The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet-5/Prophet-10 => Topic started by: LPF83 on January 16, 2021, 04:27:13 PM
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On some patches, the aftertouch is too sensitive for certain playing styles. Even at 0, it can be hard to find the sweet spot without blasting the filter wide open (when AT button is set to filter).
One possibility would be to allow decrements below 0, to negative numbers that flatten the curve (or invert the curve even). Ideally, the curve would level off at an increasingly lower total amount as the after touch global setting is set into the negative range, to the point where -7 has a barely detectable result no matter how much pressure is applied.
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On some patches, the aftertouch is too sensitive for certain playing styles. Even at 0, it can be hard to find the sweet spot without blasting the filter wide open (when AT button is set to filter).
One possibility would be to allow decrements below 0, to negative numbers that flatten the curve (or invert the curve even). Ideally, the curve would level off at an increasingly lower total amount as the after touch global setting is set into the negative range, to the point where -7 has a barely detectable result no matter how much pressure is applied.
Yes, I have this "problem" to .... Some sort of feature that can change the velocity curve would be nice.
Now the curve feels "convex" ( opens up to fast ) It would be nice to have it more "concave" with a
slower envelope , if that´s possible ?
Cheers !
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+1 from me.
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Aftertouch (and velocity) of the Prophet 5/10 is very hard to use in a more subtle way: Eight pressure curves are not enough and/or there must be a possibility to set the amount of aftertouch being applied in addition. I think it is absolutely the right decision making aftertouch available and also the Fatar keyboard offers a good quality but unfortunately the actual implementation of aftertouch is not sufficient. Unless you like sudden full blown filter blasts or hysterical vibratos.
I thought maybe it is just a matter of time to get the springs in my Prophet 10 a little bit worn out so that the aftertouch would react more gentle but this is not the case even after one month of excessive playing.
My Prophet 08 is reacting way more sensitive, also because it is possible to specify an amount. So I sometimes just have chosen an LFO intensity of 5 out of 127 to get a really organic and subtle modulation via aftertouch.
The Prophet 5/10 is a great Synth, providing aftertouch a consequent decision - but please dear Sequential team: optimize the implementation with more curves (below "0") and an amount from 0 to 127. The synth clearly deserves it so the (ambient-)players who are loving more subtle expressions.
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Fully agree - current aftertouch implementation does not really allow for expressive playing.
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I agree with this; more curves would be nice, and it is overly sensitive IMHO.
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+1 from me
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It is rather! +1
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+1
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It's now official. Most requested Sequential feature of 2021, improved aftertouch curve for the P5/10. :)
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Well ... It´s been on this "which list" for almost a year now :P
The question is ; does anyone from Sequential team read / monitor this forum ? :-\
Merry X-mas and a better new year !
Cheers !
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Well ... It´s been on this "which list" for almost a year now :P
The question is ; does anyone from Sequential team read / monitor this forum ? :-\
Merry X-mas and a better new year !
Cheers !
Sometimes. Easier to send request to support@sequential.com if you want a guarantee that it will be read.
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I would rather an "aftertouch amount" by patch instead of a new curve.
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Why not both ? ::)
Would be nice to be able to store different amount of AT per patch / sound instead of a Global setting.
Anyhow, it needs to be more usable, and not like now with almost "hysterical" modulation @ the lowest setting .... :o
Cheers !
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Yes, why not a new curve too.
But imo if no aftertouch amount by patch, aftertouch is almost useless on any synth (whatever curve they got).
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I just recently solved my aftertouch problem with retrokits smart cable rk-002. It has a firmware called Curve Mapper I uploaded to the cable. You can draw your own curves. Then I hooked up the cable to my P10 Midi In and Out. P10 to local off. Voila, the aftertouch curve I want.
I really recommend getting this smart Midi cable. There are dozens of different firmwares to do all kind of Midi-bending. I also use it as an arpeggiator.
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I just recently solved my aftertouch problem with retrokits smart cable rk-002. It has a firmware called Curve Mapper I uploaded to the cable. You can draw your own curves. Then I hooked up the cable to my P10 Midi In and Out. P10 to local off. Voila, the aftertouch curve I want.
I really recommend getting this smart Midi cable. There are dozens of different firmwares to do all kind of Midi-bending. I also use it as an arpeggiator.
The cable looks like a fine solution for many uses, but I personally want usable aftertouch/velocity curves on the instrument itself, especially since these new features were one of the selling points of the Rev 4.
Frankly after a year of owning the Prophet 10, Sequential's flagship synth, it's getting frustrating that such basic functionality has not been addressed while other features are, such as bi-timbrality, which is a nice to have but wasn't part of the original Rev 4 promised feature set. I believe the "as-sold" features should work properly before lots of new functionality is added, and if not then perhaps prioritization should receive further attention.
I love this synth, but these response curves need to be addressed without additional purchases, cabling or other workarounds including requiring me to manipulate MIDI in the DAW or other software.
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I just recently solved my aftertouch problem with retrokits smart cable rk-002. It has a firmware called Curve Mapper I uploaded to the cable. You can draw your own curves. Then I hooked up the cable to my P10 Midi In and Out. P10 to local off. Voila, the aftertouch curve I want.
I really recommend getting this smart Midi cable. There are dozens of different firmwares to do all kind of Midi-bending. I also use it as an arpeggiator.
The cable looks like a fine solution for many uses, but I personally want usable aftertouch/velocity curves on the instrument itself, especially since these new features were one of the selling points of the Rev 4.
Frankly after a year of owning the Prophet 10, Sequential's flagship synth, it's getting frustrating that such basic functionality has not been addressed while other features are, such as bi-timbrality, which is a nice to have but wasn't part of the original Rev 4 promised feature set. I believe the "as-sold" features should work properly before lots of new functionality is added, and if not then perhaps prioritization should receive further attention.
I love this synth, but these response curves need to be addressed without additional purchases, cabling or other workarounds including requiring me to manipulate MIDI in the DAW or other software.
Exactly ! I could not have said it better myself 8)
For a "flag ship" like P-10 and P-5 this issue needs to be
resolved within the unit .... No extra "gizmos" , "workarounds" or
dishing out more money on an already hefty price tag. It is not acceptable .... :o
Cheers !
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One of the things the LFE does is allow you to set mod-matrix-like settings for aftertouch and velocity, saved per patch. So you can set for example aftertouch to modulate any parameter on the synth with a -99 to + 99 amount; same with vel, mod wheel and others, and use them as multipliers to bring in one of the LFE's LFOs... Could I improve on this? For example I could include a curve function to change the response of these, rather than have just a simple linear amount. With the synth's Local switched aff, all midi goes through the LFE so I could quite easily process that controller data with different curves. Ideas welcome.
https://www.yoricktech.co.uk/
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The aftertouch bugs me, too. I don't really use it, due to the curve. I have a Yamaha CS-60, so perhaps I have unrealistic expectations when it comes to aftertouch response. I wish all synths had smooth, mechanical aftertouch instead of sensors.
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TBF this a feature which is very difficult to get right on non-custom keyboards. My Korg Kronos does not get it right either and its many AT curves are not the satisfactory solution for every patch either. So unless Sequential comes up with a per patch solution …
The more reliable solution right now is to connect an additional controller such as the Linnstrument or Expressive E’s Touché.
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TBF this a feature which is very difficult to get right on non-custom keyboards. My Korg Kronos does not get it right either and its many AT curves are not the satisfactory solution for every patch either. So unless Sequential comes up with a per patch solution …
The more reliable solution right now is to connect an additional controller such as the Linnstrument or Expressive E’s Touché.
I'm comparing the Prophet10 to my other Sequential keyboards though. I'm happy with the AT response on my P6, OB6, Rev2... its not perfect in those cases but its in line with industry norms.
The issue with the Rev4 is the curves in the software, not the keyboard. It behaves the same with a different keyboard controller (such as my KK S61, which controls AT fine on other synths).
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I can see your point. For me personally, the current “industry standard” is one of the reasons to use expression pedals or alternative controllers.
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I can see your point. For me personally, the current “industry standard” is one of the reasons to use expression pedals or alternative controllers.
I do use pedals too, it's just that some of the results that come from finger-wiggling techniques aren't as easy to achieve with a foot.
But agreed... I don't think I've ever played a keyboard where the AT felt ideal across all sounds. Its just like there's a happy medium in there somewhere that I'm used to.
More than anything, I don't understand why this particular issue hasn't been addressed yet on the Rev4. So many other features have been added, and while I'm thankful for some of those (PU2 in particular), I really don't understand why this glaring issue (and one that I feel would be easy to fix) has gone unaddressed for so long.
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Takes a lot of hand strength to play a piano softly. A lot of pianists complain that they cannot play a piano softly and blame the piano when the problem is in their hands.
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Takes a lot of hand strength to play a piano softly. A lot of pianists complain that they cannot play a piano softly and blame the piano when the problem is in their hands.
Perhaps but when their hands play softly fine on all pianos except one it becomes harder to blame their hands.
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Maybe, to compare aftertouch response, use a controller keyboard to play your synth?
I know I like playing my Pro 3 much more from my Kurzweil keyboard.
- How much of it is the software response-curve, and how much is the keybed response curve?
(And, how much is psychological?)
You decide...
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I just did a bit of a test on this...
Set your aftertouch to Filter Cutoff... very high! (Or something *very* obvious and extreme!)
Then, test your aftertouch response. (Pro 3 has total shit on/off aftertouch response... - BUT!.. The 'better' Kurzweil "response" from my K2600 [controller keyboard] is only a *little* bit better!
-- [I CAN [VERY carefully] get a bit of a "middle" aftertouch-value here on the Kurzweil, but, really, not much. - So, maybe we need to yell at Fatar?]
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...So, maybe we need to yell at Fatar?
I don't think so.
See the Moog Voyager had a rather on/off aftertouch before a Moog hardware change made it better. But it was still not easy to hold a value of about 50% aftertouch. Then came Rudi Linhard (who did also the software of the Voyager) and made another Fatar to aftertouch CV board. And now it is the best aftertouch I can think of. It is so easy to get slow sweels and to hold values in the middle.
The Fatar sends out exponentials CV that needs to be converted to linear CV. And although linear to exponential is used in many analog synth, the exponential to linear transformation is not that easy. And doing this in the digital domain is often also not working that good on other synths. While it is done well on the Nonlinear Labs C15 it is not that good on the Moog One, although they both use the very same Fatar keybed.