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OTHER DISCUSSIONS => General Synthesis => Other Hardware/Software => Topic started by: Shaw on September 14, 2018, 05:51:34 PM

Title: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Shaw on September 14, 2018, 05:51:34 PM
Apparently, Yamaha reads this forum....


https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/index.html (https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/modx/index.html)
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Gomjab on September 14, 2018, 08:26:14 PM
Why do you say that Shaw?  I must have missed that discussion. 

I would love to have a table top versio version of the FM engine. I’m running out of room for keys. 
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: LoboLives on September 14, 2018, 08:33:05 PM
Looks nice...just kinda wish it was FMX only. I know I don’t have to use the AWM2 stuff or whatever but still.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Shaw on September 14, 2018, 09:30:43 PM
Why do you say that Shaw?  I must have missed that discussion. 
We’ve had some discussions about the Montage where people (ahem, LoboLives) would opine that a scaled down version of the Montage that focused primarily / exclusively on FMX would do well.  I was just referencing those prior conversations.


I honestly don’t mind the addition of AWM / samples for 2 reasons... 1) most people don’t program FM enough to make anything more complicated than clangourous Bell sounds, and 2) I don’t think the addition of AWM / samples really added to the cost. It’s a sound set that they already had, and they use less than 6 GB of storage space for ALL of the onboard samples.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 14, 2018, 11:51:54 PM
I got to borrow a faulty Montage recently. It's really almost too much in that you can get lost for hours on end doing sound design. 99.9% of the presets are absolute garbage aimed at a trance or techno crowd. For some reason it would really bug me to have them on a unit I owned, especially the ones that are pre-written (hold a key down to win) tracks. You wouldn't know how phenomenal this thing sounds as a synth from all the videos online. If the MODX had aftertouch/velocity I would definitely pick one up.

I don't think users would only make clangorous bell sounds either. This is the first FM synth I messed with and that's not what I came up with. Here's something I programmed using a single layer of FM-X. What's cool is it features audio over USB, which makes recording super easy. The crackle you hear in the recording has to do with the aforementioned issue. The effects are deep/outstanding and the motion sequence which you can route to any parameter makes for really organically random undulations like a wave on the ocean. You can hear the MS on the tale of the reverb at the end. There's also crazy routing for motion controls that I've not even got a chance to get to. Basically I barely nicked the surface of this thing's potential.

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0m8sQKy3inb
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: jg666 on September 15, 2018, 06:29:20 AM
I suppose it was always on the cards as they did the same when they released the MOXF which was a cut-down version of the flagship at the time. I must say, even though I own the MOXF6, I’m tempted to get a MODX :)
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Gomjab on September 15, 2018, 06:54:49 AM
The MODX6 is tempting at that price point.  Does anyone know if it will respond to aftertouch from an external controller? Poly or channel?  Seeing that the Montage supported channel aftertouch and they say the MODX shares the same sound engine I would hope so.

Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Shaw on September 15, 2018, 07:18:12 AM
The word “aftertouch” appears nowhere in the manual, but there is plenty on modulation to be had.  The Super Knob (which can also be controlled by a foot controller which allows you to still play with 2 hands), Motion Sequencer, envelope follower, Arpeggiattor with over 10,000 arpeggio types...


I wasn’t a fan of the “Super Knob” when I first heard it in connection with the Montage — perhaps just because the name “Super Knob” sounds like dorky as hell... but conceptually, it can control up to 128 parameters at the same time which is, well, Super Powerful.


EDM — yeah, the Montage felt like it was missing an auxiliary pill dispenser for ecstasy tablets, and I’m pretty sure the presets on the MODX will be the same (I even recognized for of the preset names in the MODX videos as being those from the Montage), but I don’t mind deleting the useless stuff.


And yeah, at 1299 for the 61 key version, I might not, unfortunately, be able to resist that one.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Gomjab on September 15, 2018, 07:34:30 AM
I have some nice keybeds with aftertouch including a Roli Seaboard for poly aftertouch.  It is a matter of their MIDI implementation.

When I read that a foot pedal could control the super knob I thought playing the MODX from another keyboard could work well.  It would allow me to buy the cheaper MODX6.

[EDIT] Grrrrrr  >:(  Why can’t manufactures include a standard MIDI implementation chart anymore?

Maybe they’ll release a separate document later. I think I’ll buy the MODX6 if I can confirm it responds to aftertouch over MIDI
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Gomjab on September 15, 2018, 10:51:23 AM
I just tried out a Montage at my local GC. Took a pair of headphones and went when they first opened and got some quality time on it. I’m warming to the idea of a MODX6. I can live with the other cost savings if I can control it from an aftertouch capable keyboard.

I never really gave the Montage much consideration due to price. If I’m going to spend over 2K it’s going to be on an analog synth. 
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: jg666 on September 15, 2018, 11:00:37 AM
I just tried out a Montage at my local GC. Took a pair of headphones and went when they first opened and got some quality time on it. I’m warming to the idea of a MODX6. I can live with the other cost savings if I can control it from an aftertouch capable keyboard.

I never really gave the Montage much consideration due to price. If I’m going to spend over 2K it’s going to be on an analog synth.

Same thoughts here with the prices. I couldn’t justify the money for a Montage but the MODX6 is very tempting at this price. I might have to buy now just in case the £ loses value due to Brexit and puts the price up to something silly!
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 15, 2018, 11:06:14 AM
One other thing to consider is that the Montage features professional balanced outputs with "Pure Analog Circuit" (PAC). Not sure how much PAC is marketing hype, but either way the Montage sounds incredible. It looks like the MODX on the other hand features unbalanced outputs and no PAC.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: LoboLives on September 15, 2018, 01:31:25 PM
What's everyone's thoughts on the idea of touch screens on synths? Maybe that's what's putting me off cause I've never been a fan of them.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 15, 2018, 01:46:58 PM
What would be a practical alternative for 8-op FM synthesis? It's much preferable to old school menu diving or even mouse and key.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: LoboLives on September 15, 2018, 02:09:47 PM
What would be a practical alternative for 8-op FM synthesis? It's much preferable to old school menu diving or even mouse and key.

You know I really liked the interface for the DX Reface.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Shaw on September 15, 2018, 02:37:20 PM
What would be a practical alternative for 8-op FM synthesis? It's much preferable to old school menu diving or even mouse and key.

You know I really liked the interface for the DX Reface.
Mini Keys?
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: LoboLives on September 15, 2018, 03:37:24 PM
What would be a practical alternative for 8-op FM synthesis? It's much preferable to old school menu diving or even mouse and key.

You know I really liked the interface for the DX Reface.
Mini Keys?

No I hated the keyboard and size but the actual concept of the interface and engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1DvXBOkO5M
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Sleep of Reason on September 15, 2018, 04:27:01 PM
To even compare the amount of parameters of the Reface to the Montage/MODX is silly. All you have to do with the touch screen is click a parameter you want and 1) hold down and either a menu of options or a numerical keypad will pop 2) use the scroll wheel if you're not exactly sure where you want it. On top of that there's faders and knobs depending on what parameter it is.

Still waiting for practical alternatives that would make life easier...
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: LoboLives on September 15, 2018, 04:35:02 PM
To even compare the amount of parameters of the Reface to the Montage/MODX is silly. All you have to do with the touch screen is click a parameter you want and 1) hold down and either a menu of options or a numerical keypad will pop 2) use the scroll wheel if you're not exactly sure where you want it. On top of that there's faders and knobs depending on what parameter it is.

Still waiting for practical alternatives that would make life easier...

I know it’s not the same but I just feel that touch screens are risky. If the screen goes...then what?
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Gomjab on September 15, 2018, 05:08:07 PM
I know it’s not the same but I just feel that touch screens are risky. If the screen goes...then what?

I had same feeling about the $4K Waldorf Quantum.   I may risk it for a $1K synth  ;)

How do you feel about OLED displays?  Those have a finite life for sure!
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: LoboLives on September 15, 2018, 09:03:10 PM
I know it’s not the same but I just feel that touch screens are risky. If the screen goes...then what?

I had same feeling about the $4K Waldorf Quantum.   I may risk it for a $1K synth  ;)

How do you feel about OLED displays?  Those have a finite life for sure!

I got to try the Quantum at Moog Audio and....I don’t know...I just couldn’t gel with it.

OLEDS are fantastic...but to be honest and yes I know I’m in the minority...I hate them on analog synths. For some reason I just get put off when I see them on analog gear.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: megamarkd on September 16, 2018, 02:43:20 AM
The AWM+ engine in my QY700 isn't that bad and it's only a simplified version.  Yamaha were doing advanced pcm-subtractive synthesis quite well very early on.  They beat Korg at it in my mind.  I've found with additive synthesis it's nice to have a big fat squarewave drone slightly lpf'd sitting quietly under it all for some reinforcement, so the AWM engine would be good for that.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: DavidDever on September 16, 2018, 04:22:52 PM
To even compare the amount of parameters of the Reface to the Montage/MODX is silly. All you have to do with the touch screen is click a parameter you want and 1) hold down and either a menu of options or a numerical keypad will pop 2) use the scroll wheel if you're not exactly sure where you want it. On top of that there's faders and knobs depending on what parameter it is.

Still waiting for practical alternatives that would make life easier...

I know it’s not the same but I just feel that touch screens are risky. If the screen goes...then what?

I've definitely shared that skepticism in the past, but one can still purchase replacement / upgraded displays for 30-year-old products in quantity; none of the major MI manufacturers are large enough to be able to justify custom display sizes, so they tend to be commodity-sourced (and therefore easy to find).

I'd be more worried about custom semiconductors, to be honest. The same principle applies to the automotive industry.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: jg666 on September 18, 2018, 10:59:53 AM
The MODX6 is tempting at that price point.  Does anyone know if it will respond to aftertouch from an external controller? Poly or channel?  Seeing that the Montage supported channel aftertouch and they say the MODX shares the same sound engine I would hope so.

Someone has asked the question ‘Does the MODX series respond to aftertouch over MIDI ’on the Yamaha forums and the reply from Bad Mister was ‘Yes’
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Gomjab on September 18, 2018, 01:16:29 PM
The MODX6 is tempting at that price point.  Does anyone know if it will respond to aftertouch from an external controller? Poly or channel?  Seeing that the Montage supported channel aftertouch and they say the MODX shares the same sound engine I would hope so.

Someone has asked the question ‘Does the MODX series respond to aftertouch over MIDI ’on the Yamaha forums and the reply from Bad Mister was ‘Yes’

That would be great news but contradicts the just released MIDI spec in the data list doc.
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/1192592/modx_en_dl_a0.pdf#page218

Ironically the internal sequencer can send and receive poly aftertouch but the sound engine MIDI spec shows X meaning not supported for both send and receive of both channel and poly aftertouch.

Who is bad mister and do you have a URL to the forum?  Hopefully it is a mistake in their document.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: jg666 on September 18, 2018, 11:26:02 PM
The MODX6 is tempting at that price point.  Does anyone know if it will respond to aftertouch from an external controller? Poly or channel?  Seeing that the Montage supported channel aftertouch and they say the MODX shares the same sound engine I would hope so.

Someone has asked the question ‘Does the MODX series respond to aftertouch over MIDI ’on the Yamaha forums and the reply from Bad Mister was ‘Yes’

That would be great news but contradicts the just released MIDI spec in the data list doc.
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/1192592/modx_en_dl_a0.pdf#page218

Ironically the internal sequencer can send and receive poly aftertouch but the sound engine MIDI spec shows X meaning not supported for both send and receive of both channel and poly aftertouch.

Who is bad mister and do you have a URL to the forum?  Hopefully it is a mistake in their document.

Bad Mister is the man who knows everything about Yamaha stuff his real name is Phil Clendeninn :)

Hopefully it's OK to post this link to the thread on the Yamaha Forums...

https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/does-the-modx-series-respond-to-aftertouch-over-midi (https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/does-the-modx-series-respond-to-aftertouch-over-midi)

Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Gomjab on September 19, 2018, 08:09:07 AM
The MODX6 is tempting at that price point.  Does anyone know if it will respond to aftertouch from an external controller? Poly or channel?  Seeing that the Montage supported channel aftertouch and they say the MODX shares the same sound engine I would hope so.

Someone has asked the question ‘Does the MODX series respond to aftertouch over MIDI ’on the Yamaha forums and the reply from Bad Mister was ‘Yes’

That would be great news but contradicts the just released MIDI spec in the data list doc.
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/1192592/modx_en_dl_a0.pdf#page218

Ironically the internal sequencer can send and receive poly aftertouch but the sound engine MIDI spec shows X meaning not supported for both send and receive of both channel and poly aftertouch.

Who is bad mister and do you have a URL to the forum?  Hopefully it is a mistake in their document.

Bad Mister is the man who knows everything about Yamaha stuff his real name is Phil Clendeninn :)

Hopefully it's OK to post this link to the thread on the Yamaha Forums...

https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/does-the-modx-series-respond-to-aftertouch-over-midi (https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/does-the-modx-series-respond-to-aftertouch-over-midi)

Thanks for posting.  I did manage to find his one word response to the question last night using a google search.  I also saw he was a Yamaha product specialist with a long history so took it as gospel.  They do need to correct their MIDI spec as it was wrong as of yesterday.

I actually decided to buy a MODX6 based on your post so thanks again. 
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: jg666 on September 19, 2018, 08:14:28 AM
The MODX6 is tempting at that price point.  Does anyone know if it will respond to aftertouch from an external controller? Poly or channel?  Seeing that the Montage supported channel aftertouch and they say the MODX shares the same sound engine I would hope so.

Someone has asked the question ‘Does the MODX series respond to aftertouch over MIDI ’on the Yamaha forums and the reply from Bad Mister was ‘Yes’

That would be great news but contradicts the just released MIDI spec in the data list doc.
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/1192592/modx_en_dl_a0.pdf#page218

Ironically the internal sequencer can send and receive poly aftertouch but the sound engine MIDI spec shows X meaning not supported for both send and receive of both channel and poly aftertouch.

Who is bad mister and do you have a URL to the forum?  Hopefully it is a mistake in their document.

Bad Mister is the man who knows everything about Yamaha stuff his real name is Phil Clendeninn :)

Hopefully it's OK to post this link to the thread on the Yamaha Forums...

https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/does-the-modx-series-respond-to-aftertouch-over-midi (https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/does-the-modx-series-respond-to-aftertouch-over-midi)

Thanks for posting.  I did manage to find his one word response to the question last night using a google search.  I also saw he was a Yamaha product specialist with a long history so took it as gospel.  They do need to correct their MIDI spec as it was wrong as of yesterday.

I actually decided to buy a MODX6 based on your post so thanks again.

I ordered one this morning as well :) Hopefully I won’t be to blame if the reply on that forum wasn’t correct! I’ve never known him post wrong information before though.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: Gomjab on September 19, 2018, 09:43:12 AM
I’m buying local so I have an easy return if not.
Title: Re: Yamaha MODX
Post by: SynthPlayer on March 24, 2019, 09:17:13 AM
Only to clear it up. Of course, Modx responds to channel aftertouch via external midi.