The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Prophet Rev2 => Topic started by: ees3dc on April 11, 2021, 03:59:36 AM

Title: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: ees3dc on April 11, 2021, 03:59:36 AM
I've spent months reading reviews, watching YouTube videos and one short visit in the shop (nowhere near long enough due to Covid restrictions) deciding between Rev2 and Prologue. I'm starting from no kit having sold off everything a long time ago... I have final opted for:

Prophet Rev2 16 voice
KorgWaveState
Roland TR-8S

I do still want a Prologue but I don't have the funds for it and I had to decide. I think I'd get bored of the Prologue's lack of sound manipulation but I did like the effects on it.

Other than a Strymon Bigsky, can anyone suggest perhaps a slightly cheaper outboard effects unit for the Rev2? I'm thinking to keep with the internal phaser/flanger/chorus and use an outboard reverb.

Thanks


Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: maxter on April 11, 2021, 05:14:16 AM
First, I should say that using the internal FX of the Rev2 "sacrifices" a little bit of it's pure analog sound... which may be why some get the impression that the Prophet 08 is slightly "warmer". It's no big deal to me, as the FX add to the Rev2 as sound sculpting tools, so using the FX is to change the sound anyway. And you can always choose to bypass the FX section for any program, when desired.

Since you like the Prologue FX, one possibility could be to get a Korg NTS-1. It seems to be able to load Prologue FX plugs to its "user slots". There are plenty of third party plugs around, some of which are donationware, so you don't have to break the bank, like the ones from this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/hammondeggs49
https://hammondeggsmusic.ca/index.html

Here are some reverbs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzF_XYQW8mY

There are of course cons as well. It's quite small for instance. But being able to import user-developed FX into different slots of a multi-FX is a big pro.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: LPF83 on April 11, 2021, 06:54:15 AM
Other than a Strymon Bigsky, can anyone suggest perhaps a slightly cheaper outboard effects unit for the Rev2? I'm thinking to keep with the internal phaser/flanger/chorus and use an outboard reverb.

You might look at the Strymon BlueSky or SourceAudio Collider. 

To me, delay is often as important as reverb.  As of right now all my outboard pedals are used by the P10 -- all other synths including Rev2 are using some combination of the synth FX + DAW plug-ins which is the most cost effective and flexible solution.  Using Rev2 as an example, if I want to use the Rev2's chorus, if I plug the Rev2 in a reverb pedal I need to now think about how to add a delay in before it hits the DAW.  So for the Rev2 having both the delay and reverb on the DAW track keeps things simple and reduces cabling.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: Tugdual on April 11, 2021, 08:32:41 AM
You might consider Empress Effects Reverb and GFI System Specular Tempus, the second being Reverb & Delay.
Regarding synths, unless you’re certain you want a rev2, I would recommend that you have an eye on the Hydrasynth. Yes it is digital but it sounds real good, it is very capable for sound design, and has pretty good effects.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: SProkai on April 14, 2021, 08:46:27 AM
I bought a Prologue as my first actual synthesizer (as opposed to workstations).  Once I started getting hooked on real synthesis, the Prologue became instantly limited, so I sold it for the Rev 2.   The Prologue sounded great, but compared to the Rev 2 Mod Matrix it's really lacking IMO.  I think the effects on the Rev2 are serviceable, but I now run two Eventide H9 Maxs.  Not exactly a cheap solution, but it offers a ton of flexibility. 

You can't have enough Big Sky pedals though.  I have one and really want another, maybe two more so I don't have to keep moving it around!  Anything you run through that things sounds good.  I run it primarily on my Subsequent 37 and my modular rack.  For the Sub37 I also run the Strymon TimeLine.  Subsequent 37 + TimeLine + Big Sky = Synthesizer Heaven!  I'm sure the Rev2 would be equally blissful.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: jok3r on April 14, 2021, 10:32:22 AM
I don't want to repeat myself over and over again, but... Rev2 + Strymon Mobius + Timeline + BigSky is a dream! Not cheap, but worth it.

That's not me in the video, but this guy plays exactly this setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9b5lMUJV5A
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: maxter on April 14, 2021, 12:08:33 PM
I don't want to repeat myself over and over again, but... Rev2 + Strymon Mobius + Timeline + BigSky is a dream! Not cheap, but worth it.

Yeah, I think nearly all of us would have got those already, if money wasn't an issue... but as the OP put it "Other than a Strymon Bigsky, can anyone suggest perhaps a slightly cheaper outboard effects unit for the Rev2?" I'm guessing those 3 ain't happening anytime soon... But thanks for feeding our GAS!  ;D
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: jok3r on April 14, 2021, 01:21:24 PM
I don't want to repeat myself over and over again, but... Rev2 + Strymon Mobius + Timeline + BigSky is a dream! Not cheap, but worth it.

Yeah, I think nearly all of us would have got those already, if money wasn't an issue... but as the OP put it "Other than a Strymon Bigsky, can anyone suggest perhaps a slightly cheaper outboard effects unit for the Rev2?" I'm guessing those 3 ain't happening anytime soon... But thanks for feeding our GAS!  ;D

Oh sorry. I didn't remember the initial post. I just answered after reading the "unread" posts of this thread and the post before mine triggered me.

So the only thing I can add then is: I saved up a long time for buying them one after the other. Didn't regret it.

Sometimes the question is how fast you need to satisfy your GAS. I'm quite masochistic in this regard and try to save up for the things I really want to have instead of buying cheaper alternatives that would satisfy me just until my next visit at Thomann's. But I can perfectly understand if that is not an option.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: maxter on April 14, 2021, 02:45:43 PM
No sweat! It wasn't meant too seriously, more like with glimpse in the eye... not poking the eye  ;D

I agree fully though. I don't have many pieces of gear myself (honestly ::) ) but even if I had million$ my setup wouldn't look much different anyhow. A pedal or two perhaps, and probably the Hydra. Nothing I won't be able to afford eventually. Just as I'd never buy a fancy expensive car either, as it's merely a means for transportation, and nothing more to me (no matter what)... So not a severe case of GAS here, and I'm definitely not a "synth-purist" either... just don't need a lot of gear. I want as few pieces as possible to do as much as possible, sort of. Though I must admit to knowingly buying both the Behringr Model D and 2600 GM not because I "need" them, but wanted to experience them (for more than 20 years), and considering their prices they were hard to resist. So some GAS. But I've resisted the Strymon-urge for quite some time now (it feels like forever at least)  ;D

Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: jok3r on April 15, 2021, 03:03:58 AM
No sweat! It wasn't meant too seriously, more like with glimpse in the eye... not poking the eye  ;D

I agree fully though. I don't have many pieces of gear myself (honestly ::) ) but even if I had million$ my setup wouldn't look much different anyhow. A pedal or two perhaps, and probably the Hydra. Nothing I won't be able to afford eventually. Just as I'd never buy a fancy expensive car either, as it's merely a means for transportation, and nothing more to me (no matter what)... So not a severe case of GAS here, and I'm definitely not a "synth-purist" either... just don't need a lot of gear. I want as few pieces as possible to do as much as possible, sort of. Though I must admit to knowingly buying both the Behringr Model D and 2600 GM not because I "need" them, but wanted to experience them (for more than 20 years), and considering their prices they were hard to resist. So some GAS. But I've resisted the Strymon-urge for quite some time now (it feels like forever at least)  ;D

Oh no sweat here. ;-) I was really sorry, because my post was senseless given the OPs criterion.

Reading the gear lists of others, I would not consider me having a lot of gear, too. Some of my instruments are quite expensive, yes, but what you can see in my gear list are my achievements over the past 15 years or so. I started with my S90ES for which I worked in a local factory the whole summer holidays as a schoolboy. I saved up for my Kurzweil and Kronos (the most expensive piece) during my time as student at the university with very little income. And that was perfectly possible, because I had no other responsibilities by then. Now I earn a lot more money, but with wife and house and and and... saving up for instruments is more difficult than ever, but I still think it is worth it. I have enough gear to play every type of music with and can control my GAS this way (even if I talk about buying this and that here and there ;-) )... until I have finally saved up for a Prophet 10 or the like. Not because I "need" it, but I think it will give my setup really something special, instead of having a lot of "cheap toys". You called it "experience them"... I don't know if that matches perfectly my intention of it, but I think I know what you mean. I hope it will give me a certain connection to the instrument...
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: PChamaeleoMH on April 15, 2021, 11:10:17 AM
I have a Source Audio Ventris reverb which I find very satisfying.
I've not tried the Source Audio Collider suggested above (which includes algorithms from both the Ventris reverb and Nemesis delay), but the format is very similar (although the Ventris has two reverb DSPs for dual reverb in parallel or series, whereas the Collider has one DSP for reverb and one for delay), and I only didn't go for the Collider because I already felt as though I had delays covered (since I have a Jomox T-Resonator II and DSI Evolver). The Source Audio algorithms are very flexible and high quality, but are probably less "glamorous" than the Strymon ones; I wanted the transparency because I feel like I want to keep the character of the synths in the fore, and I felt like videos where Strymon effects were used always had that sound.
I'd certainly recommend the Ventris, and the Collider is part Ventris and part Nemesis in one box, even if it has a reduced selection of the algorithms from the dedicated reverb/delay units. They work well without computer/phone, but the apps provide access to much deeper control of parameters and setup if you want it. The Rev2's integrated delays also make it seem as though some of the delay bases are already covered, even if I find its reverb a bit "meh" (useful but not v. inspiring).

Lots of other suggestions (Zoia, OTO), but I don't want to lead you astray (or up in price) when I think you've already narrowed it down to some fine options.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on April 15, 2021, 11:13:56 AM
If you're looking for something inexpensive ($130), the Zoom MS-70CDR MultiStomp Chorus/Delay/Reverb Pedal seems like a good choice. 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MS70CDR--zoom-ms-70cdr-multistomp-chorus-delay-reverb-pedal
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: ryankm on April 22, 2021, 01:26:58 PM
My advice is dont bother with the effects unless you have something really specific you need to do with it...  Most people put to much digital reverb in their songs and it sounds like garbage.  you can here the bits and quantize away as the reverb fades.   16 voices is more than enough to fill up space.   I say use them!  That is what you are paying for.  You'll get farther if you do that.  If you really need something nice and care a lot you can save up for analog effects...   I have bbd delay from the 80's that is super warm....  it dose delay virbrato, chorus and flange...  i got it for 250!  It is a little bit of work to maintain though.   There are other units like it that have more modern features.     If you are really serious you can get a tape delay.  I had one that could do 30 second loops and had 5 different play back heads and a spring reverb tank for nice hall reverb swells.   That unit made any digital effects loop unit sound like trash.  Another trick i kike to do is find a small space and get an amplifier and fill it up with sound and saturate a mic.   That works great.

also another reason why digital effects are trash is because the resolution on them is weeny...  You can record your stuf digtaly using free software into a high resolution audacity software.  They have a whole suite of effects you can add all over to specific little parts of what ever your doing...  Korg Prolouge is no match for a desktop computer. 

i use to go and add a 96khz fractional delay to different areas of a mix.  it was really smooth.

It is a scientific fact, but higher resolutions have more bits to quantize and it all gets compressed on the fly and pushes through lines into analog.  It sounds nice.  And when you add digital effects in at the high resolutions it all gets pre processed so these other weeny digital effects units just dont have the HP and end up sounding like garbage.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: ryankm on April 22, 2021, 05:12:28 PM
(http://20210422_200653.jpg)

I want to show you this.  Itnis from China and cost me 5 dollars and another 5 to ship.   It is a 12au7 tube overdrive.  Works wonders.   Itnis a lot softer than a 12ax7 or 6n2/3 one, but I have it too.  It is great for boost a signal and adding a little bit of grit more than any digital alogrithm can do.

works on synthesizers too..   ive been using aux sends on a mixer, but you could also get 2.

that is g2...   i see there is g3 now and some other guitar stuff too that is cheap.  there isnt much out there in the way of stereo out there.   ive got an old set of leslie 60's with burnt transistor in amplifier that is not being made...   but there is a belt driven electric motor that takes a single mono signal and pans between left and right.   im going to implement it into an effect someday.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: ees3dc on April 26, 2021, 07:55:05 AM
I bought a Prologue as my first actual synthesizer (as opposed to workstations).  Once I started getting hooked on real synthesis, the Prologue became instantly limited, so I sold it for the Rev 2.   The Prologue sounded great, but compared to the Rev 2 Mod Matrix it's really lacking IMO. 

I seem to be reading that to wake up the DCOs, you use the sequencer with an interesting technique (I forget the name). The point is that you're using your mod matrix / sequencer / LFO(s) to get you back to the VCO sound - which Prologue has in the first place. TBH I'm not sure I'd be modulating lots of things to require a matrix. My ole Juno only had ne LFO. Do you miss the sound of the Prologue and its filter?
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: MPM on May 02, 2021, 01:54:50 AM
+1 for the Ventris by Source Audio
Threw my Bigsky away after getting the Ventris. Bigsky sucked the life out of the dry path. Ventris doesn't.
I also have the OTO Machines BAM. Not as versatile as the dual DSP Ventris, but it is very 70's sounding and adds some character to the Rev.2 dry thru.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: LPF83 on May 02, 2021, 04:39:19 AM
+1 for the Ventris by Source Audio
Threw my Bigsky away after getting the Ventris. Bigsky sucked the life out of the dry path. Ventris doesn't.
I also have the OTO Machines BAM. Not as versatile as the dual DSP Ventris, but it is very 70's sounding and adds some character to the Rev.2 dry thru.

A lot of the factory presets on the BigSky sound great but they can color the signal too much at times.  What I've found works well in most situations is to use some of the more basic algorithms (room, plate etc.) in sparing amounts.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: dizzy on May 02, 2021, 06:21:09 PM
If you have an ipad you can get some very nice effects for very cheap. I have eventide blackhole which cost about $10, and the audio damage plugins are on ios for very cheap too.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: maxter on May 03, 2021, 07:13:17 AM
If you have an ipad you can get some very nice effects for very cheap. I have eventide blackhole which cost about $10, and the audio damage plugins are on ios for very cheap too.

Going a little OT here, sorry, but I'm interested in how you setup your iPad with your gear, by a USB soundcard to the iPad? and if you use a PC as well, how do you route everything together? Asking because I'm trying to find the best and most stable solution to use both iPad and PC simultaneously.

Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: RonGerrist on May 03, 2021, 07:23:25 AM
If you have an ipad you can get some very nice effects for very cheap. I have eventide blackhole which cost about $10, and the audio damage plugins are on ios for very cheap too.

Going a little OT here, sorry, but I'm interested in how you setup your iPad with your gear, by a USB soundcard to the iPad? and if you use a PC as well, how do you route everything together? Asking because I'm trying to find the best and most stable solution to use both iPad and PC simultaneously.

This works ok on my mac: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/audiotoolbox/enabling_usb_audio_and_midi_for_ios
Not sure if something like this available for pc though.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: maxter on May 03, 2021, 07:39:20 AM
Thanks! But yeah, the problem is I don't use Mac, unfortunately. It seems so easy on Mac, aggregate devices just seem to "work", whereas on Windows it seems nearly impossible.

I've been thinking about getting a second audio interface as solution, and use optical toslink cables between the one connected to PC, and the one connected to iPad. One as master, the other as slave, of course. It SHOULD work imo, but then again lots of stuff should, that just DON'T, especially when it comes to Windows...  >:(

Investing in this, to see if it works, feels a bit like gambling. Maybe it'll work, maybe not. I just don't have many other alternatives left (except moving to a Mac), as I "need" to use both MIDI and audio bidirectionally between iPad and PC. So I gotta have both connected by USB anyhow, which of course is a great source for ground-loops. I figure if any audio is only connected via optical cables, where there's no ground connection, it could work.

Unfortunately, I haven't found any info about anyone connecting this way online, so I have no idea if it will actually work.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: ryankm on May 03, 2021, 07:54:46 PM
I'm not a "Mac" user, but you can get OSX and install it on any machine that way you dont have to pay for the apple logo.  I use Linux which is a UNIX based enviroment which is better for music making plus they do this while roll and release thingy that keeps you up to date with latest software....   There is a DAW availible called Ardour, but I have never done any of that studio DAW stuff where my comp is integrated with the system...   This is possible, but would require some programming on my part.   So I mainly just do a/d conversion and mixing encoding....  Audacity is simple and good well built program.  I have a firewire Roland 10 in 10 out thing and Ardour was able to use 6 of those 10 at the same time to do 24bit 192khz a/d conversions seperatly at the same time.  That thing was cheap if I ever get a comp with firewire again...

Audacity will let you go beyond hardware limitations of a/d c also...  if your into that and feel like working out the bugs.

This is where being in a UNIX based enviroment is good because you have a smoother work flow and most up to date software.  I used GIMP on Windows is not nearly as good as Linux.  The compressions were lower quality.  Linux 5 is great...  Something about vectorless programming...  dont remember exactly what they started doing in linux 4.20 kernel, but if you know what you are doing you can make a lot of stuff happen very quickly.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: dizzy on May 03, 2021, 09:01:40 PM
Going a little OT here, sorry, but I'm interested in how you setup your iPad with your gear, by a USB soundcard to the iPad? and if you use a PC as well, how do you route everything together? Asking because I'm trying to find the best and most stable solution to use both iPad and PC simultaneously.

Yeah i have a usb audio interface I use with the iPad. Any class compliant one will work, but probably will need its own power supply not power over usb. I use an app called Aum to route audio in iOS, mostly just with fx apps, and recording the dry in and processed signals. Sometimes use it for sequencing but I personally dont enjoy piano roll editing on such a small screen. I have never tried to use it with Windows.
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: maxter on May 04, 2021, 01:50:01 AM
Thanks! Yeah, I have used my audio interface and setup with iPad from time to time, mostly with AUM also. There are some apps, like the Model15 and some FX apps, that I find very special and inspiring to work with, and I prefer working with softsynths on the iPad compared to PC/mouse, more "tactile", is that the right word?

But then there's VCV rack for PC (well, there's also MiRack for iOS but I find the screen too small), that I'd also like to implement with my setup, and I prefer recording and editing on PC as well, for the same reason, bigger screens and multiple at that.

I guess I'll just have to get a second audio interface and test my "luck" with it.

Linux would probably be better, but then there's compatibility issues with some VSTs, and having to script stuff etc, which I'm not really into, I would probably have to spend more time trying to work those things out than actually creating music. I haven't looked into setting up OSX on a regular PC, but I assume it takes some crafty DIY as well, setting up.

Oh well, I guess there are "no shortcuts to the perfect sound/setup".
Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: creativespiral on May 04, 2021, 09:59:23 AM
I've had a TC Hall of Fame hooked up to my Rev2 the past couple years... it's a great quality, inexpensive stereo pedal that can add a variety of nice sounding reverbs, including a very good shimmer effect.   

I do also have Source Audio Collider, which sounds great and is very versatile... but it does distort with hotter input signals. 



Title: Re: Purchasing a Prophet Rev2, but the effects.....
Post by: dizzy on May 05, 2021, 02:51:02 PM
But then there's VCV rack for PC (well, there's also MiRack for iOS but I find the screen too small), that I'd also like to implement with my setup, and I prefer recording and editing on PC as well, for the same reason, bigger screens and multiple at that.

For sure. I have a wacom tablet which is a nice thing to use with VCV, I played with it a bit before I got some proper euro. Annoyingly it doesnt work with ipads, it wouldve been the perfect answer to the small screen for input.