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SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Prophet 12 => Topic started by: Shambler on June 27, 2018, 11:10:23 AM

Title: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Shambler on June 27, 2018, 11:10:23 AM
Hi, not been able to find this info, I assume they do but do the Prophet 12 and Rev 2 have the same Keybed?
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: LoboLives on June 27, 2018, 12:08:32 PM
Hi, not been able to find this info, I assume they do but do the Prophet 12 and Rev 2 have the same Keybed?

Not 100% positive but from playing each side by side I'm going to say no. The REV2 feels better to me.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: ddp on June 27, 2018, 01:22:54 PM
There's a list of keybeds floating around that implies they're both Fatar TP/9S light weight, as is the Prophet 6.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: DavidDever on June 27, 2018, 03:34:36 PM
There's a list of keybeds floating around that implies they're both Fatar TP/9S light weight, as is the Prophet 6.

They aren't - the keybed for the Prophet-12 is manufactured in the Far East IIRC, but the design is similar to that of the TP/9S.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: jazzygb1 on June 28, 2018, 03:51:16 AM
As others have already said the keyboards ARE NOT the same.
The action on the P12 is lighter than the REV2 and its a lot easier to accidentally trigger aftertouch on the P12 as a result.
The REV2 definitely has the better keybed and it's the only thing I'd change about the the P12 tbh.
In every other way a totally brilliant synth.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Shambler on June 28, 2018, 05:05:44 AM
Excellent thanks all.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: SandyS1 on June 29, 2018, 11:31:30 AM
I had a replacement keyboard shipped to me recently, and the newer one feels much nicer than the older one, despite being the same manufacturer and having identical markings (definitely something Asian, not Fatar). I'm not sure whether it would be something you could order, since I imagine their supply of spares for support purposes are not infinite.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Peter K. on June 29, 2018, 11:39:01 PM
I had a P12 before which was amazing in every way except that the keybed felt clacky and loose.  Like a cheap midi controller.  I loved the synth but ended up selling the P12 for the module which I later sold to fund some purchases.  Today I found a P12 keyboard that was lightly used at a store and the action was much quieter acoustically and much more pleasant feeling.  We opened up a brand new P12 out of the box which had a higher serial # and it was the same clacky keybed I remembered.  Both the salesperson and I noticed an immediate difference.  I've taken the used model home and am loving the feel.  It is still not quite as nice as the Prophet 6/OB6/Rev 2, but it's much better than any other P12 I have ever played in the area, and I have tried several to make sure I wasn't going nuts. 

I also found that it was easier to control velocity on this particular P12 than on any other one I have tried.  Not only with the P12, but with the Tetra and Prophet '08 I owned before, which had the same keybed. 

The only way most P12s are let down IMO is by the action of the keys.  If you love the synth but key feel is important to you, I'd recommend getting the module.  It's much easier to get around on than it appears.  As for me, this loaner P12 might just have to stay, because I don't know if I'll ever find another one quite like it. 
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Frocktar on June 30, 2018, 12:41:45 AM
Yeah I must say I still find it amazing that they Ďseeminglyí cheaper out on the keybed for the P12.  Flagship synth and it has the cheapest feeling keyboard.

I donít find it absolutely terrible, but no way near as good as my Rev2.  Other than just feeling too lite, aftertouch is just too easy to trigger accidentally. Itís a bit of a case of Ďwhat on earth were they thinkingí for me.

I actually pay to replace it with the rev 2 keybed in a flash of this was an option.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Shambler on July 02, 2018, 04:15:54 AM
I've similar feelings about the P12keybed, can be very hard to control velocity because the action is ultra-light.

Now looking at getting either a Rev2 or a Prologue... but that's another discussion altogether :)
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Quatschmacher on July 02, 2018, 05:27:21 AM
Me too. Though I didnít really play around with the velocity and aftertouch curves to see if that improved things. The Rev 2 keyboard definitely feels nicer than the P12 and better than the Prologueís keybed too.

I've similar feelings about the P12keybed, can be very hard to control velocity because the action is ultra-light.

Now looking at getting either a Rev2 or a Prologue... but that's another discussion altogether :)
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Frocktar on July 02, 2018, 07:06:59 AM
Iíve played with the curves multiple times, each time hoping past me missed something, but the best they achieved was minizing the obvious plain as day oversight of not having provided a complimentary quality keybed action to their flagship synth.

I might sound overly critical, but I truly deeply love my P12, I just find it such a shame that the keybed isnít up to par with my Rev2 which was half the price.

Like I said earlier Iíd pay for a keybed upgrade, and i wouldnít even be bitter about it, I just want it to feel as good as the rev 2.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: jazzygb1 on July 03, 2018, 05:07:38 AM
It might be something that Dave Smith could offer.
I'm assuming they'll have replacement parts for the REV2, so it shouldn't be beyond the scope of possibility that you could replace the keybed of the P12 with one from a REV2 for a fee.
Might be worth an email do DSIs support to see if it's possible. :)
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Frocktar on July 03, 2018, 05:44:33 AM
Excellent idea actually !
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Robot Heart on July 03, 2018, 04:47:14 PM
Unfortunately, they're not interchangeable. We looked into it when we were designing the Rev2, and the Rev2 keybed is slightly larger than the P12 keybed so it won't fit in the metal enclosure. The connectors are also different, but that's a more solvable problem. At any rate, it can't be done without hacking up your metal enclosure.

One thing you could experiment with though, is different spring tensions for the keys. We don't have a line on them or anything but I remember seeing that you could change the behavior and feel of the keybed by using lighter or heavier springs.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Shambler on July 04, 2018, 03:36:47 AM
I'm going down to London on the weekend and hope to demo a Rev2 to see for myself what the key-bed is like.

I find the Prophet 12's key-bed is 'OK' but not something I would want to use as my main keyboard.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Quatschmacher on July 04, 2018, 05:43:40 AM
Thanks, Robot Heart, thatís useful to know. A shame itís not possible but at least now we know not to go in hoping in vain.

Unfortunately, they're not interchangeable. We looked into it when we were designing the Rev2, and the Rev2 keybed is slightly larger than the P12 keybed so it won't fit in the metal enclosure. The connectors are also different, but that's a more solvable problem. At any rate, it can't be done without hacking up your metal enclosure.

One thing you could experiment with though, is different spring tensions for the keys. We don't have a line on them or anything but I remember seeing that you could change the behavior and feel of the keybed by using lighter or heavier springs.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Frocktar on July 04, 2018, 06:45:39 AM
Nutz, was quite excited for a minute there, Cheers for the info though.

Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Shambler on July 08, 2018, 11:21:19 AM
Back from London and I tried out a Rev2 at wunjoguitars in their synth basement on Tottenham Court Road.

The Rev2 has a great key bed, reminiscent of the PC361 from Kurzweil which IMO has the best synth action key bed of any synth.

The sound was also amazing, thicker than the Prophet12, they will be a great combination and I'll be placing an order this week.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: jeebustrain on July 11, 2018, 07:53:20 AM
I've had my P12 for almost 4 years and the keybed is the only thing that I would change on it. That being said, I have to wonder if the newer ones have an upgraded bed because earlier this year I saw one at Synth City during a trip to Chicago and the keybed felt a LOT better... Way more solid, almost like some Fatar beds I've played. The keys wiggled a lot less and velocity response seemed better (although I didn't do much extensive testing).
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: extempo on July 11, 2018, 10:41:44 AM
There has only ever been one model of keybed used in the Prophet 12. It's the same one that was used in the Prophet 08.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Quai34 on August 02, 2018, 06:02:03 PM
Ok that makes sense now because I've never had issues with the Keybed of my P08 and thought that the P12 was part to it....Just compare it to the NL2X Keybed and you will find that your P12 Keybed is awesome....I love my NL2X but the DSI Keybeds, for what I know as I have only the P08 abd the P12 are high end compared to it....
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: ddp on August 02, 2018, 06:55:32 PM
The N2LX doesn't even have aftertouch, does it?  I kept my Lead 3 but ended up getting rid of a bunch of Nord stuff, almost universally because of their choice of keybeds.  DSI and Moog both have good keybeds.  I also like the Arturia MatrixBrute.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: camarao on February 19, 2019, 01:33:37 AM
My P12 keyboard is just terrible.
Completely impossible to control velocity. Tried all Curves and they all feel the same. Love the P12 synth but the keyboard is unusable.

Is there a way to replace it for a better one or at least improve it?
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Razmo on May 03, 2019, 05:49:22 AM
A short question (for Sequential);

Why were the P12 keyboard discontinued, and not the module? ... I've been having this feeling it's because you switched to the FATAR keybeds, and did not want to keep ordering batches of the old chinese keybeds just for this?

Not that it matters much, I'm just curious as to why only the module version is still in production.... mostly because I'm still thinking about getting a P12 module again at some point, but are a bit worried about how long I should wait before getting one, if it's on the verge of being discontinued.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: Frocktar on May 04, 2019, 07:33:10 AM
I still find it a real bummer that this amazing synth has such a crappy keybed.  Compared to my Rev 2 itís just not in the same league.

If youíre gonna charge the kind of coin that I paid for my P12 it should have a matching quality keybed.

Despite that though...I still love it deeply, its just that itís hard to not constantly go ĎDAMNí every time I play the Rev 2. Missed opportunity and honestly a cop out considering itís price point.
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: jdt9517 on June 01, 2019, 08:17:09 PM
I use the P-12M with a Yamaha Montage 88 as the controller.  Excellent combination.  There are a lot of Yamaha keyboards out there with a great key bed (one of Yamaha's biggest strengths) that could be used as an upscale controller.  If there is some reason that I need both ribbons, I use the Pro 2. 

It's unfortunate that the P-12 has such a flaky key bed.  I went for the module originally because of both price (got a ridiculously low price on it on Black Friday) and lack of room.  I am really glad I went with the module now. 
Title: Re: Prophet 12 / Rev 2 Keybed
Post by: jwbrown on June 20, 2019, 09:43:42 PM
I own both.  They are different but i like them both.