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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Sequential Prophet-6 => Topic started by: ryankm on August 04, 2020, 05:20:22 PM

Title: Prophet - 18
Post by: ryankm on August 04, 2020, 05:20:22 PM
Now I have been in the market for a new synth for awhile now as my Chroma Polaris is kind of thin and wanky.

Prophet - 6 is one of the most buitiful rich synths out there that money can buy, but it is limited.  I was excited when I saw Korg Prolouge 16, and Moog One, but both have cheezy digital sections that I don't want or need.

They need to combine 3 of these into one.  It would still be cheaper than a Moog One.  I miss the polyphony of the my old Super JX.  There are things you can do with 12+ notes rather than just six.  It is limiting.  What dose anyone have to say about this besides the Prophet 16 rev2?
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LoboLives on August 04, 2020, 10:54:03 PM
As far as analog poly synths go, I'd rather them do the Prophet 20 with the option of a second manual keybed to be a successor to the Prophet 10.


Realistically though I think for the next Sequential poly synth, I'd rather see a VCO/Wavetable architecture which would be a successor to the Prophet 12/Poly Evolver. It's the one thing missing from Sequential's current catalog.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: Quatschmacher on August 05, 2020, 12:35:37 AM
Now I have been in the market for a new synth for awhile now as my Chroma Polaris is kind of thin and wanky.

Prophet - 6 is one of the most buitiful rich synths out there that money can buy, but it is limited.  I was excited when I saw Korg Prolouge 16, and Moog One, but both have cheezy digital sections that I don't want or need.

They need to combine 3 of these into one.  It would still be cheaper than a Moog One.  I miss the polyphony of the my old Super JX.  There are things you can do with 12+ notes rather than just six.  It is limiting.  What dose anyone have to say about this besides the Prophet 16 rev2?

What ďcheesy digital sectionĒ does the Moog One have? The Eventide effects? Prophet 6ís effects are digital too.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: ryankm on August 05, 2020, 05:48:05 AM

[/quote]

What ďcheesy digital sectionĒ does the Moog One have? The Eventide effects? Prophet 6ís effects are digital too.
[/quote]

Oh I did not know that.  I haven't looked at stats in about 4 years on any DSI synth.  I thought these were for purest.

You spend all that money and on something and all you have to do to get those same effects is run it through a computer and computers are easier to update.  You'd think they could come up with some stereo effects with circuitry and use the space on the knob panel to better use.  I looked through the manual and sent a message and I am unable to the resolution of the audio for these digital effects.  It is not just reverb.  That is important to me.  Hi res audio is hard to come by and now bluetooth 5.0 can stream lossless auidio.  I have to make my own and I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on something I don't need.  I've had digital effects before some are not bad, but they are supposed to be cheap.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LPF83 on August 05, 2020, 06:53:12 AM
Now I have been in the market for a new synth for awhile now as my Chroma Polaris is kind of thin and wanky.

Prophet - 6 is one of the most buitiful rich synths out there that money can buy, but it is limited.  I was excited when I saw Korg Prolouge 16, and Moog One, but both have cheezy digital sections that I don't want or need.

They need to combine 3 of these into one.  It would still be cheaper than a Moog One.  I miss the polyphony of the my old Super JX.  There are things you can do with 12+ notes rather than just six.  It is limiting.  What dose anyone have to say about this besides the Prophet 16 rev2?

With Dave's existing VCO synths being around $500 per voice, I'm not sure a 16 voice VCO Prophet would really be cheaper than a Moog One.  I know you've already given the Rev2 consideration, but I feel this is Dave's answer to this dilemma. 

I guess my next thought depends on what kind of music you like to produce, but I enjoy rich vintage-sounding polysynths.  One of the keys to that vintage sound is that vintage synths were often limited to 6 voices or less, or 8 maximum.   Beyond that, typical chords can get crunched up and muddy due to too many voices available.  Hope I'm not offending any Moog One owners, but every video I've watched of it sounds bad to my ears.

But keep in mind you can always do a Prophet 6 keyboard + module, which gives 12 voices and keeps the price under $5k.  It also has the advantage of not having all the heat generated under one box, which in some climates goes a lot farther toward reliability and durability of the hardware than one might think.

I personally just pulled the trigger on a P6 to compliment my Rev2 and OB-6.  I was going to wait for the new synth announcement, but decided I'd rather not be an early adopter of a new product, as I prefer to buy things after a round or two of OS bug fixes and not deal with the risk of working bugs out of early manufacturing.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: Ant of 12047 on August 05, 2020, 08:20:48 AM
I'd add that the Prophet 6's digital effects are quite lovely, and the Prologue's are gorgeous. Plus, the Prologue's User Osc section is a wonderful plus. I've only downloaded a few user oscs so far (I'm not a programmer and am not likely ever to make my own, but nice to have the option!), and have been very impressed. For as "analog(ue) purist" as I've wished to be, I'm quite delighted with all the digital bits lurking within my synths, turns out. 



Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LPF83 on August 05, 2020, 11:00:39 AM
I'd add that the Prophet 6's digital effects are quite lovely, and the Prologue's are gorgeous. Plus, the Prologue's User Osc section is a wonderful plus. I've only downloaded a few user oscs so far (I'm not a programmer and am not likely ever to make my own, but nice to have the option!), and have been very impressed. For as "analog(ue) purist" as I've wished to be, I'm quite delighted with all the digital bits lurking within my synths, turns out.

I have a Minilogue XDm and while not 100% the FX are identical to the Prologue, I certainly regard them highly.  This little box plays a supplemental role in my setup, never a lead or primary pad, etc., but I will say I do find the third digital oscillator useful -- for example to add a tiny amount of bite or character to the existing VCOs without taking away from their analog nature.  The overall osc and filter is not in Sequential league, IMHO, so having this option on a synth from Dave combined with that overall Prophet sound would be amazing.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: Ant of 12047 on August 05, 2020, 11:15:57 AM
I'd add that the Prophet 6's digital effects are quite lovely, and the Prologue's are gorgeous. Plus, the Prologue's User Osc section is a wonderful plus. I've only downloaded a few user oscs so far (I'm not a programmer and am not likely ever to make my own, but nice to have the option!), and have been very impressed. For as "analog(ue) purist" as I've wished to be, I'm quite delighted with all the digital bits lurking within my synths, turns out.

I have a Minilogue XDm and while not 100% the FX are identical to the Prologue, I certainly regard them highly.  This little box plays a supplemental role in my setup, never a lead or primary pad, etc., but I will say I do find the third digital oscillator useful -- for example to add a tiny amount of bite or character to the existing VCOs without taking away from their analog nature.  The overall osc and filter is not in Sequential league, IMHO, so having this option on a synth from Dave combined with that overall Prophet sound would be amazing.

It's the User Osc biz that's charmed me with the Prologue. I don't really use the digital osc much. Hammondeggsmusic makes the User Oscs I've so far loaded in. Wonderful stuff. And he makes a great BBD effect which turns his divide down osc into a righteous string machine. My gf has the OG Minilogue, and I dig it, but I don't know the XDm. I use the Prologue as often now as I use the Prophet 6. Different sounds/vibes, but very compatible. Two classics, I'd say.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LPF83 on August 05, 2020, 12:15:44 PM
I'd add that the Prophet 6's digital effects are quite lovely, and the Prologue's are gorgeous. Plus, the Prologue's User Osc section is a wonderful plus. I've only downloaded a few user oscs so far (I'm not a programmer and am not likely ever to make my own, but nice to have the option!), and have been very impressed. For as "analog(ue) purist" as I've wished to be, I'm quite delighted with all the digital bits lurking within my synths, turns out.

I have a Minilogue XDm and while not 100% the FX are identical to the Prologue, I certainly regard them highly.  This little box plays a supplemental role in my setup, never a lead or primary pad, etc., but I will say I do find the third digital oscillator useful -- for example to add a tiny amount of bite or character to the existing VCOs without taking away from their analog nature.  The overall osc and filter is not in Sequential league, IMHO, so having this option on a synth from Dave combined with that overall Prophet sound would be amazing.

It's the User Osc biz that's charmed me with the Prologue. I don't really use the digital osc much. Hammondeggsmusic makes the User Oscs I've so far loaded in. Wonderful stuff. And he makes a great BBD effect which turns his divide down osc into a righteous string machine. My gf has the OG Minilogue, and I dig it, but I don't know the XDm. I use the Prologue as often now as I use the Prophet 6. Different sounds/vibes, but very compatible. Two classics, I'd say.

But you realize the user osc are digital, right?  Anything that's not OSC1 or OSC2 is digital.

Also, try the Pluck osc from Tim S., I use it all the time, well worth the $15 or so he asks for it.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: Ant of 12047 on August 05, 2020, 12:48:23 PM
I'd add that the Prophet 6's digital effects are quite lovely, and the Prologue's are gorgeous. Plus, the Prologue's User Osc section is a wonderful plus. I've only downloaded a few user oscs so far (I'm not a programmer and am not likely ever to make my own, but nice to have the option!), and have been very impressed. For as "analog(ue) purist" as I've wished to be, I'm quite delighted with all the digital bits lurking within my synths, turns out.

I have a Minilogue XDm and while not 100% the FX are identical to the Prologue, I certainly regard them highly.  This little box plays a supplemental role in my setup, never a lead or primary pad, etc., but I will say I do find the third digital oscillator useful -- for example to add a tiny amount of bite or character to the existing VCOs without taking away from their analog nature.  The overall osc and filter is not in Sequential league, IMHO, so having this option on a synth from Dave combined with that overall Prophet sound would be amazing.

It's the User Osc biz that's charmed me with the Prologue. I don't really use the digital osc much. Hammondeggsmusic makes the User Oscs I've so far loaded in. Wonderful stuff. And he makes a great BBD effect which turns his divide down osc into a righteous string machine. My gf has the OG Minilogue, and I dig it, but I don't know the XDm. I use the Prologue as often now as I use the Prophet 6. Different sounds/vibes, but very compatible. Two classics, I'd say.

But you realize the user osc are digital, right?  Anything that's not OSC1 or OSC2 is digital.

Also, try the Pluck osc from Tim S., I use it all the time, well worth the $15 or so he asks for it.

Yes, the User Oscs are all digital. The original post mentioned the "cheezy digital sections," and my reply speaks to the idea that the digits doing their one/zero thing are quite sexy and incredibly usable.

Is Tim S the Hammondeggs fellow? I was a very slow starter with the user oscs, as my old laptop couldn't deal. I've upgraded and can download such now, but I've been pleased enough with the few user oscs I have that I've not been driven to seek more just yet.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LPF83 on August 05, 2020, 01:15:09 PM
I'd add that the Prophet 6's digital effects are quite lovely, and the Prologue's are gorgeous. Plus, the Prologue's User Osc section is a wonderful plus. I've only downloaded a few user oscs so far (I'm not a programmer and am not likely ever to make my own, but nice to have the option!), and have been very impressed. For as "analog(ue) purist" as I've wished to be, I'm quite delighted with all the digital bits lurking within my synths, turns out.

I have a Minilogue XDm and while not 100% the FX are identical to the Prologue, I certainly regard them highly.  This little box plays a supplemental role in my setup, never a lead or primary pad, etc., but I will say I do find the third digital oscillator useful -- for example to add a tiny amount of bite or character to the existing VCOs without taking away from their analog nature.  The overall osc and filter is not in Sequential league, IMHO, so having this option on a synth from Dave combined with that overall Prophet sound would be amazing.

It's the User Osc biz that's charmed me with the Prologue. I don't really use the digital osc much. Hammondeggsmusic makes the User Oscs I've so far loaded in. Wonderful stuff. And he makes a great BBD effect which turns his divide down osc into a righteous string machine. My gf has the OG Minilogue, and I dig it, but I don't know the XDm. I use the Prologue as often now as I use the Prophet 6. Different sounds/vibes, but very compatible. Two classics, I'd say.

But you realize the user osc are digital, right?  Anything that's not OSC1 or OSC2 is digital.

Also, try the Pluck osc from Tim S., I use it all the time, well worth the $15 or so he asks for it.

Yes, the User Oscs are all digital. The original post mentioned the "cheezy digital sections," and my reply speaks to the idea that the digits doing their one/zero thing are quite sexy and incredibly usable.

Is Tim S the Hammondeggs fellow? I was a very slow starter with the user oscs, as my old laptop couldn't deal. I've upgraded and can download such now, but I've been pleased enough with the few user oscs I have that I've not been driven to seek more just yet.

Tim Shoebridge is another creator of 'Logue SDK customizations (different from Hammondeggs). Example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK1cYP6_054
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: ryankm on August 05, 2020, 03:58:00 PM
i have used digital effects, but in high resolution audio.  I use to record bass guitar through a bass amp via little built in webcam mic on my HP laptop and boost it in Audacity.  They had this fractional delay that sounded great too.  I still have those recordings and some of them are still my best.  It was able to record it at 32bit floating point 384khz resolution.

I use to have a Super JX and the added polyphony was great for synth Jazz Keys.  I want to do that again.  With the velocity sensitive where it will make the filter punchier if you hit it hard,  A quicker release, sustain and somewhat stringy synthy sound if you hold it, good basses, and exceptional ( sparkling) highs wwith a little vibrato on second DCO.  That one was great.  i could play that on any of my tracks. :)

I remember I could make it do like stardust shooting star kind of noises with a stereo tube amp I still have.  The 12 voice polyphony helped having each filter cascade down at 12 seperate points in time and different noted to create this shimmering cascade effect sound that was just beautiful.

Synth Jazz Keys!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F5KVeDvvYI0jSPMkC2nL9Aij2PULR0UV/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LoboLives on August 05, 2020, 05:12:41 PM
Now I have been in the market for a new synth for awhile now as my Chroma Polaris is kind of thin and wanky.

Prophet - 6 is one of the most buitiful rich synths out there that money can buy, but it is limited.  I was excited when I saw Korg Prolouge 16, and Moog One, but both have cheezy digital sections that I don't want or need.

They need to combine 3 of these into one.  It would still be cheaper than a Moog One.  I miss the polyphony of the my old Super JX.  There are things you can do with 12+ notes rather than just six.  It is limiting.  What dose anyone have to say about this besides the Prophet 16 rev2?

With Dave's existing VCO synths being around $500 per voice, I'm not sure a 16 voice VCO Prophet would really be cheaper than a Moog One.  I know you've already given the Rev2 consideration, but I feel this is Dave's answer to this dilemma. 

I guess my next thought depends on what kind of music you like to produce, but I enjoy rich vintage-sounding polysynths.  One of the keys to that vintage sound is that vintage synths were often limited to 6 voices or less, or 8 maximum.   Beyond that, typical chords can get crunched up and muddy due to too many voices available.  Hope I'm not offending any Moog One owners, but every video I've watched of it sounds bad to my ears.

But keep in mind you can always do a Prophet 6 keyboard + module, which gives 12 voices and keeps the price under $5k.  It also has the advantage of not having all the heat generated under one box, which in some climates goes a lot farther toward reliability and durability of the hardware than one might think.

I personally just pulled the trigger on a P6 to compliment my Rev2 and OB-6.  I was going to wait for the new synth announcement, but decided I'd rather not be an early adopter of a new product, as I prefer to buy things after a round or two of OS bug fixes and not deal with the risk of working bugs out of early manufacturing.

Agree 100% on the "too many voices" aspect. I find it's quite difficult to get it to sit properly in a mix, especially if you have multiple synths running at once.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LPF83 on August 05, 2020, 05:47:01 PM
Agree 100% on the "too many voices" aspect. I find it's quite difficult to get it to sit properly in a mix, especially if you have multiple synths running at once.

This is one reason I decided not to get a second OB-6, as much as I love my keyboard.  It is good for having that one killer sound, bass or lead or just something unworldly that only that lovely Oberheim filter can do.  But the same warmth and thickness that sometimes makes me glad it only has 6 voices.  I think 12 or 16 voices, all with the natural "slop" that VCOs tend to have, can be hard to make work with complex chords with long releases.  This I think is why the slightly more precise sound of DCOs is better for applications needing higher polyphony.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on August 05, 2020, 06:46:22 PM
I think 12 or 16 voices, all with the natural "slop" that VCOs tend to have, can be hard to make work with complex chords with long releases.  This I think is why the slightly more precise sound of DCOs is better for applications needing higher polyphony.

Good point.  The DCO seems to be a happy compromise between thickness and thinness of tone for excessively  polyphonic music. 
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: ryankm on August 06, 2020, 06:24:46 AM
I think 12 or 16 voices, all with the natural "slop" that VCOs tend to have, can be hard to make work with complex chords with long releases.  This I think is why the slightly more precise sound of DCOs is better for applications needing higher polyphony.

Good point.  The DCO seems to be a happy compromise between thickness and thinness of tone for excessively  polyphonic music.

You can tune VCO's pretty sharply too.    All i have is a Chroma Polaris and that is known for being thin, but sounds pretty rich when compared with 95% of what is out there.  I'm having difficulties with it right now though so...

How would y'all compare the DSI v. Roland DCO's in terms of bass?  Can the DSI DCO /VCF's punch through a mix the way Roland can?
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LPF83 on August 06, 2020, 02:02:21 PM
You can tune VCO's pretty sharply too.    All i have is a Chroma Polaris and that is known for being thin, but sounds pretty rich when compared with 95% of what is out there.  I'm having difficulties with it right now though so...

How would y'all compare the DSI v. Roland DCO's in terms of bass?  Can the DSI DCO /VCF's punch through a mix the way Roland can?

I don't have any Roland synths currently but owned a Juno 106 back in the day which had GREAT bass from DCOs.   In some ways the Rev2 feels like two Junos that can be stacked or split.  You can certainly get a great bass out of the DCOs of the Rev2.   There is something to my ear about that low-end warmth that comes so easily out of the OB-6 and Prophet 6 though.   I only got my Prophet 6 today and I'm still going through the presets.  Before I unboxed it, I thought the OB-6 had the most inspiring bass I've heard, but now I think the P6 might actually have it beat.

Just remember with the Rev2 you have so many modulation options available that just carving a bass sound out of the init patch on one layer is not going to showcase what it can do.  I haven't even tried to see how fat of a bass I can make out of the two layers with some modulation tricks.  Maybe after I'm past the honeymoon phase with the P6.

Does Roland currently make a DCO synth?  I always thought the JD-XA was VCO, but admit to not keeping up with their product line.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LoboLives on August 06, 2020, 02:38:34 PM
You can tune VCO's pretty sharply too.    All i have is a Chroma Polaris and that is known for being thin, but sounds pretty rich when compared with 95% of what is out there.  I'm having difficulties with it right now though so...

How would y'all compare the DSI v. Roland DCO's in terms of bass?  Can the DSI DCO /VCF's punch through a mix the way Roland can?

I don't have any Roland synths currently but owned a Juno 106 back in the day which had GREAT bass from DCOs.   In some ways the Rev2 feels like two Junos that can be stacked or split.  You can certainly get a great bass out of the DCOs of the Rev2.   There is something to my ear about that low-end warmth that comes so easily out of the OB-6 and Prophet 6 though.   I only got my Prophet 6 today and I'm still going through the presets.  Before I unboxed it, I thought the OB-6 had the most inspiring bass I've heard, but now I think the P6 might actually have it beat.

Just remember with the Rev2 you have so many modulation options available that just carving a bass sound out of the init patch on one layer is not going to showcase what it can do.  I haven't even tried to see how fat of a bass I can make out of the two layers with some modulation tricks.  Maybe after I'm past the honeymoon phase with the P6.

Does Roland currently make a DCO synth?  I always thought the JD-XA was VCO, but admit to not keeping up with their product line.

Almost positive the JDXa has DCOs
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: ryankm on August 06, 2020, 03:04:42 PM
You can tune VCO's pretty sharply too.    All i have is a Chroma Polaris and that is known for being thin, but sounds pretty rich when compared with 95% of what is out there.  I'm having difficulties with it right now though so...

How would y'all compare the DSI v. Roland DCO's in terms of bass?  Can the DSI DCO /VCF's punch through a mix the way Roland can?

I don't have any Roland synths currently but owned a Juno 106 back in the day which had GREAT bass from DCOs.   In some ways the Rev2 feels like two Junos that can be stacked or split.  You can certainly get a great bass out of the DCOs of the Rev2.   There is something to my ear about that low-end warmth that comes so easily out of the OB-6 and Prophet 6 though.   I only got my Prophet 6 today and I'm still going through the presets.  Before I unboxed it, I thought the OB-6 had the most inspiring bass I've heard, but now I think the P6 might actually have it beat.

Just remember with the Rev2 you have so many modulation options available that just carving a bass sound out of the init patch on one layer is not going to showcase what it can do.  I haven't even tried to see how fat of a bass I can make out of the two layers with some modulation tricks.  Maybe after I'm past the honeymoon phase with the P6.

Does Roland currently make a DCO synth?  I always thought the JD-XA was VCO, but admit to not keeping up with their product line.

No they don't.  I had a Juno 106 and a Super JX and both were great.  I got the Super JX, which is an amazing synth; for only 300 dollars.  I got the PG 800 and had a great time with it.  It had stereo outputs and 12 voices.  I was always splitting the keyboard to do a analog bass wuith left hand and chorusing stereo string saw pad with my right.  Unfortunatly I did to much aderal installing Vecoven Mod in and slopped solder and crossed some wires and couldn't ever get the thing to power on again and the Juno I sold.

I think the JDXA is on of those hybrid synths with 100% digital oscillator section.

From memory of having DCO Roland synths...  They are silky smooth warm precise instruments.  And that digital precision on the oscillators can make them do some pretty crazy stuff.  VCO's just sound better in my opinion.  Warmer deeper bases.  Brighter sounding.  Like pure electricity.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LPF83 on August 06, 2020, 03:19:00 PM
You can tune VCO's pretty sharply too.    All i have is a Chroma Polaris and that is known for being thin, but sounds pretty rich when compared with 95% of what is out there.  I'm having difficulties with it right now though so...

How would y'all compare the DSI v. Roland DCO's in terms of bass?  Can the DSI DCO /VCF's punch through a mix the way Roland can?

I don't have any Roland synths currently but owned a Juno 106 back in the day which had GREAT bass from DCOs.   In some ways the Rev2 feels like two Junos that can be stacked or split.  You can certainly get a great bass out of the DCOs of the Rev2.   There is something to my ear about that low-end warmth that comes so easily out of the OB-6 and Prophet 6 though.   I only got my Prophet 6 today and I'm still going through the presets.  Before I unboxed it, I thought the OB-6 had the most inspiring bass I've heard, but now I think the P6 might actually have it beat.

Just remember with the Rev2 you have so many modulation options available that just carving a bass sound out of the init patch on one layer is not going to showcase what it can do.  I haven't even tried to see how fat of a bass I can make out of the two layers with some modulation tricks.  Maybe after I'm past the honeymoon phase with the P6.

Does Roland currently make a DCO synth?  I always thought the JD-XA was VCO, but admit to not keeping up with their product line.

Almost positive the JDXa has DCOs

I believe you're right about that after doing a bit of reading.  The price point (for only 4 DCO voices, even with the additional digital voices) is a bit inappropriate  IMHO, and I guess that's what had me fooled.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LPF83 on August 06, 2020, 03:44:58 PM
You can tune VCO's pretty sharply too.    All i have is a Chroma Polaris and that is known for being thin, but sounds pretty rich when compared with 95% of what is out there.  I'm having difficulties with it right now though so...

How would y'all compare the DSI v. Roland DCO's in terms of bass?  Can the DSI DCO /VCF's punch through a mix the way Roland can?

I don't have any Roland synths currently but owned a Juno 106 back in the day which had GREAT bass from DCOs.   In some ways the Rev2 feels like two Junos that can be stacked or split.  You can certainly get a great bass out of the DCOs of the Rev2.   There is something to my ear about that low-end warmth that comes so easily out of the OB-6 and Prophet 6 though.   I only got my Prophet 6 today and I'm still going through the presets.  Before I unboxed it, I thought the OB-6 had the most inspiring bass I've heard, but now I think the P6 might actually have it beat.

Just remember with the Rev2 you have so many modulation options available that just carving a bass sound out of the init patch on one layer is not going to showcase what it can do.  I haven't even tried to see how fat of a bass I can make out of the two layers with some modulation tricks.  Maybe after I'm past the honeymoon phase with the P6.

Does Roland currently make a DCO synth?  I always thought the JD-XA was VCO, but admit to not keeping up with their product line.

No they don't.  I had a Juno 106 and a Super JX and both were great.  I got the Super JX, which is an amazing synth; for only 300 dollars.  I got the PG 800 and had a great time with it.  It had stereo outputs and 12 voices.  I was always splitting the keyboard to do a analog bass wuith left hand and chorusing stereo string saw pad with my right.  Unfortunatly I did to much aderal installing Vecoven Mod in and slopped solder and crossed some wires and couldn't ever get the thing to power on again and the Juno I sold.

I think the JDXA is on of those hybrid synths with 100% digital oscillator section.

From memory of having DCO Roland synths...  They are silky smooth warm precise instruments.  And that digital precision on the oscillators can make them do some pretty crazy stuff.  VCO's just sound better in my opinion.  Warmer deeper bases.  Brighter sounding.  Like pure electricity.

Roland seems a little dodgy on the specs they publish on their modern synths, but from what I can tell, 4 voices are DCO and 64 are digital.  I'm sure the thing sounds good enough, a lot of times its the filter that makes the biggest difference, but to be honest there isn't a Roland product that I am gear lusting after at the moment.  If anything I'd like to get another Juno 106, but I sold my last one for $375 back in the early 90s (going rate at the time), and they are going for a lot more than that these days :).  I'd have one again in a heartbeat if I wasn't worried about service issues (I am not interested in soaking the voice chips in acetone to restore them, resoldering the whole board etc).

You're right about VCOs and bass -- there's nothing like it.  Moog synths do a great bass but I prefer the tones of the Prophet and Obie in this category.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: ryankm on August 06, 2020, 06:32:50 PM
You can tune VCO's pretty sharply too.    All i have is a Chroma Polaris and that is known for being thin, but sounds pretty rich when compared with 95% of what is out there.  I'm having difficulties with it right now though so...

How would y'all compare the DSI v. Roland DCO's in terms of bass?  Can the DSI DCO /VCF's punch through a mix the way Roland can?

I don't have any Roland synths currently but owned a Juno 106 back in the day which had GREAT bass from DCOs.   In some ways the Rev2 feels like two Junos that can be stacked or split.  You can certainly get a great bass out of the DCOs of the Rev2.   There is something to my ear about that low-end warmth that comes so easily out of the OB-6 and Prophet 6 though.   I only got my Prophet 6 today and I'm still going through the presets.  Before I unboxed it, I thought the OB-6 had the most inspiring bass I've heard, but now I think the P6 might actually have it beat.

Just remember with the Rev2 you have so many modulation options available that just carving a bass sound out of the init patch on one layer is not going to showcase what it can do.  I haven't even tried to see how fat of a bass I can make out of the two layers with some modulation tricks.  Maybe after I'm past the honeymoon phase with the P6.

Does Roland currently make a DCO synth?  I always thought the JD-XA was VCO, but admit to not keeping up with their product line.

No they don't.  I had a Juno 106 and a Super JX and both were great.  I got the Super JX, which is an amazing synth; for only 300 dollars.  I got the PG 800 and had a great time with it.  It had stereo outputs and 12 voices.  I was always splitting the keyboard to do a analog bass wuith left hand and chorusing stereo string saw pad with my right.  Unfortunatly I did to much aderal installing Vecoven Mod in and slopped solder and crossed some wires and couldn't ever get the thing to power on again and the Juno I sold.

I think the JDXA is on of those hybrid synths with 100% digital oscillator section.

From memory of having DCO Roland synths...  They are silky smooth warm precise instruments.  And that digital precision on the oscillators can make them do some pretty crazy stuff.  VCO's just sound better in my opinion.  Warmer deeper bases.  Brighter sounding.  Like pure electricity.

Roland seems a little dodgy on the specs they publish on their modern synths, but from what I can tell, 4 voices are DCO and 64 are digital.  I'm sure the thing sounds good enough, a lot of times its the filter that makes the biggest difference, but to be honest there isn't a Roland product that I am gear lusting after at the moment.  If anything I'd like to get another Juno 106, but I sold my last one for $375 back in the early 90s (going rate at the time), and they are going for a lot more than that these days :).  I'd have one again in a heartbeat if I wasn't worried about service issues (I am not interested in soaking the voice chips in acetone to restore them, resoldering the whole board etc).

You're right about VCOs and bass -- there's nothing like it.  Moog synths do a great bass but I prefer the tones of the Prophet and Obie in this category.

Acetone?  Maybe that is what my Chroma Polaris needs.  I am having issues with envelope volume release.  The time counts down and the volume just ends instead of fades plus some of the functions barely work.  Like the modulation routing options...

https://youtu.be/XBqUAC2Cp5w

I watched the gear 4 music demo for Prophet 16 and it sounds great!  Korg Prouloouge is also interesting.  Although I don't need the digital FM osc... Those aren't musically interesting as much and more for special effects on movies I would say.  The Moog turns me off with that digital effects section;  For a 8-9,000 dollar synth.  It is a waste of time and space for me now that I have Bluetooth 5.0 streaming lossless 24bit 384,000hz audio.  I have 24bit 48,000hz recording and even 16 bit.  Although that they are crisp and HD, not nearly as clear and smooth as 384khz; so to justify spending that kind of money doesn't make sense to me.

I almost bought one 6 years ago from ebay for about 900 dollars a Prophet '08, but the seller flaked on me.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LoboLives on August 06, 2020, 08:10:50 PM
What if I told you....you can turn off the digital effects section and you would have a pure analog signal path?
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: ryankm on August 06, 2020, 08:19:12 PM
What if I told you....you can turn off the digital effects section and you would have a pure analog signal path?

For the DSI yes, but for the Moog no.  For 8000 dollars it is to much money.  IT takes up space on the circuit and in the OS.  I would rather have them omit it for maintenance reasons.

Question:  These digital effects.  Are they able to go on top of the analog signal path with out hindrance and mix it together?
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: LoboLives on August 07, 2020, 01:44:26 PM
What if I told you....you can turn off the digital effects section and you would have a pure analog signal path?

For the DSI yes, but for the Moog no.  For 8000 dollars it is to much money.  IT takes up space on the circuit and in the OS.  I would rather have them omit it for maintenance reasons.

Question:  These digital effects.  Are they able to go on top of the analog signal path with out hindrance and mix it together?

Iíve never had an issue. Generally a lot of older synth players played through Eventide orLexicon Effects units and those were digital as well. The effects on the Arturia MatrixBrute are Analog but personally I donít find they are as nice sounding as the effects on the Sequential stuff nor the Moog One stuff.

Unless you are recording to reel to reel tape and editing on tape as well then fetishizing over a pure analog signal path is pointless. Itís going to go into you DAW and end up digital anyway.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: jok3r on August 07, 2020, 03:26:04 PM
Unless you are recording to reel to reel tape and editing on tape as well then fetishizing over a pure analog signal path is pointless. Itís going to go into you DAW and end up digital anyway.

Thanks for speaking out, what I'm thinking everytime I read those discussions. I use the holy digital Strymon Trinity (mobius, timeline, bigsky) and they are very fine pieces of gear that sound absolutely gorgeous. Even if I would record to tape, it would be these effects that round up my sound.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: ryankm on August 07, 2020, 03:43:16 PM
What if I told you....you can turn off the digital effects section and you would have a pure analog signal path?

For the DSI yes, but for the Moog no.  For 8000 dollars it is to much money.  IT takes up space on the circuit and in the OS.  I would rather have them omit it for maintenance reasons.

Question:  These digital effects.  Are they able to go on top of the analog signal path with out hindrance and mix it together?

Iíve never had an issue. Generally a lot of older synth players played through Eventide orLexicon Effects units and those were digital as well. The effects on the Arturia MatrixBrute are Analog but personally I donít find they are as nice sounding as the effects on the Sequential stuff nor the Moog One stuff.

Unless you are recording to reel to reel tape and editing on tape as well then fetishizing over a pure analog signal path is pointless. Itís going to go into you DAW and end up digital anyway.

I almost got a reel to reel going, but even that 4 track Yamaha Cassette mixer recording sounds better than alot of digital recordings to me.  It's not anything special, but I have the ability to record at 32 bit floating point ( same as 24 bit audio, but with 8bit of buffer) 384khz.  That is super smooth.  I had a Lexicon delay / reverb thing from the 90's.  It wasn't bad.  It could do things my analog delay couldn't do, but also didn't sound as good.  I don't need tape.  Just plug the mixer straight to the line in and record it at max resolution.  I can take that with me anywhere now and play it back with my cell phone computer.  24 bit 192khz almost sounds exactly the same; I tryed it.  I played a note and then I played it back.  That is nearly identical.  I haven't done to many tests with the 384khz yet, but it is a miracle I use to record at those levels becasue now I can play them back.  Bit depth is frequency range and hz is the resolution....  24 bit can hurt your ears so that is why cd's are 16 bit.  There is stuff i do with VCO's that crack when compressed to 16 bit digitaly, so 24 bit is needed.  and 384khz is resolution like dpi to a monitor.  It is how smooth the playback is going to sound.  Like it will make 384,000 reads/writes in one second of the full 24 bit digital spectrum versuses 48,000.  That is why it sounds so much better.

Don't need tape except it's good for compression that way you can get the VCO sound that we all love with out the pain of 24bit audio and the cracks and distortion of 16bit.
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: acemonvw on August 14, 2020, 08:10:22 PM
Quote
Acetone?  Maybe that is what my Chroma Polaris needs.  I am having issues with envelope volume release.  The time counts down and the volume just ends instead of fades plus some of the functions barely work.  Like the modulation routing options...

Wait -  can you explain what's going on with your Polaris? I too have a polaris and if you're referring to envelope volume release perhaps cutting out abruptly, then we need to talk about calibration of the unit, which is well described in the manual. The polaris is extremely well thought out and has very good documentation, even if the manual is very thick and it's perhaps convoluted.

This makes me think that there's a lot going on that you might not be aware about:

1) Do you have a new membrane panel on the top or the old one? We can figure that out if you don't know.

2) Do you hear clicking when you press buttons? This can be turned on/off as desired.

3) What's wrong with the modulation routing? Could be something to do with a bad membrane panel which is pretty cheap to replace - I would totally do that if you haven't yet Paul DeRocco, who worked on the Polaris (I believe) made new membranes that do not suffer like the old ones.

...now - I'm pretty sure you said you thought the Polaris sounds "thin" - obviously it's subjective, but thin is probably one of the last things I'd call the polaris. I've made a few videos of it and honestly it's about the most massive synth I've ever heard. Of course, I saw this thread cuz I'm wondering about getting something like the OB6 or Prophet 6, but not necessarily to get rid of my Polaris...

Here's a video of me using mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LyoNGZOfcQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LyoNGZOfcQ)
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: ryankm on September 12, 2020, 03:23:49 AM
Quote
Acetone?  Maybe that is what my Chroma Polaris needs.  I am having issues with envelope volume release.  The time counts down and the volume just ends instead of fades plus some of the functions barely work.  Like the modulation routing options...



I just picked up a DSI rev2 16 voic3 and i am using it as the midi controller.



Wait -  can you explain what's going on with your Polaris? I too have a polaris and if you're referring to envelope volume release perhaps cutting out abruptly, then we need to talk about calibration of the unit, which is well described in the manual. The polaris is extremely well thought out and has very good documentation, even if the manual is very thick and it's perhaps convoluted.

This makes me think that there's a lot going on that you might not be aware about:

1) Do you have a new membrane panel on the top or the old one? We can figure that out if you don't know.

2) Do you hear clicking when you press buttons? This can be turned on/off as desired.

3) What's wrong with the modulation routing? Could be something to do with a bad membrane panel which is pretty cheap to replace - I would totally do that if you haven't yet Paul DeRocco, who worked on the Polaris (I believe) made new membranes that do not suffer like the old ones.

...now - I'm pretty sure you said you thought the Polaris sounds "thin" - obviously it's subjective, but thin is probably one of the last things I'd call the polaris. I've made a few videos of it and honestly it's about the most massive synth I've ever heard. Of course, I saw this thread cuz I'm wondering about getting something like the OB6 or Prophet 6, but not necessarily to get rid of my Polaris...

Here's a video of me using mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LyoNGZOfcQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LyoNGZOfcQ)

it dose have a new membrane panel.  The guy I picked up from back in 2018 put it on.  It has always needed a warm up to work correctly.  As in me playing it for awhike tweaking parameters.  Right now as in this moment as I right this it currentlynis working.  I was scared there for a second like it wasn't going to cime back.   Yes yes sometimes the modulation is glitchy.  I have hard time getting it to go through.  To much or none at all.   It is hard tobget the vibrato to work right also.   like it'll randomly bend the note way down.    It was getting worse, but as of this moment everything works.   Some of the sliders need to be replaced.   Is there anything i can bring those back with besides that hexane spray?   like a grease?

I still have all the screws out of it to take apart.  I may have to perform surgurey.  I just havent figured out where to look first.   I know the Master Vol/Tune slider is having issues.   

oh btw I still have the orig. manual forbthat thing.

Anyway i just picked up a Dsi prophet 16 and te dco's sound much more thick and fatter than I was expecting, so thats good.   Ive got em both tuned together right now.   Doing a clavio bells thing and the Polaris is working right now.   It usually works best when filtering.(http://)
Title: Re: Prophet - 18
Post by: ryankm on September 19, 2020, 10:27:39 AM
So just opened it up and sprayed everything with that contact cleaner and put downward pressure on evry chip and cleaned up the keys a bit.   in all it was a 20min job and when I fired it up I was pleasently surprised to find that it sounded better than ever and evrything was working better than ever.   

....  There was a Prophet T8 on sale on craigslist here 5 years ago for 4500$$  and I am kicking myself for not getting it to buy it right now.