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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Sequential Prophet X => Topic started by: mp3 on October 18, 2018, 10:26:42 AM

Title: Prophet XL?
Post by: mp3 on October 18, 2018, 10:26:42 AM
Details please???
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mp3 on October 18, 2018, 11:28:48 AM
So far there's this in the SOS Prophet X review:

(https://static.gearslutz.com/board/imgext.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmnoq.com%2Fresources%2Fprophet-xl.jpg&h=32a1cfb415ae87fe4f369d27c77dac6f)

So... Assuming the feature set is identical between the two models (and that's an assumption of course), the last remaining detail would be the keybed. I've got a few days left to return my PX, so I'll be awaiting word on that.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: cshorte on October 18, 2018, 12:00:55 PM
I like the idea of a 76 key PX but I plan to stick with my 61 key model. For me, 61 keys is more portable. Plus, I maybe interested in the Moog One+ Ö
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: LoboLives on October 18, 2018, 12:52:25 PM
I hope this isn't the "new" synth rumored to be released. I think we should wait until the USER sampling and new sound packs for the PX are implemented before we start worrying about more keys.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mildwest on October 18, 2018, 12:58:48 PM
I hope this isn't the "new" synth rumored to be released. I think we should wait until the USER sampling and new sound packs for the PX are implemented before we start worrying about more keys.

At least it looks like the features will be in both, I could care less about the keyed myself but if an improved version came out six months later without any path for early adopters I may have lost my mind in anger. In the end DSI always seems to do the right thing though.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mildwest on October 18, 2018, 01:05:25 PM
Knob and button layout look the same too. That is a good omen for these, hopefully, having feature parity outside of the keybed.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mp3 on October 18, 2018, 01:17:13 PM
Well I'm personally disappointed by the TP/9S in my PX, so I'm anxious to see what keybed they chose. If its a good one, I'm trading up immediately...
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: cbmd on October 18, 2018, 01:21:46 PM
I hope this isn't the "new" synth rumored to be released. I think we should wait until the USER sampling and new sound packs for the PX are implemented before we start worrying about more keys.

WE have already implemented USER sampling and ADD on pack addition functionality in an internally released OS version.  We are now awaiting finalization of the USER SAMPLE MAPPING/EDITOR application to be complete, though we already have BETA versions of the software which are currently working.  8DIO plans to release the ADD on packs in the very near future.

Also worth noting that the only individual concerned with adding more keys is in charge of industrial/hardware design and does not work on the software for our instruments.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mildwest on October 18, 2018, 01:33:45 PM
I hope this isn't the "new" synth rumored to be released. I think we should wait until the USER sampling and new sound packs for the PX are implemented before we start worrying about more keys.

WE have already implemented USER sampling and ADD on pack addition functionality in an internally released OS version.  We are now awaiting finalization of the USER SAMPLE MAPPING/EDITOR application to be complete, though we already have BETA versions of the software which are currently working.  8DIO plans to release the ADD on packs in the very near future.

Also worth noting that the only individual concerned with adding more keys is in charge of industrial/hardware design and does not work on the software for our instruments.

Very excited for the improvements CBMD. Now that Sound on Sound has spoiled the punchline can you talk about the new features in the firmware outside of 32 voice? If not, can you at least confirm that there will be feature parity between the two versions (original X and XL) outside of hardware differences in keybed and number of keys? If not, what else will be different and is there an option for users to upgrade their original X for feature parity outside of hardware differences of keybed and number of keys. Thanks in advance for any insight you can share.

Mark
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mp3 on October 18, 2018, 01:37:05 PM
I hope this isn't the "new" synth rumored to be released. I think we should wait until the USER sampling and new sound packs for the PX are implemented before we start worrying about more keys.

WE have already implemented USER sampling and ADD on pack addition functionality in an internally released OS version.  We are now awaiting finalization of the USER SAMPLE MAPPING/EDITOR application to be complete, though we already have BETA versions of the software which are currently working.  8DIO plans to release the ADD on packs in the very near future.

Also worth noting that the only individual concerned with adding more keys is in charge of industrial/hardware design and does not work on the software for our instruments.

Can you tell us what keybed is used in the PXL? edit: or can you tell us anything at all about that keybed? I feel like I'm the only one interested in it  :-\
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: dslsynth on October 18, 2018, 01:40:48 PM
I like the idea of supporting digital voices by using two hardware voices.

Question: will the digital oscillators be available in this mode?

Question: will this mode be selectable per layer?

Question: how will mono mode work?
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: cbmd on October 18, 2018, 01:43:10 PM
The key bed is a Fatar TP8/Piano action + aftertouch.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: cbmd on October 18, 2018, 01:43:54 PM
All XL features will be available on standard PX units.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mp3 on October 18, 2018, 01:44:40 PM
The key bed is a Fatar TP8/Piano action + aftertouch.

For the win!!!

Thanks my friend!
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: cbmd on October 18, 2018, 01:45:09 PM
In 32 voice mode, you can use 1 instrument and 1 oscillator per layer.  It is not selectable per layer.  32 voice mode always runs the instruments/oscillators in mono.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mildwest on October 18, 2018, 01:50:40 PM
All XL features will be available on standard PX units.

Thank you CMBD, you made my day  :D

Tell the crew and Dave thanks from all of us OG Prophet X users!
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: dslsynth on October 18, 2018, 01:52:49 PM
In 32 voice mode, you can use 1 instrument and 1 oscillator per layer.  It is not selectable per layer.  32 voice mode always runs the instruments/oscillators in mono.

Thanks for the answer! Makes very much sense seen from a computer resource point of view. Hope its selectable per program as that will be more expressive and convenient than a global switch. In any case: nice development of the PX. Really like that its a standard update to existing PX owners. Hope people will love it!
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Sleep of Reason on October 18, 2018, 01:53:47 PM
Blimey, this couldn't have come at a worse time. I passed on the PX mainly due to the keys being TP/9S and not TP/8S. Just today my Sweetwater rep called to tell me the 88 key controller with Fatar TP/40 Wood (that I was on a waiting list for) shipped out to me. Oh well, I suppose the X/XL just wasn't meant for me... 
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mildwest on October 18, 2018, 01:59:06 PM
Blimey, this couldn't have come at a worse time. I passed on the PX mainly due to the keys being TP/9S and not TP/8S. Just today my Sweetwater rep called to tell me the 88 key controller with Fatar TP/40 Wood (that I was on a waiting list for) shipped out to me. Oh well, I suppose the X/XL just wasn't meant for me...
That is the beauty of the 45 day return policy. I think this is for you as it dropped while you can still return this one  ;)
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Sleep of Reason on October 18, 2018, 02:04:30 PM
Due to the deal I got I had to pay for shipping, which wasn't cheap. Meaning I'll be losing out on shipping both ways. I'm far too frugal of a b**tard for that.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: drxcm on October 18, 2018, 02:08:11 PM
In 32 voice mode, you can use 1 instrument and 1 oscillator per layer.  It is not selectable per layer.  32 voice mode always runs the instruments/oscillators in mono.

Will this be stereo samples?
If not would be great if a 16voice stereo mode using similar resources would be fantastic!
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mildwest on October 18, 2018, 02:11:21 PM
In 32 voice mode, you can use 1 instrument and 1 oscillator per layer.  It is not selectable per layer.  32 voice mode always runs the instruments/oscillators in mono.

Will this be stereo samples?
If not would be great if a 16voice stereo mode using similar resources would be fantastic!

That would be fantastic.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Lady Gaia on October 18, 2018, 02:36:04 PM
All XL features will be available on standard PX units.

For which all of us with the original hardware are incredibly grateful.  Thanks for the ongoing commitment to making our purchase more capable!  I look forward to the complete list of goodies arriving in the corresponding firmware update.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: LoboLives on October 18, 2018, 09:24:05 PM
The XL isnít for me but I do like the idea of Sequential doing a piano action keybed on a synth.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Razmo on October 19, 2018, 06:09:54 AM
Well... I like the 32 voice idea, and are VERY PLEASED to see, that all features of the XL will be ported to the X because I'm one of those people who do NOT like hammer action type of keybeds, so I'll still be aiming at the X, and not the XL... I see this "upgrade" as an "upgrade for the live performers"... though... I'd really have liked to see the X made in a module version with a scaled down user interface like the P12 module... not that I'm aiming at it, but some people might have enough keys in their studio, trying to keep things compact.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: genetic92 on October 19, 2018, 10:39:01 AM
I am prettty bummed out Sequential JUST announce the XL version.

Couldn't they announce it with the release of the Prophet X 61? I would have waited and bought the XL. My return window is long gone of the 61...

I am one of those guys who has beem waiting for weighted keys on a synthesizer for ages, since the Prophet T8!! SO SAD.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: LoboLives on October 19, 2018, 06:38:13 PM
So is this the "new" synth that was rumored from Sequential or is this simply a custom option when people order the PX now?
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Razmo on October 20, 2018, 10:01:15 AM
So is this the "new" synth that was rumored from Sequential or is this simply a custom option when people order the PX now?

I'd doubt it... what did they need to do to make this? another FATAR keybed which is probably technically compatible with the 61key version, and another casing a bit bigger... the internal is probably exactly the same fitting both models... that can not be somthing that takes a lot of time creating, in comparison to a whole new synth...
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: LoboLives on October 20, 2018, 01:23:54 PM
So is this the "new" synth that was rumored from Sequential or is this simply a custom option when people order the PX now?

I'd doubt it... what did they need to do to make this? another FATAR keybed which is probably technically compatible with the 61key version, and another casing a bit bigger... the internal is probably exactly the same fitting both models... that can not be somthing that takes a lot of time creating, in comparison to a whole new synth...

Now this got me thinking....if Sequential is going to provide an option for a longer keybed for the PX.....why not 61 keys for P6 and OB6? Not saying they should but it does make one wonder.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Razmo on October 20, 2018, 02:24:25 PM
So is this the "new" synth that was rumored from Sequential or is this simply a custom option when people order the PX now?

I'd doubt it... what did they need to do to make this? another FATAR keybed which is probably technically compatible with the 61key version, and another casing a bit bigger... the internal is probably exactly the same fitting both models... that can not be somthing that takes a lot of time creating, in comparison to a whole new synth...

Now this got me thinking....if Sequential is going to provide an option for a longer keybed for the PX.....why not 61 keys for P6 and OB6? Not saying they should but it does make one wonder.

I think it has to do with the fact that the X has the potential of playing piano and other more traditional acoustic sounds... it's users are a much broader audience, and they are probably aiming this at live performers, like those who play with the big workstations etc... the P6 and OB6 is aimed at a different type of user i think... they have 4 octaves which is usually enough to play a single sound with two hands... they also have no split functionality, like the X... this makes 76 keys more plausible for the X, as live users would want to split the keyboard to have two sounds running at the upper/lower parts of the keyboard. P6 and OB6 would not really need 76 keys.

That is my explanation of it :)

I'd rather argue that the other split/layer capable synths could maybe benefit from 76 keys, like the REV2 and Prophet 12... but in this case, a piano hammer action would NOT be the right choice in my opinion, rather the TP/8S which is a synth action keybed of better quality than the currently used TP/9S that is in the REV2/P6/OB6 (though, I'm perfectly satisfied with the TP/9S to be honest).
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: LoboLives on October 20, 2018, 05:44:41 PM
So is this the "new" synth that was rumored from Sequential or is this simply a custom option when people order the PX now?

I'd doubt it... what did they need to do to make this? another FATAR keybed which is probably technically compatible with the 61key version, and another casing a bit bigger... the internal is probably exactly the same fitting both models... that can not be somthing that takes a lot of time creating, in comparison to a whole new synth...

Now this got me thinking....if Sequential is going to provide an option for a longer keybed for the PX.....why not 61 keys for P6 and OB6? Not saying they should but it does make one wonder.

I think it has to do with the fact that the X has the potential of playing piano and other more traditional acoustic sounds... it's users are a much broader audience, and they are probably aiming this at live performers, like those who play with the big workstations etc... the P6 and OB6 is aimed at a different type of user i think... they have 4 octaves which is usually enough to play a single sound with two hands... they also have no split functionality, like the X... this makes 76 keys more plausible for the X, as live users would want to split the keyboard to have two sounds running at the upper/lower parts of the keyboard. P6 and OB6 would not really need 76 keys.

That is my explanation of it :)

I'd rather argue that the other split/layer capable synths could maybe benefit from 76 keys, like the REV2 and Prophet 12... but in this case, a piano hammer action would NOT be the right choice in my opinion, rather the TP/8S which is a synth action keybed of better quality than the currently used TP/9S that is in the REV2/P6/OB6 (though, I'm perfectly satisfied with the TP/9S to be honest).

Oh 8m not talking about 76 Keys specifically I was talking about 61 Keys.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: blewis on October 20, 2018, 06:02:58 PM
In 16 voice mode, the PX is said to be in mono, but each note can be panned in the stereo VCA and you can create a stereo field via Pan Spread or modulating pan.

Will the same be true in 32 voice mode?
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Razmo on October 21, 2018, 02:15:36 AM
So is this the "new" synth that was rumored from Sequential or is this simply a custom option when people order the PX now?

I'd doubt it... what did they need to do to make this? another FATAR keybed which is probably technically compatible with the 61key version, and another casing a bit bigger... the internal is probably exactly the same fitting both models... that can not be somthing that takes a lot of time creating, in comparison to a whole new synth...

Now this got me thinking....if Sequential is going to provide an option for a longer keybed for the PX.....why not 61 keys for P6 and OB6? Not saying they should but it does make one wonder.

I think it has to do with the fact that the X has the potential of playing piano and other more traditional acoustic sounds... it's users are a much broader audience, and they are probably aiming this at live performers, like those who play with the big workstations etc... the P6 and OB6 is aimed at a different type of user i think... they have 4 octaves which is usually enough to play a single sound with two hands... they also have no split functionality, like the X... this makes 76 keys more plausible for the X, as live users would want to split the keyboard to have two sounds running at the upper/lower parts of the keyboard. P6 and OB6 would not really need 76 keys.

That is my explanation of it :)

I'd rather argue that the other split/layer capable synths could maybe benefit from 76 keys, like the REV2 and Prophet 12... but in this case, a piano hammer action would NOT be the right choice in my opinion, rather the TP/8S which is a synth action keybed of better quality than the currently used TP/9S that is in the REV2/P6/OB6 (though, I'm perfectly satisfied with the TP/9S to be honest).

Oh 8m not talking about 76 Keys specifically I was talking about 61 Keys.

Sure... but still... even though 5 octaves is nice, you can usually still play what you want on 4 octaves, and only having 4 octaves makes the keyboard more compact... the OB6 and P6 (in my opinion) are more minded at the touring musician, as they are meant for live tweaking... every function has a knob... I can see why someone would prefer the 4 octave over a 5 octave version...

Anyway, if they did make this, then there would be people who want this in 76 and 88 keys too, some will want synth action, some hammer action, some would rather have a module, others a rackmountable version... it quickly adds up in the end.

I guess what is important is that SCI have had enough requests for a 76key hammer action keybed for the X... if not, I'd be amazed as to why they would find this important really... I for one, hate hammer action keys because synth action allow for much faster playing styles... but each to their own on that I guess :)
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Razmo on October 21, 2018, 02:32:50 AM
In 16 voice mode, the PX is said to be in mono, but each note can be panned in the stereo VCA and you can create a stereo field via Pan Spread or modulating pan.

Will the same be true in 32 voice mode?

I think it will yes... as far as I'm understanding it, in 32 voice mode, you get only one sample instrument and one synth instrument going... i bet this is how they do the 32 voices... the engine is not powerful enough to create 32 voices, so each normal voice is probably split in half as to not require more processing power but all the modulation stuff associalted with 16 extra voices (you would need to have 32 times of everything like LFOs and EGs etc. but these are probably a lot less processing hungry).

It is clearly stated in the SOS article, that the normal 16 voice filter section will be bypassed in this mode, and that two of the filters will be used to "spice things up"... it's working paraphonically in this mode, which makes the filter not very useful with 32 voices going thru the same filter like this, but i suppose the filters could be seen as a pair of "FX filters" in this case... with samples you do not always need to route thru a filter as the samples have all "in them" anyway, but to sculpt them a bit with a static analog filter is probably a good thing.

One thing that i wonder though is, if it would not have been a good thing to allow the user to select what types of oscillators to use for those two sound sources... i think that it would make more sense to have two sample based oscillators rather than one of these being a synth oscillator, because the synth oscillator is a lot more dependant on a filter per voice... I predict that the synth oscillator in this mode is not going to be used that much in 32 voice mode because of this. If the synth oscillator on the other hand, was given it's own volume envelope like on the PRO2, then this might be a bit more useful though.

I really hope though, that this 32 voice mode will be something you can choose on a program level... otherwise it will basically be useless...
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: LoboLives on October 21, 2018, 12:34:19 PM
So is this the "new" synth that was rumored from Sequential or is this simply a custom option when people order the PX now?

I'd doubt it... what did they need to do to make this? another FATAR keybed which is probably technically compatible with the 61key version, and another casing a bit bigger... the internal is probably exactly the same fitting both models... that can not be somthing that takes a lot of time creating, in comparison to a whole new synth...

Now this got me thinking....if Sequential is going to provide an option for a longer keybed for the PX.....why not 61 keys for P6 and OB6? Not saying they should but it does make one wonder.

I think it has to do with the fact that the X has the potential of playing piano and other more traditional acoustic sounds... it's users are a much broader audience, and they are probably aiming this at live performers, like those who play with the big workstations etc... the P6 and OB6 is aimed at a different type of user i think... they have 4 octaves which is usually enough to play a single sound with two hands... they also have no split functionality, like the X... this makes 76 keys more plausible for the X, as live users would want to split the keyboard to have two sounds running at the upper/lower parts of the keyboard. P6 and OB6 would not really need 76 keys.

That is my explanation of it :)

I'd rather argue that the other split/layer capable synths could maybe benefit from 76 keys, like the REV2 and Prophet 12... but in this case, a piano hammer action would NOT be the right choice in my opinion, rather the TP/8S which is a synth action keybed of better quality than the currently used TP/9S that is in the REV2/P6/OB6 (though, I'm perfectly satisfied with the TP/9S to be honest).

Oh 8m not talking about 76 Keys specifically I was talking about 61 Keys.

Sure... but still... even though 5 octaves is nice, you can usually still play what you want on 4 octaves, and only having 4 octaves makes the keyboard more compact... the OB6 and P6 (in my opinion) are more minded at the touring musician, as they are meant for live tweaking... every function has a knob... I can see why someone would prefer the 4 octave over a 5 octave version...

Anyway, if they did make this, then there would be people who want this in 76 and 88 keys too, some will want synth action, some hammer action, some would rather have a module, others a rackmountable version... it quickly adds up in the end.

I guess what is important is that SCI have had enough requests for a 76key hammer action keybed for the X... if not, I'd be amazed as to why they would find this important really... I for one, hate hammer action keys because synth action allow for much faster playing styles... but each to their own on that I guess :)

You know it does seem odd they would do this. They kept saying the PX wasn't a stage piano or workstation. I'm actually quite shocked the demand for 76 hammer action keys was that high.

As far as piano action. I like synth action myself but piano action does have its place like on my V Piano and I have often wondered what an analog synth with piano action keys would feel like. Like the Prophet T8 or CS80. Especially if they had poly aftertouch or those Touch Key stickers on them. 
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: LoboLives on October 23, 2018, 08:07:03 PM
You know I was thinking. With the larger surface it would have been cool if Sequential added some more dials and features to the XL. Perhaps this would have been a good time to try multitimbrality. Add a EDIT Layer C and EDIT Layer D buttons.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: ddp on October 23, 2018, 09:19:30 PM
I will need one of these.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: niagarasynths on October 24, 2018, 01:01:28 PM
This is all great update news but I would still really like to know what sample libraries are coming. Sequential and DSI said (and still say in their descriptions) that they would be available on release(which was months ago). I still see the Prophet 5/CP 70 write-ups but nothing else. In the meantime 8DIO have had numerous sales on libraries, which I haven't invested in because there may be duplication when they finally do release.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: johnts on October 24, 2018, 02:43:23 PM
This is all great update news but I would still really like to know what sample libraries are coming. Sequential and DSI said (and still say in their descriptions) that they would be available on release(which was months ago). I still see the Prophet 5/CP 70 write-ups but nothing else. In the meantime 8DIO have had numerous sales on libraries, which I haven't invested in because there may be duplication when they finally do release.

According to 8IDO in a comment on their XL promotion video: October 25th, tomorrow!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGfmnrcO7KA

The Prophet 5 is one of the most iconic synths of all time. We had the pleasure of deep-sampling the last production unit ever made (Dave Smith's personal keyboard) - and sampled every single preset in the unit. The Last Prophet 5 is specifically designed for the Prophet X and XL - and offers you all the original presets and 16 custom presets. Available on www.8dio.com from October 25th.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Razmo on October 25, 2018, 06:29:26 AM
You know I was thinking. With the larger surface it would have been cool if Sequential added some more dials and features to the XL. Perhaps this would have been a good time to try multitimbrality. Add a EDIT Layer C and EDIT Layer D buttons.

As long as the features are the same I'd be fine with some extra control on the XL... I don't need it :) ... on the other hand, when I looked at the photo of the XL I thought "Why not place the controls as much to the left as possible, so that the right side had free space!?" ... i know some would probably disagree with me because they want the controls to be centered in front of them, but it would also have been nice to be able to place a desktop module of sorts to the right of the controls... i can easily see a P12 module placed there :)
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mp3 on October 29, 2018, 08:32:22 AM
Just a note of clarification for those interested in the subject. The TP/8Piano is not a hammer action keybed. Its actually just a sprung action with a long fulcrum and a dogleg shape. Exactly like the TP/8S. In fact the only real difference between the two is the shape of the keys.

Here's a pic:
(http://www.fatar.com/Disegni%20grand/TP_8P.gif)

And for comparison, here's a pic of a key from the Roland A-70:
(https://syntaur.com/images/K12W-Lg.jpg)

That brings up some interesting possibilities. For example, it should be possible to customize this keybed with lighter or heavier springs (and/or weights), if you can find them. It may also be possible to swap out the keys, or perhaps even do a wholesale keybed swap... At least size-wise, any (76 key) TP/8 should fit. So for example my beat-to-hell but still working A-70 could potentially be a donor, as could any of the Kurzweil semi-weighted 76 key keybeds such as the K2500, PC2, etc..
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: STMICHAELS on October 31, 2018, 12:14:33 AM
Just a note of clarification for those interested in the subject. The TP/8Piano is not a hammer action keybed. Its actually just a sprung action with a long fulcrum and a dogleg shape. Exactly like the TP/8S. In fact the only real difference between the two is the shape of the keys.

Here's a pic:
(http://www.fatar.com/Disegni%20grand/TP_8P.gif)

And for comparison, here's a pic of a key from the Roland A-70:
(https://syntaur.com/images/K12W-Lg.jpg)

That brings up some interesting possibilities. For example, it should be possible to customize this keybed with lighter or heavier springs (and/or weights), if you can find them. It may also be possible to swap out the keys, or perhaps even do a wholesale keybed swap... At least size-wise, any (76 key) TP/8 should fit. So for example my beat-to-hell but still working A-70 could potentially be a donor, as could any of the Kurzweil semi-weighted 76 key keybeds such as the K2500, PC2, etc..

Thank you for clarifying  as I am looking into this potential synth. I was going to ask the question if it had piano weighted hammer action, then would it not defeat the purpose of playing the synth section as sometimes one  would need to be able to do quick runs (synth leads etc.) without having to play heavy keyes.

This answers that concern. I am not a synth junkie and know the fundamentals, however in the synth section with two OSC what is the characteristic of this synth similar to the other prophet lines? Rev 2? or does synth section on this keyboard have its own character?
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: LoboLives on October 31, 2018, 04:00:18 PM
Just a note of clarification for those interested in the subject. The TP/8Piano is not a hammer action keybed. Its actually just a sprung action with a long fulcrum and a dogleg shape. Exactly like the TP/8S. In fact the only real difference between the two is the shape of the keys.

Here's a pic:
(http://www.fatar.com/Disegni%20grand/TP_8P.gif)

And for comparison, here's a pic of a key from the Roland A-70:
(https://syntaur.com/images/K12W-Lg.jpg)

That brings up some interesting possibilities. For example, it should be possible to customize this keybed with lighter or heavier springs (and/or weights), if you can find them. It may also be possible to swap out the keys, or perhaps even do a wholesale keybed swap... At least size-wise, any (76 key) TP/8 should fit. So for example my beat-to-hell but still working A-70 could potentially be a donor, as could any of the Kurzweil semi-weighted 76 key keybeds such as the K2500, PC2, etc..

Thank you for clarifying  as I am looking into this potential synth. I was going to ask the question if it had piano weighted hammer action, then would it not defeat the purpose of playing the synth section as sometimes one  would need to be able to do quick runs (synth leads etc.) without having to play heavy keyes.

This answers that concern. I am not a synth junkie and know the fundamentals, however in the synth section with two OSC what is the characteristic of this synth similar to the other prophet lines? Rev 2? or does synth section on this keyboard have its own character?

Itís pretty much a digital oscillator version of the REV2 oscillators but with an newly added SuperSaw Wave. I would say the oscillators are there to assist the samples or add flavor to them rather than a stand-alone synth engine. Layering any sample with a Sine Wave is my go too for beefing up sounds.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mildwest on October 31, 2018, 05:14:10 PM
Just a note of clarification for those interested in the subject. The TP/8Piano is not a hammer action keybed. Its actually just a sprung action with a long fulcrum and a dogleg shape. Exactly like the TP/8S. In fact the only real difference between the two is the shape of the keys.

Here's a pic:
(http://www.fatar.com/Disegni%20grand/TP_8P.gif)

And for comparison, here's a pic of a key from the Roland A-70:
(https://syntaur.com/images/K12W-Lg.jpg)

That brings up some interesting possibilities. For example, it should be possible to customize this keybed with lighter or heavier springs (and/or weights), if you can find them. It may also be possible to swap out the keys, or perhaps even do a wholesale keybed swap... At least size-wise, any (76 key) TP/8 should fit. So for example my beat-to-hell but still working A-70 could potentially be a donor, as could any of the Kurzweil semi-weighted 76 key keybeds such as the K2500, PC2, etc..

Thank you for clarifying  as I am looking into this potential synth. I was going to ask the question if it had piano weighted hammer action, then would it not defeat the purpose of playing the synth section as sometimes one  would need to be able to do quick runs (synth leads etc.) without having to play heavy keyes.

This answers that concern. I am not a synth junkie and know the fundamentals, however in the synth section with two OSC what is the characteristic of this synth similar to the other prophet lines? Rev 2? or does synth section on this keyboard have its own character?

Itís pretty much a digital oscillator version of the REV2 oscillators but with an newly added SuperSaw Wave. I would say the oscillators are there to assist the samples or add flavor to them rather than a stand-alone synth engine. Layering any sample with a Sine Wave is my go too for beefing up sounds.

I find the synth engine quite powerful and capable on its own too. Not prophet 12 level, but pretty great on its own. But I agree the combo of samples and synth are what really makes it special.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: mp3 on November 02, 2018, 08:00:44 AM
Thank you for clarifying  as I am looking into this potential synth. I was going to ask the question if it had piano weighted hammer action, then would it not defeat the purpose of playing the synth section as sometimes one  would need to be able to do quick runs (synth leads etc.) without having to play heavy keyes.

This answers that concern. <snip>

Well it may or may not be heavily weighted, and it may or may not be heavily sprung, but it is certainly not a hammer action. There's no hammer...

A lot of manufacturers (especially in the high end controller market and midrange synth/workstation/stage piano markets) use heavy spring tension and mislabel the keyboard as semi-weighted, but the difference there is very much like the difference between lifting free weights and a working out on a bowflex. It can be done well, as evidenced by all the really good feeling TP/8 based keybeds out there, but the manufacturer needs to strike the right balance between the actual weights (if any) and the tension of the springs.

At any rate, because of the spring tension and weighting questions, we don't know exactly how the PXL keybed feels, and we won't until its out in the wild.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Hector Space on January 12, 2019, 04:08:29 AM
Tried out the PXL in Andertons last week. Thought the keybed was awful! Really a major missed opportunity by DSI. I have a Kurzweil Forte with a Fatar TP40L keybed it not the greatest but itís still way better than the PXL's keybed. My view is it should be a TP40 or better. I think DSI should note Nord's approach to the keybeds used on the Stage 2/3.. The sounds on the PX are worth it! Maybe DSI Sequential will come out with a full 88 using the newish Fatar TP 400w this would totally slay most top end workstations and that weird Dexibel S9 lol!
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Steve in VA on January 26, 2019, 04:58:08 AM
Tried out the PXL in Andertons last week. Thought the keybed was awful!

I've had a PXL for about a month now and disagree about the keybed. Yes, it is stiffer than most "synth" or semi-weighted keybeds, but compared to a fully-weighted hammer keyboard, it is quite playable. Piano-style keybeds just feel unnatural to me for synth sounds, but the PXL gets it right while still working well for acoustic piano.

The velocity and aftertouch sensitivity is quite good also.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Hector Space on January 28, 2019, 03:31:53 AM
I guess Korg, Roland, Kawai, Yamaha and Nord are wrong then. I mean why would anyone want to play an RH3, FA-50, RHIII, GH3, TP40. Etc. Lol!
Could it be because pianists can also love the deep synthesis possibilities of the PX but want to use the keyboard skills theyíve developed over many years to achieve the maximum performance benefits on the instrument...
No weíd much rather compromise our art. I mean after all the PX is a compromised instrument... NOT lol
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: DavidDever on January 28, 2019, 04:05:07 PM
All hammer-action keybeds are a compromise; it's largely a question of where that compromise lies.

The E-mu E-Synth / E4K was one of the few sampler keyboards with a 76-key, semi-weighted Fatar TP-8 synth-action keybed; it wasn't the best for piano-type articulation, though one could certainly achieve a decent result with a bit of adjustment.

I own a Korg T1, which uses the same keybed as the leaf-sprung*, weighty-weighted Yamaha KX-88 - this works fine for me (Pianoteq and other sample-based instruments notwithstanding), though I'm leaning toward the X (also semi-weighted, though a TP-9S if I recall correctly) as it might be better suited for synth- and drum-oriented playing.

We shall see: right now, there are about five or six devices that the Prophet X(L) could replace in one go, which requires that I distill the things I like about those existing units into a single device, which I'm not entirely certain _can_ be done.

* - Yeah, I was a DX7 keybed fan too.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: psionic11 on January 28, 2019, 05:23:57 PM
It looks like there are similar mixed reviews on the Fatar TP/8 piano action.  Seems some don't like the spring action, others are fine with it. 

This link shows that the TP8/piano is used in several 76-key Kurzweil models: 
https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/verbaute-tastaturen-und-hersteller-sammelthread.435157/

This link has a reviewer who had different Kurzweil boards and who really disliked the spring action of the TP8/Piano keybed:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/954243-kurzweil-pc3k-7-what-action-like-76-note-version.html
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Lady Gaia on January 28, 2019, 06:15:20 PM
It looks like there are similar mixed reviews on the Fatar TP/8 piano action.

Thatís not surprising as the Prophet XL is using the TP8/Piano action, not the TP8/S.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: LoboLives on January 28, 2019, 07:25:34 PM
I recall Kawai talking about this in regards to their MP11 and MP7 stage pianos. Why are there so many more sounds in the MP7? Because true piano action is terrible for organ, brass, drums etc. Since the PXL has all of those sounds and more it is simply a compromise for a piano player, synth player, organ player etc. The PXL isnít a dedicated piano and anyone who expects it to be is an idiot.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Lady Gaia on January 28, 2019, 08:01:19 PM
I recall Kawai talking about this in regards to their MP11 and MP7 stage pianos. Why are there so many more sounds in the MP7? Because true piano action is terrible for organ, brass, drums etc. Since the PXL has all of those sounds and more it is simply a compromise for a piano player, synth player, organ player etc. The PXL isnít a dedicated piano and anyone who expects it to be is an idiot.

There are plenty of keyboards that aren't dedicated pianos that still opt for a hammer action, though usually non-graded and lighter than a classic piano action.  I overwhelmingly prefer the likes of a TP40/L to the TP8/Piano but it's just that: a preference, and something that can reasonably vary from one person to the next.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Hector Space on January 29, 2019, 03:28:56 AM
Iíd agree, the TP40L on my Kurzweil Forte is an acceptable compromise but it ainít great for piano. In reality Roland's RD2000 FA-50 is also pretty good as an 'all rounder' but is a much better pianistic keybed, the level of control possible from it is astonishing in comparison to the Fatar TP40L! Iím not disputing that there are many sounds that really donít benefit from a hammer action keybed. My rig normally consists of a piano keybed and a semi weighted keybed (E.g. Tp9s) for this reason.

In the end itís really about whether youíre a pianist first or not. Iíd do a gig without a synth action keyboard but I wouldnít choose to do it without a piano action keybed.

I think Korg's approach with the Kronos range is a good example. They provide the 61, 76 and 88 and also an LS 88. So you can pretty much choose the keybed to match your main needs.

For the millions of pianist oriented keyboard players out there PX range should include a quality 88 hammer action keybed - probably a TP40m like the Nord Stage 3.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Sleep of Reason on February 06, 2019, 12:08:07 AM
I see keys as a very percussive instrument, but perhaps that's because I come from a background as a drummer... If synth action keybeds weren't cheaper to produce and lighter weight for portability, I think opinions would be drastically different. A lot of folks are just used to playing cheap keybeds on synths. Fully weighted hammer action keys feel vastly more percussive/responsive a thus articulate to my fingers at least. I personally don't see any reason why they wouldn't be preferable in every circumstance as far as performance is concerned.
Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Ozy on April 08, 2019, 08:48:12 AM
The key bed is a Fatar TP8/Piano action + aftertouch.

Pardon me for asking again, but:

I used the TP8 keybed on a Kurzweil pc3k-76, and it was an awful, springy semiweighted keybed, not a piano-action keybed.

Does the XL really use a piano-action keybed?

This is a deal maker/breaker for me.



Title: Re: Prophet XL?
Post by: Steve in VA on April 08, 2019, 10:33:17 AM
Pardon me for asking again, but:

I used the TP8 keybed on a Kurzweil pc3k-76, and it was an awful, springy semiweighted keybed, not a piano-action keybed.

Does the XL really use a piano-action keybed?

This is a deal maker/breaker for me.

I have a PXL and the action is indeed springy and semi-weighted. It is stiffer than many synth or semi-weighted keybeds. The "awful" part is subjective. I think it works well for piano parts and does not feel unnatural for synth or organ like a true-weighted keybed does. It is very responsive.