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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Pro 3 => Topic started by: xanax on October 06, 2021, 01:52:29 AM

Title: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: xanax on October 06, 2021, 01:52:29 AM
It's been confirmed by Sequential that Take5 has a digital back-end "virtual VCA". The signal path becomes digitised after the VCF. It's been rumoured that the Pro3 shares a very similar signal path design and hence I was curious if it has been confirmed ?
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: jmg8 on October 09, 2021, 01:00:10 AM
I'm sure I remember, I head or read somewhere that Sequential said that if the FX are off the signal path becomes 100% analog. So I guess the digital VCA is not on Pro 3 (but I'm not certain). They might have put it in Take 5 to make it more affordable?
Let me know if you find out.
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: sdfstudios on October 09, 2021, 11:00:02 AM
I think I remember that as well.
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: Laudus de Wire on October 10, 2021, 01:04:03 PM
On the PRO 3 specification page I found the following lines:

3 OSCILLATORS
* Two analog, voltage-controlled oscillators
* One DSP-based digital oscillator

Sounds analog to me. (except OSC3  ;) )
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: unease on October 11, 2021, 12:36:43 AM
On the PRO 3 specification page I found the following lines:

3 OSCILLATORS
* Two analog, voltage-controlled oscillators
* One DSP-based digital oscillator

Sounds analog to me. (except OSC3  ;) )

The oscillators and filters are of course analogue. The question is if there is a digital AD/DA stage at the end that everything goes through. At least, the audio from the Pro-3 goes well beyond 20kHz and I have never noticed any problems with digital clipping of the dry sound, so my guess would be that there is a completely analogue audio path. But I'm not sure about it. Since Sequential typically point this out if there is a fully analogue audio path you'd think that they would have done so also for the Pro-3, but I don't think they have?
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: jmg8 on October 11, 2021, 02:31:59 AM
Except 2 of us seem to remember that they did.
Maybe you should reach out to them and ask? If you get an answer please post it here to let us all know.
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: unease on October 11, 2021, 04:00:07 AM
Except 2 of us seem to remember that they did.
Maybe you should reach out to them and ask? If you get an answer please post it here to let us all know.

I also have a faint memory of hearing/reading that somewhere but it could also be 2:nd hand information that is not correct.
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: JayT on October 11, 2021, 04:04:12 AM
Ive sent an e-Mail to the support team and asked them if they can clarify this.
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: JayT on October 11, 2021, 10:21:57 AM
I got the following answer of Andy at Sequential:
"
In the Pro3, if the digital effects are not engaged, the analog VCO/VCF/VCA signal at the Main L/R outputs does not go through an AD/DA stage. The digital wavetable oscillator enters the signal path and is mixed with the VCOs pre-filter.
"
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: sdfstudios on October 11, 2021, 11:42:41 AM
That's exactly what I remember, so it is entirely possible to have a full analog signal path if you so chose by not using built-in effects. With effects, however, the synth still sounds darn good!
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: xanax on October 12, 2021, 01:06:13 AM
I got the following answer of Andy at Sequential:
"
In the Pro3, if the digital effects are not engaged, the analog VCO/VCF/VCA signal at the Main L/R outputs does not go through an AD/DA stage. The digital wavetable oscillator enters the signal path and is mixed with the VCOs pre-filter.
"

Thanks! I stand corrected, good to know. Kinda strange Sequential don't advertise that as they do on other synths but at least the answer is there! I'm getting VERY close on pulling the trigger now.
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: jmg8 on October 12, 2021, 01:33:38 AM
Thank you for finding out and letting us know  :)
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: cram1960 on December 01, 2021, 12:48:30 PM
Can you tell me why this matters? (not trying to troll or be a smartass, I am truly curious).
It sounds great to me so i never considered whether the signal path was analog or digital.

Thanks!
Craig
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: JayT on December 02, 2021, 04:27:54 AM
Can you tell me why this matters?
It sounds great to me

It sounds great to me too. But this also applies for e.g. Arturia Pigments.

I was looking for a clear contrast to plugins. Not because digital is bad, but to have different tool with a different color with a different way to have fun with. My decision to buy it dependent on that. It doesnt feel good to stumble upon marketing tricks. These are only my personal thought and - as you can see - not 100% rational.

After some time with the Pro 3, Im sill very happy with it and had many fun hours programming and playing it.
Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: LPF83 on December 02, 2021, 04:50:11 AM
Can you tell me why this matters?
It sounds great to me

I think it's one of those things that matters to some, and not others. 

My understanding is that there is a fundamental difference in the final signal output.  In the P6/OB-6, digital effects are converted to analog on a separate signal chain and mixed back into the dry analog signal, thus the final output is always pure analog.  If I'm understanding correctly, the Pro3 and Take5 work differently?

Based on online demos, I feel my ears do in fact detect a difference between the basic characteristic of the Pro3 and Take5 when compared to the P6/OB-6.   I do not know how much of the audible differences I hear can be attributed to the different architectures versus simply sound design choices made by the video creators.

I may also be mistaken about the Pro3 signal path differences.  I think Sequential would not label the Pro3 as pure analog because of the digital oscillator option, one way or the other, from a simple product positioning standpoint, even if the signal path is like the P6/OB6.

And none of this is to take away from the fact the Pro3 and Take5 sound good.  It's just that, to my ears, there is a different sonic characteristic.



Title: Re: Pro3 = Digital back-end ?
Post by: chysn on December 02, 2021, 08:12:48 AM
That the answer to the question "Is the Pro 3's back-end digital or analog?" is "It depends, whatever you want" is typical of the Pro 3's whole crazy vibe.