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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Sequential Prophet X => Topic started by: Shaw on March 01, 2020, 09:50:34 AM

Title: Problem Transmitting Program Banks to the PX from Mac / SysEx Librarian
Post by: Shaw on March 01, 2020, 09:50:34 AM
I have already emailed Sequential support about this problem (see below), but as it's the weekend, I figured I would post here to see if anyone had encountered this problem and perhaps had a solution.


Thanks to the crew.


*************** original email to sequential support *************

Dear Sequential, 

My Prophet X seems to be unable to receive Program Banks.  I have tried SysEx Librarian and the SoundTower Prophet X editor.

I am on OS 2.2.  And using a Mac 10.14.2 with the latest version of SysEx Librarian.   And I am trying to load a program bank that I had originally transmitted and saved from my Prophet X -- this bank I am trying to load is a bank of programs that all reference samples in User Sample Bank 6.

Here's what happens:
When I transmit the bank...
1. sometimes the PX will receive a small number of programs (anywhere from 1 to 5) then stop receiving.  SysEx Librarian is still sending, bt the PX doesn't receive anything, or 
2. The prophet X will correctly receive a small number of programs like above, then appear to receive subsequent programs, but this programs don't reference the appropriate Samples.  For example, where a Program should load into the Instrument 1 slot "U6/15. Synth/M1_Matrix 2000", it will load nothing and display "F/1. Ambience/1.-------", or
3. absolutely nothing happens on the PX when I transmit a program bank from the Mac.

I've tried with 2 different USB cables in case that was the issue.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Shaw
Title: Re: Problem Transmitting Program Banks to the PX from Mac / SysEx Librarian
Post by: dbm on March 01, 2020, 01:31:21 PM
Possibly related... (or not...) PX Version 2.2.0.0

I just tried switching programs on the PX from its front panel, via USB with Local Control Off, and running through Logic Pro X. After a few changes, the PX seems to stop responding to all incoming MIDI over USB. Everything - notes, program change, etc.

Switch back to Local Control On, and front panel of PX works okay. Switch back to Local Control Off and no joy.

So go back to PX 2.1.1.0.0 and everything works as expected, just like before.

Something fishy about USB under PX 2.2.0.0
-----------------

Oops! Now same behavior with PX 2.1.1.0.0 -- looks like changing program too rapidly on the PX front panel, via local control off, over USB to echoed MIDI from Logic Pro X, causes the PX to stop responding to all further MIDI. Same behavior as seen with PX 2.2.0.0.

I see the MIDI being sent back the PX by watching MIDI Monitor. But the PX is deaf to all MIDI - program changes, notes, bank changes, etc.

So - going back to PX 2.2.0.0 and will take care not to change programs too rapidly...
------------------

Wow, it has been a while since trying to use the PX in anger. It has just become completely unusable from within Logic Pro X. It isn't just a matter of switching programs too quickly while Local Control is OFF and being echoed back from the DAW. It is a matter that some program changes cause the system to just go deaf thereafter. All incoming MIDI over USB becomes ignored. But you can play the synth as a standalone just fine, with Local Control ON.

I haven't yet tried a real MIDI interface instead of the USB port...

------------------------------
So here's what I know so far...

After some particular Program Changes, the USB MIDI IN port on the PX becomes deaf to all MIDI. The PX still transmits USB MIDI as usual, it just doesn't receive any USB MIDI IN, no matter the source - PX keyboard, external keyboard, recorded sequences. The PX remains responsive under Local Control.

Restarting the PX fixes the problem, until it arises again after some particular (as yet undetermined) program change.
Title: Re: Problem Transmitting Program Banks to the PX from Mac / SysEx Librarian
Post by: dbm on March 02, 2020, 04:10:15 AM
I updated the firmware to version 2.1.3.0.0 (beta) - same problems remain.

What I find is that, although the USB MIDI IN becomes deaf after some combination of kbob twists (currently only tested program change knob), the normal MIDI IN port remains responsive. All keyboard, wheel, and other knob twists continue to be sent out to MIDI USB OUT.

Furthermore, if I set LOCAL CONTROL = ALL OFF, then panel program change knob is not transmitted to MIDI USB OUT. But when LOCAL CONTROL = ON or Key/Wheels OFF, then program change is sent to MIDI USB OUT, and performs normally on the PX. (This seems backwards to me...)

Presumably, there are two consecutive or interleaved Program Change commands being sent to the PX machine when this happens, but it doesn't seem to bother the PX.

This smells distinctly like a software/firmware problem, and not any hardware problem. It behaves normally on power up, and only goes south after some combination of knob twisting on the PX. Seems almost like some infinite loop inside the PX machine gets triggered, or else some flag gets set and stuck, telling the PX to ignore USB MIDI IN.

I could swear that the original version of firmware behaved properly, but that was a while ago and I wasn't looking in detail at this particular behavior. I just know that I never observed any problematic behavior back then.

I also tried running through Ableton Live, instead of Logic Pro X, to make sure it wasn't something related to Logic Pro. No difference in behavior between the two DAWs. But I have also been monitoring the MIDI flow in MIDI Monitor all along, and I see the commands being sent to the PX (or not).
Title: Re: Problem Transmitting Program Banks to the PX from Mac / SysEx Librarian
Post by: Derek Cook on March 05, 2020, 11:26:30 AM
Hi,

I am in discussion with Sequential on the same issue with my px.factory librarian.

Out of interest, if you turn "MIDI Param Send" in Global Mode to either OFF or CC and then try do you get the same problem. I have found that if this parameter is set to NRPN I have the problem as you describe, but if set to CC or OFF it is fine.

I also found that downgrading the OS back to 2.1.0 helped (this was Sequential's suggestion to try).

Also we are not alone.... https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,3958.0.html

If you look at my post at the bottom of that thread you can see what I have diagnosed so far.

Which reminds, me I need to get back to Sequential on the ticket I have open on this!

I will add a link to this thread in the support ticket
Title: Re: Problem Transmitting Program Banks to the PX from Mac / SysEx Librarian
Post by: Shaw on March 05, 2020, 11:41:33 AM
Out of interest, if you turn "MIDI Param Send" in Global Mode to either OFF or CC and then try do you get the same problem. I have found that if this parameter is set to NRPN I have the problem as you describe, but if set to CC or OFF it is fine.


I will have to try that.


In my case, transferring program banks via MIDI DIN (instead of USB) and slowing the transfer rate allowed me to transfer preset banks. This was done at Sequential’s suggestion.  Carson was super responsive and helpful with this.  Hope this information is helpful to someone else.
Title: Re: Problem Transmitting Program Banks to the PX from Mac / SysEx Librarian
Post by: TracerAnalog on March 25, 2020, 02:19:56 PM
Hi,

I am in discussion with Sequential on the same issue with my px.factory librarian.

Out of interest, if you turn "MIDI Param Send" in Global Mode to either OFF or CC and then try do you get the same problem. I have found that if this parameter is set to NRPN I have the problem as you describe, but if set to CC or OFF it is fine.

I also found that downgrading the OS back to 2.1.0 helped (this was Sequential's suggestion to try).

Also we are not alone.... https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,3958.0.html

If you look at my post at the bottom of that thread you can see what I have diagnosed so far.

Which reminds, me I need to get back to Sequential on the ticket I have open on this!

I will add a link to this thread in the support ticket

I had the exact same problem, tried the suggested setting: both ‘MIDI param send’ and (for good measure) ‘MIDI param receive’ to ‘OFF’. After that I had no problem sending the sysex messages. Clearly a bug.
Title: Re: Problem Transmitting Program Banks to the PX from Mac / SysEx Librarian
Post by: Derek Cook on March 26, 2020, 10:47:32 AM
Hi,

I am in discussion with Sequential on the same issue with my px.factory librarian.

Out of interest, if you turn "MIDI Param Send" in Global Mode to either OFF or CC and then try do you get the same problem. I have found that if this parameter is set to NRPN I have the problem as you describe, but if set to CC or OFF it is fine.

I also found that downgrading the OS back to 2.1.0 helped (this was Sequential's suggestion to try).

Also we are not alone.... https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,3958.0.html

If you look at my post at the bottom of that thread you can see what I have diagnosed so far.

Which reminds, me I need to get back to Sequential on the ticket I have open on this!

I will add a link to this thread in the support ticket

I had the exact same problem, tried the suggested setting: both ‘MIDI param send’ and (for good measure) ‘MIDI param receive’ to ‘OFF’. After that I had no problem sending the sysex messages. Clearly a bug.

Thanks for conforming. I need to check this out against the latest OS update myself and also check to see if another reported problem has been fixed. Hopefully on the weekend....