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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Sequential Prophet X => Topic started by: Nokki on July 08, 2019, 08:18:45 AM

Title: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Nokki on July 08, 2019, 08:18:45 AM
First of all, I would like to express my extream gratitude to all of you, this community is amazing :)

I have all the 8Dio add on packs (6 packs currently) and I have downloaded everything from Lady Gaia, the sample repository and Goldbaby.

These are all very good in my opinion, the T8 and CP70 are probably the least exciting of these packs, but still good.
With all of the above installed I have about 2GB of available space left, sure one could go and pick and choose what to leave in the machine and the Deckardsís dream pack is rather big but also extremely well done so I rather not delete anything of these offerings if possible.

The Big Question:
Does anybody have any idea if it is possible to add another SSD or if an upgrade is possible to a bigger SSD in the Prophet X??
Would be a dream to have all your sample library in the prophet X and also have space for add ons for the foreseeable future.

I am aware that this has been discussed on this forum before but at the time it was just a future issue, I am sure I am not the only one running out of space at the moment

In this video on minute 3:57 we can see 3 additional ports similar to the one the SSD is connected to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8QDCocnt0M


List of available add ons for the Prophet X as of writing this post:

8dio (https://8dio.com/)
1-Prophet 5
2-CP70
3-ARP 2600
4-Oberheim OBX
5-Sequential Circuits T8
6- Jupiter 4

Lady Gaia (http://www.thinkersnacks.com/)
Neutron
OB6
Moog Voyager
Erebus
Oscillator Stacks

Gold Baby (http://www.goldbaby.co.nz/)
PPG Wave

Prophet X sample Repository (http://modulatable.com/Repository/)
Deckards Dream
Luigi waves
Marks Mellotron

Best,
Nokki

Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: laurentluigi on July 08, 2019, 08:56:59 AM
And there is more to come!!
I'm going to use LadyGaia utility.
I already send some stuff to Mr Shaw.
Even if the quality is not the same as Deckard or Mellotron....!!!

Bye everyone!

Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Lady Gaia on July 08, 2019, 09:33:52 AM
I'm delighted to see the community that is growing up around the Prophet X.  The wide range of sampled content available, commercial and freely shared, is wonderfully inspiring.  Thanks to everyone who has stepped up, and to those who will in future.

Thanks especially to BLewis and Alan got the ball rolling by providing all of the raw samples in the VCO Pack (there's actually one more download in addition to the four listed above: the Oscillator Stack instruments blend seven oscillators from the DSI Evolver + Prophet 6 + Moog Voyager + Moog Mother-32 in a monster stereo configuration.)

... and of course to Dave Smith and Sequential for bringing us the Prophet X in the first place.  I've been intrigued by the potential of a modern hybrid instrument and have thoroughly enjoyed getting to know their creation.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on July 08, 2019, 10:33:13 PM
An excellent question!

I have been holding back a bit as I can see the available space within the 50 Gbytes rapidly decreasing. It would be really great if Sequential could provide an upgrade kit of some sorts. I can easily see myself using 10 times as much space .........

From my side also a great thank  :) you to all so far who have been, in their own time, creating the great patch management tools and patch packs for the P X.


Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: XCX on September 02, 2019, 03:57:04 PM
Any updates on hard drive space?
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Nokki on September 02, 2019, 06:56:29 PM
If it will be, then it will be a replacement drive not a additional drive. - regardless I know we would all upgrade :)
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: station2station on September 20, 2019, 07:32:19 AM
Unsure how the Prophet X OS (firmware) addresses the SSD structure but it seems like a no-brainer.  If it's limited in the OS, more than likely just a parameter they can edit in future firmware.  But I doubt there is a limitation. 

Limitations on drive size in the past were simply due to formatting structure such as the limitations of FAT/FAT32/NTFS/Journaled... 

The difference between the included 200GB SSD and a 500GB-1TB larger drive isn't limited by any formatting that I'm aware of.  I think the Prophet would address a larger drive with no issues (no guarantee though)

The first gotcha I would see is that you would want to get your Prophet's 150gb stock drive's 8DIO sample data onto the new larger drive - so you'd need to pull the 150gb drive and create that image on your Mac/PC.  You'd need a computer that can address 2 SSD's; the boot drive your computer is booting from and the Prophet drive you are imaging.  ...

...not impossible but I have 2 iMacs and a MacBook Pro so I couldn't do it here at my studio.  None of my computers have a multi-drive data bus. I would have to get some thunderbolt external drive enclosure.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Lady Gaia on September 20, 2019, 08:14:33 AM
Right.  I think logistically and license-wise it's a much bigger challenge than from a pure implementation standpoint.  Likely as not, it would have to involve exchanging SSDs through Sequential rather than a do-it-yourself solution.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: station2station on September 20, 2019, 04:26:11 PM
Right.  I think logistically and license-wise it's a much bigger challenge than from a pure implementation standpoint.  Likely as not, it would have to involve exchanging SSDs through Sequential rather than a do-it-yourself solution.

Is the data on the drive licensed somehow? I know the RTU license of the 8DIO samples are included with he purchase of the keyboard.  But is there some weird auth stuff going on behind the scenes?  Because Im holding a 1TB SSD in my hand which is physically identical to the 200gb in the Prophet X.  Just gotta move the data over as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on September 20, 2019, 04:32:08 PM
Right.  I think logistically and license-wise it's a much bigger challenge than from a pure implementation standpoint.  Likely as not, it would have to involve exchanging SSDs through Sequential rather than a do-it-yourself solution.

Is the data on the drive licensed somehow? I know the RTU license of the 8DIO samples are included with he purchase of the keyboard.  But is there some weird auth stuff going on behind the scenes?  Because Im holding a 1TB SSD in my hand which is physically identical to the 200gb in the Prophet X.  Just gotta move the data over as far as I can tell.
Canít wait to see the results of this experiment. 
I suppose if it didnít work, you could just replace the original hard drive and carry on.

Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: station2station on September 21, 2019, 06:21:28 AM
Right.  I think logistically and license-wise it's a much bigger challenge than from a pure implementation standpoint.  Likely as not, it would have to involve exchanging SSDs through Sequential rather than a do-it-yourself solution.

Is the data on the drive licensed somehow? I know the RTU license of the 8DIO samples are included with he purchase of the keyboard.  But is there some weird auth stuff going on behind the scenes?  Because Im holding a 1TB SSD in my hand which is physically identical to the 200gb in the Prophet X.  Just gotta move the data over as far as I can tell.
Canít wait to see the results of this experiment. 
I suppose if it didnít work, you could just replace the original hard drive and carry on.

I would hope someone from Sequential would hop in here and stop this crazy train if it were a bad idea :)
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on September 21, 2019, 06:42:58 AM
Right.  I think logistically and license-wise it's a much bigger challenge than from a pure implementation standpoint.  Likely as not, it would have to involve exchanging SSDs through Sequential rather than a do-it-yourself solution.

Is the data on the drive licensed somehow? I know the RTU license of the 8DIO samples are included with he purchase of the keyboard.  But is there some weird auth stuff going on behind the scenes?  Because Im holding a 1TB SSD in my hand which is physically identical to the 200gb in the Prophet X.  Just gotta move the data over as far as I can tell.
Canít wait to see the results of this experiment. 
I suppose if it didnít work, you could just replace the original hard drive and carry on.

I would hope someone from Sequential would hop in here and stop this crazy train if it were a bad idea :)
I suppose the primary question is: how would you duplicate the drive?
And where did you buy the 1TB SSD?
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: station2station on September 21, 2019, 08:00:41 AM
I would hope someone from Sequential would hop in here and stop this crazy train if it were a bad idea :)
I suppose the primary question is: how would you duplicate the drive?
And where did you buy the 1TB SSD?
Yep, regarding duplication you'd need a desktop computer with multiple SATA cables, or a laptop with a thunderbolt external drive enclosure that deals with 2.5" SSD drives.  Then just mirror the drive using a utility.

You can get the SSD's anywhere. Microcenter in this case.  Sequential uses a (discontinued) 2.5" Intel 240GB SSD in the Prophet X.  1 terabyte 2.5mm SSD drives are in the $250-300 range.

I'm not out of space so Im not the guy about to do this, sorry to say.  I was just speaking to the topic in general. Again, I would hope someone from Sequential would step in if this is a bad idea due to some type of size-read restrictions built into the firmware.

This is the exact brand and drive Sequential uses: 

https://www.newegg.com/intel-dc-s4500-240gb/p/1Z4-009F-00026
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on September 21, 2019, 08:23:15 AM
I'm not out of space so Im not the guy about to do this, sorry to say.
Should I send you some samples?   ;D
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on September 21, 2019, 01:23:43 PM
Hmmmm. Interesting dd (sector for sector direct copy) Intel drive to a 1 or more TByte SSD. Check the partitioning and/or filesystem on the new drive. Adjust partition table and/or extend filesystem to fill all space on new SSD.

If Sequential has used a common filesystem (vfat, ext4, xfs .....) technically this should be rather straightforward. Real issue will be how the P X operating system will deal with the new device and extended space at boot time. If the OS is based on a recent Linux kernel, I don't see any problem.

Not saying I will try this. But the idea is fascinating.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on September 21, 2019, 02:02:14 PM
Hmmmm. Interesting dd (sector for sector direct copy) Intel drive to a 1 or more TByte SSD. Check the partitioning and/or filesystem on the new drive. Adjust partition table and/or extend filesystem to fill all space on new SSD.

If Sequential has used a common filesystem (vfat, ext4, xfs .....) technically this should be rather straightforward. Real issue will be how the P X operating system will deal with the new device and extended space at boot time. If the OS is based on a recent Linux kernel, I don't see any problem.

Not saying I will try this. But the idea is fascinating.


You certainly sound like the guy with the "know how"... how about I send you the hard drive, and you try it?!?!?!?


 ;D
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: station2station on September 21, 2019, 06:31:00 PM
DS/Sequential may not speak up one way or another.  If they say it's doable, they will have a bunch of marginally qualified owners bricking their prophet X's.

By saying nothing they may be ok with the technically savvy owners getting away with it.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on September 21, 2019, 11:03:39 PM
I haven't opened my P X yet. Obviously I am somewhat reluctant to mod a Ä3500 beautifully designed instrument.

Does any of you guys know how easy it is to remove / replace the SSD physically?

Are the SATA connectors standard? Including the power connector.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on September 21, 2019, 11:12:43 PM
You certainly sound like the guy with the "know how"... how about I send you the hard drive, and you try it?!?!?!?


 ;D
I've been building my own desktops and servers from of the shelve components since the eighties.

Thanks for the offer  :), there is no need.

 I'm about to order a new Mini-ITX AMD based set of components this week. To replace my old aging energy inefficient servers.

I'll throw a set 1 TByte SSDs in anyway.

Edit: removed redundant quote in quote tags.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: station2station on September 22, 2019, 06:49:33 AM
I haven't opened my P X yet. Obviously I am somewhat reluctant to mod a Ä3500 beautifully designed instrument.

Does any of you guys know how easy it is to remove / replace the SSD physically?

Are the SATA connectors standard? Including the power connector.

Yes, the SSD pinout is completely standard.  It's basically a PC in there.  Even the motherboard is an off-the-shelf gaming/home theater component unit widely available.  Note the various unused serial ports as well as 1/8th inch audio I/o in orange and blue colors.

At the most fundamental level, the Prophet X is a PC-based sample playback computer with an SSD full of 8DIO samples, routed to a synthesis board designed by Dave Smith with analog filter architecture designed by Dave Rassum.  I would wager it's running a common Linux OS distribution and the SSD is partitioned allowing 150gb for 8DIO, 50gb user partition, and a 40gb OS area (or less) .  This is why it's critical to mirror the factory SSD to the new one. 

Don't ge the wrong.  This isn't SIMPLY a PC.  The genius is in that synthesis/filter board.  No shame in the off-the-shelf PC components being used for the basic tasks.  Acceptable in fact.  No need to re-invent the wheel. 

Here is what you will see if you crack your unit (courtesy of Monty):

Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on September 22, 2019, 09:19:11 AM
Yes, the SSD pinout is completely standard.  It's basically a PC in there.  Even the motherboard is an off-the-shelf gaming/home theater component unit widely available.  Note the various unused serial ports as well as 1/8th inch audio I/o in orange and blue colors.

At the most fundamental level, the Prophet X is a PC-based sample playback computer with an SSD full of 8DIO samples, routed to a synthesis board designed by Dave Smith with analog filter architecture designed by Dave Rassum.  I would wager it's running a common Linux OS distribution and the SSD is partitioned allowing 150gb for 8DIO, 50gb user partition, and a 40gb OS area (or less) .  This is why it's critical to mirror the factory SSD to the new one. 

Don't ge the wrong.  This isn't SIMPLY a PC.  The genius is in that synthesis/filter board.  No shame in the off-the-shelf PC components being used for the basic tasks.  Acceptable in fact.  No need to re-invent the wheel. 

Here is what you will see if you crack your unit (courtesy of Monty):
OK very clear standard ASRock J3455-ITY board, probably a Celeron CPU as there is no fan. I don't see any other storage device, so the whole system boots from the SSD. That means the boot sector will also have to be copied of the Intel SSD (dd can do that of course).

I will order the parts for my new system later this week after I have asked my supplier to check my order.

Regarding the partitioning did you confirm this or is this conjecture? The 50 Gbyte limit might also be "hard-coded" into the firmware/bootstrap. In that case there isn't much point to this exercise of course  :).

In the meantime I have loaded a great church organ sample, dual layered, at very high quality into my P X. This sample, across the keyboard is more than 500Mbytes. I want to load a few more church organ samples (using different stops and registers), so I will be filling up the 50Gbytes pretty darn quick. I need to experiment a bit more with these samples as there might not be any point in multi-layering it, saving disk space.

But it sounds so so great! And having that sample available to mangle and modify, wow.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Lady Gaia on September 22, 2019, 01:13:21 PM
Yes, the SSD pinout is completely standard.  It's basically a PC in there.

There is a pretty standard PC motherboard, but as you note it's just the starting point.  Note just the analog side of things, but also digital processing including the use of an FPGA makes this a pretty heavily customized design.  The SSD may be off-the-shelf but there's no guarantee that it uses a familiar partitioning scheme or filesystem format.  In fact, I can't really see a compelling reason for it to do so.

Quote
I would wager it's running a common Linux OS distribution and the SSD is partitioned allowing 150gb for 8DIO, 50gb user partition, and a 40gb OS area (or less) .  This is why it's critical to mirror the factory SSD to the new one.

The operating system is much smaller and is stored in Flash memory alongside user and factory presets, if I remember correctly from the experience of those who had to swap their SSD with a factory replacement.  You'd have to image a replacement, but I'd be willing to bet that in doing so you're also copying information on the drive about how much free space there is - and wouldn't gain anything.

Any extra space beyond the 150GB + 50GB on the factory drive is likely used to aid in wear leveling (you can only write to a given cell in Flash a certain number of times before it wears out, and with 150GB already reserved is helps to spread the remaining writes out across more physical space than the unit advertises.)
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on September 22, 2019, 01:51:18 PM
Yes, the SSD pinout is completely standard.  It's basically a PC in there.

There is a pretty standard PC motherboard, but as you note it's just the starting point.  Note just the analog side of things, but also digital processing including the use of an FPGA makes this a pretty heavily customized design.  The SSD may be off-the-shelf but there's no guarantee that it uses a familiar partitioning scheme or filesystem format.  In fact, I can't really see a compelling reason for it to do so.

Quote
I would wager it's running a common Linux OS distribution and the SSD is partitioned allowing 150gb for 8DIO, 50gb user partition, and a 40gb OS area (or less) .  This is why it's critical to mirror the factory SSD to the new one.

The operating system is much smaller and is stored in Flash memory alongside user and factory presets, if I remember correctly from the experience of those who had to swap their SSD with a factory replacement.  You'd have to image a replacement, but I'd be willing to bet that in doing so you're also copying information on the drive about how much free space there is - and wouldn't gain anything.

Any extra space beyond the 150GB + 50GB on the factory drive is likely used to aid in wear leveling (you can only write to a given cell in Flash a certain number of times before it wears out, and with 150GB already reserved is helps to spread the remaining writes out across more physical space than the unit advertises.)
The motherboard is standard, using X86 architecture. Therefore it must use a bootstrap process that is compatible with this architecture. A legace MBR (Master Boot Record) or more modern UEFI boot environment which then bootstraps the rest of the system. Given the P X startup time my guess is a small Linux kernel that initializes a simple real-time environment to interface between the FGPAs, the rest of the system and storage. Perhaps some processing is also done by the X86 board.

How it interfaces with the rest of the system (FPGAs) is a different matter of course.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Lady Gaia on September 22, 2019, 03:25:55 PM
The motherboard is standard, using X86 architecture. Therefore it must use a bootstrap process that is compatible with this architecture. A legace MBR (Master Boot Record) or more modern UEFI boot environment which then bootstraps the rest of the system.

Sure, but there's nothing demanding that the SSD be the system disk, and as noted above I believe that it is not.  My FreeNAS uses a similar configuration (and indeed I believe the same motherboard supplier), and it boots the OS from Flash just like I suspect the Prophet X does.  That would mean the SSD can be exposed as a raw device to be formatted in any manner of Sequential's choosing.  They might have chosen to use a familiar filesystem for ease of implementation, or they might have rolled their own to optimize for their specific usage patterns.  There's not much evidence one way or another.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: station2station on September 22, 2019, 05:53:44 PM
The motherboard is standard, using X86 architecture. Therefore it must use a bootstrap process that is compatible with this architecture. A legace MBR (Master Boot Record) or more modern UEFI boot environment which then bootstraps the rest of the system.

Sure, but there's nothing demanding that the SSD be the system disk, and as noted above I believe that it is not.  My FreeNAS uses a similar configuration (and indeed I believe the same motherboard supplier), and it boots the OS from Flash just like I suspect the Prophet X does.  That would mean the SSD can be exposed as a raw device to be formatted in any manner of Sequential's choosing.  They might have chosen to use a familiar filesystem for ease of implementation, or they might have rolled their own to optimize for their specific usage patterns.  There's not much evidence one way or another.

I agree with everything we are tossing around.  All the aforementioned potentials are in play...

Except I guarantee they are using standard disk formatting..  I don't see a reason Sequential would decide to roll their own disk formatting structure.  That would be akin to deciding to use a different voltage.  This would be such an unnecessary battle  - heck if they're using a common system board and likely a Linux distro, they are just using a ext4 or ext3.

Anyway, you guys are bird dogging this one well.  I'll keep an eye one it.  Looks like Gerry might be close to pulling his disk and running fdisk against it. (or some disk utility.  THAT will be enlightening.)
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: composerjk on September 23, 2019, 07:48:05 AM
The operating system on the Prophet X/XL is QNX. I believe the filesystem is the QNX Power-Safe filesystem. fyi.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on September 23, 2019, 11:07:37 AM
The operating system on the Prophet X/XL is QNX. I believe the filesystem is the QNX Power-Safe filesystem. fyi.
OK that makes a lot of sense, COW file system of choice ;-)

I'll check how easy it is to adjust this file system. I see if I can get some help from some old colleagues working in the "ultimate embedded" systems company here in the Netherlands.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Lady Gaia on September 23, 2019, 11:42:13 AM
OK that makes a lot of sense, COW file system of choice ;-)

Pfft.  Give me ZFS any day. ;)

For an embedded system, a QNX foundation makes a lot of sense and knowing that itís a documented format makes this endeavor a little more practical sounding.  Iíll sit on the sidelines for a change of pace while others do some digging, but Iíll be curious to hear whether thereís a promising path for expanding the storage available.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: station2station on September 23, 2019, 05:23:06 PM
OK that makes a lot of sense, COW file system of choice ;-)

Pfft.  Give me ZFS any day. ;)

For an embedded system, a QNX foundation makes a lot of sense and knowing that itís a documented format makes this endeavor a little more practical sounding.  Iíll sit on the sidelines for a change of pace while others do some digging, but Iíll be curious to hear whether thereís a promising path for expanding the storage available.

I'll sit with you...
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on September 24, 2019, 10:41:50 PM
Interestingly enough, most of us "hard drive curious" folks are likely out of the warranty period on our Prophet X's... not that that means anyone wants to brick their synth, but at least we don't void a warranty by opening her up and having a nosey around a bit.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: composerjk on September 25, 2019, 06:29:46 AM
Interestingly enough, most of us "hard drive curious" folks are likely out of the warranty period on our Prophet X's... not that that means anyone wants to brick their synth, but at least we don't void a warranty by opening her up and having a nosey around a bit.

Opening up the Prophet XL was one of the things I did early on after obtaining it, earlier this year, partially to make sure I had a backup.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on September 29, 2019, 11:06:37 AM
Interestingly enough, most of us "hard drive curious" folks are likely out of the warranty period on our Prophet X's... not that that means anyone wants to brick their synth, but at least we don't void a warranty by opening her up and having a nosey around a bit.

Opening up the Prophet XL was one of the things I did early on after obtaining it, earlier this year, partially to make sure I had a backup.
How did you go about making a backup?
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: composerjk on September 30, 2019, 11:01:07 AM
Interestingly enough, most of us "hard drive curious" folks are likely out of the warranty period on our Prophet X's... not that that means anyone wants to brick their synth, but at least we don't void a warranty by opening her up and having a nosey around a bit.

Opening up the Prophet XL was one of the things I did early on after obtaining it, earlier this year, partially to make sure I had a backup.
How did you go about making a backup?

First time was using the old Unix dd(1) command to copy the raw disk to another disk. More recently, I used an external disk duplicator. Some of the boxes intended for temporarily connecting an internal drive via USB have multiple slots and can attempt duplication to a disk that's at least the same size plugged into it without being connected to a computer. In both cases, it requires physically removing the drive, of course. And, if you do this, make sure to be careful when specifying the source and destination drives so as not to accidentally overwrite your original drive.

Hopefully, someday, there'll be an option to backup the drive to a USB connected drive from the keyboard, itself. That would be useful.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on October 13, 2019, 10:34:27 AM
Quick update on progress. I have assembled the new AMD based server. CentOS 8 installed flawlessly from USB stick and the extra 1Tbyte SATA SSD has arrived.

Unfortunately I have ran out of time, work is taking op all my time including weekends. The next two weeks I will be occupied with work and will be traveling. I will report back in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on October 13, 2019, 10:35:23 AM
Interestingly enough, most of us "hard drive curious" folks are likely out of the warranty period on our Prophet X's... not that that means anyone wants to brick their synth, but at least we don't void a warranty by opening her up and having a nosey around a bit.

Opening up the Prophet XL was one of the things I did early on after obtaining it, earlier this year, partially to make sure I had a backup.
How did you go about making a backup?

First time was using the old Unix dd(1) command to copy the raw disk to another disk. More recently, I used an external disk duplicator. Some of the boxes intended for temporarily connecting an internal drive via USB have multiple slots and can attempt duplication to a disk that's at least the same size plugged into it without being connected to a computer. In both cases, it requires physically removing the drive, of course. And, if you do this, make sure to be careful when specifying the source and destination drives so as not to accidentally overwrite your original drive.

Hopefully, someday, there'll be an option to backup the drive to a USB connected drive from the keyboard, itself. That would be useful.
Yep using the dd command routinely almost, no confusing the ins and the outs ;-)
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on November 03, 2019, 09:55:38 AM
Latest update: successfully made backup copies of Prophet X 250 (224) GByte Intel SSD to local disk image and to a fresh 1Tbyte SSD. There are two partitions installed IDs b1 and b3; 245 Mbytes and 223.3 Gbytes respectively.

I put my Prophet X back together with the original SSD for the time being so I can make some music with it ;-). The guts of the P X are very well designed and fit nicely together, impressive and very easy to get to and to repair if needed.

I am trying to work out access to the QNX file system so I can extend it. Currently my strategy is to run an old QNX version (it was open sourced once a long time ago) under CentOS 8 KVM and try to give it access to the Prophet X image and/or 1 TByte SSD.

Now I have ran out of time, but I will keep trying later this week. The QNX 6.3.0 ISO image won't boot beyond the "Hit Esc for .altboot.............." message. I am running Qemu/KVM in 486 mode, also tried kvm32 but no luck yet.

When I have time again I will investigate deeper.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on November 08, 2019, 04:55:54 PM
Latest update: successfully made backup copies of Prophet X 250 (224) GByte Intel SSD to local disk image and to a fresh 1Tbyte SSD. There are two partitions installed IDs b1 and b3; 245 Mbytes and 223.3 Gbytes respectively.

I put my Prophet X back together with the original SSD for the time being so I can make some music with it ;-). The guts of the P X are very well designed and fit nicely together, impressive and very easy to get to and to repair if needed.

I am trying to work out access to the QNX file system so I can extend it. Currently my strategy is to run an old QNX version (it was open sourced once a long time ago) under CentOS 8 KVM and try to give it access to the Prophet X image and/or 1 TByte SSD.

Now I have ran out of time, but I will keep trying later this week. The QNX 6.3.0 ISO image won't boot beyond the "Hit Esc for .altboot.............." message. I am running Qemu/KVM in 486 mode, also tried kvm32 but no luck yet.

When I have time again I will investigate deeper.
Sounds like progress... please keep us posted.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Antti on November 11, 2019, 08:04:49 AM
Note just the analog side of things, but also digital processing including the use of an FPGA makes this a pretty heavily customized design.

FWIW, the FPGA almost certainly acts only as an interface between the quad core 1.5 GHz x86 cpu and the analog parts (basically a 16 channel audio interface + control of the various CVs). When you have that kind of processing power in the cpu itself, there is no point in trying to do too much on the FPGA (huge development effort for little gain).
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on November 13, 2019, 07:11:57 AM
Update for last week/weekend:

I decided to see if I could boot a 64bit VM directly from the disk image of the Prophet X SSD. I made several backup copies: sda1 and sda2 separately and a copy of sda (the whole disk from beginning to end). Of course I also copied the MBR (Master Boot Record) separately just in case.

1. Booting from the sda image and giving sda2 to the VM is possible but the system doesn't get past the message that it cannot detect block devices.
2. Booting from the sda image is possible but same error, block device cannot be detected
3. I copied (dd) the sda image directly to an attached 1 TByte SSD and attached the SSD to the virtual machine to boot from the drive. Same result, boot process starts till it fails to detect block devices.

There is progress but it goes slow. I have many more options to explore. I want to figure out exactly the SATA controller type on the Prophet X PC board. It is clear that QNX has difficulty detecting the correct controller / disk combination.

I will keep you all posted.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on November 24, 2019, 10:00:57 PM
Update for last week/weekend: unfortunately I did not manage to put any time aside for either music creation/recording as working on the QNX image. I am counting on life to slow down a bit in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Gerry Havinga on December 07, 2019, 12:20:37 AM
My mother passed away yesterday. Peacefully in her sleep fortunately.

I will not be doing any experimentation for the next week or so.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: laurentluigi on December 07, 2019, 01:39:52 AM
sincere condolences.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: jg666 on December 07, 2019, 03:28:15 AM
Condolences and best wishes from me too.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Lady Gaia on December 07, 2019, 03:30:36 AM
I'm so sorry to hear that, Gerry.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on December 07, 2019, 06:18:38 AM
My sincere condolences to you and your family. May her blessed soul Rest In Peace.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: drxcm on March 13, 2020, 05:02:08 PM
With the new Moog One pack that Shaw has released, I'm feeling short of space.

Has anyone actually contacted Sequential about this to see what's possible?  I'm sure the official line will be no, but hopefully support can say whether it is technically possible with the OS and hardware in it's current form.

Really hope there is a pathway for more HD space on the Prophet X, even if it means voiding warranty (which I'm out of now anyway).

Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Nokki on October 30, 2020, 05:35:42 AM
Any change of this ever happening? :/

Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Nokki on October 30, 2020, 05:38:16 AM
Any change of this ever happening? :/


I am sure everybody who owns a Prophet X would love a bigger dive, 50GB is a lot but with all the add on packs in the community it would be awesome to have all of them in the device and not have to choose what to keep in there and what not :)
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Nokki on October 30, 2020, 10:48:26 AM
Any change of this ever happening? :/


I am sure everybody who owns a Prophet X would love a bigger dive, 50GB is a lot but with all the add on packs in the community it would be awesome to have all of them in the device and not have to choose what to keep in there and what not :)

I am obviously reffering/hoping for a official release from sequential about getting a bigger hard drive :)
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: LoboLives on October 30, 2020, 12:05:18 PM
Any change of this ever happening? :/


I am sure everybody who owns a Prophet X would love a bigger dive, 50GB is a lot but with all the add on packs in the community it would be awesome to have all of them in the device and not have to choose what to keep in there and what not :)

I am obviously reffering/hoping for a official release from sequential about getting a bigger hard drive :)

I think the Prophet X has left a bad taste in the mouth of Sequential. I really donít see them doing much more with it.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: J_P_P on October 30, 2020, 06:49:21 PM
Any change of this ever happening? :/


I am sure everybody who owns a Prophet X would love a bigger dive, 50GB is a lot but with all the add on packs in the community it would be awesome to have all of them in the device and not have to choose what to keep in there and what not :)

I am obviously reffering/hoping for a official release from sequential about getting a bigger hard drive :)

I think the Prophet X has left a bad taste in the mouth of Sequential. I really donít see them doing much more with it.

What i find strange is the lack of 8dio Packs !!!

They have four sample  Bancks available to them, and even if you donwload all their banks, you will only use the 1st Bnack, and 16 slots of 128 of Bank 2... ::)
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: jago on October 31, 2020, 04:21:50 AM
Any change of this ever happening? :/


I am sure everybody who owns a Prophet X would love a bigger dive, 50GB is a lot but with all the add on packs in the community it would be awesome to have all of them in the device and not have to choose what to keep in there and what not :)

I am obviously reffering/hoping for a official release from sequential about getting a bigger hard drive :)

I think the Prophet X has left a bad taste in the mouth of Sequential. I really donít see them doing much more with it.


I guess the Official 8-dio sample import tool still being in Beta since December 2018 does really help its image either.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: LoboLives on October 31, 2020, 02:02:07 PM
Any change of this ever happening? :/


I am sure everybody who owns a Prophet X would love a bigger dive, 50GB is a lot but with all the add on packs in the community it would be awesome to have all of them in the device and not have to choose what to keep in there and what not :)

I am obviously reffering/hoping for a official release from sequential about getting a bigger hard drive :)

I think the Prophet X has left a bad taste in the mouth of Sequential. I really donít see them doing much more with it.

What i find strange is the lack of 8dio Packs !!!

They have four sample  Bancks available to them, and even if you donwload all their banks, you will only use the 1st Bnack, and 16 slots of 128 of Bank 2... ::)

I think 8Dio's support for the PX at this point is vaporware.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: J_P_P on November 01, 2020, 04:23:47 PM
Any change of this ever happening? :/


I am sure everybody who owns a Prophet X would love a bigger dive, 50GB is a lot but with all the add on packs in the community it would be awesome to have all of them in the device and not have to choose what to keep in there and what not :)

I am obviously reffering/hoping for a official release from sequential about getting a bigger hard drive :)

I think the Prophet X has left a bad taste in the mouth of Sequential. I really donít see them doing much more with it.

What i find strange is the lack of 8dio Packs !!!

They have four sample  Bancks available to them, and even if you donwload all their banks, you will only use the 1st Bnack, and 16 slots of 128 of Bank 2... ::)

I think 8Dio's support for the PX at this point is vaporware.

Yeah...very disapointing... :-\
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: LoboLives on November 01, 2020, 04:33:50 PM
Any change of this ever happening? :/


I am sure everybody who owns a Prophet X would love a bigger dive, 50GB is a lot but with all the add on packs in the community it would be awesome to have all of them in the device and not have to choose what to keep in there and what not :)

I am obviously reffering/hoping for a official release from sequential about getting a bigger hard drive :)

I think the Prophet X has left a bad taste in the mouth of Sequential. I really donít see them doing much more with it.

What i find strange is the lack of 8dio Packs !!!

They have four sample  Bancks available to them, and even if you donwload all their banks, you will only use the 1st Bnack, and 16 slots of 128 of Bank 2... ::)

I think 8Dio's support for the PX at this point is vaporware.

Yeah...very disapointing... :-\

Kind of makes me wonder what would have happened if Sequential partnered up with Nord instead of 8Dio
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Nokki on November 03, 2020, 01:56:18 PM
I do not agree, all the 8dio sample packs have been really good apart from the T8, - i do agree that they should have relased alot more packs and not just synths, but what they have made so far is good.

That is not the issue, the issue is that the prophet x needs and is clearly build for a bigger hard drive than 50gb user samples.

Sequential, please... :)
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: LoboLives on November 03, 2020, 04:43:09 PM
I do not agree, all the 8dio sample packs have been really good apart from the T8, - i do agree that they should have relased alot more packs and not just synths, but what they have made so far is good.

That is not the issue, the issue is that the prophet x needs and is clearly build for a bigger hard drive than 50gb user samples.

Sequential, please... :)

Not....


Gonna.....


Happen.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on November 03, 2020, 05:09:33 PM
I do not agree, all the 8dio sample packs have been really good apart from the T8, - i do agree that they should have relased alot more packs and not just synths, but what they have made so far is good.

That is not the issue, the issue is that the prophet x needs and is clearly build for a bigger hard drive than 50gb user samples.

Sequential, please... :)

Not....


Gonna.....


Happen.


Probably not from Sequential, no.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: LoboLives on November 03, 2020, 05:22:46 PM
I do not agree, all the 8dio sample packs have been really good apart from the T8, - i do agree that they should have relased alot more packs and not just synths, but what they have made so far is good.

That is not the issue, the issue is that the prophet x needs and is clearly build for a bigger hard drive than 50gb user samples.

Sequential, please... :)

Not....


Gonna.....


Happen.


Probably not from Sequential, no.

Unless it can be demonstrated that replacing the factory drive doesnít harm the machine I wouldnít even entertain the thought.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on November 03, 2020, 05:27:28 PM
I do not agree, all the 8dio sample packs have been really good apart from the T8, - i do agree that they should have relased alot more packs and not just synths, but what they have made so far is good.

That is not the issue, the issue is that the prophet x needs and is clearly build for a bigger hard drive than 50gb user samples.

Sequential, please... :)

Not....


Gonna.....


Happen.


Probably not from Sequential, no.

Unless it can be demonstrated that replacing the factory drive doesnít harm the machine I wouldnít even entertain the thought.


Itís just an off the shelf hard drive connected to a mother board just like millions of hard drives in North America... the tricky part is the OS and file system.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: LoboLives on November 03, 2020, 05:46:57 PM
I do not agree, all the 8dio sample packs have been really good apart from the T8, - i do agree that they should have relased alot more packs and not just synths, but what they have made so far is good.

That is not the issue, the issue is that the prophet x needs and is clearly build for a bigger hard drive than 50gb user samples.

Sequential, please... :)

Not....


Gonna.....


Happen.


Probably not from Sequential, no.

Unless it can be demonstrated that replacing the factory drive doesnít harm the machine I wouldnít even entertain the thought.


Itís just an off the shelf hard drive connected to a mother board just like millions of hard drives in North America... the tricky part is the OS and file system.

Which is essentially the entire heart of the machine.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on November 03, 2020, 05:51:49 PM
I do not agree, all the 8dio sample packs have been really good apart from the T8, - i do agree that they should have relased alot more packs and not just synths, but what they have made so far is good.

That is not the issue, the issue is that the prophet x needs and is clearly build for a bigger hard drive than 50gb user samples.

Sequential, please... :)

Not....


Gonna.....


Happen.


Probably not from Sequential, no.

Unless it can be demonstrated that replacing the factory drive doesnít harm the machine I wouldnít even entertain the thought.


Itís just an off the shelf hard drive connected to a mother board just like millions of hard drives in North America... the tricky part is the OS and file system.

Which is essentially the entire heart of the machine.


Maybe not... the main OS for the machine is likely stored in Flash, like the Prophet 12 and Rev 2.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: LoboLives on November 03, 2020, 06:19:31 PM
I do not agree, all the 8dio sample packs have been really good apart from the T8, - i do agree that they should have relased alot more packs and not just synths, but what they have made so far is good.

That is not the issue, the issue is that the prophet x needs and is clearly build for a bigger hard drive than 50gb user samples.

Sequential, please... :)

Not....


Gonna.....


Happen.


Probably not from Sequential, no.

Unless it can be demonstrated that replacing the factory drive doesnít harm the machine I wouldnít even entertain the thought.


Itís just an off the shelf hard drive connected to a mother board just like millions of hard drives in North America... the tricky part is the OS and file system.

Which is essentially the entire heart of the machine.


Maybe not... the main OS for the machine is likely stored in Flash, like the Prophet 12 and Rev 2.

Well if it can be done safely, Iím all for it.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: jwsteak on November 05, 2020, 09:49:34 AM
For grins I opened up my XL and hooked up a HDMI monitor and keyboard to the mobo. The pc setup is password protected. you can select two partitions. 2 is QNX bootloader. If you try moving the hd cable to other sata ports A1 or A2 it says it can't mount qnx6 hd. It will boot if hd cable is in either SATA3_1 (default) or SATA3_2. Don't know if this helps anyone but it satisfied my curiousity for now.
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on November 05, 2020, 10:28:45 AM
Has anyone tried to straight up duplicate the hard drive yet?
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: composerjk on November 05, 2020, 06:16:59 PM
Has anyone tried to straight up duplicate the hard drive yet?

Sure, that's feasible with drive duplicators or using dd(1).
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: Shaw on November 05, 2020, 06:22:07 PM
Has anyone tried to straight up duplicate the hard drive yet?

Sure, that's feasible with drive duplicators or using dd(1).
What do you think would happen if you ďduplicatedĒ the drive onto a 1TB hard drive.   Would the file system not recognize the actual newly available larger amount of free space?
Title: Re: Running out of hard drive space :/
Post by: composerjk on November 05, 2020, 06:44:05 PM
What do you think would happen if you ďduplicatedĒ the drive onto a 1TB hard drive.   Would the file system not recognize the actual newly available larger amount of free space?

Unlikely. Though I haven't looked at the full details of the qnx6fs filesystem implementation, I believe it's similar to other filesystems that fix the size upon creation.

To add a larger drive, one would need to be able to have it formatted appropriately with data put in expected places. Assuing there's nothing in the Sequential code to limit things, I'd suspect it may be possible but one would either have access a system running QNX or support added in the Prophet X/XL OS to format/setup a new drive. The latter would be preferable, of course. :)