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OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: LoboLives on January 23, 2019, 08:02:48 PM

Title: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: LoboLives on January 23, 2019, 08:02:48 PM
I figured it would be cool to start a thread discussing all the new gear appearing at NAMM.

So far I’ve checked out videos on....

Yamaha has a new CP piano which is very similar to the layout of a Nord piano or a Korg Grandstage.

Elektron has a nice new sample based drum machine which not only has a nice simplified retro look as well as a decent price point ($400).


Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 23, 2019, 08:12:22 PM
Don't neglect to add links here, so we don't have to search online for every morsel of information.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: LoboLives on January 23, 2019, 08:42:59 PM
Don't neglect to add links here, so we don't have to search online for every morsel of information.

Good call.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: LoboLives on January 23, 2019, 08:44:06 PM
https://youtu.be/w8s19V9Yjek New Yamaha CP
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: LoboLives on January 23, 2019, 08:45:40 PM
New Elektron Drum Machine

https://youtu.be/gc0pC_2rp1c
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: LoboLives on January 23, 2019, 08:46:53 PM
I know it won't happen this year, but I'm wondering if Moog will eventually fill the Minimoog vacuum.

I do wonder...now that Moog has done an analog polysynth again...would they really go back to Mono synths or continue to try new things.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 23, 2019, 08:48:39 PM
I think the mono synth will always be Moog's specialty. 
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Shaw on January 23, 2019, 09:07:26 PM
Not necessarily a "new" announcement, but Waldorf is coming through on the Kyra (formerly Valkyrie) VA Synth that some describe as the Access Virus successor....


https://www.musicradar.com/news/waldorf-teases-kyra-a-super-powerful-synth-due-to-debut-at-namm-2019
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: megamarkd on January 24, 2019, 12:42:40 AM
Korg have announced an updated digitally enhanced Minilogue (https://www.korg.com/au/products/synthesizers/minilogue_xd/) (Minilogue XD) and two new Volcas (Drum (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_drum/) and Modular (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_modular/)), all of which I'm pretty impressed with.

That Elektron drummer really is killer sounding and so made for performance.  I'm a sucker for drum machines under a grand.

I know it won't happen this year, but I'm wondering if Moog will eventually fill the Minimoog vacuum.

I do wonder...now that Moog has done an analog polysynth again...would they really go back to Mono synths or continue to try new things.

Sacred Synthesis' quote made me think of a moog vacuum and had me wondering why he'd want a moog hoover sound?  It's been hot down here!
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 24, 2019, 04:46:19 AM
Korg have announced an updated digitally enhanced Minilogue (https://www.korg.com/au/products/synthesizers/minilogue_xd/) (Minilogue XD) and two new Volcas (Drum (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_drum/) and Modular (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_modular/)), all of which I'm pretty impressed with.

That Elektron drummer really is killer sounding and so made for performance.  I'm a sucker for drum machines under a grand.

I know it won't happen this year, but I'm wondering if Moog will eventually fill the Minimoog vacuum.

I do wonder...now that Moog has done an analog polysynth again...would they really go back to Mono synths or continue to try new things.

Sacred Synthesis' quote made me think of a moog vacuum and had me wondering why he'd want a moog hoover sound?  It's been hot down here!

I saw the Minilogue XD last weekend. Looks really cool, though I can’t understand why they removed full ADSR from the filter EG.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 24, 2019, 05:43:37 AM
I know it won't happen this year, but I'm wondering if Moog will eventually fill the Minimoog vacuum.

Megamarkd -

Oh, I'm just trying to start a rumor that Moog is branching out into the vacuum cleaner market.  Their fist model will be called the Minivac.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 24, 2019, 05:48:56 AM
Korg have announced an updated digitally enhanced Minilogue (https://www.korg.com/au/products/synthesizers/minilogue_xd/) (Minilogue XD) and two new Volcas (Drum (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_drum/) and Modular (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_modular/)), all of which I'm pretty impressed with.

If Korg would only go adult size, I'd probably be willing to give one of their new instruments a try.  I'm still a-searching for that "perfect" mono synth.  In the end, the Pro 2 has come the closest, except that I wish it came also in module form.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Shaw on January 24, 2019, 05:50:41 AM
Korg have announced an updated digitally enhanced Minilogue (https://www.korg.com/au/products/synthesizers/minilogue_xd/) (Minilogue XD) and two new Volcas (Drum (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_drum/) and Modular (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_modular/)), all of which I'm pretty impressed with.

If Korg would only go adult size, I'd probably be willing to give one of their new instruments a try.
No doubt.  When did Fisher Price take over Korg and Roland?
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 24, 2019, 06:04:43 AM
Exactly!  I'm so relieved Sequential hasn't fallen to the tiny temptation.  I believe Robot Heart has asserted they never will.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: LoboLives on January 24, 2019, 07:15:10 AM
Korg have announced an updated digitally enhanced Minilogue (https://www.korg.com/au/products/synthesizers/minilogue_xd/) (Minilogue XD) and two new Volcas (Drum (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_drum/) and Modular (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_modular/)), all of which I'm pretty impressed with.

If Korg would only go adult size, I'd probably be willing to give one of their new instruments a try.  I'm still a-searching for that "perfect" mono synth.  In the end, the Pro 2 has come the closest, except that I wish it came also in module form.

Well they did go adult size with the Prologue.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: SynthJam on January 24, 2019, 07:47:21 AM
Don't neglect to add links here, so we don't have to search online for every morsel of information.

Best link is this ...

instagram.com/synthjam (http://instagram.com/synthjam) .... all the synth news as it happens from NAMM
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 24, 2019, 08:16:19 AM
Well they did go adult size with the Prologue.

Yes, I expected someone would say that.  At first, I was excited about them, but the Prologues now seem like cheap Prophet Rev2s.  Sure, they have some obvious additional features, but also a pitiful paucity of modulation.  On the Sweetwater Specs page, they don't even mention modulation!  Nor have I been impressed with their general tone.  Nor is there a module version.  And I've also read about serious tuning problems in quite a few units.  I quickly crossed the Prologues off my list.

Besides, isn't the digital oscillator still under development?  I prefer completed instruments that can be fully assessed before purchased.  That's one of the reasons I wait for Sequential to finish their OS updates before buying one of their synthesizers.  I'm still patiently waiting for the Rev2 to reach its "perfect" state.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: SandyS1 on January 24, 2019, 08:30:08 AM

Besides, isn't the digital oscillator still under development?

No, it shipped with it. It's just getting oscillator types (and effects) from third party developers. For the Minilogue XD, apparently they've open sourced it so you don't have to vet them through Korg like for the Prologue.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 24, 2019, 08:38:30 AM

Besides, isn't the digital oscillator still under development?

No, it shipped with it. It's just getting oscillator types (and effects) from third party developers. For the Minilogue XD, apparently they've open sourced it so you don't have to vet them through Korg like for the Prologue.

That's what I meant.  In some way, shape, or form, the third oscillator is still being expanded.

I'm not at all opposed to Korg synthesizers.  I've owned two.  I just haven't seen anything yet that would motivate me to choose one over a Sequential instrument.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 24, 2019, 08:56:56 AM
Well they did go adult size with the Prologue.

Yes, I expected someone would say that.  At first, I was excited about them, but the Prologues now seem like cheap Prophet Rev2s.  Sure, they have some obvious additional features, but also a pitiful paucity of modulation.  On the Sweetwater Specs page, they don't even mention modulation!  Nor have I been impressed with their general tone.  Nor is there a module version.  And I've also read about serious tuning problems in quite a few units.  I quickly crossed the Prologues off my list.

Besides, isn't the digital oscillator still under development?  I prefer completed instruments that can be fully assessed before purchased.  That's one of the reasons I wait for Sequential to finish their OS updates before buying one of their synthesizers.  I'm still patiently waiting for the Rev2 to reach its "perfect" state.

And no aftertouch.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 24, 2019, 08:59:12 AM
I know it won't happen this year, but I'm wondering if Moog will eventually fill the Minimoog vacuum.

I do wonder...now that Moog has done an analog polysynth again...would they really go back to Mono synths or continue to try new things.

This just came into my inbox:

https://www.moogmusic.com/news/sirin-analog-messenger-joy

Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 24, 2019, 09:12:47 AM
Korg have announced an updated digitally enhanced Minilogue (https://www.korg.com/au/products/synthesizers/minilogue_xd/) (Minilogue XD) and two new Volcas (Drum (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_drum/) and Modular (https://www.korg.com/au/products/dj/volca_modular/)), all of which I'm pretty impressed with.

If Korg would only go adult size, I'd probably be willing to give one of their new instruments a try.  I'm still a-searching for that "perfect" mono synth.  In the end, the Pro 2 has come the closest, except that I wish it came also in module form.

I love the Pro 2; I've had mine for a few weeks now and am smitten (and I've barely touched the sequencer yet). Sadly it needs to go back to the shop to have a circuit board swapped out as both filter cutoff knobs became wobbly after around two weeks of very careful use. I'm enjoying the extra keyboard range over my Subsequent 37.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 24, 2019, 09:13:49 AM
I know it won't happen this year, but I'm wondering if Moog will eventually fill the Minimoog vacuum.

Megamarkd -

Oh, I'm just trying to start a rumor that Moog is branching out into the vacuum cleaner market.  Their fist model will be called the Minivac.

Let's hope it doesn't suck!  ;D
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 24, 2019, 09:26:48 AM
Well they did go adult size with the Prologue.

Yes, I expected someone would say that.  At first, I was excited about them, but the Prologues now seem like cheap Prophet Rev2s.  Sure, they have some obvious additional features, but also a pitiful paucity of modulation.  On the Sweetwater Specs page, they don't even mention modulation!  Nor have I been impressed with their general tone.  Nor is there a module version.  And I've also read about serious tuning problems in quite a few units.  I quickly crossed the Prologues off my list.

Besides, isn't the digital oscillator still under development?  I prefer completed instruments that can be fully assessed before purchased.  That's one of the reasons I wait for Sequential to finish their OS updates before buying one of their synthesizers.  I'm still patiently waiting for the Rev2 to reach its "perfect" state.

And no aftertouch.

Yes, and I just read a review in which a person tried to make light of this by saying - surprise surprise - that the synthesizers of the 80's didn't have aftertouch (but some did, such as the ARP Pro Soloist), and no one complained about it back then.  Please!  That's not a very effective defense.

I'm not in need of exceedingly complicated synthesizers, but there is a minimum of basic features that must be present, and aftertouch is certainly one of them, together with four or more LFOs.
 
I suppose it's unlikely we'll see it this winter, but I'm really hoping for some sort of Prophet 12 replacement from Sequential.  I can wait, because I'm still getting ready for the Rev2, but I do hope there's a big one in the works.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 24, 2019, 09:41:27 AM
Well they did go adult size with the Prologue.

Yes, I expected someone would say that.  At first, I was excited about them, but the Prologues now seem like cheap Prophet Rev2s.  Sure, they have some obvious additional features, but also a pitiful paucity of modulation.  On the Sweetwater Specs page, they don't even mention modulation!  Nor have I been impressed with their general tone.  Nor is there a module version.  And I've also read about serious tuning problems in quite a few units.  I quickly crossed the Prologues off my list.

Besides, isn't the digital oscillator still under development?  I prefer completed instruments that can be fully assessed before purchased.  That's one of the reasons I wait for Sequential to finish their OS updates before buying one of their synthesizers.  I'm still patiently waiting for the Rev2 to reach its "perfect" state.

And no aftertouch.

Yes, and I just read a review in which a person tried to make light of this by saying - surprise surprise - that the synthesizers of the 80's didn't have aftertouch (but some did, such as the ARP Pro Soloist), and no one complained about it back then.  Please!  That's not a very effective defense.

I'm not in need of exceedingly complicated synthesizers, but there is a minimum of basic features that must be present, and aftertouch is certainly one of them, together with four or more LFOs.  The Prologue can't even come close.

I suppose it's likely we won't see it this winter, but I'm really hoping for some sort of Prophet 12 replacement from Sequential.  I can wait, because I'm still getting ready for the Rev2, but I do hope there's a big one on the way.

I'm in a similar boat. I'm ready to buy my first poly. I'd love a poly rendition of the Pro 2. I wasn't bowled over by the P12 (neither the filter or the keybed), though I guess it's a grower. I'm still tempted by P6/OB-6 but the single LFO and 4-Octave keyboard are making me hesitate somewhat. I like the fact that they have a panel mode and dual effects. I might find the Rev 2 a bit too overwhelming (though the Pro 2 is pretty beastly).
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 24, 2019, 09:50:56 AM
You should seriously consider the Rev2.  It may be a bit more than you want right now, but it's also nice to have room to grow in future years.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: megamarkd on January 24, 2019, 10:06:57 AM
Well they did go adult size with the Prologue.

Yes, I expected someone would say that.  At first, I was excited about them, but the Prologues now seem like cheap Prophet Rev2s.  Sure, they have some obvious additional features, but also a pitiful paucity of modulation.  On the Sweetwater Specs page, they don't even mention modulation!  Nor have I been impressed with their general tone.  Nor is there a module version.  And I've also read about serious tuning problems.  I quickly crossed the Prologues off my list.

Besides, isn't the digital oscillator still under development?

Modulation sources and destinations are always a huge consideration for me and Korg do really fall short on that with all the latest instruments.  I still shake my head when I look at the AD envelope on the Monologue and the "you may choose from one of the following three destinations" switch and say to myself "Korg, what were you thinking?  This is a Volca with keys!"

The digital oscillator for the Mini/Prologue is fully functional as far as I've read, with various companies selling "pro-designed" oscillators created with the SDK for it.  It'd be a bit like hara-kiri to announce an updated Minilogue featuring the multi-engine digital oscillator with it still not working properly (a year after release at that).

I saw the Minilogue XD last weekend. Looks really cool, though I can’t understand why they removed full ADSR from the filter EG.

That indeed is a bummer, as is the loss of the cutoff envelope if you want an envelope for the pitch.  And the removal of the 24dB mode for the filter tends to give it less scope for creating aggressive emphasis in a patch.  Oh well, at least they added a sequencer that can act as a parameter animator and some CV inputs which can be assigned to pretty much any parameter on the synth (a little win there if you have a few external CV sources).

All this Korg talk, but I have to say, after listening to the Model:Samples demo again and reading a bit on the Elektron site, I think I might have finally found a replacement for my dead RY30.  I'll wait to see who else releases a new drum machine before I start the funds drive though.  Likely nobody but maybe, just maybe Yamaha might do something they haven't done in over a decade?  I really doubt Akai will.

Warning - while you were typing 9 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Yes yes I was expecting that!
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 24, 2019, 10:07:23 AM
I know it won't happen this year, but I'm wondering if Moog will eventually fill the Minimoog vacuum.

I do wonder...now that Moog has done an analog polysynth again...would they really go back to Mono synths or continue to try new things.

This just came into my inbox:

https://www.moogmusic.com/news/sirin-analog-messenger-joy

Looks like it would pair nicely with a Moog Grandmother.  And it's only $600.  But I think for the same price I'd prefer an Odyssey Module or even a Vermona Mono Lancet.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 24, 2019, 10:21:08 AM
I know it won't happen this year, but I'm wondering if Moog will eventually fill the Minimoog vacuum.

I do wonder...now that Moog has done an analog polysynth again...would they really go back to Mono synths or continue to try new things.

This just came into my inbox:

https://www.moogmusic.com/news/sirin-analog-messenger-joy

Looks like it would pair nicely with a Moog Grandmother.  And it's only $600.  But I think for the same price I'd prefer an Odyssey Module or even a Vermona Mono Lancet.

I owned a Minitaur for a brief period but returned it, mainly due to a fault with the pitch CV input on both examples I had but I found the limited range so frustrating. This looks like it would solve all that. (I'm still not fond of some features only being accessible via the editor, such as wave reset and a few other parameters, but I'm still very interested in this.)

EDIT - I hadn't clocked the price - that's quite a bit more than a Minitaur and will likely be 600 GBP for me so that's less enticing.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: SandyS1 on January 24, 2019, 11:10:41 AM
Yes, and I just read a review in which a person tried to make light of this by saying - surprise surprise - that the synthesizers of the 80's didn't have aftertouch (but some did, such as the ARP Pro Soloist), and no one complained about it back then.  Please!  That's not a very effective defense.

I'm still annoyed I can't get something with a keyboard and poly pressure as nice as the T-8 nowadays! That was what, 1983?

Also, my JX-8P and Ensoniq SQ-80 (poly, even!) cough in that reviewer's general direction.

Yeah, the Prologue is a bit limited. I don't love the filter, though the digital oscillator is interesting and it can make some nice sounds...just not enough that I couldn't make with other gear.

Hey, Dave, maybe the next step in the evolution of the VS/Evolver synths could feature a keyboard like the T-8 :) :)
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: SandyS1 on January 24, 2019, 11:31:50 AM
Well, this is certainly interesting:

https://www.arturia.com/products/hardware-synths/microfreak/overview

Quote
A synthesizer like no other, MicroFreak is a peculiar, exceptional instrument that rewards the curious musician. It blends wavetable and digital oscillators with analog filters. It features a unique poly-aftertouch flat keyboard. It adds controlled randomness to sequences. This isn’t a revolution, it’s a mutiny.

The video is a bit of a disappointment, but I'll reserve judgement until someone like Nick Batt does a review. I'm a sucker for hybrids, and the keyboard is an interesting idea. The price isn't too bad, either.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: LoboLives on January 24, 2019, 11:39:04 AM
Well they did go adult size with the Prologue.

Yes, I expected someone would say that.  At first, I was excited about them, but the Prologues now seem like cheap Prophet Rev2s.  Sure, they have some obvious additional features, but also a pitiful paucity of modulation.  On the Sweetwater Specs page, they don't even mention modulation!  Nor have I been impressed with their general tone.  Nor is there a module version.  And I've also read about serious tuning problems in quite a few units.  I quickly crossed the Prologues off my list.

Besides, isn't the digital oscillator still under development?  I prefer completed instruments that can be fully assessed before purchased.  That's one of the reasons I wait for Sequential to finish their OS updates before buying one of their synthesizers.  I'm still patiently waiting for the Rev2 to reach its "perfect" state.

And no aftertouch.

Yes, and I just read a review in which a person tried to make light of this by saying - surprise surprise - that the synthesizers of the 80's didn't have aftertouch (but some did, such as the ARP Pro Soloist), and no one complained about it back then.  Please!  That's not a very effective defense.

I'm not in need of exceedingly complicated synthesizers, but there is a minimum of basic features that must be present, and aftertouch is certainly one of them, together with four or more LFOs.
 
I suppose it's unlikely we'll see it this winter, but I'm really hoping for some sort of Prophet 12 replacement from Sequential.  I can wait, because I'm still getting ready for the Rev2, but I do hope there's a big one in the works.

For me I’ve started to warm up to the Prologue for one simple reason: it sounds different. It doesn’t sound like a Prophet or Oberhiem, it has its own unique sound that compliments my other gear.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 24, 2019, 11:43:45 AM
For me I’ve started to warm up to the Prologue for one simple reason: it sounds different. It doesn’t sound like a Prophet or Oberhiem, it has its own unique sound that compliments my other gear.

That's for sure!
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on January 24, 2019, 11:45:56 AM
Well, this is certainly interesting:

https://www.arturia.com/products/hardware-synths/microfreak/overview

Quote
A synthesizer like no other, MicroFreak is a peculiar, exceptional instrument that rewards the curious musician. It blends wavetable and digital oscillators with analog filters. It features a unique poly-aftertouch flat keyboard. It adds controlled randomness to sequences. This isn’t a revolution, it’s a mutiny.

The video is a bit of a disappointment, but I'll reserve judgement until someone like Nick Batt does a review. I'm a sucker for hybrids, and the keyboard is an interesting idea. The price isn't too bad, either.

It reminds me of the old WASP synthesizer.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 24, 2019, 03:09:01 PM
You should seriously consider the Rev2.  It may be a bit more than you want right now, but it's also nice to have room to grow in future years.

It’s definitely still in my shortlist, I just need to get to somewhere I can try it again. Bizarrely I’ve had more opportunity when going to Berlin than going somewhere in the UK (and often it’s cheaper to do that too).
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: jg666 on January 24, 2019, 03:42:58 PM
You should seriously consider the Rev2.  It may be a bit more than you want right now, but it's also nice to have room to grow in future years.

It’s definitely still in my shortlist, I just need to get to somewhere I can try it again. Bizarrely I’ve had more opportunity when going to Berlin than going somewhere in the UK (and often it’s cheaper to do that too).

I tried the Rev2 at Gear4Music in York and liked it so much I took one away with me :)
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Quatschmacher on January 24, 2019, 03:58:33 PM
Just checked out the Arturia Microfreak. Very interesting:
https://youtu.be/kdtTGBAY_-4
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: chysn on January 24, 2019, 07:21:22 PM
It's too bad I don't need any more synth stuff, because I love everything about the MicroFreak.

In other news, Buchla is making eurorack modules now as Red Panel. Basically they took over Catalyst, which had been making 100 Series clones. https://sonicstate.com/news/2019/01/24/namm-2019-buchlas-red-panel-affordable-synths/
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: megamarkd on January 24, 2019, 09:32:16 PM
It's too bad I don't need any more synth stuff, because I love everything about the MicroFreak.

Oh it's a very tempting reason to make some space indeed.  They have got Mutable Instruments in on the design and are using a great number of their oscillator algorithms in it.  I don't even care that it's paraphonic, it's sounds wonderful!

In other news, Buchla is making eurorack modules now as Red Panel. Basically they took over Catalyst, which had been making 100 Series clones. https://sonicstate.com/news/2019/01/24/namm-2019-buchlas-red-panel-affordable-synths/

Don't say that, I'm running out of room in my second double tier case already!
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: jg666 on January 25, 2019, 12:25:02 AM
Re the MicroFreak there's just one big thing that I don't like about it and that's the keyboard. I just can't get on with playing a flat non-yielding surface.

I've got a couple of synth apps on my ipad but hardly use them because I hate playing on the screen. I do occasionally connect it up to a proper keyboard and play it that way but it's too much hassle to keep doing that.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: chysn on January 25, 2019, 01:34:24 AM
They have got Mutable Instruments in on the design and are using a great number of their oscillator algorithms in it.

Well, Arturia used code from Plaits while the marketing copy throws around terms like "collaboration," but Mutable Instruments had nothing to do with the design, and Émile was only shown the thing when it was pretty much done. She doesn't object to the use of the open-source code, but she does sort of object to the word "collaboration."

But still, if you ever wanted Plaits in a stand-alone synth...
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Shaw on January 25, 2019, 05:38:42 AM
To be honest, on the synth front, this NAMM was a bit of a sleeper.  Although Waldorf’s new Oscillator ability on the Quantum has me re-thinking that synth.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Gerrit on January 25, 2019, 06:07:22 AM
The Waldorf Kyra (aka Exodus Valkyrie) is available: https://www.gearnews.com/namm-2019-waldorf-shows-off-kyra-the-revamped-valkyrie-virtual-analog-synthesizer/ (https://www.gearnews.com/namm-2019-waldorf-shows-off-kyra-the-revamped-valkyrie-virtual-analog-synthesizer/)
I would like to have a look at the manual to see what you can do with the oscillator groups and other details about the synth engine.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Ant of 12047 on January 25, 2019, 11:44:47 AM
Well they did go adult size with the Prologue.

Yes, I expected someone would say that.  At first, I was excited about them, but the Prologues now seem like cheap Prophet Rev2s.  Sure, they have some obvious additional features, but also a pitiful paucity of modulation.  On the Sweetwater Specs page, they don't even mention modulation!  Nor have I been impressed with their general tone.  Nor is there a module version.  And I've also read about serious tuning problems in quite a few units.  I quickly crossed the Prologues off my list.

Besides, isn't the digital oscillator still under development?  I prefer completed instruments that can be fully assessed before purchased.  That's one of the reasons I wait for Sequential to finish their OS updates before buying one of their synthesizers.  I'm still patiently waiting for the Rev2 to reach its "perfect" state.

And no aftertouch.

Yes, and I just read a review in which a person tried to make light of this by saying - surprise surprise - that the synthesizers of the 80's didn't have aftertouch (but some did, such as the ARP Pro Soloist), and no one complained about it back then.  Please!  That's not a very effective defense.

I'm not in need of exceedingly complicated synthesizers, but there is a minimum of basic features that must be present, and aftertouch is certainly one of them, together with four or more LFOs.
 
I suppose it's unlikely we'll see it this winter, but I'm really hoping for some sort of Prophet 12 replacement from Sequential.  I can wait, because I'm still getting ready for the Rev2, but I do hope there's a big one in the works.

For me I’ve started to warm up to the Prologue for one simple reason: it sounds different. It doesn’t sound like a Prophet or Oberhiem, it has its own unique sound that compliments my other gear.

I just received my Prologue today - 30 minutes ago. I have a Prophet 6 as my main poly-synth in Berlin, but I'm back and forth to California enough lately to need a new/reliable poly when I'm back home. My girlfriend has a P5, and I've got a PolySix, so I'm sorted for vintage gear out here. Thankfully, finances have dictated that another Prophet 6, or an OB-6 ain't possible. I've had my eye on the Prologue since it showed up in the shop and I have to say, I really do love the sound. Don't get me wrong - I adore the Prophet 6 - but the Prologue has, for me, more immediate "analog charm." The oscs blur quite naturally and the filter edges nicely towards dirty MS-10/20 territory. I'm with Lobolives regarding the Prologue - "unique sound that compliments my other gear." I'm not in need of loads of modulation options, nor aftertouch, really. I think my background with some of the classics, the aforementioned P5 and PolySix, for example, has me trained to appreciate the possibilities of straightforwardness. Anyway, I'm so pleased to have picked up a Prologue finally.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Paul Dither on January 25, 2019, 01:26:37 PM
To be honest, on the synth front, this NAMM was a bit of a sleeper.

Maybe not so much on the level of so-called flagship synths but other than that there have been quite a few announcements and more indications of companies moving beyond analog-only as the former "gold standard." In other words: more and more companies are getting into hybrids. And it might be the case that some manufacturers are going to wait until Superbooth with their next announcements.

But even in the purely analog realm Dave Rossum developed the very interesting triple-oscillator module Trident which seems like a luxury version of the Moog One front end.

Although Waldorf’s new Oscillator ability on the Quantum has me re-thinking that synth.

The kernel synthesis update is indeed a rather big one. What you basically get now is up to three 6OP FM synths that are inter-modulatable amongst other things.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: BobTheDog on January 25, 2019, 02:12:44 PM
They have got Mutable Instruments in on the design and are using a great number of their oscillator algorithms in it.

Well, Arturia used code from Plaits while the marketing copy throws around terms like "collaboration," but Mutable Instruments had nothing to do with the design, and Émile was only shown the thing when it was pretty much done. She doesn't object to the use of the open-source code, but she does sort of object to the word "collaboration."

But still, if you ever wanted Plaits in a stand-alone synth...

This unfortunately was a marketing mistake, the copy has been changed and apologies for the mistake have been made.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: BobTheDog on January 25, 2019, 02:20:43 PM
I know it won't happen this year, but I'm wondering if Moog will eventually fill the Minimoog vacuum.

I do wonder...now that Moog has done an analog polysynth again...would they really go back to Mono synths or continue to try new things.

This just came into my inbox:

https://www.moogmusic.com/news/sirin-analog-messenger-joy

Ah, I need this. I love the minitaur and this looks a good addition.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Shaw on January 25, 2019, 04:07:50 PM
The kernel synthesis update is indeed a rather big one. What you basically get now is up to three 6OP FM synths that are inter-modulatable amongst other things.
Exactly!  But I’m also excited to see Waldorf take their instrument beyond the original spec.... and I like Rolf’s answer when he misheard Nick Blatt say “Wow”, Rolf heard “why?” — and his answer was (I think a very German answer) something along the lines of “because we can, because we like to see the sonic experimentation that can be done with the Quantum, and why not?”.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Paul Dither on January 25, 2019, 04:13:44 PM
The kernel synthesis update is indeed a rather big one. What you basically get now is up to three 6OP FM synths that are inter-modulatable amongst other things.
Exactly!  But I’m also excited to see Waldorf take their instrument beyond the original spec.... and I like Rolf’s answer when he misheard Nick Blatt say “Wow”, Rolf heard “why?” — and his answer was (I think a very German answer) something along the lines of “because we can, because we like to see the sonic experimentation that can be done with the Quantum, and why not?”.

Hehe, yeah, saw that too. I already saw an interview with Rolf during the summer in which he was hinting at some more features and even the option of integrating some of the Quantum's ingredients in upcoming and maybe even more affordable units. He definitely seemed to be eager to keep on expanding the Waldorf portfolio.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Sleep of Reason on January 25, 2019, 04:45:25 PM
I remember him mentioning the possibility of some kind of FM engine. Say what you want about the delay between announcement & release, at least they're quick on getting to a major update already. Kudos to Waldorf!
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Razmo on January 25, 2019, 04:54:38 PM
but unfortunately they cannot update it to 16 voices... which really is a shame
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Shaw on January 25, 2019, 04:57:50 PM
I remember him mentioning the possibility of some kind of FM engine. Say what you want about the delay between announcement & release, at least they're quick on getting to a major update already. Kudos to Waldorf!
Yeah, Waldorf are making a concerted effort to “get it right”... I think that is important considering that their roll out of the Quantum (ahem, SHIPPING DELAYS) was less than stellar.


Ha! “Shipping delays”...that’s like an added feature — flanger, chorus, BBD, Reverb, shipping delays....  ;D
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Shaw on January 25, 2019, 04:58:27 PM
but unfortunately they cannot update it to 16 voices... which really is a shame
True that. 
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Paul Dither on January 25, 2019, 05:04:51 PM
but unfortunately they cannot update it to 16 voices... which really is a shame

Fair point. In my opinion they could have done without the analog filters which would have cut costs in the domain of signal conversion from digital to analog and back. That would also have made a 16-voice (or more) instrument much more likely.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Paul Dither on January 25, 2019, 05:06:03 PM
Ha! “Shipping delays”...that’s like an added feature — flanger, chorus, BBD, Reverb, shipping delays....  ;D

Those shipping delays are even kind of analog…
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Razmo on January 25, 2019, 05:37:27 PM
Well... i think that one of it's biggest selling points are in fact the analog filters... if they were not there, honestly, I'd rather be looking at the Kyra
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Paul Dither on January 25, 2019, 05:47:30 PM
Well... i think that one of it's biggest selling points are in fact the analog filters... if they were not there, honestly, I'd rather be looking at the Kyra

Technically, the most interesting things in the Quantum really happen before the audio signal hits the analog filters, which are also not as colorful in terms of character like let's say Moog's, SEM-based, or the PX's filters for example, which in turn is also a post-Microwave/Wave Waldorf tradition. That doesn't make the Kyra a direct competitor though, since its synth engine is far more conventional by comparison, although its based on upgraded technology of course.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: LoboLives on January 25, 2019, 09:42:45 PM
While I think this NAMM was more guitar oriented, I do think Superbooth or Knobcon is more likely to see some bigger synth releases and announcements.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Razmo on January 26, 2019, 01:57:39 AM
Well... i think that one of it's biggest selling points are in fact the analog filters... if they were not there, honestly, I'd rather be looking at the Kyra

Technically, the most interesting things in the Quantum really happen before the audio signal hits the analog filters, which are also not as colorful in terms of character like let's say Moog's, SEM-based, or the PX's filters for example, which in turn is also a post-Microwave/Wave Waldorf tradition. That doesn't make the Kyra a direct competitor though, since its synth engine is far more conventional by comparison, although its based on upgraded technology of course.

To me it's the combination of the digital front end and the analog filters that does it... not any of them stand alone... I honestly have no interest in the digital engine alone because it has the typical Waldorf digital sound to it which is rather sterile and well... digital... I've always liked Waldorfs hybrid and analog products, but really none of their 100% digital ones...
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Paul Dither on January 26, 2019, 05:16:00 AM
Well... i think that one of it's biggest selling points are in fact the analog filters... if they were not there, honestly, I'd rather be looking at the Kyra

Technically, the most interesting things in the Quantum really happen before the audio signal hits the analog filters, which are also not as colorful in terms of character like let's say Moog's, SEM-based, or the PX's filters for example, which in turn is also a post-Microwave/Wave Waldorf tradition. That doesn't make the Kyra a direct competitor though, since its synth engine is far more conventional by comparison, although its based on upgraded technology of course.

To me it's the combination of the digital front end and the analog filters that does it... not any of them stand alone... I honestly have no interest in the digital engine alone because it has the typical Waldorf digital sound to it which is rather sterile and well... digital... I've always liked Waldorfs hybrid and analog products, but really none of their 100% digital ones...

Sure, it remains a matter of taste in the end. I just meant that the really interesting things in the Quantum take place in the digital front end from the POV of innovation alone. All I can tell from the online examples and personal experience is that the Quantum is certainly no instant gratification machine and whether or not you use its analog filters doesn't change that. Plus: the latter have a rather surgical quality, meaning that they don't ooze tons of character once you activate them, which is why I think it wouldn't make a huge sonic difference if they wouldn't be there.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: SandyS1 on January 26, 2019, 12:57:50 PM

To me it's the combination of the digital front end and the analog filters that does it... not any of them stand alone... I honestly have no interest in the digital engine alone because it has the typical Waldorf digital sound to it which is rather sterile and well... digital... I've always liked Waldorfs hybrid and analog products, but really none of their 100% digital ones...

I'm discovering I like hybrids most of all. (Though I'd still like a flagship analog poly, but that's a different quandary.)

Along those lines, I really liked the video I think maybe loopop did of just going through the presets of the Minilogue XD: it was really impressive and I liked it more than the Prologue demos--I think possibly because they improved the filter. Pity it's only 4 voices, but the price makes me less leery of it than the Prologue.

I'm still not sure it's what I want right now, but it does seem to have a very wide sweet spot and some great, full-sounding sounds.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Paul Dither on January 26, 2019, 05:49:42 PM
And fresh from NAMM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-zELjyoklA

https://youtu.be/ZU9I-7WfHBA
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: megamarkd on January 26, 2019, 05:56:04 PM
They have got Mutable Instruments in on the design and are using a great number of their oscillator algorithms in it.

Well, Arturia used code from Plaits while the marketing copy throws around terms like "collaboration," but Mutable Instruments had nothing to do with the design, and Émile was only shown the thing when it was pretty much done. She doesn't object to the use of the open-source code, but she does sort of object to the word "collaboration."

Yeah, that's a little rude to do that.  Not quite as rude as another French company, but still....
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Paul Dither on January 26, 2019, 06:01:39 PM
They have got Mutable Instruments in on the design and are using a great number of their oscillator algorithms in it.

Well, Arturia used code from Plaits while the marketing copy throws around terms like "collaboration," but Mutable Instruments had nothing to do with the design, and Émile was only shown the thing when it was pretty much done. She doesn't object to the use of the open-source code, but she does sort of object to the word "collaboration."

Yeah, that's a little rude to do that.  Not quite as rude as another French company, but still....

Here's the full statement by Émilie:

Quote
Hello peeps!

There is a lot of noise on the internet regarding the Arturia Microfreak.

Let me clarify a couple of things.

First of all, Plaits’ code is open-source, which means that anybody is free to use it, as long as they credit me somewhere (it can be in a product description page, or a footnote in a downloadable manual, or an “about” dialog). This is why you can find Mutable Instruments’ DSP code in the Korg Prologue, the Axoloti, the Organelle, VCV Rack, and plenty of other bits of software or hardware. This is not stealing. Plaits’ code is a summary of everything I’ve learnt about making rich and balanced sound sources controlled by a few parameters, it’s for everyone to enjoy.

Now, regarding the Microfreak.

Arturia had been in the process of developing a hybrid synth for a while, and contacted me about using some of Plaits’ code inside. I had no objection to that.

In May, they invited me to their headquarters for a product development meeting where they showed me mockups of the Microfreak. It was fairly clear at this point that it was their product. The feature set, UX, sound engine were all already set in stone. The product obviously followed Arturia’s design language and branding. My expected contribution to the project was none: Arturia’s engineers would do their own thing with my code, the tone character and sound design was their responsibility. It was pointless for me to suggest features and ideas, or spill the beans about ideas I wanted to keep for upcoming Mutable Instruments products, and this awkward event felt more like a focus group.

Arturia offered to mention something like “Oscillator code from Mutable Instruments” in the product description, which is my preferred form of citation. No monetary compensation has ever been discussed – which is fair, because I provided exactly 0 hour of work and 0 original line of code. No contract has been drafted or signed.

Arturia contacted me back last week with a photo of the finished product. I never had the opportunity to playtest it. I have not been asked to approve or veto any promotional material.

As you can see, my involvement was fairly limited.

I don’t feel wronged. It’s their product.

However, I feel uneasy when people got excited, seeing it described as a collaboration between Mutable Instruments and Arturia, because none of the technical and design choices involved in this product originate from me. I have been quite disconcerted by the private messages congratulating me for this release and achievement. I know some people have been waiting for a Mutable Instruments keyboard synth, or at least non-modular product, for a while. Well, this is not it. That’s what I wanted to say to the world. I don’t want people to associate any negative experience they could have with this product with Mutable Instruments. I don’t want people to think that I endorsed or at least authorized some aesthetic decisions regarding this product or the communication surrounding it.

With its focus on local production, open-source, deliberate lack of marketing and advertising, Mutable Instruments is an unusual company. It’s stimulating and fun, but somewhat dangerous too. Turning Arturia into an enemy – those talks of boycotts and those tweets demanding justice – is only adding fuel to the fire and increasing the risks of getting me attacked in ways I don’t expect and I am not protected against.

If you care about me, move on! I need a lot of strength and energy at the moment, and it should all be focused on finishing new products.

So please let Arturia enjoy their release party, it’s hard work to ship a product. Buy their product if you think you’ll have fun and make good music with it, don’t buy otherwise. Buy Mutable Instruments products (or the Softube clones) if you want to fund me, or build your own and give the money to charities.

Love,
Émilie

Source: https://forum.mutable-instruments.net/t/about-the-microfreak/14878
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Paul Dither on January 26, 2019, 06:08:35 PM
And the other Dave demonstrating the Trident module:

https://youtu.be/dhBRItwQhag
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: megamarkd on January 26, 2019, 09:03:06 PM
Here's the full statement by Émilie:
[snip]
Source: https://forum.mutable-instruments.net/t/about-the-microfreak/14878

Thank you Paul for the information, helps with to have the official story.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Paul Dither on January 27, 2019, 03:00:18 AM
Here's the full statement by Émilie:
[snip]
Source: https://forum.mutable-instruments.net/t/about-the-microfreak/14878

Thank you Paul for the information, helps with to have the official story.

It should also be noted that Arturia corrected the wording and apologized for what happened and how it came across. So fair play on all sides now and case closed.
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Shaw on January 27, 2019, 07:00:51 AM
Has Sequential or 8dio said when the new PX Add-On Pack’s will start rolling out?  I’m really loving the Last Prophet pack...
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Paul Dither on January 27, 2019, 07:09:00 AM
Has Sequential or 8dio said when the new PX Add-On Pack’s will start rolling out?  I’m really loving the Last Prophet pack...

No. The official statement says: "The add-ons packs will be available for download from 8Dio’s website at a date to be determined after the show."
Title: Re: NAMM 2019 discussion.
Post by: Shaw on January 27, 2019, 07:19:07 AM
Has Sequential or 8dio said when the new PX Add-On Pack’s will start rolling out?  I’m really loving the Last Prophet pack...

No. The official statement says: "The add-ons packs will be available for download from 8Dio’s website at a date to be determined after the show."
Godspeed.