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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Take 5 => Topic started by: Quatschmacher on June 01, 2021, 06:30:41 AM

Title: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Quatschmacher on June 01, 2021, 06:30:41 AM
Saw this earlier on GS

https://uspto.report/TM/90726508
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: jok3r on June 01, 2021, 06:37:44 AM
I do not even have a guess what a "Take 5" could be...
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on June 01, 2021, 07:45:45 AM
I do not even have a guess what a "Take 5" could be...

Possibly a looper/sequencer, at least thats the first thing that jumped into my mind.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: chysn on June 01, 2021, 08:08:22 AM
Now I'm disappointed that Talkin Ball never came to fruition

https://uspto.report/TM/88374998

Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Paul Dither on June 01, 2021, 11:01:31 AM
Saw this earlier on GS

https://uspto.report/TM/90726508

Obviously the long awaited multitimbral kazoo featuring a 5 step sequencer.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on June 01, 2021, 11:25:42 AM
Seriously hope it's a dedicated sequencer.


But Dave said the next two instruments will be Analog so....I have no idea how that would work.

Surly it wouldn't be an analog synth called the Take 5.....unless it's a 5 part multitimbral monster synth.

In either case it best have a picture of Dave Brubeck on the front panel.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on June 01, 2021, 11:37:08 AM
Saw this earlier on GS

https://uspto.report/TM/90726508

Obviously the long awaited multitimbral kazoo featuring a 5 step sequencer.

Now that's just inaccurate, Paul.  It's not the kazoo that is multitimbral, but the fact that you can fit several different models in your mouth all at once, thus producing a broad and varied sonic range of layered kazoo richness.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on June 01, 2021, 12:03:19 PM
It's the REV 5 called the Prophet 5 REV 5 TAKE 5.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Paul Dither on June 01, 2021, 12:35:35 PM
a broad sonic range of layered kazoo richness

I like the sound of that.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Soundquest on June 02, 2021, 09:17:43 AM
Seriously hope it's a dedicated sequencer.


But Dave said the next two instruments will be Analog so....I have no idea how that would work.

Surly it wouldn't be an analog synth called the Take 5.....unless it's a 5 part multitimbral monster synth.

In either case it best have a picture of Dave Brubeck on the front panel.

Well, I mean PEK was only 4 voice.  I eventually added a 5th voice via polychain which made it more useable.   But yes, in this day and age just 5 voice poly would seem unlikely.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on June 02, 2021, 09:59:59 AM
Seriously hope it's a dedicated sequencer.


But Dave said the next two instruments will be Analog so....I have no idea how that would work.

Surly it wouldn't be an analog synth called the Take 5.....unless it's a 5 part multitimbral monster synth.

In either case it best have a picture of Dave Brubeck on the front panel.

Well, I mean PEK was only 4 voice.  I eventually added a 5th voice via polychain which made it more useable.   But yes, in this day and age just 5 voice poly would seem unlikely.

Unless it's 5 part multitimbral. That was my suggestion for a "Pro 4" idea. Essentially 4 AS-1 mono synths that can each have it's own sound, sequence, effect etc.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Quatschmacher on June 08, 2021, 11:38:19 PM
How about this? Perhaps itís a 5-vector morphing synth.

X-Y plane has four parts; if you add the Z axis, that gives 5. Perhaps with a controller similar to the Polybruteís Morphťe to access all five parts (as opposed to the 4-way joystick of the Prophet VS).
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on June 09, 2021, 05:13:51 AM
How about this? Perhaps itís a 5-vector morphing synth.

X-Y plane has four parts; if you add the Z axis, that gives 5. Perhaps with a controller similar to the Polybruteís Morphťe to access all five parts (as opposed to the 4-way joystick of the Prophet VS).

Possible. Paul Dither made a design with a touch pad once.

Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Wavtekt on July 02, 2021, 02:23:08 PM
Hmmm ... something to do with Dave Brubeck and rhythm ...

Sounds like a new drum machine to me.

5 different synthesis type? Subtractive + Wavetable + Physical Modelling + FM + Sample?

Or some new modal synthesis technology (modal synthesis ~ modal jazz)?

Just my speculation  :P
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on July 03, 2021, 06:52:09 AM
Hmmm ... something to do with Dave Brubeck and rhythm ...

Sounds like a new drum machine to me.

5 different synthesis type? Subtractive + Wavetable + Physical Modelling + FM + Sample?

Or some new modal synthesis technology (modal synthesis ~ modal jazz)?

Just my speculation  :P

Dave said the next two instruments are analog....so unless they are going to do a completely analog drum machine (which I think would be a misstep as I think everyone has moved on to different forms of synthesis) I can't see it happening.

Roger Linn also said he thinks Dave is done with dabbling in drum machines because of the fiasco with the Tempest.

But I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of a 5 different forms of synthesis in a drum machine, I just hope that it has multiple midi channel outputs.

Dave once teased the idea of the Prophet X sample technology being put into a drum machine but Pym said it would be an absolute nightmare to implement in terms of multitimbrality.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: tigerhill on August 20, 2021, 08:21:41 AM
Info from Abtmusic & Dutch Synthforum:

https://www.synthforum.nl/threads/3808999/

https://www.abtmusic.eu/sequential-take-5-synth/



Take 5 specs :

OSCILLATORS

Two analog VCOs per voice
Continuously variable wave shape (sine, sawtooth, variable-width pulse) per oscillator
Hard sync: oscillator 1 syncs to oscillator 2
Square wave sub-octave generator (oscillator 1) per voice
Keyboard tracking on/off for each oscillator
Front-panel FM (frequency modulation)

MIXER

Oscillator 1 amount
Oscillator 1 sub-octave amount
Oscillator 2 amount
White noise amount

LOW-PASS FILTER

Four-pole, resonant, analog low-pass filter per voice, based on Prophet 5 Rev 4 design
Filter can be driven into self-oscillation with the Resonance control
Bi-polar filter envelope amount

ENVELOPES

Two 5-stage envelope generators (ADSR + delay) with variable routing (filter, amplifier, gate)
Velocity modulation of each envelope amount
Envelopes freely assignable to multiple modulation destinations

LOW FREQUENCY OSCILLATOR

Five wave shapes: triangle, sawtooth, reverse sawtooth, square, and random (sample and hold)
Clock sync (internal or external MIDI clock)
Freely assignable to multiple modulation destinations

DIGITAL EFFECTS

One dedicated reverb with damping, pre-delay, decay and tone
One multi-effect with stereo delay, BBD Delay, tape delay, chorus, flanger, phaser, ring mod, vintage rotating speaker, distortion, high-pass filter
Dedicated Overdrive effect

VINTAGE KNOB

Recreates the characteristics of vintage synthesizers by introducing micro-fluctuations in oscillators, filter, and envelopes per voice.

AFTERTOUCH

Source: channel (mono) aftertouch with bi-polar amount
Aftertouch freely assignable to multiple modulation destinations

CLOCK

Master clock with tap tempo
BPM control and display
MIDI clock sync

ARPEGGIATOR

Up, down, up+down, random, assign modes
Syncs to MIDI clock
Re-latching arpeggiation

SEQUENCER

Polyphonic step sequencer with up to 64 steps with ties and rests

PERFORMANCE CONTROLS

Full-sized, semi-weighted, 3.5-octave premium Fatar keyboard with velocity and aftertouch
Spring-loaded pitch wheel with selectable range per program with independently adjustable upper and lower pitch wheel range transpose controls
Low-split mode creates two independent performance zones with different octave ranges
Hold switch latches held notes on
Polyphonic glide (portamento)
Unison (monophonic) mode with configurable voice count, from one to all five voices, and key modes
Factory switch: when off, the front panel is live; what you see is what you hear

PATCH MEMORY

128 user and 128 factory

IN/OUT

1 MIDI In, 1 MIDI Out, and 1 MIDI Thru port
USB port for bidirectional MIDI communication
1 Sustain/footswitch input
1 Expression pedal input
Main stereo output (2 x 1/4″ phone jack)
Headphone out (stereo 1/4″ phone jack)

POWER

IEC AC power inlet for internal power supply
Operates worldwide on voltages between 100 and 240 volts at 50 to 60 Hz; 14 watts maximum power consumption

PHYSICAL SPECS

Premium, 3.5-octave, semi-weighted Fatar keyboard
25″ L x 12.75″ W x 4.4″ H (63.5 cm x 32.4 cm x 11.2 cm)
Weight: 17 lbs (7.7 kg)
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 20, 2021, 08:54:23 AM
.......


But....


Why?
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 20, 2021, 09:36:45 AM
So it's a Prophet 6....but with one less voice and half an octave missing. Mmkay.

I do appreciate the idea of a lower tier analog poly synth from Sequential. I've been pushing for a MophoX4 successor....maybe this is it?
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 20, 2021, 10:28:22 AM
You know.....on second thought, I understand it. It's more a successor to the MophoX4 than a Poly Pro 3 or modern Prophet 5 or whatever. It's a stripped down, basic, lower tier analog poly synth.  It's more for people who are primarily playing another instrument and just want a basic analog poly synth next to them to play a few chords. Nothing elaborate or expensive.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Quatschmacher on August 20, 2021, 11:36:49 AM
Specs say Ēbased on the P5 filterĒ; I wonder if itíll have a resonance compensation option.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on August 20, 2021, 11:38:19 AM
So basically a Prophet 5 w/ small keyboard, only one filter type and smaller patch memory, but with sequencer and arp, stereo, more polymod waveshapes, and a third of the cost ($1,250 according to Matrixsynth... is wood really that expensive nowdays?).

https://www.matrixsynth.com/2021/08/new-sequential-take-5-five-voice-poly.html

Seems like an attempt to address the perception that Sequential synths cost too much.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: chysn on August 20, 2021, 11:39:19 AM
You know.....on second thought, I understand it. It's more a successor to the MophoX4 than a Poly Pro 3 or modern Prophet 5 or whatever. It's a stripped down, basic, lower tier analog poly synth.  It's more for people who are primarily playing another instrument and just want a basic analog poly synth next to them to play a few chords. Nothing elaborate or expensive.

Yeah, as a successor to the X4 it looks pretty nice. I wonder what kind of matrix lies beneath the mod source and mod destination buttons.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 20, 2021, 12:26:38 PM
So basically a Prophet 5 w/ small keyboard, only one filter type and smaller patch memory, but with sequencer and arp, stereo, more polymod waveshapes, and a third of the cost ($1,250 according to Matrixsynth... is wood really that expensive nowdays?).

https://www.matrixsynth.com/2021/08/new-sequential-take-5-five-voice-poly.html

Seems like an attempt to address the perception that Sequential synths cost too much.

Yes the cost of lumber and wood has skyrocketed during the pandemic. In the film industry a lot of set builders are struggling now because they had to increase their overhead.

Also it's more a Prophet 6 than Prophet 5, especially with the variable VCO waveshapes. If anything it's just a Prophet 6 but with less memory, one less voice, smaller keybed and more condensed format.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 20, 2021, 12:29:43 PM
You know.....on second thought, I understand it. It's more a successor to the MophoX4 than a Poly Pro 3 or modern Prophet 5 or whatever. It's a stripped down, basic, lower tier analog poly synth.  It's more for people who are primarily playing another instrument and just want a basic analog poly synth next to them to play a few chords. Nothing elaborate or expensive.

Yeah, as a successor to the X4 it looks pretty nice. I wonder what kind of matrix lies beneath the mod source and mod destination buttons.

If there is a Mod Matrix at all, it's likely incredibly smaller compared to the P12/Pro 3/PX/REV 2 etc.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: dparra on August 20, 2021, 12:48:51 PM
I'm a big fan of them deciding to go with 16 patch select buttons on the bottom. It makes live situations much easier. I love my Pro 3 to death but the way they implemented playlist mode is far from ideal (only four buttons and the knob to change lists is right next to the knob that controls which patch is mapped to that slot)
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 20, 2021, 12:58:47 PM
I'm a big fan of them deciding to go with 16 patch select buttons on the bottom. It makes live situations much easier. I love my Pro 3 to death but the way they implemented playlist mode is far from ideal (only four buttons and the knob to change lists is right next to the knob that controls which patch is mapped to that slot)

Yes! This is something that was missing for far too long in the REV 2, Prophet X, Pro 3. I do wish it was the classic Prophet 5/6/OB6 patch buttons though. Hope we see those again on a future Sequential synth.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 20, 2021, 01:00:33 PM
I will say though, I absolutely HATE the Filter cutoff knob being that size on a poly synth. For a mono synth....sure....but a poly synth? Eh looks tacky.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on August 20, 2021, 01:14:49 PM
So basically a Prophet 5 w/ small keyboard, only one filter type and smaller patch memory, but with sequencer and arp, stereo, more polymod waveshapes, and a third of the cost ($1,250 according to Matrixsynth... is wood really that expensive nowdays?).

https://www.matrixsynth.com/2021/08/new-sequential-take-5-five-voice-poly.html

Seems like an attempt to address the perception that Sequential synths cost too much.

Yes the cost of lumber and wood has skyrocketed during the pandemic. In the film industry a lot of set builders are struggling now because they had to increase their overhead.

Also it's more a Prophet 6 than Prophet 5, especially with the variable VCO waveshapes. If anything it's just a Prophet 6 but with less memory, one less voice, smaller keybed and more condensed format.

The Matrixsynth article says its a Prophet 5 Rev4 filter (I assume basically the Rev3 one), which IMO would have more influence over the sound than the other factors.  I haven't seen info on whether the VCOs are the P5 type or the P6 type, but they do sound different.  I can see it being marketed as a cheaper P6 though.. the 44 keys of course conjures images of a beefed up Mopho x4.  I'm sure positioning it in that gray area between other products was part of Dave's plan.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on August 20, 2021, 01:22:34 PM
I will say though, I absolutely HATE the Filter cutoff knob being that size on a poly synth. For a mono synth....sure....but a poly synth? Eh looks tacky.

I never liked the knobs on the Pro3 at all -- not because of the size, just the appearance.  I'm sure they're fine feel-wise, and it's not the reason I haven't bought one -- I also haven't ruled out buying a Pro3 one day.. it's just that I already have those three filter types covered on other synths.  The main reason I never went for a Pro3 was simply physical space.  I would be willing to make room for an OBX/Xa, but anything less than that I'm not sure.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 20, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
If the official Sequential video isn't a cover of this played on this synth then Sequential is missing out....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT9Eh8wNMkw
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on August 20, 2021, 01:25:06 PM
I'm a big fan of them deciding to go with 16 patch select buttons on the bottom. It makes live situations much easier. I love my Pro 3 to death but the way they implemented playlist mode is far from ideal (only four buttons and the knob to change lists is right next to the knob that controls which patch is mapped to that slot)

I'm assuming one reason they did that is to use them as double duty sequencer rest/tie buttons, but maybe not.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 20, 2021, 01:35:09 PM
So basically a Prophet 5 w/ small keyboard, only one filter type and smaller patch memory, but with sequencer and arp, stereo, more polymod waveshapes, and a third of the cost ($1,250 according to Matrixsynth... is wood really that expensive nowdays?).

https://www.matrixsynth.com/2021/08/new-sequential-take-5-five-voice-poly.html

Seems like an attempt to address the perception that Sequential synths cost too much.

Yes the cost of lumber and wood has skyrocketed during the pandemic. In the film industry a lot of set builders are struggling now because they had to increase their overhead.

Also it's more a Prophet 6 than Prophet 5, especially with the variable VCO waveshapes. If anything it's just a Prophet 6 but with less memory, one less voice, smaller keybed and more condensed format.

The Matrixsynth article says its a Prophet 5 Rev4 filter (I assume basically the Rev3 one), which IMO would have more influence over the sound than the other factors.  I haven't seen info on whether the VCOs are the P5 type or the P6 type, but they do sound different.  I can see it being marketed as a cheaper P6 though.. the 44 keys of course conjures images of a beefed up Mopho x4.  I'm sure positioning it in that gray area between other products was part of Dave's plan.

Well the P6 has variable waveshapes with the Prophet 5 they are multi-selectable so it's going to sound sonically different by nature.

I wonder if the value range of the filter though. The P5 type filter only went up to a certain value, I'm assuming this is going to have a higher range.

Also is there a different between the filter in the Prophet 5 Rev 4 and the ones used in the Prophet 6 and Prophet X? It was my understanding they are all the same P-5 based filter.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on August 20, 2021, 01:54:48 PM
So basically a Prophet 5 w/ small keyboard, only one filter type and smaller patch memory, but with sequencer and arp, stereo, more polymod waveshapes, and a third of the cost ($1,250 according to Matrixsynth... is wood really that expensive nowdays?).

https://www.matrixsynth.com/2021/08/new-sequential-take-5-five-voice-poly.html

Seems like an attempt to address the perception that Sequential synths cost too much.

Yes the cost of lumber and wood has skyrocketed during the pandemic. In the film industry a lot of set builders are struggling now because they had to increase their overhead.

Also it's more a Prophet 6 than Prophet 5, especially with the variable VCO waveshapes. If anything it's just a Prophet 6 but with less memory, one less voice, smaller keybed and more condensed format.

The Matrixsynth article says its a Prophet 5 Rev4 filter (I assume basically the Rev3 one), which IMO would have more influence over the sound than the other factors.  I haven't seen info on whether the VCOs are the P5 type or the P6 type, but they do sound different.  I can see it being marketed as a cheaper P6 though.. the 44 keys of course conjures images of a beefed up Mopho x4.  I'm sure positioning it in that gray area between other products was part of Dave's plan.

Well the P6 has variable waveshapes with the Prophet 5 they are multi-selectable so it's going to sound sonically different by nature.

I wonder if the value range of the filter though. The P5 type filter only went up to a certain value, I'm assuming this is going to have a higher range.

Also is there a different between the filter in the Prophet 5 Rev 4 and the ones used in the Prophet 6 and Prophet X? It was my understanding they are all the same P-5 based filter.

Even if you listen to just a plain saw wave, there are detectable differences in the VCO chips in the Rev4 and the P6.
The Rev4 filters are another story... switching between the rev 1/2 and the rev 3 filter are such different beasts that its like having two synths in one.  The rev 3 filter is closer in nature to the P6 filter, but they are still different.   Even just crafting the most basic of bass patches, it takes a certain amount of effort to make the Rev4 and P6 sound similar.  The videos where folks have shown the similarities were possible because they were intentionally trying to make them sound the same.  There's just something different in the filters, envelopes, parameter response etc.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on August 20, 2021, 02:14:00 PM
I wonder if the value range of the filter though. The P5 type filter only went up to a certain value, I'm assuming this is going to have a higher range.

Also, are you basing that on the Starsky Carr video?  I believe he forgot to open up the filter all the way if I recall correctly.  If I EQ both filters wide open, the Rev4 tops out at around 22.3khz+  (maybe even a little higher than the P6)..  The overall harmonic spectrum of the Rev4 looks "purer", I don't know if this accounts for the slightly harsher sound of the P6 or not.

Update:  Correction, just watched Starsky's vid again... he did explain the differences correctly, my memory might have been failing.  Basically just know the Rev4 is no less bright than the P6, it might be a tad bit brighter (well outside my hearing range though so it wont matter)
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 20, 2021, 07:29:35 PM
As a monophonic instrument, I like it; as polyphonic, not really.  But it needs wood sides.  I'd say it has potential to fill a void in the Sequential line up.  It's encouraging to see the company reconsider smaller more reasonably-priced synthesizers.  Something for the little people with thin wallets.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 20, 2021, 08:41:57 PM
I still don't get the name.

I think "Poly 5" would have been a bit better.


But Take 5? There's no picture of Dave Brubeck. It also has nothing to do with rhythm or taking a break or anything associated with that name. The hell does Take 5 mean?
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: chysn on August 20, 2021, 11:26:36 PM
I still don't get the name.

I think "Poly 5" would have been a bit better.


But Take 5? There's no picture of Dave Brubeck. It also has nothing to do with rhythm or taking a break or anything associated with that name. The hell does Take 5 mean?

Itís a common expression with the number 5 in it. It doesnít need a deep dive. ďPoly nĒ is more Korg territory.

If this had been around instead of Pro 3, I could see myself with one of these. It has a nice set of features, and Iím sure it sounds great.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Quatschmacher on August 21, 2021, 12:07:51 AM
I still don't get the name.

I think "Poly 5" would have been a bit better.


But Take 5? There's no picture of Dave Brubeck. It also has nothing to do with rhythm or taking a break or anything associated with that name. The hell does Take 5 mean?

Take 5 = the fifth take on a product (i.e. fifth version/iteration) = Prophet Rev 5. Also, taking (5).

Also alluding to being a next step from the Mopho x4.

Taking a break from using the Prophet moniker.

Dave taking a (permanent) break from  running the company.

An exhortation to take these five voices.

Iíd have liked to have taken five octaves though.

There are several interpretations which make sense.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Quatschmacher on August 21, 2021, 12:10:22 AM
As a monophonic instrument, I like it; as polyphonic, not really.  But it needs wood sides.  I'd say it has potential to fill a void in the Sequential line up.  It's encouraging to see the company reconsider smaller more reasonably-priced synthesizers.  Something for the little people with thin wallets.

Interestingly the photos from the site which posted them had ďtake 5 standardĒ in the metadata so I wonder if thereís an SE counterpart, though I doubt it, due to the position of the wheels.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Analog Prophet on August 21, 2021, 01:24:40 AM
If itís not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope Iím wrong.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: m1sterlurk on August 21, 2021, 01:57:23 AM
If itís not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope Iím wrong.

I seriously doubt this.  The Take 5 looks very similar to the Pro 3 standard.  I myself own a Pro-3 standard, and while it's not as great as my Prophet REV2 build-wise I would never call the Pro-3's build quality "budget".

A Bass Station 2 is "budget".  It's still decently built, but it is obvious that it was made to match a price point.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on August 21, 2021, 03:40:28 AM
If itís not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope Iím wrong.

I think there were other factors that led to Sequential's demise in the 80s.  First, they admittedly over-invested in "computer music" products before the market was really there, at little ahead of their time.  Then of course the onslaught of cheaper digital synths like the DX7, and back then Yamaha had a lock on the patent for FM synthesis so it wasn't easy to just spin up a new / competing product.  And the wants of buyers was different -- Dave said himself that at that time, people didn't necessarily want analog just because it was analog.  They wanted a keyboard that could emulate other instruments, so when FM synthesis and samplers came along it was hard to stay afloat.  I think times have changed now, and buyers are specifically seeking the analog sound.

I suspect to some extent, having lower priced options could be a defensive strategy against the likes of Behringer.  Sequential has a new CEO now, and to some extent the product design / pricing could be driven by strategies that only came into play with the Focusrite deal.  Diversifying the product line with premium and budget offerings seems to be something a lot of newly hired CEOs like to do.


Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Ant of 12047 on August 21, 2021, 04:25:59 AM
If itís not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope Iím wrong.

I'd suggest the Pro One was considered an "affordable" instrument when it was first in production, and that didn't quite knock Sequential out of action!

I'm thankful there's nothing about the Take 5 that calls to me in a "must have" way, but I'm equally grateful that Sequential are around at all and still conjuring one fine instrument after the next.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: chysn on August 21, 2021, 06:36:45 AM
If itís not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope Iím wrong.

I think we have to look at things on a per-product basis, though. Their budget instruments of the 80s were largely farmed out to Siel, and they were things nobody really wanted and that weren't--really--Sequential instruments. The Take 5 isn't setting off any "they're cheapening up" red flags for me. You can still get an analog polysynth for way, way less.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: MrSmith on August 21, 2021, 08:01:57 AM
Good news if they are adding some more affordable gear to their catalog, i love my P10 to bits, its worth every penny i paid in my mind but i imagine a lot of people couldnt justify such a big ticket for one synth

Wonder if they will offer a SE version?

No resonant high pass filter, i had to let go of my P6 :'( to afford the P10 and thats one of my biggest miss

Look forward to the demos

Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on August 21, 2021, 10:11:56 AM
I noticed something in the pics that makes me wonder if this is indeed fake news.

No fine tune of osc pitch?   

I suppose the pitch knobs could be doing cents, but the knob travel does not look ideal for navigating 100 cents between each semitone.  I could be wrong, but it struck me as an odd omission.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 21, 2021, 10:25:09 AM
If itís not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope Iím wrong.


Sequential made a budget product before in the MophoX4. This is simply a successor.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 21, 2021, 10:55:28 AM
Good news if they are adding some more affordable gear to their catalog, i love my P10 to bits, its worth every penny i paid in my mind but i imagine a lot of people couldnt justify such a big ticket for one synth

Wonder if they will offer a SE version?

No resonant high pass filter, i had to let go of my P6 :'( to afford the P10 and thats one of my biggest miss

Look forward to the demos


I think an SE version (Longer keybed, wooden sides etc) is a bad idea as it's then starting to eat into the Prophet 6's territory.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 21, 2021, 01:05:56 PM
If itís not fake news: Has Focusrite now started to transform Sequential products from premium instrument to budget instruments? Remember the 80s when Sequential Circuits started out with premium instrument and ended up with budget instruments before they were no more. Hope Iím wrong.

I don't believe so.  This looks back to the earlier DSI days, when the company had multiple inexpensive modules and keyboards.  It was quite a few years before they crossed the magical $3,000 line with the Prophet 12.  It's only over the last several years that DSI/Sequential has become an exclusively high-end company.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 21, 2021, 01:08:30 PM
The big question is: Will there be a module version?  I think this would be a good opportunity for Sequential to have just a couple of relatively inexpensive products, for a change.  Please, please, please.

If the existence of this product was fake news, I think Sequential would have come out by now and killed the rumor.

Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: jg666 on August 21, 2021, 02:00:34 PM
Just posting to register my interest in this topic!
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on August 21, 2021, 02:46:16 PM
The big question is: Will there be a module version?  I think this would be a good opportunity for Sequential to have just a couple of relatively inexpensive products, for a change.  Please, please, please.

If the existence of this product was fake news, I think Sequential would have come out by now and killed the rumor.

Possibly, but between the curious lack of fine tune knobs in the image, and the MSRP supposedly being $1,250, and the fact that this is the first time I've seen such a product announcement that does not appear to have originated at Sequential, I must say that as of now (and until we learn more), it has the faint musty odor of a hoax.  It may not be, but the reason the MSRP is suspect is, because it seems like offering a synth with Prophet 5 guts, with more features than the Prophet 5 would be a strange business move.  A module would then probably be $800-ish -- and then what would be someones motivation to buy a P5 desktop?  That sort of product-line cannibalization seems a bit unlikely, especially since the cost of parts has gone up post-pandemic (and we see this increase reflected in most of their current products).

Also, Friday afternoon would be great timing to launch such a hoax, since if it is one, it might be Monday morning before it gets sorted out.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 21, 2021, 02:56:26 PM
Again, I think these rumors would have been refuted by now.  But if you're correct, I'm sure we'll see a response from Sequential by Monday, at the latest.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Analog Prophet on August 21, 2021, 03:05:08 PM
I did not mean itís necessary fake news but there is a possibility as long Sequential not have confirmed especially as the picture looks computer generated, not a photo. And if one want a cost effective synth there is already a more than overloaded market of great analog synths. I guess the Take 5 will be great to many and Iím happy I can resist the card from be swiped this time.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 21, 2021, 03:35:13 PM
As much as Sequential is a serious business, still, they do tend to surprise us with their decisions.  And I mean that in a good way.  Dave has many times stated that, in designing synthesizers, he does what he wants to do, rather than what he should.  So, I think it's to be expected that Sequential may offer a synthesizer here and there that may - to the more prudent business-minded folks - seem odd, considering the synthesizer market in general.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 21, 2021, 08:28:51 PM
As much as Sequential is a serious business, still, they do tend to surprise us with their decisions.  And I mean that in a good way.  Dave has many times stated that, in designing synthesizers, he does what he wants to do, rather than what he should.  So, I think it's to be expected that Sequential may offer a synthesizer here and there that may - to the more prudent business-minded folks - seem odd, considering the synthesizer market in general.

Reissues of the P5/10 and possibly OBX aside.....I still consider this Phase 3 for Sequential....in terms of design and concepts. It seems to be going back to Phase I instruments like the MophoX4 and upgrading them and refining them. Prophet 08 became the Prophet REV2.  Pro 2 becomes Pro 3 etc etc. In some respects the Prophet X is sort of a successor to the Prophet 12...although it's a totally different beast.

As much as I think Dave does what he wants I'm sure there is still some consideration from the public appeal when it comes to products. I mean they did slap "Prophet" on the "REV2" when most people said they hated the "Rev2" name on it's own.

Also Dave references how fun it would be to do a new drum machine....but I'm sure he realizes the market is oversaturated now and after the headache of the Tempest he probably just wants to stick with synths....at least according to Roger Linn.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on August 22, 2021, 08:42:17 AM
Also is there a different between the filter in the Prophet 5 Rev 4 and the ones used in the Prophet 6 and Prophet X? It was my understanding they are all the same P-5 based filter.
The PX uses a chip called the SSI2144 that's an improved version of the SSM2044, which is a different topology than the SSM2040 used in the P5 Rev1/2. The P6 is discrete and doesn't lose low-end when resonance is brought in and is according to Dave "based" around the 2040. The Rev 4 (1/2 filter option) uses a chip called the SSI2140 which is an improved version of the original 2040. It loses low-end when resonance is brought in, but there might be a res comp on/off feature like the Pro 3 has for its Ladder. Perhaps it's permanently set to compensate to somewhat differentiate it from its classically committed Rev 4 showing.

I noticed something in the pics that makes me wonder if this is indeed fake news.

No fine tune of osc pitch?   

I suppose the pitch knobs could be doing cents, but the knob travel does not look ideal for navigating 100 cents between each semitone.  I could be wrong, but it struck me as an odd omission.
You know you could just look up the Pro 3 and see it uses the exact same function of octave and pitch setup... Same amount of throw to each side as countless other pitch knobs such as the Prologue's. It also doesn't look "computer generated" as another user suggested.

It's doubtful that this is fake, albeit it's not official till it's official. Personally I don't like the name, look or form factor, although I think it should do gangbusters from a business standpoint. My problem with the whole Focusrite acquisition is that, at least from this product, it seems to be taking the insipid cross-pollinated design approach that smacks of board committee design that a lot of bigger synth companies follow to unify their products and to cut down on design development effort. That said, it's a completely understandable approach when it comes to their more budget conscientious offerings, so long as it doesn't start to contaminate their more flagship designs.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 22, 2021, 08:50:46 AM
My problem with the whole Focusrite acquisition is that, at least from this product, it seems to be taking the insipid cross-pollinated design approach that smacks of board committee design that a lot of bigger synth companies follow to unify their products and to cut down on design development effort.

Dave Smith recently criticized the "board committee design" approach, saying that you can easily recognize it as a redundancy in a control panel, as if each member of a committee had to have one of their pet features included.  This leads to a repetition in which several parameters share common functions.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on August 22, 2021, 09:10:47 AM
Yeah, he was talking about feature overload in that interview. What I'm mainly concerned with in this particular instance is more to do with aesthetics. Take Nord for example.

Hopefully it's not a sign of things to come concerning all aspects of Sequential's philosophy moving forward post-acquisition.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 22, 2021, 09:39:48 AM
Aesthetics are definitely important.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on August 22, 2021, 10:14:33 AM
You know you could just look up the Pro 3 and see it uses the exact same function of octave and pitch setup...

That's a fair point, and to be honest I'm not sure why I didn't do that, so scratch one item from the potential hoax evidence.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Enshroud on August 23, 2021, 01:01:43 AM
Well, itís not the poly Pro3 I had hoped for and honestly, I have no need for it (as I have five sequential synths as it is) but Iíll be really glad it exists if it comes to fruition.
Sequential/DSI has needed an affordable poly synth with that amazing sequential tone and user friendly features.
We know Dave can design an affordable synth from the AS-1. It greatly overlooked because of its pioneer brand and that membrane keyboard. Even though I ended up buying a prophet 6 I still wouldnít sell my AS-1. It sounds so amazing that the amount of money I would have to sell it for just wouldnít be worth letting go of it.
If the take 5 is real Iím really happy for all the musicians who canít afford a prophet 6
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 23, 2021, 07:24:04 AM
Well, itís not the poly Pro3 I had hoped for and honestly, I have no need for it (as I have five sequential synths as it is) but Iíll be really glad it exists if it comes to fruition.
Sequential/DSI has needed an affordable poly synth with that amazing sequential tone and user friendly features.
We know Dave can design an affordable synth from the AS-1. It greatly overlooked because of its pioneer brand and that membrane keyboard. Even though I ended up buying a prophet 6 I still wouldnít sell my AS-1. It sounds so amazing that the amount of money I would have to sell it for just wouldnít be worth letting go of it.
If the take 5 is real Iím really happy for all the musicians who canít afford a prophet 6

I'd like to think of this as Sequential's Juno to their Jupiter.

It's a nice "compliment" synth for those who just want a smaller poly synth in their set up or those who's primary instrument is something other than synth (Piano, guitar etc) and they just want this on the side to play a few chords.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 23, 2021, 10:24:43 AM
Sounds fantastic

https://soundcloud.com/sequential_llc/sets/take-5-audio-demos?fbclid=IwAR1AvJ3pMEvlZAJqb598dmVwV3ikwN1e17p2dzkvsCdcMEZKNF6ZDSeE3tI
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LPF83 on August 23, 2021, 12:32:36 PM
Sounds fantastic

I think it sounds good... but it reminds me more of my Minilogue XDm than any other current synth in my collection.  It could just be the EQ choices of those clips... but its a bit more Juno than Prophet sounding.  The core tone doesn't sound anything like the Prophet 5/10 to me (even less so than my Rev2).   I wonder if the oscillators are really the same as the Rev4?  If so, I think the digital FX might be removing some of the analogue-ness of the tone?


The portability of smaller keyboards is undeniably important for some.  For $1,300 I don't think they will have any issues selling the things, and it's probably a great move against Behringer's upcoming bargain synths (Pro16/UBXa).  Just not sure if it's for me (yet).  Whatever I buy next needs to cover a base or two that my existing synths don't.


Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 23, 2021, 01:00:49 PM
This thread has been moved from the General section.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: chysn on August 24, 2021, 11:06:28 AM
I surely feel the comparison with a Juno, although some of the demos are strikingly Prophet-sounding.

An alarming bunch of these demos made me go "I want that!"
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: proteus-ix on August 24, 2021, 01:03:50 PM
Not even remotely impressed with the sound so far.  And not a fan of the new plasticity builds heís been doing.  And then thereís the nameÖ  this is going to be a hard pass for me.  Iíd rather get a Mopho x4 all day.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: LoboLives on August 25, 2021, 02:53:15 PM
Sounds fantastic
but its a bit more Juno than Prophet sounding.  The core tone doesn't sound anything like the Prophet 5/10 to me (even less so than my Rev2). 

To me that's a good thing. It's refreshing sonically as opposed to being redundant.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: DMS on August 30, 2021, 09:11:02 AM
This T5 sounds great, fat as hell! Perfect gig synth, looks to be the same keybed as the Pro2, nice touch just big enough especially with the split function. These 2130ís paired up to 2140ís are sick, welcome to the machine ! Nicely done ďagainĒ Dave & company
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: Quatschmacher on August 31, 2021, 08:40:45 AM
This T5 sounds great, fat as hell! Perfect gig synth, looks to be the same keybed as the Pro2, nice touch just big enough especially with the split function. These 2130ís paired up to 2140ís are sick, welcome to the machine ! Nicely done ďagainĒ Dave & company

Itís definitely not the same keybed as the Pro 2; that wasnít particularly good and wasnít a Fatar. The T5 has a Fatar keybed.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: jg666 on August 31, 2021, 10:10:27 AM
This T5 sounds great, fat as hell! Perfect gig synth, looks to be the same keybed as the Pro2, nice touch just big enough especially with the split function. These 2130ís paired up to 2140ís are sick, welcome to the machine ! Nicely done ďagainĒ Dave & company

Itís definitely not the same keybed as the Pro 2; that wasnít particularly good and wasnít a Fatar. The T5 has a Fatar keybed.

Thatís a relief :) I have a Pro2 and in my opinion, the keybed is mediocre at best.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: creativespiral on August 31, 2021, 10:44:54 AM
Yeah, regarding keybed feel - I would say T5 its among the best feeling that I have owned... Up there with Pro3, Rev2 and NI S61mk2.   Way better than their older Evolver and Pro2 keybeds, and better than the other synths I have owned from Behringer, Arturia, and Korg.

Note:  On Take 5, upon first setting it up, definitely go into Globals and set Velocity Sensitivity and Aftertouch Sensitivity.  From the factory, they were both set to 1 value, which would be appropriate if you are a caveman smashing the keys with a club.   I set Velocity to 4 and Aftertouch to 5, and that is perfect to me.   (Seq Team:   these should probably be the defaults from the factory / firmware, or 3,3 or 4,4)   I could see how some music shops might not adjust them for floor models, and customers trying them might not realize that velocity and aftertouch need sensitivity adjusted for the homo sapien species).   

Sequential has definitely put key playing surface among the priorities lately... although, I would really like if they always would stick with pitch and mod wheel on the left, and 44+ mono, 61+ poly.   

Also, as a side note for playing surface:  the sliders on PX and Pro3 with latching and led feedback are great... I really would like to see 1-2 of them on every instrument with a matrix.   I prefer the multi slider interface to something like Polybrute's Touche, joystick or XY pads... When I ordered PolyBrute, I was thinking I would really dig that Touche control, but turns out that its less practical/controllable than having a couple sliders.  I like the visual led feedback and latching option better.  Those sliders are so great for morphing sounds and other mod control.
Title: Re: New Sequential Patent - Take 5
Post by: DMS on September 01, 2021, 07:55:46 AM
Never had a problem with my P2 keybed. Iíll be sure to check the difference, my T5 should be here tomorrow. I was just looking at the key count.