The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Sequential Prophet X => Topic started by: Shaw on November 12, 2019, 03:18:10 PM
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This looks promising....
https://8dio.com/instrument/sequential-prophet-xxl-add-on-8-model-d/ (https://8dio.com/instrument/sequential-prophet-xxl-add-on-8-model-d/)
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Nice ! - the demos sound very good
Now there are only 2 packs left of what they have promised to release, the 1.juno 60 and 2.new deep samples piano
This they showcased in january - during namm i think
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I really hope they come out with a second wave of Add On Packs. None of these have really been that interesting to me save for the CP70. A lot of it felt redundant.
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I'm retracting my "this looks promising" comment -- 80mb spread across 8 instruments??? seriously?
The Moog Model F***ing D, and they do 80mb of samples? That's insulting to the instrument.
It's almost as if they did it because they felt like they had to....
Anyone have a Model D I can borrow? ;D
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I'm retracting my "this looks promising" comment -- 80mb spread across 8 instruments??? seriously?
The Moog Model F***ing D, and they do 80mb of samples? That's insulting to the instrument.
It's almost as if they did it because they felt like they had to....
Anyone have a Model D I can borrow? ;D
Hello,
unfoturnately ... i'm agree with you....
I'm afraid that once the contract that 8dio had promised finished, there will be no surprise ...
Each add on released is a little smaller ...
Indeed, maybe they just released them because it was necessary.
but .... we've got the LadyGaia's tool !!!!!!!
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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The size is very small yes, but the sound is great !
This is also reflected in the price of the pack as it is the cheapest pack as of now
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Isn't the whole add-on approach to synthesis contrary to the philosophy Dave Smith has promoted for years? He's often criticized the use of synthesizers to merely imitate traditional instruments. And now this add-on business, with the use of a synthesizer to imitate other iconic synthesizers? It's a shocking reversal.
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Isn't the whole add-on approach to synthesis contrary to the philosophy Dave Smith has promoted for years? He's often criticized the use of synthesizers to merely imitate traditional instruments. And now this add-on business, with the use of a synthesizer to imitate other iconic synthesizers? It's a shocking reversal.
For some of these kids, a Model D qualifies as a “traditional instrument”. :)
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Isn't the whole add-on approach to synthesis contrary to the philosophy Dave Smith has promoted for years? He's often criticized the use of synthesizers to merely imitate traditional instruments.
I can’t imagine using the Prophet X just to play back samples of other instruments unchanged, whether the origin is acoustic or synthesized. The whole appeal of the beast to me is having access to a wide array of raw aural textures that I can re-shape to my whim using a variety of means at my disposal. That’s what the filter, audio rate modulation, and other tools are there for.
It’s a matter of being able to carve something new out of found material, like a sculptor with a block of marble or granite, working with the shape and texture of what you have to fashion something new.
And now this add-on business, with the use of a synthesizer to imitate other iconic synthesizers? It's a shocking reversal.
I’m baffled by the parade of sampled synthesizer presets, too. What made more sense to me is adding variety to the palette of raw samples with material that is waiting to be shaped into something. The classic sawtooth wave is the perfect example. Presented raw, it’s not particularly appealing, but take a filter to it and suddenly you find there’s a wealth of harmonics to cut away and in ways that evolve over time. There are things you can’t do with a single low pass filter, though, and that’s where I’ve found it invaluable to have a variety of subtly different sawtooth waves from other synths - not because I’m trying to recreate their sound, but because it gives me variety.
The filter I’m using to reshape these core oscillator is likely very different from the original design, so I’m exploring new territory with just one sampled oscillator. Layer a second one from a different synth altogether, and carve into the sum of these waves, and I’m definitely somewhere unique. Now add organic sounds to the palette: the sound of surf instead of white noise, or capture the unique attack of a bow hitting strings captured in stereo for some subtle binaural cues, and blend that into a synthesized wave and I’m taking the core concept of the Roland D50 into new territory, too. It’s not limited to recreation but works well for exploration.
If you look at the factory samples of the Prophet X you see much more of this mindset, and I would expect that’s where Dave had more influence. Presumably 8Dio is making their own decisions when it comes to Add On content now, and it’s much less diverse than what was hinted at by the ad copy posted when the instrument was revealed. That’s their prerogative, of course, but it isn’t what I was looking forward to the most.
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How there isn’t a Prophet 2000 sample pack is mind boggling.
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I'm not criticizing the general idea of add-ons. It's unavoidable, I suppose, since everything in this field is bound to be tried. Plus, this really is just one variation on the hybrid theme. My point is only that I'm shocked to see it from Sequential, from Dave Smith himself, who can be heard in countless interviews criticizing the idea of using synthesizers primarily to imitate other instruments. I've come to appreciate that view, and it's one of the reasons I've long felt at home with the DSI/Sequential musical-sonic philosophy. But I've marveled many times when looking at the company's website, with its multiplying add-ons. I mean, an ARP 2600 add-on from Dave Smith? Really?!
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I'm not criticizing the general idea of add-ons. It's unavoidable, I suppose, since everything in this field is bound to be tried. Plus, this really is just one variation on the hybrid theme. My point is only that I'm shocked to see it from Sequential, from Dave Smith himself, who can be heard in countless interviews criticizing the idea of using synthesizers primarily to imitate other instruments. I've come to appreciate that view, and it's one of the reasons I've long felt at home with the DSI/Sequential musical-sonic philosophy. But I've marveled many times when looking at the company's website, with its multiplying add-ons. I mean, an ARP 2600 add-on from Dave Smith? Really?!
It is from 8dio, not from dave smith ! - that is quite clear my friend. Plus it sounds good so i see no problem with this...
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Hi,
As a new Prophet X user with plenty of sample playback/ROMPLER capability in my sonic arsenal (Kronos, Montage, Kontakt) , I thought I'd add my perspective as a new Sequential owner. :)
Why did I go for the X instead of other models? I did agonise over whether or not I was better off with a P12 compared to the X, but in the end went for the X on the basis of the one good YouTube demo that I found (shocking that there are so few good demos) and the Sound on Sound Review, which emphasised that the sample engine is not meant to b a ROMPLER replacement, but a way for introducing different sonic material for treatment. I also figured that if I wanted a four OSC monster patch, then there must be some single cycle waveforms that can go into the sample engine.
My experience with the Yamaha EX5 community (I have had an EX5 since 1999) also taught me that you can use samples, even of obvious instruments in ways they were never intended. For example, a dear friend of mine made an excellent classical guitar patch for the EX5 called "Dark and Grey" (guess the song/artist! ;) ). He used a cello sample on a velocity switched layer to emulate string squeak hen you dug into the note! Listening to it, you would never have guessed that it was a cello sample, but it gave the patch realism that it would not have had without it. So I think an X gives me far more options to explore (once I get to know it) compared to just a pure oscillator only Prophet.
The other subjective thing that swung it for me is that Gordon Reid in the Sound on Sound Interview (who I respect a lot) was extolling the virtues of the new filters as being closer to the REV1/2 Prophets. And finally, I thought that if I am splurging out for a Prophet, I might as well aim for the flagship model that will keep me interested for years to come.
Sadly in the two weeks I have had it, I have had little time for music, but what time I have spent with it, always leaves me impressed.
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The other subjective thing that swung it for me is that Gordon Reid in the Sound on Sound Interview (who I respect a lot) was extolling the virtues of the new filters as being closer to the REV1/2 Prophets.
The SSM2040 was the filter chip used in the aforementioned Prophets. The P6 filter is based off that design, except it's discrete (which should add even more to the analogness). The SSM2044 chip that the PX filter is based off has a different topology from what I gather. It was used in some of the sample-based classics by E-mu (due to Dave Rossum), which no doubt made the SSI2144 version a good candidate when it came time to choose.
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I suppose there can be a paradox of sorts having a lot of "samples" on hand. I mean does it become a burden at some point to your creative flow sorting thru thousands of samples? For me, I have no sampler capability, but probably a few thousand homemade patches saved all over my various instruments. I track them with an excel spread sheet. Sometimes when I need a violin or a bell for example, I just reach for previous work and finesse it a bit, so that's handy. I guess I get it.
I don't think I would care about obtaining samples of subtractive synths if you already have a subtractive synth in front of you. But then, I probably couldn't tell a Model D sample from any other synth for that matter. So all these synth sample packs seem sort of redundant to me. I see the value in sampling something that is not easily mimicked on a synth or where you want the exact sound.
There is simply more and more a blurring of the lines between synthesis and sampling now, DSI/Sequential surely must have intended that outcome with the PX. Maybe Sequential is even leading the pack a bit in that regard with their PX. I've heard some pretty patch combos come off that instrument, which is cool, but I'm also sad that the the romanticism of the traditional synth era may be coming to a close.
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Hi, when I try to add a new library (in this case The Moog Source) via the global menu, I get a warning that some files (9906 MB) gonna be overwritten. I already have installed a few 8DIO synth packs and the free memory is enough, so is this like a bug or what does it exactly mean?
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Hi, when I try to add a new library (in this case The Moog Source) via the global menu, I get a warning that some files (9906 MB) gonna be overwritten. I already have installed a few 8DIO synth packs and the free memory is enough, so is this like a bug or what does it exactly mean?
Whenever you install new samples they will only overwrite ones in the same bank (never a problem with 8Dio samples that all have their own a unique bank.) The samples must also be in the same category with the same sample number to be overwritten.
The Prophet X has never been great at estimating what you will overwrite. It used to show you the combined size of everything in the bank you were installing to, but as of recent betas it has started showing the combined size of all installed samples. So the message is pretty meaningless at this point and can be ignored - it serves only to warn you that there are situations where you might overwrite samples.
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Thank you Lady Gaia. Oh wow 1 GB of miscalculation is not nothing. :o
In instrument slot 33 I have a big list of errors, so I want to delete this certain add on bank. I think it was wrongly installed at some point when I tried to install multipe add ons. I don't see a delete/erase library function?
I don't want to format the whole user space, because I first have to copy every single add on from my computer to the px folder of my USB stick (this can take long time), then add library via global menue to the Prophet X, after this process I have to delete the add on from the stick and copy the next library into the px folder. Would make sense to copy more than 1 add on library to the px folder, but sadly at the moment multiple add ons can't be installed from one USB stick.
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In instrument slot 33 I have a big list of errors, so I want to delete this certain add on bank. I think it was wrongly installed at some point when I tried to install multipe add ons. I don't see a delete/erase library function?
Global > Manage Samples lets you see how much space each bank occupies and you can delete one bank at a time (but nothing more fine-grained than that - you can't remove just one Instrument.)
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Ok, I did not know that sample management equals library management. I see user sample slots range from 1-32, while purchased Libraries start with 33. What makes the difference for the PX if a library is bought or user created? Even if a slot (or is it instrument? place? sample bank?) is empty, it let's me delete it. So I extra deleted every unused single slot per hand, just to make sure. Some terms/functions within the Prophet X are quite widely used and talked about, while others are nearly never mentioned at all. Thank you for the help.
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I see user sample slots range from 1-32, while purchased Libraries start with 33. What makes the difference for the PX if a library is bought or user created?
The Add On banks are specifically reserved for 8Dio content as far as I'm aware. It simplifies things for their libraries since they'll never have to worry about whether something is already installed in a given bank (unless they wind up offering more than 32 banks of additional samples.) It also makes it easy for them to provide corresponding presets since the location the required samples will be in is something they determine in advance.
The User banks have recently been expanded from only 8 when the Prophet X first shipped. It may well be that Sequential underestimated the amount of interest from some users in creating and using their own samples. Here's where you need to be more careful because two different users may well create samples independently and choose to use the same bank when they make them available to others. Indeed any other commercial vendor, such as Goldbaby who offers a rather nice set of PPG samples for sale, also winds up installing into the User banks and there's the some potential for conflict.
It's easy enough to change what bank samples will be installed in. Just rename the right directory on your USB storage device while it's still attached to your computer (where u00 represents User bank 1, u01 represents bank 2, and so forth through u31 representing bank 32.) It gets more complicated when there are presets made available because they won't point to the right location for samples if you've changed where they're installed. Some folks, like our @Shaw here with his Replicants library, make multiple versions of their presets available corresponding to different banks you might have installed the samples in.
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Another thing to get right is 8DIO updates themselves start with number 00 (last prophet), 01, 02 etc while the purchased slots in my PX start with 01, 02 and so on. Not speaking of every 1st sample place being empty in every instrument group (but this is normal behaviour).
I've installed Jupiter 4 update in my next free purchase slot number 6 and it showed size 0 MB after installation, whereas it should be over 1GB. All other add on libraries (1-5) show their correct corresponding sizes. The install process seemed flawless, and when I go to group section I see add on 1-6 can be selected. To make sure everything is right before I'll add the Moog Prodigy library to purchased place 7 I erased the JP4 add on and installed it again, but it keeps saying size is 0MB. Is this also a common issue of the PX's bad size guessing?