The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet-5/Prophet-10 => Topic started by: backdoorranky on October 24, 2021, 01:31:58 PM
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The prophet-5/10 reissues are amazing. I love mine and I love the new OS with split/stack.
Even though it is a pretty faithful reissue, I think it would be great to have the option of a negative filter envelope.
Is this possible since the envelopes are software?
Maybe the user could toggle between + and - by a button combo, something like preset + keyboard tracking button?
Just spitballing here, but I think it'd be great.
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The prophet-5/10 reissues are amazing. I love mine and I love the new OS with split/stack.
Even though it is a pretty faithful reissue, I think it would be great to have the option of a negative filter envelope.
Is this possible since the envelopes are software?
Maybe the user could toggle between + and - by a button combo, something like preset + keyboard tracking button?
Just spitballing here, but I think it'd be great.
Still think this would be great!
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Yeah, if it´s possible, why not ???
I remember my old KORG Trident had
that feature back in -82 8)
An "EG Sensitivity" knob, at 12 o'clock "0", full
counter clockwise "-5 ", full clockwise "+5".
Got some useful sounds out of it ::)
Cheers !
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I would like to see that being implemented as well.
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You have to remember what the P-5 is about. Negative EG's are great and are on the other Prophets. However, part of the art of sound design are the limitations placed on you by the instrument. Dave Smith did about all he could do on a Rev. 4 and keep it true to the P-5 heritage. IMO, he did a masterful job. The feature set of the P-5 will keep the sound designer moving he direction of the original P-5.
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You have to remember what the P-5 is about. Negative EG's are great and are on the other Prophets. However, part of the art of sound design are the limitations placed on you by the instrument. Dave Smith did about all he could do on a Rev. 4 and keep it true to the P-5 heritage. IMO, he did a masterful job. The feature set of the P-5 will keep the sound designer moving he direction of the original P-5.
I do see your point. These synths are about simple controls and straight to the point editing/playing, adding too much complexity would steer it away from the desired simplicity.
That being said, adding bi-timbrality to the P-10 doesn't fit that philosophy, but the addition of it is absolutely fantastic with the reissue.
The bi-timbral option is also more complex than how I suggest a negative filter EG option could be implemented. You'd just hold preset and press the filter keytracking button to switch between positive or negative filter EG.
Adding this feature would be completely non-invasive to the authenticity of the original.
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It's strange that a lot of Prophet 5/10 reissue owners seem to be requesting a lot of features that are already available on the Prophet 6 and Prophet REV 2. I saw someone on this forum asking for an arpeggiator or sequencer to be implemented....at some point you either want an old school instrument and can accepted it for what it is or you have to move on.
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It's strange that a lot of Prophet 5/10 reissue owners seem to be requesting a lot of features that are already available on the Prophet 6 and Prophet REV 2. I saw someone on this forum asking for an arpeggiator or sequencer to be implemented....at some point you either want an old school instrument and can accepted it for what it is or you have to move on.
Arp and sequencer request for P5/10 is way over the top, though negative EG feature request as I suggest isn't at all. IMO it totally lends itself to having one since the envelopes are software.
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out of curiosity, what kind of sounds can you do with a negative EG? also, negative time?? I can grasp the concept of a negative level though, or is it that which you’re actually referring to?
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out of curiosity, what kind of sounds can you do with a negative EG? also, negative time?? I can grasp the concept of a negative level though, or is it that which you’re actually referring to?
It's the same as the normal filter EG on the P5/10 but the voltage is inverted.
So instead of the filter opening up on key press, it closes on key press. The timing of the envelope mod amount is the same as whatever you set the filter ADSR to.
Negative envelopes have been around since the 70's. It's a simple feature that opens up much more sonic possibility.
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That being said, adding bi-timbrality to the P-10 doesn't fit that philosophy, but the addition of it is absolutely fantastic with the reissue.
Where I respectfully disagree is that the original P-10 was bi-timbral (two manual version). https://synthmuseum.com/sequ/seqpro1001.html
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That being said, adding bi-timbrality to the P-10 doesn't fit that philosophy, but the addition of it is absolutely fantastic with the reissue.
Where I respectfully disagree is that the original P-10 was bi-timbral (two manual version). https://synthmuseum.com/sequ/seqpro1001.html
Not really .... The ORIGINAL P-10 was one keybed just like the new Rev 4 .
The two keybed version was / is "duo timbral" witch IMO isn´t "Poly" ::)
Cheers !
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That being said, adding bi-timbrality to the P-10 doesn't fit that philosophy, but the addition of it is absolutely fantastic with the reissue.
Where I respectfully disagree is that the original P-10 was bi-timbral (two manual version). https://synthmuseum.com/sequ/seqpro1001.html
Not really .... The ORIGINAL P-10 was one keybed just like the new Rev 4 .
The two keybed version was / is "duo timbral" witch IMO isn´t "Poly" ::)
Cheers !
The two keyboard version had a mode where you could stack both sounds on the same keybed. It also had a cool mode which alternated between the two engines with each note pressed.
How that isn't "poly" I have no idea.
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That being said, adding bi-timbrality to the P-10 doesn't fit that philosophy, but the addition of it is absolutely fantastic with the reissue.
Where I respectfully disagree is that the original P-10 was bi-timbral (two manual version). https://synthmuseum.com/sequ/seqpro1001.html
I didn't know that, my mistake. Though I still think adding a negative EG mod is a great idea since it would be completely non-invasive to its original UI. Anybody who wanted pure original authenticity could still use it as is.
I'm not a programmer, but I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to add, and it would add a lot to an already great synth.
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this would be a simple but huge feature add! considering the other "adds" (like voice allocation modes or custom tuning etc), this seems reasonable and would open the synth up soooo much!
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It's strange that a lot of Prophet 5/10 reissue owners seem to be requesting a lot of features that are already available on the Prophet 6 and Prophet REV 2. I saw someone on this forum asking for an arpeggiator or sequencer to be implemented....at some point you either want an old school instrument and can accepted it for what it is or you have to move on.
Oh... you again, should have guessed.
Perhaps it's because, finally, sequential gave us a sound WORTHY of the Prophet name? And it would be nice to do just a little more with it, not too much, nothing over the top or intrustive. The simplicity is one of its charms, but the tone goes FAR beyond the Prophet 6 and Rev 2 (yeah I've owned both... the Rev 2 was just meh and the P6 was kinda weak and generic sounding). Prophet 10 rev 4 - 10 voices, amazing build, 5 octaves... GREAT sound, the best ever from sequential in modern times (OB-6 is great but Rev 4s just edge on clarity and presence of sound) so.. a few additions would be nice, shame to let such a great tone 'go to waste' when a few simple additions could make it even better.
And yes, even without all the P6 has it already IS better because it actually sounds like a full-fat VCO poly synth up there with its own past vintage and others of the time. Prophet 6 doesn't so it doesn't matter how many features it has.
I personally don't need or desire negative envs, I'd much rather they spruced up the LFO section with REVERSE SAW (hold SAW button down until it flashes) and LFO SYNC... very useful and oft-used additions that would make it more well rounded, also a HI RATE LFO switch (button hold + flashing light) to give it more legs.
Many of us owned rev 2s or P6s, or even Ob-6s, some still do while also having a P10.. or P5 it's not about complaining when synths that don't even sound like a Prophet 5 have 'more' and it's a bit childish to suggest that's the reason. It's about making the best of, easily, the best sounding synth Sequential have EVER released (in P10 with PU2/Stack or just free flowing 10 voices in round robin + 2 filter choices). They already have a number of hidden key presses so a couple more wouldn't hurt, but the lack of LFO sync is a bit of a pain (means drawing in CCs in the DAW to do that work) and a Rev saw LFO makes a ton of useful sounds.
Oh and don't forget, after many of us bought the Prophet 10... they went and retrofitted the 'vintage knob' code to the OB-6 and Prophet 6 (vast improvement over slop).. so the older synths got 'something' from the rev 4s, surely it's only fair that those who paid £4k for a simpler synth get a LITTLE something from the older synths back? Without this childish baiting of our reasons why we prefer the tone of the Prophet 10 over the DCO REV2 or the P6??
Sequential, please.. if you're reading, do take some of these requests seriously... there IS room for a few minor improvements to make these stunning synths even better and their users who dropped a LOT of money on them even happier.. it's not always fun seeing the lower priced synths have some SIMPLE things that can make a big difference... like the Rev saw, LFO HI RANGE and LFO SYNC.... not asking for you to somehow jam a sequencer and some FX in there but please consider these more sensible requests.. things that would make already the best modern analog poly even better and not add ANY complexity above what's already in there!
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This would still be really good. Hold preset and press filter keytracking button to switch between + or - filter EG mod amount. I can't think of a better way. Sounds simple and intuitive to me
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I agree that both the negative EG modulation and inverted LFO saw would be great little additions without disturbing the original design ethos or going overboard. Both of those features are on the U-He Repro-5 as Tweaks, for good reason, in my opinion.
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In one of the interviews Dave specifically said that he was going to implement negative filter amount but then decided not to because he wanted it like this. To do it now after he has passed would be disrespectful and I seriously doubt the guys from sequential would ever do that.. if it was gonna have that it would. So good luck with that...
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Can you provide a source to this? I've never heard him mention this in any interview. I find it somewhat hard to believe Dave Smith would want to prohibit the Prophet 5/10 rev4 from ever having a negative filter envelope mod, especially because it would be completely non-invasive to the original experience (just like the nice Q-compensation update).
In one of the interviews Dave specifically said that he was going to implement negative filter amount but then decided not to because he wanted it like this. To do it now after he has passed would be disrespectful and I seriously doubt the guys from sequential would ever do that.. if it was gonna have that it would. So good luck with that...
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The prophet-5/10 reissues are amazing. I love mine and I love the new OS with split/stack.
Even though it is a pretty faithful reissue, I think it would be great to have the option of a negative filter envelope.
Is this possible since the envelopes are software?
Maybe the user could toggle between + and - by a button combo, something like preset + keyboard tracking button?
Just spitballing here, but I think it'd be great.
Bumping because I still think this would be a great (and totally non-invasive) feature.
-
The prophet-5/10 reissues are amazing. I love mine and I love the new OS with split/stack.
Even though it is a pretty faithful reissue, I think it would be great to have the option of a negative filter envelope.
Is this possible since the envelopes are software?
Maybe the user could toggle between + and - by a button combo, something like preset + keyboard tracking button?
Just spitballing here, but I think it'd be great.
Bumping because I still think this would be a great (and totally non-invasive) feature.
That would be great. I guess a bit of a challenge is to find an easy to access and memorizable button combo. And probably more importantly a visual feedback indicating that a given program is utilizing a negative filter envelope.
My suggestion would be to hold the filter rev button and briefly press the filter key tracking button to toggle the +/- sign of the filter envelope. As a visual feedback the filter rev LED of the currently selected filter could blink when the filter envelope modulates the cutoff negatively. In addition the filter envelope button LED in the poly mod section could blink as well when activated. (Needless to say, the envelope setting needs do be saved/recalled per program.)
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The prophet-5/10 reissues are amazing. I love mine and I love the new OS with split/stack.
Even though it is a pretty faithful reissue, I think it would be great to have the option of a negative filter envelope.
Is this possible since the envelopes are software?
Maybe the user could toggle between + and - by a button combo, something like preset + keyboard tracking button?
Just spitballing here, but I think it'd be great.
Bumping because I still think this would be a great (and totally non-invasive) feature.
That would be great. I guess a bit of a challenge is to find an easy to access and memorizable button combo. And probably more importantly a visual feedback indicating that a given program is utilizing a negative filter envelope.
My suggestion would be to hold the filter rev button and briefly press the filter key tracking button to toggle the +/- sign of the filter envelope. As a visual feedback the filter rev LED of the currently selected filter could blink when the filter envelope modulates the cutoff negatively. In addition the filter envelope button LED in the poly mod section could blink as well when activated. (Needless to say, the envelope setting needs do be saved/recalled per program.)
This isn't a bad idea, however pressing and holding the filter rev button is for resonance compensation (Hold filter rev + use 1-8 to set level of resonance compensation). Additionally, this same philosophy is used for note priority (Press and hold KEYBOARD of OSC B, then use +/- buttons to set note priority. The same philosophy is also used for setting the pitchbend range -- hold FREQ A button in wheel-mod section, +/- buttons to edit.
I think the better idea would be to stick with this philosophy, since it's a simple button combination (best to keep it as simple as possible on a synth like the prophet) -- Press and hold the filter keytracking button, then it could display + or - on the display indicating the filter envelope polarity. Adjust simply by using + and - buttons.
I didn't think about a LED blinking to indicate if a patch has a negative filter envelope enabled. This isn't a bad idea, though you could also probably tell its polarity by listening. I agree in any case that the filter polarity should be saveable/recall-able per patch.
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The prophet-5/10 reissues are amazing. I love mine and I love the new OS with split/stack.
Even though it is a pretty faithful reissue, I think it would be great to have the option of a negative filter envelope.
Is this possible since the envelopes are software?
Maybe the user could toggle between + and - by a button combo, something like preset + keyboard tracking button?
Just spitballing here, but I think it'd be great.
Bumping because I still think this would be a great (and totally non-invasive) feature.
That would be great. I guess a bit of a challenge is to find an easy to access and memorizable button combo. And probably more importantly a visual feedback indicating that a given program is utilizing a negative filter envelope.
My suggestion would be to hold the filter rev button and briefly press the filter key tracking button to toggle the +/- sign of the filter envelope. As a visual feedback the filter rev LED of the currently selected filter could blink when the filter envelope modulates the cutoff negatively. In addition the filter envelope button LED in the poly mod section could blink as well when activated. (Needless to say, the envelope setting needs do be saved/recalled per program.)
This isn't a bad idea, however pressing and holding the filter rev button is for resonance compensation (Hold filter rev + use 1-8 to set level of resonance compensation). Additionally, this same philosophy is used for note priority (Press and hold KEYBOARD of OSC B, then use +/- buttons to set note priority. The same philosophy is also used for setting the pitchbend range -- hold FREQ A button in wheel-mod section, +/- buttons to edit.
I think the better idea would be to stick with this philosophy, since it's a simple button combination (best to keep it as simple as possible on a synth like the prophet) -- Press and hold the filter keytracking button, then it could display + or - on the display indicating the filter envelope polarity. Adjust simply by using + and - buttons.
I didn't think about a LED blinking to indicate if a patch has a negative filter envelope enabled. This isn't a bad idea, though you could also probably tell its polarity by listening. I agree in any case that the filter polarity should be saveable/recall-able per patch.
Regarding the button combo I see your point. Regarding the visual feedback I think that’s kind of important (at least for me). The filter envelope depth of a given program may be subtle and not easily identifiable. Especially in a live or stressful recording situation when you plan to perform with the envelope depth it’s reinsuring to know what’s going to happen at first glance when grabbing the knob. After all, a negative filter envelope is quite a “behavioral change” compared to the original Prophet.
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The prophet-5/10 reissues are amazing. I love mine and I love the new OS with split/stack.
Even though it is a pretty faithful reissue, I think it would be great to have the option of a negative filter envelope.
Is this possible since the envelopes are software?
Maybe the user could toggle between + and - by a button combo, something like preset + keyboard tracking button?
Just spitballing here, but I think it'd be great.
Bumping because I still think this would be a great (and totally non-invasive) feature.
That would be great. I guess a bit of a challenge is to find an easy to access and memorizable button combo. And probably more importantly a visual feedback indicating that a given program is utilizing a negative filter envelope.
My suggestion would be to hold the filter rev button and briefly press the filter key tracking button to toggle the +/- sign of the filter envelope. As a visual feedback the filter rev LED of the currently selected filter could blink when the filter envelope modulates the cutoff negatively. In addition the filter envelope button LED in the poly mod section could blink as well when activated. (Needless to say, the envelope setting needs do be saved/recalled per program.)
This isn't a bad idea, however pressing and holding the filter rev button is for resonance compensation (Hold filter rev + use 1-8 to set level of resonance compensation). Additionally, this same philosophy is used for note priority (Press and hold KEYBOARD of OSC B, then use +/- buttons to set note priority. The same philosophy is also used for setting the pitchbend range -- hold FREQ A button in wheel-mod section, +/- buttons to edit.
I think the better idea would be to stick with this philosophy, since it's a simple button combination (best to keep it as simple as possible on a synth like the prophet) -- Press and hold the filter keytracking button, then it could display + or - on the display indicating the filter envelope polarity. Adjust simply by using + and - buttons.
I didn't think about a LED blinking to indicate if a patch has a negative filter envelope enabled. This isn't a bad idea, though you could also probably tell its polarity by listening. I agree in any case that the filter polarity should be saveable/recall-able per patch.
Regarding the button combo I see your point. Regarding the visual feedback I think that’s kind of important (at least for me). The filter envelope depth of a given program may be subtle and not easily identifiable. Especially in a live or stressful recording situation when you plan to perform with the envelope depth it’s reinsuring to know what’s going to happen at first glance when grabbing the knob. After all, a negative filter envelope is quite a “behavioral change” compared to the original Prophet.
I can understand. One way to get immediate visual feedback could just be pressing and holding the keyboard filter tracking button and seeing if the display shows a + or -, otherwise I'm not sure. Perhaps a blinking led could be good, or if there was a LED behind the keyboard tracking button, maybe it could either be illuminated or not, depending on the filter envelope polarity state. Maybe there could be an option in globals page 3 to enable or disable a visual feedback option for the envelope polarity state.
A negative filter envelope is a behavioral change to the original prophet 5, certainly, but to me there's no reason it shouldn't be implemented today, since the envelopes are digital. IMO, it would only enhance the sonic possibility of the prophet. I can't see any negative drawbacks whatsoever.
The OBX didn't have negative filter envelope polarity either, but it's a fantastic addition in the OBX8.