The Official Sequential/Oberheim Forum
SEQUENTIAL/DSI => Prophet => Sequential Prophet X => Topic started by: Lady Gaia on June 20, 2018, 07:57:04 AM
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Early impressions from my first couple of hours, written last night:
Beautifully constructed, this is a build that lives up to expectations set by the price point. The semi-weighted action feels good (1), the ashen stained end caps match the dark metallic aesthetic better than any natural stain possibly could, and in my limited time so far all of the controls have a nice solid feel to them. It is a knobby synthesizer at heart with obvious DSI heritage.
A quick tour is really all I’ve had time for, but there are both standout moments and aspects that I’m going to have to explore deeper before I’m entirely sure what to think. There’s also a lot I need to look at more deeply, including the effects. Essentially all I’ve done is dial in the plate reverb with some percussion and it’s wonderfully stunning. I could have played that kit for hours.
The stereo filters are obviously a centerpiece of the tools at a sound designer’s disposal and they are glorious. Warm and buttery, with resonance that can be subtle or aggressive. I haven’t played with drive much just yet, so that’s also on my list to explore further. In the time I’ve had this evening I have only sped through the first of four banks of presets. There’s a ton here, and so far it’s really wide ranging with more of a tendency toward exuberance than bread and butter.
I should also point out the part I’m least blown away by, which is plain, exposed sample playback. First and foremost, the Prophet X is not going to replace anyone’s modern sampler. This should be obvious from reading the manual, but it’s still something of a shock in practice, and anyone hoping otherwise should adjust their expectations. The samples appear to be well recorded and plentiful, but the lack of any per-sample editing or synthesis parameters means you’re going to use them in a very particular fashion. You can’t tweak a single drum differently than the rest of a drum kit: one pan position/filter/tuning/etc configuration applies to the entire kit. You can’t freely mix and match samples from different keymaps. There’s no overt provision for switching between among keymaps based on velocity, though it’s certainly possible to cross fade between two if desired.
No, it’s not really a sampler. It’s a synthesizer whose oscillators can draw from raw sample material. With that in mind I’m not entirely convinced just yet that the samples offered are the most useful set imaginable. They’re a little specific and literal, drawn as they are from a primarily acoustic library. Still, there’s quite a range on offer and there are definitely a number of unusual ambiances and other textures to explore in addition to the familiar and more exotic acoustic fare.
So it has to come down to doing more than just mixing samples and calling it a day. Finding out just how far you can go with the tools here will be interesting. Those are the terms on which I plan to address the Prophet X and I’m going to need time to dig in that I won’t have much of before the weekend. There are a number of patches I’ve come across that have only oscillators sounding, and they’re still marvelously complex and expressive. Just familiar. So, I’m expecting the real magic is in letting samples and oscillators interact, and that’s where I’m going to be digging deeper.
I wish I could spend more time tonight but, alas, meetings tomorrow morning mandate that I get a reasonable night’s sleep.
(1) I am going to have to explore the velocity curve options because the factory setting appears to have a pretty narrow usable range. It’s easy to produce extremely low and high velocities but the middle of the range takes a unfamiliar touch.
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This ain’t your daddy’s rompler :) If you need string piano’s plenty of choices, if you need Prophet string piano’s come on down. ;) To me, and mind you everyone’s different, this is an instrument for scoring and creating. It’s almost like the poly Pro2 I’ve always wished for.... but with a shit load more waves, and stereo and 5 octaves 8)
One more quick observation, the surprise to me was the percussion drums etc etc fantasy thru these filters and mods, I didn’t think I would care about that but yeah 👍.
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This ain’t your daddy’s rompler :) If you need string piano’s plenty of choices, if you need Prophet string piano’s come on down. ;) To me, and mind you everyone’s different, this is an instrument for scoring and creating. It’s almost like the poly Pro2 I’ve always wished for.... but with a shit load more waves, and stereo and 5 octaves 8)
One more quick observation, the surprise to me was the percussion drums etc etc fantasy thru these filters and mods, I didn’t think I would care about that but yeah 👍.
I think just from listening to demos and reading the manual....this synth is actually going to be a lot more beneficial to me as a composer than my Kurzweil, Roland, Kronos whatever because of it's real time accessibility and using subtractive synthesis as a method to make the samples more realistic.
For some reason a lot of companies use saxophone samples, solo violin, solo trumpet, bass samples, flute samples as polyphonic....but these are monophonic instruments. BAM hit that Unison button and suddenly the sound becomes more realistic. Especially if you add a bit of frequency LFO wobble with aftertouch...suddenly it's more expressive and I didn't have to dig deep through menus to program it....it's just all there.
String instrumens generally don't have frets...so there's no reason not to add portamento to those violins, string sections, and even fretless basses. Suddenly you have a realistic sweeping string sound and maybe add an LFO wobble again with aftertouch and suddenly you also have some vibrato with pressure...which you would naturally have on sustained notes on a string instrument.
Of course also adding Portamento to Choir sounds causes them to sound a bit more flowing rather than staccatoed.
The Samples are static in ways for a reason...because it allows you to dial in those articulations...be they a sax growl with an audio range modulation, vibrato on strings with aftertouch and an LFO or a slide on a fretless bass with a Glide/Portamento switch....all without having to spend minutes or even hours menu diving and programming.
This will save me minutes if not hours programing and I'm going to try and write some classical pieces on this instrument first just to see how realistic I can make it. I think the results might be pleasently surprising.
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I don’t usually like guitars on keys, but these are useful like very acoustic, easy to smooth them in a sine or mod, best I’ve ever heard otb. Don’t worry not dumping my shredder 😏. Relax peeps I play the frets, the 12string isn’t going anywhere but got a quick solution 😂 just a innocent 😇 observation
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I don’t usually like guitars on keys, but these are useful like very acoustic, easy to smooth them in a sine or mod, best I’ve ever heard otb. Don’t worry not dumping my shredder 😏. Relax peeps I play the frets, the 12string isn’t going anywhere but got a quick solution 😂 just a innocent 😇 observation
Yeah I'm a guitar player also and often I'm sort of debating if I should ever use a guitar sample on a synth...but I think sometimes they have their own quality to them....especially in the overall context of a song mix and also if you are using the sequencer for a 12 string acoustic or something while you play lead guitar on your actual guitar.
Of course there is also the option of a midi guitar....
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U2 P85 it’s a slpit set up to mix with waves, I can’t quit playing 😂, and it’s programmed with one instrument ,
Bring in what you want, impressively done. ‘Memo to self” SPLITS!
Alright these string basses are great, this is quickly becoming my favorite, so damn versatile
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OP: thanks for the great writeup.
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adjust the oscillators sine wave pitch like you would use draw bars on a Hammond throw in some organ waves for great stereo b3 and I’m an organ snob
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Mine arrived today...can’t wait to do some videos
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Mine arrived today...can’t wait to do some videos
Yeah please please yes! :) 8). I have started saving.......... all budgets are frozen, no more instruments except for the Cirklon later this year beginning next.
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U2 P85 is awesome, as is U2 91. How fun is it, to get lost in these stereo landscapes?
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Any owners care to comment if there are mellotron samples in the instruments library?
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Of course there is also the option of a midi guitar....
Been there, tried that... save your time, effort, and money — unless you have very low of expectations on reliable triggering and playability.
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Unless your name is Pat Metheny ;D
First time I saw Pat Metheny Group in concert I realized that sounds I atributed to Lyle Mays were actually synths driven by Pat’s midified guitar.
Of course there is also the option of a midi guitar....
Been there, tried that... save your time, effort, and money — unless you have very low of expectations on reliable triggering and playability.
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Of course there is also the option of a midi guitar....
Been there, tried that... save your time, effort, and money — unless you have very low of expectations on reliable triggering and playability.
I was actually quite impressed with Godin’s midi equipped guitar. If it’s good enough for John McLaughlin....
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And to stay on topic I did get a chance to noodle a bit on a Prophet X at Sweetwater’s GearFest. I was much more impressed with the X than the Waldorf Quantum in the same tent. Though to be fair the listening environment there wasn’t ideal.
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And to stay on topic I did get a chance to noodle a bit on a Prophet X at Sweetwater’s GearFest. I was much more impressed with the X than the Waldorf Quantum in the same tent. Though to be fair the listening environment there wasn’t ideal.
On another forum one early PX owner said that the PX is a bit more user friendly and inviting to create sounds with the samples. It just works from the get go. The Quantum feels like it takes a lot of time and energy to create a patch with quite a bit of menu diving, modes, screens etc.
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The PX user interface was very familar coming from a Rev2 and a recently acquired open box P12. So it had that advantage over the Quantum. I was very excited about the Quantum when it was first announced. I owned a rack mount Q and it had such a unique sound but being a rack the user interface sucked. I had high hopes for the Quantum with all its knobs and touch screen.
I may have to revisit the Quantum when I have more time and a quieter environment. Of course my real issue is space for another large set of keys. I’m really hoping for a desktop PX. But then again I saw something that may make me rearrange both my home studio and budget.
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Got mine today! Can't wait to start adding to the clangorous happiness around here.
Gotta finish work before I can open it up... anyone have suggestions for a first patch to play?
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F1 P1 is a fine place to start. DSI knew what they were doing there, and there’s a ton of variety packed back-to-back in factory programs. It makes for a great initial tour but it’s hell finding anything after the fact because there’s no apparent organization.
Don’t forget to try mod wheel and sliders on every program. There’s a lot of hidden goodness baked into many of them, and sometimes even a simple sustain yields a surprise or two.
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And sequencer bits :)
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F1 P1 is a fine place to start. DSI knew what they were doing there, and there’s a ton of variety packed back-to-back in factory programs. It makes for a great initial tour but it’s hell finding anything after the fact because there’s no apparent organization.
Don’t forget to try mod wheel and sliders on every program. There’s a lot of hidden goodness baked into many of them, and sometimes even a simple sustain yields a surprise or two.
I had already started, but yes, I decided to do them in Sequential order... pun?
About 2 hours later, I’m not even half way through the first bank.
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i have a moog expression pedal, nord sustain, and a nektar foot switch (easier than pressing ‘run’). i like to think of sustain as dave’s ‘weird shit’ pedal, but maybe that’s just me. :-)
whoever designed the voice scheduling algorithm deserves praise.
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whoever designed the voice scheduling algorithm deserves praise.
Indeed! If you're going to occasionally be reduced as low as four voice polyphony you really need a good stealing algorithm and graceful transitions. I've also been favorably impressed.
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i have a moog expression pedal, nord sustain, and a nektar foot switch (easier than pressing ‘run’). i like to think of sustain as dave’s ‘weird shit’ pedal, but maybe that’s just me. :-)
whoever designed the voice scheduling algorithm deserves praise.
Finally got through the first bank of presets, then programmed my own weird string machine from scratch (a combination of real strings and saws)... got a really nice sound really quickly -- having used DSI synths for years really helped. I like the familiarity.
As for the first present bank... I am still digesting... This is a deep machine. Somewhat akin to my Kurzweil K2000 from years ago. Different, better, more immediate, but similar... Man, this is gonna be one helluva ride.
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u3 95 metal fatigue w/ expression and sustain, play it now!
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Alright, let’s not compare this to a rompler, I have 3. Romplers become static, and tiresome, and quite honestly sub synths do as well. Only time will tell. Sounds great with the OB6 trust me. 8)
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I don’t think anyone who understands the Prophet X would write it off as a ROMpler, but then I’d say the same thing about Kurzweil’s VAST gear. I am very happy to have my X paired with a Forte.
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I don’t think anyone who understands the Prophet X would write it off as a ROMpler, but then I’d say the same thing about Kurzweil’s VAST gear. I am very happy to have my X paired with a Forte.
I’ll second that. My first synth ever was a K2000. Imagine my confusion when i looked at a Little Phatty. :-\
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I don’t think anyone who understands the Prophet X would write it off as a ROMpler, but then I’d say the same thing about Kurzweil’s VAST gear. I am very happy to have my X paired with a Forte.
It has too many features to be a ROMpler for sure... the sample engine can do some granular stuff that not many other hardware synths are capable of, be it samplers or ROMplers... the two additional synth oscillators put's it right out of the "sampler/ROMpler" category... it will feel a bit like a ROMpler though, if people only use the sample oscillators, and as long as the user sample feature is not implemented... but still... it sports so many things in one machine that it would be hard to describe it as anything singular... I'd rather call it an analog/digital hybrid modern type of D50/V-Synth... but without really being that either. To me it's an instrument that begs to be used for sound design, not just a sample playback synthesizer... if that is all you do with it, you'd be wasting it's full potential in my opinion... this is also why I do not understand why some of you would rather have 4 sample oscillators, and throw away those two synth oscillators that actually makes this machine unique in it's combined form. That is what sets it apart from the rest, save maybe the Quantum.
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I'm glad to have the mix of oscillators and sample playback as well, but that's not the most unique aspect of the instrument for me. My Forte has DSP-generated oscillators as well, and they're capable of some nice shape morphing tricks. The huge differences the Prophet X brings are audio rate modulation, analog filters, and the immediacy of the user interface.
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Well, I’m finally feeling up to going to the studio today to break the PX in. I might design some patches tonight. Can’t wait.
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These raw waves and oscillators are fluid, the ultimate customizable combination, brilliant. No screenshots your ears
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Curious, is there a way to add Glide to the Samples? It seems it only affects the oscillators.
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Curious, is there a way to add Glide to the Samples? It seems it only affects the oscillators.
“On sampled instruments, glide only works when Sample Stretch is enabled.” — page 19 of the Manual.
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Curious, is there a way to add Glide to the Samples? It seems it only affects the oscillators.
“On sampled instruments, glide only works when Sample Stretch is enabled.” — page 19 of the Manual.
Thanks!
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So I skimmed through the Presets and man let me tell you, those online demos do this synth no justice. The Pianos alone are breathtaking as well as the Hammond and Rhodes patches.
I started to design some of my first patches on this baby and I got to say I'm blown away with the quality of the samples. The Pianos are easily some of the most realistic I've heard and the string samples are phenominal. I'll post a few examples in the coming week. Did a nice Steinway morphing into a VS Piano, a double bass/Rhodes/Hammond Jazz split, a "Polymorphia" inspired string and horn cluster, and of course I had to do Tubular Bells as a sequence. ;)
You can also see where the sample side requires some new sounds (I was shocked...I might have missed them...but no Cathedral Pipe Organ? French Horns? I might have skipped past them but I don't recal seeing them) and I would love some more brass and string effects from 8Dio's CAGE and CASE Libraries. The "TWILIGHT ZONE" patch is exactly the type of brass sound I've been looking for in a synth FOREVER! I grew up on those 1950's creature feature films and I always loved those "Flutter Tongue Rips" and "Cluster Stabs" that you would hear when the monster would appear.
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Welcome. It's nice in here!
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Heading to the studio tomorrow to do some programing and recording this weekend. Expects lots of Soundcloud and YouTube tracks by the end of the weekend :)
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Looking forward to it! I haven’t had as much time as I’d like this week. Between taking care of my wife following minor surgery and the arrival of another studio distraction last weekend, I have a backlog of ideas to explore.
What I really need is focused time trying to bring all the pieces together into something coherent rather than trying to showcase the Prophet X on its own.
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And to stay on topic I did get a chance to noodle a bit on a Prophet X at Sweetwater’s GearFest. I was much more impressed with the X than the Waldorf Quantum in the same tent. Though to be fair the listening environment there wasn’t ideal.
I played a quantum at Namm. While I love Waldorf's software, that synth build doesn't really hold a candle to the physical experience I've had from my Prophet 12. The knobs where plasticy and not that "solid" feeling. So this makes sense.
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Picked up my X on Wednesday and I've been going through the presets. First impressions are that the synth side sounds great, and is going to be extremely usable. Even though it's "digital", it has enough edge to it. The sample soundset has some outstanding variations and weirdness but I'm really looking forward to the soon to be released new soundsets from 8DIO, especially synths and orchestral sounds. Maybe some Adagio strings and Requiem choirs.
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I own the Prophet X for a week now and I’m very impressed by the UI, the build quality and most important, the sound! I won’t write a review here, because I mostly agree with the findings of Lady Gaia. I do want to mention that I was a bit underwhelmed by the presets. Although they give a good impression about the sonic territories of this beast, I simply don’t like the sounds of the presets or they won’t fit into my music. But when making my own sounds I simply fell in love.
Yes, it is very expensive! Of course, it is possible to get the same sound quality (or maybe better) with software synths/samplers like Kontakt and Omnisphere. But, how beautiful these engines sound, it never feels like a real instrument. The Prophet does! Maybe it is possible with the latest incarnation of Omnisphere, where they build in the hardware integration, but personally, I hate computers when making music. I’m a software engineer and after spending a whole day behind my screen it is quite liberating to make music with a hardware synth.
I already own the Prophet 12 Desktop, so the PX does feel very familiar. The oscillators sound very much the same, but the filters make them sound very different. I love the new filter of the PX, but I also do like the Curtis filter, it is just a different flavor. Nevertheless, the sweet spot of the PX is much bigger then the P12. It took me some time to find the strengths of the P12, which is not the case with the PX.
When comparing the two synths there are some things I want to share…
What I like about the PX probably the most is the stereo signal path. Even when only using the oscillators, the fact you can use them in stereo gives so much more dept and space into the sound. No fake stereo with the help of effects will give the same results. For me, the weakness of the P12 is mostly the mono signal path.
Of course, I like to have the sample instruments which gives so much extra depth to the sounds. I tend to use the sample instruments as extra synth oscillators and not to mimic the real thing. The VS samples are incredible useful in that respect. For workstation sounds I use the Kurzweil Forte.
What I like about the P12 is the fact you have more control about the velocity. With the PX it is just on/off, although with the expense of a modulation slot you can do the same. I prefer the pot button, instead of a switch. So yes, I lose some modulation slots when I do want to control the velocity amounts. The P12 has dedicated FM and AM (soft?) buttons, so again, no loss of modulation slots. I also like the HP filter (with resonance), I really miss it on the PX. To have it available in the effects section is simply not the same.
The UI has some quirkiness, funny enough, the P12 Desktop is much clearer in that respect.
I won’t mention them here but will report them to DSI support directly.
To conclude... I’m very happy with this instrument. It is very inspiring and gives a lot of joy!
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I bet it's ( will be ) more solid than a quantum.
But I wished it was more Quantum's synth samples oriented, out of the box.
Is it possible to adopt the baby from a Px and a quantum ?
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Just for starters, this is the ultimate clav, it is made for that grinding funk sound, still trying to nail some hard rhoades and spike organ, but man just keep playing these clavs? They sound fantastic