The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet-5/Prophet-10 => Topic started by: kris on November 02, 2020, 02:14:45 PM
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Hi friends,
I spent the evening implementing the Prophet 5 Rev4 into the KnobKraft Orm sysex librarian, which is free and opensource. As I don't have a Prophet 5 (yet), I am looking for willing individuals to give my implementation a go and see if it works with the actual device.
Instructions: Install the Orm per instructions from the website: https://github.com/christofmuc/KnobKraft-orm
Download the attached adaption file and unzip it (!) in some directory. Launch the Orm and select the setup page, find the button which says "Set user adaption dir" (at the bottom) and point it to that directory. Relaunch the Orm, and in the Setup list you should find the Prophet 5 listed.
The software allows you to load sysex files from disk (e.g. the Factory patches), and send them into the edit buffer of the synth, but also to retrieve the edit buffer or full banks from the synth to store your own patches on the computer.
If this works, I'll make it a part of all future releases!
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The device ID you put for the Prophet 10 will be wrong. The ID listed in the manual is actually for the Pro 3. Already reported.
fyi.
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The device ID you put for the Prophet 10 will be wrong. The ID listed in the manual is actually for the Pro 3. Already reported.
fyi.
Awesome, thank you! I will attach a corrected version to this answer (somehow can't modify my original post above)
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I would prefer to get a already ready to use built version. I am on macOS and I got a Prophet-10 Rev4 here.
The built version 1.7.5 is without the Prophets Rev4.
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I would prefer to get a already ready to use built version. I am on macOS and I got a Prophet-10 Rev4 here.
The built version 1.7.5 is without the Prophets Rev4.
Ok, I understand! Give me a week or so to make a new build, I'll let you know here when I'm done!
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Great work. I will try it as soon I get it working on my Mac 8)
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Great work. I will try it as soon I get it working on my Mac 8)
Can't get it working. Error : Warning - couldn't find a Python 3.7 installation. Please install using 'brew install python3'. Turning off all adaptions.
So I´ll wait for the compiled version ::)
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Ive installed it, downloaded the python script and put it in the adaption directory, but it doesnt seem to find it? I dont have an option to connect to my P10.
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Also just noticed in the log that I get the same "Warning - couldn't find a Python 3.7 installation. Please install using 'brew install python3'. Turning off all adaptions." error. I have python 3.8 not 3.7- I suppose that is the issue? I would prefer not to have multiple python 3x versions around but I will try installing 3.7 with homebrew and see if that helps...
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ok, spent some time working through this- I had installed Python via homebrew just recently and it loaded 3.8. Tried a few homebrew commands to install and switch to 3.7 without much luck, so I went to python.org and got the 3.7.9 release for Mac and manually installed with their installer package. After doing this I was able to load the p5 rev 4 adaption.
Dunno if it matters, but I did an brew uninstall python3.9 prior to installing 3.7.9 as well. @ dr. sax see if just installing the python 3.7.9 release works for you - you can find it here:
https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.7.9/python-3.7.9-macosx10.9.pkg
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ok, spent some time working through this- I had installed Python via homebrew just recently and it loaded 3.8. Tried a few homebrew commands to install and switch to 3.7 without much luck, so I went to python.org and got the 3.7.9 release for Mac and manually installed with their installer package. After doing this I was able to load the p5 rev 4 adaption.
Dunno if it matters, but I did an brew uninstall python3.9 prior to installing 3.7.9 as well. @ dr. sax see if just installing the python 3.7.9 release works for you - you can find it here:
https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.7.9/python-3.7.9-macosx10.9.pkg
You rock! Sorry for the hassle with the additional python version, but the way this works is that I run the embedded Python interpreted from within the C++ main program, and that is really strict about which version it wants. For the Windows version the installer of KnobKraft installs the correct embedded Python version alongside the executable, but as I am not a Mac expert I had no idea how to that when creating a DMG file. At the time of writing, brew install would give you 3.7. Thank you for the explanation and links!
I released version 1.8.0 of KnobKraft Orm right now, which includes quite a number of fixes and also the Prophet 5 adaptation preinstalled (the Python install is required on Mac anyway of course).
You can find it at the project's github page, or here is the direct link to the version 1.8.0 I made today:
https://github.com/christofmuc/KnobKraft-orm/releases/tag/1.8.0
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Eureka! Thanks to all involved. Got it working with my prophet 10.
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ok, spent some time working through this- I had installed Python via homebrew just recently and it loaded 3.8. Tried a few homebrew commands to install and switch to 3.7 without much luck, so I went to python.org and got the 3.7.9 release for Mac and manually installed with their installer package. After doing this I was able to load the p5 rev 4 adaption.
Dunno if it matters, but I did an brew uninstall python3.9 prior to installing 3.7.9 as well. @ dr. sax see if just installing the python 3.7.9 release works for you - you can find it here:
https://www.python.org/ftp/python/3.7.9/python-3.7.9-macosx10.9.pkg
You rock! Sorry for the hassle with the additional python version, but the way this works is that I run the embedded Python interpreted from within the C++ main program, and that is really strict about which version it wants. For the Windows version the installer of KnobKraft installs the correct embedded Python version alongside the executable, but as I am not a Mac expert I had no idea how to that when creating a DMG file. At the time of writing, brew install would give you 3.7. Thank you for the explanation and links!
I released version 1.8.0 of KnobKraft Orm right now, which includes quite a number of fixes and also the Prophet 5 adaptation preinstalled (the Python install is required on Mac anyway of course).
You can find it at the project's github page, or here is the direct link to the version 1.8.0 I made today:
https://github.com/christofmuc/KnobKraft-orm/releases/tag/1.8.0
Thanks for providing this! and definitely like the JUCE UI- very clean. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out the quirks of sound tower and finding the best way to go about patch management. I need to spend a bit more time getting my head around KnobKraft, but this appears to be the best option currently for the task of librarian. And it is free to boot!
As for patch editing- I went from mostly happy to rather irritated with Soundtower yesterday since it just seems to not get any one thing totally right, and many of the things I want to do with that app are broken enough as to be a hindrance to productivity. It may be time to start building my own damn patch editor that actually works :)
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Eureka! Thanks to all involved. Got it working with my prophet 10.
Oh, awesome, that makes my day! In case of any hiccups, let me know and I'll try to fix it!
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Thanks for providing this! and definitely like the JUCE UI- very clean. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out the quirks of sound tower and finding the best way to go about patch management. I need to spend a bit more time getting my head around KnobKraft, but this appears to be the best option currently for the task of librarian. And it is free to boot!
As for patch editing- I went from mostly happy to rather irritated with Soundtower yesterday since it just seems to not get any one thing totally right, and many of the things I want to do with that app are broken enough as to be a hindrance to productivity. It may be time to start building my own damn patch editor that actually works :)
I hear what you say - when I got my Rev2 in 2017 (was it?) I had similar experiences, and at some point in time went straight in creating my own. Making an editor with the KnobKraft software is rather easy, I have a version that fully supports my BCR2000 controller to edit a DW-8000 or Matrix 1000, the main work is to layout the editing nicely, and have some nicer controls for envelopes.
Maybe version 2.0 of KnobKraft will get editor capabilities, but currently the most asked for feature is old-school bank management. I do keep all my patches on the computer and really don't care about what's in the synth's memory, but I don't live gig and therefore don't need to arrange everything neatly upfront.
In case nobody noticed it before - I am following Adobe Lightrooms Asset Management idea, to have a database with all assets (patches) and add complex search functions and favorites to deal with the high number of items. Works great so far.
Any helping hands in extending the software of course also appreciated!
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Kris,
Thanks for doing this!
It's working with my new P5 Rev 4. Only using it to audition patches at the mo, but I like the simple interface that makes that a pleasure.
Big ask, but a Prophet X adaption would be awesome.
Stephen
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Kris,
Thanks for doing this!
It's working with my new P5 Rev 4. Only using it to audition patches at the mo, but I like the simple interface that makes that a pleasure.
Big ask, but a Prophet X adaption would be awesome.
Stephen
Hi Stephen, I just released version 1.9.0 which has a Prophet X adaptation. Would be interested to hear if that works as well, as I couldn't test it. I'll crosspost to the Prophet X subforum, as this is the Prophet 5 Rev4 thread ;-)
Here is the link: https://github.com/christofmuc/KnobKraft-orm/releases/tag/1.9.0
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Amazing! I’ll try this out tonight.
Regards
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This is working great for me on my P10 on Windows 10. Thank you very much!
If you are planning to continue to develop it, a way to reorganize the patches would be amazing. Thanks again for this great gift.
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Amazing! I’ll try this out tonight.
Regards
Sorry for the delay. My OB died a PSU death and is at the menders. Will be on to it when it returns ...
Stephen
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Sorry for the delay. My OB died a PSU death and is at the menders. Will be on to it when it returns ...
Stephen
Oh, sorry to hear! Keep fingers crossed it's not expensive! Are you on factory MIDI or Encore Kit?
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This is working great for me on my P10 on Windows 10. Thank you very much!
If you are planning to continue to develop it, a way to reorganize the patches would be amazing. Thanks again for this great gift.
Thank you! Yes, classical bank management is planned for V2.0, depending on how long this lockdown will drag on there is a change I might get to do that soon... but first there are many smaller features coming which help broaden the device base.
If all devices would be as logical and orthogonal as Sequential's, I would long be done ;-)
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Hi from munich,
I recently tried to go to the newest version of Knobkraft Orm but it seems to loose the prophet 5 rev4 adaptation. The version 1.9. does work but trying the go to version 1.11.2 doesn't work. I clue how to fix this?
Thanks in advance
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Hi from munich,
I recently tried to go to the newest version of Knobkraft Orm but it seems to loose the prophet 5 rev4 adaptation. The version 1.9. does work but trying the go to version 1.11.2 doesn't work. I clue how to fix this?
Thanks in advance
Sorry seeing this only now - most likely you're on Mac and the Python version 3.8 is missing? From 1.10.0 on, you need Python 3.8 installed instead of Python 3.7 (it should give some mystic log messages with the command on how to install Python), else the adaptation mechanism doesn't work.
Sorry for that, I haven't wrapped my head around on how Macs would do installers which bring the right version with it, on Windows this should be a no-issue.
Somewhere here should be the 3.8 download, and no, 3.9 won't work, Python is a bit peculiar about compatibility:
https://www.python.org/ftp/python/
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Sorry seeing this only now - most likely you're on Mac and the Python version 3.8 is missing? From 1.10.0 on, you need Python 3.8 installed instead of Python 3.7 (it should give some mystic log messages with the command on how to install Python), else the adaptation mechanism doesn't work.
Sorry for that, I haven't wrapped my head around on how Macs would do installers which bring the right version with it, on Windows this should be a no-issue.
Somewhere here should be the 3.8 download, and no, 3.9 won't work, Python is a bit peculiar about compatibility:
https://www.python.org/ftp/python/
Thanks for the tip. Downloaded Python 3.8 and everything is up and working again. By the way, it would be great to be able to print a list of the sounds as they are organized in the banks.
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Thanks for the tip. Downloaded Python 3.8 and everything is up and working again. By the way, it would be great to be able to print a list of the sounds as they are organized in the banks.
Thank you, glad to hear that worked! I took a note of the feature request, completely valid with the upcoming bank management feature! Keep it coming ;-)
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Thank you, glad to hear that worked! I took a note of the feature request, completely valid with the upcoming bank management feature! Keep it coming ;-)
Perhaps there might be a way to edit the patch names. At the moment only the sound tower editor seems the only way to edit the patch names
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Perhaps there might be a way to edit the patch names. At the moment only the sound tower editor seems the only way to edit the patch names
Ah, that's a bit of a hidden feature - you can change the name of the currently loaded patch, by pressing on the button that is the name of the patch (at the top of the window) :-)
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Perhaps there might be a way to edit the patch names. At the moment only the sound tower editor seems the only way to edit the patch names
Ah, that's a bit of a hidden feature - you can change the name of the currently loaded patch, by pressing on the button that is the name of the patch (at the top of the window) :-)
That´s great. 8) You made my day ;D
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Hi Kris,
I started using this over the weekend. Thanks for making this available and putting in all the effort you have.
I encountered a few bugs (windows 10).
On a 2-screen setup, if the window is moved to screen two then the two or three leftmost buttons (import from synth) become non-responsive, they don’t change shade on mouse-over as they usually do.
When importing banks, the list of imports doesn’t update until you reboot the program.
If I import a single bank and then save it as a SysEx file, it defaults to bank 1, rather than preserving the bank number from which it was taken.
Had a few visual problems with drop-down menu items being squashed.
Some suggestions for feature improvements:
Would be good if it were possible to drag and drop patches within the window so that they could be easily written back to the synth in a new location.
Would be nice to control-click to select two patches to compare, rather than having two click two in succession (it is easy to forget which patch was clicked first if some time has passed).
Numbers on the tiles would help (corresponding to the Prophet’s own numbering of 5x8 would be good). This is especially the case of one has imported a bank and all patches are labelled “basic program” - it’s hard to use the compare tool in those instances.
Adding functions for “swap”, “overwrite”, “erase” and “copy” for the tiles would be a welcome addition.
Being able to write back to the synth directly in the app would be great.
Would be nice to be able to set a custom tile layout per page. That way users could arrange in an 8x5 grid per page to match up with the way the Prophet works.
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I encountered a few bugs (windows 10).
Thank you for taking the time to write those down!. I'll carry them over to my work plan in github - a few of these are already fixed and will be in the next upcoming version, which is a bit of a bigger update as I started to work on the "lists" feature, which allows you do create lists of patches (also from multiple synths) and use drag and drop to quickly sort interesting patches that go well together for potential use in a song. This got me a bit sidetracked, with summer and all going on.
A few of these might be harded to fix as I am relying on the JUCE C++ library, and that might have a few problems with multi-screen setups :-(
On a 2-screen setup, if the window is moved to screen two then the two or three leftmost buttons (import from synth) become non-responsive, they don’t change shade on mouse-over as they usually do.
Noted. Might be hard to fix.
When importing banks, the list of imports doesn’t update until you reboot the program.
That'll be fixed with the next release!
If I import a single bank and then save it as a SysEx file, it defaults to bank 1, rather than preserving the bank number from which it was taken.
Good point! This could be synth adaptation specific, and I would expect it to keep it the original place as long as it isn't changed. This is for the Prophet 5 I presume?
Had a few visual problems with drop-down menu items being squashed.
A screenshot could help, or the specification of your resolution. The JUCE library again is struggling with multi-resolution setups, as am I :-)
Some suggestions for feature improvements:
Would be good if it were possible to drag and drop patches within the window so that they could be easily written back to the synth in a new location.
Would be nice to control-click to select two patches to compare, rather than having two click two in succession (it is easy to forget which patch was clicked first if some time has passed).
Numbers on the tiles would help (corresponding to the Prophet’s own numbering of 5x8 would be good). This is especially the case of one has imported a bank and all patches are labelled “basic program” - it’s hard to use the compare tool in those instances.
Adding functions for “swap”, “overwrite”, “erase” and “copy” for the tiles would be a welcome addition.
Being able to write back to the synth directly in the app would be great.
Would be nice to be able to set a custom tile layout per page. That way users could arrange in an 8x5 grid per page to match up with the way the Prophet works.
Very good! I will sort these functions into my lists - the next big update after the lists will be (I hope) the bank management feature, with banks being special types of lists that can be written back to the synth.
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Hi again from munich,
again I tried to go to the newest version of Knobkraft Orm for Mac but I lost the prophet 5 rev4 adaptation. The version 1.11. did work again after going the python 3.8. Any clue how to fix this?
Thanks for the great work
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Just to leave this comment here, in case people find this via search: In the KnobKraft Orm, support for most synths is implemented as a little Python script for each synth. For this, the main software needs to use a Python installation. On Windows, I can ship Python in a matching version together with my application, but for macOS, this is way more complex and I rely on the fact that there is a correct Python version already installed on the mac.
Up until KnobKraft Orm version 1.13.x, I used Python 3.8. But there are no longer installers for macOS Python 3.8 on the python.org website, because it is quite dusted, so from version KnobKraft Orm 1.14 on, the Mac requires a Python 3.10 installation. It can easily be downloaded and installed from Python.org. Always watch out for warnings and errors in the log view of the KnobKraft software, it might give you hints on what is going wrong.
To give you an idea how fun that is for a software developer - the update to Python 3.10 broke support for older Windows 7 machines, which would no longer launch the software. So for Windows, I reverted back to Python 3.8.
Yes, I know, I could have used the Lua programming language instead of Python to avoid these problems, but I do like Python ;-)
(and Dr. Sax and I were able to resolve the issues with a subsequent update, just not here in this forum).
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Sorry for the delay. My OB died a PSU death and is at the menders. Will be on to it when it returns ...
Stephen
Oh, sorry to hear! Keep fingers crossed it's not expensive! Are you on factory MIDI or Encore Kit?
She's back! It's always expensive ...
I'm on the factory kit.
Stephen