The Official Sequential/DSI Forum

SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Prophet 12 => Topic started by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 01:09:22 PM

Title: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 01:09:22 PM
Dslsynth just gave me the bad news.  Woe, woe!  A classic is coming to an end.

https://www.sequential.com/2018/11/prophet-12-limited-edition/

Such a masterpiece, and I only got a taste of it.  Such is life. 

I do hope Sequential will have a worthy replacement for it.  The nature and price of the Prophet X/XL leave many of us behind.  I hope something P12-esque is forthcoming to fill the ($) gap between the Rev2 and the PX.  And I hope it's BLUE!
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Tarjeijazz on November 15, 2018, 01:19:20 PM
The P12 will live on in all of our homes! I will never sell it! I love it so much. It has taught me so much on my synth journey. It wasmy second synth :) thank you P12<3
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Good for you.  Hold onto a classic.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Gomjab on November 15, 2018, 01:38:23 PM
Wow.  Farewell!  I got a great deal on an open box P12 module this year. I love the sound but pine for those physical controls on the keyboard version.  Alas Iím out of space and money for any more big ticket items.

I assume the module is also discontinued?  I saw no mention of it in press release.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 01:45:56 PM
I had only one month with a Prophet 12, and I realized my negative assessments of it were all wrong.  Mea maxima culpa.  It sounded so much better in my little music room than on all the video demonstrations I had watched over and over.  A lesson learned. 

The next obvious question is, What about the Pro 2?  Sequential has given it some tender loving care recently, which perhaps is a sign it will be around for a while.  But these instruments tend to be moved around in groups.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: SandyS1 on November 15, 2018, 01:51:43 PM
I'm sad it's ending, but I'm also glad I got one.

I do hope the LE looks better in person than it does in that photo...as it is it's not giving me any regrets about having the standard color scheme.

Then again, lots of things look and sound better in person.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: dslsynth on November 15, 2018, 01:53:48 PM
My understanding is that the Prophet 12 hardware architecture do not match the architecture of their current products (P6 and on) and that Prophet Rev2 were made using their current DSP/FPGA approach thereby essentially doubling the number of voices for the same price.

So maybe they are working on an updated version with more voices at a better price? A Prophet 16 with voice architecture elements from the Pro 2 voice could be "quite interesting".

Time will tell!
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Tarjeijazz on November 15, 2018, 01:58:06 PM
I didnt know you finally got a P12 Sacred! Congrats!! It is such a monster right? It just continues to amaze me as i find more and more things to do with it!

What magic have you discovered the time you have spent with it? Any thoughts to share?
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: dslsynth on November 15, 2018, 01:58:50 PM
The next obvious question is, What about the Pro 2?

Maybe Sequential have something to say on this?
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 02:01:00 PM
I didnt know you finally got a P12 Sacred! Congrats!! It is such a monster right? It just continues to amaze me as i find more and more things to do with it!

What magic have you discovered the time you have spent with it? Any thoughts to share?

I wish!  I only borrowed a Prophet 12 for a month.  My intention was to finally buy one, but I'm not in a good way these days, so I'll have to let this one go.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Tarjeijazz on November 15, 2018, 02:04:03 PM
Aha! I see.

Same with me. I shouldnt have bought that Pro 2 some time ago. But then again, awww yeaahhh!
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 02:06:16 PM
Yes, that little Pro 2 is one mighty monster.  I would definitely have gone for it, if only they had made a module version as well.  But not to get off topic here.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Tarjeijazz on November 15, 2018, 02:13:20 PM
I wonder if the discontinuation of the P12 is due to poor sales, or because sequential is planning a new type of synth that will fill the gap that the p12 now leaves.....
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: dslsynth on November 15, 2018, 02:15:19 PM
Yes, that little Pro 2 is one mighty monster.  I would definitely have gone for it, if only they had made a module version as well.  But not to get off topic here.

What one can say about the Pro 2 - besides it being an amazing voice architecture with a great UI - is that its an expensive voice. I am sure it can be done more affordable these days using their DSP/FPGA approach. So I would not be too surprised to see it being discontinued at some point in the future to be replaced by an updated design. In fact I would hope that will happen at some point. But so far lets see what happens and if Prophet 12 receives a worthy successor. One could suspect it to be Rev 2'ed!
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 02:18:37 PM
I wonder if the discontinuation of the P12 is due to poor sales, or because sequential is planning a new type of synth that will fill the gap that the p12 now leaves....

The company usually discontinues one instrument when they've got something else ready to replace it.  If I remember correctly, we went from the retirement of the Poly Evolver Keyboard pretty quickly to the announcement of the Prophet 12, and from the Prophet '08 to the Rev2.  And now that the Prophet X/XL are available, out goes the P12.  But it would be hard to imagine another new instrument is ready.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: proteus-ix on November 15, 2018, 02:29:30 PM

So maybe they are working on an updated version with more voices at a better price? A Prophet 16 with voice architecture elements from the Pro 2 voice could be "quite interesting".


Knowing Dave, I'd put my money on a Prophet 24 if that's the strategy.  I'm guessing it's going to be a P12 / PolyEvolver lovechild.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: proteus-ix on November 15, 2018, 02:30:57 PM
But it would be hard to imagine another new instrument is ready.

But it's not hard to imagine it will be ready to announce at NAMM and ship May-ish...  around my birthday.  :D
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 02:31:29 PM
Knowing Dave, I'd put my money on a Prophet 24 if that's the strategy.  I'm guessing it's going to be a P12 / PolyEvolver lovechild.

 :) :D ;D
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: LoboLives on November 15, 2018, 02:37:29 PM
I knew this would happen. The P12, as amazing as it was (as is the Pro 2 and Mophox4), was a bit behind the rest of their catalog. No sequencer, no digital effects, etc. If anything, I think this is great news because I see something just as good, if not better coming next that will likely blow the P12 out of the water, be it a digital oscillator/analog filter synth like the P12 was or something more along the lines of the Poly Evolver with its analog AND digital oscillators. Regardless I see the next synth having linear FM, VS wavetables, dual effects, sequencers and maybe even multitimbrality and I think that all the current P12 owners will gladly rush out to get.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Tarjeijazz on November 15, 2018, 02:40:16 PM
I wonder if the discontinuation of the P12 is due to poor sales, or because sequential is planning a new type of synth that will fill the gap that the p12 now leaves....

The company usually discontinues one instrument when they've got something else ready to replace it.  We went from the retirement of the Poly Evolver Keyboard pretty quickly to the announcement of the Prophet 12, and from the Prophet '08 to the Reve2.  But the Prophet X/XL are brand new, so I can't imagine what's next.

I do feel that sequential has taken a slightly more comercial approach ever since the p6 (not that im an expert on economics or synths, just a feeling). While the focus previously was more on the inovation of the "symbiosis of technology and art" (does my quote make sense)?

I hope i dont come over as rude or anything, i could be wrong, and i love sequential from the bottom of my heart. I have been texting more with sequential support the last month than with my girlfriend, so......"..."...

Anyway,
If there is some truth to my assessment then i would asume that the next synth will be a kind of powerhouse in the vein of the moog one, with a ton of the traditional synth specs (filters, voices, lfos etc), or maybe they will issue out something more affordable like Korg does with the minilogue and the volca series. The prophet x is such a big synth and investment that im unsure they will release another huge beast as their next instrument. Concerning the idea of making smaller and more affordable synths alla Korg, i think it would mean a pretty big change in how the company works internally related to marketing and support, in addition to the sequential brand. I dont know :p

I think we will see more of what i described above and not some new and crazy instrument that pushes the envelope(generatorlolz) on synthinovation.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: dslsynth on November 15, 2018, 02:40:47 PM
Knowing Dave, I'd put my money on a Prophet 24 if that's the strategy.  I'm guessing it's going to be a P12 / PolyEvolver lovechild.

Lots of hope out there but lets see what happens as constrained designs are a Sequential signature. I would suspect a Prophet 16 rather than a Prophet 24 though. What I would be most curious about is how the oscillator waveforms will be and if user waveshapes will be supported. But its so easy to dream about a lot of interesting features that may never pass The Dave Filter (TM) and hence make it into an actual Sequential product.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 03:06:50 PM
Robot Heart wrote this on another thread:

"We're not in the habit of making rev 2 synths, so no, there will not be a P12 Rev 2."

That suggests to me there will not be another form of the Prophet 12 either, including one with expanded voices.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: LoboLives on November 15, 2018, 03:12:16 PM
Something I've noticed
Prophet 6 is almost a modern incarnation of the Prophet-5
AS1 is a modern incarnation of the Pro 1
Prophet REV 2 is similar to things like the Prophet 600 or Six Trak (as in a more affordable but highly capable synth)
Prophet X is a modern Prophet 2000.

That leaves (among other things) the Prophet VS to get it's own modern representation.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: LoboLives on November 15, 2018, 03:15:43 PM
I do hope we will see a bit of variety visually from Sequential tho...I do like the white P12 look but I really still love....

Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: dslsynth on November 15, 2018, 03:22:23 PM
Robot Heart wrote this on another thread:

"We're not in the habit of making rev 2 synths, so no, there will not be a P12 Rev 2."

Link?
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 03:25:08 PM
Robot Heart wrote this on another thread:

"We're not in the habit of making rev 2 synths, so no, there will not be a P12 Rev 2."

Link?

https://forum.sequential.com/index.php/topic,2459.0.html
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 03:26:53 PM
I do hope we will see a bit of variety visually from Sequential tho...I do like the white P12 look but I really still love....

I love the Poly Evolver Keyboard just the way it is.  It's the most gorgeous synthesizer I've ever seen.

I agree - the Prophet VS is increasingly a synthesizer of interest.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 03:39:40 PM
Pardon me, but I just love this picture - a nest of Evolvers.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sleep of Reason on November 15, 2018, 04:33:55 PM
It does feel like the right time for the resurgence of vector synthesis... Either way, I'm sure many will be glad to see the PA397 start to be phased out.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 15, 2018, 07:29:27 PM
One thing that's additionally unique about the Limited Edition White: it's a chance to get a Prophet 12 with the new "Sequential" logo on it.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: jdt9517 on November 15, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
Electronics have advanced so much since the P-12 was released.  I'm sure its replacement will be a big improvement on an already great synth.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Mr Kay on November 16, 2018, 12:15:56 AM
Sad to read this new, but it was predicable since Chris was hitting the limits of the hardware while adding the linear FM, so no possibilities to add exciting new features able to re-boost the sales...

Anyway I'll preciously keep my own P'12 I called "Modulator"  ;D
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Quatschmacher on November 16, 2018, 12:29:55 AM
After playing the Pro 2 quite a bit this week and comparing it with the P12 (and P6 and OB-6) Iíd love to see a kind of poly version of the Pro 2 with all its awesomeness (those filters sound gorgeous) along with the P12ís bi-timbrality and the FX of the VCO synths.

Whatever the folks at Sequential are cooking up, Iím sure itíll be astounding.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Tarjeijazz on November 16, 2018, 12:39:04 AM
Isnt the p12 already kind of a version of the pro 2? (I own both btw), they are different in that the p2 interacts more with other gear with its two midi outs and the cv connectivity. Also the sequencer and filters ++ but other than that, they are fairly similar.

Id like to see something with more than bi-timbrallty. I feel that more layers = exponentially more complexity
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Quatschmacher on November 16, 2018, 02:38:40 AM
Isnt the p12 already kind of a version of the pro 2? (I own both btw), they are different in that the p2 interacts more with other gear with its two midi outs and the cv connectivity. Also the sequencer and filters ++ but other than that, they are fairly similar.

Id like to see something with more than bi-timbrallty. I feel that more layers = exponentially more complexity

In a way I guess it is, though no reason that it canít be improved upon.  I much preferred the sound of the Pro 2 though. Iím actually after a poly and was looking at the P12 but much preferred the filters of the Pro 2 so would love those on a P12 successor. Also I much preferred the keybed on the P6/OB-6/Rev2 to that of the P12.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Chaparral on November 16, 2018, 03:34:53 AM
What a loss. I only have one keyboard (my P12) and I was saving up for another P12 so I could gig without risking it and losing my 250 quadraphonic voices. Still, at 61 I probably shouldn't be lugging my gear around and the added effort of moving 4 PA speakers by myself I could do without.
 It is a shame that we won't be going out to acoustically exciting places any more - ancient churches, castles and swimming pools, but at least I won't have to worry about damaging such an expensive bit of kit. I am glad that Dave is developing new machines, it's just a shame I never got to fund a backup for mine.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: SandyS1 on November 16, 2018, 06:24:01 AM
I love the Poly Evolver Keyboard just the way it is.  It's the most gorgeous synthesizer I've ever seen.
It does have a Polysix/OB-8 vibe to it.

That being said, the biggest thing holding me back from purchasing a Poly Evolver is a) just one won't have enough voices for me, and b) the price on the used market for even the rack is pretty high. I'd happily pay more for a new synth with a similar architecture and VS capabilities.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sacred Synthesis on November 16, 2018, 08:05:55 AM
I love the Poly Evolver Keyboard just the way it is.  It's the most gorgeous synthesizer I've ever seen.
It does have a Polysix/OB-8 vibe to it.

That being said, the biggest thing holding me back from purchasing a Poly Evolver is a) just one won't have enough voices for me, and b) the price on the used market for even the rack is pretty high. I'd happily pay more for a new synth with a similar architecture and VS capabilities.

Yes, indeed; those are the undeniable disadvantages of a Poly Evolver Keyboard.  An eight-voice Evolver configuration will cost you about five thousand dollars these days, and by modern standards, that's unacceptable.  But from the perspective of one who's past all that, the PEK is a irreplaceable synthesizer and - in all its biting, hissing, aliasing hybrid glory - just brimming with personality.  And that's coming from a guy with very conservative traditional musical taste.   

An Evolver is not for the person who wants a standard work horse/work station type synthesizer, or a modern technological achievement with endless features.  And it can't substitute for a Prophet 12, nor vise versa.  An Evolver is for the person who wants an Evolver.  It's a musical world unto itself.  Pardon what sounds like hyperbole, but to me, the PEK is up there with the Minimoog Model D.  And look at all the shortcomings of a Minimoog!  Nevertheless, each instrument is a classic. 

I have no doubt that one day the Poly Evolver Keyboard will be a most coveted instrument.  Despite all the usual arguments against it, the PEK is an instrument Sequential should revisit.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: LoboLives on November 16, 2018, 08:12:18 AM
Perhaps itís time we start writing in that ďThe Next New DSI InstrumentĒ thread and start bouncing around some ideas.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: BobTheDog on November 16, 2018, 10:04:07 AM
A bit sad about this one, hopefully they have something similar coming up.

Still for me my favourite DSI synth. Hopefully they will replace it with something fully digital.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Mr Kay on November 16, 2018, 10:36:27 AM
Isnt the p12 already kind of a version of the pro 2? (I own both btw), they are different in that the p2 interacts more with other gear with its two midi outs and the cv connectivity. Also the sequencer and filters ++ but other than that, they are fairly similar.

Actually, the Pro 2 was a one voice P'12 with a lot of extra features and the filters later used on the P6 and OB6  ;)
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: LoboLives on November 16, 2018, 11:42:17 AM
A bit sad about this one, hopefully they have something similar coming up.

Still for me my favourite DSI synth. Hopefully they will replace it with something fully digital.

Except for the filters and amp. Iím pretty sure Sequential will always have an analog filter and analog amp in their synths.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Frocktar on November 16, 2018, 12:46:57 PM
Golly Iím glad I bought my P12K when I did.  Iíd had the module version for a while and just loved it, such a creative synth, Iíve made some really incredible  evolving sounds with her. 

Anyway, bought the keys version while it was on sale in Australia. Soon afterward it went up, assumably due to the Aussie dollar to over $500 above its pre-sale price. 

I guess there is always the 2nd hand market but Iím very glad I got it new when I did, or Iíd be rushing out now and paying the current pricing.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Frocktar on November 16, 2018, 01:10:05 PM
.....hopefully they will send her off properly.....by adding Beat Sync :)

Ppppllleeaaasseee!!!!!
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Razmo on November 16, 2018, 04:48:03 PM
I somehow had a feeling this was about to happen... so now this synth is not on my list anymore because I'm pretty certain that the next synth we will see from Sequential will be it's replacement...
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: LoboLives on November 16, 2018, 07:23:04 PM
I somehow had a feeling this was about to happen... so now this synth is not on my list anymore because I'm pretty certain that the next synth we will see from Sequential will be it's replacement...

And likely a million times better with more capabilities.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: jazzygb1 on November 16, 2018, 07:28:09 PM
Oh wow - that's sad and yet great too.
I think the LE edition looks ace! :)
I absolutely LOVE my Prophet 12 and it being discontinued might result in it becoming a 'classic' - I can't think of a modern synth more deserving of the label.
It'd be brilliant if DSI/Sequential released a Prophet 16, especially if it mixed both analogue oscillators from the REV2 with the digital one's of the P12 - that'd be mega.
Can't wait to see what they do next, but whatever it is it's unlikely I'll ever relinquish my Prophet 12 for it.
I do hope whatever its successor is gets a better keybed though - it's the only thing I'd change about the synth.
In fact if they've given a new keyed to the LE, I may try and get one.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Quatschmacher on November 17, 2018, 01:43:16 AM
I do hope whatever its successor is gets a better keybed though

Iím with you there. I guess thereís a strong chance theyíll use the keybed used in the Rev2 which feels much nicer.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Razmo on November 17, 2018, 01:56:17 AM
Here is my guess on what the replacement will be:

With the disappearance of the 12, there will be no digital front end synth in the products anymore exept the X, which is not really a replacement, so I bet it'll be a synth with a digital front end. I do not believe it will be a direct replacement, but rather something new, just with the same structure of Digital OSC -> Analog Filters. I do not believe in a P12 rev2, or an Evolver rev2... it'll be something else.

I bet that with the new stereo SSM chips in the X, that we'll probably see a synth using those, and thus a true stereo synth, so that far we could probably see a bit of the Evolver, but it'll be more like a Prophet X, with the sampling functionality taken out, and replaced with more powerful digital oscillators.

I also think we'll see at least 8 stereo voices /16 mono voices like on the X. And of course the now standard FX engine in the end and the TP9/S keybed.

Id be happy with such a synth because I already have the Curtis filter sound in my REV2... that was the only thing that irritated me a bit with the P12 because I always thought that the combi of digital osc. and Curtis filters sounded a bit flat and uninspiring... not bad, but I'd definitely rather have a new digital front end synth from Sequential with the SSM filters or maybe even something with a state variable in it.

I'm excited to see what the replacement is going to be :)
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: LoboLives on November 17, 2018, 02:18:33 AM
Here is my guess on what the replacement will be:

With the disappearance of the 12, there will be no digital front end synth in the products anymore exept the X, which is not really a replacement, so I bet it'll be a synth with a digital front end. I do not believe it will be a direct replacement, but rather something new, just with the same structure of Digital OSC -> Analog Filters. I do not believe in a P12 rev2, or an Evolver rev2... it'll be something else.

I bet that with the new stereo SSM chips in the X, that we'll probably see a synth using those, and thus a true stereo synth, so that far we could probably see a bit of the Evolver, but it'll be more like a Prophet X, with the sampling functionality taken out, and replaced with more powerful digital oscillators.

I also think we'll see at least 8 stereo voices /16 mono voices like on the X. And of course the now standard FX engine in the end and the TP9/S keybed.

Id be happy with such a synth because I already have the Curtis filter sound in my REV2... that was the only thing that irritated me a bit with the P12 because I always thought that the combi of digital osc. and Curtis filters sounded a bit flat and uninspiring... not bad, but I'd definitely rather have a new digital front end synth from Sequential with the SSM filters or maybe even something with a state variable in it.

I'm excited to see what the replacement is going to be :)

I wonder if the oscillator section will have a small OLED screen like how the PX does for the samples but instead this shows all the wavetables. Also with Dave mentioning they are working on multitimbrality if this will be the first new Sequential synth to offer more than two engines.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Razmo on November 17, 2018, 03:15:38 AM
Here is my guess on what the replacement will be:

With the disappearance of the 12, there will be no digital front end synth in the products anymore exept the X, which is not really a replacement, so I bet it'll be a synth with a digital front end. I do not believe it will be a direct replacement, but rather something new, just with the same structure of Digital OSC -> Analog Filters. I do not believe in a P12 rev2, or an Evolver rev2... it'll be something else.

I bet that with the new stereo SSM chips in the X, that we'll probably see a synth using those, and thus a true stereo synth, so that far we could probably see a bit of the Evolver, but it'll be more like a Prophet X, with the sampling functionality taken out, and replaced with more powerful digital oscillators.

I also think we'll see at least 8 stereo voices /16 mono voices like on the X. And of course the now standard FX engine in the end and the TP9/S keybed.

Id be happy with such a synth because I already have the Curtis filter sound in my REV2... that was the only thing that irritated me a bit with the P12 because I always thought that the combi of digital osc. and Curtis filters sounded a bit flat and uninspiring... not bad, but I'd definitely rather have a new digital front end synth from Sequential with the SSM filters or maybe even something with a state variable in it.

I'm excited to see what the replacement is going to be :)

I wonder if the oscillator section will have a small OLED screen like how the PX does for the samples but instead this shows all the wavetables. Also with Dave mentioning they are working on multitimbrality if this will be the first new Sequential synth to offer more than two engines.

When you look at the past synths, it's obvious that Sequential is reusing past technology... with the Pro2 we saw part of the oscillators of the P12 reused... with the P6 we saw the new FX section which has been reused on any synth after that one... with the X we see part of the P12 oscillators too... again and again they are reusing old technology, slightly changed and enhanced in some way added with something new... this is why I believe that the next synth will very well have the same genes from some of the past, and the most likely is to reuse the SSM chips from the X for something else... at the same time we see that the TP9S and the FX engine is now a standard... likewise has the dual engine been, so I hardly believe it'll be multitimbral... if they are working on multitimbrality i bet it is a special product aimed at studio use more than live use... an "oddity" like the Tempest was.

Everything is speculation based on experience... but I'm pretty certain that we'll see another digital front end synth because the removal of the Prophet 12 leaves a BIG HOLE in the different types of synthesis in Sequential's repertoire now. I simply cannot imagine Dave wanting this... something has to compete with the PEAK, QUANTUM etc...
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sleep of Reason on November 17, 2018, 06:37:36 AM
Whatever it is, it would be quite bullheaded to feature the PA397 considering all the flak that filter receives and all the options available these days.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: jazzygb1 on November 17, 2018, 07:24:22 AM
If they do replace it with a new synth I hope they keep the P12's big OLED display.
I'm not a fan of the tiny OLED used in the REV2 and even more importantly, keep the numeric Keypad and dedicated bank select buttons from the Prophet 12 too.
Having them makes navigation MUCH quicker and I can't emphasise enough how much the lack of both these things on the REV2 frustrates me sometimes.
I've noticed that the keypad and bank select buttons have been dropped on the X too! :(
Oh well, just another reason to love my Prophet 12 I suppose! :)
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: jazzygb1 on November 17, 2018, 07:28:10 AM
I really dig the new Sequential plate on the front of the LE though.
It'd be great if DSI would sell the plates separately so original owners could pimp our existing Prophet 12's! :)
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: LoboLives on November 17, 2018, 08:22:25 PM
Here is my guess on what the replacement will be:

With the disappearance of the 12, there will be no digital front end synth in the products anymore exept the X, which is not really a replacement, so I bet it'll be a synth with a digital front end. I do not believe it will be a direct replacement, but rather something new, just with the same structure of Digital OSC -> Analog Filters. I do not believe in a P12 rev2, or an Evolver rev2... it'll be something else.

I bet that with the new stereo SSM chips in the X, that we'll probably see a synth using those, and thus a true stereo synth, so that far we could probably see a bit of the Evolver, but it'll be more like a Prophet X, with the sampling functionality taken out, and replaced with more powerful digital oscillators.

I also think we'll see at least 8 stereo voices /16 mono voices like on the X. And of course the now standard FX engine in the end and the TP9/S keybed.

Id be happy with such a synth because I already have the Curtis filter sound in my REV2... that was the only thing that irritated me a bit with the P12 because I always thought that the combi of digital osc. and Curtis filters sounded a bit flat and uninspiring... not bad, but I'd definitely rather have a new digital front end synth from Sequential with the SSM filters or maybe even something with a state variable in it.

I'm excited to see what the replacement is going to be :)

I wonder if the oscillator section will have a small OLED screen like how the PX does for the samples but instead this shows all the wavetables. Also with Dave mentioning they are working on multitimbrality if this will be the first new Sequential synth to offer more than two engines.

When you look at the past synths, it's obvious that Sequential is reusing past technology... with the Pro2 we saw part of the oscillators of the P12 reused... with the P6 we saw the new FX section which has been reused on any synth after that one... with the X we see part of the P12 oscillators too... again and again they are reusing old technology, slightly changed and enhanced in some way added with something new... this is why I believe that the next synth will very well have the same genes from some of the past, and the most likely is to reuse the SSM chips from the X for something else... at the same time we see that the TP9S and the FX engine is now a standard... likewise has the dual engine been, so I hardly believe it'll be multitimbral... if they are working on multitimbrality i bet it is a special product aimed at studio use more than live use... an "oddity" like the Tempest was.

Everything is speculation based on experience... but I'm pretty certain that we'll see another digital front end synth because the removal of the Prophet 12 leaves a BIG HOLE in the different types of synthesis in Sequential's repertoire now. I simply cannot imagine Dave wanting this... something has to compete with the PEAK, QUANTUM etc...

Give me those Vector and P12 wavetables and run them into that SSM filter and add some sequencers and dual effects and I'm good to go....just make sure it's blue.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: SandyS1 on November 18, 2018, 02:01:19 PM
Give me those Vector and P12 wavetables and run them into that SSM filter and add some sequencers and dual effects and I'm good to go....just make sure it's blue.

+1, especially if stereo filters like the X and PEK. Also +1 on the blue.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Igglethorpe on November 18, 2018, 03:04:56 PM
Definitely saw this coming.  I too am hoping for a Prophet VS for the modern age.

Love my Prophet 12 to death.  No matter what comes out, its never leaving my studio.  It was my first DSI synth and is used in a lot of my live concerts.  It sounds amazing through a deep reverb.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Tarjeijazz on November 18, 2018, 03:11:32 PM
Can we take a moment and talk a bit about what made the Prophet 12 so great? Im not the biggest synth wizard so it would be interessting for me to know your thoughts?

I feel the design is very simplistic, With one audio path with some branching at the delay and feedback. Also the ton of mod posibilities. Is the instrument so great only because of all the content it has, or are there some particular design characteristics that make it super special?

Id love to hear your thoughts :)
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: proteus-ix on November 18, 2018, 06:11:04 PM
Can we take a moment and talk a bit about what made the Prophet 12 so great? Im not the biggest synth wizard so it would be interessting for me to know your thoughts?

I feel the design is very simplistic, With one audio path with some branching at the delay and feedback. Also the ton of mod posibilities. Is the instrument so great only because of all the content it has, or are there some particular design characteristics that make it super special?

Id love to hear your thoughts :)

What makes a Stradivarius great, they only have 4 strings?

Quality is not created by design alone, especially in synthesizers.  It's about the sum of the parts.  Or another way to say it is, to see why it has the quality it does, you have to account for ALL aspects of it's design, AND how they fit together.

First and foremost, the P12 *sounds* great, which is the main requirement for any musical instrument.  It's also ridiculously flexible for a polyphonic analog synth with programmable memory (26 sources, 97 destinations, for TWO layers!); it's basically a 12-voice modular that you can save patches on, but despite it's depth, it's close to knob-per-function.  It has a massive amount of timbral variety available just from the waveforms, tunings, AM & FM modulations, even before you hit the character or filter sections.  You can use sync, wave mod and FM at the same time.  It does 4op linear FM.  The 2 assignable strips are both position and pressure sensitive, in addition to the 2 standard wheels and aftertouch, giving you 7 dimensions of performance modulation at any time.  You can store programs in Playlists, which is a lifesaver for live performance.   It sends changes as MIDI CCs as well as NRPNs, so you can sequence performances including changes to the control panel.  And on and on.

All of these things add up to a true instrument that is crazy deep, yet fairly immediate to program (if you know what you're doing), makes it relatively easy to prepare for live performances, and gives you many expressive controls for articulating your own phrasings with your patches that simply aren't possible on other synths without additional external controllers (and that is IF they can even respond to those inputs).

There are plenty of other things to mention, but hopefully that helps you see why it's not just a simple ole "one audio path" synth.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: jazzygb1 on November 18, 2018, 08:08:44 PM
Can we take a moment and talk a bit about what made the Prophet 12 so great? Im not the biggest synth wizard so it would be interessting for me to know your thoughts?

I feel the design is very simplistic, With one audio path with some branching at the delay and feedback. Also the ton of mod posibilities. Is the instrument so great only because of all the content it has, or are there some particular design characteristics that make it super special?

Id love to hear your thoughts :)
What makes a Stradivarius great, they only have 4 strings?

Quality is not created by design alone, especially in synthesizers.  It's about the sum of the parts.  Or another way to say it is, to see why it has the quality it does, you have to account for ALL aspects of it's design, AND how they fit together.

First and foremost, the P12 *sounds* great, which is the main requirement for any musical instrument.  It's also ridiculously flexible for a polyphonic analog synth with programmable memory (26 sources, 97 destinations, for TWO layers!); it's basically a 12-voice modular that you can save patches on, but despite it's depth, it's close to knob-per-function.  It has a massive amount of timbral variety available just from the waveforms, tunings, AM & FM modulations, even before you hit the character or filter sections.  You can use sync, wave mod and FM at the same time.  It does 4op linear FM.  The 2 assignable strips are both position and pressure sensitive, in addition to the 2 standard wheels and aftertouch, giving you 7 dimensions of performance modulation at any time.  You can store programs in Playlists, which is a lifesaver for live performance.   It sends changes as MIDI CCs as well as NRPNs, so you can sequence performances including changes to the control panel.  And on and on.

All of these things add up to a true instrument that is crazy deep, yet fairly immediate to program (if you know what you're doing), makes it relatively easy to prepare for live performances, and gives you many expressive controls for articulating your own phrasings with your patches that simply aren't possible on other synths without additional external controllers (and that is IF they can even respond to those inputs).

There are plenty of other things to mention, but hopefully that helps you see why it's not just a simple ole "one audio path" synth.


+1


Very well said. :)


It's a very complete instrument. The two slider strips are great, the modulation options are excellent, the UI is very well implemented (though not perfect) and then the unique things like the 4 delays, the analogue distortion just give it something many other synth'd don't have.
I like that it has a high pass filter too - it's just great!


There's really only 2 or 3 things i'd change...


It should have a better keybed (the keyboard used is too light and aftertouch too easily accidentally triggered). The Rev2's keyboard is MUCH better.


There should be a way to solo/mute oscillators.


Beat sync for the Arp would be good too.


That said, it's still an utterly ace synth! :)



Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Frocktar on November 19, 2018, 03:15:18 AM
Too late for the keybed  (which I agree isnít as up to the standard of the synth in general), but itíd be great if they sent it off properly by adding your other two suggestions. 

Considering theyíve added beat sync to their other synths itíd really be a shame to not do this one as a proper send off. The other point you made about oscillator mute, golly Iíd never thought about that but now youíve said it I really wish that was in there too.

But beat sync, damn, I was really hoping theyíd find a way to get that in there.  Pretty unlikely now itís getting discontinued, quite a shame indeed.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Razmo on November 19, 2018, 03:56:53 AM
I wonder if the new white P12 version has a TP9S keybed... probably not, but it would be cool if it did.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Quatschmacher on November 19, 2018, 05:15:34 AM
I wonder if the new white P12 version has a TP9S keybed... probably not, but it would be cool if it did.

Not if the other dimensions of the synth remain the same; I remember one of the Sequential crew saying, when someone asked about the possibility of a keybed upgrade, that the Fatar had different dimensions so wouldnít fit.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Razmo on November 19, 2018, 05:28:24 AM
I wonder if the new white P12 version has a TP9S keybed... probably not, but it would be cool if it did.

Not if the other dimensions of the synth remain the same; I remember one of the Sequential crew saying, when someone asked about the possibility of a keybed upgrade, that the Fatar had different dimensions so wouldnít fit.

Yeah... but hope is hard to kill :D ... besides... the new case is not exactly the same... it has wood not only on the sides, but also the bottom like the P6 and OB6... and those do have the FATAR keybed... so they must have had to do some changes to the casing anyway... maybe if Sequential read this, they could answer this obvious question for us :)
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Razmo on November 19, 2018, 05:51:19 AM
Besides... I've just seen the price at Thomann... it's quite a bit higher than the price for the standard P12 keys... in fact so much that I'd not want to pay that difference just for a different color, some wood and a "Sequential" platte... if it had a TP9/S... then I'd be game... otherwise not.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: SandyS1 on November 19, 2018, 06:10:41 AM
The one I got had a couple of defective keys, and the solution was to replace the whole keybed. Even though it's made by the same manufacturer, the PCB color changed and the action is MUCH better. So it may be that later ones using the same keybed may be better because the manufacturer improved their processes/made subtle design changes.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sleep of Reason on November 19, 2018, 06:31:03 AM
the new case is not exactly the same... it has wood not only on the sides, but also the bottom like the P6 and OB6...


(https://www.musicplayers.com/reviews/keyboard/2015/images/prophet12angle.jpg)
(https://www.residentadvisor.net/images/reviews/2016/ob-6-head.jpg)
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Razmo on November 19, 2018, 07:47:51 AM
the new case is not exactly the same... it has wood not only on the sides, but also the bottom like the P6 and OB6...


(https://www.musicplayers.com/reviews/keyboard/2015/images/prophet12angle.jpg)
(https://www.residentadvisor.net/images/reviews/2016/ob-6-head.jpg)

So two models has been made? ...
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: LoboLives on November 19, 2018, 09:19:13 AM
the new case is not exactly the same... it has wood not only on the sides, but also the bottom like the P6 and OB6...


(https://www.musicplayers.com/reviews/keyboard/2015/images/prophet12angle.jpg)
(https://www.residentadvisor.net/images/reviews/2016/ob-6-head.jpg)

So two models has been made? ...

I've always known the P12 to have wood on the bottom and the OB6 to have a black bottom.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Razmo on November 19, 2018, 09:24:12 AM
yeah... it seems that I'm the one not remembering quite right... then I assume that the White P12 is nothing but a new paint job and a metal name... sorry, but if that's all there is to it, it's not worth the extra money it cost.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: LoboLives on November 19, 2018, 09:58:29 AM
yeah... it seems that I'm the one not remembering quite right... then I assume that the White P12 is nothing but a new paint job and a metal name... sorry, but if that's all there is to it, it's not worth the extra money it cost.

Actually the white P12 was the original design for the P12 I think. I could be wrong but I have a video of someone who toured the Sequential office and showed it months ago and I believe they mentioned this was originally going to have a white or black option or something when it was about to be released but eventually they just went with the black design.
Title: Re: End of the Prophet 12!
Post by: Sleep of Reason on November 19, 2018, 11:13:03 AM
There's been mention of an area with all the prototypes on display or something like that. I'm surprised no one here has asked for a video going through all of them... Would be super interesting.