The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Sequential Prophet X => Topic started by: hoodoo_ray on July 05, 2018, 02:53:26 PM
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Has anyone had a go with just the synth engine, or have any sound demos?
There are loads of demos of the samples (which sound amazing), but how about the synth?
Spec wise it looks like it may sound P12-ish.. anyone got any first hand experience?
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Has anyone had a go with just the synth engine, or have any sound demos?
I've seen a number of requests along similar lines, and I guess I understand in abstract but it's still a little baffling. I've certainly started patches purely with oscillators, and did see a couple of presets that don't use anything else (or where the level is so low that turning it the rest of the way down didn't really change the character of the sound.) They sound nice enough – but what's the point? You're not saving resources you can use for anything else.
Nobody asks to hear Rev 2 sounds with only the odd-numbered oscillators, so why the fascination here?
It's not like the sampled instruments are limited to acoustic sources, or that the oscillators are analog. They're all just digital signals produced by different means and the sample-based variety have plenty of fascinating synthetic varieties to choose from. There are all the VS waves, for example, and recordings of ensembles of other synthesizers just playing classic waveforms. There's every spectrum of noise you could possibly want.
So why not use whatever works with the sound you're creating? There aren't any points awarded for playing with one hand tied behind your back.
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I still say they should have added two more sample oscillators instead of the synth ones. Yeah it would be nice for a layer or two...but as Lady Gaia said, there are already a ton of sampled synths loaded in anyway.
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I'm getting an opportunity to try the X next week but I'm curious as well. I understand that it can be like an almost unlimited sound resource, with endless variation, but in one of the "live" applications that I would use it for, it may be called on to sound only like a classic analog synth or only like a string or choir sample. I'm hoping it sounds more analog (especially when 8DIO releases some of their synth samples) than a P12 and is capable of sounding more like the P8.
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Prophet Y: 76 notes w/ polyphonic aftertouch, 32 voices, 1TB SSD. and a waveform display (use the main OLED), add oscillators or vactrols as needed.
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Has anyone had a go with just the synth engine, or have any sound demos?
I've seen a number of requests along similar lines, and I guess I understand in abstract but it's still a little baffling.
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So why not use whatever works with the sound you're creating? There aren't any points awarded for playing with one hand tied behind your back.
OK let me try to explain. There are 2 main reasons: Money, and Portability.
1. Money.
I can see on the forum that there are some people with incredible gear lists, which will surpass anything I will ever be able to afford - and fair play, I would too if I could! But the fact of the matter is, sadly, if I were to get a Prophet X i would certainly have to sacrifice perhaps my Prophet 08 (which I love and have had for years, even though I got it second hand at the time) and Prophet 6, which I also love! I also have a Nord Electro which I got second hand a few years back.
I had to save up for a long time before getting the Prophet 6. I had someone on another thread say to me, don't sell the Nord to fund a Prophet X (as, rightly, it would not directly replace it), save up 'a little while longer' and get the Prophet X.. it would not be a 'little while' that is for sure!! I hvae over indulged anyway when it comes to this stuff, I really should not have bought the Prophet 6 - don't regret it mind ;) - but it was a bit of a risk to me financially.
So in regards the Prophet X's synth capabilities, I will probably have to sacrifice at least one synth to get the Prophet X (if indeed I decided to). Now I love synths, and would want to be able to still perform some pure synth stuff (i.e. not using samples) to replace the synth stuff I am doing right now. So the Prophet X would have to tick that box for me too - it would have to be a great analog synth in its own right to justify it, not jsut the sample stuff.
2. Portability
When gigging, as a keyboard player it is tough to carry a bunch of keyboards around to gigs. If the Prophet X could perform the synth stuff and replace some of my Prophet 08 / Prophet 6 patches, then I would only need to take potentially that one synth to a gig, or rehearsals, or recording sessions etc.
I hope that answers the questions as to why I would like to know about the synth only aspect of the Prophet X.
In regards the original question, with respect if I may replay that here: has anyone had any experience with just the synth (i.e. non-sample) engine, and have any insight into any similarities with other DSI synths?
Many thanks.
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Has anyone had a go with just the synth engine, or have any sound demos?
I've seen a number of requests along similar lines, and I guess I understand in abstract but it's still a little baffling.
...
So why not use whatever works with the sound you're creating? There aren't any points awarded for playing with one hand tied behind your back.
OK let me try to explain. There are 2 main reasons: Money, and Portability.
1. Money.
I can see on the forum that there are some people with incredible gear lists, which will surpass anything I will ever be able to afford - and fair play, I would too if I could! But the fact of the matter is, sadly, if I were to get a Prophet X i would certainly have to sacrifice perhaps my Prophet 08 (which I love and have had for years, even though I got it second hand at the time) and Prophet 6, which I also love! I also have a Nord Electro which I got second hand a few years back.
I had to save up for a long time before getting the Prophet 6. I had someone on another thread say to me, don't sell the Nord to fund a Prophet X (as, rightly, it would not directly replace it), save up 'a little while longer' and get the Prophet X.. it would not be a 'little while' that is for sure!! I hvae over indulged anyway when it comes to this stuff, I really should not have bought the Prophet 6 - don't regret it mind ;) - but it was a bit of a risk to me financially.
So in regards the Prophet X's synth capabilities, I will probably have to sacrifice at least one synth to get the Prophet X (if indeed I decided to). Now I love synths, and would want to be able to still perform some pure synth stuff (i.e. not using samples) to replace the synth stuff I am doing right now. So the Prophet X would have to tick that box for me too - it would have to be a great analog synth in its own right to justify it, not jsut the sample stuff.
2. Portability
When gigging, as a keyboard player it is tough to carry a bunch of keyboards around to gigs. If the Prophet X could perform the synth stuff and replace some of my Prophet 08 / Prophet 6 patches, then I would only need to take potentially that one synth to a gig, or rehearsals, or recording sessions etc.
I hope that answers the questions as to why I would like to know about the synth only aspect of the Prophet X.
In regards the original question, with respect if I may replay that here: has anyone had any experience with just the synth (i.e. non-sample) engine, and have any insight into any similarities with other DSI synths?
Many thanks.
Well the synth engine of the PX isnt analog. It's digital just like the P12 was...however it's a lot more limited in terms of the P12 in regards to waveforms. I think it's more or less just there for support and experimentation. It certainly isn't there to replace another synth or be run on it's own...I mean you can totally run it on it's own if you want but that comes down to personal preference.
That being said is you can also get some basic FM type patches from the synth engine too. Not the FM of the P12 but FM nevertheless.
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Prophet Y: 76 notes w/ polyphonic aftertouch, 32 voices, 1TB SSD. and a waveform display (use the main OLED), add oscillators or vactrols as needed.
Prophet Z: 88 note weighted etc. etc. 8). As far as the synth on this, these stereo filters real kick the osc. up to a different level, by the way this is the crunchiest sounding keyboard I have ever owned, and I mean that in the best of ways, love it
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Here's a quick recording (https://soundcloud.com/user-375958902/oscillator-showcase) to try to answer the OPs question and illustrate my own point.
From my Sound Cloud notes:
"Another DSI Sequential Prophet X demo. In this case, I've tweaked a factory preset to showcase just oscillators with adjustable cutoff, resonance, and drive. The first part lowers cutoff initially, adds resonance and continues to adjust cutoff, and finally brings up drive.
After a brief pause, a second play through starts in the same place with just oscillators, then fades in instruments with samples of synth ensembles to thicken things further. The same progression of cutoff, resonance, and drive is then explored.
No effects were used at any time. The apparent room ambiance in the second section is a recording of the room in which the sampled synth ensemble was played."
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Great demo to illustrate the question. Love it! Certainly capable of what my needs will be in this context. Saying goodbye to my Montage.
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Here's a quick recording (https://soundcloud.com/user-375958902/oscillator-showcase) to try to answer the OPs question and illustrate my own point.
From my Sound Cloud notes:
"Another DSI Sequential Prophet X demo. In this case, I've tweaked a factory preset to showcase just oscillators with adjustable cutoff, resonance, and drive. The first part lowers cutoff initially, adds resonance and continues to adjust cutoff, and finally brings up drive.
After a brief pause, a second play through starts in the same place with just oscillators, then fades in instruments with samples of synth ensembles to thicken things further. The same progression of cutoff, resonance, and drive is then explored.
No effects were used at any time. The apparent room ambiance in the second section is a recording of the room in which the sampled synth ensemble was played."
Thanks a lot for this.. sounds pretty great!
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Great demo to illustrate the question. Love it! Certainly capable of what my needs will be in this context. Saying goodbye to my Montage.
But dat FM engine tho...
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Prophet Z: an 88 note graded hammer action triple sensor ivory with another 16 or 32 voices.
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There are good reasons to include synth oscillators... First off, transposing a sample way low or high will give you loads of digital artifacts you do not get with synth oscillators... Also, the constant running of the synth oscillators makes the phase change on every keystroke, samples on the otherhand always start from the same samples, and when you begin interacting between two synth oscillators you'll se even more advantages like FM, Ringmod and sync... You can do several things with synth oscillators that you cannot with samples of even the same waveform... Also you will be saved from having to include sampled versions of the standard waveforms, as they will allways be available to you, independant of specific samples for this to be included... In top of this, the supersaw wave played from synth oscillators will sound different to a sampled version... In fact any periodic modulation in a sample will slow down or speed up as you transpose the sample... This is not the case with synth oscillators... In short, synth oscillators will sound much less static...
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Oh, I completely understand why the oscillators are desirable. I'm just surprised at the level of interest in sounds that only use oscillators.
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I don't either, to be honest. I'm also oscillator neutral but love the Sequential sound. I'm just after voices for piano, you need about 40, and 32 would probably even be okay with intelligent voice scheduling. If the Prophet X could play classical piano and do all the other things it already does with these lovely filters and effects, my goodness, that would be something else with a few more octaves.
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Love classical love traditional this X is what the masters would have, it invites creativity and inspiration, not saying I wouldn’t welcome a full blown 88 key version, but wtf this thing is a classic it can hold its own......
Whoa and jazz funk prog no damn problem, it’s a dream come true
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To be clear, I think the Prophet X is an absolute classic already ma si potrebbe essere una fantasia!
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Oh, I completely understand why the oscillators are desirable. I'm just surprised at the level of interest in sounds that only use oscillators.
I can understand the curiosity for guys who would want to carry just this to a gig instead of this and a Rev2 or something similar...
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Right, that's what Nord does with Stage and Electro. They're a wall of sound for what they weigh and very nice to play live.
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I can understand the curiosity for guys who would want to carry just this to a gig instead of this and a Rev2 or something similar...
Yes, I get that bit, but would you really go without a white noise generator rather than use samples of white noise? That seems unnecessarily obsessive.
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I see no reason not to just sample noise, it's noise after all.
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I can understand the curiosity for guys who would want to carry just this to a gig instead of this and a Rev2 or something similar...
Yes, I get that bit, but would you really go without a white noise generator rather than use samples of white noise? That seems unnecessarily obsessive.
True, you can sample what you need... but only if you don't have to sell the synth to finance the PX in the first place ;)
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True, you can sample what you need... but only if you don't have to sell the synth to finance the PX in the first place ;)
Better yet, you can take advantage of all the content that’s part of the factory sample set. White, brown, pink, black and various other flavors of noise are already there. As are ensemble oscillators, VS waveforms, and more. The samples are just as useful for creating (or recreating) synth sounds as they are for introducing acoustic elements.
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True, you can sample what you need... but only if you don't have to sell the synth to finance the PX in the first place ;)
Better yet, you can take advantage of all the content that’s part of the factory sample set. White, brown, pink, black and various other flavors of noise are already there. As are ensemble oscillators, VS waveforms, and more. The samples are just as useful for creating (or recreating) synth sounds as they are for introducing acoustic elements.
Now that I have to try... I just need to get my hands on one and try it out!
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Damn these pianos and stereo waves sound great CP like the bass is crunch live
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I posted this in GS but didn't get any replies:
I've been getting around the Prophet X' synth-side like gangbusters—much easier to get around than my Prophet 08 Rev2 for some reason. I was often scratching my head with my Rev2, but on the PX, that shape pot really dials in a ton of sounds. Again, really loving the synth engine on this thing. It's all-new, right? The digital oscillator-waveshaping and the new per-voice, analog filters? A mix of oscillators and filters unlike any previous DSI synth? (The Pro 2 and Prophet 12 both have digital oscillators, but no waveshaping.)
I had a Prophet 08 Rev2, but returned it. Now that I have an X, I missed its distinctive sound—so I re-bought it! I think the Curtis-filtered '08/R2 sounds worlds-apart from the X' synth engine, and re-bought it specifically because I think it sounds the most different from the X of all of DSI's synths. But to which other DSI synth does the X' synth-engine sound most similar? Or is it totally new-sounding, and unlike any other Prophet?
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But to which other DSI synth does the X' synth-engine sound most similar? Or is it totally new-sounding, and unlike any other Prophet?
Well, it sounds nothing like the Prophet 6 or the Polyevolver, which are the only other DSI synths I've had. I still have my 6, it's going nowhere!.
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Thanks for your reply. I really like the Rev2's sound, especially its much maligned Curtis chip. But I think the 16-voice synth-engine of the PX' digital oscillators, combined with its per-voice, SSM2044 filter re-issues (Sound Semiconductor's new SSI2144s) sound great! Overall, making the X' synth-engine sound much more "neutral" sounding (i.e., not as "dark") than the 08 Rev2's DCO/Curtis package don't you think?
As in the thread's title, I don't think the synth-side of the PX gets as much attention as it deserves. Especially since many have had to decide which of their DSI synths they should sell to afford to buy a PX (and, in my case, I just wanted to know from which DSI synth the PX sounds most different).
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Well, it sounds nothing like the Prophet 6 or the Polyevolver, which are the only other DSI synths I've had. I still have my 6, it's going nowhere!.
To quote myself from another thread: "Have you tried making a similar patch to one on your P6 with the synth engine for comparison? How do the SSM-based filters compare to each other? Are the PX oscillators noticeably digital in comparison?"
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Well, it sounds nothing like the Prophet 6 or the Polyevolver, which are the only other DSI synths I've had. I still have my 6, it's going nowhere!.
To quote myself from another thread: "Have you tried making a similar patch to one on your P6 with the synth engine for comparison? How do the SSM-based filters compare to each other? Are the PX oscillators noticeably digital in comparison?"
Not yet, but purely from experience I'd say the PX oscillators are noticeably digital compared to the VCO's of the Pro6. Perhaps not so noticeable for static patches as much as dynamic ones, but yes - very different sounding. Not to say either one is "better" sounding.
To me the SSM filter has a 'woody' characteristic which is quite unique. It's definitely very different to the Pro6, which, lets not forget, also has a HPF.
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Obviously different, but they're both SSM-based filters; the P6 being a discrete based 2040 & the PX an improved 2044.
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Obviously different, but they're both SSM-based filters; the P6 being a discrete based 2040 & the PX an improved 2044.
The 2144 isn't an improved 2040 design--it's actually a distinctly different topology. The datasheets for both parts are widely available online for anyone who wishes to investigate further.
Just FYI, carry on!
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The 2144 isn't an improved 2040 design--it's actually a distinctly different topology. The datasheets for both parts are widely available online for anyone who wishes to investigate further.
Just FYI, carry on!
Never said it's an improved 2040, said it's an improved 2044. Is the SSI2144 not an "updated and improved re-issue" of the SSM2044?