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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Tempest => Topic started by: mutroke on May 09, 2020, 03:39:20 AM

Title: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: mutroke on May 09, 2020, 03:39:20 AM
Hi guys, i have noticed the price for the Tempest increasing this period (aprox 1600$ vs 1999$), could this be because it will be discontinued or some components increasing in price / harder to find these days ?
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Yorgos Arabatzis on May 09, 2020, 08:23:56 AM
Itís becoming a classic thatís why ;)
Bet a lot of people seeing what this baby can do and looking to grab one..
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: mutroke on May 09, 2020, 08:40:44 AM
Yes, its a cool instrument, i know you are a big fan of it (i remember your posts when the old DSI forum was on) BUT i saw that it is no longer in stock at sweetwater, musicstore.de and other shops, then those who still have some in stock increased their prices with 300 $ . So could it be that it will be discontinued ? Im guessing so , because the other DSI or Sequential synths did not increase in price this year, so this scenario seems similar to the one with the Technics sl 1200 decks when they were discontinued, prices increased instantly. I was thinking of selling mine a while ago (to buy a Prophet 6), but now i am not sure it's a good idea to sell :)), since the prices could rise even higher. Maybe someone has some inside news about the future of the Tempest .
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 09, 2020, 03:40:37 PM
Perhaps I'm just pointing out the obvious, but we are in the middle of a global pandemic: supply lines are strained, manufacturing has slowed to a crawl, the economy is in the toilet, the value of most currencies has plummeted... Just saying.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: mutroke on May 09, 2020, 10:14:20 PM
Yes, but just for the Tempest ? The other DSI synths are all in stock and their prices did not increase now with this crisis .
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 10, 2020, 12:32:17 AM
Well, for the record, there has been no change in the price of Tempests here on the Canadian west coast.  Regardless, it seems to me that such changes would be different for different products, in different places, depending on many different factors.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 10, 2020, 06:25:41 AM
As far as I know, a new Tempest has been $1999 for the last few years at least. I actually just rewatched Sonic State's 2011 review of it and they mentioned $1999 being the price, so I think that's just normal?
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Yorgos Arabatzis on May 10, 2020, 06:57:26 AM
I got mine for 1650Ä here from a Greek synth store.I remember did a price beat against Juno.co.uk
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: mutroke on May 10, 2020, 09:15:50 AM
It was  about 1600-1700 euros on Thomann few months ago , now its 1999 euros, if i'm not mistaken.I could be wrong, but i used to check the prices because i wanted to sell mine, that's why i was shocked when i checked few days ago that its almost 2000 euros.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: mutroke on May 11, 2020, 10:21:26 PM
OK so i sent an e-mail to Sweetware asking about Tempest and this is what they said :
"In that regard, the Tempest has been discontinued and we will not be getting any more stock."
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 12, 2020, 05:02:03 AM
Well then... Better keep 'em close, hold 'em tight, and sleep with one eye open.   ;)

Cheers! 
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Yorgos Arabatzis on May 12, 2020, 06:00:02 AM
Lucky for us!!!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: muleskinner on May 12, 2020, 10:32:21 AM
I don't know if that's good news for those of us that are keen users or not!

Probably not great news really as servicing will no doubt become more problematic. Prices may well rise on the used market, but if you don't want to sell that makes no odds.

I suspect it'll be more appreciated in a few year's time than it is now. Maybe!  ;D



Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 13, 2020, 11:46:52 AM
That's a shame that it's being discontinued. It's close to a decade old now so I guess I'm not really surprised. Dave Smith has been hinting at some new product coming this summer or fall, so maybe if we're really lucky it'll be a Tempest 2 :D
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Yorgos Arabatzis on May 13, 2020, 12:14:36 PM
If i had to give a percentage estimation about this it will be...hmmm...80%
AKAI is killing it out there with their new line of samplers (MPC LIVE II has just been announced).
And yes I know itís not the same category but the right move from Sequential is to respond with a similar sampling product but with added analog synth wizardry.Basically as Tempest should have been in there first place ;) The knowledge is there from the Prophet X they only have to port it to a Tempest 2.

Dave Smith has been hinting at some new product coming this summer or fall, so maybe if we're really lucky it'll be a Tempest 2 :D
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 13, 2020, 12:46:02 PM
That's a good point about the Prophet X sampling tech. I kind of assumed the Tempest would never get a sequel, but the timing of the discontinuation definitely is intriguing. It could also just simply be that they're manufacturing so many other synths that it's not cost-effective to keep producing the Tempest too. Guess we'll find out in August!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 14, 2020, 04:10:21 PM
I really hope Tempest X is next up on Sequential's plate.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: DigitalGeek on May 18, 2020, 07:24:20 AM
i think i would sell my wife (childs are  free in the package)  for get a Tempest 2  :o
can't wait to see
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: muleskinner on May 18, 2020, 08:46:00 AM
Is a Tempest 2 really that likely though?

After the debacle that was/is the Tempest firmware it seemed pretty clear that Roger Linn was the only one who really had his head in the game as far as the drum-machine side of the equation went - and it seems extremely unlikely that he''l be back in the picture. Would DSI really know what they're doing solo? It's certainly not what I'd see as their core strength!

Not sure I'd trust DSI again tbh, even though I love the Tempest. Maybe after it's been out for a few years or so!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Stoss on May 18, 2020, 08:55:33 AM
Whatever DSI/Sequential is planning, I hope it results in the value of my Tempest skyrocketing, while simultaneously leaving me with even better options for my performance needs... be that a product made by Sequential, Roger Linn, or anyone else. Honestly though, I think replacing the Tempest will be harder than squashing all of its bugs.  ;)
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Stoss on May 18, 2020, 09:03:02 AM
Is a Tempest 2 really that likely though?

After the debacle that was/is the Tempest firmware it seemed pretty clear that Roger Linn was the only one who really had his head in the game as far as the drum-machine side of the equation went - and it seems extremely unlikely that he''l be back in the picture. Would DSI really know what they're doing solo? It's certainly not what I'd see as their core strength!

Not sure I'd trust DSI again tbh, even though I love the Tempest. Maybe after it's been out for a few years or so!

Yes... to all of this. I think Roger Linn is the very reason that I connect with the Tempest. The Prophet X has struck me as an oddity. I swear, in some of the videos I even witnessed Dave Smith trying to distance himself from the responsibilities of the 8dio side of things. I think Dave's sweet spot is analog synths. The Pro3 is killer. Maybe it's just in my head, but there seems to be a continual inability for Sequential to polish up the firmware of their synths. That seems to become extremely difficult when things go slightly outside of their lane... Sample based architecture... Drum machine based architecture. It just feels like they are really stretching when trying to pull this off. I would however LOVE to be proved wrong.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2020, 09:05:59 AM
They don't need to change the format too much, which is what Roger was there for. If they incorporate Prophet X sample tech/filters and the Pro 3 sequencer parameter lock/external MIDI tech (so long as the tracks are made fully poly capable), they'd have a real hit on their hands. All the tech is there and just needs to be tweaked a bit.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: AdamXAudio on May 18, 2020, 11:02:15 AM
Lots of good points made. I think the uniqueness of the Tempest in the DSI/Sequential product line along with Roger Linn's involvement really does make it unlikely that we'll get a Tempest 2, but you never know.

If the Tempest is actually discontinued I hope it gets a proper announcement at least. I seem to recall them doing something like that when they retired the Mopho/Tetra line.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2020, 11:38:27 AM
Again, the format is already there so they don't need Roger's involvement this time around. Minor changes like adding sustain and release knobs and getting rid of the main out effects/MIDI delay in favor of per voice effects from the PX. It's mainly about repurposing prior tech, which is a common sense business move, yet it would still be unique in their product-line. Nothing on the market would even remotely touch it.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 18, 2020, 03:41:38 PM
Again, the format is already there so they don't need Roger's involvement this time around...

LOL...

I honestly can't wait to watch this unfold from the sidelines this time.  It'll be a right 'ol comedy of errors, I reckon.  Better blow the dust off the popcorn maker...   ;)

Cheers!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2020, 04:16:00 PM
Here's an idea on what Roger brought to the table:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KCjFXnxwA0

I've never heard anyone complain about the "format" of the Tempest, I.E. its user interface, nor do I see much need to improve upon that aspect.

The biggest hurdle, I.E. technical limitation, came from the under powered chip as noted here:
https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,2704.msg35782.html?PHPSESSID=3n9vj138h0i302n5uvq32ai187#msg35782
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 18, 2020, 04:31:37 PM
Careful now.  You might be at risk of betraying just how little you know about who contributed what to the Tempest's design and functionality, and how this debacle all transpired.  Just saying...

But hey, if and when the T2 drops, you dive right in and have at 'er, if that's where your faith leads you.  I'll be watching, with popcorn in hand and a big smile on my face.  Don't say I didn't warn you.  ;)

Cheers!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2020, 05:51:38 PM
How about you enlighten me beyond your (thus far) empty posts since you seem to know more than what the actual contributors stated. Just saying... It's clear what their general contributions were,  even if they weren't entirely relegated (https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2016/04/28/dsi-tempest-drum-machine-update-in-the-works/) to a single aspect.
 
CHearz! OMg popkorn lawls  ;)
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 18, 2020, 07:05:53 PM
I see.  Well...

You're welcome to click on my user name --> Show Posts --> Page 12 --> and start reading...

Cheers!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2020, 08:18:30 PM
Aside from your apparent saltiness, the crux to your non-explicit bone of contention in still entirely unclear... Regardless, there's an apt nearly 1:1 comparison that can be made with the MPC line. Akai as a business (after the assets were acquired) successfully moved on with the MPC as a platform after Roger's departure. Did they ever truly reinvent the wheel after Roger? No, but at the same time it wasn't entirely necessary either.

To me the questions are as follows:

Would the Tempest II benefit more from Roger's presence or rather a highly skilled programmer? Does Sequential even have a programmer skilled enough to pull it off? Could Roger release a revolutionary LinnDrum II (https://youtu.be/ZDotr1lmNwI?t=5) and who's to say it won't be the next Linn 9000?
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Stoss on May 18, 2020, 08:26:16 PM
Popcorn. Beer. Let the show begin. Iíd love to be surprised by a completely different story, but something tells me... same writer, same story.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 18, 2020, 08:42:37 PM
Aside from your apparent saltiness, the crux to your non-explicit bone of contention in still entirely unclear... Regardless, there's an apt nearly 1:1 comparison that can be made with the MPC line. Akai as a business (after the assets were acquired) successfully moved on with the MPC as a platform after Roger's departure. Did they ever truly reinvent the wheel after Roger? No, but at the same time it wasn't entirely necessary either.

To me the questions are as follows:

Would the Tempest II benefit more from Roger's presence or rather a highly skilled programmer? Does Sequential even have a programmer skilled enough to pull it off? Could Roger release a revolutionary LinnDrum II (https://youtu.be/ZDotr1lmNwI?t=5) and who's to say it won't be the next Linn 9000?

First of all, my "saltiness" is part of a longstanding and well-earned tradition around here, and the "crux" of the proverbial bone I'm picking is only unclear to you.

Secondly, with regards to Roger Linn and Akai, you wouldn't be so quick to use that as an example if you knew the dynamics of that situation, or the details of what has happened on either front since their parting of ways.

Thirdly, Roger Linn is working on the LinnDrum II as we speak.  Indeed, there is a working prototype on his desk.  But it will have more in common with the LinnStrument than any of his previous drum machines.

Lastly...

"Would the Tempest II benefit more from Roger's presence?"
Yes, absolutely without question, but that will never happen.

"Does Sequential even have a programmer skilled enough to pull it off?"
Let's just say the Tempest's OS was and remains the mess it is for a reason, and it wasn't Roger Linn's fault.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 18, 2020, 08:46:26 PM
Popcorn. Beer. Let the show begin. Iíd love to be surprised by a completely different story, but something tells me... same writer, same story.

I'd invite you over, Stoss, but you know... Physical distancing.   :-\

Besides, I think we both know how this movie ends.   ;)

Cheers!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2020, 08:49:50 PM
Youíve not said a single thing Iím unaware of, aside from going over information Iíve already covered.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 18, 2020, 08:53:37 PM
Yep, you've got it all in perspective, clearly.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 18, 2020, 09:44:58 PM
What we clearly have is two differing opinions on the Tempest.

Iím just wondering if youíre aware of the history of the Linn 9000 since you conveniently glossed over that question...
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: muleskinner on May 19, 2020, 12:15:15 AM
I think Dave's sweet spot is analog synths. The Pro3 is killer. Maybe it's just in my head, but there seems to be a continual inability for Sequential to polish up the firmware of their synths.

That is exactly my feeling too. And I'm talking slightly out of my arse because my only direct experience is with the Tempest, everything else comes from what I'm reading on forums and watching on YouTube, but the 'hybrid' DSI synths just seem a mess to me. It's like they don't really get it and are just flinging functional mud about and hoping that some of it sticks.

Roger Linn, on the other hand, has focus. You can bet that when he releases something it'll be well thought through.

Even though it's ten(?) years old, and despite its many flaws, I just don't see anything out there that even vaguely competes with the Tempest at the moment in terms of a six-voice fully multimbral analog poly with advanced (compared to most 'keyboard synths') sequencing capabilities. Oh yeah - and a couple of digital oscs and a bunch of samples thrown in as a bonus!  ;D
 
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 19, 2020, 02:31:34 AM
Iím just wondering if youíre aware of the history of the Linn 9000 since you conveniently glossed over that question...

I "conveniently glossed over" your question about the Linn 9000, because I'm not interested in discussing the trials and tribulations of a 40yr old sampler/drum machine, built by a young and ambitious tech designer, at a time when portable computing technology was in its infancy.  Nor do I think it's relevant to this conversation; unless, of course, you're concerned about the integrity of the floppy drive on the next Tempest?

Maybe we could also discuss that infamous moment when Benjamin Franklin accidentally electrocuted himself...

Cheers!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 19, 2020, 02:45:28 AM
Roger Linn, on the other hand, has focus. You can bet that when he releases something it'll be well thought through.

This is exactly it.  Roger has the perspective, objectivity, and methodology to design complex, all-in-one music production and performance workstations.  Sequential, on the other hand, should stick with straight-forward, analog keyboard synths.

To that end, why anyone would trust a Tempest II, after the 7-year debacle that was the original, is beyond me.  There are so many great drum machines available currently, and yet more on the way, from reputable manufacturers with proven track records.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 19, 2020, 10:29:14 AM
The point is, it's not a completely unprecedented situation for Roger. It deserves to be mentioned, just as you're likely to piss and moan about the Tempest till the end of time. Although unlike you, I'm not here to point the finger. If we're to take Roger at his word, his main focus was the user interface, which was by most accounts a success. As for the MPC remark, the point I was trying to draw is that making iterations has obviously been successful enough in and of itself to have been going on for decades. Unlike you, I think Tempest is a viable platform to build upon. Having two visionaries argue over some entirely new direction to take probably would not be the best for it; however, making sure it's not bottlenecked like before in conjunction with having the most competent programmer available definitely is.

Do tell, what are these drum machines on the market that you think are so great?
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Stoss on May 19, 2020, 11:48:07 AM
When it comes to the Tempest, I believe there was only one visionary, and that was Roger Linn. That is not to say there was not a lot of smart people in the room contributing great ideas and putting in tons of time to make the Tempest what it is. I think many aspects of the Tempest were made great by what DSI brought to the table, but really, the Tempest is a combination of Rogerís vision for what a performance oriented drum machine should be combined with the analog synthesis of DSI.

I think it is pretty easy to argue that DSI/Sequential lacks the focus and ability to carry forward the platform of the Tempest without the help of a visionary like Roger. The evidence for that is laid down in the many years worth of beta testing and firmware updates that took place over the years.

In regards to focus, you can look no further than the implementation of extraneous features like the compressor envelope. How much effort and precious memory was wasted on a feature that was never requested? Why were specified features not made to work while this side interest became so important? As the years went on, The lack of direct involvement on Rogerís part allowed the Tempest to drift off course.

In regards to ability, I donít know how else to explain why the Tempest still has broken and missing features. One of my most memorable moments was after I first purchased the Tempest. It wasnít working correctly so Carson directed me to the forum to download the latest beta (and so the torture began). I installed the beta, and then all of a sudden I was getting these weird flams as I was performing and recording real-time on the pads. I let them know about the problem. To my surprise, the programmer tried so hard to get the user base to accept it as ďexpected behaviorĒ. I honestly couldnít believe it, especially after dropping such a large amount of money on this piece of equipment. Of course they eventually fixed that issue, but the amount of pressing it took for them to do it was really strange. As I do think DSI wanted to do the right thing then, and wants to now, I think the only explanation for not correcting things is either an inability to see them as incorrect or an inability to do anything about them.

Last year Chris hopped on this very forum to proclaim that he has learned a lot and could do ď10x better nowĒ. Man, I am all for that. In fact, that is the perfect reason to call it the Tempest X rather than the Tempest II. But honestly, everything I have witnessed and experienced myself has me sitting with popcorn and doing a little observing before I go and drop thousands on anything with the DSI/Sequential badge affixed to it.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 19, 2020, 01:43:24 PM
If anything, I was giving Roger his dues. Both Dave and Roger are visionaries in general (not strictly in regards to the Tempest) and therefore have strong opinions. They've even come out and said there were  arguments. (http://www.thesynthesizersympathizer.com/2011/10/dave-smith-interview-we-talk-tempest.html) Roger on the other hand can now go off unrestrained and give us perhaps something revolutionary. We'll just have to wait and see how this new expressive "three dimensional" touch control pans out, especially for "making beats." It's not like the Linnstrument has exactly taken the world by storm... As for the hypothetical Tempest II, if it's used as a platform to build off of rather than scrapping it for something entirely new, then I would hope many lessons were indeed learned.

This entire argument has gone off in a direction of people feeling the need to air their grievances, which is fine. Personally, I've got plenty more grievances with all the other well known drum machines on the market that I've briefly owned, which is a good chunk of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDotr1lmNwI
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Stoss on May 19, 2020, 02:40:41 PM
It seems to me that you were not present for any of the beta development or testing phases of the Tempest. You really have to have gone through that process to come out on the other side with a clear understanding of why a 2nd generation Tempest would not only be an insult to those that dedicated many many hours trying to drag DSI towards a reasonable place, but also why a 2nd generation Tempest would not be afforded the faith that a trustworthy company deserves.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 19, 2020, 04:38:55 PM
I've not once tried to argue that anyone should have faith. Nor do you know how long I've been going on about how DSI/Sequential is behind in the OS game and should seriously think of hiring help in that regard. On the flip side, you're also completely unaware of the many times I've dealt with DSI customer service who were always extremely helpful to me throughout the years and have fixed products with zero hassle, including, but not limited to the Tempest. You don't know, for example, the nightmares I've had dealing with faulty new products from Elektron, where replacement parts were repeatedly promised and never sent or when they had my new Rytm for months in limbo in their LA repair office. How they then sent it back to the wrong address and only by the goodness of the receiver it was returned to me.  Never mind the countless other technical issues and lousy customer support with Elektron products and many other companies' products that I've dealt with.

But you guys have at it with your narrative.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 19, 2020, 04:42:23 PM
[...] just as you're likely to piss and moan about the Tempest till the end of time. Although unlike you, I'm not here to point the finger. If we're to take Roger at his word...

Excuse me?  A little respect please.  If you like your Tempest as it is now, then you're welcome.

See, I don't have to take Roger at his word; we had each other on speed-dial for a year-and-a-half.  He asked me for my help in fixing this mess, and I gave it, fully and completely, to the benefit of this community and the betterment of the Tempest.

Sequential singlehandedly messed this one up, and dragged Roger's good name through the mud with them, never mind the burden to their customers.  And you're damn right that I will never forget it.  I dedicated nearly a half-decade to setting this straight, on behalf of the hardworking musicians (myself included) who spent over 2 grand of their hard-earned on a box that still has crippling bugs.  I did my best, on my time, unpaid, and with the best of intentions... What did you do?

Sure, every now and then I take a moment to cynically remind the newbies around here, all bright-eyed and naive, to not have so much faith DSI's glowing reputation.  You bet I do.  That's karma.  You, on the other hand, presumed the worst of the one guy around here actually looking out for you, and for what?  Because I laughed at your misguided optimism?  Again, you're welcome.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Stoss on May 19, 2020, 05:13:00 PM
I've not once tried to argue that anyone should have faith. Nor do you know how long I've been going on about how DSI/Sequential is behind in the OS game and should seriously think of hiring help in that regard. On the flip side, you're also completely unaware of the many times I've dealt with DSI customer service who were always extremely helpful to me throughout the years and have fixed products with zero hassle, including, but not limited to the Tempest. You don't know, for example, the nightmares I've had dealing with faulty new products from Elektron, where replacement parts were repeatedly promised and never sent or when they had my new Rytm for months in limbo in their LA repair office. How they then sent it back to the wrong address and only by the goodness of the receiver it was returned to me.  Never mind the countless other technical issues and lousy customer support with Elektron products and many other companies' products that I've dealt with.

But you guys have at it with your narrative.

I don't want to continue this competition with you... so let me point out where we agree...

DSI/Sequential has great customer service! Just like you, I've had wonderful experiences with the customer service side of DSI/Sequential. Carson is excellent and a great human being. I've sent my Tempest in for repairs, I've received board swaps, I've ordered parts, and I've emailed extensively. Everything was respectful and wonderful.

Elektron has their issues. I've been through three to four serial numbers and gone from the Rytm MKI to the MKII as Elektron has attempted to repair issues, multiple times over the years, most recently for a stretch of over 6 months. They even shipped something I ordered to the wrong address as well... and by the goodness of the receiver I was able to receive it. They have been generous, but unbelievably slow.

With that out of the way, I think the only place we disagree revolves around the experience that I do not think we share. I have been using the Tempest for many years and contributed greatly to the testing and reporting of the many, many bugs while trying to help make it as great as it can be.

So, may I ask you... How long have you owned your Tempest? Did you contribute to the testing that got it to where it is today? Were you on the old forum contributing back then? Do we share this experience?
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 20, 2020, 12:19:16 AM
the newbies
Next time you go to type about putting n00bs in their place, just read it back to yourself first. Feel free to search for someone continually pissing and moaning about why categories are important from before this current handle ... Or don't as it makes no difference.

I'm well aware of the trials and tribulations of the Tempest and I've owned three of them at different points. Also, congratulations that Roger is your BFF and you deserve a medal for your supreme cleverness. Again, if you want to keep taking what I'm saying as some slight to Roger, all I can say at this point is that perhaps your biases might be playing into it... Roger is off doing his own thing and best to him, sincerely. Lastly, good for you if it's your mission in life that a Tempest II never sees the light of day.

(https://forums.studentdoctor.net/data/avatars/m/719/719671.jpg?1450936133)

Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: muleskinner on May 20, 2020, 04:01:27 AM
With that out of the way, I think the only place we disagree revolves around the experience that I do not think we share. I have been using the Tempest for many years and contributed greatly to the testing and reporting of the many, many bugs while trying to help make it as great as it can be.

I think this is the point really. Some of us have been around here for aeons and are therefore pretty jaded and cynical.

Let's not forget it took literally years of complaints to DSI which eventually culminated in an online petition and a personal appeal to Roger (who was by all accounts unaware of the mess that had his name on it) before DSI would even implement basic features that had been in the manual from day one. DSI had no focus (as mentioned above, implementing arbitrary features that no-one requested just because it piqued the firmware programmer's interest) and went off polishing shiny new toys instead.

@JohnTheSavage, salty as he may be, was instrumental in the process of getting the Tempest to the workable state (in my opinion) it's in today so, if you enjoy your Tempest as much as I do, it's in no small part down to his efforts as well the significant contribution from the others here who went through those years of pain!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Yorgos Arabatzis on May 20, 2020, 04:45:42 AM
Ye John is the man and he is who he is..Heís contribution for Tempest was invaluable!
Actually if you talk with him to a more personal level as i do heís one great guy!
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: sofine on May 20, 2020, 05:23:23 AM
Ye John is the man and he is who he is..Heís contribution for Tempest was invaluable!
Actually if you talk with him to a more personal level as i do heís one great guy!

@JohnTheSavage, salty as he may be, was instrumental in the process of getting the Tempest to the workable state (in my opinion) it's in today so, if you enjoy your Tempest as much as I do, it's in no small part down to his efforts as well the significant contribution from the others here who went through those years of pain!

100% these things. I have skirted with several music instrument manufacturers for various beta testing / bug finding / UI feedback issues over the years and the only thing I know for certain from those experiences is that it takes a lot of time / focus and knowledge to identify, log and present findings and ideas in a structured and sensible manner, even more so with a complex beast like the Tempest. So, having been there from the very early days with the Tempest, I appreciate John's efforts. Chapeau!

Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: John the Savage on May 20, 2020, 05:12:31 PM
❤️
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: OceanMachine on May 22, 2020, 10:33:11 PM
I think this is the point really. Some of us have been around here for aeons and are therefore pretty jaded and cynical.

Let's not forget it took literally years of complaints to DSI which eventually culminated in an online petition and a personal appeal to Roger (who was by all accounts unaware of the mess that had his name on it) before DSI would even implement basic features that had been in the manual from day one. DSI had no focus (as mentioned above, implementing arbitrary features that no-one requested just because it piqued the firmware programmer's interest) and went off polishing shiny new toys instead.

The funny thing is, I've been here for many years (again, before this current handle) and am keenly aware of all this. Also, I don't expect the majority of posters to click on the hyperlinks I left, but they were left there as documentation that I already got the memo. Had JtS flat-out stated his mind to begin with and not tried to pull rank, we wouldn't be having this entire roundabout argument that was frankly based of a false assumption that I was same "bright-eyed newbie" here to attack Roger. People using my innocuous comments to launch their stalking-horse based off that projection were completely misguided. My whole point is that it would be a real shame if all that toil (by anyone who contributed) couldn't be used as a building block for a more fully realized version and we know Roger is off doing his own thing, which by all accounts is a fresh take. I hope Roger is successful in his next outing, even though I personally would need to see how it turned out before jumping onboard. At the same time, I realize some folks are already completely put off at this point by even the mere mention of the Tempest II; although having gone through a good chunk of the competition, I'm not one of those people. Any "optimism" I have that's part in dept to JtS, Stoss or anyone else that helped is not unappreciated by me. I'm not sure how I could make it more clear than that...

 even if they weren't entirely relegated (https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2016/04/28/dsi-tempest-drum-machine-update-in-the-works/)

The only thing I wish is that there was a little more effort put towards major OS updates, which would also extend the public interest in the products. Releasing a synth yearly for such a small company severely limits their resources to do so.

There's certainly no shortage of users that bemoan Sequential's comparative lack in the update department.

The same thing was said about the Tempest, so perhaps some forward thinking in building machines with more headroom is required. It would be nice to see some regular substantial updates. Now that synths are so easily update-able, support of these machines throughout their lifespan will help maintain interest. I know the same could have been said about the Tempest's image had the same been the case.

Edit: P.S. It's not my intention to attack Sequential either or to act like I have any insider information besides what was made public/been part of my personal experience.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: sata_fortuna on June 16, 2020, 09:50:39 AM
as a Tempest owner i have contradicting feelings about this tbh.
On the one hand as someone pointed out a few posts up there, the process to get to the final OS was such a pain that a new tempest would be kind of insulting.
On the other hand, i still fell the Tempest as a machine that got almost there. i mean, look at that prophet x synth engine. wouldn't 8 o those voices, with sample import/manipulation and effects, look great on a new tempest or what?
midi implementation never got really fully implemented on the curret-discontinued one though, lack of memory for coding was the excuse (although that doesn't explain why the OS took 7 years to get to the final version...)
to me sample import, effects and proper midi implementation are the things that are lacking on the current tempest. the last one i don't know sequential can do without Roger Linn involved.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Leviathant on June 25, 2020, 02:06:50 PM
Holy drama, Batman!

I pre-ordered my Tempest. It was disappointing and frustrating when I got it, and I shelved it for about a year. Maybe more? It was around the time the TR-8 was announced that I dusted off my Tempest for real and learned how to use it. It's incredible, it's still my desert island synth.

Shipping an unfinished product is never a good idea. Not having the resources to bring it up to speed post-launch is - well, let's face it, that's the world of tech. When you're taking on a complex, nuanced, niche project, the best you can do is estimate what effort it's going to take - but it's an estimation, not a prophecy.

This provided fuel for one of the most insufferably entitled communities I've ever had the displeasure of engaging with. I'm out there recording music and playing shows with something that, if the forums at the time were to be believed, was crippled beyond use. You still see that language today, in this very thread!

John, good on you for wringing out that last set of bugs & features. It's a bummer that it took such a coordinated campaign to make it happen. And the community feedback in the years after launch helped improve the Tempest in ways that went beyond the features in the original manual, even while failing for so long to deliver on so many other promised features.

But I never let that get in the way of using the damn thing. It was literally the most expensive piece of musical equipment I'd ever bought - might still be, now that I think of it - and it helped me find my voice, musically. It's too bad that so many people had the trouble they did, I don't mean to discount that.

At the same, speaking as a software developer who's worked on incredibly complicated, niche applications, I can't imagine how burned out Pym was after years of returning to the same project, receiving a nonstop barrage of overwrought criticism the entire time. I'm astonished he didn't quit.

If Sequential were to follow the Tempest up, I'm guessing the OS would be a rewrite from the ground up. It would be running on entirely different chips, and given the space limitations and the rigidity around additional features, not to mention the cryptic sysex, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the code for the Tempest was a steps away from Assembly language, if that. Even if you were able to more directly port code to updated firmware, reusable code isn't like lego blocks, it's like an organ transplant.

Personally, what I'd want in a Tempest successor would likely go against what would make a more successful machine: give me more! Per-voice comp & distortion. Global verb & delay with individual per-voice sends! Polyphonic MIDI sequence tracks for outboard gear! And yes, the ability to load samples! But no... most people can't manage the Tempest as-is.

It's too bad that upon revisiting this community, there's still so much dick swinging and posturing. "Some of us have been around here for aeons and are therefore pretty jaded and cynical." As I said at the start of this post, I've been here from the start of the Tempest saga - if you're that jaded and cynical, that's on you.
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Stoss on June 25, 2020, 10:02:39 PM
...
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: muleskinner on July 01, 2020, 10:19:36 AM
It's too bad that upon revisiting this community, there's still so much dick swinging and posturing. "Some of us have been around here for aeons and are therefore pretty jaded and cynical." As I said at the start of this post, I've been here from the start of the Tempest saga - if you're that jaded and cynical, that's on you.

Slightly weird rant there, mate.  ;D

That was a quote from me and, if you read my other posts, you'll see that on the whole I'm full of praise for the Tempest and am a vocal advocate for it both on here and on other forums. I don't think there's another synth available that competes, even almost ten years later.

Also, like you, I've spent time learning it in and out. I've almost finished a videogame on which all the FX were done on the Tempest, that's over 250 individual analog sounds designed from scratch. I am well acquainted with its strong points as well as its flaws.

What my 'jaded and cynical' comment referred to was my attitude to any marketing spiel that comes out of DSI. Much as I love the Tempest (and I do love it) the fact remains that there's still important features in the V1 manual that haven't been implemented and it took an online petition plus lobbying Roger Linn for them to implement many more. I do not trust a company that would launch a product without knowing for sure whether they can deliver it as specced. The fact that the Tempest was a difficult platform to develop for is irrelevant - they chose it!

If that opinion constitutes 'dick-swinging and posturing', well, so be it...
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Ackord on September 03, 2020, 12:15:06 AM
I believe it will increase in price, since it will become a Future classic through the years. Even if a new Tempest II comes out, that might change the game $ for a couple of months or some years; but after that I believe its price will always go up slowly.
 I Love mine... every week has gotten better with it for the last 2 years. Theres so much to explore and try.  I even Grabbed a second one last week, might sound crazy though I don't regret at all.
The best Drum machine off all AFTER the classic 909 808, this has Been and still is a new skool drum man... ahead of its time completely .
Title: Re: Tempest price increase / tempest future
Post by: Yorgos Arabatzis on September 03, 2020, 01:56:35 AM
So true man!Lucky for all of us ;)
Every day is a new day for me since grabbing mine in 2012!

I believe it will increase in price, since it will become a Future classic through the years. Even if a new Tempest II comes out, that might change the game $ for a couple of months or some years; but after that I believe its price will always go up slowly.
 I Love mine... every week has gotten better with it for the last 2 years. Theres so much to explore and try.  I even Grabbed a second one last week, might sound crazy though I don't regret at all.
The best Drum machine off all AFTER the classic 909 808, this has Been and still is a new skool drum man... ahead of its time completely .