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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Sequential Prophet X => Topic started by: kimu on June 11, 2019, 11:21:23 PM

Title: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: kimu on June 11, 2019, 11:21:23 PM
Hello guys and gals, I am almost ready to pull the trigger for a prophet x or xl.
I love the idea of having all those deep samples for creating cinematic atmosphere and weird soundscape.

But it's a huge investment even after having sold all my other gears a part for my Kronos.

All the demo on YouTube are not really inspiring and I have no change to try it in person, so please let have your thought about.
Pro, cons, any issues or highlights you have experienced...
Thanks
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: LoboLives on June 12, 2019, 04:10:33 AM
It was a huge game changer for me personally. I use it all the time as a composer and just writing songs. It’s put me off of workstation type synths where you would spend more time programming rather than recording. I don’t use my FA08, Kronos and Kurzweil anymore because the PX is just so instantaneous. The pros certainly outweigh the cons for me.

I think for me the only thing I wish the PX had was multitimbrality and the ability to have each oscillator be independently programmed and sequenced like on the Poly Evolver except on each layer. Now that starts to veer too much into “workstation” territory but still would be nice to have a drum sequence and bass sequence be independent of each other as opposed to following the same notes at the same time.

I know I’ve said that I wanted to avoid redundancy in my setup and that I had my eye on the new Kurzweil PC4 but the more I think about it thr more I think that a PXL AND PX would both look great together in my setup. That’s how much I love this synth.
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: kimu on June 12, 2019, 08:21:56 AM
thank you very much !! great feedback
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: jg666 on June 12, 2019, 08:41:21 AM
Tim Shoebridge on YouTube has started putting some videos together about the Prophet X, it might be worth keeping and eye on his channel for future videos :)
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: Lady Gaia on June 12, 2019, 09:19:14 AM
I’m a huge fan of what Sequential has done with the Prophet X.  Turning samples into fodder for synthesis with the immediacy of a classic knobby, subtractive synthesizer?  Brilliantly done.

I just wouldn’t think of it as a replacement for a classic sampler or workstation, nor really for a traditional analog synth.  As a hybrid it’s a wonderful complement to more established instrument categories and IMHO it should be approached as such.
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: kimu on June 13, 2019, 03:40:36 AM
Tim Shoebridge on YouTube has started putting some videos together about the Prophet X, it might be worth keeping and eye on his channel for future videos :)

thanks for the hints, i have watched all of them. I have to say are the better seen so far on yt about the px
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: kimu on June 13, 2019, 03:43:47 AM
I’m a huge fan of what Sequential has done with the Prophet X.  Turning samples into fodder for synthesis with the immediacy of a classic knobby, subtractive synthesizer?  Brilliantly done.

I just wouldn’t think of it as a replacement for a classic sampler or workstation, nor really for a traditional analog synth.  As a hybrid it’s a wonderful complement to more established instrument categories and IMHO it should be approached as such.

thanks.
interesting wiew. not having tried it in person, my main concern are related to the digital oscillator, are they really usefull ? Do you find ant good use blending sample oscillator and synth oscillator ?
and regarding the sample oscillator, is the raw material so good and fresh to stay inspiring for years or will become "old" quickly has happened to other "rompler" (of course i know the Px is much much more the a traditional rompler/workstation).
thx
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: LoboLives on June 13, 2019, 03:55:03 AM
I’m a huge fan of what Sequential has done with the Prophet X.  Turning samples into fodder for synthesis with the immediacy of a classic knobby, subtractive synthesizer?  Brilliantly done.

I just wouldn’t think of it as a replacement for a classic sampler or workstation, nor really for a traditional analog synth.  As a hybrid it’s a wonderful complement to more established instrument categories and IMHO it should be approached as such.

thanks.
interesting wiew. not having tried it in person, my main concern are related to the digital oscillator, are they really usefull ? Do you find ant good use blending sample oscillator and synth oscillator ?
and regarding the sample oscillator, is the raw material so good and fresh to stay inspiring for years or will become "old" quickly has happened to other "rompler" (of course i know the Px is much much more the a traditional rompler/workstation).
thx

For what it’s worth I’ve scored about 3 films with the Prophet X and have done lots of different types of music with it. Feel free to browse my SoundCloud to hear some examples https://soundcloud.com/user-523209234-123574856

As far as the oscillTors I would say they are there to help support the samples rather than be the main focus. That’s just me though.
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: kimu on June 13, 2019, 06:41:57 AM

For what it’s worth I’ve scored about 3 films with the Prophet X and have done lots of different types of music with it. Feel free to browse my SoundCloud to hear some examples https://soundcloud.com/user-523209234-123574856

As far as the oscillTors I would say they are there to help support the samples rather than be the main focus. That’s just me though.

great sounds, yes, that's how i would like to use the Px
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: Gerry Havinga on June 13, 2019, 06:52:36 AM
I’m a huge fan of what Sequential has done with the Prophet X.  Turning samples into fodder for synthesis with the immediacy of a classic knobby, subtractive synthesizer?  Brilliantly done.

I just wouldn’t think of it as a replacement for a classic sampler or workstation, nor really for a traditional analog synth.  As a hybrid it’s a wonderful complement to more established instrument categories and IMHO it should be approached as such.
thanks.
interesting wiew. not having tried it in person, my main concern are related to the digital oscillator, are they really usefull ? Do you find ant good use blending sample oscillator and synth oscillator ?
and regarding the sample oscillator, is the raw material so good and fresh to stay inspiring for years or will become "old" quickly has happened to other "rompler" (of course i know the Px is much much more the a traditional rompler/workstation).
thx
I only have the Prophet X for a few months now, but I cannot see myself ever get bored with the factory samples alone. The Atmosphere and Cinematic sections themselves have a different sample under every key and there are many instruments each in those sections. Just as an example. I have used one of the Atmosphere samples, adjusted it a semitone up (thanks Tim!) spread it over the keyboard, adjusted the start/end of the sample and the start/end of the loop section then assigned an LFO to slowly move the center of the loop ....... This created a real interesting and very musical bass patch (you can hear it on my Soundcloud, live test number 14: Live014 Ambient magic - its the bass start at the beginning and throughout the track).

I have started to install some of my own samples into the user part, 50Gbytes of space will keep me going for more than a few years. I do own an old Akai S5000 and I have attempted to create a kind of hybrid monster (S5000 through Evolver filters), but the workflow and effort killed all the fun. I only wish the P X had 128 note polyphony and ability to stack voices up to 32+ levels like the S5000  :).

Oh I almost forgot to mention the wave table samples at the beginning of the Synth section ........ Blew me completely away.

With regards to combining the digital oscillators with a sample, the sine wave adds "meat" to the patch, this works often really well (not always). I have created a patch with just the saw oscillators and added some filter drive, this (in my ears) already sounds great. Combining some of the 8Dio and (available through this forum) other synth oscillator samples with the digital oscillators (saw, super-saw and pulse) can create a massive, speaker blowing patch, wonderful.

Did I mention the stereo filters! And the left and right cutoff can be independently modulated, oh man, pure stereo heaven.
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: laurentluigi on June 13, 2019, 06:55:05 AM
Check CALUTRON on Youtube
"Prophet X Custom atmospheric presets"
And "The last supper"

music is made only with Px...!!!!!!
I think you must listen this !!!!!

You can hear a different demo and different capabilities.....
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: kimu on June 13, 2019, 09:52:06 AM
Thanks everybody. I will check out all your suggestion
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: Igglethorpe on June 13, 2019, 10:44:22 PM
My honest opinion is not so rosy as some have said here.  I did not get on with this keyboard at all and sold it after the lackluster sample tools were released last December.  I have since switched to the Quantum as my go to sample mangler / samples through analog filters and haven't been happier.
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: Lady Gaia on June 13, 2019, 10:53:37 PM
To each their own, certainly.  There's nothing more important than finding an instrument that speaks to you.  I was put off by the limited storage and memory for samples on the Quantum as well as the mono signal path through the analog filtering section, but it certainly has its strengths as well.

You may not have been following events since you moved on, but I wound up writing an alternative sample import utility from the ground up to expose far more of what the Prophet X is capable of.  It's freely available for personal use with a feature overview, demo video showcasing how it works, and link to the site where it's available in this thread (https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,3632.0.html).
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: extreme measures on June 17, 2019, 04:54:33 PM
It is a great sounding box.
The UI feels like a 1990's UI so .. not really happy with it.
Once I found out the core is a PC Mobo I felt that they should have spent more money on the display and a smoother UI.
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: Igglethorpe on June 19, 2019, 11:26:10 AM
To each their own, certainly.  There's nothing more important than finding an instrument that speaks to you.  I was put off by the limited storage and memory for samples on the Quantum as well as the mono signal path through the analog filtering section, but it certainly has its strengths as well.

You may not have been following events since you moved on, but I wound up writing an alternative sample import utility from the ground up to expose far more of what the Prophet X is capable of.  It's freely available for personal use with a feature overview, demo video showcasing how it works, and link to the site where it's available in this thread (https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,3632.0.html).

Thanks for that information. It is nice to know the community is supporting this well.  Sadly, it wasn’t just the sample utilities that formed my final opinion.  Here are a few more.

 - You can’t see the sample when editing which makes it very hard to find zero crossings
 - The sample only has a limited number of points where you can place a start/stop/loop point.  I believe 9999?  This becomes an issue if you are using a long sample as you now have far less granularity, which makes it harder to not find said zero crossings or a placement exactly where you want it.
 - In my opinion the 150GB of samples provided are limited.  I get it.  Deep sampling which means very large files, and limited choice.  That said, I find my Montage more engaging on its diversity of samples from a sample library that is only 6.7GB in size.

As mentioned above, I wasn’t a fan of the UI in general.  I think it works for the Prophet 12, but not for something like this which should offer a bit more detail for sample editing.
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: Lady Gaia on June 19, 2019, 12:32:02 PM
Sadly, it wasn’t just the sample utilities that formed my final opinion.  Here are a few more.

 - You can’t see the sample when editing which makes it very hard to find zero crossings
 - The sample only has a limited number of points where you can place a start/stop/loop point.  I believe 9999?  This becomes an issue if you are using a long sample as you now have far less granularity, which makes it harder to not find said zero crossings or a placement exactly where you want it.

The Prophet X wasn’t really conceived as a sampler with the kind of detailed editing you were looking for.  The sample accurate editing generally occurs upstream, when preparing an instrument on a computer long before it reaches the keyboard.  The loops defined at this stage are communicated with single-sample precision to allow perfect loops to be imported as the “default” loop for each sample.

The 0-9999 range is a way of quickly overriding this, not a substitute for a full sampling experience.  I’d like to see more flexibility in modulating loop points, myself, but with crossfading enabled you can still get musically useful results by overriding loops (and some fairly unique capabilities, like tempo-matched loop lengths.)

Quote
- In my opinion the 150GB of samples provided are limited.  I get it.  Deep sampling which means very large files, and limited choice.  That said, I find my Montage more engaging on its diversity of samples from a sample library that is only 6.7GB in size.

The factory samples can be hit-and-miss.  Their strengths are in providing the complete natural decay for instruments that don’t sustain indefinitely, and in astonishing stereo imaging in many cases due to the flagrant disregard for the space required.  Some of the variety isn’t readily apparent because they it’s hidden in the sample-per-key categories like sound effects and ambient environments.  I could definitely have done with less of the near/far mic’ed alternatives but I haven’t had trouble finding interesting content to work with, especially when user samples can round out gaps.

I completely understand not gelling with an instrument or the user interface.  I’ve passed on any number of instruments others find compelling, too.
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: LoboLives on June 19, 2019, 08:03:19 PM
I think the Prophet X's approach is less about the samples themselves but more so how you use them and manipulate them. That being said, I think the onboard samples are fantastic sounding. There's some really unique stuff in there that you wouldn't usually find in a hardware synth. The Ambience category alone could be a goldmine for Wavestation type sounds.

 
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: StephenJamesBennett on June 21, 2019, 01:18:17 AM
I'd agree—but using your own samples is possible and should be made easier to do. That way you can produce some truly personal sounds.

The PX is the best sounding synthesiser I have and the filter, though different, is easily as good as that in my revered Prophet 5 Rev 2.

It's probably not the most sophisticated sample mangler but, tbh, if I was going seriously get into that I'd do it in software as it's easier on a screen— then drop the results into the X.

I'm hoping an update allows you to do granular work—I would have thought that possible unless they are really pushing the processor hard already.  And sweeping through samples at different specified rates would be nice!

Stephen

Stephen
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: Igglethorpe on June 22, 2019, 07:38:51 PM
I'd agree—but using your own samples is possible and should be made easier to do. That way you can produce some truly personal sounds.

The PX is the best sounding synthesiser I have and the filter, though different, is easily as good as that in my revered Prophet 5 Rev 2.

It's probably not the most sophisticated sample mangler but, tbh, if I was going seriously get into that I'd do it in software as it's easier on a screen— then drop the results into the X.

I'm hoping an update allows you to do granular work—I would have thought that possible unless they are really pushing the processor hard already.  And sweeping through samples at different specified rates would be nice!

Stephen

Stephen

Some of what you said is why I now have a Quantum.  I don't want to use a computer for sample mangling and/or processing.  I want an in-between product that has just enough to get in there and get accurate results without all the minutia a software program could provide.  And, the Quantum does granular!!  Very well in fact.

I don't see the issue with having "only" 2.6GB of sample space in the Quantum when the size of the samples we typically work with in a project won't come near to fill that.  Understand that I deleted all the factory content of the Quantum which gives me that much space to work with.

I did like the sound of the Prophet X, but ultimately I was constrained by its design to do what I wanted with the samples.
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: kimu on June 25, 2019, 03:25:12 AM
thanks everybody for your contribution to the discussion. lots 0f really interesting points!

just one more question, does anyone have tried both the PX and some latest Clavia like nord stage 3 or nord piano 4 ?
how the Nord Library compare whit the Px regarding sound quality ?

i had the nord wave in the past and it was really good and the free library were huge, the PX is a step forward ?
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: StephenJamesBennett on June 25, 2019, 03:52:12 AM
I have the Electro, Wave and have used the Stage extensively.

You can use the X for a lot of the sounds the Nord is capable of. I wouldn't say the X sounds better for pianos, but the filters make it a superior synth to the Wave. But the latter is my live synth anyhow, I never record with it. I'd say the filter, though flexible, is pretty weak.

The organs are always going to be better on the Nord as they also have drawbars/Leslie emulation.

The sample and preset management is vastly superior on the Nords.

You get the X for the stereo filters and analog/hybrid path—the sound when you use it as a synth is, IMHO, vastly superior to the Nords.

Stephen



Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: kimu on June 25, 2019, 05:20:56 AM
thanks Stephen,

when say "as a synth" waht do you mean exactly ? :)
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: StephenJamesBennett on June 25, 2019, 05:40:32 AM
thanks Stephen,

when say "as a synth" waht do you mean exactly ? :)

I mean something that doesn't slavishly attempt to emulate real instruments—though it does some of that very well!

Like the Wave you use the samples and digital oscillators and the filters and modifiers to mangle the generators.

The filters lift it a level above the Wave—though I do miss the latter's versatile digital oscillators.

As a bonus, it can sound remarkably like a classic vintage Prophet 5—especially when using P5 oscillator samples.

But of course, it's much more than this.

Stephen
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: LoboLives on June 25, 2019, 02:55:52 PM
I think Nord is missing the ball not doing a new Wave synth...especially with their extensive sample library.

As far as the PX and piano type sounds...I’m not a player but the PX’s onboard piano sounds, Organ sounds and Electric Piano sounds have actually been my “go to” for when I need these sounds in a composition. With the 32 voice mode especially. Plus there’s samples of piano strings being plucked and scratched which most dedicated stage pianos don’t have. Plus I can sample more of those with my real upright if I need to and manipulate those samples with the engine. Again though, I’m speaking from a soundtrack composer’s perspective.
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: StephenJamesBennett on June 26, 2019, 02:32:13 AM
I agree re: Wave—though a lot of the functionality is built into the Stage now.

What I'd like is a 73 note weighted Stage with real drawbars. One instrument Clavia don't make!

I agree as to the use of the X for 'bread and butter' sounds (apart from Organ). But again, I'd only be concerned for for live use.

I use the X as a synthesiser.

Stephen
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: kimu on June 29, 2019, 08:42:39 PM
I finally been able to test both the px and the piano nord 4
Clavia library are great, especially piano (of course), strings, brass and choirs, really close to a the real and ones, but px is astonishing, what a spatiality in sound and so clear and defined.
Maybe not all sample are so useful and great (some piano sample did not sound at all like a piano) but overall is great.

I preferred px over grand piano because of its synth features, when playing nord piano I miss having a filter, pitch and mod wheel etc etc but have to say that clavia is great in offering everything without menu while px requires deeper learning curve...

Finally, the keybed of the px is horrible... The xl is similar to hp keybed from clavia or the hammer graded from Korg?
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: OceanMachine on June 29, 2019, 08:49:54 PM
The xl is similar to hp keybed from clavia or the hammer graded from Korg?

No, it's a Fatar TP/8Piano.  (http://www.fatar.com/Pages/TP_8PIANO.htm)
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: AG on November 13, 2020, 12:30:57 PM
Why is everyone playing this synth like a rompler , to me that defeats the point of this synth .
Can someone point me to where I can hear the PX sample modulation in action and some new exciting timbers .
I want to make Boards of Canada type sounds on the PX with pitch , filter , amp wobble and weird modulation etc... can the PX do that or would I be disappointed ?
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: LoboLives on November 14, 2020, 06:31:44 PM
Why is everyone playing this synth like a rompler , to me that defeats the point of this synth .
Can someone point me to where I can hear the PX sample modulation in action and some new exciting timbers .
I want to make Boards of Canada type sounds on the PX with pitch , filter , amp wobble and weird modulation etc... can the PX do that or would I be disappointed ?

It can easily do that. It has an entire dedicated synth engine in addition to the sample section
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: AG on November 15, 2020, 04:00:29 AM
Why is everyone playing this synth like a rompler , to me that defeats the point of this synth .
Can someone point me to where I can hear the PX sample modulation in action and some new exciting timbers .
I want to make Boards of Canada type sounds on the PX with pitch , filter , amp wobble and weird modulation etc... can the PX do that or would I be disappointed ?

It can easily do that. It has an entire dedicated synth engine in addition to the sample section
Thanks ,
how's the polyphony , are they're voice dropouts with large chord progressions with long sustain . say a C minor 11th to D minor 11th .
Does anything else take away from the polyphony besides the note voices like LFOs FX etc... ?
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: LoboLives on November 15, 2020, 11:09:26 AM
Why is everyone playing this synth like a rompler , to me that defeats the point of this synth .
Can someone point me to where I can hear the PX sample modulation in action and some new exciting timbers .
I want to make Boards of Canada type sounds on the PX with pitch , filter , amp wobble and weird modulation etc... can the PX do that or would I be disappointed ?

It can easily do that. It has an entire dedicated synth engine in addition to the sample section
Thanks ,
how's the polyphony , are they're voice dropouts with large chord progressions with long sustain . say a C minor 11th to D minor 11th .
Does anything else take away from the polyphony besides the note voices like LFOs FX etc... ?

You have 3 choices of polyphony, 8 voices stereo, 16 voices mono, 32 voices paraphonic. Personally I've never had an issue with any of the modes.

The only thing that borrows polyphony would be the sequencer.
Title: Re: Need honest opinion on prophet x by users
Post by: A Thousand Eyes on November 15, 2020, 11:27:30 AM
It's important to state that all those get halved when in layer or split mode. It's very easy to hit that polyphony wall with 4 voices in stereo when layered or split.