The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Pro 3 => Topic started by: creativespiral on July 29, 2020, 09:18:04 AM
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Carson posted this news on GS:
Main OS 1.1.0.0 Available Now:
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,4216.0.html
User Wavetables News Release:
https://www.sequential.com/2020/07/user-wavetables-for-pro-3/
User Wavetable Import / Generation Tool:
https://www.sequentialwaves.com/
Awesome!
1. 32 New User Wavetable Slots (#33 - #64 )
2. Each Wavetable includes sixteen single cycle "reference frames". These reference frames will be morphed between to create in-between steps (?)
3. Each single cycle waveform should be 16-bit, 48kHz, and ideally, 1024 samples in length
4. Name each of the sixteen single cycle waves with a numeric prefix: "01-Name", "02-Name", "03-Name"... up to "16-Name"
5. Upon using the www.SequentialWaves.com tool, a sysex file is created for the wavetable that can be transferred via sysex utility.
Questions:
A. Is it possible to import fewer than sixteen reference frames / single cycle waves? For instance, could we do just 01, 05, 09, 13, 16 or something like that and have them blended?
B. Is it possible to share them and change the slot they will be input into the synth? ie: is there a way to change the user wavetable slot? If not an easy way, is there a hack via sysex? Where would we edit that?
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This is super exciting! Does anyone know of any good guides for how to make wavetables? I can't wait to get home to try this out :)
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I grabbed a whole bunch of single cycle wave forms from https://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/
and then uploaded them in batches of 16, hit save, then send sysex and VOILA!!
32 new wavetables in my Pro3..... they sound quite wild cause I put no thought into it lol.....
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also make them at http://scw.sheetsofsound.com/editor.html
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Just tested out the new OS and Wavetable import.
Pretty cool!
I uploaded a couple wavetables I created here:
https://www.presetpatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral
33_AEIOUTSX.syx
User Wavetable Slot 33 - Vocal Sounds A-E-I-O-U-T-S-X Morph
34_EagleLnd.syx
User Wavetable Slot 34 - "The Eagle Has Landed" NASA Morph
I think there may be a bug (or just a limitation) with the OSC 3 frequency range, that limits how high, or how low the frequency of the Osc3 can go (depending on whether in regular or low freq mode). I've been playing with using the Mod Matrix. DC > Osc3 Freq Course (Amount -24, -48, -72, -96 = -1oct, -2oct, -3oct, -4oct) Or alternatively, doing the same with Osc3 in Low Freq Mode and +24, +48, +72, +96 etc....
What I've found is that when doing so, to get the wavetable into a desired freq range, there seem to be hard limits where if you play below a certain C note in regular mode, or above a certain C note in low freq mode, the Osc3 just keeps playing at the same frequency over and over for all notes below (or above) that threshold. I wonder if there is some reason this has been implemented, but if this "osc3 freq range clipping" can be removed, it would be very useful when working with custom wavetables to get them in a desired freq range, matched with the other oscillators.
Really excited that wavetable import is here!
Looking forward to exploring the depths.
Nice job Seq team!
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I grabbed a whole bunch of single cycle wave forms from https://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/
and then uploaded them in batches of 16, hit save, then send sysex and VOILA!!
32 new wavetables in my Pro3..... they sound quite wild cause I put no thought into it lol.....
@SonicNeutronic - Yeah the Adventure Kid library is great!... I use it extensively for my Reaktor Synth I built.
AKWF import was the first thing I tried, but it didn't seem to work for me... I think the Adventure Kid library is 600 samples long each? Maybe that's the issue I had? Did you have to go through some sort of conversion process, or is there some other area where the Adventure Kid samples are available in a format that is accepted by the SequentialWaves.com site? Or maybe I just did something else wrong?
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I grabbed a whole bunch of single cycle wave forms from https://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/
and then uploaded them in batches of 16, hit save, then send sysex and VOILA!!
32 new wavetables in my Pro3..... they sound quite wild cause I put no thought into it lol.....
@SonicNeutronic - Yeah the Adventure Kid library is great!... I use it extensively for my Reaktor Synth I built.
AKWF import was the first thing I tried, but it didn't seem to work for me... I think the Adventure Kid library is 600 samples long each? Maybe that's the issue I had? Did you have to go through some sort of conversion process, or is there some other area where the Adventure Kid samples are available in a format that is accepted by the SequentialWaves.com site? Or maybe I just did something else wrong?
No I didnt have to do anything, I just downloaded the zip file, then opened the Sequential utility and dragged in 16 random single cycles waveforms, then went through the midi send process.
I was able to create 32 new wavetables of varying quality in about 15 mins. Including some Commodore 64 and Nintendo waveforms lol....
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This is awesome! I'll start sharing some wt's as I create them!
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Yeah, I am having trouble figuring out how to make my single cycle pieces 1024 samples. I'm using Audacity. Is there a way to switch from seconds to samples? At any rate I've attached my first patch. It's #33 and it's from the Prophet VS patch called Space Drum. It didn't turn out to be very percussive sounding, though.
Edit/ I figured it out. I've attached another VS samples, this one of the preset Nightmare. It sounds pretty good!
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Really cool that this is available but hoping they dont leave us with a simple web editor. Look at what novation has for wavetable editing! I was something that can convert existing wavetables into Pro 3s format. Not a single cycle drag and drop sysex export....
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Check out Synthesis Technology's WaveEdit. It's free. It creates wavetables with 64 reference points... you can export and strategically pick 16 of them... takes some trial and error to get good results, but it works.
https://synthtech.com/waveedit/
I'm wondering if it's technically possible to import more reference frames than the 16? If we could do 32 or 64 single cycle keyframes, that would be amazing for more nuanced sounds and capturing more details for multi sound wavetables. In the Pro3, we have 256 steps. I'm wondering how much of the morphing/interpolating is done on the Pro3, and how much is done in the SequentialWaves.com tool. If we can select different amounts of keyframes to import, that would be really awesome. Is this possible Chris, Carson, Fabien? Or is the 16 keyframes a limitation of the Osc3 setup?
Uploaded another wavetable here:
https://www.PresetPatch.com/user/CreativeSpiral
707 Drum Kit (with 7 Parts)
Bass, Snare, Clap, HiClosed, TomLow, TomHigh, HiOpen
Just created some cool drum sequences with it. Will upload some examples / videos soon.
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I'm wondering if it's technically possible to import more reference frames than the 16? If we could do 32 or 64 single cycle keyframes, that would be amazing for more nuanced sounds and capturing more details for multi sound wavetables. In the Pro3, we have 256 steps. I'm wondering how much of the morphing/interpolating is done on the Pro3, and how much is done in the SequentialWaves.com tool. If we can select different amounts of keyframes to import, that would be really awesome. Is this possible Chris, Carson, Fabien? Or is the 16 keyframes a limitation of the Osc3 setup?
I'm think i'm with you on this one - i think the user wavetables would end up a lot smoother. I actually was able to create a table by using xfer serum. You can import samples into the oscillators at 1024, then modify it and there's an option to condense to 16 samples. Then you can export each sample as a single cycle waveform. It's proving quicker than learning WaveEdit so far!
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I don't own the Pro 3, but consider buying it and have a couple of questions about this new feature:
1. What will happen if I import a patch made by someone else and the patch is based on his/her user wavetable? Will the patch load and use the wavetable available in my synth so I actually will never know if the patch sounds as it is supposed to? Or will the synth notice it during the import and give me a warning in the display? Or can the user wavetable be a part of the sysex file (which I highly doubt)?
2. Will it be possible to make bright, clean and defined FM-alike sounds if I sample typical FM-modulated waveforms and import them as wavetables? I have the P6 and miss this kind of sounds.
Any replies are appreciated.
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1. What will happen if I import a patch made by someone else and the patch is based on his/her user wavetable?
2. Will it be possible to make bright, clean and defined FM-alike sounds if I sample typical FM-modulated waveforms and import them as wavetables?
1. The new wavetables come in to numbered slots, so whatever wavetable you have in that slot is the one that will be used for the patch.
2. I think the Pro-3 can get you adjacent to an FM sound, but it doesn't replace FM, IMO. It sounds closer to PPG and the Prophet VS, which is digital, but in a diff flavor than a DX.
That said, I did just make a DX7 Bass wavetable for the Pro-3 if any folks want to d/l. Check out the attached! It comes in as slot #37
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Has anyone figured out how to get actual decent sounding wavetable results with this? I just exported two from serum. Carefully selecting the most rich harmonics and exporting as single cycles. Then loading into sequentials wavetable thing and it sounds terrible. Weird interpolation artifacts, just not usable. The feature is appreciated dont get me wrong I just want to be able to use it and make music not hope to maybe get a wavetable on there.... Even if sequential released a library of ones they made and showed exactly how to get results.
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In terms of the zero crossing is there a way on a Wave Editor where it will automatically finds the zero crossing point?
Also what program would be best for importing a sampled sound and converting it into a wavetable? I'd like to do something similar to the "Sequential Wave" wavetable where it actually says something.
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Check out Synthesis Technology's WaveEdit. It's free. It creates wavetables with 64 reference points... you can export and strategically pick 16 of them... takes some trial and error to get good results, but it works.
https://synthtech.com/waveedit/
@creativespiral are you able to batch export the 16 you want? and how are you making them 1024 in length, I had to load each single cycle individually, and then bounce them individually, ending up with 16, 256 long single cycles, that I then dropped in the sequential web thing and it gave me a semi ok wavetable different from what I started with, an octave high. I think the octave is due to working at 44.1 ... maybe it wasnt an octave, but not the same pitch as the factory waves... Lmk what your workflow is like this this. Thanks everyone and anyone trying out here!
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Cleary I dont know how to quote...
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In terms of the zero crossing is there a way on a Wave Editor where it will automatically finds the zero crossing point?
Also what program would be best for importing a sampled sound and converting it into a wavetable? I'd like to do something similar to the "Sequential Wave" wavetable where it actually says something.
I created a wavetable of the NASA audio for "The Eagle Has Landed" in the Wave Editor program - it's definitely crude... I think that may be overly ambitious for the Pro3 in current state ("The Eagle Has Landed" has 6 syllables with probably around 16 phonemes) I strategically picked each of the 16 steps. You can make it out as you swing through the wavetable with envelope or lfo, but its definitely a sort of "abstract synth rendition".
The issue with doing spoken words is that you've only got 16 single cycle steps to import and interpolate between. If it would be possible to import 32 or 64 single cycle reference points, it would be much easier to pull off these type of complex wave morphing sounds.
Ultimately, you need a minimum of one single cycle reference for each phoneme, and preferably 3-4 reference points to capture the initial transient, fundamental/sustain, and decay/release wave signature. I would say that the "Sequential" sound (3 syllables, ~9 phonemes) is probably the maximum you can pull off with a good rendering.
When I started working on the 707 wavetable kit, I initially tried to capture 16 sounds, but realized that I couldn't get enough data for each to capture their character. So I reduced down to 7 sounds (6 sounds with equal timing, and the hi-hat open with twice the reference points) The end result is a sort of degraded, but sonically interesting wave set that can pull off some cool drum patterns. I think I'll probably do a couple more versions of the 707 wavetable set with just 4 sounds (kick, snare, clap, hh-closed), and maybe one with just two sounds (snare, clap). With fewer sounds in the wavetable, you can capture more temporal details (ie: transient attack, spike, fundamental/sustain, initial decay, fade out) Then when morphing through them, they should sound much more realistic.
@creativespiral are you able to batch export the 16 you want? and how are you making them 1024 in length, I had to load each single cycle individually, and then bounce them individually, ending up with 16, 256 long single cycles, that I then dropped in the sequential web thing and it gave me a semi ok wavetable different from what I started with, an octave high. I think the octave is due to working at 44.1 ... maybe it wasnt an octave, but not the same pitch as the factory waves... Lmk what your workflow is like this this. Thanks everyone and anyone trying out here!
Yeah, the WaveEdit program has the ability to both Import Wav sounds to be chopped up into 64 single cycle steps, and the ability to batch export the 64 individual wav snippets. Once you export them, you have to go to the folder, and select the 16 you want to use, and name them with numeric prefixes. Then you can import to the SequentialWaves.com site.
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Yeah, the WaveEdit program has the ability to both Import Wav sounds to be chopped up into 64 single cycle steps, and the ability to batch export the 64 individual wav snippets. Once you export them, you have to go to the folder, and select the 16 you want to use, and name them with numeric prefixes. Then you can import to the SequentialWaves.com site.
I just made a quick fix to WaveEdit so that it supports 1024-sample waves. I'll fork it and make a macOS build in the next hour or so, in case that's helpful to anyone.
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Yeah, the WaveEdit program has the ability to both Import Wav sounds to be chopped up into 64 single cycle steps, and the ability to batch export the 64 individual wav snippets. Once you export them, you have to go to the folder, and select the 16 you want to use, and name them with numeric prefixes. Then you can import to the SequentialWaves.com site.
I just made a quick fix to WaveEdit so that it supports 1024-sample waves. I'll fork it and make a macOS build in the next hour or so, in case that's helpful to anyone.
Here it is: https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1
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Yeah, the WaveEdit program has the ability to both Import Wav sounds to be chopped up into 64 single cycle steps, and the ability to batch export the 64 individual wav snippets. Once you export them, you have to go to the folder, and select the 16 you want to use, and name them with numeric prefixes. Then you can import to the SequentialWaves.com site.
I just made a quick fix to WaveEdit so that it supports 1024-sample waves. I'll fork it and make a macOS build in the next hour or so, in case that's helpful to anyone.
Here it is: https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1
Any chance of a windows version ? :)
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Yeah, the WaveEdit program has the ability to both Import Wav sounds to be chopped up into 64 single cycle steps, and the ability to batch export the 64 individual wav snippets. Once you export them, you have to go to the folder, and select the 16 you want to use, and name them with numeric prefixes. Then you can import to the SequentialWaves.com site.
I just made a quick fix to WaveEdit so that it supports 1024-sample waves. I'll fork it and make a macOS build in the next hour or so, in case that's helpful to anyone.
Here it is: https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1
Whoa! Thank you! Definitely going to use this.
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Yeah, the WaveEdit program has the ability to both Import Wav sounds to be chopped up into 64 single cycle steps, and the ability to batch export the 64 individual wav snippets. Once you export them, you have to go to the folder, and select the 16 you want to use, and name them with numeric prefixes. Then you can import to the SequentialWaves.com site.
I just made a quick fix to WaveEdit so that it supports 1024-sample waves. I'll fork it and make a macOS build in the next hour or so, in case that's helpful to anyone.
Here it is: https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1
Thats awesome thank you very much.
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Yeah, the WaveEdit program has the ability to both Import Wav sounds to be chopped up into 64 single cycle steps, and the ability to batch export the 64 individual wav snippets. Once you export them, you have to go to the folder, and select the 16 you want to use, and name them with numeric prefixes. Then you can import to the SequentialWaves.com site.
I just made a quick fix to WaveEdit so that it supports 1024-sample waves. I'll fork it and make a macOS build in the next hour or so, in case that's helpful to anyone.
Here it is: https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1
Any chance of a windows version ? :)
Sure, over the weekend I'll probably have a chance.
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Yeah, the WaveEdit program has the ability to both Import Wav sounds to be chopped up into 64 single cycle steps, and the ability to batch export the 64 individual wav snippets. Once you export them, you have to go to the folder, and select the 16 you want to use, and name them with numeric prefixes. Then you can import to the SequentialWaves.com site.
I just made a quick fix to WaveEdit so that it supports 1024-sample waves. I'll fork it and make a macOS build in the next hour or so, in case that's helpful to anyone.
Here it is: https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1
Any chance of a windows version ? :)
Sure, over the weekend I'll probably have a chance.
A Windows version (only tested to ensure that it starts) is now at https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1 (https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1). I don't know if/when I'll get around to a Linux version. Anyway, let me know how far this gets you. Enjoy the weekend!
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Cheers for the Win version, will test over the weekend. 8)
I wonder if it can be altered to 16 slices ?
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Cheers for the Win version, will test over the weekend. 8)
I wonder if it can be altered to 16 slices ?
Almost definitely. I'll check it out next week. In the spirit of "do no harm", it will be baby steps.
EDIT: just made the 2 character change and it works, so I'll push that and rebuild on Monday.
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A Windows version (only tested to ensure that it starts) is now at https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1 (https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1). I don't know if/when I'll get around to a Linux version. Anyway, let me know how far this gets you. Enjoy the weekend!
Nice! Thanks @sockmonkey!! Will try this build out tonight.
I saw in WaveEdit.hpp, line 181, is:
#define BANK_LEN 64
In import.cpp it references BANK_LEN:
const int audioLenMax = BANK_LEN * WAVE_LEN * 100;
I'm assuming that changing that one variable would do it, if you wanna try a build with 16 slices... could be very useful for importing speech waves or other complex sounds.
I made some edits from the Git yesterday, but couldn't get a Windows exe to build. Was wondering, did you build from a Windows machine? Or Mac? Or Linux with make? I kept getting errors with both VS nmake and VirtualBox Ubuntu make.
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A Windows version (only tested to ensure that it starts) is now at https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1 (https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.1). I don't know if/when I'll get around to a Linux version. Anyway, let me know how far this gets you. Enjoy the weekend!
Nice! Thanks @sockmonkey!! Will try this build out tonight.
I saw in WaveEdit.hpp, line 181, is:
#define BANK_LEN 64
In import.cpp it references BANK_LEN:
const int audioLenMax = BANK_LEN * WAVE_LEN * 100;
I'm assuming that changing that one variable would do it, if you wanna try a build with 16 slices... could be very useful for importing speech waves or other complex sounds.
I made some edits from the Git yesterday, but couldn't get a Windows exe to build. Was wondering, did you build from a Windows machine? Or Mac? Or Linux with make? I kept getting errors with both VS nmake and VirtualBox Ubuntu make.
Yes, that's the 2-char change. Here are binaries:
https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.2 (https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.2)
I built Windows on Windows (mingw32) and macOS on macOS. And... Linux on Linux, as well. I haven't tried cross-compiling for Windows from Linux, presumably it works with Linux-mingw32.
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Here's an updated version which eliminates a library dependency which may have affected macOS users, preventing the app from running at all on some systems: https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.3 (https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.3).
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Here's an updated version which eliminates a library dependency which may have affected macOS users, preventing the app from running at all on some systems: https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.3 (https://github.com/jeremybernstein/WaveEdit/releases/tag/v1.0-alpha.3).
Thanks for the update! I'm on Mac and want to check this out.
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Hey Jeremy - are there any other changes to the PC version with the latest update, or is this just for Mac compatibility? I saw a note about 48khz, but wasn't sure if that was already addressed before. Wondering if I should download again. Thanks again for branching these changes!... works great!
Also, mentioned this in another thread, but here's a web based tool that can be used to change the destination slot for wavetables... in case you share/download other peoples tables and want to target them to different slots.
https://www.presetpatch.com/pro3wavetool
And some free wavetables here:
https://www.presetpatch.com/synth/sequential-pro-3
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Hey Jeremy - are there any other changes to the PC version with the latest update, or is this just for Mac compatibility? I saw a note about 48khz, but wasn't sure if that was already addressed before. Wondering if I should download again. Thanks again for branching these changes!... works great!
Also, mentioned this in another thread, but here's a web based tool that can be used to change the destination slot for wavetables... in case you share/download other peoples tables and want to target them to different slots.
https://www.presetpatch.com/pro3wavetool
And some free wavetables here:
https://www.presetpatch.com/synth/sequential-pro-3
Hey,
The PC version has the header "fix" (44100 -> 48000) to the exported files. I don't think this actually affects the processing in the Sequential web app (I tested it a few weeks ago and I don't think it made a difference, since 1024 samples is 1024 samples whether at 44100 or 48000). The PC version also has the dependency fix, but there appear to be linkage differences between PC and macOS probably make it irrelevant, beyond the 500kB or so you save from leaving that out.
I did some sniffing around the sysex files and I am very curious to understand the code used to generate the actual wavetable from the audio files. My investigations would indicate that the data is transferred to the Pro 3 as audio, rather than as some spectral description, which is interesting since it might make it possible to format them to behave, well, differently on-instrument (less smoothly, for instance). If you're into that sort of thing. In any case, I haven't gotten very far with that.
Ideally, Sequential would release a C (or Node.JS or whatever) library to build the sysex from the audio data. On one hand, this will preserve and prolong the technology in the event of a end-of-life for the instrument (or heaven forbid, the company!), and would also allow users/3rd party devs to build interfaces to their liking. The web interface is fine, the actual construction of the data is being done using WebAssembly (or ASM.js or whatever), though, so it's not so easy to determine the methodology -- you can decompile the WebAssembly, but the code's not particularly legible. Anyway, maybe they'll share the method with editor developers at some point so that there are more options.
Sorry, got off on a tangent. Downloading again won't kill you, but it won't fix much for PC or Linux users, either.