestly, when you see the layout it's not that bad... two input and two outputs at audiorates (75KHz sample rate) and a CV input (about 10Khz sample rate)... then a single control knob, and an encoder to choose the functions... so you do not have a lot of parameters to search thru menus for really... sure it would have been nice if it was a little wider, but then it would take up more space... it's a nice "extra" module to put in, if you have 4HP space left you do not know what to put into... it can do almost anything you suddenly feel you need... and it's not that expensive either...
I know that the Muteable Instruments modules are quite popular, and yes I've seen a few of them, but without going in depth with them... for some reason I feel that their sound is a bit too polished for me... almost too clean or soft-synth like in character... which has kept me from researching them further really. but i'll probably look into them more in depth when I reach the "digital oscillator" phase of my studio... right now I'm fully focused on getting the Pittsburgh modules gathered, so that my "analog synth" will be ready for use.
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Besides... after having read and watched a lot of info on modular (I've been visiting a site that has comprehensive info), it seems that people have different reasons for going into modular, and I do not think that I'm the "noodling" type of eurorack user... the thought of having a mixed rack with lots of weird modules and patching together to get all kinds of weird sounds out of it is NOT my goal...
My goal is more to get a hands on synth with a bit more flexibility than a small semi-modular desktop synth... in fact I believe I'm the type who want to make my own combined mid-sized synth voices... thus my goal is not to get another rack to find modules that will interact with the Pittsburgh I'm constructing right now... I'd rather just buy a 104 1row case, and start on a completely new synth after I finish the LIFEFORMS system... I'll probably want to do different synths this way.
The reason is that I'm still working best under limitations, and the confinements of a closed system like in a 104HP case is the way I like to do it... right now I have an all analog system coming up... my next one may be a hybrid of digital wavetable oscillators and analog VCF and VCO... the next may be with sample oscillators... another a stereo-signal flow kind of synth... I've got lots of ideers that is for sure. It also makes choosing the modules a lot easier since the modules should complement each other... I do not need all the possibilities available in a big chaotic system, i generally just want the usual VCO->VCF->VCA type configuration, maybe with a few twists... and most important; with all being hands on... i want to build those mid-sized "desktop" hybrid synths that noone is making...
I'd be able to take one such case into my studio, along with my basic LIFEFORMS system for a project, combining the two systems modules if I want to... but I like the ordered ideer of keeping them as "confined synths" in their cases... maybe it's a bit more expensive, since some module types will be used in more than one system, but that's ok... as long as I'm making music with the stuff...
if that makes sense... it does to me, and that is the most important :D
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First new module in my Pittsburgh synth should arrive later today... up to 2.6 seconds of analog delay... pretty nifty :)
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And there was me thinking as you had filtered down to a set of kit to do a particular task that this interesting and long lived threads days were numbered .
Then you went and got into modular.
To think I was worried!
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And there was me thinking as you had filtered down to a set of kit to do a particular task that this interesting and long lived threads days were numbered .
Then you went and got into modular.
To think I was worried!
I'm completely unpredictable... even to myself... it's a curse :D
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https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/614237
A link to the final KB37 setup... not much has changed, but the more I delve into the modular world, look at modules and think about what I need, I realize that maybe I do not need that much after all... Maybe I will be able to just settle with this system, as it basically covers mostly all that I need... if I feel a couple of exchange modules may become necessary, like oscillator modules, filter modules or FX modules, I'll just buy them, and exchange those modules in the setup directly...
The Pittsburgh modules are good sounding, and give the basic needs I've got for setting up a patchable standard OSC->VCF->VCA->FX synth... I think I got most covered... two LFOs, two ADSRs, two noise generators with S&H, a modulation section that can be both EG/Slew/LFO, some analog logic, two analog oscillators, one Low Pass Gate filter, a waveshaping section, a modulation routing matrix, a multimode state variable filter, a 4 channel mixer, 2 VCA's with offset and lastly an analog delay FX.
I should be capable of doing most analog tones with this alone and with good flexibility... as an extra (since there was 5HP left over), I decided on putting an "imposter" into my LIFEFORMS system... an Expert Sleepers - Disting mk4... this thing is a bit of a chameleon as it does more than 70 different things... it's digital, but it's really a handy tool if you find yourself missing a certain module in a specific situation.
Another reason for choosing this module is that it serves two very important functions:
1. Stereo sample playback. This is crucial for me to get my sounds recorded with my mobile recorder into the modular setup... I was looking at the TipTop Audio - ONE at some point, but it's only mono... the Disting mk4 can play back stereo samples from an SD card, and can even do more stuff with samples than the TipTop module.
2. Wavetable Oscillator. Yes, it can be used as a wavetable oscillator too, and you can even create your own wavetables and put them on the SD card... up to 100 such wavetables are supported... Very handy feature so that I may use some more advanced harmonicaly rich waveforms.
I believe it will be used mostly for the two last reasons, but I'm sure all the other (76) functions will come in handy... even if it's digital... but hey, it's because it's digital, that it does so many things :)
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Also... when recording into my DAW (one track at a time), much of the modulation will come from my hands... I want to perform some of the dynamics into the score live, as this is what makes modular stuff fun... but even if the modules could seem to maybe need more LFOs for serious modulations, this can be handled from my DAW... the KB37 has A LOT of CV outputs that can be automated from the DAW via envelopes for doing fades etc... Velocity, Aftertouch, Control X/Y/Z, Sensor, Pitchbend and Modulation wheel... all these has separate CV outputs and can be routed to any CV input in the modules for modulation...
so i do not think I'll miss anything really... time will tell...
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It's nice, you'll be able to do a lot with that.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with the Double Helix. It's got a lot of innovative features that you don't usually see on a complex oscillator, like the extra LFO, the low pass gate, and PWM. And the modulation routing is really flexible. If I didn't already have a complex oscillator, it would be a candidate for me.
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Ohh... and by the way... I've got a single MIDi I/O on my RME AIO soundcard which will be used for a single polyphonic analog synth at some point because I am almost certain that at some point I will want to do some pads live... but I've promised myself to NEVER AGAIN get a synth which is menu driven... it MUST be a 100% hands on analog synth, where every parameter is on the front panel... currently there are only ONE such synth available that I can find, and that is the Vermona Perfourmer, so it'll most likely be that one when the time comes...
If I do not get a polyphonic synth, I'll be pressed to record every note of a chord one by one, and that is not very intuitive...
also... no memory... I do not want to be lazy anymore... every sound from scratch...
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If I do not get a polyphonic synth, I'll be pressed to record every note of a chord one by one, and that is not very intuitive...
I don't know if this is your thing, but I use MuseScore2 to explode chords into monophonic parts. It's a ridiculously easy way to turn a monosynth into a polysynth. But first you need to be composing with notation software. I start with MuseScore, export to a MIDI file, drag that into Ableton, and then I've got individual tracks. I'm putting the finishing touches on the modular part of the workflow, but I've currently got three MIDI-to-CV systems to choose from (Little Phatty, MicroBrute, QuNexus).
But... Prophet 6 isn't knob-per-functiony enough for you?
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If I do not get a polyphonic synth, I'll be pressed to record every note of a chord one by one, and that is not very intuitive...
I don't know if this is your thing, but I use MuseScore2 to explode chords into monophonic parts. It's a ridiculously easy way to turn a monosynth into a polysynth. But first you need to be composing with notation software. I start with MuseScore, export to a MIDI file, drag that into Ableton, and then I've got individual tracks. I'm putting the finishing touches on the modular part of the workflow, but I've currently got three MIDI-to-CV systems to choose from (Little Phatty, MicroBrute, QuNexus).
But... Prophet 6 isn't knob-per-functiony enough for you?
That won't really cut it, as my way of working with chords are intuitive and live playing... I need to be able to play on top of what I've allready recorded, to find what I think works, so that is really not an option, though it may be nice for working chords into a composition in another creative way... i just do not like the ideer of having to score something on a computer first, and not with notation... i cannot write using notation so it's out of the question :)
The Prophet 6 is my "number two" solution... but I honestly think it's too expensive for what it does, and it has memory which I'd like to avoid... the reason for the Vermona Perfourmer is that it's 100% analog without memory, and for some reason I like the ideer that it has every voice configurable... I'm sure both would do the job, but the Vermona intrigues me more to be honest :)
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The Prophet 6 is my "number two" solution... but I honestly think it's too expensive for what it does, and it has memory which I'd like to avoid... the reason for the Vermona Perfourmer is that it's 100% analog without memory, and for some reason I like the ideer that it has every voice configurable... I'm sure both would do the job, but the Vermona intrigues me more to be honest :)
Although it sounds like you're mostly set on the Perfourmer, here's another plea for the Prophet-6, not necessarily to persuade you, but just to keep it in mind as another possible option. I'm bringing it up because for actual recordings I very much stick to what you'd like to do, i.e. lots of live tweakings instead of automations and strict preset use. That's why I'd be just as happy if the Prophet-6 had only 40 preset locations, just like the original. In my experience it became one of the fastest synths to interact with, which is what interests me most when working with it. And yes, it's pretty basic as far as the number of parameters go, but you can still tweak a lot of things in realtime that can't be automated within the internal mod matrix, like for example the LFO modulation rate or amount settings in the PolyMod section (one can even enhance the paramater control externally via NRPN automation, which is of course not what you wanna do). And don't let the number of available parameters fool you—the Prophet-6 can be very flexible sonically. It does way more than 80s brasses, strings, and synth clavinets. And you have the alternative tuning options, which can trigger some interesting ideas.
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The Prophet 6 is my "number two" solution... but I honestly think it's too expensive for what it does, and it has memory which I'd like to avoid... the reason for the Vermona Perfourmer is that it's 100% analog without memory, and for some reason I like the ideer that it has every voice configurable... I'm sure both would do the job, but the Vermona intrigues me more to be honest :)
Although it sounds like you're mostly set on the Perfourmer, here's another plea for the Prophet-6, not necessarily to persuade you, but just to keep it in mind as another possible option. I'm bringing it up because for actual recordings I very much stick to what you'd like to do, i.e. lots of live tweakings instead of automations and strict preset use. That's why I'd be just as happy if the Prophet-6 had only 40 preset locations, just like the original. In my experience it became one of the fastest synths to interact with, which is what interests me most when working with it. And yes, it's pretty basic as far as the number of parameters go, but you can still tweak a lot of things in realtime that can't be automated within the internal mod matrix, like for example the LFO modulation rate or amount settings in the PolyMod section (one can even enhance the paramater control externally via NRPN automation, which is of course not what you wanna do). And don't let the number of available parameters fool you—the Prophet-6 can be very flexible sonically. It does way more than 80s brasses, strings, and synth clavinets. And you have the alternative tuning options, which can trigger some interesting ideas.
I definitely have not put the P6 down yet... I know it's a one knob per function machine, and that it has a mode where it simply takes over the knobs positions so it behave like a 100% analog synth in that respect... I'm not in doubt that the P6 will deliver what I need in terms of that... it can do a lot more than a Perfourmer (which is basically just four monosynths with the most essential controls and features)... also the two extra voices is tempting.
What is most likely what makes the difference in my decision is the price really... it's almost double the price of a Vermona Perfourmer (without the modular option, which I might choose, which will let the price difference be a bit smaller)... The p6 does have one advantage though (which is also a limitation seen from another angle), that all 6 voices are set with the same controls... on the perfourmer you are required to change each and every single voice when you edit a sound, unless you want them to be different (which is the advantage)...
So... it's a hard choice, it really is, because both has something the other do not... what it all comes down to is not the advantages and disadvantages because I'd be able to use both... the question is which one I'd resonate best with, and I'm a little afraid that the P6 and it's presets and MIDI control will only end up with me starting to do an editor again, and be lazy and browse the memories when i need a pad... that is what keeps it at number two :) if that make any sense?
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So... it's a hard choice, it really is, because both has something the other do not... what it all comes down to is not the advantages and disadvantages because I'd be able to use both... the question is which one I'd resonate best with, and I'm a little afraid that the P6 and it's presets and MIDI control will only end up with me starting to do an editor again, and be lazy and browse the memories when i need a pad... that is what keeps it at number two :) if that make any sense?
Makes perfect sense. Maybe I have an easier time just ignoring certain features, but I do get how every additional feature—be it MIDI-, preset-, or editor-related—can be tempting. You're not the only one thinking about going fully non-preset, etc. ;)
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So... it's a hard choice, it really is, because both has something the other do not... what it all comes down to is not the advantages and disadvantages because I'd be able to use both... the question is which one I'd resonate best with, and I'm a little afraid that the P6 and it's presets and MIDI control will only end up with me starting to do an editor again, and be lazy and browse the memories when i need a pad... that is what keeps it at number two :) if that make any sense?
Makes perfect sense. Maybe I have an easier time just ignoring certain features, but I do get how every additional feature—be it MIDI-, preset-, or editor-related—can be tempting. You're not the only one thinking about going fully non-preset, etc. ;)
Thats the reason exactly ... I have a hard time looking away from the extra features if i know they are there... this is where the OCD like thoughts come in, and I'm actually afraid that I DO have some sort of OCD regarding this... I've gone totaly 100% hands on now, with no memory... and if I introduce a synth which defies this principle, I start getting this nagging feeling... just putting different manufacturer modules together makes me itch... I know it's ridiculous, but it's an urge inside me to have this extreme sense of "order" ... I'm trying hard to convince myself that it's STUPID... but the feeling is just there anyway... i cannot get rid of it... this is why the perfourmer does NOT produce these thoughts... it's 100% hands on, no memory, and it fits nicely into my only MIDI I/O left... things "add up" in the end... also something I've had to deal with for countless years... all those times I've felt "not ready" just because there is a SINGLE input in my mixer that is unused... it's a curse really to feel this way... it's become so much a part of my "music identity" that I could call it a "disorder" of sorts... it's both OCD like, and Autistic in nature... but I'm diagnosed with "high functioning autism", so it makes sense... and I just have to control myself and disciplinate myself harder than others... obviously...
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One thing I would say is make some some room for multiples, attenuators, offset attenuators and VCAs.
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One thing I would say is make some some room for multiples, attenuators, offset attenuators and VCAs.
The Lifeforms VCAs are both attenuators, VCAs and have offset knobs as well... and I've already included the Distro module which has two sections of buffered multiples (1->3) and a unity gain mixer with multiple option depending on how you use it... It also has a 2HP passive Multiples module... i think (hope) this is enough... I may put in a few more VCA's if I find out that I need it.
But honestly... this is a bit hard to decide on when you're new to modular ... i have to spend some time figuring out what I lack simply by working with it... but I do know about the VCA/Multiple importance... I've read it in many places.
Anyway... I have space on each side of my KB37 to place some 48HP Doepfer cases on top of each other, so I'll not run out of space for needed modules I think... I would be able to stack 4-6 of these on each side if i wanted to, though I don't think I'll ever need that much modular space.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/LF-SV-1.mp3
A small quick demo I made of the LIFEFORMS SV-1 Variable State Filter in action... recorded the same sequence twice, and panned them -75%/+75% ... I really like this filter, mainly because resonance does not make the volume drop at all... man, I've missed this raw analog sound! :)
But I've decided to get other filters of different varieties since the filter sound will be crucial to the genre I'll be doing in my projects... I want Moog, Arp, SEM, Polyvoks, 303, SSM, Juno, Wasp, CEM and CS80 filters at some point...
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But I've decided to get other filters of different varieties since the filter sound will be crucial to the genre I'll be doing in my projects... I want Moog, Arp, SEM, Polyvoks, 303, SSM, Juno, Wasp, CEM and CS80 filters at some point...
The demo sounds good!
As for the array of filters you want, I'll share some info about the filters I've personally owned:
- Studio Electronics Boomstar 4075 is their ARP 2600 (most-Moog-ripoff) filter. I used to have one of these, and would highly recommend it. Mine left my system because I had too many filters, and I didn't like it as much as...
- The Doepfer A-106-5 SEM is another filter I used to have. I really liked it, but as I moved away from filters and toward wave-shaping, I wanted a 24dB/oct filter in its place, which led to...
- Mutable Instruments Ripples, which is more or less a Roland SH/Jupiter filter, with band-pass, 12dB, and 24dB outputs, and an integrated VCA. This is the one I still have today, and its size, flexibility, and sound is hard to beat. But also...
- Dave Smith DSM01 can't be overlooked if you need a CEM filter. Since I wanted to get down to only one "traditional" filter, I picked the Ripples because of the bandpass output, which is (for me) an essential thing to put before a low pass gate. But if you've got the room for it, it should be on the short list
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The forum seems to have lost several days of data. Did you get your stuff yet?
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The forum seems to have lost several days of data. Did you get your stuff yet?
Nope... I'm walking around in cirkles like a lion in a cage, waiting for it to arrive... should be here wednesday, if I'm lucky, tomorrow :) ...
I decided to go for some voice-modules, as I want to see 2-3 voice modules as "layers" in a monophonic synth to build up patches... they give me most bang for the buck here to begin with... i also intend to stay by my original plan, which was to only use for a project what can be put into the KB37... So I'll get other synth voices to swap in the future, and also other modules with a single purpose to fill out the space of what is left in the KB37... these will most likely be FX like units and maybe something to modulate stuff in the voice modules... I know I should NOT start to plan something big in another case because I'll only end up waiting again... I can't control it :)
So I bought a buffered multiple from 4ms, that is 3HP wide, intentionally because that will eliminate that extra 1HP that is always left over in the KB37's 107HP... I should be covered well with that module, and it will always be included in any setup anyway.
Besides that, I bought a Tonestar 2600... It has lots of functionality in just 32HP, and it sounds really good... Allways wanted an ARP like filter, and this has "that sound".... also it's ability to patch "outs to outs" gives it a lot more potential than is obvious.
But the Tonestar is only one oscillator, which means no FM, no Sync etc... I want that option so I originally decided to get another oscillator, but then I spotted the cheap MFB Nanozwerg Pro voice module, and this has all I need... FM, Sync and even a State Variable Filter... in addition to a few other modulation sources including sample & hold which the Tonestar do not have... so I bought this as well...
And this is what I'll be starting out with... I'm not certain of the next purchases really, except that I want a Doepfer mini stereo mixer module which has pan functionality, which will be handy when using the synth voices as layers, and give me some panning options of the "layers".... another module I know I'd want is a voltage controlled crossfader to morph between different audio signals... I'm also on the lookout for the Souseki Phaser (clone of the Smallstone phaser pedal)...
I've been looking about for other stuff in the past that I'd like to get... the Make Noise Endorphines, but also the Mutable Instruments synth voice looks interesting for ambient stuff (Elements).
But all these things... I don't need them to get started, so they'll just "drip in" as I have the funds to buy them, adding to future projects etc.
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Mutable Instruments just posted (https://twitter.com/mutable_instrum/status/975834611812065280) this video in case you wanted to be tempted in that direction:
https://youtu.be/0bBixVuOh7M
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Mutable Instruments just posted (https://twitter.com/mutable_instrum/status/975834611812065280) this video in case you wanted to be tempted in that direction:
https://youtu.be/0bBixVuOh7M
I generally like the MI modules, when it comes to digital sound sources... but I also find that they sound maybe a bit too clean and polished... but this is a typical sound of digital sound sources of today because they have so high bit depth, sample rate and is digitally polished to perfection... I tend to prefer older style digital sound sources better, from the 90's because the converters are in lower bit depth and more "gritty" to them... I do not know if it's just placebo, because you should be able to emulate this even with new DACs...
So yes, I may get something MI at one point, but not to replace analog stuff... only for getting what analog cannot do. The choices are limited thouogh since I've decided to only use synth-voice modules, ... thus the only one that has my attention at the moment is Elements really... it is rather spectacular though.
In fact I ended up with the ideer, that I'll be using two of the same synth-voice module, in combi with a digital FX processor... nothing more... the first setup will be of two Tonestar 2600, connected to a TipTop Audio Z-DSP using a variety of FX algorithms, especially the ValhallaDSP ones.
I've chosen this solution because I want to disconnect myself from the DAW as much as possible... that goes for the FX as well... The only thing my DAW will be doing is playing the sequence of a track via MIDI, while I'm recording the track from start to finish, tweaking live on the knobs when recording... one huge recording take... this will be how it goes for each and every track... a little bit of post processing may be done if necessary like EQ and stuff, but I want this at a minimum.
This is why the FX goes into the modular... it allow me to tweak the FX live on the Z-DSP while recording... same with the Tonestars, while still being able to make automated changes to parameters from the MIDI track using the KB37 build in CV converter.
The reason for two of the same synth-voice is simple... stereo processing in a more advanced format than just simple panning of a mono signal... with each module connected to it's own output (L/R) a lot of strange panning options is available.
I may change the FX module og synth-voice modules in the future depending on the projekt at hand, but it will always be a 2-synthvoice + FX module setup... I feel (after toying with the ideers for a while) that extreme modular setups is just not for me... too many "loose ends", too uge and uncomprehensive... just want to keep it simple and constrained.
Probably does not make much sense, but it does to me :D
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The great thing about modular is that if you have the patience (and, of course, money), you can have whatever you want, and everybody else can just $%&* off. So, there's not a lot of judgment. I can see a lot of benefits of going with single-voice modules. One of my issues is that I'm often solving a jigsaw puzzle; a change in one part of the system has implications downstream or upstream that require (or strongly imply) the presence or absence of other modules.
For example, I swapped out Moskwa for Tetrapad. Tetrapad made µScale worse (because Tetrapad sends quantized pitch), so I'm swapping out µScale for Tirana II, to sort of fill the sequencing gap left by Moskwa, but then I'm left with a minor ergonomics puzzle. Some potential changes affect things more deeply, so I avoid them. I avoid changes in general, unless they're very compelling, as was Tetrapad. The jigsaw puzzle is a challenge, but it's one that I enjoy.
With single-voice modules, you don't have to worry about that kind of stuff, if worrying about that stuff isn't your bag. No need to think about voltage ranges (yay, Tirana II has a 10V mode for Phonogene's sound-on-sound CV!) or gate voltage (boo, Moskwa's gate is 4.7V, which isn't enough to sync ModBox!). If you want a distraction-free experience, you could do a lot worse.
Enjoy!
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That is exactly the point... And the smaller the system, the more sacrifices you are forced to make... When I try to create a setup, I try to find modules that will either create a standard synth architecture, like i did with my first Pittsburgh setup, and it was good for that and allowed good flexibility... But then I started thinking about wanting other filters and soon there were no space left... I was allways forgetting, that it would be impossible to create a system that small that would give me a little of everything... The synth voice approach restrict what I can do, but it also makes me think more and harder on how to create sounds.... The three layer approach gives me a lot to work with in a little space...
I just got the Tonestar 2600 and the Nanozwerg Pro... Later is going back, it cannot win a comparison with the Tonestar... That ARP filter and that oscillator is the best I've had! ... And that shitty little module is actually perfect for what I want...i love this module so much, I want two more of them for the two remaining layers... I'll buy the 8106 Roland model in a weeks time... And then I hope SE will do more of these... I'd like a SEM version too...
Point is... Eurorack really is not my thing in it's intended usage... I just want a very special standard synth with three oscillators, filters and VCAs, with 100% hands on knobs and switches... If a standalone synth like this was available, it would have done it... And the only one that gets close, is the Perfourmer... And I will buy that as a complement synth later for doing poly duties, getting the one that can interface to modular stuff... Then I will not buy more, unless some very special synth voice modules 32HP in length pop up...
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https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/614237
I've had the TONESTAR 2600 for some time now, experimenting with it, to see how many tones you can get out of it, and what it's weaknesses are. I find this little synth-voice module very well sounding and rather capable tonewise for a lot of sounds... it's weakest spots is that it does not have two oscillators, and that the one it has, has no input for waveform sync... on the other hand it can audio rate modulate any input, be it the VCO frequency, Filter Frequency or the VCA... even the LFO Depth and Rate can be modulated, also the ADSR can be modulated... every mod input has it's own attenuator, so you don't really need any VCA externally to control the amount of modulation going into the modulation inputs... the TONESTAR 2600 is basically very much self contained in all aspects... I would dare to call this module perfect actually, despite it's few shortcomings.
So to circumvent those shortcomings, I've decided to get another TONESTAR2600 into the equation of my small KB37 setup... this alone gives me several nice options when combining the two in different routings. The two can be mixed together and work as two standalone "layers", or they can be connected to and from each other in a lot of different ways... they can also be put in parallel so that each drive a side in the stereo perspective (L/R) for really wide sounds or strange panning permutations when modulated for it.
I decided, that having three of these for layering was not really the way to go, mainly because the KB37 is capable of sending only one gate and two CVs (for duophonic playing), so having two voices seemed most logical, and in most layer patching you would normally just use one voice for the transient build, and the other for the sustained tone... so two "voices" is actually enough.
So I thought hard about what to include in the rest of the HP space I had left which was more than one third actually. I tried to think about what I really wanted to achieve in my music, and what features those genres would benefit from... I'm going to make mainly Ambient, Berlin School and electronic music in general, so I found that being able to make slow and evolving/morphing textures would be alfa omega. To do this I'd need some way to introduce slow moving CV signals to different modulation inputs, and for this there is no better way than using the KB37s four control CV outputs (Control X, Y and Z + Sensor)... I can control these outputs very precisely from my DAW which is my main sequencer, creating all sorts of CV signals that rise and fall etc... so no need to invest in a lot of modulation modules just for this... the DAW handles it a lot better, and is visually and timing wise a lot better.
So what to buy!? ... I quickly saw a use for a separate analog filter for more than one reason. The first is that the TONESTAR 2600 only has a lowpass filter to work with, and I will most certainly need both hipass and bandpass too, plus 12db versions... so a multimode filter is essential... this is why I included the Pittsburgh Binary Filter which is a State Variable Filter with all modes and 12db slope... This filter is meant as a shaper of the mixed signal of the two TONESTAR modules... this is a huge advantage when I need to do very slow fade-ins and outs of whatever the two voices are playing... it can be seen as a kind of "master filter", and I decided to pair it up with it's own separate ADSR as well. This means that I can make patches where I control the cutoff manually for performance, but also trigger the envelope.
But why the need to trigger a third filter, when the two voices have their own ADSR and ASR envelopes? ... this is where another ideer I got comes in:
The basic waveforms of an analog voice can sound rather static, even when modulated thru a VCF and VCA... with ambient stuff I need evolving soundscapes that shift around, so I thought that since the TONESTAR allows you to set the VCA into drone mode, I could see the TONESTAR as sort of like a very advanced oscillator too... by modulating it's filter frequency with it's oscillator at audio frequencies (high resonance to create a sine to modulate), plus the weird "outs to outs modulation" that the TONESTAR also performs, you are actually able to create extremely complex waveforms, especially when you take all the other sound sculpting features it has into the modulation (EGs and LFO plus drive and feedback)... this will result in some moving and complex timbres that just drone... from both TONESTAR modules, and they could even be intertwined between each other for even stranger outputs. With these two "oscillators" mixed, and going into the multimode filter for the final shaping you could create lots of moving sounds that even change drastically on each trigger depending on the modulations going on in the TONESTARs... this can be cool for constant changing percussion or weird FX sounds modulated manually by the multimode filter.
But to get the two voices mixed, I needed some sort of mixer... I ended up including a LIFEFORMS Mod Tools module for this... it has a simple but effective two channel unity mixer, which is exactly what I needed for this, and this mixer even allow for a rectified output as well between the two voices... The Mod Tolls module gives a lot of other useful stuff like a very much needed Sample & Hold generator with noise output to top it, and an LFO to generate the hold time... I need this feature to create randomness on the modulation inputs of the two TONESTAR modules... Also there is a modulation section more that will give me both an EG, LFO, Oscillator, Slew generator and Envelope follower... all nice additions to induce more havoc into the modulations. A very nice module to add... but I soon saw the need to have two of these, so that I could assign one for each TONESTAR module separately... thus there are two of them in the setup now. With the top section of these modules capable of functioning also as oscillators they will serve well as audio rate modulators of the TONESTAR modules.
Finally... I decided to include a LIFEFORMS sequencer module as the final module... the reason is that it can be clocked via the KB37's clock/reset outputs and thus play in sync with my DAW. The DAW will handle the sequencing of melodies in both mono and duo modes, so this is not where the sequencer module is meant to do it's duties... but sometimes it's nice to let the DAW only play one of the TONESTARs, and then have the other one do another melodyline... this is not possible via duophonic playing since it only has one gate signal... this can be fixed with the addition of the sequencer module.
But the sequencer can and will be used for many other things as well... like controlling modulation inputs of other parameters than just pitch... the multimode filter is a likely candidate, but a lot of other options are possible.
This whole setup I just explained is of course just the more "hardwired" approach... Semi-Modular approach of course... I could completely use all modules in other strange ways... like route the outs of a TONESTARs oscillator section into the multimode filter, and then route that back into the same TONESTAR modules VCA input, simply to replace the internal filter with a multimode one if I wanted that... loads of possibilities I think, in this small eurorack system... I feel that it's "complete" now... the next TONESTAR will be bought real soon... and in time I'll get two of the other TONESTAR version with the Roland filter to mix and match from project to project... other synth voice modules that are 32HP wide could also be likely candidates, but it's not on my list specifically... I like the TONESTAR line a lot, and hope more will come in the same format... 303 filter, SE80 filter, Moog filter etc... just keep 'em coming!!! :D
Well... that was todays update rant... if you made it here, congratulations, you've won the right to hear my experimentations as they develop in the future ;)
Feel free to comment on the setup :)
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Looks like a solid setup.
Can the KB37's duophonic outputs be set to a monophonic mode? If so, then you can ditch the buffered mult. Otherwise, you need to keep it.
every mod input has it's own attenuator, so you don't really need any VCA externally to control the amount of modulation going into the modulation inputs...
Having attenuator knobs everywhere is great. That plays a big part in the decisions I made (see Sputnik Dual Oscillator, Ripples, Phonogene). But I don't think it really replaces VCAs because you run out of hands. You'll really miss them if you want complex, slowly-evolving textures.
But you're definitely off to a good start, so try that stuff and see where it takes you.
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Looks like a solid setup.
Can the KB37's duophonic outputs be set to a monophonic mode? If so, then you can ditch the buffered mult. Otherwise, you need to keep it.
every mod input has it's own attenuator, so you don't really need any VCA externally to control the amount of modulation going into the modulation inputs...
Having attenuator knobs everywhere is great. That plays a big part in the decisions I made (see Sputnik Dual Oscillator, Ripples, Phonogene). But I don't think it really replaces VCAs because you run out of hands. You'll really miss them if you want complex, slowly-evolving textures.
But you're definitely off to a good start, so try that stuff and see where it takes you.
No... it works rather basically really... it just allocate the second pitch CV to the Control X output... it does seem to work in mono though when only pressing a single key down, both pitch CVs are set the same... so in theory I could skip the buffered mult... but it serves no purpose to remove it really... also because the state variable filter needs a pitch CV input if it is to track the keyboard... but the filter is not self resonant so it's probably not as crucial... but it would still need the pitch CV, and if I start to split one of the CV outputs, I'd get impedance trouble for one of the Tonestars... Also, my multiple serves two functions... stable pitch of course, but also it's 3HP wide and thus eliminate the 1HP leftover I almost always get as most modules are not an uneven number in HP... I only have ONE 3HP module I'd like to swap it for... a small tube-distortion module I saw called "Ivan"... I'll probably just stick to the multiple module... and see if it can be omitted at some point...
About the VCA's ... I don't see where I would need them to be honest... I know their value, but when all inputs have attenuators on the TONESTARs and other input sockets, where would I need them? ... the slowly moving stuff I'll do via automate lanes in my DAW, sending MIDI CC's to the KB37 which then converts them to CV on the four output CV patchpoints called Control X, Y and Z plus the Sensor input... these automation lanes I can configure with both straight lines and curved ones to perfectly fit the sequence measures etc... This is much more useful for me to do filter sweeps, morphs, volume sweeps and other stuff... I totaly understand what you're saying, but you may have missed that I have 4 "VCA's" in the DAW that act as "hands" :) ... I've REALLY thought this setup out carefully... but you know... sometimes something slips, and you miss something, so thanks for the warning :)
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Yeah, clearly you've thought it through well, and it looks great.
If Studio Electronics released a semi-modular synth of the same size with (for example) their SEM, would you go one 2600 and one SEM?
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Yeah, clearly you've thought it through well, and it looks great.
If Studio Electronics released a semi-modular synth of the same size with (for example) their SEM, would you go one 2600 and one SEM?
I assume you mean another tonestar instead of one of the two 2600s? ... I'd probably get any other Tonestar module that comes out because the different filters is an important thing to me in the sounds I want to make in my projects, especially as I have decided not to use anything digital besides FX and EQ... I actually planned on buying a 8105 Roland filter Tonestar, and I will get one... Maybe this will also be the next one i buy, mainly because I want the different filter flavours... And particular its hipassfilter is of interrest when doing snare and hihat sounds... But i also want two of the same type at some point, for true stereo applications... But I'd certainly want other filter flavours... Also, it could be other synth modules, but as the LIFEFORMS part of the synth will be stationary, it has to be one or two synth modules that fit max 64HP.
I have thought about combining a single semi modular desktop synth too, as i have space for a single one at any given time as I have a single MIDI I/O left... Most synth voices created comes in desktop versions, so if I want diversity I have to considder this option... The Pittsburgh Microvolt 3900 look interresting.
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After some long and hard thinking about the modular system, I decided that I would get the second TONESTAR 2600 module today. Two such modules working as "oscillators" should be enough, so now I need to figure out exactly what else I will need in the rest of the space (40HP) that will complement these two the best in my case.
I will not need any kind of stereo processing FX as this will be the DAWs duty to handle... most flexible solution.
I know that one thing that will be dearly missing in this setup is some randomness for FX and other stuff, so I went on the hunt for a dedicated random module and found the Steady State Fate - URA (Ultra Random Analog) module which is stuffed with different and crazy randomness... this module is a bit of a "all in one randomness" module which suits me perfectly... I almost decided on the Make Noise Wogglebug which is also pretty cool, but the SSF module won the day, mainly because it seems more feature packed, and I like the design a lot better than Make Noise stuff... honestly I hate the Make Noise design... the faceplates are filled with blinking strange lights, weird symbolic drawings, arrows going in all directions and unreadable text in general... no I REALLY do not like their design :/
About the TONESTAR number two, I decided to get the same one as I already got... i was really in doubt if I should get the other one with the Roland filter because it has an extra hipass filter and different filter tone, but I'd rather get two of these to swap out for different projects in the future.
The reason I want the same one is that I intend on routing them to left/right outputs for some serious stereo processing... it opens up a lot of stereo potential using them this way... panning, wide stereo perspectives and other crazy swirly stereo applications when starting to modulate the two modules independently... and if I want to, I can also use them in series, even without the need of another audio mixer since the output of one TONESTAR can be mixed directly into the other, either pre or post filter, and even pre or post the VCA as well, allowing for some cool routing options. At the same time, the KB37 allow me to use them in paraphonic mode if I want to... I could omit the buffered multiple I've got, but I'll keep it in mainly because the URA module can also function as a trackable squarewave oscillator, so it needs the 1V/O connection in some cases.
And this is why I chose the URA module:
First off, it has two build in analog noise sources that it uses for it's two sample & hold circuits. This frees up the two noise sources on the TONESTAR modules for sound generation instead of using these in a barebone S&H circuit. Both S&H units can take in external source material though. One of the S&H engines has a slew generator as well for smoothing out the random value.
Having two different random values are perfect with the two TONESTARs because it will allow for cool stereo modulation, but the URA even has a third random output derived from toggling between sampling the first and second S&H output... in addition it has two more types of random generation based on the two S&H engines... one of these (a vactrol based smoothing random generator) takes the input of a random gate/trigger output (yes it also has a random gate/trigger function) and creates random triangle based control voltages from them... the other is a complex flux random generator that will make slow random fluctuations from the second S&H unit... a bit hard to explain, but it can move up and down randomly in a slow manner, and even be configured to do so only in one side of a unipolar signal... so the module allows for some interesting random functionality even for bi and unipolar uses. To top it all off, the build in clock can be tracked with a 1V/O cv... yes it's that fast... this allow for use as a square wave oscillator... even the ranges in randomness of the random clock signal can be set in 7 different ranges... this allow the output from the random clock generator to not only work as a square oscillator, but also a digital noise generator when going into audio range... the divisors in random range gives the noise some very pleasant tonal qualities which will be cool for doing percussion sounds too. And of course a lot of the parameters can be CV modulated... this module is a power house of randomness, and it will definitely serve me well in all things random and chaotic :)
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I'm quitting linking to ModularGrid because my setup changes so fast, that it's already outdated for the post I'm linking from :) ... it does take some time to find the best solution, but I think I'm about there now... at least when it comes to the KB37 which will be my main sound generating system.
It simply consist of five modules... a buffered multiple, three TONESTAR 2600's and a new mixer module in the end, that I just ordered.
The ideer is still to have three "layers" made from three TONESTAR 2600, and then use these in any combination possible for creating the sound itself... I'll be buying Doepfer 48HP black cases that I can put on top of each other on each side of my KB37, all the way up to 5*48HP on each side if needed... this gives the best solution (I've checked all possible solutions carefully on the net first) because it's not skiff restricted in depth, has built in power comes in black, and can be stacked... and everything is within reach of both my hands and the KB37 for patching.
The new mixer module I just bought was a bit expensive compared to the Doepfer mini mixer I had previously (but sent back)... I wanted something that could do CV crossfading and panning, along with simple mixing, and also allow for some performance crossfading/panning...
I found that SSF/WMD makes some rather flexible modules, in not too many HP which suits me nicely... I recently bought their random module and today I ordered their BLENDER module which does all of the criteria I just wrote for mixing/panning/crossfading.
The Eurorack GAS is slowly but securely growing here... I was warned... i know... I had to give in at some point or the setup will be too restricted for all of my ideers :)
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The Eurorack GAS is slowly but securely growing here... I was warned... i know... I had to give in at some point or the setup will be too restricted for all of my ideers :)
Let this thread be a warning to others!
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The Eurorack GAS is slowly but securely growing here... I was warned... i know... I had to give in at some point or the setup will be too restricted for all of my ideers :)
Let this thread be a warning to others!
Resistance is futile! :D
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Wanted to get some different filters in the future for my utility cases... found a used Erica dTech VCF very cheap so I decided to get it even though it could have waited... it's a rather configurable version of the Polivoks filter, and I think it has so much instability that it's a charm in itself... reason for it being cheap is that the guy who sell it, has been messing with the calibration knobs, and he cannot recalibrate it again to sound correct... I should be able to fix this, as I've got the DIY build instructions for it... so got this one when it was cheap, instead of waiting...
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so I went on the hunt for a dedicated random module and found the Steady State Fate - URA (Ultra Random Analog) module which is stuffed with different and crazy randomness... this module is a bit of a "all in one randomness" module which suits me perfectly... I almost decided on the Make Noise Wogglebug which is also pretty cool, but the SSF module won the day, mainly because it seems more feature packed, and I like the design a lot better than Make Noise stuff... honestly I hate the Make Noise design... the faceplates are filled with blinking strange lights, weird symbolic drawings, arrows going in all directions and unreadable text in general... no I REALLY do not like their design :/
SSF/WMD is one of my top three or four favorite euro makers. They do a lot of interesting things, with a solid build, and they use space efficiently. Sometimes their panels seem a little too cramped, but it would be hard for me to part with my ModBox. I don't need lots of random stuff, so ModBox pretty much handles it (with noise source and S&H).
Make Noise is easily my favorite. My early reaction to their panel design was the same as yours. But once I learned to love the modules, I started to love their panels. But, a lot of people do re-face Make Noise modules with Grayscale panels.
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so I went on the hunt for a dedicated random module and found the Steady State Fate - URA (Ultra Random Analog) module which is stuffed with different and crazy randomness... this module is a bit of a "all in one randomness" module which suits me perfectly... I almost decided on the Make Noise Wogglebug which is also pretty cool, but the SSF module won the day, mainly because it seems more feature packed, and I like the design a lot better than Make Noise stuff... honestly I hate the Make Noise design... the faceplates are filled with blinking strange lights, weird symbolic drawings, arrows going in all directions and unreadable text in general... no I REALLY do not like their design :/
SSF/WMD is one of my top three or four favorite euro makers. They do a lot of interesting things, with a solid build, and they use space efficiently. Sometimes their panels seem a little too cramped, but it would be hard for me to part with my ModBox. I don't need lots of random stuff, so ModBox pretty much handles it (with noise source and S&H).
Make Noise is easily my favorite. My early reaction to their panel design was the same as yours. But once I learned to love the modules, I started to love their panels. But, a lot of people do re-face Make Noise modules with Grayscale panels.
ModBox is also on my wish list for the future when I'm to get myself some LFOs... the random module does not provide any LFO's and I just know I'll be wanting more LFO's at some point :) ... they actually have a few more modules I'd like... the Toolbox is one of them.
Other manufacturers that I like are Intelijel and Happy Nerding, which both have some rather useful modules, especially some that manipulate two sound sources like FM AID, uMod and uFold, small but useful tools to wreak havoc with the standard analog waveforms for new timbres... these are also on my list.
Regardsing MakeNoise... yes... they have a lot of interresting modules as well, so if they have something I feel I need, I'll get them nonetheless... even if I do not like the design... design comes last after all...
But the modules I'll be going for first are waveform modulation stuff and some CV manipulation tools... filters too, but they can wait a bit... but it is hard to decide what comes first, and what comes next.
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Other manufacturers that I like are Intelijel and Happy Nerding, which both have some rather useful modules, especially some that manipulate two sound sources like FM AID, uMod and uFold, small but useful tools to wreak havoc with the standard analog waveforms for new timbres... these are also on my list.
Intellijel is also at the top of my list. But for a wave folder, see also SSF/WMD's Ultrafold. I had this one for a while (before I got the Sputnik Dual) and it really shimmers, supposedly a bit less subtle than µFold. I also had µMod really early on, but I never really got along with the ring mod sound. But it also has logic functions, which is nice to have.
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Other manufacturers that I like are Intelijel and Happy Nerding, which both have some rather useful modules, especially some that manipulate two sound sources like FM AID, uMod and uFold, small but useful tools to wreak havoc with the standard analog waveforms for new timbres... these are also on my list.
Intellijel is also at the top of my list. But for a wave folder, see also SSF/WMD's Ultrafold. I had this one for a while (before I got the Sputnik Dual) and it really shimmers, supposedly a bit less subtle than µFold. I also had µMod really early on, but I never really got along with the ring mod sound. But it also has logic functions, which is nice to have.
I'll make sure to check out the SSF one as well... I'll probably end up with the one with the most features, unless there is a drastic difference in the sound from one to the other that I like better.
I do like the atonal RingMod sound... as I'm going to work with layers from the three TONESTARs, I'll most likely shape the transient in some sounds, simply by taking a ringmod sound (or other ways of mangling some inharmonic textures) and shaping it into a "click" in the beginning... I've never been a fan of just molding some noise really... also RingMod sounds are perfect for creating hihats when you use it with a HiPass filter and can be used in lots of sound FX patches too... so I'm definitely going to get one....
The waveshaper has the advantage of staying "in pitch" which is why I want one of those for giving other waveforms than just sine/triangle/Sawtooth/Pulse... but also for using them as modulator for FM synthesis, or even as a source for a RingMod carrier/modulator.... in general I'm on the lookout for modules that can take two signals together and mangle them into something new at audio rates... this is also why I'm interested in the FM AID module from Happy Nerding... they also have a module that will make any single audio oscillator turn into a thick supersaw kind of sound which also loks quite interesting... though, this is just an in->out kind of module.
I know there is probably a lot more options out there, but these are the ones I've listened to in videos and like what I heard :)
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Just got my SSF - Ultra Random Analog module home... this is really a smorgasboard of randomness... and it's all so useful in each it's own way... you may think that having a normal S&H is enough, and maybe it is depending on your needs, and your other modules to complement, but if you need a contained random module with a lot of features, this is really it... it's hard to describe all it does, but when you start utilizing the different types of random flavours, you can definitely hear the potential of this module... it's not just "random" all of it... it is randomness in a very wide variety of ways, and you do not need any other module to go along with it... it has it all... random gates, random voltages, slew generator and other strange features... combined with my TONESTAR module alone, it will make it sound very different... from R2D2, to chirping birds over aggressive computer bleeps and bloops to bubbling analog "lava" or fairy dust tinkling... this module will do all I need when it comes to special FX that's for sure... this is NOT a module that will leave the building.
I'm waiting for the "Blender" module from SSF/WMD as well, and I'm already imagining modulating it's crossfade CV with inputs from two TONESTAR modules playing different stuff.... I'm beginning to understand the importance of modulation options in your Eurorack setup, but also another and maybe just as important aspect: routings.... Routings is what truly lets you mangle stuff up, and with these two aspects (modulation and routing) you finally get that these two are the alfa omega difference to an ordinary synthesizer... a deep DSI synth surely have modulation in abundance, but it's locked into a hardwired signal path and that is where the modular world really let it get interesting...
Next module will be a module with at least two LFO's, but which (like the URA) is selfcontained and offer a lot of options when it comes to LFO modulation... the ModBox from SSF/WMD is one candidate, but I want to see what other companies can offer in this department without going crazy with the HP size... I'm still puzzled that the MATHS module need to be that wide.... a waste of HP space in my opinion... but it's a function generator more than an LFO... I know that these function generators with their "rise/fall" parameters can simulate a lot of things, but they do not do a true LFO sinewave which I'd like to have...
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Most modules seem to be sized to the size of the PCB/s, looks quite sizeable on the Maths:
(https://www.schneidersladen.de/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_32722.jpg)
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Most modules seem to be sized to the size of the PCB/s, looks quite sizeable on the Maths:
(https://www.schneidersladen.de/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_32722.jpg)
Yes... the skiff friendly ones usually look like that and are a bit wider because they place them parallel to the front panel, and sandwich them in most cases because the first panel houses all of the switches and knobs that leave no room on the PCB for the other components... but when using a sandwiched layout, it should be possible to narrow the panel a bit, since the only restraint is the size of the sockets, switches and pots... I can grasp that some people want spacing in between knobs, and for that MATHS does a good job... but it would be nice to have a more compact version of it as well... modular cases are quite expensive, so some people want the panels as narrow as possible without cramping them up totally... i just feel that MATHS could benefit from a more narrow version...
Then there are the skiff unfriendly ones where the PCB is running non-parallel to the frontpanel... these can of course get a lot narrower, but will allow for less control and sockets, and also the depth in the case is not very skiff friendly...
So it's a bit of a compromize what you choose I guess... in my case it seems that both types are important... KB37 has it's rightmost 15hp only capable of taking 2,5cm in depth at the bottom of the module (it rises the closer you get to the top of the module), and this does not allow for most modules to be there, not even skiff friendly ones (probably the most single irritating thing about the KB37)... in the rest of the HP space the depth is 6,5cm which is better, and there I prefer that the HP width is as small as possible... want to cram in as much as possible :D
By the way, what is that module you pictured? does not look like MATHS?
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Selling a lot of cables and rack equipment over the last week, from the last 25 years of gear hoarding has given me enough doe to purchase a small module that I've had my eyes on... I was originally most interrested in the SSF/WMD ModBox to get some advanced LFO options, but the dealer did not have this home, so I'll have to wait a bit for that one...
I recently had the Pittsburgh Reflector analog BBD analog delay module, but sent it back because I find analog delays too dark and smudgy with longer delay times... it does have a character of its own of course, but if you want to use the delay also for feedback tricks back into the audio path, I really want a clearer delay.... a digital delay line.
I've also wanted something to give some stereo perspective from a mono source... so I decided on the SSF/WMD DPLR module... it seems to do a lot in only 4HP when it comes to delays and even chorusing, and since the rest of my modulation units are from the same company, I found this a no brainer... it'll allow me to try out different feedback stuff between the two TONESTAR 2600 modules...
Honestly, the delays I like the best are the hybrid type... one where the delay itself is digital, but where you can take the delayed signal and feed it thru an analog filter before returning it into the delay to give sort of a semi-analog character... the DPLR also gives different direct feedback options that will cross the modulations L/R being able to get pingpong delays... I'm a BIG fan of pingpong delays and are very pleased this is also possible with the DPLR module...
I also recieved both the second TONESTAR today, and also the BLENDER module from SSF/WMD, so now my KB37 starts to look more complete... the hole in it is getting drastically smaller, which is both good and sad at the same time :D
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Found out that the DPLR module cannot output 100% wet... it will obviously always have 100% dry signal mixed into the delay which does limit it's use in external feedback routing somewhat... i wondered why SSF/WMD would make something like that, so I got suspicious if this is because of a limitation on the delay chip it's based around so I downloaded the datasheet for the delay chip..
..and it is a chip limitation... it will always output the dry signal from it's output as well as the delayed signal... this is in the way it's created... which is kind of a strange way really...
The signal goes into the chip ... in the analog domain this signal is mixed with the internal delayed sound which has been converted via a DA converter... that is, the dry input signal is mixed in the analog domain with the converted DA signal and sent directly out of the chip in the analog domain.
The dry signal is then converted in an on chip AD converter, and processed digitally... then it is converted again via internal DA which is then mixed with the analog signal at the input as described earlier...
This means that the dry signal is unaffected by the digital signal processing... this is good... and even the mixing is performed in the analog domain... also good... but even better:
the chip has two internal ANALOG LOWPASS filters... one is present right BEFORE the AD converter so that the input can be filtered... but the other filter is AFTER the DA converter in the end before being mixed with the dry input signal...
These two filters can be switched on/off, which explains why the DPLR module has four filter modes because that takes care of both filters which can be switched on and thus gives those four modes.
The drawback is that you cannot get only the delayed signal like I had hoped, but the good thing is that this module does not need to have it's feedback go to an external filter module to create those hybrid analog delays... the module has it's own analog LP filtering of the feedback (and even the input)... strangely the analog filter in the end is mixed BEFORE the input filter too... giving you effectively the chance to configure the filter as 12 or 24 db (provided the filters are not 6db ones, but 12db ones of course).
This makes this delay unit exactly what I wanted... a digital/analog hybrid delay unit... with the only drawback that it cannot send out only the delayed signal... but this may be partly bettered with the fact that with the pre filter on, the dry signal will at least be filtered a bit before I route it back into the system elsewhere... not the same, but I hope this will allow for some nice feedback options anyway...
Also this hybrid setup makes chorusing a hybrid chorus as well... so it's two hybrid FX in one here... and then of course in stereo (output)... quite an interesting module I think... :)
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By the way, what is that module you pictured? does not look like MATHS?
You are quite right it isn't, a slight senior moment there.
To keep it up how about:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2066/2709622100_688ec09245_b.jpg)
So big it needs two power lines.
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Next module will be a module with at least two LFO's, but which (like the URA) is selfcontained and offer a lot of options when it comes to LFO modulation... the ModBox from SSF/WMD is one candidate, but I want to see what other companies can offer in this department without going crazy with the HP size... I'm still puzzled that the MATHS module need to be that wide.... a waste of HP space in my opinion... but it's a function generator more than an LFO... I know that these function generators with their "rise/fall" parameters can simulate a lot of things, but they do not do a true LFO sinewave which I'd like to have...
I have both a ModBox and Maths. Keep in mind that I've got 144HP of space, so Maths is a fairly large percentage of that, but it's definitely worth it. It's got attenuation for each channel, logic, an offset generator/attenuator/polarizer in the middle. It's also my system's only envelope generator.
The question of Maths's size highlights a trend in eurorack toward micro-everything. Open-source hardware modules like Mutable Instruments's digital stuff, and Ornaments and Crime, get made into smaller kits with more closely-spaced jacks and controls. This is fine, but I enjoy my synth more as a musical instrument when things are spread out a bit. I've had as many as 17 modules in my case. Now, I'm down to 12 because I've got big things like Moskwa, Phonogene, and Maths, that take up a lot of real estate, but are enjoyable to patch and play.
ModBox is one concession I've made to miniaturization, but that's because it's is so good. First off, the LFOs are sync-able, and you can choose whether one, both, or none, are synced. When an LFO is synced, the rate knobs act as dividers/multipliers. So you can have them cycle n times per trigger, or one time for every n triggers where n=1~16. It's great for creating polyrhythms.
ModBox also accurately tracks volt-per-octave for both channels, and runs at audio rates. In other words, it's a decent oscillator. It doesn't have a fine tune control, so it's a bit fiddly to get in tune; but once you do, it tracks very well.
And finally, they threw in a simple sample-and-hold circuit, whose trigger is normaled to once of the oscillators, and whose input is normaled to a noise source. All this, and yet it doesn't feel too cramped. I'd highly recommend it if you need a pair of LFOs.
See also Klavis Twin Waves. I've never had one, but I've considered it. It's an 8HP dual oscillator that goes to the LFO range, with a bunch of synthesis algorithms.
See also Tetrapad. I'm a huge Tetrapad fan, and I'll have two pretty soon in a separate control skiff. It's a wide 20HP, but it'll function as a quad LFO. The downside is that there's no CV in on the Tetrapad, so you can't modulate rate or anything.
See also Batumi, which is an enormously flexible quad LFO in 10HP. It might very well be the single best LFO module in eurorack. It's one of the few things I'd give up ModBox for if I could find the space. But my system is soon to have 14 potential LFOs, so I'm not exactly hurting in that department.
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Next module will be a module with at least two LFO's, but which (like the URA) is selfcontained and offer a lot of options when it comes to LFO modulation... the ModBox from SSF/WMD is one candidate, but I want to see what other companies can offer in this department without going crazy with the HP size... I'm still puzzled that the MATHS module need to be that wide.... a waste of HP space in my opinion... but it's a function generator more than an LFO... I know that these function generators with their "rise/fall" parameters can simulate a lot of things, but they do not do a true LFO sinewave which I'd like to have...
I have both a ModBox and Maths. Keep in mind that I've got 144HP of space, so Maths is a fairly large percentage of that, but it's definitely worth it. It's got attenuation for each channel, logic, an offset generator/attenuator/polarizer in the middle. It's also my system's only envelope generator.
The question of Maths's size highlights a trend in eurorack toward micro-everything. Open-source hardware modules like Mutable Instruments's digital stuff, and Ornaments and Crime, get made into smaller kits with more closely-spaced jacks and controls. This is fine, but I enjoy my synth more as a musical instrument when things are spread out a bit. I've had as many as 17 modules in my case. Now, I'm down to 12 because I've got big things like Moskwa, Phonogene, and Maths, that take up a lot of real estate, but are enjoyable to patch and play.
ModBox is one concession I've made to miniaturization, but that's because it's is so good. First off, the LFOs are sync-able, and you can choose whether one, both, or none, are synced. When an LFO is synced, the rate knobs act as dividers/multipliers. So you can have them cycle n times per trigger, or one time for every n triggers where n=1~16. It's great for creating polyrhythms.
ModBox also accurately tracks volt-per-octave for both channels, and runs at audio rates. In other words, it's a decent oscillator. It doesn't have a fine tune control, so it's a bit fiddly to get in tune; but once you do, it tracks very well.
And finally, they threw in a simple sample-and-hold circuit, whose trigger is normaled to once of the oscillators, and whose input is normaled to a noise source. All this, and yet it doesn't feel too cramped. I'd highly recommend it if you need a pair of LFOs.
See also Klavis Twin Waves. I've never had one, but I've considered it. It's an 8HP dual oscillator that goes to the LFO range, with a bunch of synthesis algorithms.
See also Tetrapad. I'm a huge Tetrapad fan, and I'll have two pretty soon in a separate control skiff. It's a wide 20HP, but it'll function as a quad LFO. The downside is that there's no CV in on the Tetrapad, so you can't modulate rate or anything.
See also Batumi, which is an enormously flexible quad LFO in 10HP. It might very well be the single best LFO module in eurorack. It's one of the few things I'd give up ModBox for if I could find the space. But my system is soon to have 14 potential LFOs, so I'm not exactly hurting in that department.
Point is that I have to find a middle-ground for all of this... I've been toying with the idear of more cases by my KB37's sides that could be stacked, but we all know where this will lead... and one thing I think will pull me down is if I have to patch too much or even just the capability to do that... the initial ideer I had, where I wanted to have several modules, but configure only what could be inside my KB37 for a project seems more and more like the most reasonable way for me to go... and this is why it matters if the modules are too wide... I have 107HP to do with... so letting MATHS into this setup severely minimize what other modules I can put inside the KB37... I like the features of MATHS, but I will not buy one until it has been "compacted" I'm afraid... there are other smaller solutions even if they don't match MATHS 100%.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not hunting only small modules, but I want bang for the HP... I have two 32HP TONESTARS in there currently which takes a lot of the space, but they are so feature packed in variety that it's worth it...
The three SSF/WMD modules I've got are compact, but I do not find them hard to use really... in fact they are easily patched because all patch points are located beneath the knob area... this is how I like modules to be arranged...
I'll take a look at the modules you mentioned... think I already have considered the Batumi... seemed like a comprehensive module...
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Next module will be a module with at least two LFO's, but which (like the URA) is selfcontained and offer a lot of options when it comes to LFO modulation... the ModBox from SSF/WMD is one candidate, but I want to see what other companies can offer in this department without going crazy with the HP size... I'm still puzzled that the MATHS module need to be that wide.... a waste of HP space in my opinion... but it's a function generator more than an LFO... I know that these function generators with their "rise/fall" parameters can simulate a lot of things, but they do not do a true LFO sinewave which I'd like to have...
I have both a ModBox and Maths. Keep in mind that I've got 144HP of space, so Maths is a fairly large percentage of that, but it's definitely worth it. It's got attenuation for each channel, logic, an offset generator/attenuator/polarizer in the middle. It's also my system's only envelope generator.
The question of Maths's size highlights a trend in eurorack toward micro-everything. Open-source hardware modules like Mutable Instruments's digital stuff, and Ornaments and Crime, get made into smaller kits with more closely-spaced jacks and controls. This is fine, but I enjoy my synth more as a musical instrument when things are spread out a bit. I've had as many as 17 modules in my case. Now, I'm down to 12 because I've got big things like Moskwa, Phonogene, and Maths, that take up a lot of real estate, but are enjoyable to patch and play.
ModBox is one concession I've made to miniaturization, but that's because it's is so good. First off, the LFOs are sync-able, and you can choose whether one, both, or none, are synced. When an LFO is synced, the rate knobs act as dividers/multipliers. So you can have them cycle n times per trigger, or one time for every n triggers where n=1~16. It's great for creating polyrhythms.
ModBox also accurately tracks volt-per-octave for both channels, and runs at audio rates. In other words, it's a decent oscillator. It doesn't have a fine tune control, so it's a bit fiddly to get in tune; but once you do, it tracks very well.
And finally, they threw in a simple sample-and-hold circuit, whose trigger is normaled to once of the oscillators, and whose input is normaled to a noise source. All this, and yet it doesn't feel too cramped. I'd highly recommend it if you need a pair of LFOs.
See also Klavis Twin Waves. I've never had one, but I've considered it. It's an 8HP dual oscillator that goes to the LFO range, with a bunch of synthesis algorithms.
See also Tetrapad. I'm a huge Tetrapad fan, and I'll have two pretty soon in a separate control skiff. It's a wide 20HP, but it'll function as a quad LFO. The downside is that there's no CV in on the Tetrapad, so you can't modulate rate or anything.
See also Batumi, which is an enormously flexible quad LFO in 10HP. It might very well be the single best LFO module in eurorack. It's one of the few things I'd give up ModBox for if I could find the space. But my system is soon to have 14 potential LFOs, so I'm not exactly hurting in that department.
That Klavis osc/lfo... to me it seems like it's a digital module, but it does not say this on ModularGrid... also, pots double in function as osc1 & 2 is set by pressing a button to select which one to edit... that is a complete no-go for me... i want 100% hands on :) ... but besides that, it does pack a lot of functionality into just 10HP... I'm a little sad it's not 100% hands on and analog... I'd have liked a small compact OSC/LFO module so that I could use it both as LFOs but also as oscillators if needed as an extra...
Batumi looks good, but it also looks digital... not that it matters, but I'd prefer as much analog as possible even if it means less features... that is because I'm trying to find a package that is both OSC and LFO... and as soon as a digital oscillator enters very high frequency they start to fall apart in aliasing ... I'd like to stick as much as possible to analog variants... also I don't need 4 LFO's rather two is enough, and since the ModBox is narrower this is still my prefered module...
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My perspective on Maths is this:
It seemed like a cult. Everybody was talking about how good it was, and how everyone needs it. And I was like, don't tell me what I need, $&^%@, I'll do what I want. I came to Maths sort of organically. I identified features that I was missing with Function and SPO. The big one was attenuversion on the function generator outputs. Too few LFOs have this, and you need to use a VCA or external attenuator to get any nuance from the modulation. The other feature was voltage control over cycling. This is killer. It's basically the ability to stop an LFO if you want to with another modulation source. So I acquired Maths out of a desire for specific features over what I already had. It was compelling enough to make the switch.
Sometimes, a product comes along that's so bloody good at its job that it deserves all the accolades that it gets. Another thing is that Maths is sort of the Lingua Franca of eurorack. When a new generative technique is described, it's usually described with Maths. You can make the patch using other stuff, of course, but Maths is kind of an anchor. It's a good learning tool because (almost) everyone has one.
Certainly, "Maths but smaller" has been a desire for years. It hasn't been done, despite the enormous sales such a thing would accrue. Maybe someone will do it.
Everyone's needs vary, though. I'm firmly committed to the idea that there's no wrong way to do a eurorack synth. One can only be "wrong" within one's own system. In other words, if I do something "wrong," I will realize it and correct it myself, as my budget allows. For me, getting Maths was a course correction.
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The three SSF/WMD modules I've got are compact, but I do not find them hard to use really... in fact they are easily patched because all patch points are located beneath the knob area... this is how I like modules to be arranged...
Yeah, they do small really well. They're small, but they don't feel small, if that makes sense.
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The three SSF/WMD modules I've got are compact, but I do not find them hard to use really... in fact they are easily patched because all patch points are located beneath the knob area... this is how I like modules to be arranged...
Yeah, they do small really well. They're small, but they don't feel small, if that makes sense.
I use the phrase "Compact" ... sounds better :D
I agree with your MATHS explanation... point is that I've probably not really fathomed what that module is capable of, and the reason is probably that I hate the layout and the style... nothing about it makes me curious really... with a quick glance it just look a bit like a double function generator... MakeNoise also make another module called "Function" that looks like it's one half of MATHS... point is... i need to know what it does for me that I need... but when I do not feel attracted to it, to investigate it further... it stays there... I guess... but again, it simply takes up too much space no matter how good it is in a 107HP setup...
Maybe it also has to do with the fact, that I'm still rellatively new to the modular world, and I'm not sure yet what it is that I really need... I don't believe that MATHS is essential for every system in existence, so I'd like to be certain that I need it, before getting one... and I have not stumbled on MATHS yet when seeking stuff that I feel I need... not in a way that other modules much narrower can do the job...
Maybe someday in the future, I'll figure out the mojo with this module... and then... hopefully... that day, there will be a narrow version of it :D
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I don't believe that MATHS is essential for every system in existence
This is absolutely true. When it comes right down to it, Maths is an envelope generator and/or LFO. If your needs are served by Moog-style ASDRs and dedicated LFOs, you can live your whole life without a function generator.
My synth is strongly influenced by the traditional Buchla voice, which has function generators instead of ASDRs and LFOs. That's also sort of Make Noise's general direction, and until the Contour came out they didn't even make a dedicated ASDR. They still don't make a dedicated LFO. And in true Make Noise fashion, Contour can cycle.
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I don't believe that MATHS is essential for every system in existence
This is absolutely true. When it comes right down to it, Maths is an envelope generator and/or LFO. If your needs are served by Moog-style ASDRs and dedicated LFOs, you can live your whole life without a function generator.
My synth is strongly influenced by the traditional Buchla voice, which has function generators instead of ASDRs and LFOs. That's also sort of Make Noise's general direction, and until the Contour came out they didn't even make a dedicated ASDR. They still don't make a dedicated LFO. And in true Make Noise fashion, Contour can cycle.
I can see their usage... for sure... as a flexible modulation source, but I do not feel they cover all ground of either ADSR or LFO... ADSR's have a bit more control over the shape and an LFO can have a sine waveform... the function generator can make the LFO waveform skewed as a special... I'd like to have one, but I can do with something smaller and more compact :)
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I have decided to forget all about a dedicated eurorack setup, I know it's not going to last anyway... I'll get bored of a static setup at some point, and new things will GAS up my attention... so I'm back at the first ideer i got, which is probably the best... set up a system of modules in the KB37 107HP, and make a tune with that... next project may house other modules in a completely different setup... i need to do this to keep myself focused.
It does not really matter what modules is put in... i may even choose most randomly, just for the fun of seeing what you can make with a random system... I may get surprised because I have to think creatively, which is something I love to do anyway.
So I'm not thinking much about how modules will fit together anymore... I've got ONE TONESTAR which will always be able to make sounds for use, and then anything else in the setup is just "add ons"...
This method also allow me to buy 2nd hand a little better, since the modules only has to catch my attention... so I bought a few more modules cheap that I found interesting... first a Frequency Central - Continuum Phase Shifter... second, a funny LFO called "Psycho LFO" from CSG... all it does is make chaotic random fluctuations, which I guess i could do with my random module as well, but it probably has it's own charm, and was dirt cheap... and it takes up less space in situations where the random module is not in a setup... Also I will buy an analog formant filter by the end of the week... the Grendel Formant Filter V2... I dig it's sound a lot, and it will be handy for vowel sounds.
In general (though it may sound stupid I know). I'm trying just to fill up the KB37 completely, as fast as possible with interresting cheap 2nd hand modules, just to get started with a projet... I'm close now.. :)
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A link to the current setup on ModularGrid : https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/633977
It looks horribly chaotic, but that's just how it is :D ... I need to find something interresting for the last 10HP now... it will probably be some kind of oscillator module if I can find one, but maybe I find something completely different instead :D ...
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It does not really matter what modules is put in... i may even choose most randomly, just for the fun of seeing what you can make with a random system... I may get surprised because I have to think creatively, which is something I love to do anyway.
Here, you can try this out. Just paste your Modular Grid URL into the input, choose how many modules you want to use, and it will randomly pick that many of them.
http://www.beigemaze.com/challenge/
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It looks horribly chaotic, but that's just how it is :D ... I need to find something interresting for the last 10HP now... it will probably be some kind of oscillator module if I can find one, but maybe I find something completely different instead :D ...
Something "completely different" in 10HP screams "DSM03!"
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I stumbled upon this while researching the Boss Bow Tie switch:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/alm-busy-circuits-alm008-pip-slope
It's a function generator in 4HP, cut pretty much down to the bare essentials.
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It does not really matter what modules is put in... i may even choose most randomly, just for the fun of seeing what you can make with a random system... I may get surprised because I have to think creatively, which is something I love to do anyway.
Here, you can try this out. Just paste your Modular Grid URL into the input, choose how many modules you want to use, and it will randomly pick that many of them.
http://www.beigemaze.com/challenge/
That's actually a cool thing... I just wish it could choose from among modules that you actually have, otherwise it'll be quite an expensive thing :)
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It looks horribly chaotic, but that's just how it is :D ... I need to find something interresting for the last 10HP now... it will probably be some kind of oscillator module if I can find one, but maybe I find something completely different instead :D ...
Something "completely different" in 10HP screams "DSM03!"
Hmm... it certainly would add something new to the pallette, but I'd wish he had made that filter analog at least... it's a 100% digital module which somehow lowers my interest a bit... I know that is stupid, but that's how my GAS works :/
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I stumbled upon this while researching the Boss Bow Tie switch:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/alm-busy-circuits-alm008-pip-slope
It's a function generator in 4HP, cut pretty much down to the bare essentials.
Cool little thing actually... I like that most function generators allow you to CV modulate the attack/decay times because this allow you to feedback the output into the rate times for very plucky envelopes... marvelous for basses and other plucked things...
But what that video told me was, that I just need to get one of those O' Tools... I've wanted one since I saw it, and it really is handy that you can see what you are doing, even though it takes up a bit of space... it kilsl me that it's so deep it cannot sit all to the right in my KB37... that would have been perfect since those last 15HP can only be 25HP deep... but I'll get one anyway... it's a really nice and (to me) essential visual tool.
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I decided I needed some kind of oscillator for the last 10HP... and I decided I should probably get a digital oscillator and stop this freakin' aversion against digital, as long as it sounds good :) ... found a used Synthesis Technology - E350 Morphing Terrarium wavetable oscillator used for about half the price of a new one, including expander.
I find this one interesting because it has the waves set up in an X/Y/Z kind of pattern, begging for a joystick controller module at some point... it interpolates up to 24.000 different waveforms when morphing around plus other stuff, and most important: it is one knob per function... no menus or other things like dump features that will just have me hangin' for eons before feeling "ready to use" :)
It is wider than 10HP, but I'll just flip out the Psycho LFO as this is not that important in this first project, as I'd rather use the Ultra Random Analog for my first project...
This also means that I'm ready to go and make a tune... yay! ...
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The link to my modular grid setup in the post a few entries up show how the first projekt will look like... I took the buffered mult out as I will not need it in this setup... wonder what will come out of this weird mix of modules :D
Here is a SoundCloud link to tunes done with the E350 Morphing Terrarium... https://soundcloud.com/grimulkan/sets/e350
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I decided I needed some kind of oscillator for the last 10HP... and I decided I should probably get a digital oscillator and stop this freakin' aversion against digital, as long as it sounds good :) ... found a used Synthesis Technology - E350 Morphing Terrarium wavetable oscillator used for about half the price of a new one, including expander.
I find this one interesting because it has the waves set up in an X/Y/Z kind of pattern, begging for a joystick controller module at some point... it interpolates up to 24.000 different waveforms when morphing around plus other stuff, and most important: it is one knob per function... no menus or other things like dump features that will just have me hangin' for eons before feeling "ready to use" :)
It is wider than 10HP, but I'll just flip out the Psycho LFO as this is not that important in this first project, as I'd rather use the Ultra Random Analog for my first project...
This also means that I'm ready to go and make a tune... yay! ...
Good choice. They sound really awsome – at least according to the YouTube videos I watched about this and its successor, the Cloud Terrarium.
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It does not really matter what modules is put in... i may even choose most randomly, just for the fun of seeing what you can make with a random system... I may get surprised because I have to think creatively, which is something I love to do anyway.
Here, you can try this out. Just paste your Modular Grid URL into the input, choose how many modules you want to use, and it will randomly pick that many of them.
http://www.beigemaze.com/challenge/
That's actually a cool thing... I just wish it could choose from among modules that you actually have, otherwise it'll be quite an expensive thing :)
Just make a second ModularGrid rack that contains only the modules you own.
Hmm... [DSM03] certainly would add something new to the pallette, but I'd wish he had made that filter analog at least... it's a 100% digital module which somehow lowers my interest a bit... I know that is stupid, but that's how my GAS works :/
The DSM03's digital filter isn't meant to be your main audio filter. It's a dampener to simulate absorption in the feedback path, and it does that job very well. I have no problem with the DSM03's digital nature. Its processor is blazing fast and handles auto-rate modulation like a boss. But it consumes as much power as downtown Tokyo at night.
I decided I needed some kind of oscillator for the last 10HP... and I decided I should probably get a digital oscillator and stop this freakin' aversion against digital, as long as it sounds good :) ... found a used Synthesis Technology - E350 Morphing Terrarium wavetable oscillator used for about half the price of a new one, including expander.
This also means that I'm ready to go and make a tune... yay! ...
That's awesome, nice find!
But what that video told me was, that I just need to get one of those O' Tools... I've wanted one since I saw it, and it really is handy that you can see what you are doing, even though it takes up a bit of space... it kilsl me that it's so deep it cannot sit all to the right in my KB37... that would have been perfect since those last 15HP can only be 25HP deep... but I'll get one anyway... it's a really nice and (to me) essential visual tool.
It's the opposite for me. I can't imagine putting something like that in a synth case. I'm looking at handheld oscilloscopes, but O'Tool seems like a waste of rack space. My perspective, though, is one of a strict HP-out-for-HP-in limit.
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I agree about O'Tool... that is also what has kept me from getting one actually... but point is that it IS nice to see what you're doing, so maybe an external alternative... but are there any!? unless it's a huge oscilloscope meant for building electronics? ... would be nice with a compact one that has the same features as O' Tools... not just an oscilloscope view, but also one showing slow CV oscillations because that is where I see the most use besides analyzing how waveforms look... to be able to see the shapes created by CV modulators etc... checking that stuff do not clip etc...
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A few new things... first of, i did not get that E350 wavetable module, someone beat me to it, so it'll have to wait a bit since I'm not ready to pay full price for that yet :)
Instead, I got both the Continuum Phaser and DTech Filter home... the DTech needed calibration which was why it was quite cheap, but it took me 5minutes to calibrate it, so that was a good thing... this filter can scream like a witch, a really odd filter with lots of resonant howling and unstableness... useful thing for lots of things... it does take up a lot of HP space in my opinion though... but it'll be handy for some special jobs.
The Continuum Phaser also sounds really good and even have two audio inputs and two CV inputs... enough parameters to tweak in that one, and will certainly be good for certain jobs too.
In addition, I've got the DPLR from SSF/WMD home... i thought it could not produce a 100% wet signal, but it does... I don't know how they managed this though, as the delay chips datasheet depicts a signal flow that should make that impossible since the dry input signal is mixed at the input with the delayed DSP signal and output BEFORE the DSP input in the analog domain... so how they remove the dry signal i do not know... wonder if they somehow add an inverted dry signal to the output to cancel out the dry signal when the mix knob is moved above center position... or maybe the datasheet has it pictured wrong... dunno...
Also... one thing I've always wanted is to get completely MIDI free, so that the only thing I use the DAW for is raw analog audio recording... until now I've needed the MIDI to time tracks together, when I record them one at a time, meaning that arrangement is needed in the DAW... this is what I'd like to get away from, doing all arranging by tweaking knobs live during recording, making everything performance oriented... unfortunately, creating a modular system that allow for many tracks playing at once would require way more modules and money than I'm capable of dealing with so I've been thinking this thru pretty hard lately...
I came to the conclusion, that if I'm to use only the KB37 with a chosen 107HP of modules, I'd be hard pressed to have more than 2 or max 3 voices going at the same time.. .in most situations only 2... and for this I'd need some sort of sequencing module as well... some tracks need dead on timing, like sequencer tracks and percussion so to sync these up when recording without MIDI on different tracks become a problem.
But I've decided to try and do it anyway... as I'm recording a whole track in one go, all that would be needed is that the clock used is exactly the same, and that I start playback at the same time... a little latency is not a problem since this can be corrected by shifting a recorded track back/forth in the DAW after recording, but the timing of the clock should be deadly precise to keep in sync over several minutes in case I'm sequencing more tracks.
Most other tracks but sequencer, bass and percussion would not really need to be that timing stable... I'd just record those live... like lead synths, FX, Pads etc... so in most cases, the sequencer and bass part is what will be recorded via sequencer at the same time so that they absolutely click in timing... if I'm not able to record drums on a second layer and make it time with the bass and sequencer track, then I'll be needing some sort of expansion case for this to be done at the same time as sequencer and bass... time will tell... maybe I will even do this in the future, to get free from having to rely on the clock keeping up.
To do the sequencing I went on a little hunt because I'm more into actually PLAYING in the steps of a sequence, than editing it with some knobs or sliders like on a traditional modular sequencer... I need something that can record at least two gate and CVs in at least 32steps to get something interesting going... i found one such module... the Shakmat . Bishop's Miscellany... it does just that, and is not overly huge in HP either, so I'll order that module very soon.
It is my plan to use that for recording directly from the KB37's gate/cv output, and use the KB37's internal clock for it (the module does not have it's own clock)... the KB37 clock is digital, and can be tap-tempo'ed so that the clock will not drift, and I thus hope it will be good enough to layer sequenced tracks in the DAW without drifting... otherwise I'll just have to expand my setup a little... I will have two sound sources in the KB37 for bass and sequence, there should be enough HP space to allow both this, and some modules extra to spice things up... when these first two synths have been laid down, the backbone for the tune is there, and I can switch out the modules for percussion sounds (provided I do not expand the setup, so that this is also handled with the two other tracks at the same time)... the rest of material can be recorded live...
With this approach, I can concentrate on tweaking knobs to make the necessary dynamics in the bass/sequence/percussion while the sequencers take care of the note playing, also eliminating the need for a lot of those modulation modules, since i prefer doing all the slow movements by hand instead of using envelopes and LFOs... when the live tracks are to be recorded, sequencer modules and multiple voices is not needed, so these can be more experimental setups to create more advanced sounds with more modulation modules etc.
IF this will work well... in time... I'll probably move my computer screen from behind the KB37 on my desktop, to hanging on the wall to one side, and then invest in a large standing eurorack case to be placed right behind my KB37 and expand my system this way... having a row of HP for percussion, a row for sequencer/bass and a row for modulation modules as well... and then fill up the KB37 with the modules that I'll use in a project for playing live... but this is still only in the speculative phase :)
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The Bishop's Miscellany is pretty awesome. It would be fantastic with a CV controller like Tetrapad.
This is how I manage synchronization to DAW tracks in my system:
I don't have a MIDI module, so I don't rely on MIDI clock. Instead, I created a set of MIDI files with a single note repeated at a single duration*. I dragged these into my user clip library in Ableton, where they're always available for me to drag onto a clip in the Session View, so it loops. Now I just send this track to my SQ-1**, and it fires a gate on each note. That gate becomes the modular's master clock and it stays perfectly in-sync with the DAW, regardless of tempo.
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* One measure of 4 quarter notes, one measure of 8 eighth notes, one measure of 16 sixteenth notes, and one measure of 4 sets of eighth-note triplets. I write a good amount of music in 6/8 time, but because the MIDI files in a Session View clip just loop, the time signature of my sync tracks doesn't matter.
** Korg SQ-1 might be the best value in modular. It's at home in pretty much any combination of MIDI/CV/DAW/DAWless environment you can think up. If you part with the €119 for one, it will become the answer to a lot of questions.
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I never use MIDI clock because it is awful in timing, also most Waldorf gear show clock timing issues, and that include KB37... I tried it via USB and DIN, and both were horrible beyond any use... But sending notes and CC was rock solid... No problem with that, but that means that the sequencing and arrangement has to be done on the DAW, and i am really tired of copy/paste/drag/drop/edit... I want the tactile feel of some hardware, and arrange while recording tracks on the fly... Besides, I several times witnessed the KB37 make extreme MIDI lag up to two seconds when pressing a key, needing to powercycle it to get USB to work properly... I am just simply tired of computer MIDI problems and timing issues... I want the rock solid timing of dedicated hardware... This is why I broke with MIDI now... I have decided to even go modular with FX too and not use plugins... I will only use the DAW for recording tracks, and a bit of mixing/mastering in the end...
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Kort SQ-1 has been looked at a few times, but I'm uncertain if it is for me because I allready tried a Dark Time sequencer, and did not like having to enter notes this way... I prefer entering them via keyboard... Also I'm sceptic that the knobs will seem toy like, like with the volca/monotron synths, or it having too many obscure double function knobs and switches... It may be handy for CV sequencing other stuff like cutoff etc. So I may look into it, if having an external compact sequencer could prove HP space saving... But still I like the ideer of the KB37 being the only hardware besides the DAW for recording, so I really do not know... Time will tell... I'll start with the bishop and see if that will do it for me first, then decide on extras later :)
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For drum sequencing, I'll eventually get the other Shakmat module "Four Blocks Root"... It seems to be the Bishop companion, just for drums, so it would be a nobrainer really, and I really do not need to sequence more than four drumtracks for a given project... Kick, snare, hihat and one more accompanying percussion sound... Other percussion like cymbals and FX can easily be recorded live...
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I believe I will need a CV mixing module of some kind by the way because I would like to be able to transpose the two running sequences in the Bishop module from my KB37 keyboard, on the fly while turning knobs, to get some pitch variations into the sequences... So I need something that can add the KB37's pitch CV with the Bishop's two pitch CVs before entering the oscillator modules... I wonder if I need something special for this like with buffered mults...
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I believe I will need a CV mixing module of some kind by the way because I would like to be able to transpose the two running sequences in the Bishop module from my KB37 keyboard, on the fly while turning knobs, to get some pitch variations into the sequences... So I need something that can add the KB37's pitch CV with the Bishop's two pitch CVs before entering the oscillator modules... I wonder if I need something special for this like with buffered mults...
For transposition, you want a "unity mixer." Basically, it's a mixer whose output is an exact sum of its inputs. It's also often called a "precision adder." You want one that's nice and accurate.
I've talked about Pittsburgh Modular's Lifeforms Distro earlier in this thread. It has two 1x3 buffered multiples and a 2x2 unity mixer. I've also had Mutable Instruments Links, which has one 1x3 buffered mult, one 2x2 unity mixer, and one 3x1 averaging mixer.
The Xaoc Warna II is a bit bigger than Distro and Links (6HP vs. 4HP), but has two 1x4 buffered mults and one 4x1 unity mixer. It also has inverters on board, and--this is the awesome part--its mults are normalled to the unity mixer, which makes the inverters really handy.
I have Distro right now, and I have no complaints about it. If I could free up 2HP (which, right now, I simply can't find it), I'd jump all over a Warna.
If you just want a unity mixer, take a look at the Intellijel unity mixer in only 2HP. It has phase correction (for audio), and up to 6x1 mixing.
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As I could not get that wavetable module, I decided to look a bit further into wavetable modules available... most I find way too large for my liking, they eat up almost a third of my HP space... I could buy the E350 new, but it does have one thing which bugs me; no user changeable waveforms.
Normally I'd be ok with no user waveforms, but most of thee modules seem to have very few wavetables (of the ones at a HP size I can accept), which limits their usefulness in my opinion. Also, the E350 have no attenuators, and no build in modulators which I'd like to save space from having to cram other modules in to support it in most cases... a single LFO should be mandatory as you'd almost always want to modulate the waveform index/morph parameter.
I did find one wavetable module though, that after a little research gives me what I want... the Kotelnikov wavetable module... with OS 1.1 you can change the wavetable waveforms by playing an audio file into the SYNC input, and that's good enough for me, and they have a program that will create those wavetable audio files, which I'll be sending via a TipTop ONE module... that will make the transfer more simple for me... the Kotelnikov is only 8bit, but so was the Waldorf Microwaves... it's not a big deal when you consider some of it's other features:
1. It has it's own analog AD/AR/LFO generator included which can go far into the audible spectrum.
2. It has two passive analog filter modes for taking off some of the 8bit artifacts.
3. It can be sync'ed (hardsync), FM'ed and AM'ed well into the audio spectrum via a special multiplying DAC.
Especially the last point I find interresting because sync and AM together can create some rather cool formant like timbres... i recall this from the C64 SID chip... in general these modulations will allow for many more timbres than just the usual morphing wavetables. on top of this, the firmware is coded in assembly, which I find cool.
I was also able to find this one used at a fair price... I may have to order the firmware 1.1 upgrade from Russia, but it's only 3 dollars... i can manage that.
In addition I've also bought a used Bishop's Miscellany now... hope it will arrive tomorrow... I'll be using this for countermelodies to what the KB37 is playing, routing it's CV/Gate to other tone generators that interact with the main oscillator via Sync/AM/FM etc... the point here is to be playing the modulator via the Bishop's Miscellany to create moving and changing timbres... it was done a lot on the old C64 computer SID chip too.
And then I'm getting the Grendel analog formant filter as well... it seems like a fun module to introduce some robottic formant character into the system... I'm thinking about putting it on delays for example... did that in the past with the E-MU 1616m soundcards built in FX, and it sounds rather cool, but I bet I'll find other uses for the formant filter as well.
This also puts an end to the open space in my KB37... I now have more than 107HP worth of modules, and will begin creating a piee of music now, before buying more modules... oh... except for ONE more module... the ModTools from SSF/WMD... I need a few more LFO's going, that has become apparent to me.
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I'm looking forward to getting your thoughts about Bishop's Miscellany. I'm really tempted to try it.
Have you looked at ALM SID Guts Deluxe? If you want that C64 sound, this would be a pretty direct route. You have to supply your own SID chip, but SID Guts puts it under CV control.
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I'm looking forward to getting your thoughts about Bishop's Miscellany. I'm really tempted to try it.
Have you looked at ALM SID Guts Deluxe? If you want that C64 sound, this would be a pretty direct route. You have to supply your own SID chip, but SID Guts puts it under CV control.
Yes I have seen that one. but I'm not that impressed with it's way of functioning... probably because that chip means so much to me, and I've started building a SID synth in the past... I actually have toyed with the ideer of making my own SID Eurorack module to work how I want it to... maybe I will at some point... If I can find a way to get the I/O CV etc. right... programming the chip is easy enough... it's the I/O and protection electronics etc. that would be the challenge... If I was to make one, I'd be wanting to lay ALL it's internal parameters available for control except the built in AMP Envelopes (they are buggy).. I'm seeing this as a three oscillator module with individual control of each oscillator, and the joint analog built in filter controllable as well... giving the option to audio rate modulate all parameters... but I'm not sure I'll ever get started on this project... :)
Besides... I have plenty of SID chips left from when I was building my SID synth, so obtaining one would not be hard... think I've got about 15-20 SIDs here...
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I promised to give a review of the Shakmat - Bishops Miscellany...
I've tried it a little, but are having some problems getting it to fit into my workflow at this moment. I actually think the module is fine, it's just that to use it, you would have to have something else going in the background that has rhythm to it, and this is because it needs a clock input to work.
This cause problems in my setup because to have something running in sync, I'd have to use the KB37 CV/GATE output with the Bishop, but sine it's tied up with something else to get something going to play along to, I've got no way of recording anything into it...
Another reason is that to get the Bishop to sync to what's being played from my KB37 (via DAW), I'd need to reset the sequencer in it... KB37 send out a reset signal when the transport is stopped in my DAW, but my DAW keeps on sending out MIDI clock even when I stop playback, which means that the Bishop will continue running because of the MIDI clock pulses...
I'd say that the Bishop is not very useful together with the KB37 because of this... it may be more useful, if I got say; a KeyStep from Arturia to work as an input device to the Bishop because then I'd be able to record another sequence into it while KB37 is delivering the track to use as "backing" or "Metronome"... but then again it will become a problem to get the Bishop to line up with the DAW because of the way the SONAR sends out the reset signal...
I actually think I'll have more use of a second MIDI->CV/GATE interface that could be run from the DAW as well... it would also spare up the HP space in the KB37... this module MAY be one of the very few I'll have to sell again if I do not find a use for it.
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"I actually think I'll have more use of a second MIDI->CV/GATE interface that could be run from the DAW as well... it would also spare up the HP space in the KB37... this module MAY be one of the very few I'll have to sell again if I do not find a use for it."
If you decide to go the midi to CV/gate/clock route then...
The most flexible midi to cv/gate/clock device I use are the Kenton Pro Solo MK1 and 2.
I use the standalone external units but they also make a modular version.
http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/m-cv/modsolo.shtml
The thing I like about its clock output is that it actually stops clock transmission when it receives a stop from the master midi sequencer.
Clock divide divisions and + or negative clock are also possible.
You can also utilise the +5v Reset out of the Kenton for resets to the modular unit also.
Have a read of the manual if your interested as it has heaps of features on board.
http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/m-cv/prosolo.shtml
I have a Doepfer MSY2 midi to sync) also and that just keeps running (similar to your your DAW) as long midi clock is sent to it which is a bit annoying if your master can not stop Midi clock transmission.
Good luck.
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Thanx for the info Chysn, and I will remeber about the Kenton because that clock stopping would be crucial if I'm going to clock the system from my DAW, and that is essential to me, otherwise I cannot sync layers to record in my DAW... I'll get one soon because I really would like to use the bishop, though it may be for something different because if i have a second cv/gate interface, I can as well just use that to play synced counter melodies which was what I wanted the Bishop for... So I may still sell the Bishop if it is not handy for other stuff
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Also something to keep in mind is the Pro Solo Mk2 (current) model you can simultaneously:
1) Run clocks OR Aux voltage out....
2) CV and Gate outs. and
3) Can select the Midi thru socket to instead be Sync 24 OR a switchable 0V/5V state (Reset).
(Have a read of the manual to make up a suitable cable otherwise Kenton sell pre-made cables for this task)
And then there is the midi syncable LFO on board for the CV or Aux voltage out ......
Hope it helps.
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Next module is on the way... I simply need a pair of LFOs with a nice batch of features and decided on the WMD/SSF ModBox as this has the best features to HP space ratio, and match perfectly with my Ultra-Random Analog, Blender and DPLR... I'm thinking about getting their MiniSlew and ADSRVCA ... well I guess I'm building myself a small "modulation case" consisting probably of just SSF/WMD modules as they are quite feature packed and small in size... Modulation is alfa omega when creating a lot of sounds, but the different brands does not matter that much to me, as long as they are feature packed and small in HP size... that's why I'm thinking about creating a small tabletop case just for modulation modules that will not really be changed that much in the future, leaving the KB37 mainly for tone generators and tone manipulating modules like filters/waveshapers/FX etc.
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I love ModBox. Don't overlook these features:
* Sync - When you're syncing an LFO, values counterclockwise of 12:00 are divisors (1 cycle every 1-16 clock pulses), and values clockwise of 12:00 are multipliers (1-16 cycles every clock pulse).
* Phase - The 120-degree and 240-degree phase outputs are interesting departures from the traditional 90-degree and 180-degree phase. Try mixing these outputs together.
* Volt-per-octave - Both halves of ModBox track v/oct very well, so it's basically another oscillator. The only real caveat here is that it doesn't have a fine tune control, so it takes a bit of patience to tune it.
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I love ModBox. Don't overlook these features:
* Sync - When you're syncing an LFO, values counterclockwise of 12:00 are divisors (1 cycle every 1-16 clock pulses), and values clockwise of 12:00 are multipliers (1-16 cycles every clock pulse).
* Phase - The 120-degree and 240-degree phase outputs are interesting departures from the traditional 90-degree and 180-degree phase. Try mixing these outputs together.
* Volt-per-octave - Both halves of ModBox track v/oct very well, so it's basically another oscillator. The only real caveat here is that it doesn't have a fine tune control, so it takes a bit of patience to tune it.
Thanx for the tips :) .. .it does seem like a good module... I have been trying to find info on the frequency range of the LFO's but could not find any which worried me a bit because I'd like if they could go a bit into Audio territory so that I could use them as audio rate modulators for things, otherwise I may have to find a separate oscillator for this at some point... they do not need to track overly well, though it's nice if they can be tracked via 1v/o to get consistency over the whole keyboad range :)
I also ordered a TipTop audio ONE yesterday... I will need a simple sample player to introdue my recordings from my SONY PCM.D100 recorder, and I chose the ONE instead of Disting mainly because it's a one function per knob kind of module which suits my purpose and workflow-philosophy better... but also because I know it changes the samplerate when changing speed like my Kotelnikov wavetable module does... I prefer this as it avoids aliasing when pitch shifting, also, the ONE can playback 96Khz files which my recorder is able to record... it just seems like a more didicated and solid choice.
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I have been trying to find info on the frequency range of the LFO's but could not find any which worried me a bit because I'd like if they could go a bit into Audio territory so that I could use them as audio rate modulators for things
If you just use the knob, it goes into low audio rates. I use it for audio-rate step-through of Phonogene's Gene Shift trigger, for weird robot noises. But the rate is voltage-controlled on both channels, and will go +/- 5 octaves under CV control at v/oct.
Also: I'll be interested in your thoughts on ONE when it arrives. And also, have you looked into W/ by Whimsical Raps? It's a new tape-style sampler, and it seems to be... weird.
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I have been trying to find info on the frequency range of the LFO's but could not find any which worried me a bit because I'd like if they could go a bit into Audio territory so that I could use them as audio rate modulators for things
If you just use the knob, it goes into low audio rates. I use it for audio-rate step-through of Phonogene's Gene Shift trigger, for weird robot noises. But the rate is voltage-controlled on both channels, and will go +/- 5 octaves under CV control at v/oct.
Also: I'll be interested in your thoughts on ONE when it arrives. And also, have you looked into W/ by Whimsical Raps? It's a new tape-style sampler, and it seems to be... weird.
Yes, I've actually seen that one and read about it, but it's very weirdly explained, so I'm not certain if it's something I could use... i really think they should have dropped that mysterious way of describing it because it confuses more than it educates... but in general I got the impression it's a big tape machine... it could probably be used for lots of fun things, but with ONE I know exactly what I get, and that it has exactly what I feel i need of a sample player module... in general I'm only to use it for playback of large audio files that loop endlessly (recordings of nature, acoustic stuff etc.) so that I can manipulate the sound thru other modules for natural sound FX... that's about it really... being able to modulate pitch was not a big requirement, but it's handy for some things, like audio rate FM etc... other than that It'll be used also to store wavtable audio files for my Kotelnikov wavetable module... seems like the easiest way to get them into the wavetable module.
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Just ordered a MOOG 60HP empty case and a TipTop audio Zeus power module...
Actually my idear was NOT to get more cases, but after working a bit with the ideer of creating a unique setup in the KB37 from the modules I've got (and will get in the future), I find that some modules is more or less mandatory in each and every setup... this is mainly the modulation modules.
Thus I decided to create a MOOG 60HP case with only modulation modules that will not change very often, and only if other modules show up that can replace some of the modules, or have a more narrow HP usage.
This leaves the 107HP in the KB37 to everything else like oscillators, waveshapers, mixers, filters and effects modules.
If I ever want to, I have the space for yet another 60HP MOOG case on the other side of the KB37, but I honestly do not think I'll ever need one there... but it's nice to know it could be done if I wanted to.
The reason for the MOOG case is actually rather simple; it will fit between the monitor and KB37 at each side of my desktop, and the front of the MOOG case is slanted slightly so that the front is not flat and parallel with the tabletop, which is rather important... this is the main reason I did not take another case really.
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https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/656564
Moduar grid link to my new modulation case... including modules I intend on getting later :) ... 6HP left for something I do not yet know...
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https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/656564
Moduar grid link to my new modulation case... including modules I intend on getting later :) ... 6HP left for something I do not yet know...
There's a lot of great things you can do with 6HP. A second Blender might be a good choice in a nice modulation case like this. You can also fit a Boss Bow Tie. I freaking love Boss Bow Tie. A CV switch solves so many logic-related problems, and there's pretty much nothing like it in the hardwired synth world.
Or, you know, leave that 6HP blank for a while and see if anything jumps out at you.
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https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/656564
Moduar grid link to my new modulation case... including modules I intend on getting later :) ... 6HP left for something I do not yet know...
There's a lot of great things you can do with 6HP. A second Blender might be a good choice in a nice modulation case like this. You can also fit a Boss Bow Tie. I freaking love Boss Bow Tie. A CV switch solves so many logic-related problems, and there's pretty much nothing like it in the hardwired synth world.
Or, you know, leave that 6HP blank for a while and see if anything jumps out at you.
The ToolBox in there actually has a switch that is CV controllable... maybe that will do?
But you're right... I'll wait until I find something I feel that I need... I basically took all from SSF/WMD that has to do with modulation, and I can see that i could have a need for those modules in certain cases when it comes to modulation stuff for sure... modulatioin of the audio modules at audio rates is what really intrigues me a lot since it gives so many weird and wonderful timbres for FX and stuff... I'm using my Random module all the time and it keeps on surprising me with it's versatillity and usefullness... even using it's clock output works as a square oscillator that is wonderful for modulating stuff at audio rates, and the random clock output is really something special... I've not even utilized all its potential yet... to me it's the master random module.
here is by the way, a link to my Audio Case.. .it has a few modules I yet have to get... the TRSHMSTR and the uFold...
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/653930
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here is by the way, a link to my Audio Case.. .it has a few modules I yet have to get... the TRSHMSTR and the uFold...
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/653930
Your rack is private, we can't see it yet.
The ToolBox in there actually has a switch that is CV controllable... maybe that will do?
Oh, yeah, there's plenty of stuff you can do with a 2:1 switch. Boss Bow Tie is a 8:1 or 1:8 switch. It can gobble up all of a Tetrapad's outputs and send them all over the place. It's changed the way I think.
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Ahh yes... it was private... it's not anymore... but also I decided to restructure things a bit... I thought that when getting a MOOG case I could as well go for a three-case stand, and then call it the end.
I thought about creating a hardwired setup anyway, so I chose to let the three-case stand hold anything that modulates audio or CV sources, that is; modules that do not produce signals by themselves, but manipulate them instead... filters, waveshapers etc...
Oscillators, LFOs, Envelopes and other modules that actually create signals will be inside the KB37, with the TONESTAR being sort of like the centerpiece in which other tone generators are plugged in...
This setup allow for a great deal of flexibility without getting completely out of hand, and I can see an end to buying stuff when it's all setup...
Reason I chose this is because the ideer of constantly taking modules out and putting them back inside the KB37 is tiresome really, and also it will stress the connectors in the long run. it will also give me a setup with 287HP in the end.
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I thought that when getting a MOOG case I could as well go for a three-case stand, and then call it the end.
I get having one Moog case for eurorack, but by the time you're thinking about three, you should maybe look at a Mantis.
First off, you're looking at (US dollars here) $88 each for the cases, and a µZeus and 2A power supply for each one ($115 for each case) for a total of $609 for 168HP (note that 12HP is wasted in µZeuses). Of course, you could cut holes in all three cases and fish the power through, and get away with one µZeus to keep the price at $379 for 176HP. But this is extruded aluminum and it's going to be a pain in the keister to drill.
But a Mantis is $335 for 208HP, and it's got its own power supply.
There are other options, too, with and without power. Erica makes a nice-looking 168HP skiff without power, Intellijel and Make Noise both make 208HP skiffs with power.
I mention this because my first plan was the triple-Moog. I even had the rack assembly in my possession before I realized what an expensive and awkward solution it was going to be.
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I thought that when getting a MOOG case I could as well go for a three-case stand, and then call it the end.
Its a matter of space... I do not have the width on my desktop for a Mantis case, if I had, I would certainly have done that... There really are no other options spacewise that will suit my requirements...
I know it is more expensive mostly because of the tripple power modules, but I do not need to buy all of the cases and power modules at once... In the long run it will be more expensive, yes, but I can find no cases with about 42-60HP width that is also having the upwards slanting that the MOIG stand offer... If you know of any such case, do not hesitate telling me :)
I get having one Moog case for eurorack, but by the time you're thinking about three, you should maybe look at a Mantis.
First off, you're looking at (US dollars here) $88 each for the cases, and a µZeus and 2A power supply for each one ($115 for each case) for a total of $609 for 168HP (note that 12HP is wasted in µZeuses). Of course, you could cut holes in all three cases and fish the power through, and get away with one µZeus to keep the price at $379 for 176HP. But this is extruded aluminum and it's going to be a pain in the keister to drill.
But a Mantis is $335 for 208HP, and it's got its own power supply.
There are other options, too, with and without power. Erica makes a nice-looking 168HP skiff without power, Intellijel and Make Noise both make 208HP skiffs with power.
I mention this because my first plan was the triple-Moog. I even had the rack assembly in my possession before I realized what an expensive and awkward solution it was going to be.
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Well, you can't bend space, and Moog is unique at 60HP. At least it looks pretty nice in the tiered stand.
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Got the TipTop Audio ONE today, and promised to say what I feel about it...
first... the quality of the playback is really good... 24bit up to 96KHz is definitely hearable compared to the modules working at 12bit output.
One of the nice things is that there is no interpolation going on... no hardwired samplerate... it's the sample rate itself that is changed... this means that the sample data is played back 1:1 ... this also introduce some "aliasing" (in lack of a better word) when playing very slowly simply because the samples play back so much slower and has no interpolation algorithms (it cannot interpolate since the actual sample rate is slowed down... there are no ekstra "sample slots" to interpolate in between... still, it sounds marvelous in my opinion.
There is ONE caveat though that I did not realize until I thought it over... the CV input is NOT 1v/o... the manual states that, but at the same time it say that it is not needed as the module have a quantize mode to give you the 12 equal tempered scales... that made me think that in this mode ONE would track the keyboard, BUT IT DOES NOT! .. .if you think of playing this module from a keyboard, it will NOT fit the 1v/o as the manual state, so many keys play the same note in succession (about 3-4 keys in a row).
ONE was probably made without a keyboard in mind, and more as an audio file player you could use in a modular system without an attached keyboard... you simply choose a pitch, and use ONE to play back a sample in that pitch... if you need to have sequencers or a keyboard play it correctly you would have to use some kind of scaling module to process the 1v/o CV before entering the ONE module.
Luckily for me, I'm not going to be playing this module melodically, otherwise it would have been returned because of this... I need it primarily to play back sampled chords and FX Vocals and Drones for further processing, so being able to just select a quantized pitch is fine with me... when I get a scaler module I might try to see if it's possible to process the CV input for playing it from the keyboard, but it's not an essential requirement for me in any way... the module does exactly what I want from it :) ... if you need such a sample playback device (for drums/FX for example), then it does sound really good, is easy to use as well. And the fact that it can also be used as a complex LFO at very slow rates makes it interesting in this aspect as well...
One thing more though is that it seems that the ONE module play back in "chunks" of 1024 samples (or was it lower? can't remember)... this means, that if you intend on making LFO waveforms or seamless single cycle audio loops with this, you should keep that in mind... they HAVE TO fit in those "windows" of 1024 samples, otherwise you'd get clicks and pops when the thing loops... this is quite easy to do though if you know how to use a sample editing application, so it does not pose a problem for me either. i bet this has to do with the way you read from an SD card... the ONE is playing back samples live by reading from the card, and it will read in banks of sample data, most likely 1024 samples at a time, and for some reason it play these chunks to the end... it's just the way reading from an SD card works... I once wrote assembly code to read from an SD card, and I remember this clearly.
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Hi Guys,
I don't know if this will interest you but the Bela Salt and Salt+ are now available: https://blog.bela.io/2018/05/02/salt-a-programmable-eurorack-syntesizer/
I have both modules ordered, I have a couple of existing Bela setups but getting it in a Eurorack format is a dream come.
They are limited in number so if you want them hurry up.
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I don't know if this will interest you but the Bela Salt and Salt+ are now available: https://blog.bela.io/2018/05/02/salt-a-programmable-eurorack-syntesizer/
That's very cool! There's always part of me that's drawn to this kind of thing. I used to write custom firmware for Mutable Instruments Peaks, and I pushed that thing pretty far before letting it go. I've sort of been looking for another platform on which to revisit my Palimpsest sequencer code, which is basically a sequencer that's programmed via triggers leaving scars on a rolling virtual substrate.
For me, ADDAC's Open Heart Surgery is more compelling because of the hardware angle, but I'm always looking out for programmable modules. Thanks for sharing!
You should start up a thread in the Modular forum to show us what you do with the thing, when you've had some time with it.
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Got the TipTop Audio ONE today, and promised to say what I feel about it...
Thanks for your thoughts on this. Do you find that it's pretty responsive? When you say Go does it Go? In other words, can you use it for pretty tight percussion sequences?
ONE was probably made without a keyboard in mind, and more as an audio file player you could use in a modular system without an attached keyboard... you simply choose a pitch, and use ONE to play back a sample in that pitch... if you need to have sequencers or a keyboard play it correctly you would have to use some kind of scaling module to process the 1v/o CV before entering the ONE module.
This is a good use for the Tetrapad/Boss Bow Tie combination. You can dial in a set of voltages in Tetrapad's Voltages Mode, and then select between the voltages with Boss Bow Tie. This is how I get DSM03 to track melodically.
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I don't know if this will interest you but the Bela Salt and Salt+ are now available: https://blog.bela.io/2018/05/02/salt-a-programmable-eurorack-syntesizer/
That's very cool! There's always part of me that's drawn to this kind of thing. I used to write custom firmware for Mutable Instruments Peaks, and I pushed that thing pretty far before letting it go. I've sort of been looking for another platform on which to revisit my Palimpsest sequencer code, which is basically a sequencer that's programmed via triggers leaving scars on a rolling virtual substrate.
For me, ADDAC's Open Heart Surgery is more compelling because of the hardware angle, but I'm always looking out for programmable modules. Thanks for sharing!
You should start up a thread in the Modular forum to show us what you do with the thing, when you've had some time with it.
Ah, I thought that section was for DSI stuff only. I will stick something there with more info: https://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,2527.msg27354.html#msg27354
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Got the TipTop Audio ONE today, and promised to say what I feel about it...
Thanks for your thoughts on this. Do you find that it's pretty responsive? When you say Go does it Go? In other words, can you use it for pretty tight percussion sequences?
ONE was probably made without a keyboard in mind, and more as an audio file player you could use in a modular system without an attached keyboard... you simply choose a pitch, and use ONE to play back a sample in that pitch... if you need to have sequencers or a keyboard play it correctly you would have to use some kind of scaling module to process the 1v/o CV before entering the ONE module.
This is a good use for the Tetrapad/Boss Bow Tie combination. You can dial in a set of voltages in Tetrapad's Voltages Mode, and then select between the voltages with Boss Bow Tie. This is how I get DSM03 to track melodically.
I've not sequenced it yet... don't even know if I will be using it this way, but when triggering it from the gate output of my KB37 it responds instantly... I can feel no kind of lag or anything... I do know though, that in the manual it states that some of the trigger modes are more responsive than others... but what they mean by that I don't know... yet.
In my case it really does not matter anyway because I'll be using it mainly in loop mode, and will not even trigger it from a gate signal... I'll just fire it from the button on the module... this is because I want to use it as a simple audio file player... I will be playing long looped atmospheres, drones and nature FX from it, leaving it "on", sort of like an oscillator... it's sound will be recorded live while it's output is being manipulated live... so I have no need for extremely low latencies or similar. I can say though, that firing sound from the button works in a not so performance friendly way... if you press the button, the sound is triggered when you RELEASE the button again... but other than that, it works fine :)
I like the module a lot ... it's not going anywhere... i could have gotten a Disting mk4 instead which has a crazy amount of features instead for almost the same price, but for some reason that module does not kick my GAS anymore... mainly because of the convoluted menu system, and because I usually go for one-knob-per-function modules... I was intrigued by it having both sample playback and a wavetable oscillator, but I'd much rather have my Kotelnikov (which I really like too by the way) and ONE in my rack at the same time...
Besides these tone generators, I'm looking to find modules that can fire off some chord progressions easily... until now I've found two that catch my interest, but there are probably others... these are the Telharmonic and Plaits... I might get both, but specifically the Telharmonic has a nice way of controlling chord progressions with just a single CV input... that's pretty interesting... I also need another stand alone analog oscillator, but that will be the Studio Electronics - Slim O... simply because it's the same as in my TONESTAR module, and I'd like the two analog oscillators to be of the same type electronically..
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Well... I thought it over and cancelled the moog case and power order... I see where this is heading, and i do not have the space to continuing a eurorack setup growth... I will stick with my initial plan, only using what can fit in the KB37, having more modules stored to pick from, when making a setup for a project.
When I though about it, what I tried to du when selecting the modules for a project was getting as much variety squeezed in, whick naturally allways left me with the feeling of having to miss something... This let to an urge to expand with more racks, but even then, I get this urge to vary the modules even more... There is no end to this in eurorack.
So i thought it thru really hard, and decided that what i really should do, is create a "synth" for each project... One not meant for doing everything, but a dedicated setup for a purpose, a synth that I could give a name, and with modules specifically chosen to act together in a more hardwired fashion.
Thus I do not need a lot of different oscillators... 1-3 is enough... No need for different filter flavours, one filter is enough like in any standard synth... So it will be a selection of oscillators, a mixer, a filter, a VCA and an FX module... With the usual complement of modulation modules to go along like LFOs, EGs etc.
Each new project will feature a new synth, all with their own strengths and weeknesses... It will also make each project not sound as if coming from the same synth... I will be able to never gro tired of a bigger but static system.
I thus ordered two new filter modules instead, as I feel I need some various filter flavours to work with... Doepfer WASP and SEM filters.
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I get that. I'm a big fan of small systems. It's a totally different philosophy than the common scattershot theory. Keep it small, give it focus, hone the module selection until it's perfect. No need to do everything, even when everything can be done. I love the process of developing that kind of system, but it does take a long time.
The Doepfer SEM is a good choice.
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I get that. I'm a big fan of small systems. It's a totally different philosophy than the common scattershot theory. Keep it small, give it focus, hone the module selection until it's perfect. No need to do everything, even when everything can be done. I love the process of developing that kind of system, but it does take a long time.
The Doepfer SEM is a good choice.
Yeah... I listened to the SEM from Doepfer and found it sounds just as good as any other SEM clone, and it's a lot cheaper than anything else... nothing fancy in design, it just does it's job, and that's fine... you could probably find something that sounds a little better, I don't know, but then again, what is better? ... There are quite a lot of those variable state filters out there, so it would take forever to listen to them all, even more choosing one... It is also often a problem choosing between sound and HP... I like to find them as narrow as possible without sacrificing sound quality... but the Doepfer SEM sounded nice and strong... In general, I wanted a state variable filter because I really do not have any voltage controlled Hipass/Bandpass filter ... I have a bandpass in the Erica Dtech Polyvoks filter... but even if i like that filter, it has so much "character" it generally smash anything you put thru it, into a destroyed mass of grungy, acid screaming sound... I call it "The Flyswatter" ... because that's the aural sensation I get when putting something nice thru it... it's outcoming being the audio equivalent of a smacked fly :D
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The only reason I got rid of my Doepfer SEM is that I wanted a 24dB filter. So among all the filters I had tried (including Doepfer SEM, DSM01 Curtis, Boomstar 4075 ARP, WMD MMF), I kept Ripples. It's 8HP with 24dB and 12dB lowpass outputs, and a 12dB bandpass output. It's also got an internal VCA, like the DSM01.
If you decide that you need a Roland Jupiter style filter, it's nice. But you've got me wondering how the Doepfer A-106-5 would sound in my current system.
I call it "The Flyswatter" ... because that's the aural sensation I get when putting something nice thru it... it's outcoming being the audio equivalent of a smacked fly :D
Heh. That counts me out. I like 'em smooooooth.
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The only reason I got rid of my Doepfer SEM is that I wanted a 24dB filter. So among all the filters I had tried (including Doepfer SEM, DSM01 Curtis, Boomstar 4075 ARP, WMD MMF), I kept Ripples. It's 8HP with 24dB and 12dB lowpass outputs, and a 12dB bandpass output. It's also got an internal VCA, like the DSM01.
If you decide that you need a Roland Jupiter style filter, it's nice. But you've got me wondering how the Doepfer A-106-5 would sound in my current system.
I call it "The Flyswatter" ... because that's the aural sensation I get when putting something nice thru it... it's outcoming being the audio equivalent of a smacked fly :D
Heh. That counts me out. I like 'em smooooooth.
I guess it's also different for each user, what you really need when it comes to filters... in my case I find that the filter is what gives the sound it's special character... I definitely hear the delicate differences, not only between 12 og 24db ones, but also within the same type... thus I want some variety to work with depending on what sound I am after in a given project...
I've always liked filters that have a vintage timbre to them... possibly because I'm a huge Jarre fan of his first albums... ARP is one of my favourite filters, which i know Jarre also used heavilly back then... that muffled warmth takes me back to that era.... this is also why I got the TONESTAR 2600, and I simply love the sound of that filter...
But... I sometimes need a highpass filter as well, especially when synthesizing stuff like snares, hihats and cymbals... they are almost impossible to create without a highpass filter, so a State Variable filter is very useful to me in many situations... but I also like gnarly, distorted and unstable filters for screaming leads and crunchy basslines (probably a left over from my Hardcore Techno days i guess)... so I soon realize that I must have a few different flavours of filters... I'm also very much into the filter I think you or someone else mentioned earlier in my rant thread... it was one modeled over the KORG mini 700... sounds absolutely fantastic.
But then again.. a lot of modules intrigue me... that's the danger of Eurorack land :) ... I've catched eye of the new Mindphazer from Hexinverter too... love it when they cram a lot of features into few HP spaces, and the more wicked stuff you can make with it, the better :)
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I get that. I'm a big fan of small systems. It's a totally different philosophy than the common scattershot theory. Keep it small, give it focus, hone the module selection until it's perfect. No need to do everything, even when everything can be done. I love the process of developing that kind of system, but it does take a long time.
The Doepfer SEM is a good choice.
Yeah... I listened to the SEM from Doepfer and found it sounds just as good as any other SEM clone, and it's a lot cheaper than anything else... nothing fancy in design, it just does it's job, and that's fine... you could probably find something that sounds a little better, I don't know, but then again, what is better? ... There are quite a lot of those variable state filters out there, so it would take forever to listen to them all, even more choosing one... It is also often a problem choosing between sound and HP... I like to find them as narrow as possible without sacrificing sound quality... but the Doepfer SEM sounded nice and strong... In general, I wanted a state variable filter because I really do not have any voltage controlled Hipass/Bandpass filter ... I have a bandpass in the Erica Dtech Polyvoks filter... but even if i like that filter, it has so much "character" it generally smash anything you put thru it, into a destroyed mass of grungy, acid screaming sound... I call it "The Flyswatter" ... because that's the aural sensation I get when putting something nice thru it... it's outcoming being the audio equivalent of a smacked fly :D
The Doepfer SEM filter is pretty good I think, I have a couple of other SEM filters in my Tinysizer and they sound a bit nicer (to me) but not that much difference. I keep thinking of getting a Polyvoks, probably the Elta one: https://www.eltamusic.com/polivoks-filter not eurorack but on the list.
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I get that. I'm a big fan of small systems. It's a totally different philosophy than the common scattershot theory. Keep it small, give it focus, hone the module selection until it's perfect. No need to do everything, even when everything can be done. I love the process of developing that kind of system, but it does take a long time.
The Doepfer SEM is a good choice.
Yeah... I listened to the SEM from Doepfer and found it sounds just as good as any other SEM clone, and it's a lot cheaper than anything else... nothing fancy in design, it just does it's job, and that's fine... you could probably find something that sounds a little better, I don't know, but then again, what is better? ... There are quite a lot of those variable state filters out there, so it would take forever to listen to them all, even more choosing one... It is also often a problem choosing between sound and HP... I like to find them as narrow as possible without sacrificing sound quality... but the Doepfer SEM sounded nice and strong... In general, I wanted a state variable filter because I really do not have any voltage controlled Hipass/Bandpass filter ... I have a bandpass in the Erica Dtech Polyvoks filter... but even if i like that filter, it has so much "character" it generally smash anything you put thru it, into a destroyed mass of grungy, acid screaming sound... I call it "The Flyswatter" ... because that's the aural sensation I get when putting something nice thru it... it's outcoming being the audio equivalent of a smacked fly :D
The Doepfer SEM filter is pretty good I think, I have a couple of other SEM filters in my Tinysizer and they sound a bit nicer (to me) but not that much difference. I keep thinking of getting a Polyvoks, probably the Elta one: https://www.eltamusic.com/polivoks-filter not eurorack but on the list.
The Dtech Polyvoks clone is the only Polyvoks filter I've ever had, so I'm not too familiar with the correctness of it... but one thing is certain... that filter is really hard to tame I feel... no matter how hard I try, I cannot get any booming basstones out of it, just grungyness, distorted screaming and really insane selfoscillation... it's perfect for the ACID genre no doubt, plus more techno inspired stuff... I actually have used it for other purposed like a modulation source for audio rate modulation of other tone generators when using it in self oscillating mode... i feel it works wonders in the higher of the lower register plus in the mid... it will certainly wreck almost anything coming into it... but I like that unpredicatability, it gives lots of fun surprises when experimenting :)
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I know that some of you will be facepalming me now, and with good reason because I've decided to drop Eurorack... the reasons are those that I feared when I ventured into it... I have a VERY hard time not having any serious polyphony... the second reason is those darn presets.
My creativity is destroyed when I have to patch everything over and over again, it's that simple. I really do like the variety in sound you can get, but it takes a lot of modules, and to patch them simply kill my eagerness to compose... also I can see that no matter how many modules I get, there will always be something lacking with a compact system, and I do want a compact solution because I want ease of use... I'm tired of technicalities...
So I'm selling out at the moment... luckilty i did not spend a greater fortune on this, and at least I've tried it out so I know it's not really for me anyway.
I've decided instead, that I'm going back to the Prophet REV2 ... will buy one again in a week or two, and then I will not be buying anything again for a straight 6 months (at least), promising myself that I WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING AGAIN until I've actually done some projects with the REV2... just pure ambient synth music.
When these projects have been done, and those 6 months have passed, I'll know if I miss anything in particular... if not, I'll just stick with the REV2 as my only synth... if I feel I need some digital sound generators for wavetable and FM, I'll buy a Prophet 12 to complement... if I feel I miss some kind of sample oscillator, I'll buy a Prophet X as well... but all in all I'll not buy more than 3 synths... my soundcard allow for 3 stereo analog inputs, and I still want my setup to be compact... three will be enough... maybe even one...
There is no need to try and talk me out of selling the Eurorack stuff... the selling has already begun, and I'm perfectly fine with it... it was nice trying it out, but it's just not for me :)
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I know that some of you will be facepalming me now, and with good reason because I've decided to drop Eurorack... the reasons are those that I feared when I ventured into it... I have a VERY hard time not having any serious polyphony... the second reason is those darn presets.
My creativity is destroyed when I have to patch everything over and over again, it's that simple. I really do like the variety in sound you can get, but it takes a lot of modules, and to patch them simply kill my eagerness to compose... also I can see that no matter how many modules I get, there will always be something lacking with a compact system, and I do want a compact solution because I want ease of use... I'm tired of technicalities...
So I'm selling out at the moment... luckilty i did not spend a greater fortune on this, and at least I've tried it out so I know it's not really for me anyway.
I've decided instead, that I'm going back to the Prophet REV2 ... will buy one again in a week or two, and then I will not be buying anything again for a straight 6 months (at least), promising myself that I WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING AGAIN until I've actually done some projects with the REV2... just pure ambient synth music.
When these projects have been done, and those 6 months have passed, I'll know if I miss anything in particular... if not, I'll just stick with the REV2 as my only synth... if I feel I need some digital sound generators for wavetable and FM, I'll buy a Prophet 12 to complement... if I feel I miss some kind of sample oscillator, I'll buy a Prophet X as well... but all in all I'll not buy more than 3 synths... my soundcard allow for 3 stereo analog inputs, and I still want my setup to be compact... three will be enough... maybe even one...
There is no need to try and talk me out of selling the Eurorack stuff... the selling has already begun, and I'm perfectly fine with it... it was nice trying it out, but it's just not for me :)
I think I'm in the same boat in regards to modular. Synths like the Oberheim TVS and ARP Odyssey or any synth that doesn't have presets I always try and keep relatively standard in set up so that if I need to change a patch it's fairly quick. You could also document stuff with pictures as well.
But pure modular...ugh...my god each set up would eat up so much time that you could spend actually writing or recording. I was looking into modular stuff like the Doepfer A-100 system but I realized that I'd mostly would be using it for background sequences and noise while other stuff played over it. I can achieve the same effect and sounds by a number of other instruments that actually have memory and presets.
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That was quick Razmo ;)
For me eurorack is good for messing around, it’s fun. For useing it to make music it has a severe number of problems.
I have coded up a Roland Supersaw module on the Bela Salt and just spent an hour messing around with it, sequences, different filters etc. Good fun.
It needs polyphony though, so I thought I will just add a simple chord mode mixed out to a eurorack filter, then I thought hang on I could just code up a nice filter for each supersaw and a couple of envelopes, then I need a way of triggering it polyphonically, I’ll just add midi in. Then I realised I’m coding up a bloody synth to sit in the rack just to get polyphony, what’s the point in that!
That to me is the problem with modular gear.
Have you thought of something like the Nord G2, not as much fun as eurorack but a million times more versatile.
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That was quick Razmo ;)
For me eurorack is good for messing around, it’s fun. For useing it to make music it has a severe number of problems.
I have coded up a Roland Supersaw module on the Bela Salt and just spent an hour messing around with it, sequences, different filters etc. Good fun.
It needs polyphony though, so I thought I will just add a simple chord mode mixed out to a eurorack filter, then I thought hang on I could just code up a nice filter for each supersaw and a couple of envelopes, then I need a way of triggering it polyphonically, I’ll just add midi in. Then I realised I’m coding up a bloody synth to sit in the rack just to get polyphony, what’s the point in that!
That to me is the problem with modular gear.
Have you thought of something like the Nord G2, not as much fun as eurorack but a million times more versatile.
That is exactly it... it's not very convenient for making music, and especially not ambient music with loads of pad sounds, chords etc... i should have known it in advance, and that is what I'm still "hitting myself" with... why the hell did I not see this coming!? ... maybe because I thought I'd just supplement the modular with a polysynth... but thinking about it now, I know that if I get one to complement it, I'll slowly but securely stop using the modular, as it is much faster to get a new sound by browsing presets.... yes you may need to tweak them a bit, but that's even faster than patching up every darn track in a composition with a modular... maybe this is also why I see so few modular only demos with actual music in them.
About the Nord Modular... I've had both MicroModular, Modular G1 Keys and Modular G1 rack... they are really really good sounding machines, with huge loads of presets available... But again... patching is the same as on a modular in physical form, except you can save the setups of course... it takes too much time to program it, I know I'll end up using only the available presets which is not what I'm after... the G2 also has a problem in that it's dependent on a USB driver... not ready to start down that road again... Sound Diver that I'm going to use is more than enough for me regarding "old software" :D ... and lastly... I don't want anything 100% digital... Analog and Hybrid is a minimum.
No... I'll start with the REV2... I know it... I've had it... I still have my editor for it... the same goes for the Prophet 12... The REV2 will give me a lot of what I need... I may get a P12 or X to complement, but I will not take that decision until the first 6 months has passed creating loads of presets and making some compositions :)
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I know that some of you will be facepalming me now, and with good reason because I've decided to drop Eurorack... the reasons are those that I feared when I ventured into it... I have a VERY hard time not having any serious polyphony... the second reason is those darn presets.
My creativity is destroyed when I have to patch everything over and over again, it's that simple. I really do like the variety in sound you can get, but it takes a lot of modules, and to patch them simply kill my eagerness to compose... also I can see that no matter how many modules I get, there will always be something lacking with a compact system, and I do want a compact solution because I want ease of use... I'm tired of technicalities...
So I'm selling out at the moment... luckilty i did not spend a greater fortune on this, and at least I've tried it out so I know it's not really for me anyway.
I've decided instead, that I'm going back to the Prophet REV2 ... will buy one again in a week or two, and then I will not be buying anything again for a straight 6 months (at least), promising myself that I WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING AGAIN until I've actually done some projects with the REV2... just pure ambient synth music.
When these projects have been done, and those 6 months have passed, I'll know if I miss anything in particular... if not, I'll just stick with the REV2 as my only synth... if I feel I need some digital sound generators for wavetable and FM, I'll buy a Prophet 12 to complement... if I feel I miss some kind of sample oscillator, I'll buy a Prophet X as well... but all in all I'll not buy more than 3 synths... my soundcard allow for 3 stereo analog inputs, and I still want my setup to be compact... three will be enough... maybe even one...
There is no need to try and talk me out of selling the Eurorack stuff... the selling has already begun, and I'm perfectly fine with it... it was nice trying it out, but it's just not for me :)
I think I'm in the same boat in regards to modular. Synths like the Oberheim TVS and ARP Odyssey or any synth that doesn't have presets I always try and keep relatively standard in set up so that if I need to change a patch it's fairly quick. You could also document stuff with pictures as well.
But pure modular...ugh...my god each set up would eat up so much time that you could spend actually writing or recording. I was looking into modular stuff like the Doepfer A-100 system but I realized that I'd mostly would be using it for background sequences and noise while other stuff played over it. I can achieve the same effect and sounds by a number of other instruments that actually have memory and presets.
Exactly... That is what I found out as well... I can do anything I've been doing with the modular with a REV2, plus I'll get presets and polyphony on top... of course I could patch things up i cannot do exactly the same on the REV2, but soundwise I can do the same... afterall the modular I had was also analog oscillators of the common type, filters, VCAs, LFOs etc... often I ended up with approximately the same signal path anyway... OSC into mixer into filter into VCA... modulated by modulators...
I do accept though, that with a modular system you can get a very personal sound from it, because you can mix and match many different manufacturers together in a patch, and even do some routings you will not find in a synth like REV2, but in the end I'm not after being able to do everything, just a lot within the sound genre I'm trying to do... REV2 will easily do that for me... in fact, the only thing I think I could REALLY benefit from, are sample oscillators (Prophet X), so that I can incorporate voices, real life noises etc... even the P12 is crossing lots of territory with the REV2 ... but the Wavetables, FM and audio rate modulation is what is drawing me back to it.... if it was not for the REV2's FX and analog oscillators, the P12 could have done it without the need for the REV2 ... but I've had the P12 in the past... and I know how it sounds, and I know that the REV2 has a sound that the P12 will not deliver especially in the very high registers.
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. o O ( GAO )
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I've missed your exploration into modular sound design. Your reasons to return sound sound. Sound Paths & Result vs Practicality vs Personal Music Goals = Journey.
Wish you the best.
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Wow Razmo, I love the way you figure all this out and keep experimenting without ever giving up. I really enjoyed reading about your adventures in sound design fairy land. Though I must admit some of the stuff you wrote sounded coming from another planet ;). But that is just my own in-experience coming through.
In your last few posts I did find something I could directly relate to. As a computer professional I seem to "suffer" a bit from what I would call "patch saving angst". Redundancy, backups of backups of backups, and so on is one of my themes in the IT world. So far I only own synths that can save patches to some kind of memory, which I backup of course to my laptop and Dropbox etc. Of course being able to re-produce the sounds exactly as I designed them for a track I wrote years ago can come in very handy (I did surprise my producer already a few times being able to re-produce a sound exactly as I intended and he remembered).
My next purchase though will be a low-risk departure from that. I have a Behringer Neutron on order, as far as I understand this is a nice and relatively cost effective way into some kind of modular experience. I am very interested to see how I (psychologically and emotionally) will deal with a hardware patch-able synth without any backup facility. I could always take a picture of course, but that is not the point.
Sound design for me is an integral part of composing a song. I rarely re-use a patch I created before. I just love to twiddle and dial in new sounds for a particular mood I am creating. For me the time spent in sound design is part of the composing workload :).
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Wow Razmo, I love the way you figure all this out and keep experimenting without ever giving up. I really enjoyed reading about your adventures in sound design fairy land. Though I must admit some of the stuff you wrote sounded coming from another planet ;). But that is just my own in-experience coming through.
In your last few posts I did find something I could directly relate to. As a computer professional I seem to "suffer" a bit from what I would call "patch saving angst". Redundancy, backups of backups of backups, and so on is one of my themes in the IT world. So far I only own synths that can save patches to some kind of memory, which I backup of course to my laptop and Dropbox etc. Of course being able to re-produce the sounds exactly as I designed them for a track I wrote years ago can come in very handy (I did surprise my producer already a few times being able to re-produce a sound exactly as I intended and he remembered).
My next purchase though will be a low-risk departure from that. I have a Behringer Neutron on order, as far as I understand this is a nice and relatively cost effective way into some kind of modular experience. I am very interested to see how I (psychologically and emotionally) will deal with a hardware patch-able synth without any backup facility. I could always take a picture of course, but that is not the point.
Sound design for me is an integral part of composing a song. I rarely re-use a patch I created before. I just love to twiddle and dial in new sounds for a particular mood I am creating. For me the time spent in sound design is part of the composing workload :).
Well, I always used a different approach to sound design, and that may also be why I'm having a problem with eurorack... I allways separated sound design and composing.... the sound design phase I really enjoy, and I like using computer editors with all parameters on the screen at the same time... this way I have a good overview of everything, and I can go into VERY tiny details in perfecting a sound... I could easily use 1-2 hours on a preset this way... i see sound design as an artform in itself, and I never created a specific sound for a specific job... that is why I always need huge amounts of available presets to browse when I'm in the composing phase, otherwise I'll not be able to find a sound that fits the score.
With eurorack, I had really much fun when designing the first sound of a track... I can not create sounds in advance in the modular world, which is both good and bad... sounds become much more tailored to the score, but after the first track has been laid down, I already have ideas for the next track, and want to quickly start playing on top with other sounds, and that's where it gets frustrating because you have to repatch the whole thing and spend too much time getting that sound right... it destroys my intuitiveness.
Then is the problem with chords/pads... these are essential for the style I'm doing... I thought I could do with just using drones or pre-programmed chord progressions from an oscillator module with 3 or more oscillators, but it's not very performance oriented... i miss to be able to play the chord progressions on the keyboard, actually performing them... modular gets a bit too "robotic" when it comes to arrangements of chords.
If I was to still have a small modular system, it would be for one purpose only; experimenting with repeating sequences and drones, and only for recording samples of it, using them in say; a Prophet X at some point, because you do have the ability to produce some interesting sounds that is not possible with standard synths... but that will not likely happen, as it requires a system of at least a decent size to create something interesting. I may very well keep my Waldorf KB37 just for this in the future, but I'd be choosing very different modules in that case, since the sounds I would want to experiment with are very different to what I have in the KB37 right now.
Right now, the only thing I'm trying to figure out is if I should get the REV2 in module or key version... I'd really like to put the KB37 aside, and only have the keys version in front of me for the next 6 months... but then I'd need both the Prophet 12 & X to be module versions if I get them in the future (probably will I think), otherwise I shall keep using the KB37 with a module version, and end with the key-change for when getting the Prophet X ... my problem is that I'm still not sure if the Prophet X will ever be available in a module form, and if it does come out, the interface will definitely be cut down like it was with the P12 module which unfortunately could be bad if it is not 100% fully controllable via SysEx... so the best solution is probably to get a REV2 module, a P12 module, and wait with the switch in keys until I have the money for the Prophet X keys.
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I'm a bit perplexed... when i look at the store where I'm going to buy the REV2 8-voice module, it's actually cheaper to buy the 8-voice version + an expansion option, than bying a 16-voice version to begin with... that's pretty weird really.
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Integrated sound design during creation and philosophy of user presets, has been on my mind lately.
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I know that some of you will be facepalming me now, and with good reason because I've decided to drop Eurorack... the reasons are those that I feared when I ventured into it... I have a VERY hard time not having any serious polyphony... the second reason is those darn presets.
To go entirely modular, you have to be ready to radically change just about everything. I certainly wouldn't do any facepalming, because you gave it a shot and learned a lot by doing it.
I jelled with it only because I adopted a totally different compositional vision, of the kind that modular is in the best position to facilitate. If I hadn't wanted to do that, I'm sure I would have been frustrated. The right tool for the job.
I don't consider time to be that much of an issue. I can wire up a voice to play in just a few seconds. After that, you really have to enjoy the process. If you don't, it's not worth the huge expense involved.
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I know that some of you will be facepalming me now, and with good reason because I've decided to drop Eurorack... the reasons are those that I feared when I ventured into it... I have a VERY hard time not having any serious polyphony... the second reason is those darn presets.
To go entirely modular, you have to be ready to radically change just about everything. I certainly wouldn't do any facepalming, because you gave it a shot and learned a lot by doing it.
I jelled with it only because I adopted a totally different compositional vision, of the kind that modular is in the best position to facilitate. If I hadn't wanted to do that, I'm sure I would have been frustrated. The right tool for the job.
I don't consider time to be that much of an issue. I can wire up a voice to play in just a few seconds. After that, you really have to enjoy the process. If you don't, it's not worth the huge expense involved.
Sure... I just think that my workflow requires the "normal" synthesizer... when I look at many videos of modular systems it seems like people have larger systems than I'm interested in, and they sort of like make the system play everything... in other words, it's doing a lot of voices and FX and other weird stuff, so that you can literally move away from it when you're done, and then it plays by itself, probably even doing generative stuff...
This is not how I work... i record one track at a time via HDD... thus for me, only the first track with a modular is an experiment and fun journey... as soon as I get to the second track, it's like the system does not give me what I need in terms of quick satisfaction... i think I actually see the first track as "sound design", which I actually love, but as soon as I get to the next tracks, i "flip" into composition mode, where I just want to experiment musically and performance wise with a sound already designed... that's where the movie stops for me...
So in general you could say that I COULD use a modular system, but only for the first track where it's fun setting up a sequence or bassline etc... then I'd have to have other "normal" synths to take over in the following... does that make sense?
It does to me... so I could in reality have a small desktop case with modules, just for that initial track, but when i think of it, it's most likely overkill, mainly because the "normal" synths would do the job just as well... when i think of it, this is also how it's been with any other thing I've done... it starts with me going into sound design mode, creating a patch that I like... then I start sequencing something with it, and then comes the lust for putting in more tracks, but these has allways been found browsing thru allready made presets, NOT by sound designing them...
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How about keeping a minimal eurorack setup for the type of sounds you cannot make with a normal synth? LPG's comes to mind. There are plenty of fun stuff out there and you could keep that setup evolving over time for GAS Management (TM) reasons.
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How about keeping a minimal eurorack setup for the type of sounds you cannot make with a normal synth? LPG's comes to mind. There are plenty of fun stuff out there and you could keep that setup evolving over time for GAS Management (TM) reasons.
I do not have any LPG, in fact I do not have that many modules, and not any that does something I could not do with either REV2, P12 or PX, so it would not be keeping a setup, but rather building one.
Such a setup would require a new case by the time I get a PX, as that would make my KB37 redundant... Unless DSI makes a PX module which I do not know yet.
But honestly, I do not think such a small setup will be necessary... Except for one use: A modular FX analog system to run stuff thru... But again... Not essential.
But I think that I'll know along the way, if I'll find a use for a small system.
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How about keeping a minimal eurorack setup for the type of sounds you cannot make with a normal synth? LPG's comes to mind. There are plenty of fun stuff out there and you could keep that setup evolving over time for GAS Management (TM) reasons.
Also, most modules are mono... You do not get many with stereo in, stereo out which limits the use as an FX box unless you get two modules of everything.
There are a few modules I could have a use for that would also allow for some realtime FX tweaking of the DSI synths... Two that comes to mind are TipTop Audio - Z-DSP and MakeNoise - Phonogene... Both are stereo, and offer some unique ways to enhance the signal that would be interesting for Ambient music... Though both are digital, and could as well have been done using a plugin in my DAW... There are also plenty of plugins with the abillity to mangle incomming signals, so again it's a question if maintaining a modular system is practical... It take up space which is actually quite limited in my little studio corner :)
Time will tell..
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Morphagene is the stereo one, while Phonogene was mono.
People do have eurorack effect racks, but these are usually people with eurorack systems in general. A Morphagene by itself could be fun, but it cries for modulation. So you're back on the hamster wheel; there's growth pressure again, just from a different direction.
If I ever give up eurorack, I'd probably get a Pro2 and keep Phonogene and Maths in my little 40HP control case, because those are modules that I think would work particularly well with a Pro2.
But if you don't have a system with much CV, plug-ins would probably be better.
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I do not have any LPG
Chysn have previously recommended this LPG module:
https://youtu.be/oka4ujvCo70
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Morphagene is the stereo one, while Phonogene was mono.
People do have eurorack effect racks, but these are usually people with eurorack systems in general. A Morphagene by itself could be fun, but it cries for modulation. So you're back on the hamster wheel; there's growth pressure again, just from a different direction.
If I ever give up eurorack, I'd probably get a Pro2 and keep Phonogene and Maths in my little 40HP control case, because those are modules that I think would work particularly well with a Pro2.
But if you don't have a system with much CV, plug-ins would probably be better.
Yes... i did mean Morphagene :D thanks for the correction hehe...
And yes... excactly... I'd need modulation for such a module, but as you say; there are plenty of options with plugins, and they also have one really neat advantage: They can be applied to my DAW tracks, and edited and changed whenever i need to... if I record a modular FX system, I'd have to keep making retakes if I later find out I need to change an FX or two... with plugins I can switch them on when I want to, edit them when I want to, and when I'm satisfied, I can simply freeze the track and release all DAW CPU processing power for new tracks... same goes for EQ... this is really important to me... and also, recording huge reverbs into a track means a lot of waiting until the tails have ended, and it just makes things too static.... I like the idear of using the REV2 FX as a sound design tool, but without using delays or reverbs... more or less I want to use the FX section in REV2 as a "modulation FX" section... and have delays and reverbs (ambience FX) as plugins... it gives me the best trade off in both worlds.
So I'll skip modular... I'm 99,9% certain to be honest... I'm listening to some of my few REV2 demos I made when I had the REV2 last time, and I can hear clearly, that this is what I'm after... a REV2 put thru a Valhalla Shimmer Reverb is simply bliss! :)
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I do not have any LPG
Chysn have previously recommended this LPG module:
https://youtu.be/oka4ujvCo70
Sounds wonderful... but I think I'll pass.... besides I've never really understood the mojo around LPGs... I find they're more or less like a mixed VCA and VCF controlled from the same envelope... I know it's not that, and I know they're normally made with a vactrol, but I guess I'd have to try one out to feel the mojo because demoes does make it hard for me to hear what sets them apart...
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I find they're more or less like a mixed VCA and VCF controlled from the same envelope... I know it's not that
Oh, yeah, it is that. You've pretty much got it.
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I thought about getting either a keys or module version of the REV2, and I have decided on, and just ordered a REV2 keys again.
I was really in doubt because I am planning on getting a P12 module and a Prophet X to complement the REV2, and let that be all... initially I thought about keeping the KB37 as a master controller, and then get a REV2 module, mainly because I thought I would wait with the keys until I get the Prophet X... mainly because of the two sliders on it, so that I may control the P12 module with these... but I don't know if it'll be possible, and I'm not sure if I'll ever get a PX because I want to see the specs first, and see other peoples reactions to it...
So it was a hard choice... but I can live without the sliders if needed, and if I do not want the PX anyway, I'll be in a keys dilemma... so I'll just cross my fingers, that Dave decides that also the X will be made as a module like the P12 someday... I have a feeling that it might, and if not... too bad, I can live with something else...
Also, I want to get started, and I'll like to have a compact setup from the get go... I'll have that now... just the REV2 in front of me, and as soon as the KB37 has been sold, I'll have the funds to purchase the voice upgrade which is important.
So it's done... just me and my 16 voice REV2 together for the next 6 months creating heaps of presets (that I will probably start selling somehow)... and then time will tell what purchase comes next... if any... now I just hope my REV2 keys will arrive without any need for exchanging the panel because of faulty encoders :)
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Please don’t take this the wrong way because it is meant as a compliment... but perhaps you should change the name of the thread to “Razmo’s Gear Rant & Saga”
:)
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Please don’t take this the wrong way because it is meant as a compliment... but perhaps you should change the name of the thread to “Razmo’s Gear Rant & Saga”
:)
"Razmo's Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld" as he tries to create a huge ever growing pulsating brain that rules from the centre of the Ultraworld?
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Please don’t take this the wrong way because it is meant as a compliment... but perhaps you should change the name of the thread to “Razmo’s Gear Rant & Saga”
:)
Hehe, I cannot argue with that :D
I'll eventually reach from point A to point B... But the road will be bumpy ... Hell, I think I'm way beyond point B, I'm running out of letters soon :\
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Please don’t take this the wrong way because it is meant as a compliment... but perhaps you should change the name of the thread to “Razmo’s Gear Rant & Saga”
:)
Hehe, I cannot argue with that :D
I'll eventually reach from point A to point B... But the road will be bumpy ... Hell, I think I'm way beyond point B, I'm running out of letters soon :\
I thought perhaps you had come full circle... 2 or 3 times already.
:D
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Everything will come full circle when Razmo changes his avatar to Gollum holding a PER.
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Please don’t take this the wrong way because it is meant as a compliment... but perhaps you should change the name of the thread to “Razmo’s Gear Rant & Saga”
:)
Hehe, I cannot argue with that :D
I'll eventually reach from point A to point B... But the road will be bumpy ... Hell, I think I'm way beyond point B, I'm running out of letters soon :\
I thought perhaps you had come full circle... 2 or 3 times already.
:D
Put in the 4rth dimension into the equation, and I guess we are there :D
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I'm still waiting for Razmo to announce that he's selling all his synths to focus on his puppetry.
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Everything will come full circle when Razmo changes his avatar to Gollum holding a PER.
Erm... I recall I had that once already :D ... but this time it should be REV2... not PER :D
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I'm still waiting for Razmo to announce that he's selling all his synths to focus on his puppetry.
You're going too fast Chysn... i don't even have any synths yet... REV2 won't be here until next week :D
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Everything will come full circle when Razmo changes his avatar to Gollum holding a PER.
Erm... I recall I had that once already :D
I know. That's what I was referring to.
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Skimmed the Prophet X manual, and it seems that it has all the usual SysEx implementations... unfortunately, as allways these days, there are absolutely NO information about what the SysEx strings include... no indexes or anything, so I hope that DSI will be willing to part with this info at some point so that I'll not need to reverse engineer the structure for an editor... also that omission makes it a bit hard to figure out what is included, and how the pointing to used samples is handled... otherwise it looks like a nice piece of gear that I'm certainly thinking about getting... but probably only if it comes as a module s well... a contender is the Waldorf Quantum, but that would also require i module version... I'll just be waiting to see what happens :)
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otherwise it looks like a nice piece of gear that I'm certainly thinking about getting... but probably only if it comes as a module s well... a contender is the Waldorf Quantum, but that would also require i module version... I'll just be waiting to see what happens :)
I wouldn't hold my breath for a module version of both. What's in the PX doesn't really fit into any known DSI module formats. And I also doubt that Waldorf could find a nice UI compromise for a Quantum module.
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otherwise it looks like a nice piece of gear that I'm certainly thinking about getting... but probably only if it comes as a module s well... a contender is the Waldorf Quantum, but that would also require i module version... I'll just be waiting to see what happens :)
I wouldn't hold my breath for a module version of both. What's in the PX doesn't really fit into any known DSI module formats. And I also doubt that Waldorf could find a nice UI compromise for a Quantum module.
I'm not holding my breath ... I just hope it might happen, otherwise I'll have to get a keyboard version at that time, and then try to swap the REV2 keys for a module instead... but right now, I'm just going to focus on the REV2 again... for a loooong time.
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otherwise it looks like a nice piece of gear that I'm certainly thinking about getting... but probably only if it comes as a module s well... a contender is the Waldorf Quantum, but that would also require i module version... I'll just be waiting to see what happens :)
I wouldn't hold my breath for a module version of both. What's in the PX doesn't really fit into any known DSI module formats. And I also doubt that Waldorf could find a nice UI compromise for a Quantum module.
But what is it, specifically, in the Prophet X, that you think will make a module version unlikely? ... in my point of view, the interface is not much different to what is on a Prophet 12 keyboard, except for a few extra displays... the P12 module was possible, and i don't see why such an approach should not be possible? ... the two extra screens information could easily be ported to show on the big OLED display... No sample editing is taking place on the device itself, software handle this on a computer... so I'm currious as to why you think a module version would not happen?
Also, the compact aproach of the P12 module made it A LOT cheaper than the keyboard version, so I actually see a good reason to create a module version of the Prophet X, so that people who do not need the huge interface could get the "engine" in this P12 module format at a much reduced pricepoint... the X is quite expensive so many would love to see this as a module priced about a third lower or something.
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But what is it, specifically, in the Prophet X, that you think will make a module version unlikely? ... in my point of view, the interface is not much different to what is on a Prophet 12 keyboard, except for a few extra displays... the P12 module was possible, and i don't see why such an approach should not be possible? ... the two extra screens information could easily be ported to show on the big OLED display... No sample editing is taking place on the device itself, software handle this on a computer... so I'm currious as to why you think a module version would not happen?
First of all, it needs the 3 displays for this particular concept. Sure it could probably all be done via the main display, but that would take quite a bit of effort. You don't just desolder 2 small displays and be done with it. The according display information would have to get redestributed to the main display. That alone would need additional coding, but it would need even more for the newly designed samples and effects menus. Too much of a hassle.
On top of that, redesigning the control boards for behind the front panel would also be much more of a challenge.
Without disclosing too much: the PX contains more stuff inside than the P12. You couldn't fit it all in the housing of the P12 module. That would be impossible, UI decisions aside.
If at all, a PX module would have to be at least as deep as the P12 module (the PX is about an inch deeper than the P12), and as high and wide as the P-6/OB-6 modules. It would certainly not be anything you could just throw into your backpack, which kind of defies the whole idea of a desktop module these days.
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But what is it, specifically, in the Prophet X, that you think will make a module version unlikely? ... in my point of view, the interface is not much different to what is on a Prophet 12 keyboard, except for a few extra displays... the P12 module was possible, and i don't see why such an approach should not be possible? ... the two extra screens information could easily be ported to show on the big OLED display... No sample editing is taking place on the device itself, software handle this on a computer... so I'm currious as to why you think a module version would not happen?
First of all, it needs the 3 displays for this particular concept. Sure it could probably all be done via the main display, but that would take quite a bit of effort. You don't just desolder 2 small displays and be done with it. The according display information would have to get redestributed to the main display. That alone would need additional coding, but it would need even more for the newly designed samples and effects menus. Too much of a hassle.
On top of that, redesigning the control boards for behind the front panel would also be much more of a challenge.
Without disclosing too much: the PX contains more stuff inside than the P12. You couldn't fit it all in the housing of the P12 module. That would be impossible, UI decisions aside.
If at all, a PX module would have to be at least as deep as the P12 module, and as high and wide as the P-6/OB-6 modules. It would certainly not be anything you could just throw into your backpack
Sure... but there are definitely also different code in the P12 module, since the interface works VERY different to the keys with the lack of all the knobs etc... so sure it will need another specialized OS like the P12 module, but I don't see it as impossible... if they could do this with the P12 module why not the X?
The two displays by the way, are so small that they could easily be included on a module version... also, the later OB6, P6 and REV2 modules show that DSI even put all the controls on a module version...
I don't see why it should not be feasible... I may be wrong, but I'l hope anyway :D
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Sure... but there are definitely also different code in the P12 module, since the interface works VERY different to the keys with the lack of all the knobs etc... so sure it will need another specialized OS like the P12 module, but I don't see it as impossible... if they could do this with the P12 module why not the X?
But the menu structure and the menus are identical in the case of the P12 and the P12 module. You would have to set up new main display menu tabs for the sample engine and the effects section and change the circuit accordingly. It might not be impossible, but definitely more work than in case of the P12 module, or any other module they've done so far for that matter.
The two displays by the way, are so small that they could easily be included on a module version... also, the later OB6, P6 and REV2 modules show that DSI even put all the controls on a module version...
I don't see why it should not be feasible... I may be wrong, but I'l hope anyway :D
If you'd like to put all of the controls of the PX into a module, then the module would be as big as the original front panel minus the keyboard and the touch sliders and wheels. While I'm sure a UI compromise between something the P12 module and the original PX design could probably be found, there's still stuff in the PX that needs a bit more space than the P12 boards.
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Sure... but there are definitely also different code in the P12 module, since the interface works VERY different to the keys with the lack of all the knobs etc... so sure it will need another specialized OS like the P12 module, but I don't see it as impossible... if they could do this with the P12 module why not the X?
But the menu structure and the menus are identical in the case of the P12 and the P12 module. You would have to set up new main display menu tabs for the sample engine and the effects section and change the circuit accordingly. It might not be impossible, but definitely more work than in case of the P12 module, or any other module they've done so far for that matter.
The two displays by the way, are so small that they could easily be included on a module version... also, the later OB6, P6 and REV2 modules show that DSI even put all the controls on a module version...
I don't see why it should not be feasible... I may be wrong, but I'l hope anyway :D
If you'd like to put all of the controls of the PX into a module, then the module would be as big as the original front panel minus the keyboard and the touch sliders and wheels. While I'm sure a UI compromise between something the P12 module and the original PX design could probably be found, there's still stuff in the PX that needs a bit more space than the P12 boards.
Yes... but the P12 also followed the racking specifications, and had rack ears... later models of their modules are wider and if I'm right; also deeper... you have an extra row of controls on the new modules I've noticed, to shrink down on the width, deepening the module instead which does not matter much as the keys are gone...
I'm not familiar enough with the architecture of the engine, and how that would fit into a module version... but I still hope we'll see such a thing in one format or another, because I really do not have space for two keyboards... I am though, puzzling with the idea of using only ONE keyboard synth for a project, which means I might get both the Prophet 12 and Prophet X in keyboard form, thus having the two I'm not using for a project stored on display in my livingroom... mainly because I like the idea of creating a composition using just one synth (for simplicity, and the compact idea)...
because lets face it... it IS possible to do full ambient works with just the REV2 if you want to... especially when each track is recorded in a DAW as layers so that the synth can be reused over and over again... but what I choose only time will tell.... i still like the idea of having those three synths (PX, P12 and REV2), one of them being a keys version. I just wish that the PX would be a module because I do think that it's keys version is a bit steep pricewise... if it could be made in a substancially cheaper module version I'd like that.
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Sure... but there are definitely also different code in the P12 module, since the interface works VERY different to the keys with the lack of all the knobs etc... so sure it will need another specialized OS like the P12 module, but I don't see it as impossible... if they could do this with the P12 module why not the X?
But the menu structure and the menus are identical in the case of the P12 and the P12 module. You would have to set up new main display menu tabs for the sample engine and the effects section and change the circuit accordingly. It might not be impossible, but definitely more work than in case of the P12 module, or any other module they've done so far for that matter.
1 display, 3 buttons. Each button loads the appropriate menu onto the screen. From a programming standpoint, that's not very complicated. And I am pretty sure that DSI could develope a more elegant solution. For example, the Pro2 screen adapts the information displayed in accordance with what knobs are being turned.
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Please don’t take this the wrong way because it is meant as a compliment... but perhaps you should change the name of the thread to “Razmo’s Gear Rant & Saga”
:)
"One after one, by the star-dogged moon,
Too quick for groan or sigh,
Each turned his face with ghastly pang,
And cursed me with his eye." ;)
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Please don’t take this the wrong way because it is meant as a compliment... but perhaps you should change the name of the thread to “Razmo’s Gear Rant & Saga”
:)
"One after one, by the star-dogged moon,
Too quick for groan or sigh,
Each turned his face with ghastly pang,
And cursed me with his eye." ;)
I was thinking the old Viking Sagas of Iceland, but the Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner works.
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Not that I'm considering buying the second synth yet... I won't, but I'm thinking about what to get next, to accompany the REV2... I bet I'll want some digital oscillators providing some extra synthesis features to complement the REV2... Wavetables and FM in particular.
The Prophet 12 is an obvious candidate, but I've had this synth before, and must admit that I found it's digital character a bit flat and harsh, especially when using audio rate modulation. Not that you cannot create good sounds with it, but I'd like some better and faster processed oscillators, and as far as I recall, the P12 did audio rate modulation at about 11KHz.
I think I might go for the Novation PEAK instead... 24 megahertz in frequency regarding the oscillators running on it's FPGA processor... The wavetables sound more interesting having 5 waveforms per table, and the update speed of envelopes and LFO's goes up to 1.6Khz, plus audio rate modulations are in the speed of the FPGA... The oscillators just simply sound much better in my opinion, and the FM and other audio rate modulation does not have this same harshness... then it has got a state variable filter which I miss on the P12, and a lot more distortion options.
On top of that, the build in reverb is gorgeous, and the two other delays are cool as well... all in all it just seems like a sonically better choice right now.
There are a few negatives though... 4 voices less, but that's not so bad... but the dual timbrallity is probably the biggest negative... it does not have the ability to layer two sounds at once which would be nice for more complex pads/drones etc... but I could do these things with the REV2, and even layer the REV2 with the PEAK for this if needed.
So all in all, I think I'll end up with the PEAK when the time comes... it also places itself nicely behind the REV2 in a metal stand so it's easy to reach both...
After this, I'll only be missing sample oscillators... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...
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Not that I'm considering buying the second synth yet... I won't, but I'm thinking about what to get next, to accompany the REV2... I bet I'll want some digital oscillators providing some extra synthesis features to complement the REV2... Wavetables and FM in particular.
The Prophet 12 is an obvious candidate, but I've had this synth before, and must admit that I found it's digital character a bit flat and harsh, especially when using audio rate modulation. Not that you cannot create good sounds with it, but I'd like some better and faster processed oscillators, and as far as I recall, the P12 did audio rate modulation at about 11KHz.
I think I might go for the Novation PEAK instead... 24 megahertz in frequency regarding the oscillators running on it's FPGA processor... The wavetables sound more interesting having 5 waveforms per table, and the update speed of envelopes and LFO's goes up to 1.6Khz, plus audio rate modulations are in the speed of the FPGA... The oscillators just simply sound much better in my opinion, and the FM and other audio rate modulation does not have this same harshness... then it has got a state variable filter which I miss on the P12, and a lot more distortion options.
On top of that, the build in reverb is gorgeous, and the two other delays are cool as well... all in all it just seems like a sonically better choice right now.
There are a few negatives though... 4 voices less, but that's not so bad... but the dual timbrallity is probably the biggest negative... it does not have the ability to layer two sounds at once which would be nice for more complex pads/drones etc... but I could do these things with the REV2, and even layer the REV2 with the PEAK for this if needed.
So all in all, I think I'll end up with the PEAK when the time comes... it also places itself nicely behind the REV2 in a metal stand so it's easy to reach both...
After this, I'll only be missing sample oscillators... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...
As for analog and samples I'd give the PX a good listen. It may make the Rev2 redundant.
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... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...
50 bucks says that statement turns out to not be true...
:)
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Not that I'm considering buying the second synth yet... I won't, but I'm thinking about what to get next, to accompany the REV2... I bet I'll want some digital oscillators providing some extra synthesis features to complement the REV2... Wavetables and FM in particular.
The Prophet 12 is an obvious candidate, but I've had this synth before, and must admit that I found it's digital character a bit flat and harsh, especially when using audio rate modulation. Not that you cannot create good sounds with it, but I'd like some better and faster processed oscillators, and as far as I recall, the P12 did audio rate modulation at about 11KHz.
I think I might go for the Novation PEAK instead... 24 megahertz in frequency regarding the oscillators running on it's FPGA processor... The wavetables sound more interesting having 5 waveforms per table, and the update speed of envelopes and LFO's goes up to 1.6Khz, plus audio rate modulations are in the speed of the FPGA... The oscillators just simply sound much better in my opinion, and the FM and other audio rate modulation does not have this same harshness... then it has got a state variable filter which I miss on the P12, and a lot more distortion options.
On top of that, the build in reverb is gorgeous, and the two other delays are cool as well... all in all it just seems like a sonically better choice right now.
There are a few negatives though... 4 voices less, but that's not so bad... but the dual timbrallity is probably the biggest negative... it does not have the ability to layer two sounds at once which would be nice for more complex pads/drones etc... but I could do these things with the REV2, and even layer the REV2 with the PEAK for this if needed.
So all in all, I think I'll end up with the PEAK when the time comes... it also places itself nicely behind the REV2 in a metal stand so it's easy to reach both...
After this, I'll only be missing sample oscillators... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...
As for analog and samples I'd give the PX a good listen. It may make the Rev2 redundant.
The PX is basically a P12 in my opinion, all oscillators are digital meaning it will not (in my world) make the REV2 redundant, especially at high frequencies and audio rate modulation it will probably sound more digital as the P12... but as I have not listened carefully to the PX yet, I cannot say if you're right or wrong in your statement... If it does make it redundant, that's fine... I'm just not that certain it will.... and when I have the funds for a PX, I'll have made so much material with the REV2, that I would probably not part with it for that sole reason... one thing I need to do is stick with three synths, and really get to know and love them... constantly changing for something "better and newer" will just end in the same old curse I've been under for the last 25+ years... just as I'm beginning to know them, I sell them and get something new and have to start all over again getting to know another synth... So I'm pretty sure I'll stick with the REV2, PEAK and probably PX for the rest of my life... I hope... (you may laugh, but I'm sticking my fingers into my ears! :D )
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The PX is basically a P12 in my opinion, all oscillators are digital meaning it will not (in my world) make the REV2 redundant, especially at high frequencies and audio rate modulation it will probably sound more digital as the P12... but as I have not listened carefully to the PX yet, I cannot say if you're right or wrong in your statement... If it does make it redundant, that's fine... I'm just not that certain it will.... and when I have the funds for a PX, I'll have made so much material with the REV2, that I would probably not part with it for that sole reason... one thing I need to do is stick with three synths, and really get to know and love them... constantly changing for something "better and newer" will just end in the same old curse I've been under for the last 25+ years... just as I'm beginning to know them, I sell them and get something new and have to start all over again getting to know another synth... So I'm pretty sure I'll stick with the REV2, PEAK and probably PX for the rest of my life... I hope... (you may laugh, but I'm sticking my fingers into my ears! :D )
I was just thinking that if you only used the analog waveforms on the PX, then what you'd get would be very close to the Rev2, minus the suboscillator. But of course the filters sound very different.
The PX is not really a P12. Different filters, different oscillator constellation (2x samples + 2x analog waveshapes vs. 4x analog+digital waveshapes that allow for 4OP FM on the P12), different features beyond the oscillator-filter-VCA path (there's no filter feedback, no 4 freely configurable delays, no analog stereo distortion, no pressure sensitive touch sliders, and only 2/5 of the character section on the PX).
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The PX is basically a P12 in my opinion, all oscillators are digital meaning it will not (in my world) make the REV2 redundant, especially at high frequencies and audio rate modulation it will probably sound more digital as the P12... but as I have not listened carefully to the PX yet, I cannot say if you're right or wrong in your statement... If it does make it redundant, that's fine... I'm just not that certain it will.... and when I have the funds for a PX, I'll have made so much material with the REV2, that I would probably not part with it for that sole reason... one thing I need to do is stick with three synths, and really get to know and love them... constantly changing for something "better and newer" will just end in the same old curse I've been under for the last 25+ years... just as I'm beginning to know them, I sell them and get something new and have to start all over again getting to know another synth... So I'm pretty sure I'll stick with the REV2, PEAK and probably PX for the rest of my life... I hope... (you may laugh, but I'm sticking my fingers into my ears! :D )
I was just thinking that if you only used the analog waveforms on the PX, then what you'd get would be very close to the Rev2, minus the suboscillator. But of course the filters sound very different.
The PX is not really a P12. Different filters, different oscillator constellation (2x samples + 2x analog waveshapes vs. 4x analog+digital waveshapes that allow for 4OP FM on the P12), different features beyond the oscillator-filter-VCA path (there's no filter feedback, no 4 freely configurable delays, no analog stereo distortion, no pressure sensitive touch sliders, and only 2/5 of the character section on the PX).
No, they are not the same... I did not intent to give that impression, but the two digital oscillators are sort of a "crippled" two P12 oscillators, and the modulation matrix is also audio rate modulateable, so I definitely see the similarities, and the stuff that was taken from the P12... but it will in no means compete with the P12 in sheer synthesis possibilities, I'm fully aware of that... if it did, I would not have even thought about getting both P12 and PX :) ... but with DSI synths it's like overlapping cirkles... all have something in common with each other but never completely covering each other in any way.
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As a side Issue Razmo, how do you sell your gear, via Ebay or some other means?
I have loads of stuff I want to get rid of but am not very good at selling it!
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As a side Issue Razmo, how do you sell your gear, via Ebay or some other means?
I have loads of stuff I want to get rid of but am not very good at selling it!
I'm selling it in two places where I live (Denmark)... one is a musicians forum, the other a site for used stuff... it's about the only places to sell stuff here in Denmark... I usually sell stuff at about 25% off the new-price if it's still in production, and about 33% off if not... but it depends upon how valuable the devices are... I've been selling for more than 20 years so I'm pretty well accustomed to the used marked... but even then, if you keep selling stuff and buying, in the end, you loose money... more than you'd want to think about... which is also why my GAS and selling-frenzy has to stop... I've lost waaaaay too much money over the years... got a lot of knowledge from owning more than 100 different synths during that time, but other than that...
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Thanks for the info, I need to find somewhere that isn't Ebay I think.
p.s. Where about in Denmark are you? I did work on and off for DR in Copenhagen for many years, nice place.
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Thanks for the info, I need to find somewhere that isn't Ebay I think.
There's Reverb now in the UK and Europe as well. And I would look out for the digital version of what used to be the classified ads section in pre-internet times. Most of those former local ad platforms have a digital equivalent these days.
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Thanks for the info, I need to find somewhere that isn't Ebay I think.
p.s. Where about in Denmark are you? I did work on and off for DR in Copenhagen for many years, nice place.
About 60km from copenhagen... but I'm often in Copenhagen since my girlfriend lives there :) ...DR are our national television station, I know that quite well.
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Yeah yeah... you knew it would eventualy pop up, so here it is: Razmo's Gear Rant Thread :P
There seems to be lacking a forum cattegory in here, where members can post links to music made with DSI gear (and other hardware), like on the "old" forum... so until that has been done (if), this thread will also serve as an outlet for my (un)musical experimentations 8)
I'm currently making a bit of a change in my studio setup because I started doing audio layer recording, instead of live MIDI recording as I've always been doing... I've also started making Ambient music which makes me realize the value of digital synths with loads of FX built in... thus some synths will be leaving my setup, and others take their place in the future... but rest assured... it's NOT any DSI synths that is leaving the building here, not even Tempest ;)
Actualy the Tempest is much more valuable now that I'm recording in audio layers, as I can just record whatever I come up with, without having to think about saving stuff... it makes Tempest very flexible for my usage... I recently added the capability to store whole Beats to my SoundDiver editor which is really nice, because I can browse whole beats by the flick of a key in SoundDiver... much more intuitive than dumping single Sounds all the time... unfortunately, the SysEx format does not allow me to make edits to a Beat in SoundDiver, but that's not essential... I create sounds using my Sounds editor, then dump them one at a time to a Beat on Tempest, and when a kit is done, I just dump it back to SoundDiver from Tempest to save it in my library of Beats.
Here is a little joint adventure (short one) by Tempest and EX5... more Ambient, as this is my genre for the future:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/The_Dragon_and_the_Demon.mp3
Currently I'm trying to sell my Waldorf Microwave (yes the one with analog filters)... I'm trying to get away from old synths, and this one is beginning to annoy me with all of it's quirks... not using it much either, and because it's so circumstancial to get wavetables and waveshapes in and out of this thing... it just has to go.
In the meantime I'm going to save up for a rack version of the Modulus 002 and Hypersynth Xenophone... probably also a Yamaha Reface DX, as I don't have any FM synthesis (real FM synthesis that is). Other than that I don't need much more than something to play samples, but I'll wait until some modern company makes a new hybrid sampler with analog VCF/VCA's (DSI!?) ... I'd like to see Dave's new interpretation af the Wavestation, but with added user sample capabilities in flash 8)
Also recently got a Mackie Big Knob monitor controller... much better routing options because of that one... allows me to have more monitors and a sub connected with individual control.
I recently found out that my subwoofer has serious resonance problems... so I've taken it out of the setup, and to my horror it seems that I've had it way too loud all the time... when I hear the kicks I made on Tempest without it, they suck big time... really thin :-\ ... so I have some redesign to do on those kicks now... I'm getting a new sub at some point, but at least now I can switch it off on the Mackie Big Knob, and test if it sounds good without a sub.
I also began composing Ambient with headphones... to get a better stereo perspective orientation... so things a quite different here these days...
Well... ranting enough for this post... feel free to rant away if you want... it's an "anything goes" thread :)
Just sold two modules today, and have thus ordered the REV2 8-voice upgrade as well... the synth is now going to be complete, even when I start using it... still perplexed though as to why it's cheaper to buy the 8-voice version and upgrade seperately, rather than buying the full 16 voice version.... last time I bought it split, it was the other way around... but I'm not complaining... just wondering...
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still perplexed though as to why it's cheaper to buy the 8-voice version and upgrade seperately, rather than buying the full 16 voice version.... last time I bought it split, it was the other way around... but I'm not complaining... just wondering...
In the U.S., you save $100USD by buying the Rev2 16-voice instead of 8-voice + expansion. I checked some European stores, and the prices for 16-voice Rev2s are about 25% higher than in the U.S., whereas prices for 8-voice Rev2s are only about 15% higher.
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still perplexed though as to why it's cheaper to buy the 8-voice version and upgrade seperately, rather than buying the full 16 voice version.... last time I bought it split, it was the other way around... but I'm not complaining... just wondering...
In the U.S., you save $100USD by buying the Rev2 16-voice instead of 8-voice + expansion. I checked some European stores, and the prices for 16-voice Rev2s are about 25% higher than in the U.S., whereas prices for 8-voice Rev2s are only about 15% higher.
OK... but the funny thing is that it's the exact same store I bought it in, twice... of course you get the work of inserting the option yourself, but normally you would get it cheaper with an option already installed... it must be something about currencies I guess... US is almost always cheaper than buying here in Europe, but with freight, Taxes and all, there is no advantag to buying from overseas...
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OK... but the funny thing is that it's the exact same store I bought it in, twice... of course you get the work of inserting the option yourself, but normally you would get it cheaper with an option already installed... it must be something about currencies I guess... US is almost always cheaper than buying here in Europe, but with freight, Taxes and all, there is no advantag to buying from overseas...
Yeah, it's related to currencies and taxes mostly. In Germany, prices for US products constantly change as well. At times the OB-6 is cheaper than the P-6 while its module version stays more expensive than the P-6 equivalent (probably older stock), or the P12 might get cheaper than the P-6 and OB-6, and so on. And sure, customs duties, import taxes, and sales taxes/VAT will be added to the net price of an imported product. And of course the retailers want a little profit margin here too. In the US you have the advantage of being able to avoid paying sales taxes if you order your product from a retailer that isn't located in your state. And US retailers offer far more and much higher discount deals over the course of a year (like Black Friday deals, etc., which are still a marginal thing in Europe, especially when it comes to consumer electronics—here, you really only get stuff like synths cheaper if they're on a clearance sale). Let's hope the upcoming trade war doesn't make things worse.
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OK... but the funny thing is that it's the exact same store I bought it in, twice... of course you get the work of inserting the option yourself, but normally you would get it cheaper with an option already installed... it must be something about currencies I guess... US is almost always cheaper than buying here in Europe, but with freight, Taxes and all, there is no advantag to buying from overseas...
Yeah, it's related to currencies and taxes mostly. In Germany, prices for US products constantly change as well. At times the OB-6 is cheaper than the P-6 while its module version stays more expensive than the P-6 equivalent (probably older stock), or the P12 might get cheaper than the P-6 and OB-6, and so on. And sure, customs duties, import taxes, and sales taxes/VAT will be added to the net price of an imported product. And of course the retailers want a little profit margin here too. In the US you have the advantage of being able to avoid paying sales taxes if you order your product from a retailer that isn't located in your state. And US retailers offer far more and much higher discount deals over the course of a year (like Black Friday deals, etc., which are still a marginal thing in Europe, especially when it comes to consumer electronics—here, you really only get stuff like synths cheaper if they're on a clearance sale). Let's hope the upcoming trade war doesn't make things worse.
REV2 8-voice keys: 1.444 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2.099 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 629 Euros
REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2.073 Euros
it's not much, 26 Euros but still a better deal.
With the desktop version it's even more... a difference of 172 Euros!
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REV2 8-voice keys: 1.444 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2.099 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 629 Euros
REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2.073 Euros
it's not much, 26 Euros but still a better deal.
With the desktop version it's even more... a difference of 172 Euros!
At Thomann Germany it's similar:
REV2 8-voice keys: 1,423 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2,066 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 619 Euros
REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2,042 Euros => 24 Euros price difference. In the US, you save $99 if you buy the 16-voice version right away.
Also unusual compared to US retail prices: the 16-voice desktop version is only marginally cheaper than the 16-voice keyboard version: 77 Euros. In case of the 8-voice versions, there's a price difference of 149 Euros.
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REV2 8-voice keys: 1.444 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2.099 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 629 Euros
REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2.073 Euros
it's not much, 26 Euros but still a better deal.
With the desktop version it's even more... a difference of 172 Euros!
At Thomann Germany it's similar:
REV2 8-voice keys: 1,423 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2,066 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 619 Euros
REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2,042 Euros => 24 Euros price difference. In the US, you save $99 if you buy the 16-voice version right away.
Also unusual compared to US retail prices: the 16-voice desktop version is only marginally cheaper than the 16-voice keyboard version: 77 Euros.
It's Thomann Denmark I'm refering to... strange that it differ even within the same company just different countries... maybe it's because we're not part of the Euro... don't know
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REV2 8-voice keys: 1.444 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2.099 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 629 Euros
REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2.073 Euros
it's not much, 26 Euros but still a better deal.
With the desktop version it's even more... a difference of 172 Euros!
At Thomann Germany it's similar:
REV2 8-voice keys: 1,423 Euros
REV2 16-voice keys: 2,066 Euros
REV2 8-voice upgrade: 619 Euros
REV2 8-voice keys + 8-voice upgrade: 2,042 Euros => 24 Euros price difference. In the US, you save $99 if you buy the 16-voice version right away.
Also unusual compared to US retail prices: the 16-voice desktop version is only marginally cheaper than the 16-voice keyboard version: 77 Euros.
It's Thomann Denmark I'm refering to... strange that it differ even within the same company just different countries... maybe it's because we're not part of the Euro... don't know
Yes, that and probably different sales taxes. But in general, the price hierarchy of DSI products seems to be completely off over here.
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Not that I'm considering buying the second synth yet... I won't, but I'm thinking about what to get next, to accompany the REV2... I bet I'll want some digital oscillators providing some extra synthesis features to complement the REV2... Wavetables and FM in particular.
The Prophet 12 is an obvious candidate, but I've had this synth before, and must admit that I found it's digital character a bit flat and harsh, especially when using audio rate modulation. Not that you cannot create good sounds with it, but I'd like some better and faster processed oscillators, and as far as I recall, the P12 did audio rate modulation at about 11KHz.
I think I might go for the Novation PEAK instead... 24 megahertz in frequency regarding the oscillators running on it's FPGA processor... The wavetables sound more interesting having 5 waveforms per table, and the update speed of envelopes and LFO's goes up to 1.6Khz, plus audio rate modulations are in the speed of the FPGA... The oscillators just simply sound much better in my opinion, and the FM and other audio rate modulation does not have this same harshness... then it has got a state variable filter which I miss on the P12, and a lot more distortion options.
On top of that, the build in reverb is gorgeous, and the two other delays are cool as well... all in all it just seems like a sonically better choice right now.
There are a few negatives though... 4 voices less, but that's not so bad... but the dual timbrallity is probably the biggest negative... it does not have the ability to layer two sounds at once which would be nice for more complex pads/drones etc... but I could do these things with the REV2, and even layer the REV2 with the PEAK for this if needed.
So all in all, I think I'll end up with the PEAK when the time comes... it also places itself nicely behind the REV2 in a metal stand so it's easy to reach both...
After this, I'll only be missing sample oscillators... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...
Rev2
PX
PolyEvolver + 1 or 2 Racks
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Not that I'm considering buying the second synth yet... I won't, but I'm thinking about what to get next, to accompany the REV2... I bet I'll want some digital oscillators providing some extra synthesis features to complement the REV2... Wavetables and FM in particular.
The Prophet 12 is an obvious candidate, but I've had this synth before, and must admit that I found it's digital character a bit flat and harsh, especially when using audio rate modulation. Not that you cannot create good sounds with it, but I'd like some better and faster processed oscillators, and as far as I recall, the P12 did audio rate modulation at about 11KHz.
I think I might go for the Novation PEAK instead... 24 megahertz in frequency regarding the oscillators running on it's FPGA processor... The wavetables sound more interesting having 5 waveforms per table, and the update speed of envelopes and LFO's goes up to 1.6Khz, plus audio rate modulations are in the speed of the FPGA... The oscillators just simply sound much better in my opinion, and the FM and other audio rate modulation does not have this same harshness... then it has got a state variable filter which I miss on the P12, and a lot more distortion options.
On top of that, the build in reverb is gorgeous, and the two other delays are cool as well... all in all it just seems like a sonically better choice right now.
There are a few negatives though... 4 voices less, but that's not so bad... but the dual timbrallity is probably the biggest negative... it does not have the ability to layer two sounds at once which would be nice for more complex pads/drones etc... but I could do these things with the REV2, and even layer the REV2 with the PEAK for this if needed.
So all in all, I think I'll end up with the PEAK when the time comes... it also places itself nicely behind the REV2 in a metal stand so it's easy to reach both...
After this, I'll only be missing sample oscillators... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...
Rev2
PX
PolyEvolver + 1 or 2 Racks
Evolvers, no thanx because I rely on MIDI SysEx specs that actually work, and there are still unfixed bugs in those... really nice synths yes, but I'd take a P12 over it anytime these days :) ... it'll be a PEAK over P12 though I'm sure...
But I won't be thinking about anything else than the REV2 for 6 months, and who knows what has been made when that time comes? ... maybe there are something that will be more interresting than both P12 and PEAK... :)
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Not that I'm considering buying the second synth yet... I won't, but I'm thinking about what to get next, to accompany the REV2... I bet I'll want some digital oscillators providing some extra synthesis features to complement the REV2... Wavetables and FM in particular.
The Prophet 12 is an obvious candidate, but I've had this synth before, and must admit that I found it's digital character a bit flat and harsh, especially when using audio rate modulation. Not that you cannot create good sounds with it, but I'd like some better and faster processed oscillators, and as far as I recall, the P12 did audio rate modulation at about 11KHz.
I think I might go for the Novation PEAK instead... 24 megahertz in frequency regarding the oscillators running on it's FPGA processor... The wavetables sound more interesting having 5 waveforms per table, and the update speed of envelopes and LFO's goes up to 1.6Khz, plus audio rate modulations are in the speed of the FPGA... The oscillators just simply sound much better in my opinion, and the FM and other audio rate modulation does not have this same harshness... then it has got a state variable filter which I miss on the P12, and a lot more distortion options.
On top of that, the build in reverb is gorgeous, and the two other delays are cool as well... all in all it just seems like a sonically better choice right now.
There are a few negatives though... 4 voices less, but that's not so bad... but the dual timbrallity is probably the biggest negative... it does not have the ability to layer two sounds at once which would be nice for more complex pads/drones etc... but I could do these things with the REV2, and even layer the REV2 with the PEAK for this if needed.
So all in all, I think I'll end up with the PEAK when the time comes... it also places itself nicely behind the REV2 in a metal stand so it's easy to reach both...
After this, I'll only be missing sample oscillators... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...
Rev2
PX
PolyEvolver + 1 or 2 Racks
Evolvers, no thanx because I rely on MIDI SysEx specs that actually work, and there are still unfixed bugs in those...
Oh, what bugs should I be aware of on my PEK? I haven't done a sysex dump on it yet.
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Not that I'm considering buying the second synth yet... I won't, but I'm thinking about what to get next, to accompany the REV2... I bet I'll want some digital oscillators providing some extra synthesis features to complement the REV2... Wavetables and FM in particular.
The Prophet 12 is an obvious candidate, but I've had this synth before, and must admit that I found it's digital character a bit flat and harsh, especially when using audio rate modulation. Not that you cannot create good sounds with it, but I'd like some better and faster processed oscillators, and as far as I recall, the P12 did audio rate modulation at about 11KHz.
I think I might go for the Novation PEAK instead... 24 megahertz in frequency regarding the oscillators running on it's FPGA processor... The wavetables sound more interesting having 5 waveforms per table, and the update speed of envelopes and LFO's goes up to 1.6Khz, plus audio rate modulations are in the speed of the FPGA... The oscillators just simply sound much better in my opinion, and the FM and other audio rate modulation does not have this same harshness... then it has got a state variable filter which I miss on the P12, and a lot more distortion options.
On top of that, the build in reverb is gorgeous, and the two other delays are cool as well... all in all it just seems like a sonically better choice right now.
There are a few negatives though... 4 voices less, but that's not so bad... but the dual timbrallity is probably the biggest negative... it does not have the ability to layer two sounds at once which would be nice for more complex pads/drones etc... but I could do these things with the REV2, and even layer the REV2 with the PEAK for this if needed.
So all in all, I think I'll end up with the PEAK when the time comes... it also places itself nicely behind the REV2 in a metal stand so it's easy to reach both...
After this, I'll only be missing sample oscillators... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...
Rev2
PX
PolyEvolver + 1 or 2 Racks
Evolvers, no thanx because I rely on MIDI SysEx specs that actually work, and there are still unfixed bugs in those...
Oh, what bugs should I be aware of on my PEK? I haven't done a sysex dump on it yet.
None really, if you're just using it for dumping banks... it shows when you're using an editor... there are bugs in the way the Evolvers recieve a dump to the current edit buffer as some parameters are not updated (its mainly to do with BPM and other stuff in the sequencer part) ... so not everyone will notice it.
Another problem (not really a bug) is when you play a sound on a poly version... try playing a soft sound eight times on the highest note.... then play 8 notes on the lowest note in succession, and listen how the first four sound give louder "clicks" in the transients, and then suddenly stops... this is a hardware limitation of the Evolvers because it has to change CVs for pitch and cannot do it fast enough for each voice... you will hear a click for each new voice until all voices has been reset to the new pitch value... this gives some limitations if you want to play soft sounds since you'll hear clicks in the transients depending on how far apart each new note played is from the last time that particular voice was played.
Other than that, the Evolvers are quite cool... you just need to know about those quirks, and for me, doing ambient music with soft pads, those clicks are an annoyance :)
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About 60km from copenhagen
South or south west? . o O ( housing prices )
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About 60km from copenhagen
South or south west? . o O ( housing prices )
Approx. in the middle of Zealand... city: Haslev ;)
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Approx. in the middle of Zealand... city: Haslev ;)
Nice looking provincial town. Never been there. Hope its a good place to stay! :)
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Approx. in the middle of Zealand... city: Haslev ;)
Nice looking provincial town. Never been there. Hope its a good place to stay! :)
It's a good compromise city, when you love nature and also some civilization I'd say... I lived in Gedser previously and also about 10km further up on Falster... loved the nature, but hated the lack of civilization... Most of my family lives near Haslev and Nćstved, so it was natural for me to "return" to my hometown once again...
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It's a good compromise city, when you love nature and also some civilization I'd say... I lived in Gedser previously and also about 10km further up on Falster... loved the nature, but hated the lack of civilization... Most of my family lives near Haslev and Nćstved, so it was natural for me to "return" to my hometown once again...
Sounds like a "good move". ;)
Was about to joke about being close to the civilization given its proximity to a railway station. Being close to nature is a good thing!
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About 60km from copenhagen
South or south west? . o O ( housing prices )
Approx. in the middle of Zealand... city: Haslev ;)
Only a jump away from Superbooth!
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Just saw that the Valkyrie synth has been hijacked by Waldorf, and will be available in 2019 as both rackmount, module and keyboard version... this makes my next purchase even harder because what I really need is a digital oscillator synth, but preferably something with FPGA technology to avoid aliasing and other digital artifacts... It's competitor is the PEAK by Novation, and the Propjet 12 has also been in my consideration, but the more I think about it, I think I'll drop the Prophet 12... it's no FPGA, it has a digital harshness to it when audio rate modulating I'd rather avoid... so I guess the question is if I should go all digital with that machine since I allready will have the REV2 as my analog synth... 128 static voices is killer with this new KYRA synth, and all that FX and 2096 wavetables plus audio rate modulation, FM and all... it seems to be the best solution probably... luckily I'll have another 6 months or more to figure it out :)
Also... the third synth I'm thinking about getting is the Prophet X which has some of the Prophet 12 functionality, so I think that would make a great tripple synth setup: REV2, KYRA and Prophet X... I hardly think I'd be missing anything with these three.
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Just saw that the Valkyrie synth has been hijacked by Waldorf, and will be available in 2019 as both rackmount, module and keyboard version... this makes my next purchase even harder because what I really need is a digital oscillator synth, but preferably something with FPGA technology to avoid aliasing and other digital artifacts... It's competitor is the PEAK by Novation, and the Propjet 12 has also been in my consideration, but the more I think about it, I think I'll drop the Prophet 12... it's no FPGA, it has a digital harshness to it when audio rate modulating I'd rather avoid... so I guess the question is if I should go all digital with that machine since I allready will have the REV2 as my analog synth... 128 static voices is killer with this new KYRA synth, and all that FX and 2096 wavetables plus audio rate modulation, FM and all... it seems to be the best solution probably... luckily I'll have another 6 months or more to figure it out :)
Also... the third synth I'm thinking about getting is the Prophet X which has some of the Prophet 12 functionality, so I think that would make a great tripple synth setup: REV2, KYRA and Prophet X... I hardly think I'd be missing anything with these three.
As a Prophet-12 desktop owner myself, the Prophet X looks like a suitable step forward–plus, you get stereo filters and Prophet VS wave samples, decent onboard effects, etc., long before you consider the built-in soundware!
Thing is, I really don't need another five-octave keyboard (even if I sold off two Emax SEs and a Kawai K3, I'm somewhat constrained for space at the moment), so I'd personally hold out for the module.
The KYRA would make a great Q / Virus successor, but is bound IMHO to create some confusion in the marketplace.
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I actually promised myself to not go 100% digital because i like the sound of analog filters, but the sheer power of that Valkyrie/Kyra and the versatility may be my gamechanger, also because i am not a fan of Waldorf digital sound... The Kyra was done by someone else, but of course I would need to hear it in depth before deciding.
I do believe though, that I may jump on a PEAK first because I really would like to try that one out as it seems to sit comfortably between all the features I'd like... Digital FPGA mixed with analog... I can allways send it back if i run into anything.
Prophet 12 is a good synth, and it has some features that the PEAK does not which does make it a hard choice, but for me, the quality of the audio rate modulation is probably the most important... Analog filters comes next, and then engine depth.
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But I most certainly also hope that the Prophet X will be made in a module format... I too have no space for more than one keyboard, and I chose this to be the REV2...
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But I most certainly also hope that the Prophet X will be made in a module format... I too have no space for more than one keyboard, and I chose this to be the REV2...
Doubtful according to Dave.
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But I most certainly also hope that the Prophet X will be made in a module format... I too have no space for more than one keyboard, and I chose this to be the REV2...
Doubtful according to Dave.
Well... "doubtful" is not a "no" :D ... anyway... if not, in the future I'll just get the keys version, and then exchange my REV2 keys for a REV2 module... so I do have a solution ;) ...
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After some hard thinking, I believe that I'll wait for my next synth to be the Waldorf - Kyra synth... I may as well go completely digital with this one, now that I want digital oscillators... From the few demos I've heard, this thing simply sounds amazing, and the featureset is just as amazing, and being a huge fan of ambient pads, a 128 voice synth like this with 10 oscillators plus audio rate modulation going on, it will kick both P12 and PEAK ass if it's relatively bug free, and have an overall nice sound without aliasing etc... analog filters or not... I've got plenty of anaog filters in my REV2 which will complement it nicely...
With the REV2 and Kyra, the only thing I would need is sampling... but I'm a little in doubt if I would want such a thing mainly because samples usualy become an extra element to give problems when it comes to editing via SysEx etc... I may just chose to create music exclusively with synthesis... not really a problem with ambient...
Also... the Kyra will have a full featured librarian and editor that can be used to create sounds and hold your presets... hell, if this thing sounds really well, and being 8 part multi timbral with all eight streamable to your DAW, this thing could potentially be your only synth needed...
Definitely looking forward to hearing more of this Kyra synth for the rest of this year before launch.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/LullabyBell.mp3
I've started creating presets for my ambient compositions on the REV2... I've promised myself to do at least one sound a day, and this is the first... it's 100% REV2, no external FX, just the build in reverb. It's a preset using Audio Mod on a selfresonating filter so it's important that the REV2 is properly calibrated for it to be in tune.
I also found a use for the "VCA" parameter today that I had not thought about... normaly I found that parameter rather unuseful because it simply turn up the VCA on all voices meaning that in my case, all 16 voices can be heard "ringing" when you increase the VCA... and then it struck me; this is awesome for drones! ... play any harmonic structure you want with 16 keystrokes, and then assign the VCA to the ModWheel and turn it up... you get some really wonderful drones for ambient music, consisting of the frequencies from the last 16 notes you played (8 on an 8 voice REV2 of course)... this is something I'll be using A LOT, and probably assign the VCA to all presets I do to a foot controller... that way, any preset I play I can turn into a haunting drone at any time during the performance :) ... it's almost like you get a "free drone preset" with any preset you use this technique in.... also, the sound you get is actually more or less impossible to create any other way with the REV2... and the cool thing is that all modulations are running at the same time.
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I really like that sound, very beautiful! Have to try it on my Prophet 08, until now my sounds with self oscillating filter + fm have much more annoying high frequency content. ::)
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I really like that sound, very beautiful! Have to try it on my Prophet 08, until now my sounds with self oscillating filter + fm have much more annoying high frequency content. ::)
The trick is to use an envelope on the AudioMod parameter, so that it quickly return to zero audio modulation... it gives it a more controlled sound... there are other things too of course, but that is what I currently remember from the editing.
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Thank you for the hint! Don't know why I didn't try it yet, because that's what I typically would do when creating fm sounds in the digital field (i.e. modulating the fm depth).
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/MoodyStringer.mp3
I made another preset today... it's a weird modulated stringer/organ like sound with lots of motion in "Jarre style".
I think it sounds rather unique, and it's 100% REV2, no external FX was used, it's the raw output from the REV2, as this is what I want with the preset bank I'm doing.
The preset uses two layers panned hard left/right to achieve stereo sound without using the FX engine... the fake reverb is done by modulating the VCA envelope via feedback, not via the internal FX since those are used with the Hipass filter setting... the hipass filter is set at 50/50 mix to turn it into sort of a frequency range booster when resonance is set high and then swept via an LFO... the two layers use different modulation speeds with the LFO's to create a thicker and more twirling sound.
A funny preset that I decided to name "Moody Stringer".
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New Preset for the REV2 made today... I call this "Sea of Saws Pad"... I think the demo below explains that ;) ... nothing but REV2, no external FX.
This was an experiment trying to create a really dense, heavy, swirling pad sound, being able to modulate the cutoff via ModWheel for some performance stuff... the REV2 do not have long reverbs, so this one use very long delays instead, and stereo panned layers for a wide soundstage.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/SeaOfSaws.mp3
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... that will be the last and third synth I'll get...
50 bucks says that statement turns out to not be true...
:)
I'll see your 50, and raise you 5000. ;D Just enough to get a PX.
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New Preset for the REV2 made today... I call this "Sea of Saws Pad"... I think the demo below explains that ;) ... nothing but REV2, no external FX.
... sounds like the opening credits to a sci-fi movie. Great textured sound.
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Interesting demos, Razmo!
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Another preset done today... call it "Ice Lullaby"... this time there is some external reverb (Valhalla Shimmer) simply because I'm using other REV2 effects to create the raw sound... all presets are done to be standalone on a rev2, but some presets simply will not sound like I imagine them without a shimmer reverb, so the bank I'm doing will be a mixture of presets that is fine alone, and some that will need an external reverb... if the rev2 is to be 100% standalone with my banks, then a more advanced FX engine is needed (may I dare say, something the likes of the Deepmind 12) where more than one FX slot is available, and in more than one routing configuration...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/IceLullaby.mp3
One cool thing about the DSI synths (those with two layers) is that it allow for some neat tricks when you can stack two layers that each has their own separate FX engine... I'm using this a lot on my latest presets, and also this one.
The trick is that if the second layer has it's FX MIX parameter turned all wet, and use delays, you can create cool delays that is a bit out of the ordinary... in this demo, I copied layer A to B, but I transposed Layer B up an octave and made other changes to the sound in addition to leaving it's FX MIX at wet with a delay... the result is an echo that play an octave higher than layer A... you can do all sorts of cool things with this... :)
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Another preset done today... call it "Ice Lullaby"... this time there is some external reverb (Valhalla Shimmer) simply because I'm using other REV2 effects to create the raw sound... all presets are done to be standalone on a rev2, but some presets simply will not sound like I imagine them without a shimmer reverb, so the bank I'm doing will be a mixture of presets that is fine alone, and some that will need an external reverb... if the rev2 is to be 100% standalone with my banks, then a more advanced FX engine is needed (may I dare say, something the likes of the Deepmind 12) where more than one FX slot is available, and in more than one routing configuration...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/IceLullaby.mp3 (http://razmo.ziphoid.com/IceLullaby.mp3)
One cool thing about the DSI synths (those with two layers) is that it allow for some neat tricks when you can stack two layers that each has their own separate FX engine... I'm using this a lot on my latest presets, and also this one.
The trick is that if the second layer has it's FX MIX parameter turned all wet, and use delays, you can create cool delays that is a bit out of the ordinary... in this demo, I copied layer A to B, but I transposed Layer B up an octave and made other changes to the sound in addition to leaving it's FX MIX at wet with a delay... the result is an echo that play an octave higher than layer A... you can do all sorts of cool things with this... :)
My favorite so far. I used to do this trick (layered patches that are 100% wet) on the Nord Lead. Sounds really nice here!
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New preset today... this time it was some experimentation that ended in this preset... I had no specific intention when I started out, other than studying the FX section more in detail to know exactly what the different algorithms do, and how they could be exploited :)
I was rather surprised with what I came up with, from a REALLY simple preset... the demo is 100% REV2, no external FX, and the first half is even 16voices (1 layer only), the second half used unison to make the sound even more insane.
The Reverb algorithm, when used 100% wet will turn any string into an almost orchestral string-section that to me sound rather convincing... not 100% (of course, we're dealing with an analog synth here), but very darn close to the orchestral "feel"... this patch is what you play for anyone with a Prophet 8, when they ask you why you like the REV2 more ;)
I'm certainly going to use this trick for a LOT of string presets that need a bit more organic feel to them... I tried it with triangle waveforms too, and it instantly turned into a kind of flute-character church organ like sound, full of deep power and haunting overtones... (will be my next preset today).
This preset sounds so majestic, it instantly reminded me of huge army music for a fantasy movie, so i named the preset "War Strings" :)
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/WarStrings.mp3
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New preset today... this time it was some experimentation that ended in this preset... I had no specific intention when I started out, other than studying the FX section more in detail to know exactly what the different algorithms do, and how they could be exploited :)
I was rather surprised with what I came up with, from a REALLY simple preset... the demo is 100% REV2, no external FX, and the first half is even 16voices (1 layer only), the second half used unison to make the sound even more insane.
The Reverb algorithm, when used 100% wet will turn any string into an almost orchestral string-section that to me sound rather convincing... not 100% (of course, we're dealing with an analog synth here), but very darn close to the orchestral "feel"... this patch is what you play for anyone with a Prophet 8, when they ask you why you like the REV2 more ;)
I'm certainly going to use this trick for a LOT of string presets that need a bit more organic feel to them... I tried it with triangle waveforms too, and it instantly turned into a kind of flute-character church organ like sound, full of deep power and haunting overtones... (will be my next preset today).
This preset sounds so majestic, it instantly reminded me of huge army music for a fantasy movie, so i named the preset "War Strings" :)
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/WarStrings.mp3 (http://razmo.ziphoid.com/WarStrings.mp3)
I really like these types of simple yet effective synth techniques. And you can gets lots of mileage out of them. A few of variations I thought of while reading this:
1) increase your Reverb time and reduce your Reverb mix to 80% wet (or there abouts) — i think that would increase the lushness of your pad while maintaining your attack.
2) Stack mode — Layer A using a short Reverb that is 100%, and Layer B using a long Reverb set to 100%
3) Stack mode — Layer A using a chorus set to 100%, and Layer B using a long Reverb set to 100%.
4) Split mode — Layer A (left side?) a longRelease on the Amp Envelope and Reverb set at 100% for a pad sound, Layer B (right side) Reverb set to 70-80% and a short Amp Envelope Release for melody lines.
The permutations are almost endless with the number of effects and layers available on the Rev2. Keep it up, you’re going to sell me on a Rev2 (which I am resisting because I still have my Prophet 12).
Cheers!
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New preset today... this time it was some experimentation that ended in this preset... I had no specific intention when I started out, other than studying the FX section more in detail to know exactly what the different algorithms do, and how they could be exploited :)
I was rather surprised with what I came up with, from a REALLY simple preset... the demo is 100% REV2, no external FX, and the first half is even 16voices (1 layer only), the second half used unison to make the sound even more insane.
The Reverb algorithm, when used 100% wet will turn any string into an almost orchestral string-section that to me sound rather convincing... not 100% (of course, we're dealing with an analog synth here), but very darn close to the orchestral "feel"... this patch is what you play for anyone with a Prophet 8, when they ask you why you like the REV2 more ;)
I'm certainly going to use this trick for a LOT of string presets that need a bit more organic feel to them... I tried it with triangle waveforms too, and it instantly turned into a kind of flute-character church organ like sound, full of deep power and haunting overtones... (will be my next preset today).
This preset sounds so majestic, it instantly reminded me of huge army music for a fantasy movie, so i named the preset "War Strings" :)
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/WarStrings.mp3 (http://razmo.ziphoid.com/WarStrings.mp3)
I really like these types of simple yet effective synth techniques. And you can gets lots of mileage out of them. A few of variations I thought of while reading this:
1) increase your Reverb time and reduce your Reverb mix to 80% wet (or there abouts) — i think that would increase the lushness of your pad while maintaining your attack.
2) Stack mode — Layer A using a short Reverb that is 100%, and Layer B using a long Reverb set to 100%
3) Stack mode — Layer A using a chorus set to 100%, and Layer B using a long Reverb set to 100%.
4) Split mode — Layer A (left side?) a longRelease on the Amp Envelope and Reverb set at 100% for a pad sound, Layer B (right side) Reverb set to 70-80% and a short Amp Envelope Release for melody lines.
The permutations are almost endless with the number of effects and layers available on the Rev2. Keep it up, you’re going to sell me on a Rev2 (which I am resisting because I still have my Prophet 12).
Cheers!
That is exactly the way i love to do presets... experiment, so I'm fully with you on this one :) ... i often do not go for a specific sound, I'm more interested in experimenting with a certain part of the synth engine to see how I can "squeeze it" ... and from that "playing around" usually comes something unexpected... as with this preset that totally blew me away... i really did not count on such a simple trick to be so effective.
And I have to say, that what really gives the REV2 it's advantage over the Prophet 8 is exactly the FX engine combined with the dual engine... in fact I've now come to the conclusion that this dual layer is more powerful than you would normally expect, which has also made me redicide on my future purchases... I'm not getting a PEAK as it has only one layer... I'll get the P12 again at some point... also the possibility to route modulation to the VCA that effectively raise all 16 voices at the same time is unique to the DSI instruments, and it's a god send for me, when creating really atonal and dense drones (preset example will come later)... I can only dream of what I'll be able to accomplish with a Prophet X... with these three synths I'd have one hell of palette of sounds possible.
Regarding the P12 and REV2... yes... they overlap a great deal, but still, the P12 has a few areas it simply cannot compete with the REV2 and vice versa... the P12 got the audio rate modulation with FM and all, but it does not have the REV2 analog oscillators that are just cleaner, especially in the higher notes, and also the FX engine.
I'll be getting both, that's for sure... but I'll probably get a keys version, and not until I've made at least 128 presets for the REV2 within the next 5-6 months :)
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Made another preset... I call it "Brass Funeral"... it's 100% REV2 again... no external FX used. Just imagine an ancient church with a ghost playing the church organ, and you'll be there ;) ... halfway in the demo below, I'm using the "Drone Trick" which is perfect in almost every case... really easy to do; just route the modwheel to VCA, and you're good to go.
In the background of this organ sound, I used Layer B to create a very faint and eerie howling wind noise... it develops very slowly so it is not so intrusive. The attached picture is what I was looking at while I created the preset... i usually look at a picture for inspiration :)
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/BrassFuneral.mp3
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Cool! Was that a tribute? . o O ( ;) )
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Another preset done today... this time inspired by a picture of a cave with running water :)
100% REV2, no external FX used on this one... took some time to get the synthesized running water good enough (can be heard halfway into the demo).
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/CaveRiver.mp3
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/HarAkir.mp3
Another preset made today... 100% REV2.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/HarAkir.mp3 (http://razmo.ziphoid.com/HarAkir.mp3)
Another preset made today... 100% REV2.
Really Nice preset... you should make a bank of them and sell them.
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Today I made a new preset, and refined some of the earlier ones... I've decided, that since my sounds are so ambient oriented, using the built in reverb just is not really up to standards... I'm pretty picky with reverb, so I decided to create my sounds, using the built in FX, but leaving reverb for an external processor, simply because it usually is just a single reverb, set up for a whole score anyway... too many mixed reverbs can sound too much...
I also decided that I would try not to use stacked mode unless it's really necessary, so that full 16 polyphony is available, which is pretty essential for long pas sounds and atmospheres, so i dissected the ones that had FX on the second layer, and made them stand alone presets... it gives more flexibility to mix and match as I record a score.
I put together a test of two sounds... a new one called "Ethereal Organ" and the running water I already made for my other preset... refined it a bit, and then combined them into this:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/2sounds.mp3
The external reverb is Valhalla Shimmer...
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That was a really nice bit of music. I liked the main patch, the very slow crescendo towards the end, and even the running water sound in the background. Pensive and dreamy, and worth posting on YouTube as is, if you have a channel.
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That was a really nice bit of music. I liked the main patch, the very slow crescendo towards the end, and even the running water sound in the background. Pensive and dreamy, and worth posting on YouTube as is, if you have a channel.
Thank you for the compliment :) ... personally, I'm not perfectly happy with the synthesized running water, but I don't think I'll get much closer with an analog synth anyway... I do have an old YouTube channel, but I've not been using it since I made it especially for the Waldorf contest some years back... maybe it's time to revive it some day.
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Today I made a new preset, and refined some of the earlier ones... I've decided, that since my sounds are so ambient oriented, using the built in reverb just is not really up to standards... I'm pretty picky with reverb, so I decided to create my sounds, using the built in FX, but leaving reverb for an external processor, simply because it usually is just a single reverb, set up for a whole score anyway... too many mixed reverbs can sound too much...
I also decided that I would try not to use stacked mode unless it's really necessary, so that full 16 polyphony is available, which is pretty essential for long pas sounds and atmospheres, so i dissected the ones that had FX on the second layer, and made them stand alone presets... it gives more flexibility to mix and match as I record a score.
I put together a test of two sounds... a new one called "Ethereal Organ" and the running water I already made for my other preset... refined it a bit, and then combined them into this:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/2sounds.mp3
The external reverb is Valhalla Shimmer...
Thank you Razmo, this is a really nice piece, very atmospheric, tense and hauntingly beautiful. Please release it somewhere, someplace, sometime ;)
I agree with you for ambient type stuff I also prefer an external effects processor. Currently I have a Lexicon MX400 hooked up indirectly to the Rev2 and a Boss RV500 directly to the Evolver. I manage to simulate a shimmer reverb by routing one of the layers of the MX400 to the other using my mixing console.
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Today I made a new preset, and refined some of the earlier ones... I've decided, that since my sounds are so ambient oriented, using the built in reverb just is not really up to standards... I'm pretty picky with reverb, so I decided to create my sounds, using the built in FX, but leaving reverb for an external processor, simply because it usually is just a single reverb, set up for a whole score anyway... too many mixed reverbs can sound too much...
I also decided that I would try not to use stacked mode unless it's really necessary, so that full 16 polyphony is available, which is pretty essential for long pas sounds and atmospheres, so i dissected the ones that had FX on the second layer, and made them stand alone presets... it gives more flexibility to mix and match as I record a score.
I put together a test of two sounds... a new one called "Ethereal Organ" and the running water I already made for my other preset... refined it a bit, and then combined them into this:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/2sounds.mp3
The external reverb is Valhalla Shimmer...
Thank you Razmo, this is a really nice piece, very atmospheric, tense and hauntingly beautiful. Please release it somewhere, someplace, sometime ;)
I agree with you for ambient type stuff I also prefer an external effects processor. Currently I have a Lexicon MX400 hooked up indirectly to the Rev2 and a Boss RV500 directly to the Evolver. I manage to simulate a shimmer reverb by routing one of the layers of the MX400 to the other using my mixing console.
I had the MX400 too... I even had a PCM92, but I found that since I'm recording layer-style in my DAW anyway, that it's much more convenient to use plugins... the PCM92 is available in plugin format, and I also use Valhalla Shimmer which I like a lot actually... using this technique, I can tailor a different FX plugin to each track, and when the track is done, I can simply freeze the track and release the CPU processing power for other tracks, and if I want to redo some parameters, I just unfreeze and do the changes.
Still, I try to make the best use of the internal FX of the REV2... it depends on how it sounds... if I feel it sounds good with the internal FX, I use them.... then, if I during composition feel that an external FX would be better, it's not that hard to simply switch off the internal FX on the REV2... point is, that if I am to release these preset banks someday, it's important that they sound as good as possible using just the REV2... then I'll leave the decision about external FX to the user.
The built in reverb is very limited... mostly it's number of parameters, but also it's ranges... i miss a MUCH LONGER decay time, but for giving a sound just a bit of space sense, it's alright.... besides, sometimes a verbed sound, put thru an external reverb will just make the reverb sound even more dense, which may actually be preferred in some cases.
so all in all: I'm trying to make the presets as good as possible... with just the REV2 alone... designing the presets like if I'd only ever have the REV2 alone... I think that is the best way to do it :)
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Today I made a new preset, and refined some of the earlier ones... I've decided, that since my sounds are so ambient oriented, using the built in reverb just is not really up to standards... I'm pretty picky with reverb, so I decided to create my sounds, using the built in FX, but leaving reverb for an external processor, simply because it usually is just a single reverb, set up for a whole score anyway... too many mixed reverbs can sound too much...
I also decided that I would try not to use stacked mode unless it's really necessary, so that full 16 polyphony is available, which is pretty essential for long pas sounds and atmospheres, so i dissected the ones that had FX on the second layer, and made them stand alone presets... it gives more flexibility to mix and match as I record a score.
I put together a test of two sounds... a new one called "Ethereal Organ" and the running water I already made for my other preset... refined it a bit, and then combined them into this:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/2sounds.mp3
The external reverb is Valhalla Shimmer...
Thank you Razmo, this is a really nice piece, very atmospheric, tense and hauntingly beautiful. Please release it somewhere, someplace, sometime ;)
I agree with you for ambient type stuff I also prefer an external effects processor. Currently I have a Lexicon MX400 hooked up indirectly to the Rev2 and a Boss RV500 directly to the Evolver. I manage to simulate a shimmer reverb by routing one of the layers of the MX400 to the other using my mixing console.
I had the MX400 too... I even had a PCM92, but I found that since I'm recording layer-style in my DAW anyway, that it's much more convenient to use plugins... the PCM92 is available in plugin format, and I also use Valhalla Shimmer which I like a lot actually... using this technique, I can tailor a different FX plugin to each track, and when the track is done, I can simply freeze the track and release the CPU processing power for other tracks, and if I want to redo some parameters, I just unfreeze and do the changes.
Still, I try to make the best use of the internal FX of the REV2... it depends on how it sounds... if I feel it sounds good with the internal FX, I use them.... then, if I during composition feel that an external FX would be better, it's not that hard to simply switch off the internal FX on the REV2... point is, that if I am to release these preset banks someday, it's important that they sound as good as possible using just the REV2... then I'll leave the decision about external FX to the user.
The built in reverb is very limited... mostly it's number of parameters, but also it's ranges... i miss a MUCH LONGER decay time, but for giving a sound just a bit of space sense, it's alright.... besides, sometimes a verbed sound, put thru an external reverb will just make the reverb sound even more dense, which may actually be preferred in some cases.
so all in all: I'm trying to make the presets as good as possible... with just the REV2 alone... designing the presets like if I'd only ever have the REV2 alone... I think that is the best way to do it :)
Makes total sense. When you release the sound pack for the Rev2 you can always suggest to the buyer to extend the effects by using plugin processed or out board hardware effects. Count me in, I definitely want to buy when you are ready to release.
Ideally I want my studio setup to be exactly the same when I perform. But I am not that far yet.
My aim is to get away from the computer for composition and performing (in the not to far future). Just use Ubuntu with a real time kernel to record, mix and master.
My current released EP still uses quite a bit of VSTs on Bitwig. In the next few weeks I release my second EP, those tracks have more hardware and less VSTs. At the end of the year I am planning to release my third EP, of which most tracks only have 1 or 2 VST plugins. The third EP will also be my first release featuring the Rev2. In 2019 I want to release my first LP (more than 5 tracks), using only hardware (effects and sounds). Sequencer is still Bitwig. Slowly including the Digitone sequencer in my most recent compositions. Hopefully end of this year computer out - Cirklon in ;-).
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Normally I would also count myself as a 100% hardware guy too... but it's just too comprehensive technically to be that, with how I work... I want to be compact, but a 100% hardware setup would require a mixer, external FX, a harddisk recorder in hardware, and at least ONE synth to record from... it is possible, but the more technicallities I've got, the less focus I get... I can feel it even now that I settled with only the REV2, a pair of speaker, and my DAW... much less cable clutter, very much more streamlines workflow and I get a lot more sounds made right now than ever before... this is for me... ONE synth (with keys) connected directly to my RME AIO soundcard for recording, and using plugins for the FX... it's really all I need...
But I still have gearlust... still got GAS... still drool over new synths... that is an addiction I'll never get rid off, so I'll be purchasing other keyboard synths each half year... I'll just connect one of them on any given time, while the others will be stored away for next time... I aim at making scores that fit about 60 minutes, so I'll be using different keyboard synths thru such a project, just never more than one at a time... might make perhaps 3 minutes with a REV2, then evolve the end of that into the next using say; a Prophet 12... and so on.... the idea is simple: One synth at a time for simplicity, focus and dedication :)
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Normally I would also count myself as a 100% hardware guy too... but it's just too comprehensive technically to be that, with how I work... I want to be compact, but a 100% hardware setup would require a mixer, external FX, a harddisk recorder in hardware, and at least ONE synth to record from... it is possible, but the more technicallities I've got, the less focus I get... I can feel it even now that I settled with only the REV2, a pair of speaker, and my DAW... much less cable clutter, very much more streamlines workflow and I get a lot more sounds made right now than ever before... this is for me... ONE synth (with keys) connected directly to my RME AIO soundcard for recording, and using plugins for the FX... it's really all I need...
But I still have gearlust... still got GAS... still drool over new synths... that is an addiction I'll never get rid off, so I'll be purchasing other keyboard synths each half year... I'll just connect one of them on any given time, while the others will be stored away for next time... I aim at making scores that fit about 60 minutes, so I'll be using different keyboard synths thru such a project, just never more than one at a time... might make perhaps 3 minutes with a REV2, then evolve the end of that into the next using say; a Prophet 12... and so on.... the idea is simple: One synth at a time for simplicity, focus and dedication :)
Ah great such a different approach, nice. I am totally the opposite, working daily with advanced global corporate computer systems I want at home to get "my hands dirty" with buttons, encoders, pots, sliders, flashy LEDs, rack cases and all that jazz.
Sometimes, but not always, it takes a bit longer to get the sounds right and compose a track, but I find it 2000% more satisfactory than working with plugins on a (Windoze or Mac) laptop. Recording 12 or more stereo tracks, especially if I separate the outboard effects, is time consuming. In due course I want to be able to record 12 or more stereo tracks simultaneously. Unfortunately Linux compatible soundcards wih these kind of capabilities are very expensive.
Kind of like dreaming about Klaus Schulze setup in the 70's, surrounded by stacks of electronics :). Happily I have a loving partner, she will restrain my ambitions a bit.
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Normally I would also count myself as a 100% hardware guy too... but it's just too comprehensive technically to be that, with how I work... I want to be compact, but a 100% hardware setup would require a mixer, external FX, a harddisk recorder in hardware, and at least ONE synth to record from... it is possible, but the more technicallities I've got, the less focus I get... I can feel it even now that I settled with only the REV2, a pair of speaker, and my DAW... much less cable clutter, very much more streamlines workflow and I get a lot more sounds made right now than ever before... this is for me... ONE synth (with keys) connected directly to my RME AIO soundcard for recording, and using plugins for the FX... it's really all I need...
But I still have gearlust... still got GAS... still drool over new synths... that is an addiction I'll never get rid off, so I'll be purchasing other keyboard synths each half year... I'll just connect one of them on any given time, while the others will be stored away for next time... I aim at making scores that fit about 60 minutes, so I'll be using different keyboard synths thru such a project, just never more than one at a time... might make perhaps 3 minutes with a REV2, then evolve the end of that into the next using say; a Prophet 12... and so on.... the idea is simple: One synth at a time for simplicity, focus and dedication :)
Ah great such a different approach, nice. I am totally the opposite, working daily with advanced global corporate computer systems I want at home to get "my hands dirty" with buttons, encoders, pots, sliders, flashy LEDs, rack cases and all that jazz.
Sometimes, but not always, it takes a bit longer to get the sounds right and compose a track, but I find it 2000% more satisfactory than working with plugins on a (Windoze or Mac) laptop. Recording 12 or more stereo tracks, especially if I separate the outboard effects, is time consuming. In due course I want to be able to record 12 or more stereo tracks simultaneously. Unfortunately Linux compatible soundcards wih these kind of capabilities are very expensive.
Kind of like dreaming about Klaus Schulze setup in the 70's, surrounded by stacks of electronics :). Happily I have a loving partner, she will restrain my ambitions a bit.
Don't get me wrong... i do want to get away from the computer too... these days I hate programming arrangements... this is what makes my setup a bit different, simply because i need to go as much hardware as possible, and less computer at the same time... I do not "program" arrangements anymore, instead I record a whole track in one go, then switch to the next... actually I could as well have used a multi-track tape recorder, there is no real difference, except for the plugin system... I'm tired of cut/past/move... the reason I chose this setup is because it's both very flexible, but also very compact... i can reuse the same synth as many times as I want this way... thus I only need one really... if it was not for my GAS :)
Actually I've only hooked up the REV2 via MIDI to my computer because I need to program presets using an editor... that is the only thing I'll never be able to accept... programming a synth by it's front panel... I want ALL parameters on the screen at once... other than this, I don't even follow a metronome anymore... i just PLAY and RECORD... and when something must be layered, I follow the rhythm of previously recorded tracks... it's not that hard, especially with ambient music... in fact it makes the scores so much more dynamic because I can speed up and slow down when I want to... nothing is repeated, unless its done live... the compositions is much less static this way, sound much less "programmed".
So in a sense... I understand your urge to go away from the computer... I want the same, I just cannot go 100% hardware because I need the DAW as a recording medium and an FX processor... and when time comes, also mixing and mastering... but all else is hardware.
Actually the only time quantized sequences I'll have will be those that are played by the REV2's internal Arp or Gated/Poly sequencers... no MIDI tracks in the DAW at all...
But with that said... i sure admire Klaus Schultse and all his gear, and his ability to use it... point is, that there is no right or wrong way to make music, the main goal must always be that you actually DO something with what you have... that was my problem for MANY years because I kept on hoarding gear, never having a chance to get to know each instrument deeply before selling it, and buying something new, starting all over again...
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Ra%27sMusicbox.mp3
Another preset today... not even close to what I set out to create, but it ended up with a preset that is quite useable, and also organic sounding... the REV2 still amaze me with the kind of sounds it's capable of making... Name: "Ra's Musicbox" :)
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Very nice sounds you've programmed there—I like them all! Seems like your strategy is working out well.
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Very nice sounds you've programmed there—I like them all! Seems like your strategy is working out well.
Thank you for the compliment :) means a lot! ... and yes... my strategy is working out, though it's hard to resist buying other stuff... but I can see now, that having only one synth and sticking with it for half a years alone, makes me a lot more creative...
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Very nice sounds you've programmed there—I like them all! Seems like your strategy is working out well.
Thank you for the compliment :) means a lot! ... and yes... my strategy is working out, though it's hard to resist buying other stuff... but I can see now, that having only one synth and sticking with it for half a years alone, makes me a lot more creative...
The creativity of limitations.
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Now that I've been creating presets a lot on the REV2 lately, I've come to a confusing conclusion... I really feel that this keyboard synth lacks controllers. I have countless times felt that I needed an assignable knob, a slider or something to assign to a parameter... again and again I have to route several parameters to the same control (modwheel).
Am I the only user that have felt a lack of controller options on the REV2? ... i know they wanted it to be budget, but I as heck cannot understand why they did not throw in at least a pair of assignable controls above the wheels.
With a synth this deep, and a modulation matrix double the amount of the P08, it wonders me they did not include it. Yes... I know I can plug in a pedal, or use a MIDI controller thingy via the DIN input, but it should have been a standard feature on the REV2... I cannot make banks that others are to use, if they do not have those controllers too, so I feel restricted to the default possibilities, otherwise lots of users would not even use the control features... this is also why I'm hesitating to buy a pedal since I'm pretty certain most users don't even have one connected.
I know it makes no difference now that the REV2 is out, I just hope that DSI will read this, and think a little about it for other future products... other synths like the Prophet 12 and Prophet X has touch sliders... really... these should have been included on the REV2 in my opinion...
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... other synths like the Prophet 12 and Prophet X has touch sliders... really... these should have been included on the REV2 in my opinion...
Those touch sliders are pure GENIUS! Two fingers controlling 4 modulators (position and pressure for each one).
Genius.
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... other synths like the Prophet 12 and Prophet X has touch sliders... really... these should have been included on the REV2 in my opinion...
Those touch sliders are pure GENIUS! Two fingers controlling 4 modulators (position and pressure for each one).
Genius.
Only position on the Prophet X, though.
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... other synths like the Prophet 12 and Prophet X has touch sliders... really... these should have been included on the REV2 in my opinion...
Those touch sliders are pure GENIUS! Two fingers controlling 4 modulators (position and pressure for each one).
Genius.
Only position on the Prophet X, though.
Seriously?!?!?
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Now that I've been creating presets a lot on the REV2 lately, I've come to a confusing conclusion... I really feel that this keyboard synth lacks controllers. I have countless times felt that I needed an assignable knob, a slider or something to assign to a parameter... again and again I have to route several parameters to the same control (modwheel).
Am I the only user that have felt a lack of controller options on the REV2? ... i know they wanted it to be budget, but I as heck cannot understand why they did not throw in at least a pair of assignable controls above the wheels.
With a synth this deep, and a modulation matrix double the amount of the P08, it wonders me they did not include it. Yes... I know I can plug in a pedal, or use a MIDI controller thingy via the DIN input, but it should have been a standard feature on the REV2... I cannot make banks that others are to use, if they do not have those controllers too, so I feel restricted to the default possibilities, otherwise lots of users would not even use the control features... this is also why I'm hesitating to buy a pedal since I'm pretty certain most users don't even have one connected.
I know it makes no difference now that the REV2 is out, I just hope that DSI will read this, and think a little about it for other future products... other synths like the Prophet 12 and Prophet X has touch sliders... really... these should have been included on the REV2 in my opinion...
I always found the addition of an expression pedal to be extremely helpful, as it keeps your hands free. That, plus aftertouch, velocity, and the mod wheel can be plenty, depending on how you organize your modulations.
In my Prophet '08 sound set, there are also a couple of mod slots assigned to an expression pedal. I just added a quick note about that and how to re-route it to something else in the PDF I send out with it. So I wouldn't worry about this at all.
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... other synths like the Prophet 12 and Prophet X has touch sliders... really... these should have been included on the REV2 in my opinion...
Those touch sliders are pure GENIUS! Two fingers controlling 4 modulators (position and pressure for each one).
Genius.
Only position on the Prophet X, though.
Seriously?!?!?
Yes. Look at the list of modulation sources.
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Now that I've been creating presets a lot on the REV2 lately, I've come to a confusing conclusion... I really feel that this keyboard synth lacks controllers. I have countless times felt that I needed an assignable knob, a slider or something to assign to a parameter... again and again I have to route several parameters to the same control (modwheel).
Am I the only user that have felt a lack of controller options on the REV2? ... i know they wanted it to be budget, but I as heck cannot understand why they did not throw in at least a pair of assignable controls above the wheels.
With a synth this deep, and a modulation matrix double the amount of the P08, it wonders me they did not include it. Yes... I know I can plug in a pedal, or use a MIDI controller thingy via the DIN input, but it should have been a standard feature on the REV2... I cannot make banks that others are to use, if they do not have those controllers too, so I feel restricted to the default possibilities, otherwise lots of users would not even use the control features... this is also why I'm hesitating to buy a pedal since I'm pretty certain most users don't even have one connected.
I know it makes no difference now that the REV2 is out, I just hope that DSI will read this, and think a little about it for other future products... other synths like the Prophet 12 and Prophet X has touch sliders... really... these should have been included on the REV2 in my opinion...
I always found the addition of an expression pedal to be extremely helpful, as it keeps your hands free. That, plus aftertouch, velocity, and the mod wheel can be plenty, depending on how you organize your modulations.
In my Prophet '08 sound set, there are also a couple of mod slots assigned to an expression pedal. I just added a quick note about that and how to re-route it to something else in the PDF I send out with it. So I wouldn't worry about this at all.
I use all those modulation sources as well, but those i find to be more minded towards other kinds of modulation... all I ever use Aftertouch for is vibrato really because I find the sensitivity way too uncertain to use it for anything else... velocity is always used for the expression when playing light or hard, and is usually for dulling/brightening the sound... so i do not consider them the same type of modulator as the modwheel... even pitchbend is like that too... all of them is not a "set and forget" kind of control like the modwheel...
Many times, I have 2 or 3 parameters that can make a preset sound radically different if I manipulate them... but I only have one control to assign them to (modwheel) ... in my case it has often been cutoff, Audio Mod and an FX parameter or the VCA parameter... if I could assign these parameters to a physical control, I'd be able to get many more variations from a single preset, and even modulate between them in realtime for performance reasons.
I really wonder how many actually use DSI synths with external controllers, unless they use their desktop modules... in the ModMatrix you can use pedal and breath control, but who ever use these!?
Even if I wanted a separate control surface to make those sources available, I'd be hard pressed to find a controller that is not shit loaded with a lot of features I'd never use, and a size I would not accept... I wish I had never sold my Doepfer Pocket Control... that would have been a perfect companion.
But I guess I'll just have to create the presets in a way that the most essential parameter is assigned to the modwheel, and the next one to a pedal which can at least be connected to the REV2, and the last one assigned to Breath Conrol.
Seems I'm going to have to invest in a foot pedal then :)
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Another thing is that DSI never seems to include any MIDI controllers in their Mod Sources... most other synthesizers with a deep engine has the ability to use a few configurable CC controls in the Mod Sources which would be really nice for using with an external controller box, especially when they do not provide any assignable knobs on the front panel.
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Seems I'm going to have to invest in a foot pedal then :)
That'll be a good investment. As soon as one leaves behind the volume or filter pedal paradigm, it easily becomes indispensable. You could also use it to fade in effects, but of course I'm pointing out the obvious. On the other hand I still always find it cool to control more elaborate modulations with my foot, since the standard applications (VCA & filter) are stuck in everybody's head.
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Besides... i might go for something else than a pedal... as it seems you can plug in any kind of CV device... I know that Doepfer makes a Eurorack module with an antenna for a Theremin like kind of modulation... that would be fun, but then again... that is not a set and forget kind of control... still would be fun to try out though :)
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Seems I'm going to have to invest in a foot pedal then :)
There are plenty to choose from: https://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice
How about a cup holder too?
. o O ( ;) ;) ;) )
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Besides... i might go for something else than a pedal... as it seems you can plug in any kind of CV device... I know that Doepfer makes a Eurorack module with an antenna for a Theremin like kind of modulation... that would be fun, but then again... that is not a set and forget kind of control... still would be fun to try out though :)
Or an Expressive E. It feels very nice.
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Besides... i might go for something else than a pedal... as it seems you can plug in any kind of CV device... I know that Doepfer makes a Eurorack module with an antenna for a Theremin like kind of modulation... that would be fun, but then again... that is not a set and forget kind of control... still would be fun to try out though :)
Or an Expressive E. It feels very nice.
Just looked at it and yes... might be fun too... but again... the more arcane the controller, and the more weird it's way of control, the more likely my presets using it will not be for others to enjoy... I think I'll just stick to a simple pedal, and call it the day :) ... most keyboards have a pedal connection, so if (when) I get other keyboard synths later, it would plug right in...
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I just ordered an expression pedal... had to get one now, as I'm currently creating my presets for the REV2... the available models is a bit overwhelming, but I decided it should be one with Jack connectors, and not a build in cable... most cable lengths on the built in ones is a little too short for going behind my table.
I was rocking back and forth between the Moog and Yamaha ones, but the Moog won simply because of the TRS plugs... the Yamaha one did not have that... I already have a foot switch from ages past, one that came with the E-MU E4K keyboard sampler that I won in 1998... reversed polarity though, but the REV2 can handle that, so no need to get another one of these... i do have an input for the sequencer on the REV2, but I don't really see the need for using that.
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The EP-3 works well with DSI synths.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/FaeryNights.mp3
New preset for REV2... "Faery Nights" ... this one use both external reverb and delay as the REV2's internal FX is used for something else. I wanted sort af a "fluttery feel" to the tail of this synth sound that reminds of butterflies/faeries, but with a moody touch.
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I have a couple of those EP3s, they seem like cheep plasticky lightweight pedals that won't last a month but mine have been working for years with no issues at all!
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I have a couple of those EP3s, they seem like cheep plasticky lightweight pedals that won't last a month but mine have been working for years with no issues at all!
It's not one of the most expensive pedals, so I'd assume that they are not as sturdy as the KORG or Yamaha ones which cost considerably more... as long as the sweep range is smooth it'll probably do just fine... never had a foot pedal before, so just had to make a choice :)
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I have a couple of those EP3s, they seem like cheep plasticky lightweight pedals that won't last a month but mine have been working for years with no issues at all!
It's not one of the most expensive pedals, so I'd assume that they are not as sturdy as the KORG or Yamaha ones which cost considerably more... as long as the sweep range is smooth it'll probably do just fine... never had a foot pedal before, so just had to make a choice :)
You’ve made a good choice... I’ve had a couple of these for years... never an issue. And they’ve worked with everything I’ve plugged them into.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/ElusiveSpirit.mp3
A new preset for the REV2... external FX have been used... wanted something with a "ghostly feeling", so I made this and called it "Elusive Ghost".
I deliberately did a trick to make the howling sound pitch down a while after releasing a key to make it sound like something is "moving in the distance"... a normal pitch decay starting right after a key is released only makes it sound wrong, so I had to make the pitch downfall wait some time before starting it's downward "flight"... that makes sure that the sound has already faded a great deal into the distance of the reverb... feel it sounds ok.
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I have a couple of those EP3s, they seem like cheep plasticky lightweight pedals that won't last a month but mine have been working for years with no issues at all!
It's not one of the most expensive pedals, so I'd assume that they are not as sturdy as the KORG or Yamaha ones which cost considerably more... as long as the sweep range is smooth it'll probably do just fine... never had a foot pedal before, so just had to make a choice :)
This stuff always helps: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Performance-White-Lithium-Grease-250ml/dp/B00KPUBO0U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1530511206&sr=8-2&keywords=lithium+grease
I use it on all my pedals, works wonders.
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It's not one of the most expensive pedals, so I'd assume that they are not as sturdy as the KORG or Yamaha ones which cost considerably more... as long as the sweep range is smooth it'll probably do just fine... never had a foot pedal before, so just had to make a choice :)
I use the Yamaha FC-7 and got the Moog EP3 recently. FC-7 has a bigger range, so you can control parameters more precise (helps with smooth filter sweeps). It's bottom side is very flat, so your foot is very close to the ground, whereas with the EP3 your foot sits much higher, which feels less comfortable while playing seated. But the EP3 has switchable polarity, which is a big plus. The FC-7 is not compatible to many keys I have, so I had to build an adapter for those.
By the way: great sounds, I especially like the one called 'Ra's Musicbox'.
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It's not one of the most expensive pedals, so I'd assume that they are not as sturdy as the KORG or Yamaha ones which cost considerably more... as long as the sweep range is smooth it'll probably do just fine... never had a foot pedal before, so just had to make a choice :)
I use the Yamaha FC-7 and got the Moog EP3 recently. FC-7 has a bigger range, so you can control parameters more precise (helps with smooth filter sweeps). It's bottom side is very flat, so your foot is very close to the ground, whereas with the EP3 your foot sits much higher, which feels less comfortable while playing seated. But the EP3 has switchable polarity, which is a big plus. The FC-7 is not compatible to many keys I have, so I had to build an adapter for those.
By the way: great sounds, I especially like the one called 'Ra's Musicbox'.
Thank you for the compliment :) ... I actually read about exactly those things you mentioned... I was close to get the Yamaha pedal because of the longer range, but also because it is closer to the floor so I can rest my heel on the floor... but the cable length was what switched me to the MOOG one... the fact that it sits a bit higher is not a big problem unles I want to use the pedal as a live control... this is not my intention (at least not yet)... my intention was to simply have another control that I can "set and forget" a parameter with... but I guess that with time I'll probably be using it for live stuff too since it gives a nice way to change a control while still playing with both hands... so who knows... might get a Yamaha later if I feel the MOOG pedal sits too high, or I need a bigger range... maybe it's nice to have two different ones with different range for different situations...
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I use the Yamaha FC-7 and got the Moog EP3 recently. FC-7 has a bigger range, so you can control parameters more precise (helps with smooth filter sweeps). It's bottom side is very flat, so your foot is very close to the ground, whereas with the EP3 your foot sits much higher, which feels less comfortable while playing seated. But the EP3 has switchable polarity, which is a big plus. The FC-7 is not compatible to many keys I have, so I had to build an adapter for those.
By the way: great sounds, I especially like the one called 'Ra's Musicbox'.
Thank you for the compliment :) ... I actually read about exactly those things you mentioned... I was close to get the Yamaha pedal because of the longer range, but also because it is closer to the floor so I can rest my heel on the floor... but the cable length was what switched me to the MOOG one... the fact that it sits a bit higher is not a big problem unles I want to use the pedal as a live control... this is not my intention (at least not yet)... my intention was to simply have another control that I can "set and forget" a parameter with... but I guess that with time I'll probably be using it for live stuff too since it gives a nice way to change a control while still playing with both hands... so who knows... might get a Yamaha later if I feel the MOOG pedal sits too high, or I need a bigger range... maybe it's nice to have two different ones with different range for different situations...
Sounds like a reasonable plan and the EP3 seems fine now for your purposes. Another bonus (that you probably know of): the EP3 has also a jack for the cable, so you can easily change it to even longer or much shorter.
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I use the Yamaha FC-7 and got the Moog EP3 recently. FC-7 has a bigger range, so you can control parameters more precise (helps with smooth filter sweeps). It's bottom side is very flat, so your foot is very close to the ground, whereas with the EP3 your foot sits much higher, which feels less comfortable while playing seated. But the EP3 has switchable polarity, which is a big plus. The FC-7 is not compatible to many keys I have, so I had to build an adapter for those.
By the way: great sounds, I especially like the one called 'Ra's Musicbox'.
Thank you for the compliment :) ... I actually read about exactly those things you mentioned... I was close to get the Yamaha pedal because of the longer range, but also because it is closer to the floor so I can rest my heel on the floor... but the cable length was what switched me to the MOOG one... the fact that it sits a bit higher is not a big problem unles I want to use the pedal as a live control... this is not my intention (at least not yet)... my intention was to simply have another control that I can "set and forget" a parameter with... but I guess that with time I'll probably be using it for live stuff too since it gives a nice way to change a control while still playing with both hands... so who knows... might get a Yamaha later if I feel the MOOG pedal sits too high, or I need a bigger range... maybe it's nice to have two different ones with different range for different situations...
Sounds like a reasonable plan and the EP3 seems fine now for your purposes. Another bonus (that you probably know of): the EP3 has also a jack for the cable, so you can easily change it to even longer or much shorter.
Yup... that was the tipping point for me in choosing the MOOG pedal :)
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Gemstones.mp3
This is an effects preset, trying to create a sound that will fit a picture showing crystals/gems... external reverb used, other than that it's just REV2 creating some "glitter" for you :)
I'm using a lot of time conjuring up new tricks every time I create a new preset... I wan't to find as many cool tricks as possible, and the more I create, the more I realize how f****** important that second layer really is! ... this is also why my next synths will be Prophet 12 and Prophet X because they both have this dual layer capability which is so darn important to make the sounds much more advanced... you don't really see it until you start using it and understand how the two layers can interact with each other... it's not just layering, it's much more than that.
this is also the first preset to utilize my new foot pedal... I control the rate of the "glitter" with it, and Modwheel controlls the timbre of the "glassy feel".
One trick i'd like to try out soon is to have this preset on layer B, and a pad/synth sound on layer A, but in a way where the sound on layer A is heard when you hold a key down, but as you release it and start it's release phase, layer B should be slowly faded in making the "tails" of the sound "sparkle"... this is one of the things you can only do with a dual layer synth... it may not be needed for simple sounds like basses etc. but for synth sounds and pads it is really rather cool.
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Another preset derived from the previous one, and this one really made my jaw drop! ... I cannot find a picture to match this sound... it sounds like a bunch of ghost monkeys howling... a timbre I definitely did not expect from the REV2. Only the reverb is external...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/DeadMonkeys.mp3
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Preset number 23... "Faery Flutter" ... sound and picture sort of speaks for itself.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/FaeryFlutter.mp3
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You've got some really gorgeous sounds out of that instrument.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/FaeryDust.mp3
The sound of Faeries, Pixies and Sprites ... REV2 + external reverb :)
After I've got my pedal I'm thinking how the h... I've been able to live without one for the last 25+ years... I'm using it constantly now, and it allow my presets to be extremely much more flexible and dynamic... being able to control something while still using both hands on the keys are really useful... I'll be as blunt as to say, that I like this control more than the Modwheel now :) ... sounds that used static settings before, like LFO rates for example, give so much better results if such parameters can be controlled live.
This means that my presets will rely HEAVILY on the physical controls of the REV2, including the foot pedal input... my presets are meant to be tweaked in realtime to sound their best, they are meant to be PLAYED :)
Right now I wish I could get a wireless breath controller that could go directly into the MIDI input of the REV2... that would be the ultimate extra control really...
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Truly great patches and soundscapes Razmo. Hearing them really inspires me to get more out of my own Rev2. I also very much appreciate your comments about the foot pedal. Such a small addition at relatively low cost sounds like a great investment.
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A new REV2 sound... I'm trying to replicate the four elements, and have done both Water, Wind and Fire now... the hardest one to do is probably Earth...
Here is a preset representing fire, called "Fire Elemental":
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/FireElemental.mp3
No external FX, just the crackling and rumblings of fire... pedal acts like if you blew air at a burning fire, or the folly effect of a fantasy fire elemental getting aggressive :)
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A new REV2 sound... I'm trying to replicate the four elements, and have done both Water, Wind and Fire now... the hardest one to do is probably Earth...
Here is a preset representing fire, called "Fire Elemental":
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/FireElemental.mp3 (http://razmo.ziphoid.com/FireElemental.mp3)
No external FX, just the crackling and rumblings of fire... pedal acts like if you blew air at a burning fire, or the folly effect of a fantasy fire elemental getting aggressive :)
Great work... You're firing on all cylinders now!
::)
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Truly great patches and soundscapes Razmo. Hearing them really inspires me to get more out of my own Rev2. I also very much appreciate your comments about the foot pedal. Such a small addition at relatively low cost sounds like a great investment.
Thank you for the compliment :) ... you can very well dive into your REV2... it's capable of more than you'd think :) ... and yes... a pedal... at first I thought it would be hard to properly tweak something with my foot, making it unprecise and jumpy, but that is definitely not the case... at least not with this MOOG pedal... I'm actually beginning to wish that the REV2 had two foot pedal inputs, so I could control something with both feet while still have my hands on the keys/wheels :)
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A new REV2 sound... I'm trying to replicate the four elements, and have done both Water, Wind and Fire now... the hardest one to do is probably Earth...
Here is a preset representing fire, called "Fire Elemental":
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/FireElemental.mp3 (http://razmo.ziphoid.com/FireElemental.mp3)
No external FX, just the crackling and rumblings of fire... pedal acts like if you blew air at a burning fire, or the folly effect of a fantasy fire elemental getting aggressive :)
Great work... You're firing on all cylinders now!
::)
Thank you ... and yes, you could say that :D
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Here is the Air and Water elementals... nothing but 100% REV2 here:
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/AirElemental.mp3
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/WaterElemental.mp3
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Truly great patches and soundscapes Razmo. Hearing them really inspires me to get more out of my own Rev2. I also very much appreciate your comments about the foot pedal. Such a small addition at relatively low cost sounds like a great investment.
Thank you for the compliment :) ... you can very well dive into your REV2... it's capable of more than you'd think :) ... and yes... a pedal... at first I thought it would be hard to properly tweak something with my foot, making it unprecise and jumpy, but that is definitely not the case... at least not with this MOOG pedal... I'm actually beginning to wish that the REV2 had two foot pedal inputs, so I could control something with both feet while still have my hands on the keys/wheels :)
I am really grateful you publish your sound files. It provides me with a great learning exercise. Knowing what is possible just using the Rev2 + outboard effects and then figuring out for myself how to reverse engineer your sounds is cool. Learning is always a lot of fun, going through the patch sheets created by shiihs also helps a lot.
The amazing thing that happens is that I rarely re-create a similar sounding patch as yours, but discover whole new audio territory. I might start doing the same as you and put small mp3s on my site.
Most of the time I am working on a track, decide on the chords/note combinations, then I program patches to go and work with the track on different synths. Sometimes I work the other way around. I create a few patches and write a song around that sound set.
By the way my second EP was published on Spotify/iTunes etc. last Monday! Feels great, childhood dream come true.
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Right now I wish I could get a wireless breath controller that could go directly into the MIDI input of the REV2... that would be the ultimate extra control really...
If you like a more complex and expensive foot controller solution then KMI SoftStep 2 looks quite interesting:
https://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/softstep/
https://www.thomann.de/dk/keith_mcmillen_softstep_2.htm
It does take some time to program though. Disclaimer: I don't have one myself but its on my GAS List (TM).
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Right now I wish I could get a wireless breath controller that could go directly into the MIDI input of the REV2... that would be the ultimate extra control really...
If you like a more complex and expensive foot controller solution then KMI SoftStep 2 looks quite interesting:
https://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/softstep/
https://www.thomann.de/dk/keith_mcmillen_softstep_2.htm
It does take some time to program though. Disclaimer: I don't have one myself but its on my GAS List (TM).
Havent seen this... but I do not think this is for me... the pads are too small, and I'd have to be looking at the device while using it to make sure I hit the right pad with my foot... if it had been laid out in another physical way it might have been interesting if it has direct MIDI connection possible, since it would have been a great way to include control for any keyboard synth that has more MIDI CC controller reception than it has physical controls... Someone ought to create a device that would interface expression pedals (lets say 4 or 8 pedals), and then convert those to MIDI... if such a device was available I'd most likely get one.
Now that I think of it... i could easily create such a device using a simple PIC MCU... the PIC I've got has up to 10 ADCs onboard, and also a Serial device for MIDI I/O... it would be nothing more than connecting the pedal to the ADCs, as they are basically just a simple pot, and the MIDI code would be dead simple to make, even in assembly language. 10 pedals could be connected, and each made to send a specific CC# out via MIDI on any of 16 MIDI channels.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Dreams.mp3
Here is two new presets for the REV2... Dreamscape and Dreampulse... Valhalla Shimmer used for reverb, otherwise just REV2 :)
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Two new sounds for the REV2... these are a bit on the moody side.
Moon Harp & Skeleton Dulcimer
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/TwoSounds.mp3
I've now done 32 presets... that's only 25% of a full bank... it certainly takes time...
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Two new sounds for the REV2... these are a bit on the moody side.
Moon Harp & Skeleton Dulcimer
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/TwoSounds.mp3
I've now done 32 presets... that's only 25% of a full bank... it certainly takes time...
Fantastic!
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Right now I wish I could get a wireless breath controller that could go directly into the MIDI input of the REV2... that would be the ultimate extra control really...
Would this work for you?
http://pandamidi.com/midibeam/
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Right now I wish I could get a wireless breath controller that could go directly into the MIDI input of the REV2... that would be the ultimate extra control really...
Would this work for you?
http://pandamidi.com/midibeam/
It's a cool thing for what it does... unfortunately, the reason i want a breath controller to be wireless is that it's a pain to wear a headset like on the BC3, or others that have long chords running from the device... so this midibeam device will not solve that problem I'm afraid... I guess such a breath controller would have to be specifically made for a wireless connection somehow...
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Right now I wish I could get a wireless breath controller that could go directly into the MIDI input of the REV2... that would be the ultimate extra control really...
Would this work for you?
http://pandamidi.com/midibeam/
It's a cool thing for what it does... unfortunately, the reason i want a breath controller to be wireless is that it's a pain to wear a headset like on the BC3, or others that have long chords running from the device... so this midibeam device will not solve that problem I'm afraid... I guess such a breath controller would have to be specifically made for a wireless connection somehow...
I wonder if it’s something Panda Midi could make, given there doesn’t seem to be any competitor, incorporating their wireless technology into it.
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Right now I wish I could get a wireless breath controller that could go directly into the MIDI input of the REV2... that would be the ultimate extra control really...
Would this work for you?
http://pandamidi.com/midibeam/
It's a cool thing for what it does... unfortunately, the reason i want a breath controller to be wireless is that it's a pain to wear a headset like on the BC3, or others that have long chords running from the device... so this midibeam device will not solve that problem I'm afraid... I guess such a breath controller would have to be specifically made for a wireless connection somehow...
I wonder if it’s something Panda Midi could make, given there doesn’t seem to be any competitor, incorporating their wireless technology into it.
Would be cool if they could because to me, a small device with batteries, the size of a whistle, with wireless transmission to a receiver-dongle with a MIDI output would be absolutely cool... I hate it when you have to wear a headset for it and cables you only get entangled in...
They can make USB receivers for computer mice... it could be basically the same except that the transmitter should be a breath controller...
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/REV2.mp3
Link above is to a short demo of a few of my programs playing together... the demo is actually REV2 playing all by itself... no external FX was used... I wanted to see how satisfied I'd be if I only used the REV2's own built in FX.
And I've come to the conclusion, that it's really well capable of standing its own... at least for my usage... i know that many do not like it's reverb, but I've learned to actually like it as it is... you can make it sound quite ok, especially when you use layer tricks... usually the problem is a lack of modulation in the reverb algorithms, but using layer B you can actually "cheat" the reverb... if you was a lush reverb, then you need to have a bit of vibrato on the main dry sound... that is what makes the reverb sound less sterile, and more lush... but in many cases you do not want this so it must be done in another way... I simply copy Layer A to B, and set Layer B's FX Mix parameter to 100%... this way i only get the reverb from layer B... after this you can add some vibrato to Layer B's sound via normal LFO modulation... this way, the dry sound is playing from layer A with no vibrato, and layer B is doing the reverb 100% wet on layer B's sound with vibrato...
Why not just use external FX? ... because i actually like to tailor an FX specifically to a program... i like the idea that it's part of the program... so I'm strongly considering not using external FX in the future... also, if I am to create banks of programs to sell, the programs would have to stand on their own, and sound their best possible... it also simplifies using my DAW... I will only be using it to record the tracks and play them together... that's it...
With time I'll be getting more synths, and thus those would have to have internal FX as well... but I'm in no hurry to get any... I'm really fine with using just the REV2 at the moment... I'm learning A HELL OF A LOT about sound design these days... more than I have ever been because I only have this one synth to focus on... I want to be a "REV2 Master Ninja!" before i get anything else.
I do have a few synths on the list for the future now though... Prophet X is probably my "most wanted" and the one I'm now saving up for... by the end of 2018 it should be in my grasp, and at that time I will have created at least one full bank of presets for the REV2 and consider myself "REV2 graduated" :)
I've currently done about 40 programs, and I'm constantly revising them... I work with them in a rather special way... at first I try to create a program using only Layer A, without any FX, and making it sound as good as i can... that way I'm sure that even without FX added, it will sound as good as possible dry, and will have all 16 voices available in polyphony... next I add layer A FX to taste... now with that done the user can choose to stack Layer B on top, which will usually add a significant amount of depth to the sound, adding most of the ambience and stereo perspective to the sound... this way, if the user prefer external FX, they can switch off stack mode, and have full polyphony.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/REV2.mp3
I'm getting a 404 there.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/REV2.mp3
I'm getting a 404 there.
Yes... i took it down again as i found it sounded like shit really... it sometimes do when you've messed with it too long :D ... I'll replace the file after having done another version...
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/CelestialChoir.mp3
... I know it's not perfect, I know it's a little dark and I know it's a bit grungy.... but still... this is the best I have been able to get to a formant/choir like sound with the REV2 yet... I may learn new tricks in the future, but as a pad sound I think it's ok as it is.... in fact the dark nature of the sound can be an advantage, since it will not eat up all the frequency spectrum so that other instruments can fill out the top end, and even the low end... because it sounds a bit band-passed... whihc it actually also is because of two things: 1. The cutoff needs to be quite low for the resonance to kick in the formants, and the reverb which i use to create the choir-ambience is set to take out some low end to make it less boomy/boxy... the reverb is 100% wet... that is the major trick to getting sounds that feel "orchestral/ensemble" like in nature... so... filter acts as a lowpass, and FX acts as a hipass.... equals: bandpass :D
100% REV2 by the way... no external FX
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Excellent ! I thought about angelo badalamenti, david lynch universe when I've listen to it.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/CelestialChoir.mp3 (http://razmo.ziphoid.com/CelestialChoir.mp3)
........100% REV2 by the way... no external FX
I like it a lot -- seems to sound like it should be a part of a sci-fi sound track.
These really are commercial quality programming. Keep up the good work!
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Thanx for the compliments :) ... here are a few tests i did with some bass sounds I'm working on... Basses specifically for ambient music is a bit difficult because you usually do not use basses in the normal way we think of a "bass sound"... many times it's just low rumblings or pads... even other synth sounds... but i do want some bass programs as well, as they may prove useful...
I'm often hearing people complain about the Curtis filter that DSI use is too thin sounding... to a degree I agree that it could present more lowend automatically... it does sound kind of bland to be honest, so my goal is of course to make people wonder how I got that sound out of the REV2's "puny filters"... to be honest, it's not easy... getting a really fat and juicy resonating bass sound needs some serious tweaking in my opinion... otherwise they always sound a bit "velvet'ish" and polished... further we have to understand that the Curtis chip does not give you any means of overdriving the oscillators when they enter the filter, or even the Amp stages... you can only add the usual DSI analog distortion AFTER the chip, like on the Prophet 12, so getting really gritty and gnarly basstones is hard with the REV2... i really wish DSI had given the REV2 the analog feedback option that they gave their Mopho and Tetra synths... for some strange reason DSI decided to omit this on the REV2... big mistake in my opinion... it would also have made the REV2 into a Tetra compatible synth.
The following demo have a few presets I'm pleased with... especially the first two, where I really think I got a lot of bottom end and bubly resonance out of the Curtis chip... it's not just a simple manipulation of the filter... the RingMod FX actually play a part in obtaining this almost "MOOG'ish gut" like sound... but I'm perfectly satisfied with these sounds when it comes to bass on REV2.
The live playing is nothing special... just a few notes to show the sounds...
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/BassTest.mp3
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Another bass program made... rather 90's techno bass I'd say... still an ok bass sound out of the REV2 i think :)
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/BassTest2.mp3
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Another attempt at creating a pad sound that has a certain choral tone to it... creating realistic vocal tones with a simple analog subtractive synth is not the easiest, and at best it sounds "voice like"... better at certain parts of the keyboard as well...
I'm not going to try and create anything realistic though... just trying to get a tonal character that sound vocal like to boost pad sounds into sounding a bit more organic... thus the sound in this demo also seems to shift in and out of sounding voice.like, and then suddenly sounding more synth/organ like at times... that's just the nature of it I guess... true choral sounds will have to wait for when I get a Prophet X :)
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/AngelicLament.mp3
All is 100% REV2...
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I've been doing a lot af touch up on the current programs for my REV2 bank for a while... they are getting more and more polished... I think they are actually better now, but I'm a long way from having a bank of programs... a few programs have been deleted since I did not find that they lived up to the quality i want, so right now I'm at 37 programs.
The latest addition is a program called "Avian Forest"... demo here: http://razmo.ziphoid.com/AvianForest.mp3
There have been used a Valhalla - VintageVerb plugin on top... not that it does not sound good without, it just give that little extra "fairy tale sound" :)
I feel i get better and better at sound design, especially pad sounds that I've not really specialized in... I've done a lot of sound design over the years, but never something as focused as I'm doing now... that was mostly kick drums and basses plus a few lead sounds.
What I've learned is that the most important to get really nice moving pad sounds is not really the FX or even the polyphony... the most important is to get the raw oscillator and panning right... the more motion you can get into the oscillators the better, and the more you can control this movement with physical controls, the more your sound will come alive as it will not be static... you can constantly evolve the sound with modwheel and pedal controls... velocity and aftertouch as well... One thing I also realised is, that in many cases you don't even need the second oscillator... in many cases it's actually better to just use one, and modulate the hell out of it... the tone gets much cleaner... i think this is because, in real life, many acoustic instrument also use only ONE sound source... even if a guitar has six strings, they play harmonies, not the same pitch... if you have too many soundsources in a single voice, then playing it polyphonically can easily start mudding the sound... the program comes to life anyway as soon as you start playing more notes together... at least with pad sounds as they usually take up a great deal of space in the frequency spectrum... also, if you only have a single pitch on a voice, then you can choose to play only on high notes, and then bass and midtone sill still be free for other sounds... these programs can really be many different types of sound... if they are played very low, they can sound dark and moody, in the highs they are fine and unobtrusive, in the middle they fill out a melody nicely but will leave the bass and trebble areas alone... and if you play them all over, they can take over the whole stage almost doing the whole show on its own.
well... just a bit of rambling... i like the REV2 as a pad machine... seriously! :)
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This pad is gorgeous. Both the patch and the playing. I’m a huge fan of evolving pads.
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Flute.mp3
Today I tried to make some sort of flutesound... I think it went quite well, but I still need to solve a few problems with some clicky sound that can be heard from time to time... still i feel the sound is quite convincing... I'm not trying to create or imitate a real flute, just giving the impression of a blown instrument of sorts. :)
The big problem is the wind-noise, and getting it to sound like real flute-wind-noise, and not just some noise thru an envelope... the trick lies in the resonance of the filter and the HiPass filter i combination.
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A little demo of a few of the sounds I've created during the last few days... wanted to try and hear some of them together... still need to make final adjustments to them... It's all REV2, except that all was run thru a new purchase of mine: Valhalla DSP - ÜberMod... In fact I've bought two plugins from Valahalla DSP, ÜberMod and VintageVerb... I really like these plugins as they are dead simple to use, and sound absolutely amazing... I'll certainly buy Valhalla Plate as well soon... I have actually decided to stick with Valhalla plugins for external FX, as they are top notch, and I can do what I want to do with them, plus they are priced rather well too.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/AmbientTest.mp3
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A little demo of a few of the sounds I've created during the last few days... wanted to try and hear some of them together... still need to make final adjustments to them... It's all REV2, except that all was run thru a new purchase of mine: Valhalla DSP - ÜberMod... In fact I've bought two plugins from Valahalla DSP, ÜberMod and VintageVerb... I really like these plugins as they are dead simple to use, and sound absolutely amazing... I'll certainly buy Valhalla Plate as well soon... I have actually decided to stick with Valhalla plugins for external FX, as they are top notch, and I can do what I want to do with them, plus they are priced rather well too.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/AmbientTest.mp3
Sean kept posting fantastic demos of the Moog Grandmother on another website. Every day a new awesome demo. I’m sure he sold quite a few Moog Grandmothers. I had already preordered one so he didn’t sell me. However many of his demos featured VintageVerb. Needless to say he DID sell me on that!!
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A little demo of a few of the sounds I've created during the last few days... wanted to try and hear some of them together... still need to make final adjustments to them... It's all REV2, except that all was run thru a new purchase of mine: Valhalla DSP - ÜberMod... In fact I've bought two plugins from Valahalla DSP, ÜberMod and VintageVerb... I really like these plugins as they are dead simple to use, and sound absolutely amazing... I'll certainly buy Valhalla Plate as well soon... I have actually decided to stick with Valhalla plugins for external FX, as they are top notch, and I can do what I want to do with them, plus they are priced rather well too.
http://razmo.ziphoid.com/AmbientTest.mp3
Sean kept posting fantastic demos of the Moog Grandmother on another website. Every day a new awesome demo. I’m sure he sold quite a few Moog Grandmothers. I had already preordered one so he didn’t sell me. However many of his demos featured VintageVerb. Needless to say he DID sell me on that!!
The Valhalla verbs remind me a lot of the Lexicon character that I actually like... i believe the Valhalla dude also worked for them once, i believe I read that somewhere once, which might explain it... but his plugins are much easier to use than the Lexicon PCM plugins... he is dedicated to having all parameters on one screen which I like... it's very intuitive to use these plugins...
The ÜberMod to me, comes out as a sort of delay like plugin when you read about it, and that was actually also what i bought it for... but I quickly found out that it can do just as lush reverbs as the other plugins... some of them sounding really unique... it's capable of timbres you only realize when you try out the demo... I have no regrets of now owning both Shimmer, VintageVerb and Übermod... I only need the two last ones: Room and Plate... sure i can find a use for them too :) ... and they have two free plugins as well, the latest being a chorus/flanger like plugin, the earlier being a spectral delay...
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/MechanusToy.mp3
A new program I made today... I wanted something that sounded like a weird piano/keys-like toy with some mechanic background noise like if each keys sound was driven by mechanical gears or similar.
I came up with the above... still working on it... played very low it has a strange ambient and mysterious sound about it... a really weird preset to be honest...
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Hey Razmo!
So I found your Gear Rant Thread! :)
I wanted to share a patch with you by PM, but that wasn't possible, so for a lack of options I thought I'd put it here. No intention of hijacking your thread or anything, I hope you don't mind. Otherwise just let me know and I'll remove this post. Just get the patch first!
It's just a soft lead, making use of most of the modulation matrix for some subtle changes. The modwheel detunes the patch by 2 octaves, and doing so combined with 1 octave+ transposition I think hits the sweet spot for this patch. I tried getting the same result by just detuning at first, but since there is some modulation with note as source, it didn't end up as good. This patch benefits from a varying play-style, for example staccato, or soft/hard velocity strikes, which brings out the expressiveness of it. There's more sub in the lower octaves, and more delay feedback in the higher.
Please feel free to use this however and in any way you like, if you like, and that goes for anyone else interested. I bet you'll tweak it for the better :)
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Been some time since I wrote anything here... I've just decided to start saving for a Prophet X now... it'll take quite some time before I've got the money, but it'll only give me a lot more time to befriend my REV2 until then, which is good I think.
If everything goes the way I expect, I should be getting an X about may or june next year... that'll leave me with loads of time to create more sounds for the REV2... maybe I'll be able to do two banks before that date.
Also, all that is earned by selling my first bank that I'm working on right now will go to this purchase as well... and when I get the X, I count on the user sample feature to be available and well tested, and I'll be working on creating a bank for the X as well..
I've already begun creating the samples I'll be using for this bank... it will be especially focused on stuff that the REV2 cannot do, or that will take too long time to create on the REV2... and that is; Drones, Ambiences & Effects... the idea is to create a bunch of samples that is basically sustained loops with a lot of motion in them so that they can be seen as "evolving oscillators"... then create a preset bank full of "templates" where the sound can be very easily changed into something else, simply by changing the sample used on instrument 1 & 2... this way you got an immense number of sound possibilities when it comes to drones, effects and ambiences from even just a few template programs... the trick is that most of the modulation is in the samples themselves, leaving the synthesis engine to do the filter and amp enveloping, and other strange modulation things.
I've created more than 800 such samples already... they are generated synthetically and are very rich in variety, harmonics and motion which makes them perfect for these types of sounds, not to speak of the added ability to mangle them further via granular synthesis...
I also thought thru very carefully if I was to get the X or Quantum, but there are some major things that made me decide on the X... first and foremost, the polyphony... but also because i feel more at home with DSI/SCI SysEx specs in contrast to Waldorf's...
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OK... I did it... again... the old love/hate relationship always end with me running back to her: Tempest... :)
I found a good deal on a used specimen, like new for almost half the price of a new one, so I'm happy with that.
I really need a performance.minded drummachine these days after I decided to go non-MIDI with my synths... i was thinking about using a Prophet X for this earlier, but I realized it would be a pain in the neck to reord in full percussion tracks in one go, and as it probably do not have an overdub function, it will not work like I intended... i simply need a drummachine with good performance control, where I can fire off single patterns of grooves, and shift between these "beats" on the fly while I tweak parameters live.
I believe that Tempest is the best solution because I cannot live without an editor for creating the kit sounds, and I already have that for SoundDiver from last time I had it, so i can get right on it when it's here one of the next days.
So my next project will be creating kits for it for the next 6 months while i save up for a Prophet X.... I'll be making a separate thread in the Tempest forum on that topic, with demo's just like with my REV2 bank, and when it's done it'll be up for sale as well...
My plans for my studio is to have three synths connected to my soundcard at once... one with keys, and via a MIDI split cable connect this to two modules to be located right behind the keyboard... this MIDI cable will only serve as a clock output for the two modules so that I can sync these three machines up to each other... one such machine is now Tempest, but I'll probably get more synths in the future, but there will only be three connected at any given time to have a better overview of the stuff that i make, so that it does not get too complicated...
So yes... I'm back in the Tempest game again, with all the quirks and stuff... but at least I know what I'm going into... :)
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OK... I did it... again... the old love/hate relationship always end with me running back to her: Tempest... :)
Oh wow! Hope you will like it and keep it this time around. Somehow your decision made me remember this somewhat off topic video about user experiences:
https://youtu.be/bWLi9UkV5nY
Thinking about alternative solutions could you see yourself synthesize percussion sounds on analog drum modules and interface these with your DAW or perhaps an external sequencer?
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OK... I did it... again... the old love/hate relationship always end with me running back to her: Tempest... :)
Oh wow! Hope you will like it and keep it this time around. Somehow your decision made me remember this somewhat off topic video about user experiences:
https://youtu.be/bWLi9UkV5nY
Thinking about alternative solutions could you see yourself synthesize percussion sounds on analog drum modules and interface these with your DAW or perhaps an external sequencer?
I believe I will this time... sure it is a machine so convoluted, that even bugs are being left in with the last OS beta... but I lived with bugs on Tempest from each and every new beta that came out back then... figuring out how to get around some of the nasty ones... I guess that the reason I sold it the last time was that I could not get MIDI DIN to work with editing from SoundDiver... but USB worked fine back then, and I intend on using it with only USB (in regards to SoundDiver)... it's only for editing the sounds... I do not even use SoundDiver when composing anymore, only editing sounds in advance... this is the same with my REV2 and any other synth I'll get in the future.
As long as Tempest can fire off singe beats reliably when synced to my REV2, then I'll be fine... It did last time I had it, so unless another bug has been introduced in the latest OS'es, then i believe I'll be completely fine.
One of my complaints earlier was about the inconsistency... but I found solutions for that, and as my main interest today is weird ambient noises, the percussion I'll be doing is not that demanding in consistency... in fact a bit of inconsistency might be good on a lot of sounds since it makes it feel more "human".
Another complaint was the glitchy single cycle samples... but honestly... I will not really need them, and they just sound the way they do... it's fine... I have no intention to create any synth sounds even though it's capable of a synth channel... i have the REV2 for that task... in fact the Tempest has got a lot of features that really should not have been in there... I'm with Roger Linn on that one... I'd rather have seen less features to make it more simple, and less bug prone to be honest... that synth channel is just overkill really. If they took out a lot of that excess feature stuff, then they would make the code less complex, and also get space free for what really matters.
I'm definitely looking forward to creating kits for the Tempest... before I only did Sounds... this time I want to focus on whole kits that fit together between the sounds. Back then my main focus was on kicks and snares... while they are still needed, I'll be focusing much more on other types of percussion where these transient inconsistencies are not important at all... I know how to fix the kicks, so I'm fine.
All i need to experience is how well the Tempest will sync up to my REV2 because I've not done that before... if I do not trigger sounds anymore via DAW and MIDI, then the only way i can sync three machines together will be via MIDI DIN and that is crucial! ... I want to be able to press "play" on my REV2, and then have the Tempest and one synth module more play along with their sequencers/arpeggiators... this is because the most important sounds to have quantized are of course percussion, but also a bass and maybe an arpeggiator running at the same speed... these three i will be sequencing when recording to my DAW, while I turn knobs on the REV2 to make the sound evolve, and change beats on the fly on Tempest in addition to beat wide control parameters... so I hope that the sync will not give me any problems.
I actually want to control tempest and one other synth VIA REV2's MIDI out... at first I thought I'd need a MIDI THRU box for this, but since it's only the output, I found that yu can get a special MIDI Y-Cable that does just that... so it's a rather simple setup... REV2 MIDI OUT into MIDI IN on Tempest and one other synth... this way I'll also be able to play both Tempest and the other synth module from the REV2... i can even layer them and control which one i hear by just simply turning the main volume knobs... so it's a powerful little live-playing/sequencing setup that will still be easy to focus on.
Next synth will be Prophet X... when that happens I might have to sell the REV2 and get a module version... I want only ONE keyboard synth.
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Sounds like a plan, Razmo. I would wait and see their next synth before deciding on the Prophet X though. Not that PX is not a fine machine but who knows if their next machine offers more value for your musical goals? Also, maybe a smaller and more affordable box could give you the stable clock source you need? Or maybe a Elektron Digitakt could be an option if you like their workflow as that offers both clock source, sequencing and sample playback?
Definitely looking forward to hear the sounds and tracks you make with Tempest.
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Sounds like a plan, Razmo. I would wait and see their next synth before deciding on the Prophet X though. Not that PX is not a fine machine but who knows if their next machine offers more value for your musical goals? Also, maybe a smaller and more affordable box could give you the stable clock source you need? Or maybe a Elektron Digitakt could be an option if you like their workflow as that offers both clock source, sequencing and sample playback?
Definitely looking forward to hear the sounds and tracks you make with Tempest.
If the sync coming from the REV2 is not tight enough, then I may have to think about that yes... but I think it'll work fine using the REV2 clock... afterall, I'm not really going to send anything but start/stop and clock messages to the two machines since they will be sequenced, not played from the REV2 when recording it all :) ... and usually, MIDI DIN sync is fine on most hardware devices, when you do not include a DAW with MIDI in the equation being the master clock.
Regarding the PX, I'm actually pretty certain this is "the one"... I really do need a sampler thru analog filters, and the PX has features that matter to me more than the Quantum does... and I'd like to have that one as a master keyboard because of it's two sliders... those would be fun to utilize on some of the modules I think.
I'm not going to limit myself to just three machines though... I'm definitely looking forward to see what the new synth will be from Sequential, i also have plans on getting both P12 module and maybe even a Peak and DeepMind module at some point... I have no limits to the number of synths, just a limit of three machines on any given project I will be doing to keep complexity down... But I will stick to my new rule; buy a synth, and then wait 6 months before buying anything else, doing at least one sound bank for each in that period... otherwise I'll end up like before, having a lot of synths that I never really delved deep into.
But samples is what is drawing me the most right now because samples give a lot of flexibility in sound design... I already have great plans for the first sample pack... I've got a piece of software here that convert pictures into .wav files with a lot of options in it... it can create the most wild and weird sounds you just would not be capable of synthesizing on any synth... it even allow you to take control of harmonics and all... thus i can actually create samples for each and every key (deep sampling) which will completely eliminate the "chipmunk effect"... the sounds when transposed not even sound like simple down or up-pitching... it's almost like the harmonic content change instead... I can imagine these sounds as extremely versatile sound building blocks on the PX, making them sound a lot more like real synthesis, just with very complex harmonix and movement.
Any piece of software that can generate interesting wav files would be of use as well... so yes... Prophet X is next... :) ... anyway it'll be another 6 months before i can pay for it, so there is plenty of time to see what Sequential will deliver next time i think ;) ... but from January and 6 months ahead, the Tempest will get all of my love :)
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Now that sample generation program sounds very interesting. Can see what PX can do in such a case. Any data source can be used for making sounds as long as suitable wave shaping options exists. I have found myself another interesting data source that I plan use for this.
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OK... I did it... again... the old love/hate relationship always end with me running back to her: Tempest... :)
I found a good deal on a used specimen, like new for almost half the price of a new one, so I'm happy with that.
I really need a performance.minded drummachine these days after I decided to go non-MIDI with my synths... i was thinking about using a Prophet X for this earlier, but I realized it would be a pain in the neck to reord in full percussion tracks in one go, and as it probably do not have an overdub function, it will not work like I intended... i simply need a drummachine with good performance control, where I can fire off single patterns of grooves, and shift between these "beats" on the fly while I tweak parameters live.
I believe that Tempest is the best solution because I cannot live without an editor for creating the kit sounds, and I already have that for SoundDiver from last time I had it, so i can get right on it when it's here one of the next days.
So my next project will be creating kits for it for the next 6 months while i save up for a Prophet X.... I'll be making a separate thread in the Tempest forum on that topic, with demo's just like with my REV2 bank, and when it's done it'll be up for sale as well...
My plans for my studio is to have three synths connected to my soundcard at once... one with keys, and via a MIDI split cable connect this to two modules to be located right behind the keyboard... this MIDI cable will only serve as a clock output for the two modules so that I can sync these three machines up to each other... one such machine is now Tempest, but I'll probably get more synths in the future, but there will only be three connected at any given time to have a better overview of the stuff that i make, so that it does not get too complicated...
So yes... I'm back in the Tempest game again, with all the quirks and stuff... but at least I know what I'm going into... :)
Tempest will always be a mainstay for me. I almost always use the onboard samples for drums in my work and midi out the synth voice to do bass lines on my Moog, Oberhiem or whatever. The arpeggiator is really useful as I found when you have a Mono timbral synth like the OB6 or P6 you can midi out the synth voice to the lower half of the keyboard doing an arpeggiated pattern while still being able to play chords or a lead on the higher keys. It’s also great when you set it to random and hold a few drum samples, it creates some really interesting beats for you.
More recently though I’ve started to use the Tempest to do background synth sequencing which sounds great. I can’t wait to see what Roger Linn comes up with next, regardless tho...I don’t think I’d get rid of the Tempest. I was looking another drum machine to compliment it but haven’t heard anything sound wise that blew me out of the water.
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Yes, I read that Linn is working on a drummachine, but I bet it'll be digital and around samples... Two of the most appealing factors of the tempest is still that it is analog, but also that it is deep in its engine... I know of few drummachines that use a synth voice for engine... Waldorf Rack Attack is, but its digital and have very few samples to boot. The Tempest engine is a sound designers dream and it allows for many many more timbres than any other analog drummachine out there today.
I decided not to wait for something new in this category because I don't think I will ever see one in the near future... Dave wont be doing a Tempest 2, I simply do not think he want to deal with such a task again :)
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I find drum machines are all about performance UI, pattern creation and sequencing, delay effects, and clock/CV/MIDI/DIN sync connectivity without having to think, less about sound design. No current offering gets all of these right in one box.
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I find drum machines are all about performance UI, pattern creation and sequencing, delay effects, and clock/CV/MIDI/DIN sync connectivity without having to think, less about sound design. No current offering gets all of these right in one box.
Wise words, thanks!
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I find drum machines are all about performance UI, pattern creation and sequencing, delay effects, and clock/CV/MIDI/DIN sync connectivity without having to think, less about sound design. No current offering gets all of these right in one box.
I'm probably a bit aparte from the majority... I agree that it's about sequencing and live tweaking, but that does not mean that a synth engine that is deep is not interresting, especially if you're not just searching for the standard 4 on the floor type of kick, snare and hihat sounds... that is EXACTLY why i prefer the Tempest... because it's engine lets me create a hell of a lot more timbres than just your standard "RYTM" drummachine... I simply find those too limiting.
On the other hand, if that standard type of sounds is what you really want, then i can understand why some people would not want the Tempest... it takes longer to come up with proper percussion sounds because you need to tweak more deeply to get them... so timewise, Tempest is not all that easy... but timbral flexibility is the force of the Tempest, and that is exactly what I want... I want to create kits that sound like no other drummachine out there will be able to recreate... not because i can, but because i need those kind of sounds... Ambient is all about experimentation and weird noises :)
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I'd say, that the only thing I could want as a feature on the Tempest was a build in FX unit... that way i could have made kits that are complete out of the box... when I do my drumkit banks in the future, I'll also be making them dry and without FX so that they will run "out of the box" like I do with my REV2 bank... but there will allways be the need for external processing on the Tempest unfortunately... I'm still thinking about how I want to actually deal with that... but as i see it now, I'll just try to tweak as much "FX" out of the box as i can by using some tricks, and then simply leave it to the user to decide if they want to plug a separate out into an external FX to spice the kits up.... in reality, there is no other way to do this...
In many cases, you would want a delay or verb on some of the percussion sounds, but the kick is usually prefered dry... many times it sounds pretty good having everything thru a delay except for the kick sound... but this can be simulated using a master delay/reverb if you just make sure that no low-end comes either into the FX engine, or out of it... that will isolate the bass frequency, but effect everything else... so I am to experiment with this approach first... if that works, using the individual outs will not be necessary, and then both the distortion and compressor can be effectively used on the main signal as well... no need to make things more complicated than necessary.
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I find drum machines are all about performance UI, pattern creation and sequencing, delay effects, and clock/CV/MIDI/DIN sync connectivity without having to think, less about sound design. No current offering gets all of these right in one box.
I'm probably a bit aparte from the majority... I agree that it's about sequencing and live tweaking, but that does not mean that a synth engine that is deep is not interresting, especially if you're not just searching for the standard 4 on the floor type of kick, snare and hihat sounds... that is EXACTLY why i prefer the Tempest... because it's engine lets me create a hell of a lot more timbres than just your standard "RYTM" drummachine... I simply find those too limiting.
On the other hand, if that standard type of sounds is what you really want, then i can understand why some people would not want the Tempest... it takes longer to come up with proper percussion sounds because you need to tweak more deeply to get them... so timewise, Tempest is not all that easy... but timbral flexibility is the force of the Tempest, and that is exactly what I want... I want to create kits that sound like no other drummachine out there will be able to recreate... not because i can, but because i need those kind of sounds... Ambient is all about experimentation and weird noises :)
What I did was gather all the LM1 samples, LinnDrum samples, Boss DR55 samples, 808 samples, 909 samples and Tom Cartridge samples and saved them in their respective collections as beats but with no pattern attached to them. I even organized them on the pads to mimic their placement on the original machines. It really helped me just quickly grab the drum machine sound I want for a composition. I really only use the analog engine for bass sounds or incidental sequencing stuff.
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I find drum machines are all about performance UI, pattern creation and sequencing, delay effects, and clock/CV/MIDI/DIN sync connectivity without having to think, less about sound design. No current offering gets all of these right in one box.
I'm probably a bit aparte from the majority... I agree that it's about sequencing and live tweaking, but that does not mean that a synth engine that is deep is not interresting, especially if you're not just searching for the standard 4 on the floor type of kick, snare and hihat sounds... that is EXACTLY why i prefer the Tempest... because it's engine lets me create a hell of a lot more timbres than just your standard "RYTM" drummachine... I simply find those too limiting.
On the other hand, if that standard type of sounds is what you really want, then i can understand why some people would not want the Tempest... it takes longer to come up with proper percussion sounds because you need to tweak more deeply to get them... so timewise, Tempest is not all that easy... but timbral flexibility is the force of the Tempest, and that is exactly what I want... I want to create kits that sound like no other drummachine out there will be able to recreate... not because i can, but because i need those kind of sounds... Ambient is all about experimentation and weird noises :)
What I did was gather all the LM1 samples, LinnDrum samples, Boss DR55 samples, 808 samples, 909 samples and Tom Cartridge samples and saved them in their respective collections as beats but with no pattern attached to them. I even organized them on the pads to mimic their placement on the original machines. It really helped me just quickly grab the drum machine sound I want for a composition. I really only use the analog engine for bass sounds or incidental sequencing stuff.
Well... my goals will be a bit different... I'd be wanting to seriously use the analog oscillators for creating dynamic percussion, as I've always found samples to be a bit too static unless they are samples of real percussion instruments that are impossible to synthesize anyway, and still I'd be mangling them in the synthesis engine... using the oscillators will make the sounds less static... but of course it depends on what you want with the sounds... In fact I do not think I'll be using any of the samples in their raw state... I'll use them to spice the analog side up instead... point is, that the kind of percussion I'd want for my projects are so experimental that there will not be any in the samples anyway... so again; I'll have to make my own.
The bank I'll be doing will also not have any patterns build for them at all... as with the REV2's polysequencer, they will be empty, simply because I find that I will always want to create my own patterns anyway... I'm not a big fan of using other artists creations, I'd rather make my own and be unique.
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I got my TEMPEST again some days ago, and as some of you who have looked in the TEMPEST forum already know, I managed to brick it pretty quickly, trying to update it to the latest OS... the TEMPEST obviously do not have a bootloader function, so right now I'm waiting for a replacement board to arrive from Sequential, so that i can get it up and running again... the time off, has made me think a bit about how I want to go about designing sounds for the TEMPEST, and how i want to be using it... how to organise the BEATS in it...
I know very well from my earlier dealings with the TEMPEST, that you have to really work around some "things", especially if you want consistency in the transients, so I want to be planning ahead with this in mind, and also a few "problems" regarding individual processing of sounds...
To be able to achieve consistency, each drumsound need to be assigned to a single voice... this improves it quite a lot, but you still have some inconsistency when more than one sound use the same voice... i bet this is because the TEMPEST has to reset every sound parameter when two voices that use the same voice, has to be switching between the two sounds... that is; if you hit the same pad all the time, you have no inconsistency, but if you then hit another pad, it will on the first hit sound a little bit different to any following hits of the same sound... simply because CVs has to settle to new values etc...
The only way to remedy this is if yuo asure that one sound alone is allocated to a particular voice... in other words, you limit yourself to 6 drumsounds in a beat, all of them using their own voice... in that case you cannot get more consistent really... this sounds like a total waste of up to 32 sounds... but I intend on expanding the number of sounds to 12... double up so to say... each drumsound will have an "accent" sound in addition... in that case, those two use the same voice, and since they are usually rather close in nature, the inconsistency would be a lot less... say: Kick and Kick with long decay... long/short snare... Open/Closed Hat... High/Low tom etc. etc...
I intend on placing these six sounds on the lower left row of pads, and their accents exactly above which seems most logical... the two pads left over at the lower and upper row at the right side I do not know what to do with yet, but I'll figure that out.
Another reason to do it this way is to overcome another problem... you do not have 32 individual outputs... when you start to assign more than one sound to the same output, the harder it gets to individually FX any drumsounds. With my plan, having only 6 sounds each with an accent, any of the sounds will get it's own separate output, not sharing it with any other sound... in essense, I'm creating a kind of "hardwired" drummachine... almost like a 6 track/sound drummachine with individual outs for every sound... on top of this I get the best consistency I can get, and really... you do not need polyphony in a drummachine anyway.
This means that if you want to use the built in distortion and compressor, you simply do not plug any cable into the individual outs, and when you need external processing, you simply plug in a cable for whatever of the 6 drumstrack sounds you want.
I know it's a waste of the 32 sounds, but I intend on using sound bank B for a variation kit on all my BEATS... that leave only 8 wasted sounds, but I can live with that.
In my point of view, the TEMPEST should have been made a lot more simple... i actually think it would have been better if it was made with this "one voice per sound, on it's own output"... it would have made it much more logical in it's layout... the synth engine should have been left out completely... that task is for real synthesizers, and it only takes up codespace, and complicates the code even further... but hey... TEMPEST is what it is, and it's a cool sounding drummachine, especially when you know how to work around the quirks and remaining bugs.
Back to my plans... earlier I wanted to just make sounds... these days i can see the usefulness of dropping the individual sound approach and instead focus on crating BEATS instead (or rather KITS, which is the right term for this). I want to be able to have kits where all sounds fit together at the get go, where levels and BEAT FX has already been set up... sure you may want to change something, but then it's easier to just tweak the BEAT sounds, or load individual sounds if you want something else, instead of having to start from an initialized BEAT every time, and load every single sound from scratch... SO I'm really appreciative of the way Dave and Roger has organised the memory of their structures... that a single BEAT has all of the 32 sounds "built in", and not just pointing to sounds... that's a HUGE plus with the TEMPEST!
I also want the KITS (I'll call them kits from now on because i really find the name "BEATS" confusing...) to be as modulateable in reatime as possible, so I want to make full use of the beatwide control the TEMPEST offer... also there will be NO sequences programmed because everyone would want to make their own rhythms anyway, and having to constantly erase the sequence tracks is just gong to be a pain in the neck... therefore; EMPTY! ... you be the creative part with the sequencing, I'll do most of the sound design :)
I'm not sure that my kits will be minded solely on Ambient because there really is not much rhythm in ambient music anyway... there would quickly be a lot of kits with thumping sounds anyway, so I'll probably focus these kits more at the experimental area...but certainly I'll focus on the weird and the wonderful more than on the boring cliches (think 808, 909 etc...) ... it's time to broaden peoples sense for percussion other than just the usual "four on the floor" type of approach... there is already plenty of options in that department out there... I'm certainly going to "rape" that AudioMod and AudioFeedback parameter for sure :D
that was a bit about my current plans for the TEMPEST.
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Another Tempest!
I don't look at the Tempest forum as it was getting me down so did you get it fixed?
Mines been disconnected for a while, looking at me in an accusing manner but I can't bring myself to sell it.
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Another Tempest!
I don't look at the Tempest forum as it was getting me down so did you get it fixed?
Mines been disconnected for a while, looking at me in an accusing manner but I can't bring myself to sell it.
Yes!... another go with it... but this time in a bit different way :) ... I have the replacement board coming in two days, and then it will be replaced... will be nice to get a bit away from the REV2 when my soundbank is done for it... and yes... it's hard to get rid of this quirky drummachine, I know ... it's my third time around with it... maybe I should give it a woman's name :)
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it's my third time around with it...
In case anyone wondered why I linked to this video previously:
https://youtu.be/VoAMs5pH--0?t=92
Wishing you a pleasantly wild journey! ;)
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maybe I should give it a woman's name :)
Maybe Sycorax?
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maybe I should give it a woman's name :)
Maybe Sycorax?
How the hell did you find that name!? :D ... i had to look it up, and it's obviously a hag in a play called Tempest... a hag is a fantasy creature as well, so yes! ... her name will be Sycorax! ... I think I'll name a patch that! :D
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Well... I've been thinking quite a lot about my coming purchase of a Prophet X lately, and i actually think that I'll pass this sampler/synth... there are several reasons for this, but my main reasons are as follows:
1. I intended on creating a lot of multisampled (deepsampled) instruments from both microphone (various acoustic stuff) and synthetically created sounds via different .wav generation apps... now I've been editing ssamples thru my last 25+ years, and (if I may say so) are quite skilled at it... but I also know, that it's one HELL of a lot of work, if you are as perfectionistic as i am... looping samples seamlessly, and for every sample on every key will simply be a nightmare beyond what I'd ever end up finishing.... also choosing what to use among potentially an unlimited amount of samples is something I'm not good at... i tend to want it all, completely blowing any healthy overview of the projects away... this has happened every time I've had a sampler... so i doubt it will be any different with a Prophet X... If I am to use samples again, it must be synths that has ROM samples, so that all has been done for me... like the Tempest for example.
2. I thought about WHY I really wanted samples... most of what i wanted to do was to use generated samples... yes they can get complex, but in most cases, creating similar sounds with synthesis instead can provide the same, and with much more flexibility... i find that I probably wanted samples to jump the fence where it's lowest... so using samples will only make me more lazy... and inhibit me from honing my skills at synthesis instead... yes you can get complex tones that is probably impossible to do with a synthesizer, but this is mainly samples with organic qualities like voices, phrases etc... I can live without vocal samples... also because I'd have to use other peoples samples, which i do not want to... my music will be instrumental, and that's just the way it is.
3. The handling of samples... I'm a firm user of SysEx and like to be able to save my sounds in libraries in SoundDiver... with a sampler structure, including samples inside SysEx messages is impossible, which restrain my librarian functions... I do not like the idea of having programs and samples split in two like that... it gets too circumstancial.
4. The price is simply a bit too steep to my liking as well... I know it's probably worth the money, but I'd get more from getting a Prophet 12 or even a PEAK instead (though I'd have to take a VERY close look at the PEAK SysEx first, since I've read that it's a nightmare).
...So right now, my next aim is at a Prophet 12... would be cool if I had the money now so i could get me one of those last white editions, but they are probably gone by the time I have the money anyway... Maybe I'll have a wait and see what the replacement will be... only time will tell.
I also got the replacement board for the Tempest today, plus a knob kit for it... unfortunately, one knob was missing so now I'm waiting for DSI to send me that ONE knob cap :D ... anyway, I'm looking forward to working with the Tempest in the coming months (when my REV2 bank is done)... and right now I'm actually glad that DSI never got around to making the samples in it overwritable... then I'd just have had the same problem with the Tempest, choosing and editing samples for it.
This also means that the Quantum is also out of the equation now... don't want to mess with the sample options there too... I'm officially done with sample editing from today... period... I'm the "synth guy"... 100% :)
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My last post here actually made me think about what I'd like to see from Sequential in the future, if they wanted to create a hybrid ROM'pler... I'd actually really like to see such a synth, but the choice in the samples available would have to be VERY VERY CAREFULLY created and chosen... not just simply throw the job to 8DIO because Dave do not want to deal with the sample editing.
With a synth like that, the samples should be carefully created building blocks, meant for sculpting sounds with them... that is; no acoustic sampled instruments or anything... it would need to be specific waveforms made for processing, like different types of noise, different waveforms with different partials in them... sustained tones that is perfectly looped to work as oscillators, just with much more harmonic content... formant waveforms sampled for all keys on the keyboard so that formants are held true no matter where on the keys you play them... completely eliminate chipmunk effects by sampling the waveforms on every key if they have any kind of modulation going on will eliminate the chipmunk effect... no need for velocity layers, they are meant for processing... for synthesis, so all velocity modulation can be done using the synthesis engine on the samples using filters etc.
It's basically just the Prophet X with it's two Instrument oscillators, samples carefully prepared on a ROM/FLASH without any ability to erase the samples... take out the digital oscillators and simplify the user interface... and a drop on the price :)
If such a synth was available, it would be on my list immediately...
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Hmmm...that almost sounds like the old Korg DWGS waves. They weren't sampled, though, they were resynthesized IIRC, but they produced clean single-cycle waves with various harmonic content and fed it through SSM filters. The modern equivalents are the Modal 002 and the Peak. The 002 has 50 or so waveforms, including some from the PPG, but no interpolated wavetables. The Modal's advantage is the variable-mode filter, which sounds wonderful. Neither of them should alias, since they both use numerically-controlled oscillators. The Peak has actual wavetables and is MUCH less expensive.
That may not be what you're getting at, but that's what your wishlist reminded me of.
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Hmmm...that almost sounds like the old Korg DWGS waves. They weren't sampled, though, they were resynthesized IIRC, but they produced clean single-cycle waves with various harmonic content and fed it through SSM filters. The modern equivalents are the Modal 002 and the Peak. The 002 has 50 or so waveforms, including some from the PPG, but no interpolated wavetables. The Modal's advantage is the variable-mode filter, which sounds wonderful. Neither of them should alias, since they both use numerically-controlled oscillators. The Peak has actual wavetables and is MUCH less expensive.
That may not be what you're getting at, but that's what your wishlist reminded me of.
Yeah... it's basically that, just that the samples are of course much longer to allow for better textural content... the DWGS waves or the like was very very short, and that's not what I'm after alone... but it would be essential to include such types of samples as well of course.
I actually like the Prophet X idea, where each note on the keyboard have it's own sample... so that no sample is in fact transposed... this allow for the samples to be of a very high quality all over the keyboard... on typical samplers, where samples are pitch shifted, the quality degrades the longer you transpose from the root note of the sample, and also speed it up or slow it down... these problems are completely gone when each key has its own sample... the only drawback is that GLIDE is not possible because of this... but using this "sample per key" scheme, any Instrument you create would be of utmost quality, and you would be able to maintain formants and the speed of modulation in the samples up and down the keyboard... this would totaly eliminate that typical "sample feel" of traditional samplers... add one simple feature to allow for the sample to loop continuously without restarting at each keypress (a free running oscillator), and you will also eliminate that static sample feel when the transient is always the same... that is also why the samples need to be loop textures and waveforms so that it's not sounding weird... I'd really like to see a hybrid ROM'pler with this synthesis in mind... almost like a sort of looped Mellotron approach.
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Hmmm...that almost sounds like the old Korg DWGS waves. They weren't sampled, though, they were resynthesized IIRC, but they produced clean single-cycle waves with various harmonic content and fed it through SSM filters. The modern equivalents are the Modal 002 and the Peak. The 002 has 50 or so waveforms, including some from the PPG, but no interpolated wavetables. The Modal's advantage is the variable-mode filter, which sounds wonderful. Neither of them should alias, since they both use numerically-controlled oscillators. The Peak has actual wavetables and is MUCH less expensive.
That may not be what you're getting at, but that's what your wishlist reminded me of.
I've played with a Peak in the store and it's an amazing sounding machine, reminded me of my XTk a hell of a lot but somewhat thicker, possibly due to the analogue filter and VCA's in it. Very tempting....
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PEAK has tempted me ever since it was released... But the secrecy of the SysEx and weird MIDI control people are talking about is keeping me back. It is the only real contender to the P12 module right now... It lacks some things in comparison though... Four voices and dual layers... P12 on the other hand lacks built in reverb...and multimode filter.
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The Peak is nice but I think I’d wait until they gave us a keyboard version or at least something with more than monotimbrality. I do have a feeling though Sequential’s next offering will blow the Peak out of the water.
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The Peak is nice but I think I’d wait until they gave us a keyboard version or at least something with more than monotimbrality. I do have a feeling though Sequential’s next offering will blow the Peak out of the water.
I agree... I won't buy anything for the next 6 months anyway, as i promised myself not to... and i just bought a Tempest, so I've got plenty of time to think about the next purchase, and see what new goodies will come by... I'm also keen on seeing what the Prophet 12 replacement will be... if it has to compete with the PEAK, Dave needs to start using FPGA for the digital oscillators... that was one area where you could really hear the digital harshness on the Prophet 12... that 11KHz bandlimit... They should really get into the megahertz processing like the PEAK does it... we need a better digital frontend.
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OK... I did it... again... the old love/hate relationship always end with me running back to her: Tempest... :)
I found a good deal on a used specimen, like new for almost half the price of a new one, so I'm happy with that.
I finally took the plunge and bought a brand new Tempest today. Perhaps I'm a fool for doing so in 2018...
Edit: Heck, more like 2019! :o
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OK... I did it... again... the old love/hate relationship always end with me running back to her: Tempest... :)
I found a good deal on a used specimen, like new for almost half the price of a new one, so I'm happy with that.
I finally took the plunge and bought a brand new Tempest today. Perhaps I'm a fool for doing so in 2018...
Edit: Heck, more like 2019! :o
Well, cool! :D
I do not find the TEMPEST a bad drummachine... the problem with it is it's shortcomings in the MIDI department, and a few other things... but the sound is absolutely stunning when you know how to handle the programing well, allocate the voices etc... in fact, even though i know it's Curtis filters, the character of the synthesizer in it somehow sounds more rough... better (in my opinion) then the REV2... REV2 seems more "polite"... if it's because of the Tempest's signal path running thru both hipass, compressor and distortion as well or because of the enhanced envelopes (or both) I cannot tell... it just has another sound character than the REV2.
But still... I'd really wish it had a full MIDI spec, even though I know it's a huge load of work to make that happen... It's very few drummachines actually, that give you full MIDI specs.
I'll live with it as it is... and to be honest... if i could choose just ONE thing to change (fix), it would probably be the single cycle samples that have wrong loop points... but even without any fix, I'll do fine.
I'm really looking forward to giving the REV2 a rest now, and get on with programing the Tempest... learning some drum synthesis tricks.
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I've been waiting for something to take its place, but it doesn't look like that's happening anytime soon. I'm sure the Linndrum 2 will feature an improved interface and whatnot, but Roger said it won't be ready for some time and I'm assuming it'll be all digital anyhow. I tried the Rytm Mk.II which was nice, yet too limiting in the analog realm for my taste.
The Tempest just sounds like it'll fit into the type of music I make better than its competition. At least I can find examples on Youtube that suggest such, although that could merely be because Elektron & Roland users seem to only want to use their machines to program trite four on the floor beats that couldn't be further from my intended use.
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I've been waiting for something to take its place, but it doesn't look like that's happening anytime soon. I'm sure the Linndrum 2 will feature an improved interface and whatnot, but Roger said it won't be ready for some time and I'm assuming it'll be all digital anyhow. I tried the Rytm Mk.II which was nice, yet too limiting in the analog realm for my taste.
The Tempest just sounds like it'll fit into the type of music I make better than its competition. At least I can find examples on Youtube that suggest such, although that could merely be because Elektron & Roland users seem to only want to use their machines to program trite four on the floor beats that couldn't be further from my intended use.
That is exactly why I chose to get the TEMPEST for the third time... because it's very different to any other drummachine... You have to decide what kind of drummachine you want... if you want fast editing, more "standard", then the TEMPEST is not the right choice I think... the engine is simply too deep... TEMPEST in my view, is a sound designer's drummachine... it'll take effort to program the sounds, but you can get so many more types of percussion from this than most other drummachines i know of... especially if you want some analog stuff in it. In fact, I chose this because i do NOT want to make only "four on the floor" drums... I want to be creative with the engine, and come up with unique sounding percussion kits usable not just in electronic dance music, but also all other types of genres.
Yes... it does have quite a few quirks and bugs, but it's sound character and depth outweigh it... especially if you can live without a full MIDI spec.
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Yes... it does have quite a few quirks and bugs, but it's sound character and depth outweigh it... especially if you can live without a full MIDI spec.
Well from what I've been told by a Digitakt owner, MIDI control of complex drum machines isn't really an option these days.
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Yes... it does have quite a few quirks and bugs, but it's sound character and depth outweigh it... especially if you can live without a full MIDI spec.
Well from what I've been told by a Digitakt owner, MIDI control of complex drum machines isn't really an option these days.
With Tempest there are several reasons why it is a daring task... First off, you have 32 sounds... So you cannot give each sound its own MIDI channel to operate on, thus making CC and program change not possible... A project has 16 beats, all having 32 sounds built in... If you on top of that require that all drums be triggered on a single channel (normally 10) you would be even more in trouble... It is a monstrous ordeal to make a full MIDI spec'ed drummachine.
But Tempest is so limited it will not even send out much MIDI... It wont send any of its physical controllers... But again; with 32 sounds it would serve no point, because what would the reason be, if it cannot know where to direct this data when a DAW send it back?
So it do not send anything but note on and off plus clock messages and some basic SysEx dump messages... It will not send pad pressure, slider position or slider pressure... In general, it receive more messages than it send, but it is a long way from being able to create a full fledged editor and remote control for Tempest... You cannot even use the most basic controllers from a DAW... In no way are you capable of recording sliders or pad pressure data in your DAW track and play it back... Only simple note on with velocity... Thats it...
So Tempest is a drummachine to be used stand alone, as a performance instrument really... Maybe synced by a DAW instead... Luckily that is exactly what I inteded anyway as I am off the MIDI grid when making music... I only use MIDI for creating the raw sounds, thats it, and luckily I have my editor for creating the sounds, so I'm fine :)
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Yes... it does have quite a few quirks and bugs, but it's sound character and depth outweigh it... especially if you can live without a full MIDI spec.
Well from what I've been told by a Digitakt owner, MIDI control of complex drum machines isn't really an option these days.
With Tempest there are several reasons why it is a daring task... First off, you have 32 sounds... So you cannot give each sound its own MIDI channel to operate on, thus making CC and program change not possible... A project has 16 beats, all having 32 sounds built in... If you on top of that require that all drums be triggered on a single channel (normally 10) you would be even more in trouble... It is a monstrous ordeal to make a full MIDI spec'ed drummachine.
But Tempest is so limited it will not even send out much MIDI... It wont send any of its physical controllers... But again; with 32 sounds it would serve no point, because what would the reason be, if it cannot know where to direct this data when a DAW send it back?
So it do not send anything but note on and off plus clock messages and some basic SysEx dump messages... It will not send pad pressure, slider position or slider pressure... In general, it receive more messages than it send, but it is a long way from being able to create a full fledged editor and remote control for Tempest... You cannot even use the most basic controllers from a DAW... In no way are you capable of recording sliders or pad pressure data in your DAW track and play it back... Only simple note on with velocity... Thats it...
So Tempest is a drummachine to be used stand alone, as a performance instrument really... Maybe synced by a DAW instead... Luckily that is exactly what I inteded anyway as I am off the MIDI grid when making music... I only use MIDI for creating the raw sounds, thats it, and luckily I have my editor for creating the sounds, so I'm fine :)
Oh wow, that is a bare minimum indeed! Cheers for the run through. I've seen Tempests for sale 2nd hand many times and have come close to purchasing one, with the Digitakt also in the back of my mind. I'm used to the flexibility of the MIDI implementation of RY30 with the fun of controlling filter and decay plus it's separate channels for different instruments, making it great for sequencing with many sequencers at once, though mine has died and it's quite a task to replace that functionality without finding another or plonking a good amount of money on one of the RM30's a particular eBay seller has (and then losing the onboard sequencer). It's a shame that nothing seems to have the ability do set multiple channels to one kit. Although the Digitakt does have a fairly comprehensive list of parameters controllable via MIDI, using it with a DAW is what I've been told is a no-go (fortunately not my world) and it definitely doesn't have multiple channels per kit (very much my world)....
I hope you find an workflow with your Tempest that you are comfortable with!
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Yes... it does have quite a few quirks and bugs, but it's sound character and depth outweigh it... especially if you can live without a full MIDI spec.
Well from what I've been told by a Digitakt owner, MIDI control of complex drum machines isn't really an option these days.
With Tempest there are several reasons why it is a daring task... First off, you have 32 sounds... So you cannot give each sound its own MIDI channel to operate on, thus making CC and program change not possible... A project has 16 beats, all having 32 sounds built in... If you on top of that require that all drums be triggered on a single channel (normally 10) you would be even more in trouble... It is a monstrous ordeal to make a full MIDI spec'ed drummachine.
But Tempest is so limited it will not even send out much MIDI... It wont send any of its physical controllers... But again; with 32 sounds it would serve no point, because what would the reason be, if it cannot know where to direct this data when a DAW send it back?
So it do not send anything but note on and off plus clock messages and some basic SysEx dump messages... It will not send pad pressure, slider position or slider pressure... In general, it receive more messages than it send, but it is a long way from being able to create a full fledged editor and remote control for Tempest... You cannot even use the most basic controllers from a DAW... In no way are you capable of recording sliders or pad pressure data in your DAW track and play it back... Only simple note on with velocity... Thats it...
So Tempest is a drummachine to be used stand alone, as a performance instrument really... Maybe synced by a DAW instead... Luckily that is exactly what I inteded anyway as I am off the MIDI grid when making music... I only use MIDI for creating the raw sounds, thats it, and luckily I have my editor for creating the sounds, so I'm fine :)
Oh wow, that is a bare minimum indeed! Cheers for the run through. I've seen Tempests for sale 2nd hand many times and have come close to purchasing one, with the Digitakt also in the back of my mind. I'm used to the flexibility of the MIDI implementation of RY30 with the fun of controlling filter and decay plus it's separate channels for different instruments, making it great for sequencing with many sequencers at once, though mine has died and it's quite a task to replace that functionality without finding another or plonking a good amount of money on one of the RM30's a particular eBay seller has (and then losing the onboard sequencer). It's a shame that nothing seems to have the ability do set multiple channels to one kit. Although the Digitakt does have a fairly comprehensive list of parameters controllable via MIDI, using it with a DAW is what I've been told is a no-go (fortunately not my world) and it definitely doesn't have multiple channels per kit (very much my world)....
I hope you find an workflow with your Tempest that you are comfortable with!
I'll be using it stand alone basically... I decided to go away from composing with MIDI thru a DAW, simply to get rid of all that MIDI overhead... If I need tight timing of stuff like percussion, basslines or sequences, I'll be sending MIDI Clock messages via MIDI DIN from the Tempest (or to it) to two other synths, so that I can get a rhythm, a bassline and one more track going in sync... these sequences will then be recorded live into my DAW via audio, manipulating the sequenes in realtime... the rest like pads and other melodylines and FX will be recorded in live via other layers.
This also takes the MIDI sync out of the DAW equation which is what I would like... DAW's have always given me sync problems no matter if it's DIN or USB... using clock from hardware to hardware will hopefully stop that.
This will force me to seriously get into the Tempest sequencer usage... Everything will be edited from the front panel, except for the creation of individual sounds (as I described earlier)... the same goes for my REV2... both machines are hooked up to my DAW only for my editor, and that is done via USB (no need for MIDI echo or anything, just plain SysEx going back and forth), while DIN handles all the SYNC stuff.
It's a bit different to how I made music in the past, being 100% MIDI driven... and it does have some disadvantages, but I'll deal with that. :)
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It actually dawned on me yesterday, how much of Tempest most cool live features are impossible to utilize via DAW because it receive almost no MIDI control messages... the pads themselves have pressure sensitivity which can really liven up sounds after they have been triggered... this pressure data cannot be send via MIDI, and thus not received.
Another thing is the FX sliders... both position and pressure can really liven up tracks too, especially when recorded into a sequence... again, none of these controls are sent or received... these can also be recorded into a track, but it will not be possible if using it with a DAW sending the note ons.
These features are what gives you the ability to induce a more human feel into your rhythms... and that's very important in my case... with a DAW you'd just have yet another static sounds track, except for what liveliness you can induce via velocity.
I know that there are a few CC's that you can send to the Tempest from a DAW, but these are mainly for beat-wide parameters... also stuff like Pitch-Bend (mainly for the synth part of Tempest I guess) can be received, plus ModWheel, BreathControl and Expression... but again; for the Synth stuff only.
The biggest thing I could wish for in Tempest would probably be a real master reverb and delay... it's hard to get any FX on Tempest unless you start to mess with individual outputs, which is a shame since only the Main output has distortion and compressor on it... so you cannot create kits with dedicated FX applied...
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It actually dawned on me yesterday, how much of Tempest most cool live features are impossible to utilize via DAW because it receive almost no MIDI control messages... the pads themselves have pressure sensitivity which can really liven up sounds after they have been triggered... this pressure data cannot be send via MIDI, and thus not received.
Another thing is the FX sliders... both position and pressure can really liven up tracks too, especially when recorded into a sequence... again, none of these controls are sent or received... these can also be recorded into a track, but it will not be possible if using it with a DAW sending the note ons.
These features are what gives you the ability to induce a more human feel into your rhythms... and that's very important in my case... with a DAW you'd just have yet another static sounds track, except for what liveliness you can induce via velocity.
I know that there are a few CC's that you can send to the Tempest from a DAW, but these are mainly for beat-wide parameters... also stuff like Pitch-Bend (mainly for the synth part of Tempest I guess) can be received, plus ModWheel, BreathControl and Expression... but again; for the Synth stuff only.
The biggest thing I could wish for in Tempest would probably be a real master reverb and delay... it's hard to get any FX on Tempest unless you start to mess with individual outputs, which is a shame since only the Main output has distortion and compressor on it... so you cannot create kits with dedicated FX applied...
I think you essentially answered your own question above... record audio. I’ve been doing more of that as well. Happier with the results. Small timing imperfections are what make the music groove.
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It actually dawned on me yesterday, how much of Tempest most cool live features are impossible to utilize via DAW because it receive almost no MIDI control messages... the pads themselves have pressure sensitivity which can really liven up sounds after they have been triggered... this pressure data cannot be send via MIDI, and thus not received.
Another thing is the FX sliders... both position and pressure can really liven up tracks too, especially when recorded into a sequence... again, none of these controls are sent or received... these can also be recorded into a track, but it will not be possible if using it with a DAW sending the note ons.
These features are what gives you the ability to induce a more human feel into your rhythms... and that's very important in my case... with a DAW you'd just have yet another static sounds track, except for what liveliness you can induce via velocity.
I know that there are a few CC's that you can send to the Tempest from a DAW, but these are mainly for beat-wide parameters... also stuff like Pitch-Bend (mainly for the synth part of Tempest I guess) can be received, plus ModWheel, BreathControl and Expression... but again; for the Synth stuff only.
The biggest thing I could wish for in Tempest would probably be a real master reverb and delay... it's hard to get any FX on Tempest unless you start to mess with individual outputs, which is a shame since only the Main output has distortion and compressor on it... so you cannot create kits with dedicated FX applied...
I think you essentially answered your own question above... record audio. I’ve been doing more of that as well. Happier with the results. Small timing imperfections are what make the music groove.
I think it depends on what type of music you're doing if quantize is necessary. For Ambient music it's not really a big deal, but if it's electronic percussion or Berlin School like basslines or sequences, then a sequencer with quantize function is a must have for me... also longer parts with very repetitive playing can be tiresome to do "by hand", and a sequencer will do it for you... and in other situations, like with advanced arpeggios it may even be impossible to play them live.
What I do like about live audio recording though is, that the result tend to get much less repetitive and dynamic... there is hardly any parts that sound the same, and it also sometimes gives off unpredicted but good results since i often improvise stuff along the way... all in all... doing audio recording usually makes the whole arrangement easier to listen to because of the less repetitiveness.
And then of course there is the big advantage that you can use the same sound source as many times as you wish, and record all performance tweaks directly... no need for troublesome automation via MIDI anymore etc.
all in all, its just better this way... for me at least.
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I think I've finaly come to a conclusion on how to tackle my future compositions... studio wise that is.
In the past I had loads of synths, but completely drowned my overview and focus on too many synths and cable connections... it was a lot of fun and i learned a lot about a lot of machines, but only on the surface... i never really got around to making any long term music projects with all that gear because of the sheer amount of stuff.
Lately I was thinking about getting just three synths... three really deep and quality synths and stick with that, but i know that my interest in gear will never go away... at some point I will fall in, and buy more stuff anyway... it happened for the last 30 years, so why would it ever stop? might as well get realistic.
When I bought my Tempest and hooked it up along with my REV2, i started to get this irritating feeling again, that "three would not be enough in the long run", and all the negative thoughts about cables and a spoiled overview surfaced again... i really hate that kind of OCD like thinking, but it just happens... every time.
When I think back on the last 6 months, where I decided NOT to buy anything new, and focus ONLY on the REV2, all that went away, and I've never been more productive during those 6 months creating my REV2 soundset... and I believe it stems back from my homecomputer time, where I worked mainly on Commodore 64 and AMIGA computers... I'm used to having ONE machine, and pour all my focus on just ONE machine, trying to get as much out of it as at all possible... I begin to feel the same way about synths.
The problem is that I also have GAS... and always will... so i think now, that the way for me to go is simply to use only ONE synth at any one time, for a given musical project... doing the best with that one synth that I can. When you do harddisk recording it's not really a big problem as I can reuse the same synth over and over again. No, I will not be able to do everything with just one synth, but I can do enough... the last 6 months and all the sounds i made have shown me, that even a simple analog synth like the REV2 can give you enough variety that you can in fact create whole scores with it, and it's a fun challenge actually.
But with the GAS also being an issue, I've decided that I'll buy other synths in the future... i already bought the Tempest as you all know, so the GAS has started already... I'll simply invest in a tall keyboards stand for my living room, and place any synth i do not use on display there... then I can come back and work on other synths as i see fit, but only using one at a time for a project.
The only thing extra that I'll be using is external FX (mainly reverb), but for that I use plugins... I do not want any other hardware cluttering up my small cozy working area, and it also gives me most freedom as plugins can be realtime on tracks, and changed along the way as i see fit... a bit of EQ as well, also via plugin.
The synths I intend to buy will mainly be ones that has keys on them, as i like the idea of everything in one box... a few synths might not come in a keyboard version (like PEAK and Tempest for example), so I'll probably get a compact master controller for these cases.
Before I made the fantasy programs for the REV2 I would never have thought I'd be able to create so varied sounds for Ambient music... i thought that I would have had to have at least 3-4 synths complimenting each other, but I can see now that this is not the case... so using this scheme in the future seems to be my thing.
I do have a few demands when it comes to the synths I'm going to get though... for some reason, 100% digital synths tend to bore me, but i do not think it's because they are digital, it's rather because most of them are so advanced that they an do most everything, and that defies my "genes" when it comes to working under certain limits... thus also big workstations simply bores me to death... i also want polyphony... no monosynths because the lack of polyphony will be devastating on the flexibility, especially in Ambient music that needs loads of pads... Also, I seem to lean towards synths that are at least Hybrid synths, or fully analog... they must have preset memory though, and be relatively easy to edit (preferably with MIDI specs that allow for editors).
Synths that are definitely on my list so far are:
Prophet 12
Prophet X (if the user sample software will be fully functional for ALL features)
Prophet 6 Keyboard
OB 6 Keyboard
Poly Evolver Keyboard
DeepMind 12
PEAK
Quantum
Maybe I'll even set up a small rack system for a few older racksynths I'd like to use again... like Waldorf Microwave for example...
I recall a Commodore 64 game that also happens to be the game with my favourite C64 game music ever that would fit my scheme well... the game was called "One Man and his Droid" ... I'm now the "One Man and his Synth" :D
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maybe I should give it a woman's name :)
Maybe Sycorax?
How the hell did you find that name!? :D ... i had to look it up, and it's obviously a hag in a play called Tempest... a hag is a fantasy creature as well, so yes! ... her name will be Sycorax! ... I think I'll name a patch that! :D
You need to have studied Shakespeare ;)
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maybe I should give it a woman's name :)
Maybe Sycorax?
That should be a mandatory thing — naming your synth after a woman (unless you’re a woman, of course). It just seems a natural fit. In the way that some languages (French, Spanish, Russian, etc.) assign genders to inanimate objects.
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maybe I should give it a woman's name :)
Maybe Sycorax?
That should be a mandatory thing — naming your synth after a woman (unless you’re a woman, of course). It just seems a natural fit. In the way that some languages (French, Spanish, Russian, etc.) assign genders to inanimate objects.
I tend to agree that synthesisers are female. Even the short version is a homonym of a shortened female name, Cynthia-> Cynth.
(Apologies to Razmo for the slight thread hijacking to discuss aesthetics!)
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(Apologies to Razmo for the slight thread hijacking to discuss aesthetics!)
Razmo’s thread has been hijacked for much worse. Every time I think of doing my own “Gear Rant Thread”, I just read this one... I’m often on a similar trajectory as Razmo anyway, so it’s easier to just read his frustration and move on.
Not long ago I pared down to one synth — the PX. Recently, due to GAS and self reflection, I resigned myself to the notion that one won’t do it for me... so I am back to collecting.
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(Apologies to Razmo for the slight thread hijacking to discuss aesthetics!)
Razmo’s thread has been hijacked for much worse. Every time I think of doing my own “Gear Rant Thread”, I just read this one... I’m often on a similar trajectory as Razmo anyway...
Yeah I realise it get's hijacked/sidetracked often, I do tend to lurk on this thread also. Just thought I'd be polite about adding what is essentially the same as a "favourite colour" comment. :)
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It is a rant thread, so a few steps off track is quite alright... I often get irritated myself, when I am asked to stay on topic, especially if what I write is related to the topic ;) ...
Admitted... It is a hard decision... But it will not be more than one to three devices at any one time because I have only three stereo analog inputs to my soundcard, and in no way will I ever introduce a mixer again in hardware.
I am actually thinking it may rather be two devices... Simply one synth and a drummachine per project, mainly because I need the sequencer function of a drummachine for the occational percussion.
I would like to fill in a third device so that all inputs are used though, but I do not feel I would need something save for maybe a kind of sample player... I do not have space for a Prophet X on my desktop though unless I exchange the REV2 for a module version... And that means that the Tempest and Prophet X will allways be two of the machines, and the third would be exchangeable... But the third would always have to be a module then.
It would all be so much easier to simply just use one synth per project and deal with the limitations, than have to blow my mind with these configuration thoughts over and over again...
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I'm at that time of year again where I look at my synth related gear and think I don't use most of this stuff I might as well get rid of it.
So I'm thinking of keeping:
Nord G1, G2 and drum.
Kronos
Integra 7
Origin
PEK
MatrixBrute
MB2S and eurorack stuff.
MPC Live
Push 2
Everything else is going to go to regain some space.
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I'm at that time of year again where I look at my synth related gear and think I don't use most of this stuff I might as well get rid of it.
So I'm thinking of keeping:
Nord G1, G2 and drum.
Kronos
Integra 7
Origin
PEK
MatrixBrute
MB2S and eurorack stuff.
MPC Live
Push 2
Everything else is going to go to regain some space.
What are the everything else's?
And do you really not need any other DSIquential than the PEK?
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I would like to fill in a third device so that all inputs are used though, but I do not feel I would need something save for maybe a kind of sample player... I do not have space for a Prophet X on my desktop though unless I exchange the REV2 for a module version... And that means that the Tempest and Prophet X will allways be two of the machines, and the third would be exchangeable... But the third would always have to be a module then.
You'd be losing a lot of work that you've done on presets, but the PX can fill in the shoes of the REV2 and much more. As for a desktop, a VCO synth would do more to fill in your analog needs. Seems like the most logic well rounded setup.
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I would like to fill in a third device so that all inputs are used though, but I do not feel I would need something save for maybe a kind of sample player... I do not have space for a Prophet X on my desktop though unless I exchange the REV2 for a module version... And that means that the Tempest and Prophet X will allways be two of the machines, and the third would be exchangeable... But the third would always have to be a module then.
You'd be losing a lot of work that you've done on presets, but the PX can fill in the shoes of the REV2 and much more. As for a desktop, a VCO synth would do more to fill in your analog needs. Seems like the most logic well rounded setup.
I've had the thought of PX doing basically what the REV2 does, but I would be afraid that the digital frontend would introduce aliasing, especially in the high frequency content... I can hear the same 11khz harshness in the PX as in the P12... So I would not want to replace the REV2... A VCO synth will not be able to have the same complexity as the REV2 which is very important to me... I want deep engines, and that is why I chose REV2 over both P6 and OB6... There are only one synth that rival it, and that is MOOG ONE .. And I will not pay that price for a poly analog VCO synth.
Anyway, I have taken my decission... One synth per project, and no limits on the number of synths to choose from... Even if I did find three cool synths, I know that new stuff will trigger my GAS in the future, so no need to create a hardwired setup that will be broken sooner or later anyway.
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I've had the thought of PX doing basically what the REV2 does, but I would be afraid that the digital frontend would introduce aliasing, especially in the high frequency content... I can hear the same 11khz harshness in the PX as in the P12... So I would not want to replace the REV2... A VCO synth will not be able to have the same complexity as the REV2 which is very important to me... I want deep engines, and that is why I chose REV2 over both P6 and OB6... There are only one synth that rival it, and that is MOOG ONE .. And I will not pay that price for a poly analog VCO synth.
So it seems if you’re looking to start with a 3 machine setup, a good combination would be a PX, and Rev2 desktop module and the Tempest?
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I've had the thought of PX doing basically what the REV2 does, but I would be afraid that the digital frontend would introduce aliasing, especially in the high frequency content... I can hear the same 11khz harshness in the PX as in the P12... So I would not want to replace the REV2... A VCO synth will not be able to have the same complexity as the REV2 which is very important to me... I want deep engines, and that is why I chose REV2 over both P6 and OB6... There are only one synth that rival it, and that is MOOG ONE .. And I will not pay that price for a poly analog VCO synth.
So it seems if you’re looking to start with a 3 machine setup, a good combination would be a PX, and Rev2 desktop module and the Tempest?
If I was to create a three machine setup, that would probably be it... but I'd have one less than i really want because I want either a P12 or what ever will replace it too... I most certainly want a hybrid with a digital front end, giving me FM, Wavetables etc... I need more options for raw oscillator sounds if I'm to create a hardwired setup. The REV2, P12. Tempest and PX would be optimum for a hardwired setup for me.... but I know that new stuff will come out later that will do something nice, and then I'll be back at changing stuff again... this is why I like the idea of just using a single synth for a project... But actually I'm toying with the idea right now, to actually make it a "two synth setup"... or rather; one drummachine and one synth... I really need the percussion to be playable via an integrated sequencer, and no synth can really guarantee this feature... so I think I'll just stick with that way of doing it... Then I need not buy any modules anymore... only synths with keys and drummachines with sequencers. This seems like the best tradeoff for me... I do not have much desktop space available, and fitting a keyboard and a drummachine is about as far as it will go really... i need access to both easily...
This also release me from constantly thinking about what synths to get for a hardwired setup... plus I've got the first "pairing" already; REV2 and Tempest... then I can stop thinking about the next piece until the time is right and I want to get something new.
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The combination of a REV2, Tempest, P12 or PX strikes me as having too much redundancy. All those can do really interesting complex sounds that the P6 or OB6 can't generate. An analog front end doesn't matter as much when you have that much going on in the sound. However, there's times when playing the OB-6 that I find an almost amplified acoustic instrument character to it that wouldn't quite be found in the others. I guess what I'm trying to say is that its more natural fluctuations is the reason to have a VCO synth in your arsenal.
Anyway, that's just my two cents from experimentation with trying to streamline my setup.
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The combination of a REV2, Tempest, P12 or PX strikes me as having too much redundancy. All those can do really interesting complex sounds that the P6 or OB6 can't generate. An analog front end doesn't matter as much when you have that much going on in the sound. However, there's times when playing the OB-6 that I find an almost amplified acoustic instrument character to it that wouldn't quite be found in the others. I guess what I'm trying to say is that its more natural fluctuations is the reason to have a VCO synth in your arsenal.
Anyway, that's just my two cents from experimentation with trying to streamline my setup.
Certainly... but then again, the other synths are also capable of lots of interesting timbres... which only underlines the point... I will never stop looking at "other girls" when it comes to synths obviously (now that the debate on female synth names has been brought up several times he he)... thus... two synths... a drum machine and a synth for a project... and the rest on display until used again in a later project.
I actually have the same problem as kids and toys... it bores me after some time, but if you put it away for a year and take it forth again, it's suddenly interesting again... that's just how it is with me and synths, so the best solution is to never put a limit on the number of synths, but instead put a limit on how many I use for a given project. :)
Some day I may get an OB6... or/and a P6... who knows...
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I actually just found the 3rd "synth" for my setup anyway... I do not see any harm in having a third device, as long as everything is operated from the device itself, and allow for realtime tweaking of sounds... that is what is important to me.
Having just one synth to play with has a few disadvantages, namely that two things will be missing from most synths that I need; Samples and Percussion.
I still want to swap these three devices with others for each project I'll be doing, but I decided that these three devices must cover these three basic overall needs... Synth, Percussion and Samples.
I've been rather divided in my view on getting a Prophet X... mainly because I would rather have a P12 instead of the PX's downgraded digital oscillators... what I wanted was the two sample oscillators, but what I wanted to use it for is actually vocal phrases, my own acoustic stuff (loops) and digitally generated drones.
I can match these requirements much cheaper, and actually also better performance wise, than with a PX... if I get a KORG KaossPad 3+ ... it has a perfect size for my little space, and has extremely advantageous realtime performance features... plus it can make on the fly loops via microphone from all my acoustic stuff... and i can import prepares samples of drones via SD card... I'd b able to make realtime tweaks on the pad using a lot of fun FX, reording the performance directly into my DAW Audio tracks... much of this I would not be able to do with the PX... and it's a fraction of the price of an X.
I might get an X anyway some day, but taking the KP3+ instead will allow me to get a complete 3-device setup running right now, which is very tempting.
This also make all three devices completely selfcontained... none needs to be controlling the other via MIDI for using them, though I'll probably sync the via clock from the Tempest so that I can match the BPM on all... that would keep everything in sync.
I'll do this... i can feel this is the right way to deal with the situation :)
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I think it's awesome to try and experiment with different setups. I'm not sure if I would limit the number of synths myself but I do think that some interesting combinations might prove to be very successful in finding your own voice, especially if each instrument has a dedicated purpose and sonic quality. It's also good to change things up periodically anyway to avoid tonal fatigue.
Perhaps a good approach is to intentionally stick with a setup for 5 years and produce as much content as possible. Then force yourself to get a new setup for the next 5 years and do the same. That is of course if your intention is to put out actual albums or composed pieces rather than just patches.
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in fact, even though i know it's Curtis filters, the character of the synthesizer in it somehow sounds more rough... better (in my opinion) then the REV2... REV2 seems more "polite"... if it's because of the Tempest's signal path running thru both hipass, compressor and distortion as well or because of the enhanced envelopes (or both) I cannot tell... it just has another sound character than the REV2.
I think you're right. Either way it nails the sound I want for it and I don't think it would be improved by changing the filter like some other DSI synths. I wasn't planning on using it as a synth, but heck, it sounds so darn good that it's going to take the place of my REV2 in my setup. I'll lose 10 voices, some LFOs, a B layer, and some waveshape modulation; however, all the things you mentioned plus the fact that it's a drum machine, has more/better envelopes, and has two digital OSC more than makes up for it. The Tempest and OB-6 is all I really need to make music right now. I'll have to wait and see what Sequential has up their sleeves with the P12 replacement as a digital front end synth with SSI2144 filters would be welcome. My interest also depends on if the module has all the knobs this time around.
One thing I'm still wondering about the Tempest, is there specific entire screen samples pages to scroll through? I'm guessing not, which is a shame.
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in fact, even though i know it's Curtis filters, the character of the synthesizer in it somehow sounds more rough... better (in my opinion) then the REV2... REV2 seems more "polite"... if it's because of the Tempest's signal path running thru both hipass, compressor and distortion as well or because of the enhanced envelopes (or both) I cannot tell... it just has another sound character than the REV2.
I think you're right. Either way it nails the sound I want for it and I don't think it would be improved by changing the filter like some other DSI synths. I wasn't planning on using it as a synth, but heck, it sounds so darn good that it's going to take the place of my REV2 in my setup. I'll lose 10 voices, some LFOs, a B layer, and some waveshape modulation; however, all the things you mentioned plus the fact that it's a drum machine, has more/better envelopes, and has two digital OSC more than makes up for it. The Tempest and OB-6 is all I really need to make music right now. I'll have to wait and see what Sequential has up their sleeves with the P12 replacement as a digital front end synth with SSI2144 filters would be welcome. My interest also depends on if the module has all the knobs this time around.
One thing I'm still wondering about the Tempest, is there specific entire screen samples pages to scroll through? I'm guessing not, which is a shame.
I'm not certain i know what you mean, but the only place to scroll thru samples is in the oscillator sections.
And... yes... I thought so... then I'm not the only one who can hear a difference to the Tempest even though it has the same Curtis chips.... I'd be damned though, if I parted with my REV2 because of that, but that is probably because I'm into ambient pads... 6 voices simply do not cut it for everything, and i have to admit, that doing my bank of presets has made heavy use of the Shape parameter for getting certain tones (especially the plucked string and bowed string sounds). Still, I wish that the REV2 had the Tempest's analog HiPass filter per voice, and also the Filter Feedback... also the extra snappy envelopes would have been very nice to have.
I'm wondering if the sound character is because of other parts after the Curtis chips... maybe better OpAmps were used, I do not know... it just sounds "stronger" in a lack of better words.
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Allright... I've now ordered the KORG KaossPad 3+
This was the third device in an attempt at creating a 3-device setup that would allow for each to cover a certain aspect of a project:
1. The Synth
2. The Drummachine
3. The Sample Player
Any of these three will be subject for exchange on different projects, but I believe it will mainly be the Synth that will actually be exchanged because finding as advanced drummachines as the Tempest, with analog/hybrid specs will be long in between.
The Sample player may be exchanged, depending on the availability of other devices being available that cover the basics. Currently there are none really that will offer anything worth of an exchange, and that is because the KaossPad has a really nice live manipulation control via it's X-Y pad and loads of performance oriented effects, along with the sampling capabilities... this is also the only device that I'll accept being 100% digital... at least until a KaossPad with analog filter built in is a reality.
Having the KaossPad take care of vocal samples, nature samples and various drones etc. also lets me postpone the need for a Prophet X or Quantum until later on... there are other more important synths to look for when samples can be handled by the sample player.
The thing I need the KaossPad 3+ for are generally looped stuff that I can fade in and out directly during recording via the device itself, and manipulate in real time as well. This will be stuff like strange voices/chants/talk etc. that cannot be created synthetically. It also include sustained sounds of acoustic stuff like rattlings/steps/flowing water/wind etc. and the last thing is drones of any kind, both harmonic and inharmonic drones made both by acoustic sounds but also digitally generated ones... in general we're talking about sounds that cannot be changed in pitch during play, as this is not possible on KP3+ ... also, I'm NOT a fan of pitch shifting samples as it makes them sound weird, unless it's drones, but that can be fixed in the sample editing software if I want to. I may use it also for acoustic percussion loops that I record myself (since they will need to be perfectly timed to a certain BPM).
The thing I like about the KP3+ is that it works more like a four track stereo tape recorder... a loops length is determined by the BPM, so this means that all samples must be very carefully created to allow for seamless loops, but I've got software to do just that, so it's not a big problem. Actually all the four tracks you can have, has their loops playing continuously even if the play mode is where you press a button to hear it, and release it to stop it... it'll keep playing "underneath" meaning that any sample playing will always stay completely in sync with each other... it also makes fading the sound in and out more random... it makes the typical "static sample start" problem go away... me like!
All tracks are also in stereo, which is a must... and all the 150 FX in the KP3+ will be of great use to manipulate the sounds in real time as needed... perfect for when I record stuff live into my DAW.
The software that is controlling the KP3+ is also really handy... it will dump samples on the fly via USB, so no need to mess with taking the SD card in and out all the time.
I can also fire one-shot samples from a pad if I like, which is also quite handy... and the device itself is nice and compact, fitting perfectly into my limited desktop space.
The only "bad" thing is the preparation of the samples... because the KP3+ works as a tape machine, the samples actual length (the loop sample) will always be determined by the BPM. therefore, if samples are to play back at their original pitch, the sample must have been specifically prepared to fit the BPM... thus all four samples, if loops, must have exactly the same sample length... if not, some of them will be transposed accordingly. This makes the need for some serious loop mangling techniques, but I've got the proper software for this... the longest sample length is almost 13 seconds per sample which is quite alright, but to have it that long, you'd have to be at 74BPM ... with natural sounds and drones that does not matter, but it may be a challenge with rhythmic stuff...
I tested the software to see how many samples a 16 measure at 74BPM would be, and it's exactly 622.702 samples long... about 12.97 seconds... so any sample not exactly that size will have to be time stretched to that exact size... if not, then seamless looping is not possible... you need to know exactly the size of a sample for any given BPM you will be using in the KP3+
How I will organize my samples I'll have to think more about... especially if all samples in my coming library need to be playing at original sample speeds, and be capable of being mixed in the KP3+ it will have to be standardized... not sure yet how to go about it.
But all in all; it's the best cheap solution right now. It'll allow me to finally get realistic natural sounds into my compositions... that sound of waves on the beach... the sound of the wind... thunder... chanting monks or complex drones... all with a good measure of ways to manipulate in real time to make the samples much more expressive and adaptive.
It's not a melodic approach to samples like it would have been with a Prophet X or Quantum, but i think that is good because the preparation time of samples for that would be huge compared to this ... there are still some preparation, but much of it can be batch processed or fixed quickly and easy... this also means, that when i finally some day get a Prophet X or Quantum, that i can focus on these with only melodic samples in mind, and leave all the other stuff to the KP3+
end of rant... just a "short" update to let you know what's going on in my head (and that's always a lot I'm afraid). :)
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I bought my KP3+ many years ago with the thought it would be a simple sample looper but now use it more for effects.
Something about the KP3+ you might not know is can't keep it's samples in sync very well. It doesn't take long for looping samples to fall out of time and need retriggering often. But if you don't really mind about that then it's not a problem and the machine is great. If you are running drones and other ambient textures then the resample function is cool for morphing them as they are effected while running the pad motion looper.
Load times from card can be awhile if you have long samples but I've never really messed around with running them in from the software (no computer in my room let alone my rig).
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I bought my KP3+ many years ago with the thought it would be a simple sample looper but now use it more for effects.
Something about the KP3+ you might not know is can't keep it's samples in sync very well. It doesn't take long for looping samples to fall out of time and need retriggering often. But if you don't really mind about that then it's not a problem and the machine is great. If you are running drones and other ambient textures then the resample function is cool for morphing them as they are effected while running the pad motion looper.
Load times from card can be awhile if you have long samples but I've never really messed around with running them in from the software (no computer in my room let alone my rig).
I can imagine the problem of samples running out of sync if you use samples of different lengths... even if you have two samples with the same BPM and length, the sample size will most likely not be the same... even one sample off on one of them would make them drift apart at some point... and if it also shift the playback speed to match the lengths, it would also introduce drifting... I bet it's because the four samples are actually free running that they start to drift apart.
I'll be making a lot of tests regarding this anyway... and i have the tools to make all my loops the exact same number of samples in length, so I should be able to figure out if it still drifts in that case.
Anyway, as all four samples will go thru the same FX, I'll probably use only one sample at a time for most stuff... in fact, the only reason to use more than one would be live fading in and out some percussion loops over time... but if that shows to be impossible due to drifting, it does not matter... I've got the Tempest for percussion.
The main uses for the KP3+ is a single seamlessly looped drone/ambience/phrase that I can fade in and out, plus tweak live on the XY pad... so the biggest question is if it can play a sample looped seamlessly... I'm extremely demanding with this... the loop must be EXACTLY as it was when I edited it in Soundforge or other loop editing audio software... I'll hear even one sample off in most cases :)
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I'm wondering if the sound character is because of other parts after the Curtis chips... maybe better OpAmps were used, I do not know... it just sounds "stronger" in a lack of better words.
I've been absolutely loving the sounds the Tempest is capable of. It makes me question if it could be improved by a different filter such as the SSI2144. My current opinion is that it would not. Take the D-50 for example, to me it still has its place whereas more advanced keyboards that are more straight up ROMplers such as the M1 are severely outdated. I find the Tempest reminds me of a much improved D-50, especially considering it's a hybrid. The samples and waveforms are amazing for transients. I'm actually glad I don't have to fuss with importing an endless amount of samples to sort through. I just wish there was blown glass and woodwinds samples, unless they're there and I happened to miss them... The buzzy waveforms are unfortunate, but I would never use them completely bypassing the filter anyhow. I think the filter is fantastic for snappy/percussive sounds and the overall grit adds to the character in a way that's desirable in a drum machine. Folks seem to want a Tempest X, but I think it would lose a lot of standout character with higher fidelity samples, a lusher filter, and no analog oscillators.
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To me, the filter is not the most impotant on a drummachine since it is not the most important factor... The only thing the filter has to have is a self resonating one, since that is all important for kick sounds if you need Tempest for synth sounds too, it is a different matter.
To me, the samples would have been more useful if they were different... In their full state, but as building blocks it may not matter as much. And even if I agree that it is nice to be free from having to decide on your own samples to put in, I would still have liked the option to change the samples to some that I myself find more suitable for my personal use... Not because I want to keep changing them, but rather to put in my own set, and then never change them again. But truly, there is also an advantage having it stay a ROMpler... Especially when I want to release a soundpack for the tempest.
I actually think that if I could choose one single thing to change on Tempest, it would be its lack of a digital FX processor... I would love if it had a digital insert FX per voice with dedicated percussion FX like decimator, distortion, ringmod, compressor, chorus, flanger, phaser, EQ, bit crusher etc. Fully tweakable in the ModMatrix... And then two master FX with sends from each voice for Delays and Reverbs.
This would really enhance the Tempest into something really cool... Yes you can assign individual FX via the outs, but it really complicates matter a lot with cables and a mixer and having to set the FX independently... I much prefer the "FX is part of the program" approach. Especially when FX parameters can be controlled from the ModMatrix.
If I could chose another thing to change, it would be to have some ways to modulate the samples more... Ringmod, FM and Sync between the two sample oscillators like on the Evolver. Currently, the options of modulating the samples is very few, which further makes the urge for changing the samples themselves bigger. I am aware that this limitation is because of the custom sample chip not having these features built in, but there could have been made up for this with a dedicated digital insert FX after the sample chip... A bit like the Character section on the Prophet 12.
But I'll just dream on... And yes, I would like to see a new take on the Tempest... Not without the analog oscillators, but rather one with two analog oscillators (curtis), paired with two digital sample ones with their own SSM clone chips from the PX and user sample option, and a digital FX engine like described above... I'd also like the synth removed, and a more "one voice per drumsound" approach... 16 individual sounds/voices, and a FULL MIDI specification for these 16 sounds being individually controllable from their own MIDI channel, with a mode to play all sounds from a single MIDI channel as well... Essentially seeing the drummachine as sixteen monophonic synths in multimode.
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Can't say I agree at all with your assessment of the filters not being hugely important for a machine like the Tempest, yet I totally agree about the annoyance of "one voice per drum sound." Being forced to record chords in a per note fashion is fairly annoying, but just a few hours ago I found out you can only MIDI out picking one of the 16x2 sound pads, thus I can only sequence another synth monophonically. Pretty stunned about that, which is the one real irksome negative for me.
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Can't say I agree at all with your assessment of the filters not being hugely important for a machine like the Tempest, yet I totally agree about the annoyance of "one voice per drum sound." Being forced to record chords in a per note fashion is fairly annoying, but just a few hours ago I found out you can only MIDI out picking one of the 16x2 sound pads, thus I can only sequence another synth monophonically. Pretty shocked about this and is the biggest negative for me.
i did not mean that the filter is unimportant... I actually meant that the TYPE of filter is not as important (in my opinion)... if it's Curtis or another type is not that crucial I think because the filter in many cases is mostly used to dampen the sound... almost like a sort of "EQ" ... also percussion sounds are so short that a filters character is not so much evident when you hear the drumsound, compared to synth sounds... but a filter is essential nonetheless. This is my experience from all the other times I had the Tempest, and programmed sounds on it.
If the synth part of Tempest is crucial for your use though, I could see why another filter might be attractive.
I knew about the monophonic MIDI sequencing track by the way... and also Tempest's lack of polyphonic sequencer tracking... but I don't really mind this... it becomes a problem when you want to use the built in synth with the sequencer, i know, but i treat my Tempest as a drummachine... not a synth... i see the synth part as an extra bonus, nothing else... if i want to do synth sounds, i use a dedicated synth for this, because Tempest's synth IS limited in many regards, especially if you also use it as a drummachine at the same time... it simply do not have enough voices for this, and I'd rather save the voices for percussion duties, rather than synth duties.
About the MIDI sequencing of external gear... I've been thinking about using that even if it's monophonic, simply because sequencing a bassline would be handy this way... and in that case, a monophonic sequencing is enough... basses do not need polyphony... I've had thoughts about throwing a small desktop analog monosynth at the Tempest for this.
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Then what would you say makes the biggest difference between the character of analog drum sounds? Perhaps this? (http://secretlifeofsynthesizers.com/the-strange-heart-of-the-roland-tr-808/) ;) Even though it's hard to compare due to there being no 4-pole mode on the Rytm, I found its filter to be weak and not to my liking for creating drum sounds regardless of its limiting engine restrictions. How the filter is designed/tweaked makes a massive difference as far as I can tell. Whatever it is, I suspect an updated cleaner version will not have the same amount of desirable textural character. Furthermore, I like the filter for the synth side as well because using the samples as attack transients, makes for great gritty D-50-esque type sounds that are rarer to come by.
I was originally considering adding maybe a AS-1 or SE-02 for monophonic basslines, but so far I've been able to create quite busy sounding arrangements even with its six voice limit. Also I've been able to create bass that's fatter than I expected especially when adding in the digital sine waves. Then I thought about the possibility of using it to sequence my OB-6 if I ever needed to run a stripped down rig sometime, yet it looks like that won't be happening...
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Then what would you say makes the biggest difference between the character of analog drum sounds? It's hard to compare because there's no 4-pole mode on the Rytm; however, I found its filter to be weak and not to my liking for creating drum sounds regardless of its limited synth engine capabilities. How the filter is designed/tweaked makes a massive difference as far as I can tell. Furthermore, I like the filter for the synth side as well because with using the samples as attack transients, makes for great gritty type D-50-esque type sounds. A lusher sounding filter perhaps wouldn't allow for the same amount of textural character.
I was originally considering adding maybe a AS-1 or SE-02 for monophonic basslines, but so far I've been able to create quite busy sounding arrangements even with its six voice limit. Also I've been able to create bass that's fatter than I expected especially when adding in the digital sine waves. Then I thought about perhaps using it to sequence my OB-6 if I ever needed to run a stripped down rig sometime, yet it looks like that won't be happening...
I feel that the engine depth... the possible modulation makes a great deal of the impact... certainly the filter makes a difference, and of course different filters add their own character to the sound, but with synths people talk of thin, harsh, fat etc... i don't feel that is as important with percussion, as long as the oscillators are analog, and the filter too.
What i find much more interesting is the envelopes... if they are not fast, snappy and have peak time like the Tempest, you will have a harder time of creating punchy sounds with it... likewise, having a mod matrix to make EG feedback to change the curvature of the attack/decay/release phase makes a hell of a difference... the ability to reset the oscillators phase on key-on... Audio Mod for bellish/metal character... a lot of other factors than the filter is highly important in creating drumsounds in my opinion.
The Curtis chip is more than capable of creating the low bass frequencies needed for kicks too... the filter self resonates quite extremely which is pretty cool for good sounding kick drums... certainly a lot of other things I'd rather see than another filter type... though I surely would like to HEAR how it would sound with the other newer chip from the PX... but as far as i know, that chip is just a filter... it does not have any oscillators as they are not a "synth on a chip", so if put in the Tempest, it would only make sense on the sample oscillators i guess... unless the signal chain after the Curtis chip would benefit from a second analog filter in series (another interesting thought by the way, especially if there was an analog drive/distortion circuit between them).
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I decided to get rid of the KAOSS PAD ... it did not really click with me for several reasons... but I still need one of my three devices in my setup to be a sample player for different phrases, so I decided to order a Roland SP 404A instead, to see if that would serve me better... i actually think it will because it gives me loads of sampling time compared to the KAOSS PAD... 2G per sound max, and 6 voice polyphony in stereo (12 in mono)... it also have a few really important FX that I miss from the V-Synth, which is the Vinyl simulator and the ability to change formants in a vocal sample. Also, it seems like it is a possible extension to the Tempest for using drumsamples if i need that at some point.
My goal has been to use just three devices in a project (for some time), and the three basic devices i need are one polyphonic synth, one drummachine/synth that can act also like a sequencer for several synth sounds, and a sample player for triggering vocal phrases and sound effects from nature etc.
The Polyphonic synth MUST be a selfcontained synth with a keyboard since I'm not using a DAW with MIDI anymore. It will be used to play live synth parts in my compositions. Thus a built in keyboard is necessary.
The Multitimbral drummachine/synth must be able to run several monophonic sequenced synth sounds (mainly for Berlin School type of compositions)... thus it's important that it can do both a few drums and a few synth tracks, and also sequence these with good features to arrange patterns live... the Tempest is tailor made for this task... it can work as a cool drummmachine, but also as a six track pattern sequencer for synth and bassline sequences that i can trigger and mute at will while recording... the only thing that is missing here is a control keyboard to key in sequences with the synth tracks, but I've just fixed this by ordering a KeyStep controller... this is a good controller, it's compact and will serve it's purpose fine... this also gives me the ability to use the Tempest as a six voice synth from time to time if I want to.
The Phrase Sampler needs to be able to run stereo samples... that is a certain must. It must also be able to play back very long background tracks of nature like oceans, forests etc... playback of drones is also a must, and the occasional fixed FX samples... I want to trigger samples live, so it's also important to be able to do live FX changes, which the SP 404A can also do... that is the basic but essential needs... as a bonus I'll be able to create sample drumbeats via it's pattern function, and sync it up with the Tempest for this purpose... creating loops of real sampled instruments is also possible, and also a great bonus.
With these three devices, i can make pretty much anything I want... The Tempest and SP 404A will most likely be two hardwired devices that will always be present in a project since i cannot see anything else being able to replace them in their function, especially the Tempest... a new SP at some point in the future might replace the SP 404A, but that's about it... they both serve some essential aspects of any project...
The Synth though will be replaceable on a per project basis... and I intend on getting other keyboard synths to use in future projects... currently it's the REV2...
This approach keeps projects simple and minimalistic, but with the still occational GAS infection allowing me to get something new and exiting for the synth part.
This also makes my need for getting either a Quantum or Prophet X less important since I've got sampling capabilities now... I actually think that the next purchase will rather be some keyboard hybrid synth... either a Prophet 12 or whatever replaces it.
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I'm currently creating my homepage for sound design purposes, and the fundamental look (very simple, but I prefer it that way) can be seen here: https://razmo666.wixsite.com/website
I initially tried Wordpress, but damned it, that web designer is confusing and VERY unflexible... never could get any theme to give me what i wanted... I prefer a visually based interface, and found Wix today... and after half a day I made whaat is in the above link.
I'm actually pretty satisfied... though I want to change some things... i want my own video for the front page, and also use my own textures etc., but I'm taking this with babysteps :)
I have decided on another way to release sounds for various hardware synthesizers because I'm not good at these 7 months projects... it was pretty tiresome in the and with "Realms of Fantasy", so in the future I'll do it another way.
My idear is to release small specialized packages with 8 presets in each... I create one preset from scratch going to extreme details in getting this one sound absolutely perfect... then I'll do 7 derivative presets from that one preset... I'll sell these for about 3 dollars on my web page, and when enough has been made to fill out a bank, a full bank will be released too consisting of 16 such smaller packages for those who would rather buy them like a full bank... the advantage for the user is that you can choose more precisely what sounds you want, and which you do not... 3 dollars is a little bit more than the price for a full bank (about 48 dollars if you purchase 16 smaller sets, in contrast to 40 dollars for a full bank).
I think this is an alright way to do this, and the small banks will be pristine quality... the basic preset will be honed to perfection without using an FX slot (I'm talking REV2 here... other synths will come later)... then an FX slot will be added in the end... and only one layer.... this way that preset will have full polyphony, and is dry for use with external FX... this allow for 8 voice REV2s to also have a reasonable amount of polyphony... the derivative presets will use both FX and Layer B for extra ambience and complexity.
I'll post audio demo's along with a custom created picture on my homepage for each and every soundpack and soundbank, and hopefully with a simple PayPal icon to use for payment.
I think that creating presets is more me, than actual music making... though I'll also be featuring my forthcoming music on the homepage...
A bit of a task at hand... but I want to do more than just rant away on forums ;D
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I'm currently creating my homepage for sound design purposes, and the fundamental look (very simple, but I prefer it that way) can be seen here: https://razmo666.wixsite.com/website (https://razmo666.wixsite.com/website)
I initially tried Wordpress, but damned it, that web designer is confusing and VERY unflexible... never could get any theme to give me what i wanted... I prefer a visually based interface, and found Wix today... and after half a day I made whaat is in the above link.
I'm actually pretty satisfied... though I want to change some things... i want my own video for the front page, and also use my own textures etc., but I'm taking this with babysteps :)
I have decided on another way to release sounds for various hardware synthesizers because I'm not good at these 7 months projects... it was pretty tiresome in the and with "Realms of Fantasy", so in the future I'll do it another way.
My idear is to release small specialized packages with 8 presets in each... I create one preset from scratch going to extreme details in getting this one sound absolutely perfect... then I'll do 7 derivative presets from that one preset... I'll sell these for about 3 dollars on my web page, and when enough has been made to fill out a bank, a full bank will be released too consisting of 16 such smaller packages for those who would rather buy them like a full bank... the advantage for the user is that you can choose more precisely what sounds you want, and which you do not... 3 dollars is a little bit more than the price for a full bank (about 48 dollars if you purchase 16 smaller sets, in contrast to 40 dollars for a full bank).
I think this is an alright way to do this, and the small banks will be pristine quality... the basic preset will be honed to perfection without using an FX slot (I'm talking REV2 here... other synths will come later)... then an FX slot will be added in the end... and only one layer.... this way that preset will have full polyphony, and is dry for use with external FX... this allow for 8 voice REV2s to also have a reasonable amount of polyphony... the derivative presets will use both FX and Layer B for extra ambience and complexity.
I'll post audio demo's along with a custom created picture on my homepage for each and every soundpack and soundbank, and hopefully with a simple PayPal icon to use for payment.
I think that creating presets is more me, than actual music making... though I'll also be featuring my forthcoming music on the homepage...
A bit of a task at hand... but I want to do more than just rant away on forums ;D
Sounds like a very logical way to do it. A lot of people sell Kemper profiles in a similar way... Which synths are you going to do this for?
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I'm currently creating my homepage for sound design purposes, and the fundamental look (very simple, but I prefer it that way) can be seen here: https://razmo666.wixsite.com/website (https://razmo666.wixsite.com/website)
I initially tried Wordpress, but damned it, that web designer is confusing and VERY unflexible... never could get any theme to give me what i wanted... I prefer a visually based interface, and found Wix today... and after half a day I made whaat is in the above link.
I'm actually pretty satisfied... though I want to change some things... i want my own video for the front page, and also use my own textures etc., but I'm taking this with babysteps :)
I have decided on another way to release sounds for various hardware synthesizers because I'm not good at these 7 months projects... it was pretty tiresome in the and with "Realms of Fantasy", so in the future I'll do it another way.
My idear is to release small specialized packages with 8 presets in each... I create one preset from scratch going to extreme details in getting this one sound absolutely perfect... then I'll do 7 derivative presets from that one preset... I'll sell these for about 3 dollars on my web page, and when enough has been made to fill out a bank, a full bank will be released too consisting of 16 such smaller packages for those who would rather buy them like a full bank... the advantage for the user is that you can choose more precisely what sounds you want, and which you do not... 3 dollars is a little bit more than the price for a full bank (about 48 dollars if you purchase 16 smaller sets, in contrast to 40 dollars for a full bank).
I think this is an alright way to do this, and the small banks will be pristine quality... the basic preset will be honed to perfection without using an FX slot (I'm talking REV2 here... other synths will come later)... then an FX slot will be added in the end... and only one layer.... this way that preset will have full polyphony, and is dry for use with external FX... this allow for 8 voice REV2s to also have a reasonable amount of polyphony... the derivative presets will use both FX and Layer B for extra ambience and complexity.
I'll post audio demo's along with a custom created picture on my homepage for each and every soundpack and soundbank, and hopefully with a simple PayPal icon to use for payment.
I think that creating presets is more me, than actual music making... though I'll also be featuring my forthcoming music on the homepage...
A bit of a task at hand... but I want to do more than just rant away on forums ;D
Sounds like a very logical way to do it. A lot of people sell Kemper profiles in a similar way... Which synths are you going to do this for?
Any synths that i have access to... which is not very many currently (as can also be seen in the menu of the site) ... But I have plans to aquire more synths when I have the funds to purchase them... but there will probably be quite a lot of time in between them... The next on the list is still a Prophet X or Quantum... time will tell what it will be, but it will not be until about summer I'll be able to buy one... they are not exactly the cheapest... I could end up getting either a P12 or PEAK before that though... very very tempting to get a PEAK to be honest.
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After listening to your great Rev2 patches I would be very interested in what you can achieve with a PEAK... please, please get one! ;-)
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After listening to your great Rev2 patches I would be very interested in what you can achieve with a PEAK... please, please get one! ;-)
I am strongly considering it ;) ... If I get one it will probably be next month... But there is a chance I may return it because there are no specs on its sysex out there, and novation will not part with the information... I would require that I can create an editor for it, and without detailed info on sysex specs, it will be a daunting task at reverse engineering the sysex format... I have done this on earlier novation gear though with success, and would give it a go if I get one, but certain things could spoil the effort, and if that happens I would probably return it... I hate creating sounds on synths with multiple functions per knob... I want to be able to see all and every parameter :)
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I just ordered a PEAK... decided to wait saving up for the Prophet X... i still want to make 100% certain that the whole featureset of the Sample Import will become a reality... i simply do not trust Sequential when they give such responsibility to a company that also want to profit from making sample packs... so I'll wait and see... i want ALL the functionality in that sample import application to be there before i ever invest in a Prophet X.
On top of that, I'm wondering how much of it's steep price is down to the collaboration with 8DIO... personally I would have made all disk space free for user samples... at least the option to do this... i do not want to use others material when it comes to samples, so it's a waste of disk space in my case.
I decided on the peak after i did a thorough bit of research on it's SysEx specs, and i actually think I can pull of an editor in SoundDiver for it... i found SysEx info on the Basstation II, and can see that it's straightforward, so i believe that the PEAK will be too... I checked it's SysEx dump, and it looks to be what I expected without having any real details on it.
Why the PEAK? ... several reasons... the FPGA quality of the digital oscillators make it REALLY tempting because it lowers aliasing with both FM, AM but also the wavetable part of PEAK... I really want to have wavetable functionality because that gives many options for sounds in my genre (Ambient) .. .I do not care if they are not user importable because with all those available since OS 1.2, I'll be covered for most stuff, and also there will not be the added problem of making user wavetables accessible with presets as well... I like that everyone with a PEAK has the same stuff, no matter what... no need to import wavetables... they are already there. Also I'm fascinated that this synth has one of the best reverbs in a synth... especially for Ambient stuff... yes I can use external reverbs, but it's nice to be able to create soundbanks with "all included" so the reverb is a really nice touch.
I'm certainly looking forward to taking the PEAK on a serious Ambient journey :) ... so I've now added a menu item on my webpage that is for the PEAK... I'm still working hard on my homepage (mostly the layout, graphics and stuff)
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I just ordered a PEAK... decided to wait saving up for the Prophet X... i still want to make 100% certain that the whole featureset of the Sample Import will become a reality... i simply do not trust Sequential when they give such responsibility to a company that also want to profit from making sample packs... so I'll wait and see... i want ALL the functionality in that sample import application to be there before i ever invest in a Prophet X.
On top of that, I'm wondering how much of it's steep price is down to the collaboration with 8DIO... personally I would have made all disk space free for user samples... at least the option to do this... i do not want to use others material when it comes to samples, so it's a waste of disk space in my case.
I decided on the peak after i did a thorough bit of research on it's SysEx specs, and i actually think I can pull of an editor in SoundDiver for it... i found SysEx info on the Basstation II, and can see that it's straightforward, so i believe that the PEAK will be too... I checked it's SysEx dump, and it looks to be what I expected without having any real details on it.
Why the PEAK? ... several reasons... the FPGA quality of the digital oscillators make it REALLY tempting because it lowers aliasing with both FM, AM but also the wavetable part of PEAK... I really want to have wavetable functionality because that gives many options for sounds in my genre (Ambient) .. .I do not care if they are not user importable because with all those available since OS 1.2, I'll be covered for most stuff, and also there will not be the added problem of making user wavetables accessible with presets as well... I like that everyone with a PEAK has the same stuff, no matter what... no need to import wavetables... they are already there. Also I'm fascinated that this synth has one of the best reverbs in a synth... especially for Ambient stuff... yes I can use external reverbs, but it's nice to be able to create soundbanks with "all included" so the reverb is a really nice touch.
I'm certainly looking forward to taking the PEAK on a serious Ambient journey :) ... so I've now added a menu item on my webpage that is for the PEAK... I'm still working hard on my homepage (mostly the layout, graphics and stuff)
Exciting! Looking forward to hearing what you create on this. When’s it due?
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Congratulations. I'm sure you will not regret it. It's a very very very nice synth. And as I said before: I'm very looking forward to your first sound examples.
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Prophet X and Peak are the two I'm most interested in as well, but I just pulled the trigger on an AS-1 because I wanted something with the SSM-based filter. Think I'll chill for now on synths until (or rather if) Sequential releases a Tempest type machine based on PX tech. Although I'm still not sure about having to be buggered with an endless amount of samples...
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I am jealous of you Razmo.
Last time I played with a Peak in-store I did seriously question my spending on modules for the previous 4mths. It is the sort of synth I could program a texture on, hit a note and let it sit and evolve over a period of 5min, very happy that it'd be creating a sound which would engage the mind and not become just a drone in the background.
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I am jealous of you Razmo.
Last time I played with a Peak in-store I did seriously question my spending on modules for the previous 4mths. It is the sort of synth I could program a texture on, hit a note and let it sit and evolve over a period of 5min, very happy that it'd be creating a sound which would engage the mind and not become just a drone in the background.
But drones are cool too... especially if you're into Ambient stuff ;D ... but yes... that is also the impression I've got from watching a lot of demo's of the PEAK over the last week or two... it has a really big potential, and it certainly has all of the elements I'd look for in a unique hybrid synth... it only have the Prophet 12 as a contender in it's price range, but even then, those two are still quite different with each their strengths and weaknesses... so I WILL be getting myself a Prophet 12 one day in the future.
But I need a loooong break from buying gear now, and start being creative again... I've already got a Tempest sitting here looking at me for some love :) ... actually I broke my own wow to myself, waiting 6 months between purchases... not good... GAS is evil! ... but now I have to make up for it :)
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Basically, the reason that I did not wait another 6 months before getting the PEAK is that while I made sounds for the REV2, I really went deep in what I could squeeze out of the analog oscillators... I found that a lot of the magic in other tones than the usual Saw, Tri and Sqr was in the Shape parameter, and actually blending the two oscillators with different shape values... but still, the shape parameter sound more or less like PWM in different flavors, so I quickly saw the advantages of using wavetable oscillators instead.
The reason is that I've begun thinking about sound design at "single sound sources"... if you pluck a string, blow a flute or bow a string etc... it is always just one "oscillator"... this is what makes those sounds so pure... when you start to mix another oscillator you get beating and all other kind of fattening, that is generally two sound sources playing in unison... I like the sound design idea of concentrating a lot of the more playable sounds to one oscillator sounds.
With the REV2 there is not many options for tonal variation in a single oscillator... but you can use a few tricks to obtain it... one is to sync the oscillator waveforms of both oscillators and then set both to the same pitch, or in harmonically appropriate differences in pitch... then you will get what sounds like one oscillator, but can change both shape and waveforms on them to create new single oscillator timbres... you can also do this with Sync which gives even more options for this approach... but you do not get much modulation into these tones... you can modulate the shape parameter, and that's about it.
That is where wavetables become interesting... they allow me to make a lot of modulation that has much more subtle influence on the timbre... not just harsh PWM like modulation like with REV2... and with all those 60 wavetables on PEAK's OS 1.2 it should be fun to see what types of sounds I can come up with... at the same time I can use the other two oscillators to FM the first for even more control... summa summarum; the point is to have lots of modulation possibility of that one oscillator, so that it can sound both complex and modulated, but still be only ONE sound source... no beating frequencies etc.
I find that this "one oscillator approach" makes for a lot clearer and more distinct sounding instruments for playing melodies etc... also, it seems to make the sounds less muddy when played with chords etc... probably because too many sound sources ending up playing in the same frequency area will muddy things up... I just find that these single sound source instruments sounds much clearer... they also do not eat up all of the frequency spectrum.
I've been wanting to play with this idea for some time now, and I bought the PEAK just to be able to try out some idear like this...
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My website is basically up and ready for some content now: https://razmo666.wixsite.com/website
It has undergone quite some graphical changes lately, but i like the layout as it is now.. simple and to the point. I count on subscribing to one of WIX's plans, so that I can get more storage and get rid of those adds on the site... but I want to get the site running first, and see how it goes.
I earlier talked about selling my 8-presets sound packs for 3 US$, but decided against it simply because PayPal's fees would eat up way too much of the sale this way... instead I have decided to meet halfway on this, so instead of purchasing sounds a single pack at a time, you select 16 sound packs instead, from the ones available, and then I'll compile a full bank with these to any bank one would want (user 1-4 and factory 1-4). This way the user still have the freedom to choose what packs to purchase at least. It will be some time though, until sales can begin because I would have to create more than 16 sound packs for this to make any sense. I may create another option that allow you to mix sound packs from different synthesizers though... the idea is 128 presets for 40 US$, and sending two half banks for two different synth would not pose a problem for me.
When I start the project of creating these soundpacks, I'll pot a topic in the relevant forum with demo's and the usual rants about how I created them, with links to the demos etc. so stay tuned for that... the knowledge of preset creation is not something I intend to keep a secret (I've stated that before), so let's discuss sound design in that thread once it's up :)
Currently I'm waiting to get my PEAK home... i ordered it from France since there were some good offers on EBAY, and Thomann from where I usually buy my gear do not have them in their product range anymore... I asked them about it in an email, and the response was that it was not certain they would have this device anymore, but they did request their buyer's personel about it and would return... I'm still wondering why this is... but as things stand now, I really don't care anyway :)
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alread
I wanted something with the SSM-based filter.Although I'm still not sure about having to be buggered with an endless amount of samples...
I already added another machine with the same filter in the SP-16. Found too good of a deal to pass up, but now I have to deal with picking one hit samples to import. Grrr.
Hopefully my GAS has finally subsided...
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alread I wanted something with the SSM-based filter.Although I'm still not sure about having to be buggered with an endless amount of samples...
I already added another machine with the same filter in the SP-16. Found too good of a deal to pass up, but now I have to deal with picking one hit samples to import. Grrr.
Hopefully my GAS has finally subsided...
That is also what makes me hesitate regarding both Quantum and Prophet X (besides the price tag of course)... all the hard work of creating and picking the samples to use, and set them up properly in the sampler/synth... but then again... i enjoy going out with my microphone and record all manner of crazy things that I have a lot of ideas for... but almost always, the sample work end up being cumbersome, boring and repetitive, and on top of that, the choices in what to include and what to leave out is tiring... that is why I actually like the idea of not using samples at all.
Many of the things I'd be using samples for is nothing but because of laziness, designing similar sounds with synthesis instead... but there are situations where samples is the only way, especially when it comes to vocals and sounds from nature... but these types of sounds rarely need much synthesis going on... they could be done using a simple sample player... but finding one that i like is hard to be honest, and when you're recording on harddisk tracks anyway, you could as well save that money and import the .wav files directly into a DAW track.... it's limited as to how much realtime performance action you would be doing on these types of samples anyway.
So I more or less decided to wait with a sample synthesizer for now... I'm still interested in the Prophet X for pure sample synthesis stuff, but the price is putting me off to say the least... i do not get why this machine has to cost almost the double of the other devices that Sequential produce... but I bet it has something to do with 8DIO and those samples that I'll NEVER be using anyway... and that thought piss me off... paying that much for something I'm not going to use anyway... I really wish they had made the Prophet X free from factory samples to get that price addition out of the way really... that is why I might end up with a Quantum instead actually... at least you can erase what you do not need in that... time will tell...
but right now, I'm happy with what I've got... REV2, PEAK and TEMPEST... I can already do quite a lot with just these three devices...
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Agreed, I really hope the SP-16 allows me to erase the factory content. I have no use for loops or house/EDM (or whatever they call it these days) samples that this machine seems to cater. Just knowing that stuff is there bugs me.
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That is also what makes me hesitate regarding both Quantum and Prophet X (besides the price tag of course)... all the hard work of creating and picking the samples to use, and set them up properly in the sampler/synth... but then again... i enjoy going out with my microphone and record all manner of crazy things that I have a lot of ideas for... but almost always, the sample work end up being cumbersome, boring and repetitive, and on top of that, the choices in what to include and what to leave out is tiring... that is why I actually like the idea of not using samples at all.
Many of the things I'd be using samples for is nothing but because of laziness, designing similar sounds with synthesis instead... but there are situations where samples is the only way, especially when it comes to vocals and sounds from nature... but these types of sounds rarely need much synthesis going on... they could be done using a simple sample player... but finding one that i like is hard to be honest, and when you're recording on harddisk tracks anyway, you could as well save that money and import the .wav files directly into a DAW track.... it's limited as to how much realtime performance action you would be doing on these types of samples anyway.
So I more or less decided to wait with a sample synthesizer for now... I'm still interested in the Prophet X for pure sample synthesis stuff, but the price is putting me off to say the least... i do not get why this machine has to cost almost the double of the other devices that Sequential produce... but I bet it has something to do with 8DIO and those samples that I'll NEVER be using anyway... and that thought piss me off... paying that much for something I'm not going to use anyway... I really wish they had made the Prophet X free from factory samples to get that price addition out of the way really... that is why I might end up with a Quantum instead actually... at least you can erase what you do not need in that... time will tell...
but right now, I'm happy with what I've got... REV2, PEAK and TEMPEST... I can already do quite a lot with just these three devices...
Maybe Sequential could be convinced that a PX without the samples and inflated price could be marketable. From what I've read it seems like it isn't really a full blown sampler on the level of say even an old Akai S-5000. (I had 3 at one point) But what else is out there right now that...
1. Samples
2. Has 16 voices
3. Features a professional keybed.
4. Has lots of knobs for real time mangle mayhem?
5. Has stereo analogue filters.
6. Features a full on digital synth as well.
Besides the Quantum, I can't think of anything else on the market at the moment. Seems like it might be pretty easy to just strip it all out and sell the unit as an empty shell. People could always buy the samples later if they wanted. This would/could possibly even open it up to other 3rd party sample developers. Seems 8DIO have it locked up exclusively as is. I can't think of another professional sampler ever that was tied to one content developer exclusively. Maybe this isn't the case though?
Anyway, I would have to take a hard look at this fictional product if it came in under 3k.
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The problem is that Sequential, once again outsourced the sample work, and in this case also the software work for the sample import into the hands of a third party company... 8DIO has control of the sample import software and its development, leaving all users under their mercy... If Sequential released an empty PX, then 8DIO would probably charge users for the sample import utility...
In my opinion, Sequential should have taken the responsibility of both the samples and software themselves... But delivering 150GB of samples and the software to import was probably too much work and to boring for them to want to do it... And the result is clear... 8DIO is clearly sitting inside the PX with the keys to unlock the user sample part any way they want to... Exactly as when Sequential decided to go for a custom third party sample chip in the Tempest.
Sequential could release an empty PX if they would... And I hope they will... But they would have to create the sample import software themselves then i think, because I bet that some kind of contract was made with 8DIO that secure their ability to profit from their colaboration... The worst in my opinion is that they completely control the sample import features as things stand right now, and I am still waiting to see if they grab the whole PX community by the *** and leave out certain features, so they can profit on their own sample packs having better features than users... Otherwise anyone else could come out with competing sound packs... In fact that small 50GB free space could quickly get used up, as loads of other sample pack companies might create for the PX.
I already asked about the ability to erase the factory samples, but was wiped of the table instantly with a comment about "just pretend the factory samples are not there"... Like that would free up the space for other samples ::)
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I am jealous of you Razmo.
Last time I played with a Peak in-store I did seriously question my spending on modules for the previous 4mths. It is the sort of synth I could program a texture on, hit a note and let it sit and evolve over a period of 5min, very happy that it'd be creating a sound which would engage the mind and not become just a drone in the background.
But drones are cool too... especially if you're into Ambient stuff ;D ... but yes... that is also the impression I've got from watching a lot of demo's of the PEAK over the last week or two... it has a really big potential, and it certainly has all of the elements I'd look for in a unique hybrid synth... it only have the Prophet 12 as a contender in it's price range, but even then, those two are still quite different with each their strengths and weaknesses... so I WILL be getting myself a Prophet 12 one day in the future.
But I need a loooong break from buying gear now, and start being creative again... I've already got a Tempest sitting here looking at me for some love :) ... actually I broke my own wow to myself, waiting 6 months between purchases... not good... GAS is evil! ... but now I have to make up for it :)
Yes drones are good in many circumstances, I even own a 555-timer based 6 osc drone for such duties. But I was more trying to imply that some synths can sound like a droning mathematics physics teacher with a monotonic voice. Physics is fun and I did elect to study it in senior highschool, but for the first year the teacher was exactly what I just described. My class mates tended to fall asleep he was just that boring. In the second year he was replaced with a better teacher who was that good at addressing the class and engaging us that we managed to complete the two year syllabus in that one year! She inspired us all to learn and to excel. Miss Fennel was like the Peak of physics education ;)
Now I need to read through the amazing amounts of text you have posted after your reply to my post. I am a astounded as to the amount of typing you did today! ;D
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Now I need to read through the amazing amounts of text you have posted after your reply to my post. I am a astounded as to the amount of typing you did today! ;D
I'm forever grateful that my mom saw the direction everything was headed and made me take a typing class in high school.
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The first trio is complete now :)
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Looking good. How do you like the Peak so far?
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Looking good. How do you like the Peak so far?
A lot actually... it's a rather capable synth in it's own right, and when it comes to hybrids, I'd say that it's the best I've heard, sound quality wise.. it' that 24MHz digital front end i suppose, that does the trick. And I am also very surprised of the build quality... very very sturdy and well built design... layout is perfect too, and of course the options in both synthesis types and engine depth makes this a keeper, I'm 100% certain of that. also, the knobs must be bolted to the frontplate, they don't wobble as much as a mm at all, and buttons are very sturdy with a firm "CLICK!" to them...
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The first trio is complete now :)
Wow, that is so clean and tidy.
I must admit I’m getting to the end of hundreds of cables and patch bays where really all I need is something like that.
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Looking good. How do you like the Peak so far?
A lot actually... it's a rather capable synth in it's own right, and when it comes to hybrids, I'd say that it's the best I've heard, sound quality wise.. it' that 24MHz digital front end i suppose, that does the trick. And I am also very surprised of the build quality... very very sturdy and well built design... layout is perfect too, and of course the options in both synthesis types and engine depth makes this a keeper, I'm 100% certain of that. also, the knobs must be bolted to the frontplate, they don't wobble as much as a mm at all, and buttons are very sturdy with a firm "CLICK!" to them...
I was just asking because my first impression of it at Superbooth 2017 was a bit meh. But that encounter also didn't take place under ideal conditions, as my time with it was rather limited and I was sitting in an extremely crowded room. I do remember the solid build quality, though, and I liked the filter and the effects. Dave Spiers' recent presets made me curious again.
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The first trio is complete now :)
Wow, that is so clean and tidy.
I must admit I’m getting to the end of hundreds of cables and patch bays where really all I need is something like that.
Believe me, I've been there as well... i just could not stand the clutter at last, so I've made a deal with myself; 3 synths connected at once, and I want ALL to be within arms reach... I accomplished that goal now... I have keyboard and mouse in front of me, a REV2 right behind those (with keys) and a 4K monitor behind that, and monitors placed at each side... to the left as you can see, I've got a small laptop stand which fit the last two synths which MUST be desktop units.
I managed to find a special MIDI Y cable which I use from my REV2 MIDI DIN output, so that I can connect it and control both desktop modules from the REV2's keyboard (I'm not using MIDI in my DAW anymore, only audio recording... i only use USB MIDI with my computer for editors). That saved me from buying a MIDI THRU box, or daisychaining them.
This means that all three synths trigger when i play on the keyboard, but I simply turn down the volume on those I do not use when recording... no big deal, and it also allow me to easily layer the three if I want to.
I'm not sure yet if the REV2 will be exchanged for a module version at some point, that depend on what I decide to do about Prophet X or Quantum.
But summa summarum; I'll always be getting new synths... I simply cannot control that part, it will always be like that... but those not in use will simply be stored while not in use.
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Looking good. How do you like the Peak so far?
A lot actually... it's a rather capable synth in it's own right, and when it comes to hybrids, I'd say that it's the best I've heard, sound quality wise.. it' that 24MHz digital front end i suppose, that does the trick. And I am also very surprised of the build quality... very very sturdy and well built design... layout is perfect too, and of course the options in both synthesis types and engine depth makes this a keeper, I'm 100% certain of that. also, the knobs must be bolted to the frontplate, they don't wobble as much as a mm at all, and buttons are very sturdy with a firm "CLICK!" to them...
I was just asking because my first impression of it at Superbooth 2017 was a bit meh. But that encounter also didn't take place under ideal conditions, as my time with it was rather limited and I was sitting in an extremely crowded room. I do remember the solid build quality, though, and I liked the filter and the effects. Dave Spiers' recent presets made me curious again.
I also think it depend on what type of sound one likes... maybe also what genre you prefer to make yourself... I certainly do not feel any "meh" at all... it is certainly not a booming MOOG in character... but that's not what I want from it anyway, but I feel it's filters are a nice and different style compared to the Curtis ones... but for me, my full opinion is based not on single things but rather the whole package together, and when I do that, I find nothing else that will do better or the same save maybe a Quantum because that is the synth that probably comes closest... maybe also Prophet 12...
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I also think it depend on what type of sound one likes... maybe also what genre you prefer to make yourself... I certainly do not feel any "meh" at all... it is certainly not a booming MOOG in character... but that's not what I want from it anyway, but I feel it's filters are a nice and different style compared to the Curtis ones... but for me, my full opinion is based not on single things but rather the whole package together, and when I do that, I find nothing else that will do better or the same save maybe a Quantum because that is the synth that probably comes closest... maybe also Prophet 12...
Yeah, to be fair: My first encounter with it took place under less than ideal conditions. And I generally don't care too much about isolated elements either. It's just that a filter sweep and messing around with a reverb and a delay is done quicker than building a complex patch from scratch in a noisy environment.
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I also think it depend on what type of sound one likes... maybe also what genre you prefer to make yourself... I certainly do not feel any "meh" at all... it is certainly not a booming MOOG in character... but that's not what I want from it anyway, but I feel it's filters are a nice and different style compared to the Curtis ones... but for me, my full opinion is based not on single things but rather the whole package together, and when I do that, I find nothing else that will do better or the same save maybe a Quantum because that is the synth that probably comes closest... maybe also Prophet 12...
Yeah, to be fair: My first encounter with it took place under less than ideal conditions. And I generally don't care too much about isolated elements either. It's just that a filter sweep and messing around with a reverb and a delay is done quicker than building a complex patch from scratch in a noisy environment.
Well... after i have tried the onboard presets, I found a few which suits my style of genre (Ambient), and they sounded really really good to my ears... and when i quickly dialed in some long reverb it just sounded magical... so I'm not in doubt about this synth at all... I know that I should take the factory presets with a grain of salt, especially because Novation is usually a bunch of EDM/TRANCE type sounds (as with most synths these days) ... I guess I've learned to listen "past that"... I'm fully certain that the PEAK is a really good machine for Ambient music, and then I cannot be any happier :)
Compared to my REV2 I can certainly hear a character difference though... The REV2 is probably a tad bit warmer and fuzzy in comparison... I think that the REV2 will probably fare better at thick stringsounds... or maybe not better... just different really... this is probably because of the analog oscillators. The Tempest with it's grungy digital oscillators are different again... more rough... it reminds me more of the Evolver character...
But the main reason to get the PEAK was to get access to wavetables and FM synthesis... I feel it does that job better than the Prophet 12 did really... mainly because it does not have that band limit sound in addition to the harsh digital sound of audio rate modulation happening at 11KHz... Prophet 12 though has other advantages in my opinion... dual layers plus 12 voices being probably the most interesting... If I'll ever get one of those again only time will tell... it depend on how much of it will be included in the next hybrid flagship from Sequential... if any...
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I also think it depend on what type of sound one likes... maybe also what genre you prefer to make yourself... I certainly do not feel any "meh" at all... it is certainly not a booming MOOG in character... but that's not what I want from it anyway, but I feel it's filters are a nice and different style compared to the Curtis ones... but for me, my full opinion is based not on single things but rather the whole package together, and when I do that, I find nothing else that will do better or the same save maybe a Quantum because that is the synth that probably comes closest... maybe also Prophet 12...
Yeah, to be fair: My first encounter with it took place under less than ideal conditions. And I generally don't care too much about isolated elements either. It's just that a filter sweep and messing around with a reverb and a delay is done quicker than building a complex patch from scratch in a noisy environment.
To actually sit (or stand) and play with one actually turning the dials and playing with a keyboard is so much better than watching a demo anywhere. I hadn't been taken in such a way since I plugged in my XTk for the first time. It's one hell of a programmer's synth!
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I have been looking at the SysEx request and dumps of the PEAK tonight (well... it's almost morning now)... This was what I was most scared about, getting a PEAK since Novation will not part with the specs, even if you ask them (I've read somewhere)... I needed to know a bit about this before I took the plunge and bought a PEAK, so I accidentally found a reverse engineered spec for the Bass Station 2 and assumed that it would probably be very close, and it did look to work well with SoundDiver which I'll be doing an editor for, so I took the chance not fully knowing if it would be the same for the PEAK. I did look at the hex values of a PEAK program dump prior to buying too, and it looked promising.
...and it was... it was actually quite easy to reverse engineer both request and dump sysex strings... the only one that gave me problems was the request macros, but I simply loaded the demo of the one editor available for the PEAK at the moment, and used a LoopBack app to steal the request macros... piece of cake really.
So I've set up the basics for the editor... I can now request both Settings, Current Patch and all four banks of patches, and I can send them back as well.
The next job (when I've slept) will be to analyze all of the single parameters and write a table with settings and bitfields... That will take some time (it always does when you have to analyze it)... it's a tedious job... have to request the current patch and look at it's hex values, then change a parameter on the PEAK and request the patch again to see where in the dump the change occurs... write down the offset, range and bitfield... for each and every parameter.
PEAK has a patch storage size of exactly 512 MIDI bytes... though a great deal of them (about a fourth to a third of them) do not seem to be used yet, so there is definitely space left for future additions... if any will ever come... One thing I'd like to see as a new feature in PEAK is a modulation sequencer like on the REV2/Evolver.
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I think I've found my dream synthesizer... yes... Novation PEAK... that machine simply shines beyond anything else I've seen so far in aspects of everything... I'm not going to name all the things I like about it because it would be a lengthy list to be honest... still, the only thing i would wish for is a modulation sequencer... other than that, I'm 100% satisfied with this synth.
In fact it's so good I'm heavilly thinking about changing my 3-synth setup to be a very simple one consisting of a synth with a good quality motherkeyboard, and some kind of ability to use sample synthesis which is basically the only thing not on the PEAK... I'm not going for a Prophet X... I simply cannot deal with the 8DIO thing of this machine, so it'll be the Waldorf Quantum... that synth gives me sampling and a few other synthesis types that PEAK does not have, and a high quality TP/8S FATAR keybed.
The last two synths will simply be two PEAKs... yes... two! ... the only thing I cannot do with the PEAK that I love about the Sequential/DSI synths is dual layering... but with two PEAKS, and them connected to the Quantum via my special MIDI Y cable, I'd basically have a 3 layer combined synth.
I'd be free from the mediocre FX of the REV2 (which will go) as the PEAK has superb FX for Ambient stuff, and thus I can also omit the usage of FX plugins in my DAW, using the DAW only for audio recording of tracks.
This small and compact setup has huge potential for what I want to do... I could stop buying synths right there, and just focus on these three synths, which will also be good for me... I'd rather be a master of two, than jack of all trades on an ocean of synths really.
Tempest should go as well... stupid as it may sound... but I can do percussion just as well with both PEAK and Quantum with both synthesis and samples... I'd be free from all that irritating SysEx editor s*** ... The Quantum has a huge color touch screen, so an editor will not be necessary, and PEAK is so easy to edit from the front panel that an editor would not be needed really... even though I'm doing a SoundDiver adaption for it, just in case i want to use it.
Yeah yeah... i know you're thinking "he's changing it all again"... yes I am... but this is it... I want it this way now, I can feel it... so that's where I'm aiming at now... The Quantum will be a while, as it's expensive, so I'll aim at the second PEAK first, and selling the Tempest, and then use REV2 as master controller until the Quantum is here.
From there, the only other thing I'll need is a microphone for recording samples for the Quantum... then I'm done... set for what I should have been doing for the last 25+ years: MAKE MUSIC! :)
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I give this setup....two weeks before another “This is it...” post. ;)
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I give this setup....two weeks before another “This is it...” post. ;)
I HAVE to say "You're wrong!" ;D
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FWIW, I loooove the Quantum so far, and it's really almost eliminated my GAS.
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I give this setup....two weeks before another “This is it...” post. ;)
I HAVE to say "You're wrong!" ;D
Okay, two and a half weeks…
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FWIW, I loooove the Quantum so far, and it's really almost eliminated my GAS.
Can you say a bit about how the Sample import works? have you looked into that? ... are you using the same SPECTRE app like with the Blofeld for this?
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I give this setup....two weeks before another “This is it...” post. ;)
I HAVE to say "You're wrong!" ;D
Okay, two and a half weeks…
NO! ... FOREVEEEEEEER!!!! :o
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I give this setup....two weeks before another “This is it...” post. ;)
I HAVE to say "You're wrong!" ;D
Okay, two and a half weeks…
3 weeks, max... :D
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Allright... the dual PEAKS (or TWIN PEAKS maybe) may have been a bit hasted, but I simply love this synth... so much I actually thought about designing my own little electronic "polychainer" for them... a simple little device that would take incomming noteons, and cycle between sending them out again on two different MIDI channels... then when one PEAK is connected to the other via MIDI THRU, and set individually to the two different MIDI channels, I'd be able to make them into a 16 voice PEAK... don't know if there already are such a device out there... if, then i do not know about it... it would be rather simple to create with a microprocessor and a few components...
But honestly... i think i can do with 8 voices... I've found that you need about double the polyphony of any chord you play for it to suffice, so four note chords will have to do... Quantum is also 8 voices, so I'll just settle with that i think.
The last slot in my 3 synth setup will probably be saved until the day comes, that something truly amazing that complement a Quantum and PEAK comes along... that will probably be some time, but it would certainly need to be unique because with a Quantum and PEAK I'd say I'm really well covered in synthesis techniques... Subtractive, FM, Wavetable, Sample, Granular, Resonator and that new update Waldorf just made to the Quantum... I've got both LP, HP and BP analog filters in both 12 and 24 dB modes... ring modulators too... to be honest, analog oscillators are not that big a deal for me in the end, so hybrids are fine with me... I can do pretty much the same stuff I did on the REV2 with the PEAK...
and by the way... I'm more than half way thru reverse engineering the SysEx specs for PEAK now... it's rather simple and faster than anticipated... but I don't even know if I'll ever use that editor I want to create, simply because the user interface on PEAK is so intuitive that it's almost a fast editing on it directly, and I really like the thought of not having to rely on that old SoundDiver app any longer... that may very well happen since the Quantum looks to be just as easy to edit because of it's large screen...
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FWIW, I loooove the Quantum so far, and it's really almost eliminated my GAS.
Can you say a bit about how the Sample import works? have you looked into that? ... are you using the same SPECTRE app like with the Blofeld for this?
I haven't yet, but others on GS have. It depends what you want it for--if you want to convert it to a wavetable the ideal length is around 9 seconds, and also you have to make sure your input levels are high enough to get a good recording when using it. I think it only takes one file format to convert to a wavetable (AIFF or wav, would have to look to make sure), but it reads both formats internally for the sampler/particle engine. There are a good number of samples in AIFF format on there already, mostly from the sound designers they hired.
There are some improvements to make that import and conversion more flexible in the next release and even more in the 2.0 release. Rolf is in the thread on Gearslutz and has been super informative.
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FWIW, I loooove the Quantum so far, and it's really almost eliminated my GAS.
Can you say a bit about how the Sample import works? have you looked into that? ... are you using the same SPECTRE app like with the Blofeld for this?
I haven't yet, but others on GS have. It depends what you want it for--if you want to convert it to a wavetable the ideal length is around 9 seconds, and also you have to make sure your input levels are high enough to get a good recording when using it. I think it only takes one file format to convert to a wavetable (AIFF or wav, would have to look to make sure), but it reads both formats internally for the sampler/particle engine. There are a good number of samples in AIFF format on there already, mostly from the sound designers they hired.
There are some improvements to make that import and conversion more flexible in the next release and even more in the 2.0 release. Rolf is in the thread on Gearslutz and has been super informative.
OK thanks... it was not as much the wavetable convertion I was most interrested in, just rather the import of samples and how it's done setting them up... I know that they support multisamples so there must be some kind of software that will allow you to set them up, if it's not done entirely on the synth itself... but if it can sample I suppose it would have to have onboard multisample setup features...
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OK thanks... it was not as much the wavetable convertion I was most interrested in, just rather the import of samples and how it's done setting them up... I know that they support multisamples so there must be some kind of software that will allow you to set them up, if it's not done entirely on the synth itself... but if it can sample I suppose it would have to have onboard multisample setup features...
I looked it up, and here's the most recent reply from Rolf:
yes, we have been contacted by sample tool providers and send them the info about what's needs to be done for Quantum. Hope we see something soon here.
In general, samples are stored as normal audio files like wav or aiff. You can use uncompressed 16,24,32 bit integer or 32 bit float formats and number of channels. It will always goes to stereo. Sample rate is ignored, but assumed to be 44.1 kHz. For other rates you could adapt sample pitch as needed.
Sample maps are normally stored within the patches but can be exported and imported as well. They describe all the key & velocity zones etc. what you see in the GUI. These samplemap files are text files you could edit and create by hand. Just look onto them and compare what's in the screen. Should be quite self explanatory. Otherwise ask.
So, if you have a komplex sample mapping you could do this in a text editor until the above mentioned tools are ready.
Sample transfer to the machine currently is done via SD card. We have no plans for plain old Sysex, but like to invest in a direct USB connection. No promises about when and if at all, but the idea is that you connect Quantum to your computer and Quantum's sample storage appears as an external drive on your computer.
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I'm also thinking about TWIN PEAKS at the moment. I think about connecting them to one good master keyboard like the 61SL MkIII from the same manufacturer. I could organize my splits and layers with the Master and if I need more polyphone I would transfer my patch from one PEAK to the other and look for a suitable splitpoint to distribute the voices to the two units. But the idea of building an own polychain tool sounds also nice...
I'm still hoping for a keyboard version of the PEAK at Superbooth... and to make owners of the module version buy it, I hope they integrate a polychain function by themselves.
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I'm also thinking about TWIN PEAKS at the moment. I think about connecting them to one good master keyboard like the 61SL MkIII from the same manufacturer. I could organize my splits and layers with the Master and if I need more polyphone I would transfer my patch from one PEAK to the other and look for a suitable splitpoint to distribute the voices to the two units. But the idea of building an own polychain tool sounds also nice...
I'm still hoping for a keyboard version of the PEAK at Superbooth... and to make owners of the module version buy it, I hope they integrate a polychain function by themselves.
The Peak seems successful enough to warrant a keyboard version. Novation may just think the module is good enough though.
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I have a feeling that the PEAK will see a keys version... it has been too successful enough not to, the question is if it will have extra bells and whistles, more voices or something like that, or if it's just a PEAK with a keyboard... still, I will not get a keys version for that simple fact that I will only have space for a single keyboard as a controller, and that will be the Quantum... and I simply do not believe that Quantum will ever emerge in a module format, so I have no choices in this matter.
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I've done a complete 180 on my initial impressions of the Quantum and PX. The Quantum sounded brilliant on paper, yet everything I've heard thus far is clinical. Although it has analog filters, I would have never guessed if not told. To be fair, it's only in its infancy and needs time before any proper assessment can be made. The PX on the other hand had me scratching my head when announced, yet since then I've heard plenty of beautiful/dark & intriguing new sounds. Since a module version sounds like it's off the table, I'm hoping for a Tempest X in its place.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvpuJlpaV6Y
This youtube video is enough to convince me it will serve me well... i know it sounds terrible in the beginning, but as you enter further into this video you will hear all sorts of weird ambient noises...
Besides, I know the Waldorf "sound"... I've had many of their digital machines, and they do have a certain sterile ring to them... except for when they have analog filters in the signal chain... so I'm pretty confident I'll like the Quantum...
The point is, that I WILL NOT pay extra for 150GB of sounds on the PX that I'm not going to use at all, and where the fate of the sample import is in 8DIO's hands... I cannot even erase the darn 150GB samples if i wanted to, I'm just told to "imagine they are not there" ... such a comment simply irritates me... so no thanks... no PX for me.
Quantum it is... and I'll get one as soon as i can by selling Tempest and REV2 and saving up...
...if the 3rd and last synth will be a Sequential one... only time will tell...
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https://youtu.be/xcvyBclAu3o
this too... just excellent... I'm not saying you cannot do the same with a PX, or at least something that sound similar... it's just a choice... PX or Quantum...
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I've done a complete 180 on my initial impressions of the Quantum and PX. The Quantum sounded brilliant on paper, yet everything I've heard thus far is clinical. Although it has analog filters, I would have never guessed if not told. To be fair, it's only in its infancy and needs time before any proper assessment can be made. The PX on the other hand had me scratching my head when announced, yet since then I've heard plenty of beautiful/dark & intriguing new sounds. Since a module version sounds like it's off the table, I'm hoping for a Tempest X in its place.
When you compare them to the digital former's filter emulations, you can tell. However, the next update is slated to give a "dirty" mode which should show their character a little more.
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But now that I'm actually thinking about a 3 synth hardwired setup, I'll need to be VERY VERY CERTAIN that the three synths will cover as much synthesis ground as possible... The Quantum and PEAK will cover almost all possible ground just the two alone (in a general broad way that is, every synth has something unique to them they will not cover... I know).
So the 3rd synth will have to be something special... most likely a hybrid more because an analog will be limited in the oscillator section no matter what it is I'd say... It will also need to satisfy a few more requirements:
1. It must have a very user friendly UI. I intend on dropping the use of SoundDiver, simply because the program is unreliable and very old, so the synth MUST have an interface that allow me to edit it easily... I do not want too much double-function knobby interface action, and any menu diving should be easy... i do not want the UI to delay my editing abilities.
2. Quality of the digital oscillator section should be mostly aliasing free... I'd prefer high rate FPGA synths in this matter to be honest (like PEAK), but standard 48KHz may also work if done right (like Quantum).
3. It must be a module desktop synth... I only want ONE keyboard in my setup, and that one will be QUANTUM.
4. Build quality should be acceptable... so probably no Behringer devices.
5. Built in FX, with high quality... especially the Reverbs must be good, as i intend on stopping the use of FX plugins in my DAW, relying 100% on the synths built in FX... DAW will only be used for recording tracks, and Mixing, EQ and mastering.
With all that said... there really is nothing out there that meet my requirements yet... Quantum and PEAK will cover most as said earlier; Subtractive synthesis, FM synthesis, Resonator synthesis, Granular synthesis, Classic sampler synthesis, Wavetable synthesis... with this I'm talking about the oscillator section... in the filter section I'll be covered in both 12 and 24 dB with LP, HP and BP... so the essential has also been covered there, unless I'd want other filter flavors, but then I could go on and on forever.
So the right synth might not be available for a long time I guess... i have too high requirements probably, but I'll simply wait until it's there, and if it never comes, I'll just get another PEAK. With Peak and Quantum I'll be so well covered in all aspects that I could do with just those two really... but I have three stereo inputs on my soundcard, so I chose three as the "magical number"... and who knows... maybe someone will surprise me... FPGA seems to be trending now, so I think we might see more synths coming out with FPGA synthesis... I'm not sure... but depending on demos and specs, I COULD end up with a KYRA as the third synth, even if it's 100% digital... it depend on the sound and the features. What attracts me to it is that it's FPGA and because of it's 128 voices...
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The point is, that I WILL NOT pay extra for 150GB of sounds on the PX that I'm not going to use at all, and where the fate of the sample import is in 8DIO's hands... I cannot even erase the darn 150GB samples if i wanted to, I'm just told to "imagine they are not there" ... such a comment simply irritates me... so no thanks... no PX for me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Quantum have 4GB of internal flash memory minus 1GB of preloaded samples vs the PX's 150GB of 8Dio samples on an SSD with an additional 50GB internal? For around the same price you can also get those TP/8 keys, except with additional octave ranges.
Edit: Just sayin.
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The point is, that I WILL NOT pay extra for 150GB of sounds on the PX that I'm not going to use at all, and where the fate of the sample import is in 8DIO's hands... I cannot even erase the darn 150GB samples if i wanted to, I'm just told to "imagine they are not there" ... such a comment simply irritates me... so no thanks... no PX for me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Quantum have 4GB of internal flash memory minus 1GB of preloaded samples vs the PX's 150GB of 8Dio samples on an SSD with an additional 50GB internal? For around the same price you can also get those TP/8 keys, except with additional octave ranges.
Edit: Just sayin.
I believe the samples in QUANTUM are erasable... and I do not need more than 4GB for samples for what I'll use it for... and I do not have to be in doubt of being able to use all of the sample functionality... so all that really do not bother me at all... regarding the keys, there are no controller keyboards that has the TP/8S... and the PX do not have it either... and still... the PX do not have those synthesis types that the Quantum has... when I only want three synths, then Quantum is the better choise for me.
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and the PX do not have it either...
PXL does have TP/8 though.
Not trying to talk you into which to buy, btw. I just fail to see the specific issue you have when there's 12.5 times the amount of user storage... I take it your main gripe in that regard is more having to do with paying extra for 8Dio content. Not sure about the presets, but from what I've heard, their samples are quite nice. Personally I don't want to have to be bothered with user samples at all. I would rather have 200GB of their stuff if it included a comprehensive scope of instruments. There are some pretty major omissions as is from what I've been told.
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But now that I'm actually thinking about a 3 synth hardwired setup, I'll need to be VERY VERY CERTAIN that the three synths will cover as much synthesis ground as possible... The Quantum and PEAK will cover almost all possible ground just the two alone (in a general broad way that is, every synth has something unique to them they will not cover... I know).
So the 3rd synth will have to be something special... most likely a hybrid more because an analog will be limited in the oscillator section no matter what it is I'd say... It will also need to satisfy a few more requirements:
1. It must have a very user friendly UI. I intend on dropping the use of SoundDiver, simply because the program is unreliable and very old, so the synth MUST have an interface that allow me to edit it easily... I do not want too much double-function knobby interface action, and any menu diving should be easy... i do not want the UI to delay my editing abilities.
2. Quality of the digital oscillator section should be mostly aliasing free... I'd prefer high rate FPGA synths in this matter to be honest (like PEAK), but standard 48KHz may also work if done right (like Quantum).
3. It must be a module desktop synth... I only want ONE keyboard in my setup, and that one will be QUANTUM.
4. Build quality should be acceptable... so probably no Behringer devices.
5. Built in FX, with high quality... especially the Reverbs must be good, as i intend on stopping the use of FX plugins in my DAW, relying 100% on the synths built in FX... DAW will only be used for recording tracks, and Mixing, EQ and mastering.
With all that said... there really is nothing out there that meet my requirements yet... Quantum and PEAK will cover most as said earlier; Subtractive synthesis, FM synthesis, Resonator synthesis, Granular synthesis, Classic sampler synthesis, Wavetable synthesis... with this I'm talking about the oscillator section... in the filter section I'll be covered in both 12 and 24 dB with LP, HP and BP... so the essential has also been covered there, unless I'd want other filter flavors, but then I could go on and on forever.
So the right synth might not be available for a long time I guess... i have too high requirements probably, but I'll simply wait until it's there, and if it never comes, I'll just get another PEAK. With Peak and Quantum I'll be so well covered in all aspects that I could do with just those two really... but I have three stereo inputs on my soundcard, so I chose three as the "magical number"... and who knows... maybe someone will surprise me... FPGA seems to be trending now, so I think we might see more synths coming out with FPGA synthesis... I'm not sure... but depending on demos and specs, I COULD end up with a KYRA as the third synth, even if it's 100% digital... it depend on the sound and the features. What attracts me to it is that it's FPGA and because of it's 128 voices...
Well that didn’t take long. ;)
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Well that didn’t take long. ;)
Glad you said it first! ;D
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and the PX do not have it either...
PXL does have TP/8 though.
Not trying to talk you into which to buy, btw. I just fail to see the specific issue you have when there's 12.5 times the amount of user storage... I take it your main gripe in that regard is more having to do with paying extra for 8Dio content. Not sure about the presets, but from what I've heard, their samples are quite nice. Personally I don't want to have to be bothered with user samples at all. I would rather have 200GB of their stuff if it included a comprehensive scope of instruments. There are some pretty major omissions as is from what I've been told.
The PXL is hammer action, which i do not like, and I have no space for 76keys :)
I think what you just wrote explains exactly why our opinions differ... I want to use my own samples, and GBs of data storage is not needed, as I will want to manipulate sample textures... For this task, Quantum simply gives more options...many of its oscillator types relies on the samples...PX seems more geared toward users that do not want to mess much around with creative sample synthesis... More like a ROMpler, with the added ability for users to load custom banks in from third party sound developers... And that is fine for those who like this, but this is not what I want to do... I want as many sample sculpting synthesis options as possible, and turn samples into totalt different sonic landscapes... Yes... PX allow for this too, but it is just not as flexible as the Quantum in my opinion...
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The PXL is hammer action
Nope, sure ain't. "Full-sized, semi-weighted, 76-key, Fatar TP/8 keyboard." (https://www.sequential.com/product/prophet-xl/)
PX seems more geared toward users that do not want to mess much around with creative sample synthesis... More like a ROMpler
Nope, I just don't want to have to waste my time with importing user samples and such.
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The PXL is hammer action
Nope, sure ain't. "Full-sized, semi-weighted, 76-key, Fatar TP/8 keyboard." (https://www.sequential.com/product/prophet-xl/)
PX seems more geared toward users that do not want to mess much around with creative sample synthesis... More like a ROMpler
Nope, I just don't want to have to waste my time with importing user samples and such.
The keybed I want is TP/8S... not TP/8 because it's the one with synth action, it is not the same as in the Quantum... it's also easy to see, at the PX keys have flat fronts... and as I said.. I have no space for 76 keys :)
On the second topic... well... as I said, we have different views on how to use samples... honestly, I sometimes would wish I did not have to find samples myself... that the ones already there was a wisely chosen selection, but it is never the case for me... so I always sit and get irritated if I cannot use my own samples... the same is true for the TEMPEST to be honest... a lousy choice of samples for a drummachine that should inspire you to tweak the samples into something new... the selection is not at all broad in any way... and when the engine allow for so little modificataion of the samples as in TEMPEST it makes things even worse... Now I know that 8DIO provide a vastly larger selection, but they seem too "cinematic and effected" for my liking... FX are something I as a sound designer want to put in... should not be prsent in the samples themselves... another reason to want to use my own samples btw.
But I do get the idea of being able to not care about sample gathering and editing... it's tedious, but when no manufacturers can figure out how to implement samples that function as textural building blocks, and always have to include a bunch of multi sampled instruments and overly processed samples to "sound cool", then it's just not for me... I seriously want to use samples, but i just have to accept that i have to make my own to get what i want to work with :)
Besides... even if factory samples WAS wisely chosen, they would never be able to cover all the ground I'd want... also I enjoy taking a microphone out and record stuff... find obscure items on flee markets that make sounds to sample, and then use these... and another thing is copyright... if I want to sell a sound package that include samples, I would want the samples to be my own, as i set pride in making my sounds myself... including the samples.
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I'm done with the PEAK patch editor for SoundDiver now... a lot of parameters to set up, but in the end it will make me design sounds a lot faster because of the added overview... all parameters on the same screen which is what I prefer. SoundDiver is old, and it looks pretty boring, but it's functional value makes it worth it for me in the end.
It took some time to reverse engineer the SysEx specs (because Novation will not part with it for some stupid reason), but it was quite easy really, so if anyone want the specs, you can just write me a PM.
Actually SoundDiver supported all of the data except for the parameters that was 2bytes wide... the format they work in was not supported by SoundDiver, so when those are changed it sends the whole patch instead which makes those parameters less realtime tweakable (SoundDiver waits with the sending until you release the knob)... but it's acceptable...
The picture below should give you a clear estimation of how many prameters the PEAK actually has.
I should now be able to start work on a soundbank for the PEAK.
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I've begun my next soundbank, but this time for the PEAK.... another experimental soundbank for Ambient and Fantasy music in general.
First patch had an "X-Files" character, so I named it Z-Files: http://razmo.ziphoid.com/Z-Files.mp3
Having my editor makes things a lot easier... I'm simply too used to that program to let it go I guess :)
But boy would i wish that Sequential synths had a reverb like the PEAK in quality... that reverb is simply gorgeous to work with... With PEAK I would not be in need of any external FX processor at all, except maybe if I needed a Phaser which it for some reason do not have.
The delay is also really neat, especially the ability to dial in ratios between left and right side, giving you all strange kinds of panning delays... the chorus is also neat, and that these three can be routed in parallel or any other type of serial configuration makes the FX section really useful... I think that the FX section is an area where Sequential really could up their game a bit, especially regarding simultaneous use and routings, but also the quality of the FX. This is just the future of hardware synths; built in FX... and manipulation thru mod matrix... the later being why it is so important because you cannot control an external FX engine from a synths modulation matrix, and that is key to making expressive use of an FX engine.
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As a matter of interest, where did you buy your peak from? I've been looking around on the internet and the cheapest place at the moment in the UK seems to be Amazon at Ł999.
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As a matter of interest, where did you buy your peak from? I've been looking around on the internet and the cheapest place at the moment in the UK seems to be Amazon at Ł999.
Actually Amazon was even cheaper than that yesterday when I looked. I think it was Ł920. Seems to have gone back up today.
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As a matter of interest, where did you buy your peak from? I've been looking around on the internet and the cheapest place at the moment in the UK seems to be Amazon at Ł999.
Actually Amazon was even cheaper than that yesterday when I looked. I think it was Ł920. Seems to have gone back up today.
Cheers for the info, I’ll keep an eye on it :)
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As a matter of interest, where did you buy your peak from? I've been looking around on the internet and the cheapest place at the moment in the UK seems to be Amazon at Ł999.
A french store I found on EBAY called something like "global music store" ... Was the cheapest option for me... I asked Thomann, but they said they will not have the PEAK on their product list again... So had no other option
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It's simply too cheap and too advanced to not try this out... call me traitor or whatever you want, i really do not care... i want this for it's very flexible FX enigine and deep synthesis, and the fact that it's simply a different filter than the Curtis filter which I know to death from having had both Evolvers, Prophets and Tempest... I need some other flavors of filters... and it's SysEx specs is SoundDiver friendly...even the FX section... the manual even has the structure of the dump in it (thanks Behringer! some CAN where other's obviously CAN NOT!) ...
Should be here early next week, and then I'll begin work on the editor for this.
I really look forward to the only synth i know off that has the inbuilt ability to create a shimmer reverb...
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After going through multiple drum machines and samplers, I've settled on the Octatrack to fit my needs as I get up to 24 LFOs for external gear. The LFOs are fully customizable and can be sent up to 80 different CC destinations. Considering there's also parameter locks for sequenced external gear as well, I can get the craziest evolving tracks with to my ears the best sounding analog synths (along with the P6) on the market. That way I don't have to sacrifice quality for functionality. I've also been using Massive and Alchemy recently and I'm stunned at how good they sound, so I'm well covered for cold digital sounds as well. At three hardware pieces (OB-6, AS-1, and the Octatrack), I'm already overwhelmed with the possibilities. The only way I could see myself possibly getting another piece of gear anytime soon would be if Sequential releases something on par with the digital possibilities of a synth VST, except with a knobby interface. As Sequential doesn't seemed staffed for something that would require a heavily programmed UI, I don't see that happening in the near future, if ever.
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It's simply too cheap and too advanced to not try this out... call me traitor or whatever you want, i really do not care...
TRAITOR!!!! :)
I’m joking. No one really cares. Make music and have fun. Whether your using Sequential, Moog, Behringer, or a kazoo... If you’re happy, who are we too complain.
That being said... Behringer? Really? ;)
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I care!
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Actually I just decided to send the DeepMind12 back and get my money back... after having created almost the whole editor for it, i realize that it's not really capable of doing anything i cannot do with my REV2 ... in fact I've had an MKS-50 once, and i can tell that it sounds more thin than the actual Juno it tried to emulate... probably because it does not have the same cool analog chorus as the MKS-50.... DP12 still sounds fine with the analog part, the problem for me arised when I found out that the FX engine simply is so weirdly implemented in the Mod Matrix (regarding SysEx dumps) that it's impossible for me to finish the editor... that means I'd have to either accept the official editor (which I will not), or edit sounds on two editors (editing the FX on the official one)... that is simply too circumstancial for me... also, even if the FX engine is good, it's not THAT good that I'd want to keep it just for that... many of these FX are added post analog signal chain, so I could as well have added the FX with a plugin anyway.... yes, I know that you can ude the matrix to create weird control of FX parameters, but it's just not really me... I feel like I bought a mediocre analog synth, with an added multi FX engine taking up half the fame.
So it's going back... and I'll save the money for a while and see what else I'd want... there is really not much at the moment save a Prophet 12, but I really think I'll wait until I see what the next will be from Sequential, and just stick with my three keepers: Tempest, REV2 and PEAK...
I also had problems with voices suddenly not sounding, having to have to re calibrate the DM12... i cannot say what it is, but something just feels... "mediocre" about it... can't explain it really... it's certainly a bang for the buck, no doubt, but I just have this fealing that it does not bring anything exceptional to my table when i already have the REV2 which I like better.
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I also had problems with voices suddenly not sounding, having to have to re calibrate the DM12... i cannot say what it is, but something just feels...
I know what it is... it's that exceptional quality Chinese manufacturing process....
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I also had problems with voices suddenly not sounding, having to have to re calibrate the DM12... i cannot say what it is, but something just feels...
I know what it is... it's that exceptional quality Chinese manufacturing process....
Maybe... i do not know... actually it sounded acceptable, it just did not present me with anything that made me go "I cannot live without this!" ... Does not matter anyway, I get my money back, and wait to see what's coming up next... I have a very strict requirement that I can make editors in SoundDiver for my synths... which also makes me hessitate getting a Quantum... i simply think that synth is too complex to have a SoundDiver friendly SysEx dump... if any at all... so that leaves me with the Prophet X as the only option if I ever want samples... but I'm going to ask for the SysEx specs from Sequential before ever making such a decision... also, the full sample-import utility will have to see the light of day before I ever get one... so I've simply shelved any ideas about Quantum and Prophet X for the time being... I'll probably get myself a Prophet 12 again when I've got the money, and while they can still be had... at least I know that one will work like i want it to as i already have the editor for it from when i had it in the past... I'm certain that even if Dave makes it's successor (or rather it's takeover synth), that the Prophet 12 will always have something unique anyway... just like the Evolver does... so no harm in getting one anyway I think.
It's the only interesting synth in the horizon at the moment... I still have a keen eye for an OB-6 to be honest... may get one of those also at some point... would like to have a Sequential synth with a multi mode filter.
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Just wait to see what Sequential has up their sleeve next. You have a REV2, but bought a DM12 for some reason. You have a peak, but you're thinking about the P12 for some reason. If what Sequential does next blows the Peak out of the water (which I assume it will if it goes in that direction), then your purchase will be warranted. Buying a VCO or hardware sampler next if you have an itchy trigger finger sounds like a more practical option considering your setup.
Ofc this is simply my recommendation ... No one ever listens to me. :P
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Just wait to see what Sequential has up their sleeve next. You have a REV2, but bought a DM12 for some reason. You have a peak, but you're thinking about the P12 for some reason. If what Sequential does next blows the Peak out of the water (which I assume it will if it goes in that direction), then your purchase will be warranted. Buying a VCO or hardware sampler next if you have an itchy trigger finger sounds like a more practical option considering your setup.
Ofc this is simply my recommendation ... No one ever listens to me. :P
Ohh, but I listen! ... it's just not always that i act on it ;D
But I actually am thinking in the direction of a Prophet X anyway... i did say earlier that i would not get one, but I'm beginning to see the writing on the wall in that regard because, if I'm ever going to find a sampler synth that also have the SysEx specs I want, then that will probably be the only real bet... there are very few synths of today that make the specs right, and Sequential is one of them... i was lucky that Novation PEAK did too... and normally MOOG and Waldorf does too, but with the complexity of Quantum, I simply do not believe the SysEx will be the way I want it to be... at least not for the Quantum.
An area that usually makes SoundDiver lack the features to create an editor is in either checksums (if the type is not supported), or if bytes in the dump is used for more than one parameter... in the later case you would want to switch between different views of parameters, depending on a single parameters value... an example is almost always FX sections... one byte designates what type of FX you want to use, and a group of bytes hold the parameter values... but the same parameter value bytes are used for any FX you choose, and as such the values in them differ from FX to FX... SoundDiver cannot handle this, and that was also how the FX in DeepMind12 was handled... PEAK have all FX available at the same time, so all FX has their own parameter byte in the dump... with Sequential, there are so few parameters, even though the same bytes are used for all FX, but the range of these parameters are always the same, so it does not matter.
Thus, the days where synths that fit my SysEx needs are being produced is probably nearing it's end because most newer synths with analog components have built in FX engines, and they will probably just get more and more advanced...
Besides... after a hard thought, I really do not want to deal with exchanging samples in a sampler synth, as I have been saying before, I'd rather like a ROMpler, but with my own set of samples so that I can create what I need, and then simply forget about sample loading forever more... That is how I would be dealing with a Prophet X... creating a sample set that match my needs carefully, and then treat it like a ROMpler with analog filters...
Regarding Sequentials next synth... I'm not sure it will take PEAK of it's piedestal... the way Sequential makes their synths are different, so I do not believe it will be able to do all it does, and IF it will compete with it, it would have to use FPGA synthesis... and I'd welcome that from Sequential actually, so by all means; i hope they will try to compete with it :)
Still... I'll probably get a Prophet 12 anyway... i simply know that it will still hold it's space in the Sequential repertoire... Prophet 12 never fully took over for the Evolvers... and anything new will not take over for the Prophet 12 either, I'm firmly convinced in that.
But I think that what I'll be doing is save up for a Prophet X... that will take some time... and until I've got that kind of money, Sequential will probably release some specs on their new thing, and thus the focus may switch from the X to whatever that is... that seems like the best option at the moment... and then get some sounds done in the meantime for the TEMPEST and PEAK. :)
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And about the DM12... I realized that the raw oscillator section is not at all that very flexible... the tonal variation did not give out many options... it sounded good, but the features of the oscillators is even below standard... even the REV2 give you much more variety... and as such, the DM12 is HEAVILLY dependent on it's FX section... which IS quite good... but when it leans up gainst it's FX that much, and I cannot create an editor for that part of it in SoundDiver, it just feels stupid to keep it... you can easilly find better FX in plugins to do the same and with the same routing options... the only thing that would be missing is the ability to control FX from the matrix... but if you look at that FX section in detail (all 33 of them), you'll quickly notice that many of them are different reverbs and delays... it does not give anything particular unique... just the usual reverbs, delays, choruses, flangers and phasers... there are no decimators, no ringmodulators... I mean... it IS limited on how many reverbs and delays you would want to control from a matrix... besides, FX are global, and not on a per voice basis which limits their use in a matrix really... most FX would only work with global modulation, not per voice modulation... Novation was smart when they made the FX controllable from a matrix in their latest OS update... they made a matrix specifically for the FX, and made sure that the only modulation sources available was of those that had global control...
So no... DM12 is a fine synth, it just do not offer me anything I do not allready have except for the characteristic Juno filter really... and that is not enough to warrant a space in my setup.
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Cheers Razmo, you've given the most objective review of the synth in your reasoning for returning it that I've read anywhere.
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I accidentally stumbled upon this little sample player today: http://www.hypnotriod.org/beatsqueezer/#/
And I've decided to give this a go as for a sample player instead of the expensive options like Prophet X and Quantum... it seems to be limited to exactly what I think I'll need... adequate polyphony, stereo samples, .wav file import with loop support, one sample per key and an amplifier and filter (digital though) envelope plus a few FX.
This should suffice to create the things I've been thinking about doing, but at a much much lower price... with it's 1GB of flash memory I can also turn this into a simple ROMpler which was what I was after.
I'm surprised I've never heard of this device... I accidentally found it on a local used items sales site, and decided to buy it... it will be used mainly for creating textures that are designed for each key, playing stuff like atmospheric ambient pads and drones along with some sound FX and recordings of acoustic stuff that I have.
I hope it will suffice... it seems to... and it would be nice to have my sample needs fulfilled with this very small device.
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Looks like a good sample player, nice and utilitarian with a good selection of effects. You are lucky to find one for sale as I can't seem to locate where the maker is selling them, if he is at all.
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Looks like a good sample player, nice and utilitarian with a good selection of effects. You are lucky to find one for sale as I can't seem to locate where the maker is selling them, if he is at all.
Actually i decided to cancel the buy anyway... there are a few things it cannot do that I'd like... if you want to get one, then enter the creators Facebook page for the device... I know that you have to wait quite some time if you want one pre build, so expect some waiting time ... but yes... it is a cool sample player, it just has no way of using a round-robin triggering, or the ability to start a sample at a random place in the sample which is something I'd need for what I want to do with samples... but as a sample player it's quite good... instant access to 128*128 samples in 1GB of flash is quite good.
I've decided to drop samples for the time being, and simply get a Prophet 12 desktop next month instead... I want one while they are still around... samples will have to wait until something with my requirements pop up on the market, or the secrecy about the Prophet X sample import tool is revealed.
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Hmm, round-robin sample playback is a nice idea. I purchased a triggered channel switcher end of last year to achieve a similar effect.
As to actually acquiring a unit myself, I'm rather skint right now, I was more looking to find a price out of curiosity than in a bid to buy.
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Hmm, round-robin sample playback is a nice idea. I purchased a triggered channel switcher end of last year to achieve a similar effect.
As to actually acquiring a unit myself, I'm rather skint right now, I was more looking to find a price out of curiosity than in a bid to buy.
I saw it somewhere on the net selling for about 280 EUROs I think it was... it's not a cheap unit, but small-bussiness devices rarely are... but it is also a reason as to why I hesitated... I really would have liked either a PX or Quantum, but there are issues with both that keep me from getting one... with Quantum it's the SysEx specs, with PX it's the unknown about the sample import utility... so as I wrote earlier; I'll just forget about sample synths for now and move on with other synthesis types instead :)
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Hmm, round-robin sample playback is a nice idea. I purchased a triggered channel switcher end of last year to achieve a similar effect.
As to actually acquiring a unit myself, I'm rather skint right now, I was more looking to find a price out of curiosity than in a bid to buy.
I saw it somewhere on the net selling for about 280 EUROs I think it was... it's not a cheap unit, but small-bussiness devices rarely are... but it is also a reason as to why I hesitated... I really would have liked either a PX or Quantum, but there are issues with both that keep me from getting one... with Quantum it's the SysEx specs, with PX it's the unknown about the sample import utility... so as I wrote earlier; I'll just forget about sample synths for now and move on with other synthesis types instead :)
Although it is monophonic, I've gained a lot of joy out of my Bastl Microgranny 2.0. Simple sample playback as well as granular sample playback. Runs samples from an microSD card and the load very quickly which makes changing banks very usable while performing. Six samples per bank but again due to quick loading of samples, I can change the samples assigned while playing fairly seemlessly. It has simple CC control for it's eight parameters. Responds to progchange and RTM's. No pitchbend but there is a sample frequency parameter for the good old pitchbending via sample speed, so pitchbend can be done using that parameter. Not too sure about the sysex specs though.
They go for around the $250aud so are rather cheap.
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There are many cool sample players out there these days in many different price ranges... I've looked at the Granny as well at some point.
But I have to realize that it's sample synthesis i want to play around with, not just sample playback, and I'd really like a very deep engine along with analog filters for this... There really is nothing on the market like that, other than Prophet X and Quantum... but the Sample Import utility is crippled, and nobody want to talk about it's state or if we'll ever see a full featured version... this prevents me from getting one at the moment.
Quantum is a better bet as things are right now, but I'd have to make sure that the onscreen editing on this is user friendly to work with because I'll never be able to create a SysEx editor for it I think.
So I guess I'll have to wait a bit with all this sample-stuff, and see what happens... I also have a feeling that samples + analog filters will have a comeback in the coming years... many small projects in this field is beginning to pop up... replicas of the SP1200 sampler and Behringer that now has "samplers" written into their menusystem points in that direction.
I'm sort of hoping for a polyphonic sample-synth in a pricerange about half of that of the PX or Quantum... these two are priced too high in my opinion... maybe not Quantum as it's very very deep and complex, but the PX is simply priced way higher than what it (in my opinion) is worth... they made a REV2 even below half the price, with 16 filters... i cannot see why it should be that much more expensive to throw in two digital and two sample oscillators... the P12 desktop is much much cheaper, has four digital oscillators and 12 filters... for about a third of the price of a PX... I'm still convinced that a great part of it's price is due to those darn 8DIO samples nobody will use in 5 years anyway...
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I changed the looks of my SoundDiver editor for the REV2 lately... it's been set up a bit more streamlined, but still with all on one screen, including BOTH layers... I cannot state enough how much this speed up programming programs that use both layers compared to the REV2's user interface... huge difference for me.
I'm aware that the poly sequencer is not shown... this has to do with the fact that it is a feature i use separately from designing sounds... i use the poly sequencer as a scratch-pad sequencer for tracks i want to be tight, and i record them depending on what score I'm working on, so there really is no need to store a sequence with a preset in my case, and thus no need for it in my editor... that saves some valuable screen space... also, the sequencer on REV2 is broken... last four bytes of the 6th layers velocity is never included in the SysEx dump, which further makes it not worth including really.
I'm going to revise my old editor for the Prophet 12 in the following days as well, though this will be a little harder because of all the parameters i have to squeeze in... especially with two layers.
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I made some changes to my older editor for the Prophet 12 as I'm going to buy one soon... not an easy task getting all of those parameters on to the same screen, but I succeeded... a little compact, but still effective enough for me :)
This means that all my editors are now ready... REv2, P12 and PEAK.
I've decided to let the TEMPEST go... I'm not good at programming music anymore, it bores me... i like to perform instead, and TEMPEST is simply way too much sequencing for my liking... I thought long and hard about using it as a synth instead, but after having played around with it I came to the conclusion that the sample oscillators are simply too low quality... that compared to the fact that many of the most usable single cycle waveforms are screwed by artifacts I simply gave up on it... a bit of a shame really because it has that strong almost Evolver'esque sound to it... Some day when I get the chance I may get a Poly Evolver Rack again instead... but they're rare these days, so maybe it won't happen.
I'm still keeping an eye on the Prophet X of course... also the Quantum... I'm probably going to get one of them at some point, but I'm still very torn on which it should be... With other people beginning to experiment on creating sample import software for the Prophet X, things are looking a little bit brighter for the Prophet X... it may be more simple than the Quantum, but on the other hand the Quantum may also be just too much crammed into a single synth... the polyphony and tru stereo configuration plus the SysEx specs of the Prophet X is still a VERY HEAVY thing on my scale... man I wish that the PX would be made in a version without the 8DIO samples... REALLY!!! ... I'd also like to see a desktop version of it, with scaled down UI like the P12 desktop... lower pricing... but I guess I'm dreaming...
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Razmo, your editors are all "PC only", right? Meaning they couldn't be used on a Mac?
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Razmo, your editors are all "PC only", right? Meaning they couldn't be used on a Mac?
I actually do not know... I have never had a MAC, but I know that SoundDiver was also made for the MAC... if the adaptions are the same it should work I guess.
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Razmo, your editors are all "PC only", right? Meaning they couldn't be used on a Mac?
I actually do not know... I have never had a MAC, but I know that SoundDiver was also made for the MAC... if the adaptions are the same it should work I guess.
Yeah, but AFAIK SoundDiver hasn't been supported since the Emagic days... I'm surprised you still have it working!
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If anyone want to try one of my adaptions for SoundDiver on MAC, just write me... you can have them free of charge to see if they will work... and if you use SoundDiver on PC, just write me as well... I know they work on the PC since that's what I'm using.
I have editors for quite a few... mostly for desktop versions but I think it'll work for most keyboard versions too if they have the same SysEx specs.. I've got for:
Waldorf Pulse 2
DSI Tetra
Moog Slim Phatty
Waldorf Pulse
SC Prophet REV2
DSI Poly Evolver Rack
Novation PEAK
MOOG Sub37
Roland MKS-50
MOOG Minitaur
Jomox MBrane 11
Jomox MBase 11
Oberheim Matrix 1000
Vermona M.A.R.S.
KORG EX-8000
DSI Evolver Desktop
Ensoniq ESQ-1m
DSI TEMPEST (Sound edit only)
DSI Prophet 12 desktop
DSI Prophet 08 desktop
Behringer DeepMind12 (all except FX section)
Waldorf Blofeld Keyboard
I know I've made for others, but some of them got lost at some point... Mopho was one of them unfortunately.
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Razmo, your editors are all "PC only", right? Meaning they couldn't be used on a Mac?
I actually do not know... I have never had a MAC, but I know that SoundDiver was also made for the MAC... if the adaptions are the same it should work I guess.
Yeah, but AFAIK SoundDiver hasn't been supported since the Emagic days... I'm surprised you still have it working!
It works rather well actually... a few quirks, but they are mostly present when actually creating an adaption... otherwise the only thing you need to do on the PC version is set it up correctly, .. .it must be run in administrator mode, and set to compatibility mode for Windows XP ... other than that it actually works well... there may be a few of the specially coded adaptions by Emagic that don't work correctly anymore, but I create my own editors and the "New Adaption" that can be selected works fine... still a few bugs, but nothing serious I'd say... I've been using it forever really... still am, and nothing has been made that can be compared really... not anything I've found that is...
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/WhistleFlow.mp3
New sound I made recently...
Made with Roland - V-Synth GT
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Cool
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http://razmo.ziphoid.com/PEAK_BASS.mp3
A short demo of a bass patch I've been experimenting with on the Novation PEAK.
Must say that I'm rather impressed with the sound of the PEAK... this thing can sound so analog it's hard to believe it has digital oscillators... compared to the P12 it certainly kicks it's butt when it comes to bass tones... I won't even miss a MOOG when having this synth.
The ausio quality of this FPGA synthesis has to be the future of digital synths running in the megahertz range... it certainly blurrs the line between digital and analog that's for sure.
P12 certainly has a few advantages compared to the PEAK, but honestly, for me it's only the dual timbrality... if PEAK had this and added a PAN destination to it's mod matrix, I don't even think I'd feel a need to get a P12 at any point... I have the Curtis filters in my REV2, I do not need more synths with that filter really.
Besides... I've sold my REV2 keyboard... or rather, I swapped it for a Roland V-Synth GT which was a synth i really needed because of it's VariPhrase synthesis... i made a direct swap for it with the REV2 which was an ok deal... In two days I'll be buying a REV2 16-voice module though... i never decided to rid myself of the REV2, especially not now that I've spend so much time on my soundbank... I'm also still planning a second bank (with drones), so I had to get this synth again.
The stuff i feel that REV2 does better than the PEAK is actually Pads, Strings and other stuff... I've been unable to replicate some of the better pads and strings from my bank on the PEAK so far, so REV2 certainly has a place in my heart regarding these sounds it does so well.
I'm also planning on doing a new revision of my current soundbank (that will be free for all who bought it already)... there are some of the presets i do not like and feel do not really belong in the bank (basses especially, I'll save those for a dedicated bass/lead bank sometime later on, more suited towards Berlin School type sounds).
I actually do not know if I'll ever get a P12... I'm really torn on that matter... both because I want synths now that have built in FX including reverb... P12 does not have that, and there is still something about the sound quality i do not like, especially when using audio rate modulation... i don't think that Sequential will ever overcome this though, unless they make an FPGA digital front end synth... so I think I'll most likely be waiting to see what they come up with next.
My soundcard allow me to connect 9 stereo synths in total, and that is most likely what I'll end up with (modules only)... but I'll be choosing them VERY VERY carefully without hurry... currently there is nothing in the horizon except the REV2 module, but I'll be having this within next week... so only the gods know what'll be next.
I'm currently having an eye on the coming UDO synth hoping it will have both presets and SysEx for creating an editor... in that case, and if it delivers something unique, this might be on the list.
I might actually get a ONE, QUANTUM or even a PROPHET X as well at some point (now that others are creating software for the PX it has gained my attention again)... but it will probably never happen, both because I feel those are too expensive, but also because I will ONLY accept modules from now on... my V-Synth GT function as my main controller, and will be my only keyboard.
I guess that's all for this "update" of what's going on in my head at the moment.... please spare me for more comments on the subject of my always changing goals... I'm fully aware of this ;)
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REV2 came back home again... in "toothless" state 8)
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REV2 came back home again... in "toothless" state 8)
Nice and compact... I'm digging it!
And I like the compliment of synthesis engines -- new school analogue, newer school digital, and one of the most unique synths Roland ever produced!
That's a great set-up.
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REV2 came back home again... in "toothless" state 8)
Nice and compact... I'm digging it!
And I like the compliment of synthesis engines -- new school analogue, newer school digital, and one of the most unique synths Roland ever produced!
That's a great set-up.
Thanks :) ... I definitely like the combo as it stands now as it gives me a little of most synthesis types, but my setup actually allow for up to 9 synths (input limit on my soundcard) so I'll probably expand the setup in the future as interesting new stuff pops up. I intend on getting two more stands like the one I'm using with the PEAK and REV2, to be located to the right of the GT, so 4 more desktop modules will eventually find their way to my studio.
I have no other modules at the current time that I'm certain I'll be getting... I'm really split on the choice of getting a P12 module or not, but as I wrote earlier, I'll probably just wait and see what the next new thing will be...
Anyway, it's time to get back to designing sounds now... so no new gear for a while here :)
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Just wait to see what Sequential has up their sleeve next. You have a REV2, but bought a DM12 for some reason. You have a peak, but you're thinking about the P12 for some reason. If what Sequential does next blows the Peak out of the water (which I assume it will if it goes in that direction), then your purchase will be warranted. Buying a VCO or hardware sampler next if you have an itchy trigger finger sounds like a more practical option considering your setup.
Ofc this is simply my recommendation ... No one ever listens to me. :P
But I actually am thinking in the direction of a Prophet X anyway... i did say earlier that i would not get one
Which we all know means you're 100% going to get one within 8-10 months.
;D
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Just wait to see what Sequential has up their sleeve next. You have a REV2, but bought a DM12 for some reason. You have a peak, but you're thinking about the P12 for some reason. If what Sequential does next blows the Peak out of the water (which I assume it will if it goes in that direction), then your purchase will be warranted. Buying a VCO or hardware sampler next if you have an itchy trigger finger sounds like a more practical option considering your setup.
Ofc this is simply my recommendation ... No one ever listens to me. :P
But I actually am thinking in the direction of a Prophet X anyway... i did say earlier that i would not get one
Which we all know means you're 100% going to get one within 8-10 months.
;D
I can understand why some would believe this to be true ;D ... but no... too many bad experiences with samples and DSI/Sequential for that to ever happen... I'd pick the QUANTUM over the X in a heartbeat... but as things are right now, I'm fully covered with samples using my V-Synth GT... in fact, the only reason I would ever get another sampler would be because of analog filters/VCA's...
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But I actually am thinking in the direction of a Prophet X anyway... i did say earlier that i would not get one
Which we all know means you're 100% going to get one within 8-10 months.
;D
75% in 6 months or so.
Come on in Razmo, the water is warm...
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I guess this is what happens when you create too much Dark Ambient music... ???
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I guess this is what happens when you create too much Dark Ambient music... ???
;D They still look rather cheerful and sociable.
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I'm having a bit of a hard time getting used to using a mixer in a computer... I'm simply too old school... I want something that I can turn some knobs on, and also I've got these painful thoughts that I want my studio to be completely independent from a computer... well... to a degree... because i still have some things I cannot see myself doing with anything else but a computer... MIDI sequencing for example... i really do not like hardware sequencers, and I still need my editors, and some way of recording the final 2-channel mix.
So I just got this Mackie ONYX 1220i compact analog mixer... I've got a long record of using Mackie mixers, especially the ONYX ones, which I like really much... and it's a joy to once again have one in the studio.
This also means that my hectic try at doing my music using harddisk recording in layers has to be shelved... I'm going back to my oldschool way of making music by MIDI in realtime (using my trusty old SONAR DAW).
I decided that I do not want a huge setup, just a simple 9-track setup... I work best with limitations.
Other than this, there is not much changed... I'm not parting with anything, I still have a spot for my V-Synth GT as master controller and a PEAK and REV2 as additional polyphonic analog/hybrid synths.
I did decide though, that I will be getting myself four 100% analog monosynths for the mixer's 4 mono channels. My music can best be described as a mixture of Ambient and Berlin School genres, with some added occational rhythmic stuff as well, and that kind of dictated that I start using a sequencer again since Berlin School music relies heavily on sequencing... this is also where the four monosynths comes into the picture... I want the old and dusty analog tone from these to create the sequences, and they have to be able to interfere with each other in their sequences, and thus I will need semi-modular synthesizers... my idea is to let melodies played on one synth, affect parameters of another to intertwine some polyrhythmic sequences...
The four stereo channels I've reserved for the advanced and deep synths that I'll use for melodylines and ambient stuff... there is only one spot left there, as three of them is already taken by the V-Synth GT, REV2, and PEAK... still do not know what this will be... there is nothing that really drives my GAS right now...
The 9th track is coming into the mixer via a stereo return, as is meant for a completely standalone drummachine with sample capabilities, and that also has built in FX... since I cannot EQ, FX or anything on this input, the drummachine must simply be all inclusive, and the only candidate I've found thus far is the Roland TR-8S, and it'll probably be that one.
Initially I also thought about getting a VENTRIS and NEMESIS pedal for the two AUX sends, but I ran into problems with enough input channels if I wanted both a drummmachine and my DAW connected as well... so I have dumped that idea at the moment... instead I'll connect the two mono AUX sends and Alt3+4 output to my RME AIO soundcard... and then simply setup some ValhallaDSP plugins from my DAW to work as FX engines... then all FX returns, Alt3+4 returns and computers audio output can be connected to a single stereo return on the mixer, leaving the other one for the TR-8S. This setup makes the most use of everything on the mixer, and I'll probably stick with that configuration because it also saves the space and money for two effects pedals... it also allow me to chain several FX on a single AUX send if I want to.
The monosynths I've chosen to go for are currently the following:
Dreadbox - NYX V2
Dreadbox - Erebus V3
Pittsburgh Modular - Microvolt 3900
Pittsburgh Modular - SV-1
Pittsburgh Modular - Voltage Research Lab
and some others... I intend on getting more of these and simply chose which ones to utilize for a project... they are pretty easy to exchange... I'll be controlling these from an 8port MIDI interface... even if I can only hook up 4 at a time to the mixer, they can be used together because of their semi-modular nature for more advanced sounds.
There are other good monosynths that could be interresting, but the ones I listed are just those that I currently find most interesting... the first will probably be the NYX this coming friday.
well... that was a "little" update from me... I'm also still working on the revised REV2 bank... I was delayed a bit because of personal stuff, but I've just finished all the sounds... only need to create 3 completely new sounds... then it's ready for release. I'm very pleased with the expressiveness of my revised sounds... I will not go back to my previous bank to be honest... a lot of the sounds have been finetuned as well, some even changed a bit...
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Aaaahh! 8) ... I was actually hesitating to buy this, but when you've heard it upfront you do not regret a single thing!
My music is a mixture af ambient and berlin school genres (and a little something extra), and always liked when berlin school artists used those booming MOOG Modular bass sequences... I never heard that sound in the Sub37 or other MOOGs I've had, but in this one its THERE! ... probably because it IS the same curcuits of the Modular MOOG.
This thing just have a sound to it that I've wanted for a long time... even if I could hear that sound on demo's of it, it's so much more present when you sit in front of the machine.
And that build quality... just astonishing really.
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Congrats! I concur. The GM is a damn fine sounding synth.
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Congrats! I concur. The GM is a damn fine sounding synth.
I agree after I tried one in the store. Was thinking of selling my Sub 37 for some of the new Moogs.
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It is hard to describe it I feel... The sound is just so present... Even internet demos do not do it justice. I seriously would not mind a Matriarch too, if I just had the space for it.
The two and a half octave keybed on Grandmother is a bit limited though, if used as a master keyboard for other polysynths, but on the other hand it also create a useful limitation because each track you play with it is restricted to a certain range... Each instrument in a musical piece can easily be realised within two and a half octave, and that leaves more space in the mix for other tracks without them fighting for spectral space... If that makes sense.
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I played the Grandmother several times at Thomann... I would also have already pulled the trigger if there wasn‘t the Matriarch announcement.
I think the Matriarch will sound as lovely as the Grandmother... but if not, I will buy the Grandmother in a heart beat.
I was never a great Moog lover, but the sound of these two machines got me...
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I played the Grandmother several times at Thomann... I would also have already pulled the trigger if there wasn‘t the Matriarch announcement.
I think the Matriarch will sound as lovely as the Grandmother... but if not, I will buy the Grandmother in a heart beat.
I was never a great Moog lover, but the sound of these two machines got me...
Yeah... the Matriach do tend to lure you... no doubt... the prie is quite a bit more though... in fact they still both hold their own as the Matriarch has the analog delay, and Grandmother the spring reverb... I could see myself have both at some point... I especially like the fact that Matriarch is a stereo synth... there are not many semo modular synths with stereo outputs... so far I have only found the Vermona Perfourmer (which is next on my list) and the new one from Analogue Solutions (which I cannot remember the name of right now).
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Yeah... the Matriach do tend to lure you... no doubt... the prie is quite a bit more though... in fact they still both hold their own as the Matriarch has the analog delay, and Grandmother the spring reverb... I could see myself have both at some point... I especially like the fact that Matriarch is a stereo synth... there are not many semo modular synths with stereo outputs... so far I have only found the Vermona Perfourmer (which is next on my list) and the new one from Analogue Solutions (which I cannot remember the name of right now).
Well yeah, it's exactly the stereo signal path and paraphony that makes me wait. And the bigger keybed with aftertouch, which I use a lot. Having both machines is a thing I considered, too, but I will start with the matriarch first and see if I need another semimodular machine at all. Or if modular in general suits me at all, since I don't have any "long time" experience with it. At least it seems to be more interesting for me than another analogue poly synth, since my needs are covered there.
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… and the new one from Analogue Solutions (which I cannot remember the name of right now).
Impulse Command
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Btw, the Matriarch manual is online now:
https://api.moogmusic.com/sites/default/files/2019-08/Moog-Matriarch-Manual.pdf
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The keybeds in the Subsequent and Moog One are much better.
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The keybeds in the Subsequent and Moog One are much better.
I assume the ONE has TP/8S ... the GRANDMOTHER are TP9/S i think... the same as in the current Sequential line and in Blofeld etc... you're right that the TP/8S is better, but still I like the TP9 as well... it feels a tad bit too "heavy" to play because of tight springs, but I assume they will loosen a bit over time.
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For those who are deciding between the 2 Moog synths (Matriarch and Grandmother) there's a video comparison on the Loopop youtube channel. He's usually very good but I admit I've not watched this one yet :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwjAxXwGXWk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwjAxXwGXWk)
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I saw that one yesterday... Anyway, I am planning on getting the Matriarch next... If it will replace my grandmother or I will keep both I do not know yet though... The similarity in the raw sound itself is about the same, but both have something the other do not.
I actually plan on having the Matriarch as the heart of my studio, interfacing a eurorack system right behind it, containing a numer of eurorack synth voice modules for layering... This is very nice for conservibg space rather than having seperate desktop semi modular synths taking up all desktop space.
It is a bit more expensive because you will need some eurorack casing, but in the long run, I would say that it is the best way for me. I do not intend on buying separate single function modules because it will add to the comolexity, but single voice modules are nice... They give you a little of this and that, the needed variation in oscillators and filters, and can be layered in with the Matriarch for a bit more advanced sounds... And if I want to, I can interconnect between several modules. So in essence it is just like having desktop modules, they are just nicely stored vertically, and mor easily accessible for me :)
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I saw that one yesterday... Anyway, I am planning on getting the Matriarch next... If it will replace my grandmother or I will keep both I do not know yet though... The similarity in the raw sound itself is about the same, but both have something the other do not.
I actually plan on having the Matriarch as the heart of my studio, interfacing a eurorack system right behind it, containing a numer of eurorack synth voice modules for layering... This is very nice for conservibg space rather than having seperate desktop semi modular synths taking up all desktop space.
It is a bit more expensive because you will need some eurorack casing, but in the long run, I would say that it is the best way for me. I do not intend on buying separate single function modules because it will add to the comolexity, but single voice modules are nice... They give you a little of this and that, the needed variation in oscillators and filters, and can be layered in with the Matriarch for a bit more advanced sounds... And if I want to, I can interconnect between several modules. So in essence it is just like having desktop modules, they are just nicely stored vertically, and mor easily accessible for me :)
Excellent, I think you'll have many hours of fun with that lot :) Is there a 'green with envy' emoticon? ;D
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One thing that I would have liked on the Matriarch was that there had been a separate Pitch CV output for each of the oscillators, and not just one as is the case... the reason is, that if it had four CV outs for the four notes played in paraphonic modes, then I could have connected other oscillators in from a modular system, to simply replace the Matriarch's oscillators, and then play these paraphonically... of course that would require four of the same oscillator modules, but it would have been cool to replace them with stuff like wavetable oscillators, or even sample player oscillators :)
I can do this with monophonic stuff though, but it would have been cool to do this paraphonically as well.
The reason I find the Matriarch very suitable for being the "brain" in this setup is that everything past the Mixer is stereo... this means, that if I patch another mono semi modular into one of the mixer inputs (like say, a Behringer Neutron), then that synth's output would benefit from being given a stereo perspective by the Matriarch's stereo signal chain after the mixer... any synth plugged in would essentially be enhanced by a stereo MOOG ladder filter and a stereo MOOG BBD delay, and finally a stereo MOOG VCA for stereo panning.
Also, with four inputs in the mixer section, I can actually plug in up to four eurorack synth voices, and create monophonic synth sounds combined from four layers... use one synth to create the transient, and another for the decay etc... lots of neat sound design possibilities this way.
It's a powerful but yet simple eurorack setup... just how I want it to be... But I have to sell both my V-Synth GT and REV2 before I can afford the Matriarch... it's not exactly the cheapest of synths out there. But it WILL happen at some point, because I really like this idea for a setup.
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Time for a little update, now that I've gone on the road to GAS defixation.
For some reason, I will not be able to get my hands on a Matriarch right now... Thomann will not have one in store for at least 7 weeks still, so I decided to put that one on hold for a little while... I WILL most definitely get one, most likely i January, until then, the GRANDMOTHER will suffice... anyway, I'm going to put all my focus on just the V-Synth GT for some time, to get to know it fully to the bottom and become a "V-Synth GT Wizard".
I still do not see what else I'll need but the V-Synth and the Matriarch/Grandmother combo... these two will give me the best of the digital and analog world that I will need to make the music I want to be making... Everytime I think about getting a third synth, I seem to end up with a "you do not need this!" realization... so I have decided, that I will not buy a third synth until I've made sounds and music with the other instruments for some time, and then time may tell me, if I really need omething else as a third option... buying a third just for the sake of it, is just giving in to GAS, and add to the complexity of my setup, having to spread my love on three instruments rather than two.
Thus I decided to buy a few things that I need for my V-Synth GT for the money I got back from the Microvolt 3900 and Neutron... First off I need a portable recorder for recording the samples I want to make sounds with... so I bought a SONY PCM-D100 for just this task which will allow me to create stereo samples if I want to.
But I'm also going to be messing with the V-Synth GT's Vocal Designer, and to have a good position for both playing and talking into a microphone I decided to get a gooseneck Microphone as well. I decided not to go cheap, and got myself a condenser gooseneck mic (EV PolarChoice 18 XLR) that have built in pattern selection and lowfreq rolloff. I may use this for other stuff than the typical vocoder sound, so quality is important.
I'll simply connect the V-Synth GT to my AIO soundcard via S/PDIF, as to obtain the cleanest signal possible when recording, and then use the analog inputs for the Matriarch/Grandmother... this means I actually still have two stereo inputs, but if I find out I won't need another synth, then i can take out the 4input option for the AIO card as well, as it will not be needed.
As a little extra to max out the GT, I decided to get another MOOG foot pedal as the GT has two pedal inputs and a hold input... this makes all controllers available to me when starting my sound design.
That' about it for now... I feel I'm doing the right thing now :)
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Time for a little update...
A lot has hapened latelely... first off I've had to send my father off to the other side, which made me think a lot about my life when it comes to one day having to look back and judge your life... and that has made me think a lot about GAS to be honest... I already did start a movement towards stopping it, but thinking about my father who really did not do much with his life, I started thinking hard about if I wanted to sit in 25 years, looking back and the only legacy I've made for myself, is a hell of a lot of knowledge about synthesizers... that's just knowledge... I'll take that with me to my grave, and I can feel that this is not what I want... I want to have something that will outlast me... some serious music... something that I can look back on and be satisfied with... not that others need to like it, I just have to be happy about it myself.
So my path for a three synthesizer setup and a DAW is still very much the path I'm on... I will choose these three very wisely because when they have been bought, I WILL NOT buy another synth again... these three I want to dive into, 100% becoming an absolute poweruser in them... I want to build a huge library of sounds for them, so therefore they cannot be replaced by anything newer, because then I'll loose all the sounds I've made for them... I already tried this with the REV2... will not happen again.
These three must have presets... I just have to accept, that I cannot live without the ability to browse presets fast when I compose... sound design and composing are two different stages.
The synths must complement each other and cover a broad selection of synthesis methods, but most importantly, they must be completely selfcontained, have a storage medium and have a relatively large touch display... I want to edit sounds and do sound design directly on the synth, thus all three must have keys as well... I also prefer to have effects be part of the sound design process, so all should have built in quality FX.
Two of the synths have been found... the first is the Roland - V-Synth GT... I simply cannot find anything else like it out there, and even if it's 100% digital, it sounds really good. One of it's main advantages for me is the VariPhrase synthesis that allow me to manipulate formants... I simpy cannot find any other synth that will give me that kind of natural sounding vocal phrases that can be manipulated in both pitch, time and formant individually, and choral sounds is very important for the type of music I want to make... if the V-Synth GT did not have this feature, I'd probably not choose it as one of the synths because it lacks on another very important thing; modulation and engine depth... even if the V-Synths seem deep at a glance, and do have a lot going on, each section in the audio path only have 1 LFO and 1 Envelope... there is no modulation matrix, and that quickly can be limiting... an example is the "OSC" section... here you can change both formants, time and pitch... but all three share the same LFO end Envelope whcih is really crippling if you want to mosulate all three parameters... this means that the samples must be very carefully chosen to include a lot of the modulation you want... so if you have a choir sample for example, then it better have vibrato in it, if you need it because if you need to put vibrato on it via an LFO, then the LFO is used up... that's it.
This means that for truly deep synthesis, the V-Synth GT will not cut it... it's power lies in the complexity of the samples you use themselves mostly, which does not allow for much control...
So a deeper synth is needed for this task, and within a week or so, I'll be ordering synth number two... I have found it, and there really is no contender... Waldorf QUANTUM... It has samples as a great integral part of it's various oscillator algorithms, but all the synthesis types seem to compliment the GT... it also has the largest set of synthesis options in any synth today in my opinion... wavetable, Granular, Resonator, Sampler and with OS 2 also the new FM engine... it has the keys, it has the display... it has it all, simply put. It's expensive, but definitely what I would NEED.
So what is it that it has that the GT cannot provide? ... first off; the deepness of the engine... the modulation matrix to induce lots of physical control into the presets for live play... Another aspect is the synthesis types.. I'm really looking forward to using the granular engine... it's perfect for ambient pads etc... the resonator will be perfect for organic plucked sounds etc. and the FM for bellish tones... that topped with analog filters is just cool.
With those two synths I do not know what else I'd be missing really, except for maby those booming analog oscillators and filters of the Gransmother/Matriarch... but these two do not have displays, presets etc. so there really is only one candidate left for this position... and it's darn expensive... but I'll start saving up for it emediately, and should have the funds for it in 1-1.5 years.... yes... it's MOOG ONE... I hope this will induce just a bit of the MOOG MODULAR sound of the Matriarch/Grandmother into the tonality... I know it will not be perfect for this, but with the criteria I've got, plus I will only accept polysynths, I don't think any other polysynth will do the task better... not unless something new comes up before I have the funds to pay for it.
With those three synths, my path towards ambient bliss should be set...
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Enjoy your new synths mate :) I’ve lot both my parents and after my dad died I bought my first synth and then got obsessed after that first one. Like yourself I started to think ‘what’s the point in just existing on the planet without having things that you enjoy’. I’ve worked hard and don’t want to look back on life thinking that I could have bought more synths :)
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I lost my father yesterday Raz. So the only thing I want to say is I wish you nothing but success and enjoyment on your path to ambient bliss.
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I lost my father yesterday Raz. So the only thing I want to say is I wish you nothing but success and enjoyment on your path to ambient bliss.
My deepest condolences to you both. While I don't know either of you personally, I've interacted with both of you on this forum long enough to know this: you have each had instilled in of you a decency and respect for others that we hope to exist in all men. I would expect your fathers would have played a large part in that.
I wish a deep harmony decend upon your hearts during this time of grief.
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Sorry to hear of your losses, Razmo and Lobolives. May your fathers rest in peace.
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Condolences to you both from me too.
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Razmo, LoboLives, sorry to hear of your losses. My deepest condolences to you both.
LoboLives I'm glad you got to spend a good amount of quality time with your father recently, I have to mention envied your musical relationship with him.
Razmo, it's not "just knowledge you will take to the grave" if you continue to participate in these sorts of forums, where way more people are readers than writers. I understand your desire to leave behind some serious music and have thought about that too, but also have seen so much music be forgotten about over the years. I prefer to focus on the knowledge that I can pass-on. You must know that your adventures in GAS are incredibly insightful for others. If you continue to share, your knowledge is not wasted on yourself alone and you leave something behind that can live on. It is an absolute shame that the midiwall archives went down all those years ago. I like to think that these pages along with some other forums may find their way to a similar archive that won't drop in the years to come.
Then there are the patches! I know I am still rather humbled that my Microwave XT patches can be accessed and used by users today thanks to Waldorf. If only there were a universal repository for patches could be uploaded for the purpose of sharing the love. Hmm maybe it's about time some sort of archive.org project to that end should be started? Of course there are those who turn a dollar for their programming but I like to think something like what happened with the Waldorf user soundsets could happen on a grander scale somewhere and not just for one company's instruments.
[afterword: too much coffee and idealist thoughts, please don't be too harsh on my ramblings!]
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Thank you to everyone for the condolences, it's appreciated... I'll comment more in depth later as I'm a bit caught up right now :)
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My condolences to you, Razmo and LoboLives. And lots of love and support throughout this time.
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I would also like to add my condolences to you both Razmo and LoboLives. I wish lots of love and strength to you and your families.
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Razmo and Lobolives sorry to hear about your Dads.
My Dad also died a couple of months ago so we have a small club going here.
All the best to you and your families.
Andy
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Very sorry to hear about your family’s losses.
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Best thoughts to you, Razmo and Lobo, and peace to your families.
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So sorry to learn about this, guys.
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Just ordered the Quantum last night, should be here one of the following days... Really exited to start using it.
I also decided to take the GAS fighting a step further... I will only be using the Quantum, and nothing else... I realized that three synths was just another excuse to buy more gear when the QUANTUM can do so many different types of synthesis anyway.
So the setup will be very very simple... Just the Q into a single stereo input on my DAW audio card, a pair of speakers and headphones... A mobile recorder and a shotgun mic. Too, to create my own samples.
I may update my audio card, speakers and headphones along the way, but it is not essential.
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Really jealous of that Quantum:) I watched the videos Tim Shoebridge did about it and I must admit that what I’ve seen so far appeals to my software developer mind!
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I had a Quantum, but it was defective. In the honeymoon stage I thought it was going to be the greatest digital front-end synth since the PPG Wave. Alas it was too clinical for my taste and can't hold a candle to the PPG.
Right now I only have a P6 and Rytm MkII, which is all I really need. Unless Sequential releases something similar to Paul's Prophet Wave design or a knobby FM synth, I won't be buying anything anytime soon.
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Just ordered the Quantum last night, should be here one of the following days... Really exited to start using it.
I also decided to take the GAS fighting a step further... I will only be using the Quantum, and nothing else... I realized that three synths was just another excuse to buy more gear when the QUANTUM can do so many different types of synthesis anyway.
So the setup will be very very simple... Just the Q into a single stereo input on my DAW audio card, a pair of speakers and headphones... A mobile recorder and a shotgun mic. Too, to create my own samples.
I may update my audio card, speakers and headphones along the way, but it is not essential.
Annnddd........ the saga continues. Very much looking forward to it.
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... I will only be using the Quantum, and nothing else... I realized that three synths was just another excuse to buy more gear when the QUANTUM can do so many different types of synthesis anyway.
I'm sure I've heard you say this before ;) I keep buying stuff I shouldn't be if I want to get a Quantum :-\
So the setup will be very very simple... Just the Q into a single stereo input on my DAW audio card, a pair of speakers and headphones... A mobile recorder and a shotgun mic. Too, to create my own samples.
I may update my audio card, speakers and headphones along the way, but it is not essential.
I had something similar some years ago, but with an e5000 being fed by a mixer with various sources, back into the same mixer (yay for 6 bus mixers), then going into an old Yammy MT120 4trk. The E-MU Ultras were absolute beasts of synths.
Sample well and you could do almost any form of synthesis. The only thing they lacked was a good control surface.
Supposedly I am in slim-mode right now but I can't seem to curb the GAS, which is eating my Quantum fund. I was going to stick at one drummer, one synth, one sequencer. It's now three drummers (ADX-1 Uno Drum, Volca Drum), three synths (Blofeld, Pulse 1, MicroFreak), three sequencers (BSP, Keystep and another). Need to get through seven more months before I even have the space for a fullsize keyed synth so there is still hope!
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I also decided to take the GAS fighting a step further... I will only be using the Quantum, and nothing else... I realized that three synths was just another excuse to buy more gear when the QUANTUM can do so many different types of synthesis anyway.
Of synths to try to tackle the world with, the Quantum is an excellent choice. It is a bit of a unique Chamaeleon in today’s synthesizer marketplace, and it really can tackle lots of various sonic ground.
Does this mean you’re selling your other synthesizers?
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I also decided to take the GAS fighting a step further... I will only be using the Quantum, and nothing else... I realized that three synths was just another excuse to buy more gear when the QUANTUM can do so many different types of synthesis anyway.
Of synths to try to tackle the world with, the Quantum is an excellent choice. It is a bit of a unique Chamaeleon in today’s synthesizer marketplace, and it really can tackle lots of various sonic ground.
Does this mean you’re selling your other synthesizers?
Yes... GT is the only one left. Two synthesizers mean double the space, half focus on each... I have to do This... it is me and my Quantum to the grave... I Will NOT even upgrade it if something new Can beat it because all my Sounds Will NOT port over Then.
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It's finally here :)
Must say that the built quality of this thing is ace... the keybed is probably the best I've played, especially with the aftertouch which is absolutely perfect... I almost quit on aftertouch because most keybeds suck at it, but this is actually useable. I was also surprised to see that both wheels are of solid metal giving them a really sturdy feel.
The visual feedback on this thing is nothing short of incredible... the color LEDs on the knobs may look like a christmas tree, but it's really informative, and all the moving/animated feedback on the display is really helpfull... even the FX compressor has vicual feedback on how it lowers the volume in realtime with waveform view and all... really impressive.
I also like the sound a lot... it sits very neutral I'd say, so it's not a MOOG bass boomer, but it certainly has bass if you want it to.
I'm really happy with thi synth... finally I'm free from SoundDiver and third party editors for synths... it's a completely self contained piece of gear. It will do almost any sound, and is especially suited for ambient styles.
now it is time to dive in deep and get to know this synth all out...
I don't think I woud miss anything else, except maybe for the lack of analog oscillators, but I will not know for sure until I've spent a lot more time with it... currently I can see an advantage in having this plus a MOOG ONE, as they would complement each other nicely I think... maybe a less expensive solution like a monophonic analog synth to go with it for those analog ocillators... Maybe even a Waldorf Pulse 2 would do the trick nicely... but now we're into GAS territory again, so I better just SHUT UP and get going ;D
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A normal card deck has 52 cards in it and can supposedly be shuffled 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,403,766,975,289,505,440,883,277,824,000,000,000,000 different ways. People claim the P6 is bread and butter, yet every time I switch it on I learn something new, however subtle it may be. As long as I have a nice poly VCO, I'm happy and if I had a Moog One I certainly wouldn't need another synth. As it is, I'm never going to run out of new pleasing and usable sound palettes.
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It's finally here :)
Must say that the built quality of this thing is ace... the keybed is probably the best I've played, especially with the aftertouch which is absolutely perfect... I almost quit on aftertouch because most keybeds suck at it, but this is actually useable. I was also surprised to see that both wheels are of solid metal giving them a really sturdy feel.
The visual feedback on this thing is nothing short of incredible... the color LEDs on the knobs may look like a christmas tree, but it's really informative, and all the moving/animated feedback on the display is really helpfull... even the FX compressor has vicual feedback on how it lowers the volume in realtime with waveform view and all... really impressive.
I also like the sound a lot... it sits very neutral I'd say, so it's not a MOOG bass boomer, but it certainly has bass if you want it to.
I'm really happy with thi synth... finally I'm free from SoundDiver and third party editors for synths... it's a completely self contained piece of gear. It will do almost any sound, and is especially suited for ambient styles.
now it is time to dive in deep and get to know this synth all out...
I don't think I woud miss anything else, except maybe for the lack of analog oscillators, but I will not know for sure until I've spent a lot more time with it... currently I can see an advantage in having this plus a MOOG ONE, as they would complement each other nicely I think... maybe a less expensive solution like a monophonic analog synth to go with it for those analog ocillators... Maybe even a Waldorf Pulse 2 would do the trick nicely... but now we're into GAS territory again, so I better just SHUT UP and get going ;D
Bitchin'! There's something to be said about siting down with one instrument and hitting record.
Congratulations! :)
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I wanted a directional shotgun microphone to go with my Quantum, so that I can record all types of acoustic things, and I have ordered a Sennheiser MKH 416 P48... I think this will prove useful, both at home and out in the fields.
I quickly realized though, that it is a condenser mic, and that it wants 48v of phantom power that neither Quantum or RME AIO soundcard has, so now I have had to order a standalone preamp as well ::) ... for outdoor use I will have to find yet another solution, but that can wait.
Also, next month I may purchase an e Touche controller for the Quantum. Quantum has a host USB port that should allow to connect this directly to the Quantum. I find that with so many ways to modulate stuff on the Quantum, and 40 modulation slots, that some extra physical controls would be handy, and the e Touche controller looks nice and sensitive.
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And something to make it work with phantom power outside was also needed ::)
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Well... It seems like I have found the right tool for my third synth. .. PRO3... I have really warmed up to the PRO3 sound as it seems to have both that cool vintage sound that I need for basses, leads and sequences, but also what to me remind me of the dirty hybrid sound of the Evolvers.
The Evolvers hybrid architecture always sounded profoundly hybrid to me... Not just what sounds like digital oscillators thru analog filters... Many other hybrids do not have that character, but Evolver and Pro3 does... PROOHET12 do not for some reason... It sounds too "separated" in lack of better words... Many things digital sounds too clinic even thru analog filters i feel... A good hybrid sound makes the digital part morph into something in between digital and analog, making it its own sound character... Do not know how else to describe it. Other old synths that had this was Microwave 1, ESQ-1 and the like.
I will also be using the PRO3 as a source for samples for Quantum, trying to pull some of that analog sound into polyphony on Quantum for pads etc.
I've allready saved up more than half the SE price, and should have it funded in two months time which fits the date at which Thomann will have it in stock... So until then it is just me and my Quantum spending some quality time together.
I hope I will get used to programing the PRO3 solely from its panel so that I do not have to create editors again... But it looks like it would be easy to get used to.
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I find the Pro2 easy enough to use from the panel alone and it looks like they've made the Pro3 even better from this point of view, so I can't imagine you having any issues with it :)
One of the main things I miss when going from the Pro2 to any of my other synths is the view of the envelopes on the screen. I find that really useful.
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I find the Pro2 easy enough to use from the panel alone and it looks like they've made the Pro3 even better from this point of view, so I can't imagine you having any issues with it :)
One of the main things I miss when going from the Pro2 to any of my other synths is the view of the envelopes on the screen. I find that really useful.
I assume that PRO3 will also have that feature (?) ... but yes... any parameter you tweak should be viewable in the display, especially with those few controls that serve as more than one parameter like the LFOs and Envelopes.
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I find the Pro2 easy enough to use from the panel alone and it looks like they've made the Pro3 even better from this point of view, so I can't imagine you having any issues with it :)
One of the main things I miss when going from the Pro2 to any of my other synths is the view of the envelopes on the screen. I find that really useful.
I assume that PRO3 will also have that feature (?)
Yes, the Pro 3 displays the envelopes.
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Now with two of my three synths sorted out, and with nothing on the market right now that seems to bring what I need of the third and last synth, I have been thinking what i exactly would need... it is not really at all that easy, since Quantum and Pro3 will cover an enormous lot of synthesis ground already...
The Quantum gives FM, Wavetable, Granular, Regular sampler, Resonator and VA synthesis in the digital realm which cover almost everything, and more may be added in the future... it even has analog filters to boot... but even with all that, you can easily hear that Quantum is a hybrid... the missing real vcos is rather clear, and the digital front end sounds much like the typical Blofeld... polished and clinic with the analog tearing it up a bit... it is a magnificent synth, but I realized that for certain types of sounds, I would have to go for analog oscillators and a ladder filter.
This is where the PRO3 comes in... it will fill out that gap perfectly, and give me loads of other options due to its digital wavetable oscillator... it is litterally the perfect solution for me.
But that makes it even harder to decide for the third synth, since my requirement is that it fill a needed role in my setup, and there is not much left... one thing that would lure me is maybe a polyphonic analog synth with at least 16 voices, but I want vcos and discrete filters with a different character to what I allready have... and Curtis filters is out of the question. I want patch storage, built in FX and stereo outs plus a mod matrix. Built in Arp and Sequencer is a must too.
In essence, the REV2 is what come closest to the goal, but I do not want it with Curtis filters, so I thought, why not a Sequencial poly analog synth like REV2 that has 2 standard PRO3 VCOs with a sub oscillator per VCO... then make a VCF plugin system with a 16 VCFs on it, so that the user could buy the filter he likes most. Ladder, ob6, p6, SSI etc... maybe even others like ARP, Wasp, Polivoks etc. If the filter could be inserted like a cartridge it would be even cooler... people would want to have more than one cartridge. This also reduce the added cost of having more filter types in a polysynth etc.
I am sure Sequential could make it even better enginewise than the REV2 I only gave that as an example...
Keywords:
Deep engine
Exchangeable filter cartridge
VCOs
One function per knob philosophy (no dual timbral functionality please!)
High quality keybed plus desktop version
Built in FX
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Now with two of my three synths sorted out, and with nothing on the market right now that seems to bring what I need of the third and last synth, I have been thinking what i exactly would need...
I thought your 3 synths were the Quantum, V-Synth and Pro-3?
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Now with two of my three synths sorted out, and with nothing on the market right now that seems to bring what I need of the third and last synth, I have been thinking what i exactly would need...
I thought your 3 synths were the Quantum, V-Synth and Pro-3?
I have shelved the V-Synth... I cannot part with it until I find that third synth, so yes, it is that third synth until a proper replacement is found ;)... But I am pretty cerain it will be replaced at some point... Only the time is unknown.
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.....transplanted response from the ‘Next New DSI Synth’ thread
Now with two of my three synths sorted out, and with nothing on the market right now that seems to bring what I need of the third and last synth, I have been thinking what i exactly would need... it is not really at all that easy, since Quantum and Pro3 will cover an enormous lot of synthesis ground already...
The Quantum gives FM, Wavetable, Granular, Regular sampler, Resonator and VA synthesis in the digital realm which cover almost everything, and more may be added in the future... it even has analog filters to boot... but even with all that, you can easily hear that Quantum is a hybrid... the missing real vcos is rather clear, and the digital front end sounds much like the typical Blofeld... polished and clinic with the analog tearing it up a bit... it is a magnificent synth, but I realized that for certain types of sounds, I would have to go for analog oscillators and a ladder filter.
This is where the PRO3 comes in... it will fill out that gap perfectly, and give me loads of other options due to its digital wavetable oscillator... it is litterally the perfect solution for me.
But that makes it even harder to decide for the third synth, since my requirement is that it fill a needed role in my setup, and there is not much left... one thing that would lure me is maybe a polyphonic analog synth with at least 16 voices, but I want vcos and discrete filters with a different character to what I allready have... and Curtis filters is out of the question. I want patch storage, built in FX and stereo outs plus a mod matrix. Built in Arp and Sequencer is a must too.
In essence, the REV2 is what come closest to the goal, but I do not want it with Curtis filters, so I thought, why not a Sequencial poly analog synth like REV2 that has 2 standard PRO3 VCOs with a sub oscillator per VCO... then make a VCF plugin system with a 16 VCFs on it, so that the user could buy the filter he likes most. Ladder, ob6, p6, SSI etc... maybe even others like ARP, Wasp, Polivoks etc. If the filter could be inserted like a cartridge it would be even cooler... people would want to have more than one cartridge. This also reduce the added cost of having more filter types in a polysynth etc.
I am sure Sequential could make it even better enginewise than the REV2 I only gave that as an example...
Keywords:
Deep engine
Exchangeable filter cartridge
VCOs
One function per knob philosophy (no dual timbral functionality please!)
High quality keybed plus desktop version
Built in FX
Well, your third synth seems like it will either be the Moog One, Prologue 16, or an Andromeda.
Or you could get creative with a synth + effects combination like:
- SE Omega 8 + and Eventide Elipse
- Oberheim OBX + a pair of Eventide H9 pedals
- Juno 106 + Kurzweil KSP8
Or you could get creative by doing a pair of smaller polys and treating them as one synth:
- and OB6 keyboard + Desktop model (add an LFE and there’s your mod matrix)
- a pair of Deckard’s Dreams
- a Jupiter 6 and an MKS-80
... lots of possibilities there.
Now with two of my three synths sorted out, and with nothing on the market right now that seems to bring what I need of the third and last synth, I have been thinking what i exactly would need...
I thought your 3 synths were the Quantum, V-Synth and Pro-3?
I have shelved the V-Synth... I cannot part with it until I find that third synth, so yes, it is that third synth until a proper replacement is found ;) ... But I am pretty cerain it will be replaced at some point... Only the time is unknown.
Keep looking. :)
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My recommendation would be to stick with the Quantum and get either a P6 or Ob-6 instead of the Pro 3. The Quantum is capable of any kind of fanciful sound design that you can think of, yet it's clinical and lacks in the raw organic department. This is where the aforementioned VCO polys come into play. Even though the P6 for example lacks the modulation capabilities of say, the REV2, it's far more versatile in the raw timbre department with its poly mod section and analog HPF, sprinkled in with a tiny bit of analog distortion when a little girth is needed. The timbre and the way they behave when played constantly reminds me of playing real instruments far more than any sample of an acoustic instrument or DCO/NCO synths with lots of modulation options. That said, it's not going to sound more like a piano than a sample of a piano, but also that it's not meant to. I thought of perhaps adding the low frequency expander to my P6, then I listened to some examples and realized how much the extra modulation detracts from the elegant nature of the sounds it produces. I realized that perhaps the very most beautiful sounds I've heard on records come from VCO synths that have no more than one LFO. That's exactly where VCOs have a chance to shine imo. Look at what the Matrix 12 can do compared to the OB-X, yet which of the two is more highly coveted in general. Also look at how many people say they prefer their OB-6 over their One.
With that extremely logical two synth setup, I don't think you'd need anything else for a very long time. You can also save lots of space by getting the module and playing everything on the nice five octave TP/8S of the Quantum. This is coming from someone who has had the Quantum (albeit only briefly) and has owned pretty much every DSI product in one form or another.
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I actiually had the OB6 in mind for the third, but unfortubately it lacks a ladder filter... That filter is very important to me to get close to moog modular bass sequences, and had the PRO3 not had it, I probably would not have gotten it... The three filters is one very big reason I want this... Plus the analog vcos ofcourse.
So I cannot replace the PRO3 for a P6 or OB6... My main concern with these are rather that they do not give me 8 voices... But I have not totally dismissed them
One certsin thing is that the third synth must be a desktop... I do not have the space, which is also why i chose to shelve the GT until I want to use it.
The engine depth of a P6 or OB6 does not concern me since I can use the Quantum for the complex dtuff... The unique thing I want from an analog poly must be something the Quantum cannot, and basically that can only get down to the same as for PRO3... Vcos and vcfs... Thus I can see why you woulld have me considder a P6 or OB6... Had there been a 6voice ladder as well as thise two, I might have simply gotten one of each and the Quantum and leave out the PRO3... But then again... PRO3 has one more unique aspect: paraphonic which to me sounds cool for many things... Also the arp and sequencer are supperior and something I really want to use when layering with Quantum... You have to understand that I layer all three synths as if they were a single entity, for some massive layered performances, and PRO3 fits perfectly in this from so many angles.
I am not in doubt about PRO3... I am in doubt about the third synth... I just cannot find any selfcontained analog poly that fit the bill yet... But it will come... I am sure of it :D
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I actiually had the OB6 in mind for the third, but unfortubately it lacks a ladder filter... That filter is very important to me to get close to moog modular bass sequences, and had the PRO3 not had it, I probably would not have gotten it... The three filters is one very big reason I want this... Plus the analog vcos ofcourse.
So I cannot replace the PRO3 for a P6 or OB6... My main concern with these are rather that they do not give me 8 voices... But I have not totally dismissed them
One certain thing is that the third synth must be a desktop... I do not have the space, which is also why i chose to shelve the GT until I want to use it.
The engine depth of a P6 or OB6 does not concern me since I can use the Quantum for the complex stuff... The unique thing I want from an analog poly must be something the Quantum cannot, and basically that can only get down to the same as for PRO3... Vcos and vcfs... Thus I can see why you would have me considder a P6 or OB6... Had there been a 6voice ladder as well as these two, I might have simply gotten one of each and the Quantum and leave out the PRO3... But then again... PRO3 has one more unique aspect: paraphonic which to me sounds cool for many things... Also the arp and sequencer are supperior and something I really want to use when layering with Quantum... You have to understand that I layer all three synths as if they were a single entity, for some massive layered performances, and PRO3 fits perfectly in this from so many angles.
I am not in doubt about PRO3... I am in doubt about the third synth... I just cannot find any selfcontained analog poly that fit the bill yet... But it will come... I am sure of it :D
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Sounds like you're waiting for a poly desktop Moog.
Else....
https://youtu.be/wfPMvBxwdbg
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Moog seems to have raised the price of the One in the States by half a grand. Crazy.
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Moog ONE in desktop will never happen... A 16 rack Slim Phatty is overkill...
And no, I do not really need a MOOG now that the ladder filter is in PRO3... I would actually like a totally different filter than p6, ob6 and ladder, but which lend itself nicely to pads, strings... Preferably a little oldschool dirty with saturation capabilities to create pads and strings that sound a bit 70s.... ARP filters maybe... I like ARP filters too... Or maybe a new synth using the SSI filter chips... I ONCE HAD A Korg Polysix and those SSM filters together with their oscillator chips sounded really warm and fuzzy... I actually would like a poly with analog fx too like the polysix.
Anyway... Current synths du not fit the bill except for maybe the Xerxes from Black Coorporation, though not vcos... It sounds really cool.
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I think the Kijimi is their best sounding synth by far, which gets overlooked by the DD and for some reason even the Xerxes. I had the DD/Expander for a minute and the kindest thing I can say about it is that the HPF is really nice. Supposedly the Xerxes' DCOs are unique, but I have yet to hear anything that stood out like others seem to think. If it wasn't for the price, mono out, and slim support, I would have recommended the Kijimi for an 8 voice VCO. I'm pretty sure the Kijimi has the SSI 2144 that you're looking for. At least it sounds like it to my ears...
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I have decided to drop thinking about a third synth right now, because I believe that all the tvinking is just a simple way of telling me, I do not need anything else right now... So it has been shelved along with the GT until something changes perspectives.
Instead I have warmed up to some Eurorack module additions to my PRO3. It is mostly for putting some modules into the PRO3s own signal path, but it has shown to be doable by routing individual oscillators out, and then back in via external in... This allows me to insert other analog filters that can be controlled directly from the matrix... Very powerful. Other modules than filters could be interresting, like auto FM modules, waveshapers, ringmodulators, distortions etc... Many exiting possibilities.
A few oscillators could also prove interresting, if they offer something unique, and they can also be controlled via cv outs on PRO3... I am going to get a TipTop Audio ONE sample player for it, as this gives some nice possibilities for firing off single shot fx samples, vocals etc. And mangle them thro the PRO3...
So I looked at a practical eurorack case for this add on, and the only one that meet my requirement of leaving some space to the table surface is a 6u RackBrute... The PRO3 can stand perfectly in front of this, and all modules be readilly available for patching...
So I guess I am on the Eurorack bandwagon again... Scary... ;D
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I feel it come creeping in again from behind... That viscious alluring GAS, and I do not see it coming right away... This time it is my plans for a 6U RackBrute full of filters for the PRO3... Jesus christ! I do not need this, the PRO3 already have three of the most reknown types on board.
I really want to use the Eurorack features though, and I think I found the perfect stationary setup for the CV ins and outs...
One thing I would really like is to have a device that simply fire off single shot samples for fx, vocal phrases and samples in general. I could do this with Quantum, but it would require tedious preset development to continuously add samples to a library like that... I need something where I quickly browse a bunch of samples on an SD card with a knob, and then be able to play that sample chromatically... And this is where Eurorack is handy, so I took a good look at sample player modules and found a dual stereo module from 4ms that also allow for some CV modulation.
I will simply add this one module as two sample playback oscillators to PRO3 via ext. Input, and connect the CV and gate cables to it... This way I can program PRO3 presets intended to completely mangle whatever sample I choose to play, and with the module in mono mix mode, it will serve as two oscillators... It will also give some fun possibilities playing rave and hardcore orchestral sounds chromatically for those 90s hardcore vibes, full of analog sauce comming from the PRO3. It could do all these cheesy 90s sampler sounds by using samples of sustained analog synth sounds, and then mold it thru the PRO3 filters for dirt and grit... With the sample oscillators set not to reset on gate input, every new hit would start at whatever the sample is at in its loop.. A bit like free runninge sample oscillators, and with two of them you can do all the usual dual oscillator detuning tricks etc.
It will be a permanent setup... So I will get one of those powered POD20 cases that 4ms also make that fit the sample module perfectly as it is also 20hp wide.
I feel I need to do this... A 6u RackBrute will only lead to GAS disaster ;D
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Just to let you know if you wonder why I do not rant so much these days, I am running in and out of hospitals for examinations, scans and bloodsamples. I was diagnosed with rectal cancer on 25th of october last year, and my life has been turned upside down since then.
I just finished 28 rounds of chemotherapy and radiation therapy, and am currently waiting for more blood testing, scans and examinations before surgery early April.
In general I have been lucky... despite an 8cm tumor up there, my immunesystem has kept any metastases from forming anywhere else, and it also took me thru low dose chemo without it even being visible in my bloodsamples..they joked about me having placebo tablets.
Anyone normal in my situation survive 70% of the time they say, and factors personally for me raise that barrier... I am young, do not drink or smoke and my immunesystem is extrodinary... so I am not afraid I will not win this battle, but it will not be without a few scars, and I am sick and tired of not being able to sit in the studio for more than 20min at a time.
The surgery will most likely result in removal of the rectum, and the colon sewn on directly, resulting in an 8week stomia...but I will survive that too.
So if you wonder why I may be a bit quiet from time to time, you now know why :)
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Best wishes to you from me my friend :)
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I'm sorry to hear that, but it sounds like you're under excellent care. Best wishes.
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Hang in there, Razmo.
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Best wishes, Razmo. I hope you get well soon.
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You have the right approach Razmo, best regards.
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Thank you for the kind words everyone... Dolnt worry, I'll make it thru ;)
Anyway, to get back to some proper ranting, as you probably have guessed already, I am still wondering about what 3rd synth will close my studio... It is constantly on my mind.
Quantum deliver anything I need in polyphony and synthesis tech up to about 80%... PRO3 take up part of the last 20%, mainly in the analog front end part, doing analog sequences, basses and lead sounds.
I am bending my brain to figure out what unique stuff I need for those last 10%... The only thing I feel I may miss is analog front end polyphony, though I am almost certain that Quantum can do a good job anyway with its analog filters.
Anyway, there just may be something unique about the raw tone of analog discrete vcos that Quantum may not deliver... My mind keep crossing either ob6 or p6, but I would rather really have one with another filter than those already in the PRO3... I have looked a bit at Prologue, but I am put off by the not very deep engine. I want its filters to sound oldschool 70s like which is hard to find with the criteria I got... I am almost certain that the only places I will find what I require will be either Waldorf, Sequential, MOOG, KORG or Novation.
What further complicate matter is that anything above 800mm in width is not possible, and that limits keyboard to 3 or 4 octaves which will be hard to find in an 8 to 16 voice polysynth...
I wonder what the big things Sequential are up to these days are... They wrote that we should not expect updates to prior synths in the coming time, so they must be wlrking on something big now, and I have s feeling it may be that missing 16 voice discrete component analog polysynth that currently ks lacking in their lineup, especially one that will take up the battle with the MOOG ONE... Which lead me to wonder if the new ladder filter in PRO3 was testing grounds for the next big thing to come.
A yway, I am almost ceftain that my third choise will probably be a Sequential product, so I better wait and see... There is still nothing that really has my interrest right now, and the ones that could work, have too many keys on them... Prologue16 and SUMMIT...
I actually think that a REV2 engine, with descrete curcuit vcos and SSI filter chips would do it for me... Maybe even a newly developed analog oscillator chip to go with the SSI filter chips would be cost effective... Now top that with the same FX as compiled on the PRO3 and that might wery well be what I am after, in a 4 oct keybed with wheels ABOVE the keys to limit width to within 800mm.
16 voices an absolute minimum btw. And no dual layer functionality, so that the front panel is intuitive to use not representing more than one parameter at any time.
I also wonder, if Sequential mah put out a third variant on the P6 with the ladder filter instead... I could see that working.
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Thinking about cost effectiveness of chips indtead of discrete, not to mention pitch stabillity etc... I really think that the audio marked is ripe for newly developed ones.
The problem with the curtis is not the filter actually, it is that it is a synth on a chip where the signal flow is completely closed for any changes... What I think is needed is new chips that divide this into the three infividual synthesis blocks: VCO, VCF and VCA.
If three chips was used like that, there is no limit to what else you could put in between them hardwarewise, which could make each synth using these chips unique in many ways... I also believe that with surfacemount chips, curcuit size could be made much smaller.
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Razmo, just seen this. Good luck with everything and look after yourself.
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Be strong, Razmataz! We need you around here brother.
Wishing you a speedy recovery.
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All best vibes for recovery, sir!
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I have long been wanting to get my soundcard out of my noisy computer, especially because of the headphone output. I make most in headphones, so I want a relatively high quality headphone amplifier.
The AIO has served me fine, I just do not want to rely on PCIe slots anymore, so I will switch to a Babyface Pro FS soon. It has the two analog stereo inputs I need for Quantum and PRO3, and the headphone outs are a big step up for me.
I still do not know if I will ever need a third synth, or even more, so I can live with the Babyface for some time without problems.
If I decide I want more, I will just find an ADAT converter for the Babyface, and add 4 more stereo synths to it... In that case, I will simply replace the right side of my desktop for a 4 unit Jasper keyboard stand, problem solved.
Now all I am waiting for is me PRO3 SE to arrive... Tapping fingers here :o
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So much for preordering and waiting... SE version should be ready by end febuary, but now my order is shown to be delayed another three to four weeks and will fall right in the middle of my operation where I won't be home to recieve it... Perfect timing... I had actually been looking forward to try it out before I go, but that was not meant to be... Obviously ::)
Well... I guess the torture has been extended... :o
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So much for preordering and waiting... SE version should be ready by end febuary, but now my order is shown to be delayed another three to four weeks and will fall right in the middle of my operation where I won't be home to recieve it... Perfect timing... I had actually been looking forward to try it out before I go, but that was not meant to be... Obviously ::)
Well... I guess the torture has been extended... :o
:(
https://youtu.be/dzc5vW9Ze44
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Well... as the PRO3 SE was delayed, and now also the PRO3, I decided that maybe it was better if I waited a bit getting this synth, and see what the reactions are after it's release... I'd like to see what bugs are present from the get go etc. before I actually buy the thing.
Instead I decided, that I'd invest in another synth I've been wanting since it came out, both because it is insanely cool sounding, and also a very deep polysynth. I need something to layer with my 8voice Quantum, which was what the PRO3 was basically meant to do, but it is nice that this synth is actually a polysynth for many different reasons.
I'm talking about a Novation SUMMIT, which I have now ordered. It has a lot of unique things, even if it's sonic territory is a lot of the same as the Quantum, but point is that both have their own character and bells and whistles.
Here are some of the reasons I want it:
1. 16 voices of polyphony... lets face it... with dual timbrality you need at least 16 voices.
2. Dual Timbrality. It gives you so many sound editing possibilities when layering.
3. The new filters that can be split and routed in various ways, very useful.
4. The FPGA oscillators, which simply sound fantastic compared to anything else.
5. The FPGA FX engine which has probably the coolest ambient reverb ever put into a synth.
6. It's rhythmic Arpeggiator which is rather useful... will be used a lot with layering the Quantum.
7. It's multiple instances of analog distortion possibilities which gives some unique opportunities.
So even, if at first glance, the SUMMIT may seem overkill when you already own a QUANTUM, you can also see that it has a lot on offer, that the QUANTUM just do not.
Unfortunately this also forces me to finaly buy a Jasper keyboard stand... I'll get one with room for four to begin with, that way I'm covered if I decide I will add an ADAT converter for four more stereo synths at some point. My next purchase will undoubtedly be an RME BabyFace Pro FS, to get my soundcard out of the computer, and it has a maximum of 12 channels including the ADAT channels, equaling a maximum of 6 synths connected at any one time... I'll keep that as my future limit, even If I had decided for three synths only... I won't be able to control myself anyway, and I really don't care anymore to be honest.
After these two, I'll get the Pro3, but as the setup will have changed since, I do not need an angled front panel, so it will most likely be the standard version instead... i'm not paying that much extra for a bunch of wood basically.
So the real analog oscillators will have to wait a bit... but that's ok, I will focus on Quantum and SUMMIT for the time being which is more than enough right now.
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Now that I ordered the SUMMIT, and have gotten used to that shift from PRO3 mono to SUMMIT poly, I can say that I am glad I decided to put the PRO3 on hold.
What I initially was after with my 3 synth setup was actually one big synth with 3 layers, mainly because I enjoy playing an arpeggio layer on a pad layer, and would like to play more with live polyrhythmic stuff, and that require some synths that has both arpeggiators and sequencers that can trigger when playing live, and preferably are dual timbral so I can get up to six different tracks going in layered modes.
This was why PRO3 was interresting (one reason) since it has both and even let you arpeggiate sequenced patterns.
What gnaws most with me about PRO3 is the fact that it is only monophonic, as my genre is more minded toward polysynths.
I am still on the marked for that 3rd synth, but with Quantum and Summit working together already, it is really hard to find anything interresting.
I am still thinking heavilly about getting an analog polysynth since I have no vcos... But with now two keybeds of 5 octaves it is impossible to fit in another 5oct keyboard here, so it would have to be a desktop module, or no more than 3oct.
I do not think a 4oct P6 or OB6 would fit, otherwise that could work, but I do not like the shallow engine depth... Everytime I try to look at an analog poly that seem to hit most of my sweetspots, it is REV2... But I really do not want that filter!
So in the end, my current interrest falls on the PRO3... Again... I will probably end up with that one as soon as I have the money for it, unless another miracle happens on the marked before that. Had PRO3 been polyphonic, with 8 to 16 voices and dual timbrality, it would have been selfwritten.
Another solution would be a simplified polyphonic version of the PRO3, with 6 voices like in the same lineup as p6 and ob6... That with a 3 or 4oct keybed, and I would be on it... If only feasible with one filter, then the new ladder variant, no doubt!
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I've now got the LFE for my P6. I won't even go back and add extra modulation to the majority of the hundred patches I've already done because they sound so good as is. There's a natural beauty to them that I would frankly only convolute by doing so. I can't even imagine stacking a Quantum and Summit, let alone adding yet another synth to the mix all playing the same line.
My Summit is still on back order and I'm worried that I might not even get mine as the store is reportedly closing...
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I'd be interested to hear what all of you who are getting the Summit think of it when you've had a chance to play with it :) There's not many videos out there yet (except the ones from 6 months ago)
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I've now got the LFE for my P6. I won't even go back and add extra modulation to the majority of the hundred patches I've already done because they sound so good as is. There's a natural beauty to them that I would frankly only convolute by doing so. I can't even imagine stacking a Quantum and Summit, let alone adding yet another synth to the mix all playing the same line.
My Summit is still on back order and I'm worried that I might not even get mine as the store is reportedly closing...
But they are not playing the same line, that is the whole point... but playing an ambient pad, layered with a proper (or more than one) Arpeggiator/Sequence can give some really gorgous sounds you do not get without layering sounds... that's why I would want to have three such synths layered for some serious polyrhythmic arpeggiating or sequencing (or combined), being all triggered by the same key triggers from the Quantum though... anytime I could play the synths keys themelves, and let them play differently, or even sequence them all from a DAW via USB... it just seems like the way for me to find these "holy three" :)
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Weeks added to my SUMMIT delivery.... Good I do not have the time for it right away :o
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With all the craziness going on, my chances of getting the Summit aren't looking so hot... I did just trade my like new Rytm Mk.II for my old Tempest back today. I don't care about the shortcoming - by far the best groove box/drum machine of all time, as well as best DCO synth DSI ever made. Glad to not deal with the hassle of thinking about what samples to import or export.
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With all the craziness going on, my chances of getting the Summit aren't looking so hot... I did just trade my like new Rytm Mk.II for my old Tempest back today. I don't care about the shortcoming - by far the best groove box/drum machine of all time, as well as best DCO synth DSI ever made. Glad to not deal with the hassle of thinking about what samples to import or export.
Depend on what you want to use the TEMPEST for... I don't mind ROM samples, but as it was created a a drumsynth, I do not get why they did not put much more thought into the pallette of sounds as samples of different sonic character instead of all those boring recreations of 808's 909's Linn's and other accoustic sounds... this would have been a much more modern sounding synth if the samples had been more varied and prepared for programing manuipulation.
Sure you can get lots of cool sounds ffrom it... it jus my personal opinion.
...and now I've got 7-8 weeks of added waiting until the SUMMIT arrives... jesus christ ::)
BTW. the more I think of it, one thing that TEMPEST is lacking is build in master FX with sends... I know it has sepearate outs bu that is jus too cumbersome to deal with.. cables, mixers, FX and all...
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When I bought the Rytm I thought master FX would come in handy, but I never ended up using them. I just don't find them all that useful for percussive sounds. As for the samples, I don't see them lacking at all considering how open ended the synth engine is. They'll mostly be mangled beyond recognition or used for attack transients. Another thing is, I certainly wouldn't use the Curtis filter for lush or clean tones, but it has a dirtiness that's great for certain uses. I played an Ensoniq Esq-1 the other day and it sounded amazing. It may be crude by today's standards, albeit has character that's lacking tremendously in modern day equivalents. The Tempest is in the same territory, so the lack of reverb is not that crucial, unlike the OB-6 and P6 that are greatly hurt by not having a decent reverb like the super plate. The (possible) Tempest X may be amazing, but I don't see it having the character that the original has. I actually like the synth sounds that come out of it more than anything I've heard come out of the PX. Again, no sample hassle is also a huge plus for me. Ratchets (as Sequential is calling them), more robust external MIDI capabilities, & parameter locks will be a huge plus, but not worth what will be lost imo.
On a side note, the Rytm's filters while much more robust as far as modes are concerned, sounded weak-sauce no matter what imo. I couldn't find much reason to use them beyond the pads that could utilize the VCO engine. The cymbal engines were not to my taste and there's no reason to use the filters on the samples, beyond using them in conjunction with the noise generator that's available on those pads. And good lord, for that price, Elektron should have known better than to cut corners on something as massively important as decent pads.
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The cowbell on the Rytm is also completely unusable for people like me who don't care for techno/house or whatever Elektron's target audience is. So the top row of engines (or machines as they call them) I could only use for noise, impulse, and/or samples.
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I've always looked at the Tempest as a rhythm machine..be it as a drum machine, bass synth, pads etc.
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I could do without a reverb maybe, but a real delay is what I feel the Tempest is really missing, as it would make it possible to give more depth to the rhythms... of course it also depend on what types of sounds you want to do with it... one thing I also like about the Tempest is its 32 sounds, and that you can actually use it as an FX machine also... but then again, a delay would have been really handy... the built in SEMI MIDI delay is not worth much really.
I've had the machine 3 times... I love it and hate it at the same time.
Maybe what Dave should considder is making a small percussion device, with just ONE voice and a supperb sequencer in it, and a dual FX engine.... then in some way let these be connectable, so that if you want a four voice, you just get four of them, and "click them together" in some fancy way. They should be syncable, but in any other regards completely independent of each other, one acting as a master device (the first in the chain)... it could easily be a normal desktop unit with space for 8-16 voice cards (then they could also be individually controlled via MIDI on their own channel). I'd get such a device instantly as my third... or fourth ;D
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All this waiting on PRO3SE and SUMMIT got me full circle back to my initial ideal Quantum partner: MOOG MATRIARCH... It was on stock, and has now been ordered. I also feel its the most useable piece of "analog meat" to keep the studio plate "varied"... But still the third part of the plate is empty, so mission is not yet over
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So are you still getting the Summit? I've got a Nord Wave 2 on pre-order (fully paid/nonrefundable) and a pair of Neumann 120 As on the way. My gear mission is over for the foreseeable future.
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I've just watched an in-depth demo of the Nord Wave 2 by a UK music shop and I am finding myself drawn to it. I really must stop watching YouTube videos as it costs me too much ;)
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So are you still getting the Summit? I've got a Nord Wave 2 on pre-order (fully paid/nonrefundable) and a pair of Neumann 120 As on the way. My gear mission is over for the foreseeable future.
I have no plans for the SUMMIT anyway, butvtime will tell
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All this waiting on PRO3SE and SUMMIT got me full circle back to my initial ideal Quantum partner: MOOG MATRIARCH... It was on stock, and has now been ordered. I also feel its the most useable piece of "analog meat" to keep the studio plate "varied"... But still the third part of the plate is empty, so mission is not yet over
What about the Matriarch not having presets? You mentioned that would be crucial earlier? ;-)
I want to have a Matriarch myself. When I last had the money, Thomann didn't have it in stock... and now they have it and I'm broke, because I needed to buy a new car :'(
I hope you will share your detailed impressions about it, as soon as you had the time.
Perhaps if there's no more live giggin this year, due to this corona stuff, I could sell my Kronos for it... it's a beast, but besides cover music I don't use it very much.
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I have gone several rounds with synths that don't have patch memory, as well as modular systems... while many offer great core sounds and really unique routing/patching possibilities, I always end up selling them off, and getting something similar with patch memory. With limited time to devote to playing music, I find that I usually want the option to sit down and quickly audition through sounds I've created, and just play music.
Nowadays, with flagship synths from Sequential and Moog, they have such substantial mod matrixes built in, I feel like it's pretty close to having a modular system at your fingertips, with patch memory... of course there are unique modules and possibilities outside the mainstream synths... But I don't find that I'm personally very interested in the bleep-bloops and avant garde electronica. The Pro 3 has a ridiculous 32 mod slots and such a wide variety of sources and destinations... 95% of the stuff I would try to accomplish with a modular system, I can do with the Pro 3.
That being said, if there is one synth without patch memory that I would buy, it would be the Matriarch. I've had it in my shopping cart more than once. The binaural stereo architecture can sound so immersive and huge... one of the reasons I'll probably never get rid of my PEK.
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All this waiting on PRO3SE and SUMMIT got me full circle back to my initial ideal Quantum partner: MOOG MATRIARCH... It was on stock, and has now been ordered. I also feel its the most useable piece of "analog meat" to keep the studio plate "varied"... But still the third part of the plate is empty, so mission is not yet over
Woah... Razzmatazz... going commando... ahem, without presets.
I just listed my Matriarch for sale. Just never got it out to play it — probably due to of the lack of presets because it does sound stellar. Anyway, I hope you get along better with yours.